The way i see it there are really 2 options.

1) fix lasers so they are more in line fitting and cap usage wise to other weapons.

Or

2) buff beam laser damage by a lot.... and give every amarr ship a huge cap booster bay. Make tachs out DPS everything sub cap while they are firing. Also have it so the apoc is the only bs that can fit 8 Tachs barely with no power grid mods/ implants

I see a lot of people that want even better fitting and cap use out of lasers but personally i think it might be neat if instead they just got some more tracking/range and a little more damage instead. So people using non lasers use tracking computers to compensate for range while amarr use cap rechargers so they can fire, and in lows you use fitting mods to fit the big dps guns instead of using damage mods to make you big guns high dps.

A total re-work of all lasers to work in this fashion is probably way out of scope for odyssey but it would be nice if weapons systems weren't always missiles + bcu's and possibly painters or guns + heat sink* + tracking enhancer/computer.

I figure if they could get lasers + cap + pwg fittings to be about equal to other turrets in current set ups it would go a good ways against the ever so dreaded homogenization.

Beam Lasers have a better tracking then rails

that better archetype tracking leads to better overall bonus from TE or TC or similar.

Beam Lasers have more dps then rails

Beam Lasers have more alpha dmg then rails

Beam Lasers need less ammo then rails

i guess Railguns have the advantage for hitting better in falloff and need less cap and PG, but thats all.

and now you all want lesser cap and PG ? that would be unbalanced if you ask me

btw i hope the medium railgun info comes out soon. cant wait for knowing what ccp plans to do with them.

the 1200 dps Beam Laser Nightmares Just laughts at my Railgun Hyperion/Kronos in 0.0 farming

you are kidding right ?

1. Tachyon Beams have a Far better Tracking then 425 Rails
2. Zero Reload Time
3. with T1 Crystals Zero Costs
2. Tachyon Beams can reach 1000 DPS with T1 Crystals on a Abaddon
3. Abaddon has 26250 powergrid. Hyperion has 19687. you think about that ?
4. The PG difference between Apoc and Mega is similar
5. Amarr ships has a better cap
6. the T2 and Faction Crystals are Cheaper for the number of Shots in Compare to Hybrid ammo.

so you have 18% more dps, more tracking, less reload time, less ammo cost, more alpha dmg, and ships with more PG and Cap, and just want more advantages ?

then please cry for a railgun buff too. because if ccp listen on you, railguns will be outclassed.


the 1200 dps Beam Laser Nightmares Just laughts at my Railgun Hyperion/Kronos in 0.0 farming

Better compare that to a vindicator that's at least a Pirate faction ship, too....

Fine. Make the powergrid the same on Amarr ships as other races after you reduce the fitting by 30% on lasers.

Since you didn't read this thread I'll sum up. Megabeams are the equivalent of the 425mm Rail except they require 3x the power to run. Even with better capacitors (Not really anymore but that's another argument) the ships cap breaks just firing the guns. Most if not all Gallete ships can fit and run a MWD (even with the cap penalty) and still fire all their guns. You prolly still can't see it so I'll simplify even further.

Amarr ships break their cap with their guns. Not MWD and armor repper and guns. JUST THE GUNS.

Now let me address 6. Cheaper ammo ... in PVP you can carry 500 rounds with rails if you want. I ALWAYS have to carry my crystals. When you die in PVP you lose maybe 1 million in ammo. When I die in PVP I lost all my crystals typically around 12 mil in crystals since I can't break my T2 ammo stack into 50 or 500 shots.

you are kidding right ?

1. Tachyon Beams have a Far better Tracking then 425 Rails
2. Zero Reload Time
3. with T1 Crystals Zero Costs
2. Tachyon Beams can reach 1000 DPS with T1 Crystals on a Abaddon
3. Abaddon has 26250 powergrid. Hyperion has 19687. you think about that ?
4. The PG difference between Apoc and Mega is similar
5. Amarr ships has a better cap
6. the T2 and Faction Crystals are Cheaper for the number of Shots in Compare to Hybrid ammo.

1) Not equal to other races but at least in the same hemisphere (not DOUBLE the PG and TRIPLE the cap usage as rails).

2) Like I said above, they've tried that and eventually they nerfed laser damage back in line with other weapons but didn't change their fitting. Will likely not happen again as they'd have to make every Amarr ship be 8 turret or severely nerf the PG of Nightmares and Paladins.

1. Only about 40% better Tracking, thats only 1 TC
2. No, you need to click, thats more then zero seconds
3. Constant cost not Zero
2. You cant fit 8 tachyon beams on a Abaddon, you need Fitting Mods for that
3. You can fit your 425mm Rail on a Hyperion, no one cares of the difference, if you can fit it
4. Same as 3
5. Only about 5% more Cap, but the Cap usage is Huge
6. With T2 Crystals you have about 1000 Shots, so its 1000ISK per Shot. Faction about 4000 Shots, thats 250 ISK per shot. No advandage on T2, only on Fraction Ammo

Megabeams are the equivalent of the best railguns ? dont make me laught. Big smile

then give me railguns with 18% more dps and higher PG and Cap consume. otherwise no balance without issues for the Tachyons. Blink

and btw, ammo is not just for pvp ;)

3. zero with T1 ammunition that is the most use for pve with a hyperion/megathron because faction/T2 ammo on a 8 turret ship in pve will make more loss then win.

@ Girl. after odyssey you can fit them on your Paladin.



1. thats your argument ? then give every gallente ship an extra mid slot for the TC. thanks
2. after 40 shots i got 5 second reload time with 425 rails. you got zero reload time after 40 shots.
3. zero with T1 ammunition that is the most use for pve with a hyperion/megathron because faction/T2 ammo on a 8 turret ship in pve will make more loss then win.
4. fitting mod or imps for 18% More DPS and better Tracking ? YES I WANT !!!!
5. if you dont want to fit an modul that increase your PG, then use Mega beams.
6. i cant do more DPS with 425 rails then you, even if you take Mega Beams. the balance is given.
7. the megabeams has a bigger disadvantage vs the 425mm rails because of the cap, but FAR more tracking !
8. lol faction ammunition for 250isk per shot ? you dont know the market. T1 Antimatter Charge L cost 220-250 isk per shot actually

Thinks the Hyperion still has 8 turrets...

Seriously, stop the lying. You can't post on the Energy Turrets rewrite thread and then ignore the Gallente changes halfway down the screen.

i help your argumentation in fact with that

my main argument is the dps

Kronos = 441 dps
old hyperion with 8 x 425 Tech 2 and Antimatter Charge L = 441 dps
New hyperion = 360 dps
Abaddon/Nightmare/paladin = 502 dps

They are about par, regardless of whatever numbers you can fabricate.

made my day

mathematics is on my side. over and out.

The Tachyon Beam laser is a unique weapon and should be balance separately.

then give gallente a unique weapon with separately balance and 18% more dps

then give gallente a unique weapon with separately balance and 18% more dps

It's also interesting to see that when ever I mention the balance on medium and small weapons none of these Gallente players want to talk about it.
Because it's so obviously broken and to their advantage they have nothing to say.

Tell Mr Antimater Gallente player .. How come my MEDIUM guns, which are basically identical to yours, cost 3x the cap of your medium weapons?

Explain to me how I'm going to use these weapons on the new ships that have 0 cap use bonuses but identical capacitors to the rest of the races?

The main focus is... PVP shoudl usually not take that long that you get zeroed of cap. And PVE is no measurement to balance (at least not in the same order as to protude into PVP effects).

Some ammar ships might end up with capacitor issues, but that is not fully generalized rule. Pulses can be used fairly easily on medium scale PVP without much of a cap problem.

I for once will just use a cap injector in my apoc .. because I already had to use it anyway!!!! So not so much changed for that ship PVP wise.

Ok, so what's wrong about giving Amarr the ability to actually have better cap? Will it somehow unbalance pvp?

Pretty sure it won't. So if the main focus is pvp, as you mentioned, then what's the harm of giving them better cap? Or less than a 5 slot tax for cap and fitting?

[Edit: This is a lot of what people here are trying to say. Why is giving Amarr players a better quality of life with their cap and fittings such a freaking problem?