Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 .. 24 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Nexus Day
Lustrevik Trade and Travel Bureau
502
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 01:00:00 -
[1] - Quote
Because it has no relationship to how things really work. You can always make the most money in areas where there is the most stability. And when you think about it that makes sense. here is what doesn't.
The price of stability is a higher "price of admission". I could mine gold in the Congo or in Alaska. In the Congo there are less barriers to entry and lower overall costs, but significantly more risk. It is the first part that is missing in EvE hi sec, barriers to entry and higher overall costs.
Nothing is free in a "civilized" nation or space. Where are the mining permits and the subsequent outlaws that mine without a permit? Where are the taxes, beyond corporate taxes, for living in protected space? Docking permits, trade license, etc.
Beyond making the hi sec experience realistic it could add flavor to the game. Loose practices in some factions including corrupt officials or tight laws down to a specific permit required for each type of ore. All available at a local space station.
Risk versus reward is bozo. Lo sec is about freedom, hi sec is about sacrificing those freedoms for protection. This thread has so much content it may be 'Thread of the Year' and it is only January.
|
Jonah Gravenstein
Khalkotauroi Defence Labs
7661
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 01:12:00 -
[2] - Quote
Mining permits are already a thing, and have been for a while now, how did you miss the threadnaughts and whinefests about the New Order?
It's not up to CCP to increase the cost of entry, it's down to us, the players to put such things in place. It's already been done in nullsec, maybe it's time it came to highsec.
Eve in a nutshell, it's you vs the universe, and every machiavellian space bastard in it. MY CSM ballot is as follows, Psychotic Monk, Mangala Solaris, Malconis, Mynnna, Apricot Baby, Ali Aras, Steve Ronuken. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7254
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 01:12:00 -
[3] - Quote
imagine a space-themed amusement park and you have several rides
that's what eve is basically going towards ~*a proud belligerent undesirable*~ TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. Malcanis for CSM 8 |
Tetsuo Tsukaya
Pixel Navigators Hostile Work Environment.
0
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 01:16:00 -
[4] - Quote
Nexus Day wrote:Because it has no relationship to how things really work. You can always make the most money in areas where there is the most stability. And when you think about it that makes sense. here is what doesn't.
The price of stability is a higher "price of admission". I could mine gold in the Congo or in Alaska. In the Congo there are less barriers to entry and lower overall costs, but significantly more risk. It is the first part that is missing in EvE hi sec, barriers to entry and higher overall costs.
Nothing is free in a "civilized" nation or space. Where are the mining permits and the subsequent outlaws that mine without a permit? Where are the taxes, beyond corporate taxes, for living in protected space? Docking permits, trade license, etc.
Beyond making the hi sec experience realistic it could add flavor to the game. Loose practices in some factions including corrupt officials or tight laws down to a specific permit required for each type of ore. All available at a local space station.
Risk versus reward is bozo. Lo sec is about freedom, hi sec is about sacrificing those freedoms for protection.
My Internet space pew pew game shouldn't be realistic, it should be the most fun. Who gives a **** what makes the most sense or has the closest analog to real life, the idea is fun gameplay |
Alara IonStorm
4836
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 01:18:00 -
[5] - Quote
With all that stability how do massive pirate fleets just slip in by the tens of thousands.
You would think stability would limit them to Frigates and Cruisers in small fleets. |
Beekeeper Bob
Beekeepers Anonymous
573
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 01:19:00 -
[6] - Quote
Posting in the 10 millionth "nerf highsec" thread.
And as far as risk/reward goes, it's much safer in 0.0....So your premise fell apart when you didn't address that.
The single biggest danger to EVE is the proliferation of ALTS! Kill an alt today!
Petition for a Minimum bounty of 10 mil. Prevent useless bounties!
|
Katrina Oniseki
Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
1397
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 01:20:00 -
[7] - Quote
I enjoy Highsec as well as nullsec. I'm also a dirty annoying roleplayer.
I like the idea of a higher cost of living in highsec. I don't think it should be anything significant... maybe 100-1000 ISK per station docking or stargate jumping request depending on the system's security status, increasing even more if you have a lower security status. That may not seem like much, but for the active player it would quickly add up, without being an undue burden for those not doing much.
Mining permits are also a great idea, but I'm unsure how you imagine them working mechanically. Shosho Katrina Oniseki ~ (RDC) Diplomat ~ [I-RED] Sub-Director of Public Relations |
Alara IonStorm
4836
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 01:23:00 -
[8] - Quote
Beekeeper Bob wrote:And as far as risk/reward goes, it's much safer in 0.0....So your premise fell apart when you didn't address that. Players work to make it stable. They build that Empire and make it safe. They are the Concord.
Hi-Sec could always turn off Concord and have the safety of Null brought right to them. It would be easier right Bob. |
Beekeeper Bob
Beekeepers Anonymous
573
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 01:31:00 -
[9] - Quote
Alara IonStorm wrote:Beekeeper Bob wrote:And as far as risk/reward goes, it's much safer in 0.0....So your premise fell apart when you didn't address that. Players work to make it stable. They build that Empire and make it safe. They are the Concord. Hi-Sec could always turn off Concord and have the safety of Null brought right to them. It would be easier right Bob.
I'm sure this makes sense to you....
So you expect new players, who have no idea how the game really works, to organize and protect themselves against players with much greater SP, much deeper pockets, and greater numbers and organization?
Did you even stop to consider anything, other than your own need to grief noobs?
The single biggest danger to EVE is the proliferation of ALTS! Kill an alt today!
Petition for a Minimum bounty of 10 mil. Prevent useless bounties!
|
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
34
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 01:37:00 -
[10] - Quote
The risk is scripted here.
I just posted about having an interceptor like mining vessel (good for gas/moon/ore mining, with 100% yield and like a 5000m3 for any mat or refine) that can be used for ninja mining. The concept is good because it gets miners into the action (real miners not the AFK "I need to make some isk for my main to pewpewpew" types) with true risk vs rewards.
It's not done.
Why?
Because the script is: get territory it's all yours.
Look what it caused as a result. Nullbears don't have to fear invaders but other massive blobs. It turned the game into EQ with a few raid guilds trying to dictate the economy.
So been there, done that, got the Quafe T-Shirt.
The game needs a shakeup, where there's no comfort zones from any party. We need tiers of the hunted being the hunted. We need resources that's available to anyone willing to take the risks, too. "In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." ~George Orwell
|
|
Alara IonStorm
4836
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 01:38:00 -
[11] - Quote
Beekeeper Bob wrote:Alara IonStorm wrote:Beekeeper Bob wrote:And as far as risk/reward goes, it's much safer in 0.0....So your premise fell apart when you didn't address that. Players work to make it stable. They build that Empire and make it safe. They are the Concord.Hi-Sec could always turn off Concord and have the safety of Null brought right to them. It would be easier right Bob. I'm sure this makes sense to you.... So you expect new players, who have no idea how the game really works, to organize and protect themselves against players with much greater SP, much deeper pockets, and greater numbers and organization? Did you even stop to consider anything, other than your own need to grief noobs? Lame aversion going after the sarcasm and not the meat little bee.
Players work to make Null stable. They build that Empire and make it safe. They are the Concord. That is why they deserve much better rewards.
|
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
3956
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 01:42:00 -
[12] - Quote
Nexus Day wrote:Because it has no relationship to how things really work. You can always make the most money in areas where there is the most stability. And when you think about it that makes sense. here is what doesn't.
Posting in a Stealth Nerf High Sec Thread
Nexus Day wrote:The price of stability is a higher "price of admission". I could mine gold in the Congo or in Alaska. In the Congo there are less barriers to entry and lower overall costs, but significantly more risk. It is the first part that is missing in EvE hi sec, barriers to entry and higher overall costs.
Posting in a Stealth High Sec is Too Safe Thread
Nexus Day wrote:Nothing is free in a "civilized" nation or space. Where are the mining permits and the subsequent outlaws that mine without a permit? Where are the taxes, beyond corporate taxes, for living in protected space? Docking permits, trade license, etc.
Posting in a Stealth Support the New Order Thread
Nexus Day wrote:Beyond making the hi sec experience realistic it could add flavor to the game. Loose practices in some factions including corrupt officials or tight laws down to a specific permit required for each type of ore. All available at a local space station.
Posting in Yet Another Stealth Support the New Order Thread
Nexus Day wrote:Risk versus reward is bozo. Lo sec is about freedom, hi sec is about sacrificing those freedoms for protection.
Posting in a Stealth Kick All Carebears Into Low Thread
There is much to be said in favour of modern journalism. By giving us the opinions of the uneducated, it keeps us in touch with the ignorance of the community.-á-á-á-á - Oscar Wilde |
Arronicus
Shadows of Vorlon The Marmite Collective
494
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 01:51:00 -
[13] - Quote
Bro, you missed April Fools by an hour with this thread.
Unless of course you knew it wasn't april 1st anymore, in which case, 'posting in a troll thread'. Because there isn't a chance in hell you're serious. |
Alara IonStorm
4836
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 01:53:00 -
[14] - Quote
Arronicus wrote:Bro, you missed April Fools by an hour with this thread.
Unless of course you knew it wasn't april 1st anymore, in which case, 'posting in a troll thread'. Because there isn't a chance in hell you're serious. Troll accusations aside Time Zones are a thing, they exist. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Khalkotauroi Defence Labs
7661
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 01:53:00 -
[15] - Quote
Beekeeper Bob wrote:Alara IonStorm wrote:Beekeeper Bob wrote:And as far as risk/reward goes, it's much safer in 0.0....So your premise fell apart when you didn't address that. Players work to make it stable. They build that Empire and make it safe. They are the Concord. Hi-Sec could always turn off Concord and have the safety of Null brought right to them. It would be easier right Bob. I'm sure this makes sense to you.... So you expect new players, who have no idea how the game really works, to organize and protect themselves against players with much greater SP, much deeper pockets, and greater numbers and organization? Did you even stop to consider anything, other than your own need to grief noobs?
It's not about griefing noobs, and it never was. It's about empowering players to improve both themselves and the game in general. I can think of plenty of so called "long term" players in highsec who also have absolutely no idea about how the game really works.
NPC corps are the major cause of ignorance about game mechanics, they are, in the main, populated by newbies who don't know any better and people who, having playing for substantial time periods, should know better, but don't. If you want absolute safety, then you should pay for it, and NPC corps are as near to absolute safety as you can get in Eve.
I'm all for NPC corps as an idea, but they should not be the all encompassing shelter that they are at the moment. They should be training corporations with a time limited membership, I'd gladly support any initiative to encourage people to leave them after playing for 6 months, for example <6 months 10% tax >6 months 30% tax (including market sales). I'd also support any initiative or incentive that sees more experienced players pass on their knowledge as mentors or guest instructors to NPC corps.
Eve in a nutshell, it's you vs the universe, and every machiavellian space bastard in it. MY CSM ballot is as follows, Psychotic Monk, Mangala Solaris, Malconis, Mynnna, Apricot Baby, Ali Aras, Steve Ronuken. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
4495
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 01:57:00 -
[16] - Quote
Beekeeper Bob wrote:Alara IonStorm wrote:Beekeeper Bob wrote:And as far as risk/reward goes, it's much safer in 0.0....So your premise fell apart when you didn't address that. Players work to make it stable. They build that Empire and make it safe. They are the Concord. Hi-Sec could always turn off Concord and have the safety of Null brought right to them. It would be easier right Bob. I'm sure this makes sense to you.... So you expect new players, who have no idea how the game really works, to organize and protect themselves against players with much greater SP, much deeper pockets, and greater numbers and organization? Did you even stop to consider anything, other than your own need to grief noobs? Nothing you just said made any sense. Malcanis for CSM 8 Module activation timers are buggy - CCP please fix |
Jonah Gravenstein
Khalkotauroi Defence Labs
7663
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 01:59:00 -
[17] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote: Nothing you just said made any sense.
what's new? he never makes sense, it's not in his nature to do so.
Eve in a nutshell, it's you vs the universe, and every machiavellian space bastard in it. MY CSM ballot is as follows, Psychotic Monk, Mangala Solaris, Malconis, Mynnna, Apricot Baby, Ali Aras, Steve Ronuken. |
Tesal
256
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 05:39:00 -
[18] - Quote
Andski wrote:imagine a space-themed amusement park and you have several rides
that's what eve is basically going towards
Themepark = catastrophe. EvE is dying. Everyone will quit and the game will end. Oh god!!! What will I do with all my free time? Oh god!!!
|
Goremageddon Box
Guerrilla Flotilla
746
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 05:41:00 -
[19] - Quote
Test WOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (Hit my Like button!) |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
803
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 05:57:00 -
[20] - Quote
Anymore in GD peeps crying "risk vs reward' is NULL codeword for nerf HI SEC TBH Ripard Teg-á for CSM 8 Disclaimer: CCP Bias is a fictional character. In case that some CCP Bias does exist,-áis he an ex-goon? |
|
RubyPorto
Sniggwaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
3094
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 05:58:00 -
[21] - Quote
Beekeeper Bob wrote:I'm sure this makes sense to you.... So you expect new players, who have no idea how the game really works, to organize and protect themselves against players with much greater SP, much deeper pockets, and greater numbers and organization? Did you even stop to consider anything, other than your own need to grief noobs?
Confirmed: There are nothing but newbies in HS.
I'm certainly not abusing the safety of HS to make hilarious quantities of ISK. Not. At. All.
Anyway, you were the one that claimed that Nullsec is safer. Doesn't it follow that you want HS to have the same safety that Nullsec has? This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7259
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 06:04:00 -
[22] - Quote
since hisec is, according to hiseccers, for newbies and l4s and incursions aren't newbie-friendly, perhaps it's time for those things to go from hisec ~*a proud belligerent undesirable*~ TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. Malcanis for CSM 8 |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
803
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 06:06:00 -
[23] - Quote
Andski wrote:since hisec is, according to hiseccers NULL Seccers,ARE ONLY for newbies and l4s and incursions , perhaps it's time for those things to go from hisec FIXED Ripard Teg-á for CSM 8 Disclaimer: CCP Bias is a fictional character. In case that some CCP Bias does exist,-áis he an ex-goon? |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
4497
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 06:17:00 -
[24] - Quote
Maybe you should fix things in ways that make grammatical sense. Malcanis for CSM 8 Module activation timers are buggy - CCP please fix |
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
35
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 06:21:00 -
[25] - Quote
Tesal wrote:Andski wrote:imagine a space-themed amusement park and you have several rides
that's what eve is basically going towards Themepark = catastrophe. EvE is dying. Everyone will quit and the game will end. Oh god!!! What will I do with all my free time? Oh god!!!
But it is the themepark that maybe attracting them.
I didn't know incursions existed upon returning, but after finding out, going to skill up to get in those fleets as a Logi (was in a corp that just as they moved their HQ to null, an incursion hit in the HQ system. They avoided the gate/zone yet it meant they were stuck for a week in null without resupply [they didn't have the ships and support to close it, and were being instapopped just trying to get past the gate]. Had PvPers enjoying industry for a while or no PvP).
Why the interest?
They're much like raids: FC (tank); Logi chains (healers); and assorted squads of DPS (melee/ranged/CCers).
That it also requires high skills and expensive ships it's tailored to players from MMOs that are used to hardcore raiding, too.
So CCP is slipping in such content that would appeal to that very themepark demographic. "In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." ~George Orwell
|
March rabbit
No Name No Pain
603
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 06:45:00 -
[26] - Quote
Nexus Day wrote:Risk versus reward is bozo. Lo sec is about freedom, hi sec is about sacrificing those freedoms for protection. ... and here we have a problem: high-sec doesn't provide "protection". Your attacker will only meet CONCORD for a little slap in the face after he killed your ship. And insurance doesn't cover T2/faction/pirate ships and modules. All your losses are only your losses.
So nope. Adding some payments into high-sec won't make sense.
|
March rabbit
No Name No Pain
603
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 06:48:00 -
[27] - Quote
Alara IonStorm wrote: Players work to make Null stable. They build that Empire and make it safe. They are the Concord. That is why they deserve much better rewards.
they have it already.
next question? |
RubyPorto
Sniggwaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
3094
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 07:28:00 -
[28] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:Nexus Day wrote:Risk versus reward is bozo. Lo sec is about freedom, hi sec is about sacrificing those freedoms for protection. ... and here we have a problem: high-sec doesn't provide "protection". Your attacker will only meet CONCORD for a little slap in the face after he killed your ship. And insurance doesn't cover T2/faction/pirate ships and modules. All your losses are only your losses. So nope. Adding some payments into high-sec won't make sense.
HS does indeed provide protection. The fact that your attacker will lose their ship prevents most attacks that would otherwise happen.
What it doesn't provide is "prevention."
March rabbit wrote:Alara IonStorm wrote: Players work to make Null stable. They build that Empire and make it safe. They are the Concord. That is why they deserve much better rewards.
they have it already. next question?
They don't actually. At the very best it might be marginally better. And that's only for some activities. This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
1269
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 10:53:00 -
[29] - Quote
Realism? We live in fluidic space, where ships suffer from drag, even the most basic Newtonian physics don't even apply, the law of conservation of energy isn't even a thing, targeting computers get weaker as ships get larger (yet their sensor strength goes up), and for some reason the most valuable ore belts are in areas that no NPC nation dares to try to make claim to... and you want realism?
Here is realism: Upon realizing that the Mercoxit was all in 0.0 space the nearest NPC Nation invades, takes over, moves in a bunch of military police and declares it a new 1.0 system. The Mercoxit flows, private companies get rich and the taxpayers foot the bill for the soldiers; See also "Gulf War 1 & 2" for more details on exactly how this works. That is realism. No nation would let a bunch of petty pirates and vagabonds get in the way of acquiring resources. If EvE was realistic then 1.0 would all be Mercoxit & Arkanor and nullsec would be nothing but Veldspar.
Not that the position of the belts would change, mind you, but the positions of the four nations would. They would simply move out to what is currently nullsec, take over, and leave the worthless center of the map to brigands and wannabe kingdoms. See also "gentrification."
Or how about ships actually start to lose functionality as they take damage? Or when you go to suicide gank in hisec your crew mutinies, yanks your out of your pod and throws you out the airlock? Seriously, if you were to stack all the unrealistic, unbelievable crap in the EvE Universe and stacked it up against all the same thing in Harry Potter ... guess who would win the believability contest?
So... one more unbelievable thing? That's not an outrage. That's a fart in a hurricane. Live Events are neither. |
March rabbit
No Name No Pain
603
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 11:17:00 -
[30] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:March rabbit wrote:Nexus Day wrote:Risk versus reward is bozo. Lo sec is about freedom, hi sec is about sacrificing those freedoms for protection. ... and here we have a problem: high-sec doesn't provide "protection". Your attacker will only meet CONCORD for a little slap in the face after he killed your ship. And insurance doesn't cover T2/faction/pirate ships and modules. All your losses are only your losses. So nope. Adding some payments into high-sec won't make sense. HS does indeed provide protection. The fact that your attacker will lose their ship prevents most attacks that would otherwise happen. What it doesn't provide is "prevention." say it to miners who don't tank their hulks. say it to freighter pilots who get ganked (and will be when Burn Jita NNN will come) say it to pilots who get ganked "for fun"
yes, CONCORD removes some part of dangers but this is not "protection". This is more "limitation of dangers". It's like speed limit on roads: you still can lose your car on this road. However speed limitation makes is somehow rarer (but totally possible).
Technically protection = prevention of agression + compensation of loss. High-sec does not provide prevention and does not provide compensation. So nope, i can't agree that high-sec provides protection.
March rabbit wrote:Alara IonStorm wrote: Players work to make Null stable. They build that Empire and make it safe. They are the Concord. That is why they deserve much better rewards.
they have it already. next question?
They don't actually. At the very best it might be marginally better. And that's only for some activities.[/quote] Can't agree. - NPC farming: better than missions + pirate spawns - mining: (before the bots) better than in high-sec (ABC and all this stuff) + officer spawns - exploration: better than in high-sec - PvP: unlimited thus better - SOV: not in high-sec - player owned outposts: not in high-sec (don't forget about taxes for services) - PI: better than in high-sec + POCOs (lett taxes for you + taxing other people into your wallet) - ..?
And if we speak about "how better it is and how better it should be" then we need to use some numbers i guess. Without pure numbers this can't be discussed properly. |
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 .. 24 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |