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| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 58 post(s) |
DrunkenOne
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Posted - 2005.09.15 18:25:00 -
[91]
Thoughts:
Minmatar frigs will suck now. Everyone will use incursus and merlins. Merlin now has as many mids as a STILETTO. Celestis is the pwn too.
Donmt take minmatar speed bonuses ;(
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Epictetus
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Posted - 2005.09.15 18:28:00 -
[92]
Will add my voice to the others whining about taking away the minnie speed bonuses. Espescially on the vigil.
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Guardian Alpha
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Posted - 2005.09.15 18:28:00 -
[93]
I'm I the only one that's see a tristan vaporize an incursus multiple times in PvP, and have seen the tristan solo 0.1 multiple cruiser/frigate spawns? Why the continual praise for the incursus, just because it has 3 gun slots and is only slightly faster than the tristan, but with less defence and pg?
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HUGO DRAX
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Posted - 2005.09.15 18:28:00 -
[94]
Rax is useless with nerf. not enough PG for 5 T2 mediums and a plate/hardeners and now only 4 drones VS 8 drones.
Where is the Gallente Drone cruiser, now that the vexor is not getting a drone bay boost and the rax will be back to its paperthin status.
I guess I will have to fly a Dominix now and ignore cruisers. Good job for less diversity. now Battleships wil be the only ship I fly or Frigs. Cruisers will be useless for Gallente. Unless I choose to wait 150 days to purchase a Ishtar.
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Sabbott
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Posted - 2005.09.15 18:28:00 -
[95]
 Originally by: Elve Sorrow
The fastest tackling frigate which cannt equip any tackling gear, yes.
Clearly the best of all tacklers.
lol, agreed, 1 mid slot, and going 400m/s , might as well tackle in a shuttle
Our website http://www.blood-inquisition.net
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danneh
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Posted - 2005.09.15 18:30:00 -
[96]
I like most of the changes. 
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danneh
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Posted - 2005.09.15 18:31:00 -
[97]
Originally by: HUGO DRAX
Rax is useless with nerf. not enough PG for 5 T2 mediums and a plate/hardeners and now only 4 drones VS 8 drones.
Where is the Gallente Drone cruiser, now that the vexor is not getting a drone bay boost and the rax will be back to its paperthin status.
I guess I will have to fly a Dominix now and ignore cruisers. Good job for less diversity. now Battleships wil be the only ship I fly or Frigs. Cruisers will be useless for Gallente. Unless I choose to wait 150 days to purchase a Ishtar.
ROFL, ill still take my thorax out instead of my maller anyday.
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Guardian Alpha
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Posted - 2005.09.15 18:32:00 -
[98]
Quote:
Rax is useless with nerf. not enough PG for 5 T2 mediums and a plate/hardeners and now only 4 drones VS 8 drones.
Oh noees!! Not being able to fit all tech2 heavies with a full tanking setup on a tech 1 cruiser?!?!
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Tinio Lileis
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Posted - 2005.09.15 18:32:00 -
[99]
Edited by: Tinio Lileis on 15/09/2005 18:32:53
Originally by: Letouk Mernel
It would be nice to designate a cruiser for mining for every race, not just the two. People still stick to their beginner race as they get to cruisers, and thus will need to mine in their racial ship. They probably de-specialize later on, and pick other races ships, but the upgrade to a mining cruiser happens early, and so I think each race needs its own mining cruiser.
Second, what are you doing about the overall problem that cruisers have, that they can't rely on speed (like frigates) or tanking (like battleships) to survive damage from battleships? Least used type of cruiser: straight-damage, especially the long range ones that suck for missions. Most used: mining.
I disagree, Im minmatar and i trained caldari cruiser because the osprey is better than the scythe (cargo, dronebay, cpu..)
training frigate 4 + a few levels in cruiser in a race other than your own is a cheap price to pay for a ship that outperforms a small mining barge.
And.. dont touch the speed bonus of my probe, slasher & vigil!
I like the rifter changes though.. and the merlin too :)
making probe the scout ship is a bad idea, same with imicus.. they are mining frigates and minihaulers (in the probes case a fast courier) and i like them both as they are.
Edit: (yes the portrait is caldari, im having some fun with an alt for once :)
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Agnar Koladrov
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Posted - 2005.09.15 18:35:00 -
[100]
Edited by: Agnar Koladrov on 15/09/2005 18:36:08
Originally by: HUGO DRAX
Rax is useless with nerf. not enough PG for 5 T2 mediums and a plate/hardeners and now only 4 drones VS 8 drones.
Where is the Gallente Drone cruiser, now that the vexor is not getting a drone bay boost and the rax will be back to its paperthin status.
I guess I will have to fly a Dominix now and ignore cruisers. Good job for less diversity. now Battleships wil be the only ship I fly or Frigs. Cruisers will be useless for Gallente. Unless I choose to wait 150 days to purchase a Ishtar.
Just to point out something:
No 5x T2....there are very few cruisers who can fit full rack of T2 guns let alone armor plates with T2 med guns 
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Zophi
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Posted - 2005.09.15 18:35:00 -
[101]
If you are going to nerf the Thorax dronebay, give it to the Vexor. Galente should have at least one uber drone cruiser.
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"Why can't we all just get along?" |
Kula Alpha
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Posted - 2005.09.15 18:36:00 -
[102]
An important consideration is who flies the ship; is it a noob ship, or for high skills players? The Thorax is underpowered for those with low skills, and rewards those with Electronics/Engineering/Drone skills maxed, and the ISK for tech II and named modules. In that sense it grows with the player, more than any other ship that I know of. Changing the Thorax to a more conventional gunnery/armor-tanking ship by increasing powergrid and reducing its unique drone capability is worse than just a nerf, it is a step to cookie-cutterizing an unusual ship. And the proposed change would make it a lot easier to outfit by those who have not climbed the skill tree very far. So keep it as it is, (or add a bit of powergrid ) something of an intermediate between standard cruisers and the assault/TII ships for those with high skills. Those with low skills who fly one get to look at a very handsome ship of mediocre ability that gives a lot of incentive to up skills.
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MinerMan IX
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Posted - 2005.09.15 18:39:00 -
[103]
i realy realy dont agree with the min ships losing there speed bonus, i mean wtf would they have for a defense with out speed? dmg bonus on the slasher? hos that going to be useful. i think the vigil and slasher and rifer bonuses are fine
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Pham Nuuwen
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Posted - 2005.09.15 18:39:00 -
[104]
What in the hell are you thinking? And who the hell are you? Have you even PLAYED EVE? You stupid devs monkeying around with perfectly balanced ships... this is @#*$ing absurd. Thorax down to 100m3 drones? Why don't you just cut off our balls? This is like the missile changes, or the ECM changes... NEITHER one needed to be fixed... and you totally BLEW IT on those changes. PLEASE give us some new content, rather than focusing on nerfing existing gameplay. I am leader of a corp of 25 people for the last twelve months and I suddenly feel like quitting. STOP ******* WITH OUR SHIPS.
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Hast
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Posted - 2005.09.15 18:40:00 -
[105]
wtf is the point of taking away the Vigil speedbonus and put in a pretty useless dmg bonus? you dont even need guns on it now lol, since ew shows on killmails
not a happy bunny 
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
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Joda Vibe
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Posted - 2005.09.15 18:41:00 -
[106]
I wish to voice my concern over the Minmatar ships losing the speed bonuses too. Could Tuxford please explain the reasoning behind this pretty drastic decision. To me it seems like you are changing the entire races paradigm in one fell swoop. What are the Minmatar ships going to be best at if they are no longer the fastest?
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Guardian Alpha
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Posted - 2005.09.15 18:44:00 -
[107]
Quote:
What in the hell are you thinking? And who the hell are you? Have you even PLAYED EVE? You stupid devs monkeying around with perfectly balanced ships... this is @#*$ing absurd. Thorax down to 100m3 drones? Why don't you just cut off our balls? This is like the missile changes, or the ECM changes... NEITHER one needed to be fixed... and you totally BLEW IT on those changes. PLEASE give us some new content, rather than focusing on nerfing existing gameplay. I am leader of a corp of 25 people for the last twelve months and I suddenly feel like quitting. STOP ******* WITH OUR SHIPS.
Sounds like someone depended on ship and modules instead of advancing themselves as a capable, adaptable pilot that knows how to win in a thorax without a difference of 5 drones (it's not a drone cruiser).
Oh, can I have your stuff?
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Sabbott
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Posted - 2005.09.15 18:45:00 -
[108]
Edited by: Sabbott on 15/09/2005 18:45:45
Adding more of my ideas & thoughts,
Firstly, mining frigates are nice, but all should be able to fit 3 miner1's or such. make them actually usefull for new players to use for awhile.
Tackling frigates, need to be evened out, Executioner isnt a tackler without 2 mid slots, sorry, its more of a cheap disposable scout atm, think
Scout class, probe , heron etc. have nice bonus's. notice the probe frigates warping capacitor on alt to be low, takes many warps to warp. maybe fix that.
EW cruiser class, celestis / blackbird etc. are nice and changes to bellicose are not too bad, i like that the range bonus was kept, seems more like a sniper/long range ship like the Augorer should mirror. the Arbitrators tracking disruption is kind of useless though, frigates are meant to do that.
Cruiser "assualt" is nice, all changes here to omen, rupture, and maller, moa, seem decent, although moa is still outclassed to others. sheild resist should be resist and boost. cause all moa's i encounter die so fast, also caracal needs a speed boost. vexor, stabber and rest are ok.
Another note, punishers changes are very nice... inquisitor should be given another low slot to make it more amarr like, and/or another missle slot.
I do think, amarr need another cruiser class, for EW or mining. to be in line with other races. and for exquerer, it was a nice cargo hauler, maybe give it a bonus for mining like osprey and leave its cargo bonus's and make it 3 guns, 1 missle, just an idea.
Dont turn this thread into a whine, devs need nice ideas, and you thorax users, bug off.... its most powerfull cruiser there is, and still will be after nerf.
Our website http://www.blood-inquisition.net
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Darkana Jade
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Posted - 2005.09.15 18:46:00 -
[109]
I rarely post but since so many of these changes will effect all my characters and many not in a good way here are my thoughts. I have 4 main characters, one from each race, that flys the racial ships for each. So I get the ups and down for all nerfs and boosts.
First off the mining frigs. Unless they get a very unique bonus and/or use they are still worthless for anyone more than a couple months old. Larger and deticated ships are not only able to out mine them like mining barges or can operate in low sec or 0.0 and defend themselves like the mining cruisers and BS fitted for mining. Young miners do need ships but once they get more skills why still use these?
Next up tackling frigs. First off by default they need two mids. One for propulsion to close to target fast enough and second to tackle them when in range. I still don't understand why a tackling ship gets any damage bonus and not a bonus to say tackling? Tackling ships are to get in range in stop ships from running so the damage dealers can get the kill. Think bonus to webs and disruptors and no damage bonus and now we are talking. The same should go with interceptors as well. Let the tech I and II assaults do the damage.
Scouts ship idea in general looks fine.
Ewar ships in general are already also fine.
Assault is a mixed bag. The resist bonus are very much useful. Assaults should in general be the damage dealers for the frigs and at the same time be able to take the damage as well. Each should fit with racial trends. Amarr and Caldari get that perfect. Rifter gets shafted but I will talk about the Matari ships by themselves. Kestral could also use a little more grid.
Matari ships have always been known for speed and it is one of the few things they have other than being jack of all trades. Why then do you take away the speed bonus? It is one of the things that has always made matari frigs stand out. Quick into battle and out and using the speed as a defense as well. The rifters falloff bonus is worthless to me. I rather have the speed bonus to either close the range quick with autos or maintain optimal with arties. Speed allows you to stay in optimal and get max damage and falloff bonus with less speed means you are not shooting in optimal and gimping your damage. Very bad trade off. All matari frigs should not loose the speed bonus. Non assualt frigs would be better off keeping the speed bonus and giving up a gun related bonus. Speed bonus is a Matari frig trademark. Remove it and you have just another frig and leaving them with the jack of all trades.
Now for the incurus. Again falloff bonus to me is gimped and not useful. The tracking bonus was by far more useful and very much help it out working as blasterboat. With the tracking bonus it is the small fast frig killer with blasters. Again falloff just means less damage.
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siim
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Posted - 2005.09.15 18:48:00 -
[110]
Originally by: DrunkenOne
Thoughts:
Minmatar frigs will suck now. Everyone will use incursus and merlins. Merlin now has as many mids as a STILETTO. Celestis is the pwn too.
Donmt take minmatar speed bonuses ;(
Wow yea making merlin actually useful is really bad
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Deka Kador
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Posted - 2005.09.15 18:50:00 -
[111]
Rifter is getting a speed boost, fyi.
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Alex Harumichi
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Posted - 2005.09.15 18:51:00 -
[112]
Originally by: Sabbott
the Arbitrators tracking disruption is kind of useless though, frigates are meant to do that.
Useless? 15 t2 medium drones (assuming good skills) + a pile of tracking disrupters with +25% bonuses just screams "evil!" to me. I'm getting me an Arbi if these changes do through, one of these properly set up should be very very nasty in a small combat group -- or even solo.
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HUGO DRAX
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Posted - 2005.09.15 18:56:00 -
[113]
Originally by: Kula Alpha
An important consideration is who flies the ship; is it a noob ship, or for high skills players? The Thorax is underpowered for those with low skills, and rewards those with Electronics/Engineering/Drone skills maxed, and the ISK for tech II and named modules. In that sense it grows with the player, more than any other ship that I know of. Changing the Thorax to a more conventional gunnery/armor-tanking ship by increasing powergrid and reducing its unique drone capability is worse than just a nerf, it is a step to cookie-cutterizing an unusual ship. And the proposed change would make it a lot easier to outfit by those who have not climbed the skill tree very far. So keep it as it is, (or add a bit of powergrid ) something of an intermediate between standard cruisers and the assault/TII ships for those with high skills. Those with low skills who fly one get to look at a very handsome ship of mediocre ability that gives a lot of incentive to up skills.
I agree, the rax is not a get in and go ship. It requires specialising to fly this ship. I will now fly the Dominix/Incursus instead, I sold my stock of spare raxes just in time at a decent price I saw this nerf coming.
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HUGO DRAX
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Posted - 2005.09.15 18:58:00 -
[114]
Originally by: Joda Vibe
I wish to voice my concern over the Minmatar ships losing the speed bonuses too. Could Tuxford please explain the reasoning behind this pretty drastic decision. To me it seems like you are changing the entire races paradigm in one fell swoop. What are the Minmatar ships going to be best at if they are no longer the fastest?
 HAHA you got nerfed too. Good Karma I say.
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Bazman
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Posted - 2005.09.15 18:59:00 -
[115]
I know its a T1 ship overhaul, but the burning question for me is are the Ship bonus' going to carry over to their T2 counterparts? If so, we can look forward to Hawks with nasty nasty tanks and Enyo's with blasters that hit at insane ranges with optimal and falloff bonus':P
^¼_¼^
this is bazman. copy bazman into your bio
to help him on his way to world domination |
Altaireus
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Posted - 2005.09.15 19:23:00 -
[116]
Edited by: Altaireus on 15/09/2005 19:26:36
remove the speed from minmatar ships and you are taking away the only thing which makes them unique.
and Probe gets 220 cpu.. which means the T1 Scout ship will have more cpu than the T2 Scout (Cheetah) 
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siim
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Posted - 2005.09.15 19:26:00 -
[117]
Originally by: Altaireus
Originally by: Deka Kador
Rifter is getting a speed boost, fyi.
Unless you have more than frigate lvl 1, then its a speed nerf..
It will still be one of the fastest frigs around and getting falloff bonus makes it excellent for autocannons now
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Turin
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Posted - 2005.09.15 19:26:00 -
[118]
Hey Tux. Your changes really suck. Just thought I would let you know.
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NoNameNewbie
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Posted - 2005.09.15 19:28:00 -
[119]
some good changes so far ...
but tbh i would like to see a dmg output nerf first because changed ships are cool but they still instadie :p
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Ticondrius
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Posted - 2005.09.15 19:28:00 -
[120]
Now that's constructive...
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