| Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 7 8 :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Nafri
   |
Posted - 2005.09.17 10:07:00 -
[31]
fit a smartbomb 
Your bla bla hit bla bla for bla bla damage. Wanna have some bubu now? |
Bigben
|
Posted - 2005.09.17 10:17:00 -
[32]
fit this 8 large smartbombds
and then just armor handnors and plates
and just hav him webbed
:)
tho raven cant beat a tempest at range
manchester united's best ever fan!
|
Kaeten
|
Posted - 2005.09.17 10:17:00 -
[33]
 Originally by: Jim Raynor
Wow okay so two battleships went head to head with short range setups and the Raven won? I'm sorry is like the Raven not allowed to ever win in PvP or something?
considering torps can go over 40km I think the mega SHOULD win at 1km.
|
Rexthor Hammerfists
|
Posted - 2005.09.17 10:21:00 -
[34]
Why There are way better bses then Ravens:
First Round:
"The Raven does not need tracking which meens that its
torps will always hit for full damage besides the resist."
Torps hit for WAY less dmg on cruisers and frigs too ofc,
a blasterthron would melt cruisers in seconds, once webbed and scrambled - ive seen it workin very well..
also a mega with an mwd running, same for other fast bses, cut the dmg on torps big time, an 800ms fast bs gets hit by an torpedo with torpedos lvl4, and warheads upgrrade lvl4, for 533 dmg, on unhardened targets.
Second Round :
"Ravens also does not need to have an MWD equipped to do its
job and therefor always have more cap to tank with, it also
never have to use its cap for anything else then tank
which leaves the ravenpilot able to focus on which torp is
doing the most dmg."
The ravens cap is small compared to other bses,
Xlarge shieldbooster use alot of cap
and u also need an ab, when u dont have perfect bms as the ravens are stupiud slow and unagil
Round 3 :
"As mentioned in the previous round, the raven can fit a
very decent tank while also fitting a full rack of nasty
launchers. Try fitting a full rack of neutrons and a decent
tank on the blasterthron without sacrifising all Mags."
Sieges have very high fitting reqs, u need power diags to fit em,
shieldtank has a very high cpu usage, so u cant fit ballistic controls as u wont have enough cpu.
and the old prob with shieldtanking ona caldari ship:
- u need for an good shieldtank, and Xlarge shieldbooster,
an shieldamp, one em hardener, thermal hardener and an kinetic hardener.
now that leaves u with 1 free midslot - but u need a scrambler and an ab.
also to run an Xlarge long enough to not getting killed, especially when the enemies use a nos, u need a cap injector, tho u cant rlly fit it anyways..
well u could remove hardeners from ur tank, but its not a tankt hen anymore, and blasters rip through ur shield in seconds.
Round 4 :
"Raven covers all 4 dmgtypes which is a huge advantage in
1on1s since you will always do your max dmg. Blasterthrons
however, are left with Kin/Therm which the shields allready
has good resistance to."
Changin torps takes 10 seconds, in that 10 seconds the ravens advantage, being able to spit out torps from far, is nullified.
in 10 seconds a closeby blastermega has dealt a lot of dmg to u,
in 10 secs ur shieldbooster has used alot of dmg from u.
|
Sandokan
|
Posted - 2005.09.17 10:28:00 -
[35]
it realy all depends on skills.
If you know your ship then you know what skills the need.
Most people train up gunnery skills very high, a caldari pilot will train his missiles skills and most importend... engineering skills!
Personly i have about 4.5 mil sp in engineering skills:
Energy grid upgrade 5
Energy management 5
Energy system operation 5
Engineering 5
thoos skills are for any race importend
for raven also
Shield Management
Shield operation
Shield upgrades
Tactical Shield Manipulation
Shield compensation
Except for 1 i have thoos all on lvl5, this realy makes alot of difference
Amour tanked ships don't have any of thoos skills, for them its importend to have Hull upgrades lvl5 (also good for raven) and Repair system lvl5
Then mods and setup are importend, if you can spent alot of isk on your ship, like for a Raven gist harderners, gist amps and gist shield boosters, then you understand how strong a Raven realy can be!
Complaining is easy, working on skills is something els... and hell yes i know, CCP changes alot, also for me, i have all laser specialization, we know what happend with lasers, and we know what happend with missiles, i don't complain... i work on my skills to get the ship i use as strong as it can be.
And yes i'm high skilled, so what?
Check your skills and go for it and don't say a Raven only need missile skills and gunships need so many gunnery skills. Every skill on lvl5 is as good as high prized mod!
Maybe people think that a 15 mil sp should easy kill a 35 mil sp guy!
its all about skills...
cheers
|
Dreez
|
Posted - 2005.09.17 10:39:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Rexthor Hammerfists
Why There are way better bses then Ravens:
First Round:
"The Raven does not need tracking which meens that its
torps will always hit for full damage besides the resist."
Torps hit for WAY less dmg on cruisers and frigs too ofc,
a blasterthron would melt cruisers in seconds, once webbed and scrambled - ive seen it workin very well..
also a mega with an mwd running, same for other fast bses, cut the dmg on torps big time, an 800ms fast bs gets hit by an torpedo with torpedos lvl4, and warheads upgrrade lvl4, for 533 dmg, on unhardened targets.
IŠll remember that and try to contantly run at 800m/s orbeting the raven at 3km in my mega  .
Second Round :
"Ravens also does not need to have an MWD equipped to do its
job and therefor always have more cap to tank with, it also
never have to use its cap for anything else then tank
which leaves the ravenpilot able to focus on which torp is
doing the most dmg."
The ravens cap is small compared to other bses,
Xlarge shieldbooster use alot of cap
and u also need an ab, when u dont have perfect bms as the ravens are stupiud slow and unagil
Raven - 4250 Cap. Mega - 4500 Cap. Ohhnoes.. Still Mega has to split its 3375 Cap (4500 minus 1125 from MWD) into 3 areas where the raven still only puts his 4250 into sheer tank. .
Round 3 :
"As mentioned in the previous round, the raven can fit a
very decent tank while also fitting a full rack of nasty
launchers. Try fitting a full rack of neutrons and a decent
tank on the blasterthron without sacrifising all Mags."
Sieges have very high fitting reqs, u need power diags to fit em,
shieldtank has a very high cpu usage, so u cant fit ballistic controls as u wont have enough cpu.
and the old prob with shieldtanking ona caldari ship:
- u need for an good shieldtank, and Xlarge shieldbooster,
an shieldamp, one em hardener, thermal hardener and an kinetic hardener.
You dont "need" a Shieldamp, thats a choise. There are named Shieldboosters.
now that leaves u with 1 free midslot - but u need a scrambler and an ab.
also to run an Xlarge long enough to not getting killed, especially when the enemies use a nos, u need a cap injector, tho u cant rlly fit it anyways..
well u could remove hardeners from ur tank, but its not a tankt hen anymore, and blasters rip through ur shield in seconds.
Round 4 :
"Raven covers all 4 dmgtypes which is a huge advantage in
1on1s since you will always do your max dmg. Blasterthrons
however, are left with Kin/Therm which the shields allready
has good resistance to."
Changin torps takes 10 seconds, in that 10 seconds the ravens advantage, being able to spit out torps from far, is nullified.
in 10 seconds a closeby blastermega has dealt a lot of dmg to u,
in 10 secs ur shieldbooster has used alot of dmg from u.
Nice try thou.
I might have ATUK in my tag, but i have OC in my DNA
|
Deja Thoris
|
Posted - 2005.09.17 10:52:00 -
[37]
First a mild rant. 13mill SP in gunnery? Not all of them are hybrids right? So your brag is not relevent.
To kill a raven you need to do two things (doh!)
- Tank the damage
- Kill his tank
Is it conceivable you can nos the crap out of him? No cap = no hardners = no shield boosting
Would something crazy like 4 nos, 3 blasters and 10 heavy drones fail outright?
Or you could just fly a raven. A pilot of your vast experience and insurmountable piloting prowess should be able to kill them in the same ship
|
xOm3gAx
|
Posted - 2005.09.17 10:54:00 -
[38]
you gotta be kidding me... ive flown them both and in both cases it depends in a very large way about 3 main things 1) pilot skill points 2) ship setup 3) pilot competance
-----------------
*Decloaks and starts blasting your sig* Applesauce Biotch
Ok who nerf batted my sig >again<?
*^^Bows^^* ^^ALL HAIL THE UBERNESS OF Thee^^
Succumb to your nightmares
Darkness |
Soros
|
Posted - 2005.09.17 10:57:00 -
[39]
I saw a friend take down an atuk raven with his blasterthron.
don't whine....
-= Soros =-
BoB
|
FireFoxx80
|
Posted - 2005.09.17 11:00:00 -
[40]
Point is as well, the further you get from a Raven the more advantage you have, as your damage to him is instantaneous.
23? # Missile Tool # ex: P-TMC : USAC |
ParMizaN
|
Posted - 2005.09.17 11:00:00 -
[41]
lol.
Eve subscription currently cancelled |
Captain Rod
|
Posted - 2005.09.17 11:09:00 -
[42]
Originally by: MouseOnMars
Originally by: Ginger Magician
In my vast experience
I'm sorry but am I the only one who found that at least a little bit arrogant.
Hehehe. The vast experience of gate sniping noobs in frigs and cruisers with a tech II laid out APOC form 150km away in empire. Vastly inappropriate experience.
You fight an experienced and well trained Raven pilot, you loose. If you pick your fights wisely you should win.
|
JOSEPHx
|
Posted - 2005.09.17 11:09:00 -
[43]
I dont understand..
1 minute the raven is rubbish because of missile nerf
10 minutes later it is too powerfull???
you could always try EW/NOS domi, but if the domi wins should that get nerfed as well?
Oh noes, my ship cant beat his, mummy dont make me have to think about tactics it hurts my head
----
|
Loka
|
Posted - 2005.09.17 11:53:00 -
[44]
its not the raven imp, its the blaters. They really sux compared to other guns.
a friend of me with good BS skills land 20km from me on SISI. I was in a named 425mm Gankathron and he named blasters.
Until he was in 5km raneg he was already in hull and my drones finished him off. I survived with half armor after this.
The blasters should do devastating dmg closeup, thats my point, but they dont.
The theoretical dmg is high, but the dmg in real isnt that high, because of the combat range + worse tracking at closeup.
Increasing the tracking of Blasters would do the trick imo.
_________________________
Dead or Alive
 |
Dreez
|
Posted - 2005.09.17 12:05:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Loka
its not the raven imp, its the blasters. They really sux compared to other guns.
a friend of me with good BS skills land 20km from me on SISI. I was in a named 425mm Gankathron and he named blasters.
Until he was in 5km raneg he was already in hull and my drones finished him off. I survived with half armor after this.
The blasters should do devastating dmg closeup, thats my point, but they dont.
The theoretical dmg is high, but the dmg in real isnt that high, because of the combat range + worse tracking at closeup.
Increasing the tracking of Blasters would do the trick imo.
Amen
I might have ATUK in my tag, but i have OC in my DNA
|
Krulla
|
Posted - 2005.09.17 12:09:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Ginger Magician
Its not just one fight its a number of fights against pilots that should in theory be hopelessly outclassed against a pilot of my experience and skill point level but they r not because the raven is overpowered
So you screwed up, and the raven should be nerfed?
Gotcha.
Respect the Domi. Or else. |
Huskar
|
Posted - 2005.09.17 12:15:00 -
[47]
Anyone here play MechWarrior on the PC? Remember that the missiles had a range delay on them? Could something along those lines be thought up for missiles perhaps? Say cruise missiles which are speedy quick have a long range but wont be active until they pass 1km from the ship?
Or failing that, stop expecting your Blasterthron to kill everything. Simply a Raven shouldn't lose to a blasterthron as it holds all the cards, it can hit you for all types of damage and it can hit you at any range from 0m to the range of the missile. How about a sniperthron? Ever thought about that? Hold an orbit around the Raven at the rails optimal and just use an AB/MWD to out run the torp shock wave? If that doesn't help fit some launchers yourself and hit for EM and explosive
|
MrCjEvans
|
Posted - 2005.09.17 12:54:00 -
[48]
^^^ very very interesting idea
|
Nadec Ascand
|
Posted - 2005.09.17 13:13:00 -
[49]
Maybe there is nothing wrong with the raven atm
but im surprise to see that the Megatron complain post disapeared (was like 90 pages of post)
Im caldari but flying a tron and a scorp... and must admit my tron sux even more now that evryone is aable to
outdmg me even if im suppose to outdammage evryone at close range (yeah i cant tank nor do a correct longrange setup)
So is the ubber megatron duelist bs dead?
Where are gone the idea of less cap use on blaster ? why does laser use 1/2 the blaster cap and no ammo with best range and best dmg?
and why autocannon do same dmg as me but using no cap (well ok thats not no cpa thats 1 cap...)
Yeah im caldari... and yeah im flying a megatron...
Why coz maybe now only caldary are tough enough to fly those and evryone use caldari ship...
|
Fred0
|
Posted - 2005.09.17 13:45:00 -
[50]
Don't try to both tank and kill. Fit one or the other. I normally have no trouble to solo ravens in a tempest. You just need overpowering dps so that they melt in 20 secs. I know you are limited to two damage types but unless you've been scouted or fly about in gurista territory it should be quite easy.
Oh and also. No feasible long range setup for mega? After the geddon, the mega comes second in long range bs imho.
|
Dreez
|
Posted - 2005.09.17 15:04:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Nadec Ascand
Maybe there is nothing wrong with the raven atm
but im surprise to see that the Megatron complain post disapeared (was like 90 pages of post)
Im caldari but flying a tron and a scorp... and must admit my tron sux even more now that evryone is aable to
outdmg me even if im suppose to outdammage evryone at close range (yeah i cant tank nor do a correct longrange setup)
So is the ubber megatron duelist bs dead?
Where are gone the idea of less cap use on blaster ? why does laser use 1/2 the blaster cap and no ammo with best range and best dmg?
and why autocannon do same dmg as me but using no cap (well ok thats not no cpa thats 1 cap...)
Refering to this old post ?
How About the Mega TomB
I might have ATUK in my tag, but i have OC in my DNA
|
Dr Tetrahydrocannabinol
|
Posted - 2005.09.17 15:30:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Ginger Magician
Its not just one fight its a number of fights against pilots that should in theory be hopelessly outclassed against a pilot of my experience and skill point level but they r not because the raven is overpowered
you sure do seem like it
---------------------------------------------
"Where the air is crisp."
|
LUKEC
|
Posted - 2005.09.17 15:32:00 -
[53]
Well as it stands... mega sux.
It is not megathron itself so much(except that raven has 1k shield more and same armor), but the fact that blasters sux.
Some cherries on the cake are:
1. You cannot fit decent tank and t2 ions. t2 neutrons are out of tanking equation pg wise anyway. Also the fact that good named ions don't drop at ALL (i wonder how many modal ions is in game)...
2. Then there is another nice flaw: t2 dmg mods use 30cpu, t2 hardeners 44 .
3. Dmg type, which is uber tanked in 1/2 galaxy and partialy tanked in the 1/4
4. Falloff sux, medium ACs have same falloff than large ions
5. range vs tracking sux, because tempest might do some dmg at 15km, mega with neutrons is crap at 10km
6. cap usage on blasters and no cap use on launchers.
|
Meeko Gloom
|
Posted - 2005.09.17 15:49:00 -
[54]
off subject  how do u make a sig
|
Ginger Magician
|
Posted - 2005.09.17 16:09:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Ginger Magician on 17/09/2005 16:12:26
Interesting.Very few have said that the mega can win so it seems my point is pretty much proven and after all if I cant kill ravens as the pilot with the most solo bs kills in the history of eve then no one can.
Actually up until a couple of weeks ago i was killing ravens fairly comfortably but if ur unlucky enough to encounter a full pvp setup raven waith a pilot with torp specialistation level 4 and other skills to 4 or 5 then u have no chance and of course as time goes on more and more raven pilots r approaching this level.
One of the main problems now as compared to before is that there is no way to defend against missiles hitting your ship.Torps and cruise misisles r now travelling at incredible speeds and even fitting 2 large smartbombs it is very hard to take out many of them due to the increased rof of lauchers as well.
With a 50% hardener i was being hit for 247 with bane torps - with almost 10000 armor hps, repper 2 pretty much maxed skills for armor repping was still impossible to tank at 2km.Maybe i just fly a raven too but the interesting thing is in the fights i am talking about I didnt lose my ships because ofc the raven has no scramble strength and i warped out in hull both times.
I think many pirates would say they hate the raven and i am one of them even though they can fly it pretty good because its a useless ganker and if u use your med slots for webbing/scrambling then ur ****** for anything else basically.Apart from the scorp it is also has the poorest scan res in the game.
On subject of the scorp this ship is now also hoplessly overpowered due to the ecm changes.I can solo any bs other then a raven with total ease 1v1 in a scorp - if anyone doubts this they r welcome to challenge me too.
So thats the way it is atm Caldari is unbeatable i know balancing is difficult but this is stupid atm.My advice is u got a raven or scorp on your tail run away unless your flying a raven yourself
|
Garreck
|
Posted - 2005.09.17 16:47:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Garreck on 17/09/2005 16:47:56
Originally by: Ginger Magician
Interesting.Very few have said that the mega can win so it seems my point is pretty much proven and after all if I cant kill ravens as the pilot with the most solo bs kills in the history of eve then no one can.
People agreeing with you proves your point? That's fuzzy logic at best.
When engaging a raven, you need to put time on your side. Those missiles don't do instantaneous damage...they have to traverse distance. Keep yourself at a respectable distance from a raven. This does two things for you: it allows you to get "ahead" in the damage race, and it provides you with time to do away with at least some of the torps coming at you.
People underestimate the value of rails on a 'thron.
Try a setup with 6 425s (named, or better still tech 2 if you can fit 'em) 2 rocket launchers with defenders, 2 tracking comps (again, named or tech II) and 3 damage mods.
I only listed items critical to the setup. Do what you wish with your other 2 mid slots and 4 low slots.
With this setup, you should have an optimal of around 40km with antimatter. You'll be doing appreciable damage to the raven, and at 40km you'll be shooting down 2 or 3 torps per volley, limiting HIS damage.
I'm pretty highly trained in megathron specific skills...but try what I just described with even non-named tech I items and see how you like it. The battleship I fear LEAST in Eve is a raven, to be brutally honest...my only concern in my 'thron is to drop out of warp within 20km of a nosferatu-specific setup, or going toe-to-toe with a gank-geddon at its optimal.
Garreck
Aeternus Crusade
Aku. Soku. Zan. |
Jim Raynor
|
Posted - 2005.09.17 16:52:00 -
[57]
tempest with autocannons...... armageddons with pulse... megathron with blasters..... raven with torps.. all very good high dps short range options, why is it if the raven ever wins in a short range fight its unfair? i dont get it.. its not like armageddons with pulse and MF can't wtfomfgbbq a megathron either, no ones complaining about that? ok..
------
FERRET DEMOCRACY |
keepiru
|
Posted - 2005.09.17 17:02:00 -
[58]
This thread is making my brain leak out my ears - though the beer is helping - can someone give ginger his meds so i can go back to my drunken bliss? please? 
-------------
Axe the Thorax's drone bay.
|
Nagarutu Mishima
|
Posted - 2005.09.17 17:11:00 -
[59]
Megathron can take out a raven in 1on1.
I have a mega with 7 425 t2's and loads of dmg mods, ive meet some ravens with **** setup and when i get to hull, the raven usually pop, but then, some ppl got better tanks then others, so ive also ended up at half structure when the raven popped, and once i had to warp out because i would have lost.
The thing is, with right setup and circumstances all bs can kill all bs. But, to keep the balance in the game, you cant win every fight. If you dont chose to fight only when you know you would win. (e.g. go up against a arma with t1 guns whit your t2 gunned apoc/tempest/mega, ore outnumber the enemy, thats a sure win)
I think its somehow balanced atm, im not afraid to meet any bs, but im aware that any bs could aswell kick my ass. The only thing im afraid of in 1on1 today is HAC's.
Dont know if i added anything to this thread but thats my view.
|
Ginger Magician
|
Posted - 2005.09.17 17:23:00 -
[60]
Yes range can help but it is also pointless as has been said in this thread many times the megathron is supposed to be the most damaging close range battleship in eve and the fact is its not.Yes lets all sit at 40km with our 425 tech 2 rails and see how many ravens u will kill
Have u ever heard of warping?
There needs to be more med range options in EVE.The geddon i used to fly was great i could kill anyhting within about 10-20km as far as i can see atm there is no feasible med range ship that u can fly lasers being a total joke now as everyone knows.If ur not within 20km there is no argument - im talking about solo 1v1 combat - that is the only real test- any noob can gank at uneven odds -and outside of 20km combat is irrelevant
|
| |
|
| Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 7 8 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |