Low sec is still empire that, real player driven madness (other than the markets) happens in nullsec and wormholes That's why you always see null sec and wormholes featured in CCP's Ads for the game. When was the last time we saw a CCP Advert for the game of a dude running mission after mission after bloody mission in high sec?

Quick, I think 10001 players in High-Sec could actually use a bulletproof vest (with ceramic plates even), as CONCORD does jack for protection. By the time CONCORD gets to you, you're dead, and the other dude is just waiting for his cheap gank ship to get blown up (he loses nothing, as NPCs don't pod him, either).

If CONCORD really was about protection, they would've been like my dad who was a cop...right there, with a weapon right at the ear of an offender. Move. Dead.

So this is something for CCP to think about. How much REAL protection do they offer, and how many players they really want subscribed. Because they can just look at the 800lb gorilla in the room for ideas on what's popular 10 years running.

Time is money, friend.

PVErs are not the problem,I know, I am one. The entitlement doesn't come from hardcore or even pvp players , it's displayed in the "carebears" expectation of safety even in a game like EVE online, and expectation the as of late CCP has been encouraging.

I'm simply morning the loss of a unique thing. Most of the MMO world is sharded themepark messes. While ccp can deny it all they want, EVE is heading in that general direction. As you can see by this thread, there is no shortage of people happy about that. I think it's a shame and here's hoping for a change in direction one day from CCP that might somehow preserve the traditions and spirit.of one of the few unique video games ever made.

So... your Dad never heard of response times, I guess?

CCP has seen its subscriber numbers consistently grow since EVE launched in 2003 (the only MMO on the market to have done so). In the past year or two, Blizzard has hemorrhaged about 5 EVEs worth of subscribers (2011 peak of 12m, down to a Jan 2013 9.6m).

I guess he already knew about them being an infantryman in Korea and Vietnam.

Like if you don't respond fast enough your buddies and you are going to die. Which is why he got the bronze star in Korea, by knocking out a machinegun nest that was pinning down the squad.

And where did these players come from again (as MMOs share many of the same players)?

Do you know how many who play EvE and playing WoW?

You bet it's more than the "vets" in numbers.

No MMO is a an island.

Are Police in your conception of reality both Omniscient and Omnipresent?

If So, where is this magic fairyland?

They would be nice to have in EvE. Having them jail or even kill Goons and likewise pirates would be a blessing...and you know many would be rooting for the cleanup, too.



Knock, knock: you're playing EvE.

I hope you don't think it's reality.

I know what service CONCORD provides (it's Protection)

Because it has no relationship to how things really work. You can always make the most money in areas where there is the most stability. And when you think about it that makes sense. here is what doesn't.

The price of stability is a higher "price of admission". I could mine gold in the Congo or in Alaska. In the Congo there are less barriers to entry and lower overall costs, but significantly more risk. It is the first part that is missing in EvE hi sec, barriers to entry and higher overall costs.

Nothing is free in a "civilized" nation or space. Where are the mining permits and the subsequent outlaws that mine without a permit? Where are the taxes, beyond corporate taxes, for living in protected space? Docking permits, trade license, etc.

Beyond making the hi sec experience realistic it could add flavor to the game. Loose practices in some factions including corrupt officials or tight laws down to a specific permit required for each type of ore. All available at a local space station.

Risk versus reward is bozo. Lo sec is about freedom, hi sec is about sacrificing those freedoms for protection.

You also are claiming CONCORD can't be tanked.

Ask your Goon gatecampers how uninformed that remark is!

You can definitely tank their guns, especially if going for a prized target.

On any actions that Concord has deemed unacceptable, they will respond by destroying the offender's ship. The offender's pod is not touched. It is considered an exploit to dodge Concord's response.

See, some people around here have been mistaking complaints about barge balance with "crying". In reality barge ganking took a hit but thanks to most miners picking untanked retreivers with t2 mining gear fitted we still can make a profit. Like always, us bad guys have adapted.

The one observation still remains: "bad guys" usually spend 10x times more posts for tears than their victims

And not only you "bad guys" adapt - everyone does it. Every time.

None of these are preventative agents (the Secret Service has a different part of the structure that does prevention), all of them are referred to as protective. (The US Supreme Court has even ruled on a case saying that the Police have no duty to prevent any specific crime, and thus cannot be held responsible if they fail to do so.)

Concord provides Protection. The Secret Service provides Protection (not one Presidential Assassin or would-be Assassin has gotten away). The Police provide protection (even though a lot of criminals get away wit their crimes). A bulletproof vest provides protection (even though it does nothing to stop someone from shooting you).

Ratting: Worse than (maybe on par with) Incursions (esp using similar Equipment/Equipment value). Missions are no longer the comparison point for HS red-cross-shooting income.

PvP: is a cost, by any economic measurement.
SOV: is a cost. What income do you gain simply from holding Sov?
Outposts: Worse than HS stations, and the Fees are simply removing a cost of living there, at best (they do not create any ISK or material, they just adjust who gets to keep it).

PI: Sure. We'll give Nullsec PI. Well... except factory planets, which are HS or maybe LS.

RL:- How many suicide gankers stopped their business because of CONCORD (read: in the fear of loosing this precious and f... expensive catalyst)? I'm pretty sure - not one.

Those who avoid ganking someone because of concord leave no evidence of this actually happening.

PI taxes aren't high.

Because it has no relationship to how things really work. You can always make the most money in areas where there is the most stability. And when you think about it that makes sense. here is what doesn't.

The price of stability is a higher "price of admission". I could mine gold in the Congo or in Alaska. In the Congo there are less barriers to entry and lower overall costs, but significantly more risk. It is the first part that is missing in EvE hi sec, barriers to entry and higher overall costs.

Nothing is free in a "civilized" nation or space. Where are the mining permits and the subsequent outlaws that mine without a permit? Where are the taxes, beyond corporate taxes, for living in protected space? Docking permits, trade license, etc.

Beyond making the hi sec experience realistic it could add flavor to the game. Loose practices in some factions including corrupt officials or tight laws down to a specific permit required for each type of ore. All available at a local space station.

Risk versus reward is bozo. Lo sec is about freedom, hi sec is about sacrificing those freedoms for protection.

this works both ways: we have no evidences if bulletproof vest works or not.

then i guess: better planets + less taxes. Still something to be considered.

Take the vest off and see what happens, then.

No. Get out.

Players work to make Null stable. They build that Empire and make it safe. They are the Concord. That is why they deserve much better rewards.

In a civilized nation, you can spend billions buying parks, sponsoring education for less fortunate, etc. Get drunk and hit someone in your car and you'll be crucified for it no matter how many people you've saved and improved the lives for.

As such, if EVE's environment were based upon civilized nations, you couldn't "rat your sec status back" after ganking someone and even in "the bad part of town" (lowsec), the cops would swing by on occasion looking to nail the criminals. Only nullsec - outside of *ALL* jurisdiction, would such "freedom" exist.

Quick, what does a Bulletproof Vest provide? Protection.
What's the generic motto of a police force? Protect and Serve.
What's the purpose of the Secret Service Protective detail? To Protect the President.

None of these are preventative agents (the Secret Service has a different part of the structure that does prevention), all of them are referred to as protective. (The US Supreme Court has even ruled on a case saying that the Police have no duty to prevent any specific crime, and thus cannot be held responsible if they fail to do so.)

Concord provides Protection. The Secret Service provides Protection (not one Presidential Assassin or would-be Assassin has gotten away). The Police provide protection (even though a lot of criminals get away wit their crimes). A bulletproof vest provides protection (even though it does nothing to stop someone from shooting you).



Ratting: Worse than (maybe on par with) Incursions (esp using similar Equipment/Equipment value). Missions are no longer the comparison point for HS red-cross-shooting income.
Mining: Clearing a hidden belt is similar income to (as Dave pointed out) Scordite. You can't cherry pick in Null the way you can in HS. Also export costs, because (due to the state of Industry in Nullsec) there's no significant local consumption to sell to.
Exploration: Maybe. But 4/10s drop some of the most expensive deadspace items around.
PvP: is a cost, by any economic measurement.
SOV: is a cost. What income do you gain simply from holding Sov?
Outposts: Worse than HS stations, and the Fees are simply removing a cost of living there, at best (they do not create any ISK or material, they just adjust who gets to keep it).
PI: Sure. We'll give Nullsec PI. Well... except factory planets, which are HS or maybe LS.

Come to Nullsec: We have marginally better PI!




What happened? The Drone regions got nerfed, eliminating a huge source of highly compressed Low end minerals (also High end minerals, but the way the Industry upgrade system works, that doesn't matter so much). Also M0 drops were eliminated, and Hidden belts were rebalanced to produce more High Ends.

Actually, general forums are where folks mostly discuss this stuff. I rarely posted on the class and other forums on the WoW/Rift/EQII forums. Everyone who was anyone parked themselves in general.

And I truly don't do it for the politics and headaches it can cause (especially the dogpiles and bait/report games), but do it because I like to play with many people, not more niche numbered games filled with dinosaurs. It's a MMO, it's suppose to be m-a-s-s-i-v-e. It's suppose to support a variety of playstyles.

And I talk about all the issues not just the talking points...then claiming to be "independent".

I'm truly independent. Could n-e-v-e-r be on the powerblocks leash.

Concord does not provide protection. They provide punishment for transgressions. They are NOT a bullet proof vest. They are the executioners.

Please look up "suicide ganking" for further details.

And? Concord does provide protection, it's just a soft protection and not a hard protection. And just like a bulletproof vest, it doesn't stop all gankers from ganking you. In some cases, ganks are avoided because the ganker doesn't want to take the punishment, in somne cases ganks are avoided because the ganker underestimates your HP, and sometimes you're just shot with an armorpiercing bullet.

Life sucks, wear a helmet.

Wear a helmet.

It does depending on the alliance & the persons roll within the alliance. It even happens in highsec. It's amazing what people will do to get you safely kicked out of their corp after you awox everyone then AFK cloak in system for the rest of the day.