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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 58 post(s)
Mjnari	Posted - 2005.09.16 05:45:00 - [241] Edited by: Mjnari on 16/09/2005 05:46:41 Full Post Link Originally by: Siri Danae Edited by: Siri Danae on 16/09/2005 01:08:35 The Mark2 Project needs to be rethought. If this goes through then its the end of racial difference in EVE. Currently every race is built up independently of each other. Gallente specialize in drones and hybrids. Calderi do missiles and EW. Minmatar do... well, drones, missiles and projectiles and do it fast. Amarr use lasers and armor tanking. We've managed to balance this fairly well. The problem is that some ships aren't useful. We appreciate the devs trying to fix this, we really do. But what you've done is try to develop universal combat roles, and adjust the ships in some way to fit this. So what you get are dozens of ships that are just variations on a theme. We're not inspired. ... SIGNED.
Draka	Posted - 2005.09.16 05:51:00 - [242] Originally by: Mjnari Edited by: Mjnari on 16/09/2005 05:46:41 Full Post Link Originally by: Siri Danae Edited by: Siri Danae on 16/09/2005 01:08:35 The Mark2 Project needs to be rethought. If this goes through then its the end of racial difference in EVE. Currently every race is built up independently of each other. Gallente specialize in drones and hybrids. Calderi do missiles and EW. Minmatar do... well, drones, missiles and projectiles and do it fast. Amarr use lasers and armor tanking. We've managed to balance this fairly well. The problem is that some ships aren't useful. We appreciate the devs trying to fix this, we really do. But what you've done is try to develop universal combat roles, and adjust the ships in some way to fit this. So what you get are dozens of ships that are just variations on a theme. We're not inspired. ... SIGNED. SIGNED CEO The Cinnaban Order "Dedicated to a Free Minmatar Republic"
Brock Mc	Posted - 2005.09.16 06:01:00 - [243] Hey guys, as a caldari id like to say well at least we arent on the burning end. I agree with what Sorja says, why give a moa 4/4 when you encourage them to sheild tank or use ew, and also the kinetic missile bonus is not logical please can you clearify why only this type. Also with cali(min aswell but i will not say anything about them since i dont fly them) suffering from the launcher/gunnery skill problem id love to see them be able to at least tank/ew better then they do at present because they dont give good dps comparably. I'd also like to point out not many caldari specialized characters are crying about anything, well because we dont get anything. Yea the merlin looks great even better then the hawk, for shame. I would like ccp thoughts on their goals for each race. I am glad that i now dont have to train for the thorax. But like others said with all t1 cruisers the problem is not the ship its mainly the tanking, and that in itself is a whole other discussion. I personally would like to see a little more enthusiam from the devs about caldari we seem to be coming up short everytime, to be honest everyone cried about the missiles why because they were overpowered, and now everyone is crying about the nerf on the thorax i wonder why. CCP i like the idea of making roles for each ship, its just a very touchy subject, but i think with this thread each ship could evolve into a great asset to its given race. Thanks Brock
Razner Cerizo	Posted - 2005.09.16 06:23:00 - [244] Long live the ruppy! YUSSSSSSSSS
FalloutBoy	Posted - 2005.09.16 06:28:00 - [245] when and if you do look at battlecruisers make sure you give a hard look to the brutix, I feel it either needs about 100-150 more grid and about 50 more CPU or it needs a drone bay booste, otherwise its just way to hard to fit without uber skills. I know all the BCs could also use a slight fitting boost also, since they are supposed to be able to be supeiorior to cruisers, yet since they are such a ***** to fit, and the fact that cruisers are getting a fitting boost I don't see much more use for them in the future. need a sig? Gallery Contact me for more information
Kai Lae	Posted - 2005.09.16 06:35:00 - [246] Battlecruisers could use a SEVERE fitting boost, and the cyclone and brutix second bonuses need to be rethought.
Kyozoku	Posted - 2005.09.16 06:36:00 - [247] merlin's gonna be so sexy!
craptacular	Posted - 2005.09.16 06:42:00 - [248] So now races don't mean squat. Fine. As a Gallente, if i want to fly a drone cruiser, i'll go with an Arbitrator: more slots and bonus can't be wrong. If i want to use those hybrid skills i've trained for, i'll have to go for yet another blasterboat with the rax and its shiny upgraded grid to get enough dps & a chance to kill something. And we know they are so successful in combat. There's so many blasterthron around. Right? If those changes go in, please give (med) blasters some lub. Make their <2km optimal worth the risk. Because right here, right now, a rax can't outtank a maller and it's not going to get any better. So at least give us a chance to break it. WTB maller.
Paul123	Posted - 2005.09.16 06:57:00 - [249] Thorax * Dronebay decreased to 100m^3 * Poweroutput increased to 850MW 860 like the deimos would be nice :P. But still a good improvment imo.
DarK	Posted - 2005.09.16 07:12:00 - [250] So wait, now Ferox and Moa do the exact same thing? Variation ftw? Caracal changes are boring, the ship needs to do more damage, it isn't exactly the most versatile ship. Caldari weapons do jack all damage. Railguns aren't too bad for their range, but we have limited hardpoints for our weak weapons, limited low slots for gankage, and the Moa's secondary weapon's are missiles which do pathetic damage and are impossible to fit anyway. Finally, more medium slots on Caldari cruisers please, 6/5/3 is far better than 6/4/4. Allows for acceptable tanking/EW. The devs seem reluctant in giving ships heeps of med slots but have no problem giving ships heaps of lows.
Twirrim Notme	Posted - 2005.09.16 07:24:00 - [251] Can you not make changes to the Battlecruisers now? I'm glad the Thorax is getting this so-called nerf (extra PG will give more flexibility). Can you not contemplate stuff like PG boosts to the Brutix? Actually turn it into more of a valuable ship than the pathetic excuse for a battlecruiser it is at the moment (can't even fit a full rack of mediums on her without losing half the low slots to Reactor Controlls)
craptacular	Posted - 2005.09.16 07:45:00 - [252] Originally by: Paul123 Thorax * Dronebay decreased to 100m^3 * Poweroutput increased to 850MW 860 like the deimos would be nice :P. But still a good improvment imo. Ignoring slots and whatnot, and looking at resistances... Thorax: shield 0 / 60 / 40 / 20 armour 60 / 10 / 35 / 35 Deimos: shield 0 / 60 / 85 / 60 armour 60 / 10 / 83.75 / 67.5 A deimos can survive to unleash some blaster lovin' where a rax already has popped. Rax & deimos -> apples & oranges.
Marc Wiatt	Posted - 2005.09.16 07:47:00 - [253] [sigh] Great Job reducing variety and flexibility CCP. Can someone please explain to me why every ship has to fit into a silly "role"? The Exequror had a unique and very nice cargo-bonus. Why does it have to be a Logistics-Cruiser now? What about the people who used the Exequror FOR ITS ORIGINAL BONUS! Why does every MMO-Developer (including now CCP) its best to reduce variety and force people into templates? You want the "unused" ships to be used? Then give them a unique ability in their shipclass. When you make 4 ships with the same abilities the players will always choose the best ship among those 4 - the other 3 will remain unused. But if you give 4 ships 4 unique abilities all 4 ships will be used. Instead of making the Exequror just another ship no one uses - why not give it a cargo and an armor bonus. Thus making it a real trading cruiser. But that would have meant being a little creative - and if MMO-Devs do not like one thing its: creative thinking...
Hugh Ruka	Posted - 2005.09.16 08:25:00 - [254] Originally by: Veskrashen Originally by: Tuxford Assault The missile frigates, Inquisitor, Kestrel and Breacher have all lost their rate of fire bonus. Instead they get 5% damage per level to all missile damage types except for their race specific damage type where they get 10% per level. Will these changes also be carried forward to the respective T2 equivalents? In addition, will this change be applied to other dedicated missile boats such as the Caracal, Raven, or Cerberus? For the Caracal and Cerberus in particular, that might help balance them somewhat against other cruisers or HACs. I hope they will.. Just to check I understand this correctly, I will have a 5% missile damage bonud on the kestrel AND a 10% kinetic missile bonus on to of that ? I LIKE THAT !!! maybe the Condor could get the 5% all missile damage bonus instead of the kinetic one, and some cap. But the Condor will become a very nice ship with one more high slot.
cheru	Posted - 2005.09.16 08:31:00 - [255] Originally by: Darkana Jade ... Now for the incurus. Again falloff bonus to me is gimped and not useful. The tracking bonus was by far more useful and very much help it out working as blasterboat. With the tracking bonus it is the small fast frig killer with blasters. Again falloff just means less damage. Agree. With the changed bonus, if I fit small blaster on my Incursus, i will have then ~6km range instead of 2km? With rails and low gunnery skills (lvl3 or 4) atm, my main concern are the misses while orbiting, not range/falloff. ............. been there done that
Alex Harumichi	Posted - 2005.09.16 08:36:00 - [256] Originally by: NoLock LetsNegociate Will try to summarize changes that are not appreciated : Commenting mostly on Gallente ships, since they are the ones I have experience with: Quote: - Imicus : should be a mining frigate, - Navitas : should be the scout T1 gallente frig, Agreed. Quote: - Exequror : don't change cargo bonus, Very much agreed. The Exeq already has a role and is fairly popular in that role. This change would remove that role and make Exeq almost totally useless, pretty much opposite of what was the intention here. I appreciate the effort to make an "entry level" logistics ship, but do you really see someone flying an Exeq purely to give gangmates better tracking? I don't think so. How about giving the Exeq the old cargo bonus in addition to the new proposed tracking link bonus? I doubt that would make it overpowered jn any way, and would make it a very nice cargo/support cruiser (also being capable of carrying the gang's ammo, missiles etc on long ops). Quote: - Thorax : probably the most debated change. This had to be done. But Vexor need to be increased, - Vexor : need it became a real drone carrier. Many pep say increase drone bay, Agree that Thorax change was totally necessary (and I fly the things). About the Vexor, it should get something. The Arbitrator becomes a drone boat and an EW boat, the Vexor stays just a drone boat (with same drone capabilities as Arbi). So the "drone race" actually has a worse drone carrier than the Amarr? Suggestion: the Vexor medium hybrid damage bonus isn't too useful for a drone carrier. Change it into a second drone bonus (more range, more damage, whatever), to give the Vexor an edge in the drone ship role over the Arbi. Quote: General changes : - velocity bonus lose for matari ship sound like non sense. Matari ship are well known for hight speed, - Caldarii ships need bonuses for all missiles types, not only kinetics. 5% for all and 10% kinetic as been suggested several times. - scout ships don't need any damage bonuses. Agree on all of these. Oh, and as has been noted by many people, "tacker" frigates need at least 2 medslots, preferably 3. You don't tackle anything with just one med, and with 2 it's iffy. All tacklers should have 3 medslots imho. They don't need all that much else, but they do need 3 medslots (and speed, of course).
Alex Harumichi	Posted - 2005.09.16 08:42:00 - [257] Originally by: craptacular As a Gallente, if i want to fly a drone cruiser, i'll go with an Arbitrator: more slots and bonus can't be wrong. Excactly. The Arbi should not be equal to the Vexor in the drone department and in addition have better bonuses and slot layout. If I want to fly a drone cruiser, the Vexor should be my #1 choice (in t1 ships). Now, I actually quite like the new Arbi EW bonuses, please don't nerf them. But give the Vexor something to compensate, some useful drone-related bonus. Or something. At the moment, the new changes make the Arbi into a much better choice as a drone cruiser. Which is just wrong.
Techyon	Posted - 2005.09.16 08:43:00 - [258] ------
Peter Stuyvesant	Posted - 2005.09.16 08:44:00 - [259] Stats and bonuses might change before this hit TQ That's the best bit of this entire thread. I can only hope they do reconsider...a very ill-thought out set of changes. CCP, do you actually play this game?
Pshychotic Pyro	Posted - 2005.09.16 09:31:00 - [260] Why take the drone bay down?? its the life of the thorax :( not happy
Madswede	Posted - 2005.09.16 09:35:00 - [261] Edited by: Madswede on 16/09/2005 09:39:47 I fail to see the point of these changes. In my mind the T1 ships are not perfectly balanced but they are definately good enough. I do not understand why CCP have to change things that work (example: market font). Some ships are getting better and some ships are getting worse. Fine, but was this needed? Probe: This is a looter, fast hauler, and a miner for the newbies. It is not a PvP ship in any way and it is fine as it is. Don't change it. Minmatar ships are fast and fragile. Thats the way it is supposed to be. Don't change this. The bonuses suggested for Rifter and Vigil - the most useful Minmatar PvP frigates - are totally useless and will make these ships much worse. Racial differentiation is important and you are throwing it away bit by bit. Madswede is very unhappy.
The Cosmopolite	Posted - 2005.09.16 09:38:00 - [262] Originally by: Alex Harumichi Agree that Thorax change was totally necessary (and I fly the things). About the Vexor, it should get something. The Arbitrator becomes a drone boat and an EW boat, the Vexor stays just a drone boat (with same drone capabilities as Arbi). So the "drone race" actually has a worse drone carrier than the Amarr? Suggestion: the Vexor medium hybrid damage bonus isn't too useful for a drone carrier. Change it into a second drone bonus (more range, more damage, whatever), to give the Vexor an edge in the drone ship role over the Arbi. Pretty good idea. People have to let go of the idea the Vexor will get a drone bay increase - it won't happen. The thing is a light and medium drone carrier. Putting heavies in it just makes the drone control bonus a bit superfluous with a drone bay equal to/less than 250m3 and there is no chance it would get a bay bigger than a BS really. But drone damage bonus? Yeah that works. It would have to be Gallente flavoured and as thermal drones are 'Gallente', I guess something like 5% thermal drone damage per level would be nice and not at all overpowered. Cosmo Jericho Fraction
d'hofren	Posted - 2005.09.16 09:42:00 - [263] Where to start. Minmatar Speed - Why? Minmatar Frigs and to some extent cruisers rely on speed to make up for thier inability to field a decent tank. Is this really though to make them over powered? Judging from the post that worked out the speeds here we appear to get around a 5% bonus over most other races figures. That's not much. The old bonus tied to friggy skill level worked well. Those who wanted to use speed could invest in the training. Removing the speed bonus in this way forces the dev's to pop a blanket boost onto all the matari frigs which cant be that great otherwise every one will train up to min frig level whatever to use the tackler. The Breacher - Why on earth did it loose the speed bonus it had those few patches ago. Bring that back and let us use it as a slightly undepowered missile speed boat. It's made of paper afterall, it's not like it won't pop in seconds when webbed or nossed down to normal speeds. bellicose - No No No No, It gains a bonus to tracking painters and remains made of paper with no ability to tank. IMHO the Black bird and whichever ship gets the tracking disruptor have a huge advantage over the bellicose. They can actually prevent incoming fire. The bellicose, (if given the proposed bonus), will become the new fleet primary target. People will look at the overview, see a few geddons, a few tempests and a bellicose and think. "aha, snipers and a target painter, call the painter first. Make the thing usefull and not a one trick pony. xtra mid slot and mwd bonus maybe? --- Originally by: Winterblink It's an online game. Online games are always populated at people who look at their wood elf and whine that everyone else's dagger is bigger than theirs.
Alex Harumichi	Posted - 2005.09.16 09:59:00 - [264] Originally by: The Cosmopolite But drone damage bonus? Yeah that works. It would have to be Gallente flavoured and as thermal drones are 'Gallente', I guess something like 5% thermal drone damage per level would be nice and not at all overpowered. Cosmo That would work for me. 15 hammerhead II's with an additional +25% damage bonus would make Vexor the most damaging t1 drone cruiser, while not being overpowered.
Elaine Threepwood	Posted - 2005.09.16 10:08:00 - [265] Removing all the minmatar speed bonuses What are the minmatar frigs good at now then?
Pepperami	Posted - 2005.09.16 10:08:00 - [266] Originally by: Yal XianKun I'm sorry, I don't follow this. I'm Caldari, that means my race is the best at missiles and EW. I have to watch out for Minmatar because they are the fastest with great projectiles. Amarr are the best armour tankers and laser specialists. Gallente are the best with blasters and drones. So my question is, why do these changes not reflect these in the slightest? I have never flown, nor intend to fly, a Minmatar ship, but I do know that their single hope lies in the fact that they can move so quick that they can bend light. I see the changes as totally nuking that. Furthermore, why is EW being taken from the Caldari and given to other races? It's our area of specialty. I have to agree with this poster, diversity amongst races FTW, make everyone the same(/very similer) and it's boring/worthless training other races
Arud	Posted - 2005.09.16 10:12:00 - [267] Originally by: Marc Wiatt [sigh] Great Job reducing variety and flexibility CCP. Can someone please explain to me why every ship has to fit into a silly "role"? The Exequror had a unique and very nice cargo-bonus. Why does it have to be a Logistics-Cruiser now? What about the people who used the Exequror FOR ITS ORIGINAL BONUS! Why does every MMO-Developer (including now CCP) its best to reduce variety and force people into templates? You want the "unused" ships to be used? Then give them a unique ability in their shipclass. When you make 4 ships with the same abilities the players will always choose the best ship among those 4 - the other 3 will remain unused. But if you give 4 ships 4 unique abilities all 4 ships will be used. Instead of making the Exequror just another ship no one uses - why not give it a cargo and an armor bonus. Thus making it a real trading cruiser. But that would have meant being a little creative - and if MMO-Devs do not like one thing its: creative thinking... woorddd look at the t2 business, all types serve the same role, there is always one or two uber ships, one or two medium ships and one or two that suck people simply wont use the ones that suck and people only use the medium ones for training or roleplay reasons Race should matter.
Linia	Posted - 2005.09.16 10:21:00 - [268] WHY THE CRAP CHANGE THE THORAX!? It has been fine all the way and there is NO reason to change it! Bye bye drone users Droneskills is now only used on dominix, no other ships is drones good at anymore. CCP changes sux. Currently Training: Heavy Drone Operation V /Rank5/

Tuxford	Posted - 2005.09.16 10:23:00 - [269] I'm getting some nice feedback here, thanks. I wanted to post here sooner but was a bit busy last night. Some things I just want to clarify and justify. First faction cruisers and frigates are getting a look at too. As do Battlecruisers and Destroyers. Actually the Battlecruisers do have new stats. Prophecy Powergrid 1300MW Ferox Powergrid 1000MW Brutix Powergrid 1150MW CPU output 425tf Armor repair bonus increased to 7.5% per level Cyclone Powergrid 1210MW CPU output 425tf Shield boost bonus increased to 7.5% per level Thorax drone bay reduction Let's take a look at the numbers. Thorax with 5 medium pulse laser does 56 hitpoints/sec. A maller with 5 heavy pulse lasers does 69 hitpoints/sec. The difference is 13 hitpoints/sec. Now guess what the damage output of 8 Ogre I drones are. I'll give it away it's 140.8 hitpoints/sec. Surely drones have their drawbacks but this difference in damage output is a bit extreme. Even with when the drone bay has been halved Thorax gets quite an extra damage output from it's drones, and is still a much better drone carrier than every other assault ship except for the Vexor. Minmatar speed reduction I forgot to increase the Probe and Vigil speed when I removed the velocity bonus. They are now the fastest ships within their class. The Velocity bonus was removed from all the Minmatar frigates, it was just creating too much imbalance. Mining ships Forgot that the mining frigs get a 20% bonus to mining yield per level which should make them worth getting as a first mining ship. They also get 5% cargo per level. Missile rate of fire bonus removed Too high ROF is bad for the server so those bonuses have been changed to damage. _______________

Incub	Posted - 2005.09.16 10:24:00 - [270] Just for people that haven't read through the entire Thread Most disagreements are posted about: - Thorax getting its dronebay cut in half. if you feel you really need to comment on this and only this please do so in this --> 100m3 dronebay on thorax Thread. Lots of people are stating they agree disagree with these changes and it makes this thread a pain to read. - race division, though minmatar probably stands out as losing all its velocity bonusses. I'm not saying you can't disagree about the thorax, but instead of only critize post some alternative idea's. Lets just help Tux with this instead of just critize him. Incub out 250's are definitely more versatile, but All the cool kids are using 280's.

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