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Selene Nask
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
9
|
Posted - 2013.04.14 17:46:00 -
[61] - Quote
Beekeeper Bob wrote:Andski wrote:the whole "lowsec/null are for PvP, hisec isn't" mentality is driven by CCP's coddling of the worst players in the game
until that coddling ends and they are less sheltered from the realities of eve that mentality will continue to be prevalent Dictating the realities of EvE again? The reality is, CCP cannot survive on alts forever, which means they need to bring in more new players. With the number of griefers in the game, CCP has no choice but to make it harder for them. Easy to understand for a logical person.....
Its only logical if you're assuming that every one new to game wants or needs that type of 'care'. Many people don't. Perhaps I'm biased but I sure don't and didn't when I started a couple of months ago. And the half a dozen or more people that joined at the same time in my corp didn't and don't either. Most of us came to EVE knowing full well the 'risk' and desiring a game that has some edge to it rather then many of the other MMOS we've been playing for years. And by my count now that number has doubled in new paid alt accounts and in a couple of cases tripled ( like me)
And we are hardly risk averse. Our kill boards are pitful (hilariously so, though slowly getting better) and I've lost count of how many ships I've lost in both pvp and pve. Most every one of those losses is either going into something knowing the loss is likely to happen or just due to being stupid or partaking in something risky and losing the bet. And yet everyone is still having fun and plugging away, sometimes after losses that can be quite horrific wallet wise for new characters.
I doubt I would have paid for more then one account or even feel like staying in this game if it wasn't for the risk as aggravating as it can be at times. There are very few if any other games out there like it and that's what's great about it. It's almost like a breath of fresh air.
So yes my point. Please don't assume that new players need or want to be coddled. I have no idea about numbers in comparison, but I highly doubt that me and my group are some sort of outlying exception. |
SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1553
|
Posted - 2013.04.14 17:51:00 -
[62] - Quote
If I wanted to play WoW I'd just go play WoW. It's better at it. |
baltec1
Bat Country
5954
|
Posted - 2013.04.14 17:56:00 -
[63] - Quote
Tasha Saisima wrote:they have to stay in hi-sec because they are basically pvp carebears
When the masses of high sec take their untanked pinata into low sec we will follow. |
Dave Stark
2566
|
Posted - 2013.04.14 18:10:00 -
[64] - Quote
SmilingVagrant wrote:If I wanted to play WoW I'd just go play WoW. It's better at it.
if you wanted to play wow i'd be worried about you. life can't be that bad, surely? |
Random Majere
Epsilon Lyr Nulli Secunda
66
|
Posted - 2013.04.14 18:13:00 -
[65] - Quote
The thing is that, it all boils down to two simple questions:
1- Why do you play Eve? and
2- What is your personnel code of ethics, when playing in an MMO?
Trying to debate on who is right and who is wrong is totally pointless. |
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
1219
|
Posted - 2013.04.14 18:26:00 -
[66] - Quote
Random Majere wrote:The thing is that, it all boils down to two simple questions:
1- Why do you play Eve? and
2- What is your personnel code of ethics, when playing in an MMO?
Trying to debate on who is right and who is wrong is totally pointless.
I think there is a right and a wrong.
Right: EVE is a sandbox, and why I play and what my code of ethics in game are can be applied anywhere, any time. That's what EVE is.
Wrong: EVE has PVP zones and PVE zones, and you're a bad wrong nastyman if you try to do the PVP in the PVE zone and should go to the PVP zone because people in the PVE zone don't want their things blown up, stolen, etc |
Selene Nask
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
9
|
Posted - 2013.04.14 18:27:00 -
[67] - Quote
Random Majere wrote:The thing is that, it all boils down to two simple questions:
1- Why do you play Eve? and
2- What is your personnel code of ethics, when playing in an MMO?
Trying to debate on who is right and who is wrong is totally pointless.
True but coming into a game that is not already set up to be 100% safe (except when docked) and that only has degrees of safety set up to choose from and then getting frustrated at the lack of total safety and turning that frustration into some sort of demand for it to change to be even more safe is pretty cheesy.
Someone that wants a high degree of safety from loss in the way and why they can stay in HS 100% of the time. If they are after 100% safety against unwanted loss then they really made a mistake in thinking EVE is set up for that. That's the issue the person has with the way they like or desire to play EVE vs how the game they chose to join and play is. That is hardly the games fault. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
13585
|
Posted - 2013.04.14 18:30:00 -
[68] - Quote
TheGunslinger42 wrote:Instead of picking on people in highsec who can't fight back and don't want to PVP?
[GǪ]
In case you didn't get it, sarcasm. I'm saying this "go to low/null/wh to pvp" line is stupid. Since the ones using that line are stupid, and therefore not a good target for sarcasm, wouldn't it be easier to just provide them with the answer:
GÇ£Why should they? There's no reason to.GÇ¥
Vote Malcanis for CSM8. |
Xen Solarus
Inner 5phere
365
|
Posted - 2013.04.14 18:36:00 -
[69] - Quote
Simple answer, targets in low/null/wh-space shoot back. Those in highsec don't. Why do risky PvP when you've got highsec easy-mode? Post with your main, like a BOSS! |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
13585
|
Posted - 2013.04.14 18:38:00 -
[70] - Quote
Xen Solarus wrote:Simple answer, targets in low/null/wh-space shoot back. Those in highsec don't. Why do risky PvP when you've got highsec easy-mode? You didn't read the OP, did you? Vote Malcanis for CSM8. |
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Lady Zarrina
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
83
|
Posted - 2013.04.14 18:40:00 -
[71] - Quote
they might lose Allocate resources to POS improvement |
baltec1
Bat Country
5956
|
Posted - 2013.04.14 18:41:00 -
[72] - Quote
Xen Solarus wrote:Simple answer, targets in low/null/wh-space shoot back. Those in highsec don't. Why do risky PvP when you've got highsec easy-mode?
People in low sec dont fly around in untanked ships with billions in the hold. Thats why we are in high sec. |
Augustine Artrald
White Empire Fleetyards
0
|
Posted - 2013.04.14 18:55:00 -
[73] - Quote
I have been playing EVE for a little over a week now, and I am a trifle confused by the hostility directed toward players who prefer or only care about PVE. Whenever someone suggests that EVE is boring and merely a spreadsheet simulator, plenty of EVE fans rally in defense of the game and argue that EVE is a sandbox--whatever the player wants it to be. Yet some players, several of whom have posted in this thread, seem focused on the idea that EVE must only be centered on PVP. Is it so hard for those players to accept that others might not actually enjoy PVP, might actually find it boring, and, yes, might actually prefer PVE?
I personally have no interest in the PVP aspect of EVE. Does that mean I should quit the game?
I am not suggesting that those who enjoy PVP should restrict themselves only to mutual PVP. But when players ardently seek to ruin the fun of those who focus on PVE so as to drive them away from the game, a problem exists. Such behavior seems, at least to me, detrimental to the spirit of EVE.
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baltec1
Bat Country
5956
|
Posted - 2013.04.14 19:06:00 -
[74] - Quote
Augustine Artrald wrote:I have been playing EVE for a little over a week now, and I am a trifle confused by the hostility directed toward players who prefer or only care about PVE. Whenever someone suggests that EVE is boring and merely a spreadsheet simulator, plenty of EVE fans rally in defense of the game and argue that EVE is a sandbox--whatever the player wants it to be. Yet some players, several of whom have posted in this thread, seem focused on the idea that EVE must only be centered on PVP. Is it so hard for those players to accept that others might not actually enjoy PVP, might actually find it boring, and, yes, might actually prefer PVE?
I personally have no interest in the PVP aspect of EVE. Does that mean I should quit the game?
I am not suggesting that those who enjoy PVP should restrict themselves only to mutual PVP. But when players ardently seek to ruin the fun of those who focus on PVE so as to drive them away from the game, a problem exists. Such behavior seems, at least to me, detrimental to the spirit of EVE.
Why do people think they should be exempt from the same rules as everyone else?
You joined a PVP game, don't be shocked that pvp will happen to you. |
Augustine Artrald
White Empire Fleetyards
1
|
Posted - 2013.04.14 19:20:00 -
[75] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Augustine Artrald wrote:I have been playing EVE for a little over a week now, and I am a trifle confused by the hostility directed toward players who prefer or only care about PVE. Whenever someone suggests that EVE is boring and merely a spreadsheet simulator, plenty of EVE fans rally in defense of the game and argue that EVE is a sandbox--whatever the player wants it to be. Yet some players, several of whom have posted in this thread, seem focused on the idea that EVE must only be centered on PVP. Is it so hard for those players to accept that others might not actually enjoy PVP, might actually find it boring, and, yes, might actually prefer PVE?
I personally have no interest in the PVP aspect of EVE. Does that mean I should quit the game?
I am not suggesting that those who enjoy PVP should restrict themselves only to mutual PVP. But when players ardently seek to ruin the fun of those who focus on PVE so as to drive them away from the game, a problem exists. Such behavior seems, at least to me, detrimental to the spirit of EVE.
Why do people think they should be exempt from the same rules as everyone else? You joined a PVP game, don't be shocked that pvp will happen to you.
You clearly did not read my post. I do not have a problem with those who enjoy PVP. Were someone to engage me in PVP, I would have no problem with it. I would actually have fun attempting to escape.
My problem lies in the treatment of EVE by some as merely a PVP game. Tell me, were I to keep one of my characters forever docked in a station and focus purely on the roleplaying and social aspects of the game, would EVE still be a PVP game to me? I think not.
I challenge the notion that EVE must only be about PVP. And I also find it strange that a segment of the game population despises those who only enjoy PVE such that they want and attempt to make them quit. |
Selene Nask
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
9
|
Posted - 2013.04.14 19:25:00 -
[76] - Quote
Augustine Artrald wrote:I have been playing EVE for a little over a week now, and I am a trifle confused by the hostility directed toward players who prefer or only care about PVE. Whenever someone suggests that EVE is boring and merely a spreadsheet simulator, plenty of EVE fans rally in defense of the game and argue that EVE is a sandbox--whatever the player wants it to be. Yet some players, several of whom have posted in this thread, seem focused on the idea that EVE must only be centered on PVP. Is it so hard for those players to accept that others might not actually enjoy PVP, might actually find it boring, and, yes, might actually prefer PVE?
I personally have no interest in the PVP aspect of EVE. Does that mean I should quit the game?
I am not suggesting that those who enjoy PVP should restrict themselves only to mutual PVP. But when players ardently seek to ruin the fun of those who focus on PVE so as to drive them away from the game, a problem exists. Such behavior seems, at least to me, detrimental to the spirit of EVE.
I'm new as well as I've posted about before. I do partake in some PVP but not a hole lot. I do enjoy it but I like the PVE aspects of EVE more right now and spend most of my time doing that.
The thing is even though I do like PVE and I don't particularly like PVPing while PVEing which is why I do almost all of it in highsec when I started playing the game I knew that it was game where PVP can happen, anywhere me liking it at the time or not.
This is what I read most people getting annoyed with. There is nothing wrong with mostly PVEing and liking the PVE part of the game more then PVP. It's people that choose to play a game with PVP possible anywhere and get upset that it does and sometimes to them. That is the main issue. The game is not and isn't promoted as one that is 100% safe from ever encountering PVP if you do anything but stay docked. If that's what people want then it isn't that game.
And frankly as a newbie I don't blame some oldbies getting annoyed at people with that sort of attitude. For the most part PVE in high sec is really, really safe. It's even quite safe (though less so) for people that don't pay much attention to what is happening around them. I barely ever bother to check local and look at who is in highsec for instance. Where in places like low and null when I'm PVEing it's my best friend.
My mining ship survived an attempted gank in highsec. Was it annoying? Sure. I really didn't want to do more then 'chill out' at the time but I sure wasn't boohooing about it happening or even caring why the gankers decided to do it. They do it cause they can and just because I was in pretty safe area relative to other areas there is not some guarentee that if someone feels like it, for any reason I can't get blowed up.
That the way the game is. It was this way when I chose to pay to play it. It's this way for anyone that chooses to play it. I really don't understand why people that never, ever want it to happen chose to play the game in the first place.
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Wacktopia
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
503
|
Posted - 2013.04.14 19:28:00 -
[77] - Quote
TheGunslinger42 wrote:Instead of picking on people in highsec who can't fight back and don't want to PVP?
I mean, the mining barges, PVE fit ships, etc that get blown up in low/null/wh space aren't anywhere as near as weak and defenseless as the mining barges and PVE ships in highsec, and they totally wanted me to drop a sb gang on them and kill their ship and pod, so it's ok if I gank them in low/null/wh space, but in highsec? Wow thats just griefing basically!
In case you didn't get it, sarcasm. I'm saying this "go to low/null/wh to pvp" line is stupid.
In EVE competition, conflict, aggression, territory and political movement Is the game.
Hi sec is a territory, no-one has any right to be there any more than anywhere else in EVE. If you want to play in hi sec you must prepare to defend yourself as is the throughout the entire game.
Please don't use words like 'grief' to describe what is simply part of the game. What you are doing is basically saying that taking someone's pawn in chess is 'grief'. Referring to PVP in hi-sec as grief or complaining is basically like playing chess then complainng your opponent griefed you when they take your first pawn. You are playing a game where conflict is rife. It`s time to cowboy up. #savejita |
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
1219
|
Posted - 2013.04.14 19:32:00 -
[78] - Quote
Augustine Artrald wrote:I have been playing EVE for a little over a week now, and I am a trifle confused by the hostility directed toward players who prefer or only care about PVE. Whenever someone suggests that EVE is boring and merely a spreadsheet simulator, plenty of EVE fans rally in defense of the game and argue that EVE is a sandbox--whatever the player wants it to be. Yet some players, several of whom have posted in this thread, seem focused on the idea that EVE must only be centered on PVP. Is it so hard for those players to accept that others might not actually enjoy PVP, might actually find it boring, and, yes, might actually prefer PVE?
I personally have no interest in the PVP aspect of EVE. Does that mean I should quit the game?
I am not suggesting that those who enjoy PVP should restrict themselves only to mutual PVP. But when players ardently seek to ruin the fun of those who focus on PVE so as to drive them away from the game, a problem exists. Such behavior seems, at least to me, detrimental to the spirit of EVE.
It's fine if you're not interested in PVP and prefer to focus on other things, so long as you accept that no matter what you do or where you are you're playing a PVP game and ending up in a PVP situation is a possible outcome. The people who can't accept or handle that probably should quit - and this isn't said out of anger or hostility, it's just the fact that it really, really isn't their kind of game and there's not much chance they'll find what they're looking for. Or they will, but someone will warp in and take it off them at gunpoint, and then they'll ragequit anyway |
baltec1
Bat Country
5957
|
Posted - 2013.04.14 19:36:00 -
[79] - Quote
Augustine Artrald wrote:
You clearly did not read my post. I do not have a problem with those who enjoy PVP. Were someone to engage me in PVP, I would have no problem with it. I would actually have fun attempting to escape.
My problem lies in the treatment of EVE by some as merely a PVP game. Tell me, were I to keep one of my characters forever docked in a station and focus purely on the roleplaying and social aspects of the game, would EVE still be a PVP game to me? I think not.
I challenge the notion that EVE must only be about PVP. And I also find it strange that a segment of the game population despises those who only enjoy PVE such that they want and attempt to make them quit.
Saying I dont want to pvp means squat here. I can attack you at any time in space and even reach into stations to get you. This is a PVP game, there is no escaping this fact. You can try to only do pve things but if someone decides they want you dead for whatever reason there is nothing to stop them from attacking you.
The sooner people understand this the sooner they can get on with the game. The people that kick up an argument that they should be exempt from pvp because they arnt interested in it dont tend to last long. |
Daimon Kaiera
179
|
Posted - 2013.04.14 19:40:00 -
[80] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Augustine Artrald wrote:
You clearly did not read my post. I do not have a problem with those who enjoy PVP. Were someone to engage me in PVP, I would have no problem with it. I would actually have fun attempting to escape.
My problem lies in the treatment of EVE by some as merely a PVP game. Tell me, were I to keep one of my characters forever docked in a station and focus purely on the roleplaying and social aspects of the game, would EVE still be a PVP game to me? I think not.
I challenge the notion that EVE must only be about PVP. And I also find it strange that a segment of the game population despises those who only enjoy PVE such that they want and attempt to make them quit.
Saying I dont want to pvp means squat here. I can attack you at any time in space and even reach into stations to get you. This is a PVP game, there is no escaping this fact. You can try to only do pve things but if someone decides they want you dead for whatever reason there is nothing to stop them from attacking you.
Explain this, "Reach into stations." Here by talk start if go able? |
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baltec1
Bat Country
5957
|
Posted - 2013.04.14 19:45:00 -
[81] - Quote
Daimon Kaiera wrote:
Explain this, "Reach into stations."
Scams, spies, ect.
We dont even need to enter high sec to cause our damage |
EvEa Deva
State War Academy Caldari State
243
|
Posted - 2013.04.14 19:52:00 -
[82] - Quote
Andski wrote:the whole "lowsec/null are for PvP, hisec isn't" mentality is driven by CCP's coddling of the worst players in the game
until that coddling ends and they are less sheltered from the realities of eve that mentality will continue to be prevalent
well said, and the same can also be said about this thread too
|
Daimon Kaiera
179
|
Posted - 2013.04.14 20:05:00 -
[83] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Daimon Kaiera wrote:
Explain this, "Reach into stations."
Scams, spies, ect. We dont even need to enter high sec to cause our damage
Oh, I thought you were going to active your super secret advanced copy of WiS and come into carebear's captain quarters while shooting them with phazors. Here by talk start if go able? |
March rabbit
epTa Team Inc.
621
|
Posted - 2013.04.14 20:30:00 -
[84] - Quote
posting in 10000001th thread about "how those silly bears are wrong". |
Garresh
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
98
|
Posted - 2013.04.14 20:33:00 -
[85] - Quote
Brorr Liason wrote:Well you see, there's this thing called 'Risk vs Reward' that these gankers and activists like to point out in high sec. They pretend they're educating carebears and force them to see that high sec is not safe and that there is risk in EVE. What's really happening is that they are risk adverse themselves and look for the easy and guaranteed kills while rationalizing their actions in a way that seems important.
But yes, high sec does have risks. Gankers and war decs are part of it so get used to it. Low and Null have a purpose but restricting pvp to just those 2 spots is silly.
Lol. I launched a solo w-space operation 5 months into my first eve character. I put everything on the line and defended myself insleeper space for over a year alone. C2, not C1. So it was potentially siege able. I wanted risk. I wanted fights. And if I couldn't fight I fit up a ninja salvaging interceptor and ninja salvaged sleeper sites right from under the nose of my neighbors. They shot at me and came at me in numbers but I still got their nanoribbons.
100% of my income for the last 2.5 years was wspace or lowsec exploration. And you know what? theyre as big of pussies in low and null as they are in high sec. I came back to high sec and griefing because low and null are boring as ****. Its not a matter of risk vs reward anymore. Its simply a matter of I don't want to spend 6 hours looking for something to shoot at. Null bears are worse than high sec. Those babies cry if someone even enters local and *cloaks*. And when I am looking for fights its always massive blobs. You wanna see risk averse? Check out mjnmatar amarr FW. They're all pussies. We tried doing the risk thing. We came back to shoot you because we got bored. This Space Intentionally Left Blank |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
8668
|
Posted - 2013.04.14 20:35:00 -
[86] - Quote
TheGunslinger42 wrote:Instead of picking on people in highsec who can't fight back and don't want to PVP?
I don't think you get piracy.
Please vote for me for CSM8-áhere
My recommended voting list |
March rabbit
epTa Team Inc.
622
|
Posted - 2013.04.14 20:36:00 -
[87] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:TheGunslinger42 wrote:Instead of picking on people in highsec who can't fight back and don't want to PVP?
I don't think you get piracy. well. OP managed to bait and troll Malkanis
so i need to say: OP won |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
13587
|
Posted - 2013.04.14 20:37:00 -
[88] - Quote
Augustine Artrald wrote:I challenge the notion that EVE must only be about PVP. Ok. So describe one thing you can do in EVE that is not PvP.
Vote Malcanis for CSM8. |
March rabbit
epTa Team Inc.
622
|
Posted - 2013.04.14 20:38:00 -
[89] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Augustine Artrald wrote:I challenge the notion that EVE must only be about PVP. Ok. So describe one thing you can do in EVE that is not PvP. i bait: spinning your ship in station? |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
13587
|
Posted - 2013.04.14 20:44:00 -
[90] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:i bait: spinning your ship in station? GǪyou mean the thing that has a counter, and which people use to measure epeen boredom with? Nah. Vote Malcanis for CSM8. |
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