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Tuxford	Posted - 2005.09.15 16:13:00 - [1] Stats and bonuses might change before this hit TQ Frigates Mining Tormentor Gets an extra low slot CPU output increased to 140tf Bantam Gets an extra low slot CPU output increased to 150tf Navitas Gets an extra med slot CPU output increased to 150tf Burst Gets an extra med slot CPU output increased to 140tf Tackling Executioner Max velocity increased to 410m/s Condor New mass 1 150 000 kg Poweroutput increased to 25MW High slot added Max velocity increased to 375m/s Turret hardpoint changed to launcher hardpoint Existing bonuses replaced with 5% missile kinetic damage per level and 10% missile velocity per level Atron New Mass 1 100 000 kg Max velocity increased to 380m/s Targetting range bonus replaced with 10% bonus to small hybrids falloff per level Slasher Max velocity increased to 390m/s Max velocity bonus replaced with 5% projectile damage per level Scout All the Scout frigates get one of their bonuses replaced with 5% bonus to scan probe duration. Heron CPU output increased to 250tf Launcher slot added Targetting range bonus replaced with scout bonus Imicus CPU output increased to 230tf Small hybrid damage bonus replaced with scout bonus Probe CPU output increased to 220tf Max velocity bonus replaced with scout bonus EWAR I haven't really changed these ones, their bonuses already make them pretty unique. Vigil Max velocity bonus replaced with 5% small projectile damage bonus per level Assault The missile frigates, Inquisitor, Kestrel and Breacher have all lost their rate of fire bonus. Instead they get 5% damage per level to all missile damage types except for their race specific damage type where they get 10% per level. Punisher Poweroutput increased to 45MW CPU output decreased to 115tf Capacitor capacity increased to 340 Cap recharge bonus replaced with 5% armor resistance per level Merlin Gets an extra med slot CPU output increased to 175tf Capacitor Capacity increased to 280 Shield hitpoint bonus replaced with 5% shield resistance per level Tristan Poweroutput increased ot 38MW Max velocity increased to 260m/s Capacitor capacity increased to 280 Rifter Poweroutput increased to 37MW Max velocity increased to 320m/s Max velocity bonus replaced with 10% accuracy falloff per level Inquisitor Poweroutput increased to 32MW High slot added Max velocity increased to 270m/s Kestrel Max Velocity increased to 260m/s CPU output increased to 150tf Incursus Poweroutput increased to 34MW Max velocity increased to 300m/s CPU output decreased to 110tf Capacitor capacity increased to 260 Tracking bonus replaced with 10% accuracy falloff per level Breacher Poweroutput increased to 31MW CPU output increased to 135tf _______________


Tuxford	Posted - 2005.09.15 16:13:00 - [2] Cruisers Mining The Mining Ships Osprey and Scythe are the best miners of it's race and I don't see any reason to change that. Logistic Augoror Existing bonuses replaced with 150% bonus to range and 10% bonus to remote armor repairer cap efficiency per level Exequror Bonuses replaced with 150% bonus to range and 5% bonus to effect of tracking links per level EWAR The EWAR cruisers get a bonus to Arbitrator Low slot changed to a med slot Medium energy weapon cap reduction bonus replaced with 5% bonus to tracking disruptors efficiency per level Blackbird Celestis High slot changed to a med slot Bellicose Low slot changed to a med slot Max velocity bonus replaced with 5% bonus to target painter effect per level Assault Maller Poweroutput increased to 900MW CPU output decreased to 270tf Moa Shield boost bonus changed to 5% shield resists per level CPU output increased to 400tf Thorax Dronebay decreased to 100m^3 Poweroutput increased to 850MW Rupture Poweroutput increased to 850MW CPU output increased to 45tf Omen Launcher hardpoint added Poweroutput increased to 730MW CPU output decreased to 250tf Caracal Poweroutput decreased to 530MW CPU output increased to 350tf Vexor Poweroutput increased to 675MW CPU output decreased to 270tf Stabber Poweroutput increased to 700MW _______________

DigitalCommunist	Posted - 2005.09.15 16:16:00 - [3] hmm.. reading. Perpetually driven, your end is our beginning.
Agnar Koladrov	Posted - 2005.09.15 16:18:00 - [4] WOW, wow is all I can say! Nice stats indeed, keep it up, looks good!
siim	Posted - 2005.09.15 16:19:00 - [5] The Executioner wont be able to tackle with only 1 medslot sry
HippoKing	Posted - 2005.09.15 16:21:00 - [6] i wanted to be first :(
Derron Bel	Posted - 2005.09.15 16:23:00 - [7] Edited by: Derron Bel on 15/09/2005 16:24:34 I agree with Siim. Concern: Such an upgraded punisher would probably outperform the Amarr Navy Slicer, being as it has more grid. -==- Holy-Jim> as you know, surprise is the key to victory.....surprise! LooseCannoN> ahh! LooseCannoN> my plans have been foiled!
Grim Vandal	Posted - 2005.09.15 16:23:00 - [8] what about -20% sig for all cruisers or just plain +20% speed for all cruisers ... Greetings Grim
siim	Posted - 2005.09.15 16:23:00 - [9] Minmatar and Amarr cruisers will be good while Caldari is useless again But I saw it coming anyways
Dezzyb0y	Posted - 2005.09.15 16:24:00 - [10] Exectuiner has 1 mid slot... whats it gonna tackle with that... Some of the changes look ok, some of them look like they were picked by a 3 year old =/ ----------------------- K4rls 1400mm Howitzer Artillery I perfectly strikes Republic Fleet Testing Facilities, wrecking for 1395.9 dama
wierchas noobhunter	Posted - 2005.09.15 16:25:00 - [11] Edited by: wierchas noobhunter on 15/09/2005 16:27:34 more pg to moa !!!!!!!!!! why CCP hate caldari?
Alex Farsiris	Posted - 2005.09.15 16:26:00 - [12] gj on the raxs drone bay... and i agree with the point about the excutionor med : )
Crellion	Posted - 2005.09.15 16:28:00 - [13] Edited by: Crellion on 15/09/2005 16:30:30 Interesting... so the nerfbat now hits the Thorax. Nerf ammar silly devs thats the only uber race how can you not see that??? [If you think that was bad wait till I yell at you in real rife... Iceland here I come ] [BTW if you keep this to tech 1 ships only the Moa -due to +5 resist and drones will be a better ship than Eagle Lets hear it for teh Balance team: hip hip, hurray]
elFarto	Posted - 2005.09.15 16:29:00 - [14] Hmmm, nice, the Merlin and Punisher look nice. Regards elFarto
HippoKing	Posted - 2005.09.15 16:29:00 - [15] Originally by: wierchas noobhunter Edited by: wierchas noobhunter on 15/09/2005 16:27:34 more pg to moa !!!!!!!!!! why CCP hate caldari? it gets teh uber resist bonus, and u cry? i just dnt get some ppl...
Agnar Koladrov	Posted - 2005.09.15 16:31:00 - [16] Edited by: Agnar Koladrov on 15/09/2005 16:31:04 Been looking them through, some notes though: - Caldari ship would fare much better if min slots for cruisers were set to 3. - Bellicose would fit more diversly with more PG (what was intende setup for this ship from development point of view?)
Grimpak	Posted - 2005.09.15 16:33:00 - [17] Edited by: Grimpak on 15/09/2005 16:34:19 Quote: Executioner * Max velocity increased to 410m/s needs another med at least. Quote: Slasher * Max velocity increased to 390m/s * Max velocity bonus replaced with 5% projectile damage per level same as the executioner. or another low. Quote: Thorax * Dronebay decreased to 100m^3 * Poweroutput increased to 850MW FOR TEH W1N! Quote: Vexor * Poweroutput increased to 675MW * CPU output decreased to 270tf boost drone bay here. ------------------- Grimpak, all round nice guy
wierchas noobhunter	Posted - 2005.09.15 16:34:00 - [18] Originally by: HippoKing Originally by: wierchas noobhunter Edited by: wierchas noobhunter on 15/09/2005 16:27:34 more pg to moa !!!!!!!!!! why CCP hate caldari? it gets teh uber resist bonus, and u cry? i just dnt get some ppl... why sniping ship need more resists? i wana have more mag stabs in low
Chronus26	Posted - 2005.09.15 16:35:00 - [19] First thing i would like to thank those who spent 16 pages moaning about how the thorax is overpowerd as it is when anyone with half a brain knows its not really. The PG boost so that we might be able to use med turrets is welcome, and will at least mean we can use a proper cruiser setup on our lovely ships. The changes to these ships look promising and I hope ther are as good in game as they look on paper.
Elve Sorrow	Posted - 2005.09.15 16:35:00 - [20] Move Executioner to the Scout class and introduce the sixth Amarr Frigate for tackling. Amarr starting the game as an unfinished race is one thing. 2 Years down the line it still being unfinished is moronic. Regarding Amarr cruisers. Comments regarding cruisers pending.
Sgt Blade	Posted - 2005.09.15 16:39:00 - [21] great ideas, exellent to put these boost's into tech 1 frigs so newbies dont get wftpwn very quickly great job and keep it goining /me gets his t1 frigs to take down t2 frig more often now
Jack Brimstone	Posted - 2005.09.15 16:42:00 - [22] Some interesting stuff here .. still digesting it. I am a little disappointed that the Vexor didn't get a buffed drone capacity, since the Thorax lost out there. Also, I would have preferred a 3 turret hardpoint Tristan at the expense of a highslot even, rather than the current nasty turret/missile/utiltity layout of 2/1/1. These changes will make t1 ships more interesting overall though i think.
Garreck	Posted - 2005.09.15 16:43:00 - [23] Gah. Not happy with the thorax getting its dronebay nerfed in half, though an extra 150 grid will certainly allow for it to make up much of the lost drone firepower with guns. Just seems a damn shame to make every ship exactly the same. Gaurantee blaster-raxes become more rare and rail-based 'raxes become more the norm. There won't be much point in risking the increased sig-radius of an mwd and the delayed damage inherent to close-range combat if you don't have enough damage output to make up the difference in "lost" damage and if you've got the grid to fit rails and just gun away from medium range anyway. In terms of raw "numbers," though? Yeah, these changes should make everybody's numbers look nice and pretty and even. Garreck Aeternus Crusade Aku. Soku. Zan.
Doomdutch	Posted - 2005.09.15 16:44:00 - [24] Good ideas in general. But about your condor changes, what is it with the Caldari Ships and kinetic missile damage. Worst ship bonus ever! You handicap the ability to use different type of damage, which is one of the advantages of using missiles (the other one being the no-range factor). You don't see a minnmatar ships bonus that says 5% damage on EMP and Phased Plasma. Fix the bonus for the caracal, the crow and your planned change for the condor. Put anything else (and when I say anything else, I mean it); painting bonus, mwd, rof, shield bonus, hull bonus(!), ANYTHING ELSE!!!! But as I said, good ideas in general. Good Day DoomDutch
NoLock LetsNegociate	Posted - 2005.09.15 16:45:00 - [25] Edited by: NoLock LetsNegociate on 15/09/2005 16:52:52 Originally by: Tuxford Augoror Existing bonuses replaced with 150% bonus to range and 10% bonus to remote armor repairer cap efficiency per level You'll remove the only interesting thing with Augoror : his incredibly strong armor. Where is the use for a so weak ship as support ? It will blow up in few sec. Originally by: Tuxford Arbitrator Low slot changed to a med slot Medium energy weapon cap reduction bonus replaced with 5% bonus to tracking disruptors efficiency per level Rhaaa, even worst. Arby is NOT a EW ship. With so much fire power in his drone bay, it's first of all a takler. To be honest, traking disruptor is absolutely useless. Where is the use to disrupt 1 opponent when you have 5 to 10 orbiting around you ? Traking disruptor is usefull for intys or a freg when you orbit around your trarget. Call me back when you'll use a cruiser as an inty... (exept those with MWD bonus) Arby, have a low tanking ability so it NEED his 5th low slot. Moreover, it have a low capaitor, just enought for a painter, 2 Med guns and sometime an Armor reparer. A EW module will kill capa and disrupt tanking ability. Those change are nerf IMO. I use Arby every days and I say that : You are killing this awesome ship when you know how to use it. PS : Arby is my favorite hull design
Joerd Toastius	Posted - 2005.09.15 16:48:00 - [26] Third the suggestion that the Executioner's entirely pointless as a tackler if it can't fit at least one AB/MWD and one webber/scrambler. Also, is it possible to get some feedback on the reasoning behind gimping the tank ability of the only decent Amarr drone carrier (Arbitrator)? I realise that you want to create a logistics cruiser and an EW cruiser but you're still removing capabilities, and to be honest I doubt the Augoror will be used as a logistics ship very often :/ Unless you improve the Guardian it's going to stay cheap enough that most fleets will find one of those if they want some remote support done, which makes the Augoror largely useless in its new role. I can see the problem though; because of the large amount of overlap between the Maller and Omen there isn't really room to fit all the desirable roles in, unless the Omen has its bay upgraded and is positioned as a drone ship - but then you're gonna have to lower offensive capabilities to counteract that. To be honest, it's not a massive loss - I've never flown an Arbitrator and only ever used drones in a peripheral role (as a red-blooded Amarrian I know there's only one way to fight a battle, and that's big f-off lasers) - but it does seem something of a shame to remove the quirky appeal of the old girl, even if she does gain a new role. (And I have to admit, the hull design is lovely and it'd be nice to see more of them out and about) BTW, any plans for BCs/Destroyers? While the former are pretty solid, the latter are definitely solutions in search of a problem atm...
Nyxus	Posted - 2005.09.15 16:49:00 - [27] Excellent job guys - really nice. I am glad that CCP is making all ships have a niche an attempt to be effective in that niche. A couple of suggestions: Executioner is a scout - it can't tackle with one mid (as many seem to agree). Can the Kestral get a bit more Capacitor? The cap is so small it can't warp a lot of systems in a single jump thereby producing the "Omg wait on teh newb tacklers" syndrome. We want them to feel included, and the tiny cap, even with decent skills makes them feel not so loved since everyone has to wait for them to warp. Nyxus
Thanos Firebringer	Posted - 2005.09.15 16:49:00 - [28] Yay for making everything equal. How stupid. Ships have specialzations for a reason. It's called STRATEGY!!! Thorax had a big drone bay. Get over it. It's consistent w/ the Gallente race of ships. They have bigger drones bays. Not every ship shoud be made the same. I do like the Moa gettin the resistance, but then it's almost too much like the maller. Originality is good. Set Trip and Get Smoked .......
Harry Voyager	Posted - 2005.09.15 16:50:00 - [29] Erm, the Probe is a mining and cargo frigate, not EWar or scouting. Ditching its 5% speed bonus for a scan probe duration bonus is rather irritating for those of us who still use it as a skiff, or those newbies who're still using it for mining. In other words, the Probe is pretty much perfect as it is. There is no need for it to become a scan probe boat. Give the scan duration bonus to the Burster. Harry Voyager
Cividari	Posted - 2005.09.15 16:52:00 - [30] Quote: Thorax Dronebay decreased to 100m^3 Poweroutput increased to 850MW Get started whining ppl, mabey we can beat the whining of last time this was suggested Wanted for crimes against a rich guy.

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