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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 58 post(s)
The Cosmopolite	Posted - 2005.09.15 19:29:00 - [121] Edited by: The Cosmopolite on 15/09/2005 19:30:01 As a cruiser user, EW specialist and Amarr and Min ship fan, I like these changes. Concerns expressed about the Arbi severely underestimate the power of tracking disruptors and with an extra mid the ship will be very interesting to fly. It'll still be able to field a moderate tank and there is some balance in cap tightness to be honest (and yes I use it a lot). People also consistently underestimate the value of logistics ships and the Amarr now have a very cheap and potent little support ship in the Augoror. While I laugh at the people who thought the Vexor had any chance whatever of increasing its drone bay (while keeping +1 drone control), it'll be interesting to see how the rax fares now: I suspect quite well actually. Tier 2 and 3 cruisers in general, good stuff. Extra fitting resources will make some of those old hulls shine. (btw Omen with a launcher? Odd but I like it.) EW cruisers in general: great stuff. Amarr and Min got the shaft in this regard during the EW changes and it's great to see the balance re-dressed. Fair enough that Cal and Gall remain the better EW races but the others needed some EW cruiser capability and I think you've hit the right balance. There's stuff I don't like in there too (eg the Vigil bonus swap.. well Min frig changes in general actually) but at the end of the day: so what? There's enough good that I say, nice job CCP, if the stats remain roughly as they are. Cosmo Jericho Fraction
Turin	Posted - 2005.09.15 19:29:00 - [122] Originally by: Ticondrius Now that's constructive... Not really, but there is so much wrong there I dont know where to start. So I thought I would just cover it all in one general broad statement.
mirel yirrin	Posted - 2005.09.15 19:31:00 - [123] N0-o0-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o YOU NERFED MY PRECIOUS THORAX! /me bursts into hysterical tears --------------------------------- The Comments and/or Actions above in noway indicate the veiws or actions of my corporation.
mirel yirrin	Posted - 2005.09.15 19:31:00 - [124] Seriously everything else is fine, Leave the damm thorax alone! PLEASE! --------------------------------- The Comments and/or Actions above in noway indicate the veiws or actions of my corporation.
Jan Ors	Posted - 2005.09.15 19:36:00 - [125] Changes: Different? Yes. Good? In Places. Bad? In Places. Balanced? Don't make me laugh. Work Left To Do: À Need to equalise slot amounts via other balancing. À Balance frigate masses (lower most of them a LOT), balance frigate speeds. À Increase and balance most cruiser drone bays. And that's the really obvious stuff you're not or barely touching at all. But then again, why should I care anymore? I've been complaining about the inherent inbalances in Tech I ships for so long, I've moved on to the Tech II FOTM. Do what you will; but it won't be anywhere near balanced any cowboy way it'll get done. ________ My Mk2 Project Suggestions.
Menelak Faf	Posted - 2005.09.15 19:39:00 - [126] Why is the Amarr frigate faster than the Matari frigate.. when we center around speed? Love the change to rupture though.
Stainless	Posted - 2005.09.15 19:41:00 - [127] Edited by: Stainless on 15/09/2005 19:43:17 Quote: The Probe is large compared to most Minmatar frigates and is considered a good cargo-runner and a decent miner. Unusual for a Minmatar ship, its hard outer coating makes it difficult to destroy, while the limited weapon hardpoints force it to rely on fighter assistance if engaged in combat. Special Ability: 5% bonus cargo capacity and max velocity per skill level. -60% mining laser capacitor use Sorry, just put that there as im having a little trouble locating the word 'Scout' in the description... Or is it the devs idea to totally change the racial traits of the Minmatar as well as changing all the roles for their ships..
Veskrashen	Posted - 2005.09.15 19:43:00 - [128] Originally by: Tuxford Assault The missile frigates, Inquisitor, Kestrel and Breacher have all lost their rate of fire bonus. Instead they get 5% damage per level to all missile damage types except for their race specific damage type where they get 10% per level. Will these changes also be carried forward to the respective T2 equivalents? In addition, will this change be applied to other dedicated missile boats such as the Caracal, Raven, or Cerberus? For the Caracal and Cerberus in particular, that might help balance them somewhat against other cruisers or HACs.
Gort	Posted - 2005.09.15 19:45:00 - [129] Tuxford, I must comment abuot the Matari changes. 1. The Probe is a noob miner, and a small, fast cargo, courier ship for all. It doen't fit in the class you are trying to force it into. 2. The Burst is not a mining ship of any kind whatsoever. 3. Tackling: That's the Vigil, not the Slasher. 4. Speed: Reducing the Minnie speeds, particularly on Rifter, Vigil and Stabber, is not a good idea at all. They all rely on speed to be competitive. Take it away and they are even more vulnerable than they are now. 5. The Bellicose definitely needs something. I haven't seen one in space in over a year. It's just too fragile (see below). All: Cruisers need more base armor -- or something. They just die way too easy/fast. Cruisers should not be that delicate. As it is I think they can all be one BS volly popped with regularity, and that's a bit over the edge. My 0.02. Regards, Gort
Jim Raynor	Posted - 2005.09.15 19:47:00 - [130] Originally by: Menelak Faf Why is the Amarr frigate faster than the Matari frigate.. when we center around speed? Love the change to rupture though. Probably because it has 1 mid slot ------ FERRET DEMOCRACY
Ticondrius	Posted - 2005.09.15 19:51:00 - [131] Sometimes I think the devs throw out posts like this for entertainment. It must be incredibly funny to watch us tear each other apart over opinions from their point of view.
Ivan Aesgareth	Posted - 2005.09.15 19:57:00 - [132] Originally by: Veskrashen Originally by: Tuxford Assault The missile frigates, Inquisitor, Kestrel and Breacher have all lost their rate of fire bonus. Instead they get 5% damage per level to all missile damage types except for their race specific damage type where they get 10% per level. Will these changes also be carried forward to the respective T2 equivalents? In addition, will this change be applied to other dedicated missile boats such as the Caracal, Raven, or Cerberus? For the Caracal and Cerberus in particular, that might help balance them somewhat against other cruisers or HACs. I hope this change will be implemented as you suggest. It would help the Cerberus become a more viable choice for PvP.
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.09.15 20:05:00 - [133] Vigil - Max velocity bonus replaced with 5% small projectile damage bonus per level Whu? The Vigil is going to LOSE ability as a tackler and overall usefulness if you remove it's speed bonus :/ Rifter - Max velocity bonus replaced with 10% accuracy falloff per level Again, Whu? If anything, you're overpowering it with the other changes, it DOSN'T need a power boost to arty as WELL. The speed bonus keeps it unique, and speed is what makes minmatar frigs worth flying in the first place. * Exequror - Bonuses replaced with 150% bonus to range and 5% bonus to effect of tracking links per level Okay, now I know this has to be a joke. This is a cruiser which has a unique, USEFUL role and you want to remove that to make it a naf tracking link cruiser which'll be used once per blue moon? It allready HAS a role. Leave it alone! The the Arbitrator and Vexor are DRONE cruisers. kthx. "Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted."
Brutus Duran	Posted - 2005.09.15 20:08:00 - [134] So, you're gonna transform the Vigil from a tackler to an EW ship and to celebrate this fact you're gonna give it a weapon damage bonus? Have you ever heard the phrase 'if it ain't broke don't fix it'. The Vigil ain't broke. Please don't fix it.
FraXy	Posted - 2005.09.15 20:09:00 - [135] Giving the Arbitrator a 4.th mid over a Vexor is not right. But the tracking disruptor bonus seems very nice! Since u hit Thorax with nerfbat give the Vexor 200m3 dronebay and give it a 4.th midslot, so it will be kinda a mini-Ishtar. Executioner can`t be considered a tackle-frig since no-one fits a scrambler on it. go with original plan and give it 2 mids. And OMG the Punisher... /me logs on to Eve to stock up 100 Punishers... ---------------------------------------- Honor and Serve, 'till u Betray and Die!
Nafri	Posted - 2005.09.15 20:18:00 - [136] Originally by: FraXy Giving the Arbitrator a 4.th mid over a Vexor is not right. But the tracking disruptor bonus seems very nice! Since u hit Thorax with nerfbat give the Vexor 200m3 dronebay and give it a 4.th midslot, so it will be kinda a mini-Ishtar. Executioner can`t be considered a tackle-frig since no-one fits a scrambler on it. go with original plan and give it 2 mids. And OMG the Punisher... /me logs on to Eve to stock up 100 Punishers... Vexor would be heavily overpowered with 4 mids and 200m¦ dronebay Your bla bla hit bla bla for bla bla damage. Wanna have some bubu now?
Zendor	Posted - 2005.09.15 20:22:00 - [137] Min speed - Agree with all the others on the Min speed bonuses, they definitely shouldn't be going. They're the one thing that helps Min ships survive having their appalling proj tracking. Probe - this is the automatic first upgrade for most Min players for mining and couriers...Don't fly one now but please be careful with this ship as it seems fine. Vigil - damage bonus useless, I don't want to fight in it but avoid being hit and deploy the electronics, could the vigil or slasher not have the scouting bonuses? Rupture - like this change. Extra grid a needed upgrade to allow them to be used at range - saves everyone using the gimpy 650s. But what cpu did you mean to type? Tbh think the Min frigs and cruisers were largely ok - the Min ship that's least use is the cyclone (or the jag which is just a lesser Claw). Think the idea of giving the ships more focused roles is good in itself but the changes aren't necessarily going to mean people use them for that. Why not take a poll of the roles players use each ship type for and then specialise from their? And...I may have said this :) ...please don't reduce Min ships speeds - it's their characteristic quality, like Gallente drones, Cal missiles, Amarr tanks etc.. Z
FraXy	Posted - 2005.09.15 20:23:00 - [138] Originally by: Nafri Originally by: FraXy Giving the Arbitrator a 4.th mid over a Vexor is not right. But the tracking disruptor bonus seems very nice! Since u hit Thorax with nerfbat give the Vexor 200m3 dronebay and give it a 4.th midslot, so it will be kinda a mini-Ishtar. Executioner can`t be considered a tackle-frig since no-one fits a scrambler on it. go with original plan and give it 2 mids. And OMG the Punisher... /me logs on to Eve to stock up 100 Punishers... Vexor would be heavily overpowered with 4 mids and 200m¦ dronebay 200m3 dronebay might be a bit over the top, but the 4.th midslot belongs to the Vexor and not Arbitrator. Gallente follow the line of almost equal numbers of mids/lows while amarr is lowslot oriented. ---------------------------------------- Honor and Serve, 'till u Betray and Die!
Siri Danae	Posted - 2005.09.15 20:26:00 - [139] 1. Min frigs need speed bonuses... this thing is just wrong. This was an unwarranted and unwanted change. 2. Please, please, please rethink the Gallente assault cruiser changes, from scratch. You're weakening their strong drone combat cruiser without giving the 'true' drone cruiser any real adjustments to bring it in line with other popular assault cruisers. 3. Imicus/Navitas need to be switched. This is obvious to everyone. I mean, everything about the Navitas, practical, ascetic and even the name cries 'scout'. ------ I generally assume the following: 1. 95% of Empire Carebears don't get 0.0 PVPers. 2. 95% of 0.0 PVPers don't get Empire Carebears. 3. 100% of Ore Thieves steal just to upset the Miners.
Ishbuanium	Posted - 2005.09.15 20:27:00 - [140] i like my exqueror cargo bonus...
Jacob Majestic	Posted - 2005.09.15 20:27:00 - [141] Edited by: Jacob Majestic on 15/09/2005 20:30:48 I'm sort of annoyed that the Merlin is going to be basically a Hawk with better shield resists for PvP... I really hope this is a prelude to giving the Hawk a 5th mid. Also, I know that this next point is going to be lost in the static of this thread, but here it is: DENERF CALDARI MASS. The Caracal and the Moa have paper mache armor but still handle like bricks compared to every other assault cruiser.
Spuki	Posted - 2005.09.15 20:30:00 - [142] You just cant increase launcher power requirements and decrease a caracals powergrid. I agree with most of you changes, but i dont not agree for the moa and the caracal. All other assault cruisers get a nice boost, except moa and caracal which already have been weaker than its counterparts of the other races. We really need more powergrid on the moa and some further improvements for the caracal.
Deka Kador	Posted - 2005.09.15 20:31:00 - [143] Is the Gila going to get the shield resists like the Moa?
Tsual	Posted - 2005.09.15 20:34:00 - [144] Originally by: Menelak Faf Why is the Amarr frigate faster than the Matari frigate.. when we center around speed? Love the change to rupture though. As far as the background "justification is" it was build for catching fast minmatar fleets. Though 20 m/s more speed is a lot, perhaps increase executioneers mass or decrease slashers mass so that slasher lower armor/structure/shield get's equald by executioner getting less increase of speed through ab/mwd. Executioner compared to all 4 tacklers has highest speed, highest structure and armor of all 4 and only lower shields then condor, though lower mass then Atron and Condor.(equal to slasher...) Now come on with only 1 midslot that is more a t1 hunter/killer then an t1 tackler. -------------------------------------- Haanem ulwei, utnazhiram Hal'sha'roh mahiraam Hor'thul. The Universe is everything, the creation Hal'shah and the destruction Hor'thul.
Midnighter	Posted - 2005.09.15 20:41:00 - [145] Hi, interesting changes, but there are some that I REALLY don't understand and do NOT agree with. Flying Minmatar ships, I can not comment on the other races but I observe: 1.The Probe is to be a "scout" but is made slower, still has a huge cargo bay and still has a -60% mining laser cap use. This is not a tasty scout. Why not keep the speed and eat the cargo bay and drop the mining laser help? Makes more sense to have a smaller, lighter, faster scouting vessel. 2.The Slasher is to be a "Tackler". Now, I like to believe that one of the key abilities of a tackler is SPEED. This ship loses its speed bonus and gains a damage bonus. It is now a baby Rifter. Why not keep the speed and tracking bonuses? With some scrambling/webbing it makes for a sensable fast tackler. I have to look and wonder why all the minmatar ships lose their velocity bonus. Is this just because the lightning fast Minmatar fleet, REPUTED for its quick hit and run tactics is TOO fast for the game? Then why is made slower in every category to let other races supercede it? Why is the fastest assault fleet in the Empire no longer that? Makes no sense. These changes have no given justifications for each area. Just looks random and almost stupid. Yay for balance!
Yal XianKun	Posted - 2005.09.15 20:58:00 - [146] I'm sorry, I don't follow this. I'm Caldari, that means my race is the best at missiles and EW. I have to watch out for Minmatar because they are the fastest with great projectiles. Amarr are the best armour tankers and laser specialists. Gallente are the best with blasters and drones. So my question is, why do these changes not reflect these in the slightest? I have never flown, nor intend to fly, a Minmatar ship, but I do know that their single hope lies in the fact that they can move so quick that they can bend light. I see the changes as totally nuking that. Furthermore, why is EW being taken from the Caldari and given to other races? It's our area of specialty.
Arte	Posted - 2005.09.15 20:59:00 - [147] Originally by: Tuxford Stats and bonuses might change before this hit TQ so give your input here Well, you asked, so here are a few. Although I like a lot of the bonuses and changes your application of bonuses with a view to proposed roles don't match up Why are tackling and scouting ships being given damage bonuses Surely the tackling ships could be given a range benefit for warp scrams or webbers for instance, or even just extra speed. Surely the scouting ships should keep their speed bonuses (vigil being a case in point) when the primary role is speed and manoeuverability and not damage dealing. Some ships already have an accepted role, such as the Exequeror which is widely used as a heavy cargo cruiser. Why change the role of some ships to fill a niche you're making for it? when other vastly more underused ships of the same race/class could fill that role instead, leaving what's not broken, as fixed. There is a lot of call for ships that have had long standing and widely accepted calls for improvements that no-one tends to disagree with. The vexor would be an example of this, where it's a drone ship and little else. Increased drone bay wouldn't be amiss here considering it is the drone ship now, of the drone race. Concepts like "Amarr = powerhouse, Minmatar = Fast and nimble" are accepted and people make their career/character/fighting-playing style based on those concepts. Changing those concepts is a dodgy area to venture into, such as taking speed bonuses from minmatar for instance. It's a massive undertaking you've got Tux, and I'm sure you're not taking it lightly. But tread carefully and listen to these 5+ pages as a lot of good points are made in them. It would be nice that it wouldn't take another 50 forum posts to un-nerf the changes because the gaming population weren't listened to. (and please give the Caldari some love, they've got their martydom points now).
Hague Starcatcher	Posted - 2005.09.15 21:04:00 - [148] Originally by: Tuxford [Incursus Poweroutput increased to 34MW Max velocity increased to 300m/s CPU output decreased to 110tf Capacitor capacity increased to 260 Tracking bonus replaced with 10% accuracy falloff per level I'd rather the tristan keep its tracking bonus. I like to go really fast, and I perfer rails to blasters.
Ramblin Man	Posted - 2005.09.15 21:04:00 - [149] Just to sum up on the Minmatar front... (all speed numbers assume lvl 3 frigate - reasonable) Frigates Breacher +1 PG +10 CPU +5% damage per level to all missile damage types except for race specific damage type where 10% per level -5% missile launcher rate of fire per level Okay, fair enough. Full light missile damage at ~32km with reasonable new missile skills. Enough said. 11.1% faster than other races' fastest missile boat (Inquisitor) Burst +1 Med Slot +40 CPU Probe v. Burst debated in other comments 21.5% (!) faster than other races' fastest miner (Tormentor and Navitas) Probe +95 CPU +5% bonus to scan probe duration per level -5% bonus to max velocity per level Probe v. Burst debated in other comments 5.3% slower than other races' fastest scout (Heron) Rifter +2 PG +20 m/s max velocity +10% accuracy falloff per level -5% bonus to max velocity per level Imo, a fair adjustment. Yes, that's a -25 m/s+ effective speed change, but with an additional high slot over the Incursus, which in turn has an additional medium slot, there's no real reason for it to be that much faster. 6.7% faster than other races' fastest turret assault (Incursus) Slasher +60 m/s max velocity +5% projectile damage per level -5% bonus to max velocity per level This is a speed boost for lvl 3 frigate users (+10.5 m/s), a slight nerf for lvl 4 frigate users (-6 m/s), and a nerf for lvl 5 frigate users (-22.5 m/s). Given the reasonable numbers, I assume you want people to go inty if they're going to train up frigate. Fair enough. Why the projectile damage bonus though - is autocannon dps really that low? Trying to optimize it to gank industrials? I'd rather see something more unique for the t1 tacklers - maybe a 2% signature radius reduction per level? Oh, and when you rebalance the Executioner for this role (which I agree should be done), don't forget to make sure you don't relatively gimp the Slasher. 4.9% slower than other races' fastest tackler (Executioner) Vigil +5% projectile damage per level []-5% bonus to max velocity per level (too tired to find code error) Yes, it's a 46.5 m/s+ nerf. However, as seen below, there's still plenty of speed on the Vigil. Again though, why the damage bonus?* 19.2% faster than other races' fastest EWAR (Maulus) I was more than a little worried going through the list initially and seeing all the speed nerfs the Minmatar ships were going to be getting. Looking at the now though, I understand the reasoning for some of them (Rifter, Vigil), but a few don't make sense. Why is the Burst so damned fast? Why is the Probe so damned slow? Why do the Slasher and Vigil get damage bonuses?
Reverend John	Posted - 2005.09.15 21:07:00 - [150] Someone take the ***** pipe from the dev's please

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