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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
Rented
Hunter Heavy Industries
59
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Posted - 2013.04.12 17:38:00 -
[31] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Jezza McWaffle wrote:Fozzie. I love you. Marry me or else...
*cheekily*
Maybe 15% bonus on powergrid reduction for Tachyons? FOZZIE? FOZZIE?!
He been cheatin' on you. |
Mr Floydy
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
68
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Posted - 2013.04.12 17:38:00 -
[32] - Quote
Epic change :) |
NinjaStyle
hirr RAZOR Alliance
6
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Posted - 2013.04.12 17:40:00 -
[33] - Quote
Finaly Tachyons might be useable! we will see! keep posting more Eve is getting more and more Real :D |
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
726
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Posted - 2013.04.12 17:42:00 -
[34] - Quote
Naso Aya wrote:Garviel Tarrant wrote:
Also i'm quite sure an Apoc with scorch will still outdps an apoc with tachs at 70 km.. =/ (WHILE being able to fit things like a tank)
Seriously though.. Small and medium beams.. i want some =<
With Scorch, yes, but the strength of an Apoc with Tachs doesn't come from being able to hit things at 70km, it comes from being able to (with the bonus, and aurora) hit things at over 150 km away.
Not while having a tank..
Is it unreasonable to want long range weapons to out dps short range weapons at their complete range limit? BYDI (Shadow cartel) Recruitment open!
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Georgina Parmala
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
60
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Posted - 2013.04.12 17:44:00 -
[35] - Quote
Naso Aya wrote:Garviel Tarrant wrote:
Also i'm quite sure an Apoc with scorch will still outdps an apoc with tachs at 70 km.. =/ (WHILE being able to fit things like a tank)
Seriously though.. Small and medium beams.. i want some =<
With Scorch, yes, but the strength of an Apoc with Tachs doesn't come from being able to hit things at 70km, it comes from being able to (with the bonus, and aurora) hit things at over 150 km away. 3 Heat Sink Pulse Apoc 584 DPS Scorch
3HS Tach Apoc can hit close to 700 DPS with navy MF at just shy of 70 and 635 DPS at 80+48 with Navy Gamma. Or 400 with Aurora at 231+48km, let alone 150. You just can't fit much any tank because of power grid, so you might as well fit for lock range and use Aurora. |
Vincent Gaines
Cold Moon Destruction Transmission Lost
349
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Posted - 2013.04.12 17:46:00 -
[36] - Quote
Bouh Revetoile wrote:What about medium railguns ? :-( What, you mean the Eagle should be able to fit a full rack of guns like it's supposed to? Blasphemy. Not a diplo.-á
The above post was edited for spelling. |
Aglais
Liberation Army Li3 Federation
217
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Posted - 2013.04.12 17:59:00 -
[37] - Quote
Seems helpful, and I'm eager to see how these changes are going to improve the Amarr battleships.
Missiles. Where are the battleship missile changes. |
Jedediah Arndtz
Not Another Acronym
7
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Posted - 2013.04.12 18:05:00 -
[38] - Quote
Ohgodyes. Now if only we could get hybrids and missiles rebalanced. |
Gnoshia
State War Academy Caldari State
20
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Posted - 2013.04.12 18:07:00 -
[39] - Quote
Daaaaamn.
I hope they do this for small and medium lasers. Maybe then Sansha ships will be viable for PVP!!!!
YAY PVP NIGHTMARE |
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
727
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Posted - 2013.04.12 18:07:00 -
[40] - Quote
Georgina Parmala wrote:Naso Aya wrote:Garviel Tarrant wrote:
Also i'm quite sure an Apoc with scorch will still outdps an apoc with tachs at 70 km.. =/ (WHILE being able to fit things like a tank)
Seriously though.. Small and medium beams.. i want some =<
With Scorch, yes, but the strength of an Apoc with Tachs doesn't come from being able to hit things at 70km, it comes from being able to (with the bonus, and aurora) hit things at over 150 km away. 3 Heat Sink Pulse Apoc 584 DPS Scorch 3HS Tach Apoc can hit close to 700 DPS with navy MF at just shy of 70 and 635 DPS at 80+48 with Navy Gamma. Or 400 with Aurora at 231+48km, let alone 150. You just can't fit much any tank because of power grid, so you might as well fit for lock range and use Aurora.
Thats 3 heat sinks + 1 tc's at least to get that. (and even then its not actually close to 700 dps at 70.. more like 660
Ignoring the fact that even with the change the Apoc can't really realistically fit tachs. Unless you don't plan on putting anything else on it other than fitting mods. A full rack of Tachs even after the changes takes up more PG than the ship has, Add to that the need for a prop mod and a cap booster.. Thats already about what.. 30% over the PG? before we even think about adding a tank..
The apoc isn't a really good sniper, the oracle is way way better for that. What it is is long range fleet support, and for that it needs a tank and it needs cap.
Also its worth noting that i mostly just care about small and medium beams even though the large ones pretty much share the problem.
(I may have opened the wrong eft, wait a second while i revise numbers) BYDI (Shadow cartel) Recruitment open!
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Frothgar
V0LTA Verge of Collapse
74
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Posted - 2013.04.12 18:08:00 -
[41] - Quote
Love the Battleship changes. Quick question, with Battleships soon providing new and varied gameplay (Excited!!) any chance you could give some thought to making them more wormhole firendly?
(You can bring only ~12 BS round trip in a wormhole with little room for anything else, while using the same mass, you can bring ~40-50 T3 BCs or ~140 Tech3 cruisers and logistics)
Battleships don't provide anywhere near the benefits for the mass they take up, and as such are basically unusable in wormholes. I'd love to see that looked at. (Before anyone says Bhaalgorn, please take in mind they are easily tracked by dreads and effectively 2 shot)
I'd not want a flat mass increase for wormhole mass limits (Capitals don't need any love in WH space) But I'd love some viable ways of bringing a battleship gang around. |
Beaver Retriever
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
44
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Posted - 2013.04.12 18:16:00 -
[42] - Quote
yES
Just what these needed. I don't even have lasers trained but I like variety.. and having something to look forward to. |
AyayaPanda
15 Minute Outliers Novus Dominatum
22
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Posted - 2013.04.12 18:21:00 -
[43] - Quote
Frothgar wrote:Love the Battleship changes. Quick question, with Battleships soon providing new and varied gameplay (Excited!!) any chance you could give some thought to making them more wormhole firendly?
(You can bring only ~12 BS round trip in a wormhole with little room for anything else, while using the same mass, you can bring ~40-50 T3 BCs or ~140 Tech3 cruisers and logistics)
Battleships don't provide anywhere near the benefits for the mass they take up, and as such are basically unusable in wormholes. I'd love to see that looked at. (Before anyone says Bhaalgorn, please take in mind they are easily tracked by dreads and effectively 2 shot)
I'd not want a flat mass increase for wormhole mass limits (Capitals don't need any love in WH space) But I'd love some viable ways of bringing a battleship gang around.
Just a crazy thought: something in the utility high/mid to decrease the ship mass, just like a HIC's bubble, but BS hull only? |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
575
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Posted - 2013.04.12 18:38:00 -
[44] - Quote
Nothing about crystal damage spread? It is the only dual-type weapon that goes from a near 50/50 to a 100/0 state in the course of progressing through the ranges. Give them the projectile treatment sp we get lots of choices between therm/EM ratio's with some tracking/range/cap use thrown in on some of them. Would love a low dps, extreme tracking option for instance.
Nothing about lasers in general? Navy MF/Scorch is the only ammo used with Conflag only used against known EM tankers, rest are very situational (Gamma has near MF spread with a little extra range so still seeing some use). All lasers can use more tracking and all can use an ever so slight shift towards falloff (or reverse if you want to be evil) .. would prefer it be done through the ammo, but whatever floats your boat/inflatable girlfriend/cat.
For cap use 10% won't cut it. Consider the Abaddon in its current form (being joined now by Apocalypse), you need two eludite rigs to be semi autonomous using just guns (no MWD even fitted) .. that is a whopping 40% cap use decrease from two rigs which is barely enough to make it past five minutes of guns firing with some ECCM and a hardener thrown in = injector will be mandatory. So even with the -10%, which is an appreciated gesture for sure, you are still looking at a requirement that says injector+2 rigs or cap from outside .. kind of harsh. PS: That is with my maxed skills by the way, imagine what the scrub that you are so concerned about will experience trying to make cap-ends meet
Jezza McWaffle wrote:... Maybe 15% bonus on powergrid reduction for Tachyons? Tachs are for all intents and purposes over-sized modules, as such requiring a fitting mod or two in order to use them more than acceptable .. current state where you have to use considerably more fitting mods however .. |
PinkKnife
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
333
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Posted - 2013.04.12 18:42:00 -
[45] - Quote
Jezza McWaffle wrote:... Maybe 15% bonus on powergrid reduction for Tachyons? Tachs are for all intents and purposes over-sized modules, as such requiring a fitting mod or two in order to use them more than acceptable .. current state where you have to use considerably more fitting mods however .. [/quote]
Except for you know, on the Oracle, a battle cruiser designed to use guns that are designed to be used on battleships.
Seriously, no one race has to fit a fitting module (or 2) just to be able to fit all of their guns, let alone run them. Tachyons either need a huge damage increase to make them worth it, or a grid buff to make them easier to fit.
As is with current logic, The oracle should be ridiculously overpowered since it can fit tachyons without fitting modules, yet, it isn't. |
Mr Floydy
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
68
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Posted - 2013.04.12 18:46:00 -
[46] - Quote
I'm happy with Tach's being hard to fit. I think 1400mm arty are the same for Minmatar? They work fantastically on a Nightmare, and can be used in select fits on other ship if you want out and out damage at range.
You can compromise by using mega beams for easier fitting, cap usage etc. They're not *that* much worse |
Veng3ance
Enlightened Industries Test Alliance Please Ignore
13
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Posted - 2013.04.12 18:46:00 -
[47] - Quote
Thank you!!! |
Regolis
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2013.04.12 18:49:00 -
[48] - Quote
Moar numbers
I know everyone here is concentrating on Tachyons .. I'll get around to those at some point..
350mm Railgun 1 activation 15.4
Dual Heavy Beam Laser 1 activation 35
The numbers for these guns (range,falloff,refire) all seem fairly balanced. Using the same configuration for Mega Beam 1 it's activation cost should be between 49 and 52 BEFORE adding your new -20%
I don't have a direct comparison for the Tachyons as they are an oversized module. The numbers for them appear to be somewhere between 70 and 85 for Tachyon Beam 1 before the 20% reduction. |
Haradgrim
Zenmak Manufacturing and Associates
8
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Posted - 2013.04.12 19:05:00 -
[49] - Quote
This feels like a good direction. I think with this change lasers will be in a pretty good place. Now if rails could be made viable for BS's at sub sniping ranges.........
Really looking forward to playing with lasers again, by far and away my favorite weapon system. |
Bakuhz
luna Oscura Clandestina Armada The Nightingales of Hades
12
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Posted - 2013.04.12 19:13:00 -
[50] - Quote
Regolis wrote:Ok so maybe my ability at math is broken...
Mega Beam Laser 1 40 km range 16 falloff 65 GJ power usage 9.00 rate of fire 3.0 damage modifier tracking 0.0153125 rad/sec FITTING 55 CPU 3250 Powergrid
425mm Railgun 1 48 km range 24 km falloff 21 GJ power usage 9.56 rate of fire 3.025 damage modifier 0.01010625 rad/sec FITTING 67 CPU 2200 Powergrid
ok so for 0.56 rate of fire and better tracking .. the Mega beam has 50% more fitting cost and 3x the power cost to fire... so lets reduce the capacitor on Amarr ships....
20% reduction in power use and 10% in grid is a joke .. took me less than 5 minutes to type this in even less to actually look at the data ... maybe you guys should
Reposted here from Amarr BS rebalance thread
stop smoking please http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=Bakuhz#kills |
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ThisIsAnAwoxCharacter
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1
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Posted - 2013.04.12 19:17:00 -
[51] - Quote
How about looking at the cap usage of XL lasers while you are at it? |
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
1656
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Posted - 2013.04.12 19:31:00 -
[52] - Quote
make it so a eve-style bounty system (done)-á dust boarding parties You fail you fail you fail you fail to jump because you are cloaked |
Niko Lorenzio
United Eve Directorate
243
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Posted - 2013.04.12 19:33:00 -
[53] - Quote
This is a great start, but try to avoid moving further into making all shps/races/weapons pretty much the same crap different look. Still, this change is a MUST to make the proposed BS changes usable. |
Regolis
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2013.04.12 19:34:00 -
[54] - Quote
Bakuhz wrote:Regolis wrote:Ok so maybe my ability at math is broken...
Mega Beam Laser 1 40 km range 16 falloff 65 GJ power usage 9.00 rate of fire 3.0 damage modifier tracking 0.0153125 rad/sec FITTING 55 CPU 3250 Powergrid
425mm Railgun 1 48 km range 24 km falloff 21 GJ power usage 9.56 rate of fire 3.025 damage modifier 0.01010625 rad/sec FITTING 67 CPU 2200 Powergrid
ok so for 0.56 rate of fire and better tracking .. the Mega beam has 50% more fitting cost and 3x the power cost to fire... so lets reduce the capacitor on Amarr ships....
20% reduction in power use and 10% in grid is a joke .. took me less than 5 minutes to type this in even less to actually look at the data ... maybe you guys should
Reposted here from Amarr BS rebalance thread stop smoking please
I'm sorry ... let me try that again with those side by side so you can see them
65 GJ vs 21 GJ with close to the same stats besides tracking ... 3250 grid vs 2200 grid would be 50% of the fitting of the 2200 to get to 3250 ...
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sukee tsayah
Southern Cross Incorporated Flying Dangerous
19
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Posted - 2013.04.12 19:48:00 -
[55] - Quote
Great start, but as it has been said previously, you really need to look more into:
1) 10% not being nearly enough 2) doing the same to small/medium energy turrets
If it's true that this is something you guys have been thinking about doing for a long time, please do it correctly. We will likely not see a re-balance of Amarr's cap problem for a really long time after this, so please get this right.
To re-iterate: 10% is not enough; do the same to small/medium energy turrets. |
Mr Floydy
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
68
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Posted - 2013.04.12 19:51:00 -
[56] - Quote
Regolis... You're significantly overlooking the other benefits of lasers.... Like ammo usage. Plus Amarr ships tend to have more powergrid to fit the larger guns.
By all means argue that lasers use too much cap, but suggesting they should have the same usage as Hybrids is bonkers. |
Esna Pitoojee
Wolfsbrigade Lost Obsession
261
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Posted - 2013.04.12 19:54:00 -
[57] - Quote
If the proposed changes to Amarr battleships do go through, this (or something like it) will be a neccesity. |
Ayla Crenshaw
Polish Immortals
19
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Posted - 2013.04.12 19:55:00 -
[58] - Quote
Well that mildly suprised me!
It's going in a good direction. Cap need change on beams, while not completely counterbalancing loss of hull bonuses towards cap use will help making all of the new lineup more capstable. Maybe even firing the damn things without capping out!
What it needs now is some heavy EFT wizardry and testing on SiSi. I'm not convinced it solved all problems but it's really a good start. |
Regolis
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2013.04.12 19:57:00 -
[59] - Quote
Mr Floydy wrote:Regolis... You're significantly overlooking the other benefits of lasers.... Like ammo usage. Plus Amarr ships tend to have more powergrid to fit the larger guns.
By all means argue that lasers use too much cap, but suggesting they should have the same usage as Hybrids is bonkers.
Reading comprehension -1 mate ...
I said that Mega Beam 1s should stay in SCALE with the ration of the Dual Beam / 350mm scaling
IE a Mega Beam 1 should use approx 47 capacitor BEFORE adding the -20% planned change .. This would keep the scaling in balance with what already exists .. At no point did I say they should use the same amount of cap.. The trouble with beam lasers has always been the wonky scaling of cap use
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Ganthrithor
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
547
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Posted - 2013.04.12 19:59:00 -
[60] - Quote
My future absurd anti-support pulse Apoc fits thank you. <3 <3 <3 |
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