EVE Search - RAVEN VS. MEGATHRON

All Channels

Ships and Modules

RAVEN VS. MEGATHRON

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 :: [one page]
Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Ginger Magician	Posted - 2005.09.17 06:54:00 - [1] An unequal contest if ever there was one.As things currently stand on TQ a megathron has no chance whatsoever against a raven whether at range or close up: firstly it cannot tank the damage of a ravens torpedos and secondly it cannot do enough damage to break the shield tank of a raven with a normal defensive minded setup.It may be possible that a raven can be killed by an extreme gank blasterthron with 5-6 mag fields 2 but in the vast majority of fittings and setup used by pvp pilots the raven will always win even with an inferior skilled pilot in the raven. This can't be a good balance for the game and it seems to me that the raven is still overpowered in pvp terms despite all the whining about the new missiles skills.In my vast experience i would say that as a gunnery specialist with over 13million skillpoints in gunnery and able to use all types of tech 2 weapons - a missiles specialist with a far lower number of combat skillpoints can easily hold his own against me and even possibly win if he flies a raven regardless of the gun turret bs that i choose to fly.I feel that this needs looking at - if u have invested so much time in training gunnery skills u shouldnt be able to be easily outmatched by a missiles character with a years less skilling on his side. In roleplay terms i certianly wouldnt want to be Gallente thats for sure Comments and suggetions welcome - if anyone has a setup in which a megathron can beat a raven i would be pleased to give it a try.
Righteous Fury	Posted - 2005.09.17 07:08:00 - [2] you've GOT to be kidding me.
Jim Raynor	Posted - 2005.09.17 07:09:00 - [3] Wow okay so two battleships went head to head with short range setups and the Raven won? I'm sorry is like the Raven not allowed to ever win in PvP or something? ------ FERRET DEMOCRACY
Ginger Magician	Posted - 2005.09.17 07:26:00 - [4] lol 2 caldari lovers
HippoKing	Posted - 2005.09.17 07:30:00 - [5] Originally by: Ginger Magician lol 2 caldari lovers so explain why a raven can't win ANYTHING? what would have been the outcome if you had been in a HAC? what would have been the outcome if you had been in a sniper setup? the raven won a fight close range against another BS? OH NOES! Originally by: TomB Originally by: Einheriar Ulrich Mining in a dreadnaught.....Should be banned /signed
Ginger Magician	Posted - 2005.09.17 07:34:00 - [6] The raven is unbeatable against any turret battleship that armor tanks as it stands atm.Shield is now far too good compared to armor tanking.The only thing i can think that would have a chance and which i will test shortly is a tempest with 800m artillery and shield tanking close range setup but i doubt this will be able to take the damage of a raven but it should do better damage than a megathron
madaluap	Posted - 2005.09.17 07:35:00 - [7] Edited by: madaluap on 17/09/2005 07:37:58 thats a bit odd, even pre-patch killing a raven can be done with electron blaster 2 and not a half decent but a full ubertank in low.. these days im more confident than ever when im flying my mega vs a raven. i will tell you a little trick, which is infact not even a trick. 1. put your mwd on when aproaching when you reach 800 m/s his missiles will start hitting for less. (kin) torps hit for like 344 on your shield! (have done this). 2. dont try to focus too much on damage there is a very thin and i mean thin balance. 3. fit some (2, not more than you can fly domi) nos, actually the same as point 2. dont focus to much on damage. i could easily kill a nosphoon with the standard 4X nos 4X siegebay, same counts for raven with cruisemissiles. i have foughten both in a friendly competition, they knew what i was flying and they setup there ship against my ship, so normally they wouldnt even carry some of that stuff..like freacking tracking disrupters, bastards. 4. there will be a moment when the raven wont have any cap (yes there will) because he has to tank his ass off to sustain, you on the other hand have still some extra capcharges left. summary: its not that hard dude EDIT: spelling errors...arg
Ginger Magician	Posted - 2005.09.17 07:37:00 - [8] Its not just one fight its a number of fights against pilots that should in theory be hopelessly outclassed against a pilot of my experience and skill point level but they r not because the raven is overpowered
Ginger Magician	Posted - 2005.09.17 07:41:00 - [9] madal - i doubt u have fought a raven in the last couple of weeks - the difference now is that they r getting the skills maxed up and they r making a big difference In the cases i am talking about i was heavy tanked with best possible equipment hardners/plates/reppers and i had plenty of cap left the damage being done by ravens now is just incredible - far more than even the sentry guns - it is quite untankable for more than a couple of minutes
Jim Raynor	Posted - 2005.09.17 07:44:00 - [10] Originally by: Ginger Magician Its not just one fight its a number of fights against pilots that should in theory be hopelessly outclassed against a pilot of my experience and skill point level but they r not because the raven is overpowered Ravens not overpowered dude, it's very good against battleships with torpedoes but it's completely defenseless against smaller ships. That being said, a Megathron should still be able to challenge one 1v1, Megathrons do a lot of DPS as well. Perhaps you are fighting Ravens that are using kinetic/thermal hardeners, if thats the case yes the Raven will probably always win. In actual PvP, you need to give up those resists for EM, as it's your weakest resist and lasers will flat out DESTROY your sorry ass without at least one photon scattering fitted. So before you call for nerfs why don't you ask what your uber raven enemy is fitting, cause if its 2x kinetic 2x thermal 1 xl sb 1x amp, yes you will get your ass served to you easily in a Megathron. ------ FERRET DEMOCRACY
Mr Floppyknickers	Posted - 2005.09.17 07:45:00 - [11] Edited by: Mr Floppyknickers on 17/09/2005 07:47:26 I think the issue may be the assumption that the raven, being a torp machine and therefore a more range intensive ship, beating a blasterthron, a known and powerful closerange ship, at close range. It'd be like a celestis out missiling a cacaral. That's the angle. Edit: oh lookie, the next nerf-quest begins. See folks, it never stops at one ship, enjoy!
Jim Raynor	Posted - 2005.09.17 07:46:00 - [12] Edited by: Jim Raynor on 17/09/2005 07:51:45 Originally by: Mr Floppyknickers I think the issue may be the assumption that the raven, being a torp machine and therefore a more range intensive ship, beating a blasterthron, a known and powerful closerange ship, at close range. It'd be like a celestis out missiling a cacaral. That's the angle. torps arent long range in a practical sense. and fyi, the torp raven vs megathron debate has been raging forever, this argument is nothing new, i could take down a megathron with a raven before coldwar just as easy ------ FERRET DEMOCRACY
HippoKing	Posted - 2005.09.17 07:55:00 - [13] Originally by: Mr Floppyknickers I think the issue may be the assumption that the raven, being a torp machine and therefore a more range intensive ship, beating a blasterthron, a known and powerful closerange ship, at close range. It'd be like a celestis out missiling a cacaral. That's the angle. erm, have you tried to use torps at more range? Originally by: TomB Originally by: Einheriar Ulrich Mining in a dreadnaught.....Should be banned /signed
Wrayeth	Posted - 2005.09.17 08:17:00 - [14] Torpedos are useless against players at long range. Period. The player will either warp out or, if he's in a long-range ship, own the raven's tank before the first torp reaches him. This means torpedos are only useful at short range except vs. NPCs. Please do not try to equate NPCing to PvP. -Wrayeth
MouseOnMars	Posted - 2005.09.17 08:34:00 - [15] Originally by: Ginger Magician In my vast experience I'm sorry but am I the only one who found that at least a little bit arrogant. I dunno what went on in this test fight between a mega and a raven, what setups were used, and what skills the pilot had, so I can't really comment on the outcome because I don't have the right kind of information to make a judgement. But I must say that a megathron is more than equally matched in my experience and from what I can tell. For a start, megathrons have the advantage of tech 2 weapon upgrades, drones, and a high DPS as a result. They've also got a good enough facility for armour tank, but that only really starts to get stunning at the expense of weapon upgrades, whereas the Raven can upgrade it's shield tank while still using weapon upgrades, even if they have to be faction or T1. The main unfairness that I see here is with the fact that all the shield capacity upgrades are med slot, whereas armour upgrades are lo slot, which means that a Raven can boost his shield while keeping plenty of lo slots free for weapon upgrades, whereas a Megathron pilot has to choose between defense or offense. That said, all the Blasterthron pilots that I've spoken to have been total nutters, who charge headlong into battle without a second thought. They go for all out damage by just charging right up to the opponent and opening fire. But the stories they return from battle with tell of pretty impressive damage output. I mean, if I had real confidence in my abilities with that kind of setup I'd happily go for it, because the damage output belays the risk. You're talking twice, maybe three times the DPS of a standard tanking Raven, which is way more than they can defend. (I dunno if this is all totally true as I've never tested it out but from what I've heard that's the case)
R31D	Posted - 2005.09.17 08:34:00 - [16] Edited by: R31D on 17/09/2005 08:39:28 I've got a friend who went out into 0.0 one day with his blasterthron. He killed 3 Ravens that day and came back safe. But obviously he must be lying edit: Out of interest, why should one ship be able to easily own another in the same class? Why don't you compare the mega to other ships, why the raven (ok, it might not fair any better, but still)? Free bumpage for all
Tovarishch	Posted - 2005.09.17 08:38:00 - [17] Oh My God... Readers Digest Version - 'Everyone knows that all the Caldari missile boats suck at the moment... so a Raven beating a Megathron is unacceptable'. I wonder what would happen if the Cerberus wound up winning a fight? 'Iceland joins North Korea in nuclear program... more at 10'.
Jim Raynor	Posted - 2005.09.17 08:40:00 - [18] Originally by: Tovarishch Oh My God... Readers Digest Version - 'Everyone knows that all the Caldari missile boats suck at the moment... so a Raven beating a Megathron is unacceptable'. I wonder what would happen if the Cerberus wound up winning a fight? 'Iceland joins North Korea in nuclear program... more at 10'. hey if you spend 600mil in faction modules and train the missile skills to 5 you can kill stuff with a cerberus! ------ FERRET DEMOCRACY
Shadowsword	Posted - 2005.09.17 08:40:00 - [19] The problem is that a raven can use both a full (if short term) tank and 5 ballistics. The only weakness of that setup is it's lack of sustainability, but against a single target, however tanked it is, you don't need sustainability when you have 6 weapons with a native rof modifier and 5 damage mods. With the possible exception of a gankageddon melting the raven and then dying once the torps reach it, if it hasn't warped out, no BS can kill a raven in a 1v1 fight.
Rexthor Hammerfists	Posted - 2005.09.17 08:47:00 - [20] ya.. raven is uber ;) the only ravens strength is its versatility, and other ships can do it even better. torps, well, might work on sisi but on TQ they suck big time. their fitting req forces u to use just ****** up setups. cruises just dont do good dmg, had a red member in a blaster mega holding my cruises for at least a minute, without getting his tank under 80%, until a 2nd mega came in a finished me.
MouseOnMars	Posted - 2005.09.17 08:52:00 - [21] Originally by: Shadowsword With the possible exception of a gankageddon melting the raven and then dying once the torps reach it, if it hasn't warped out, no BS can kill a raven in a 1v1 fight. WRONG. You fail at eve. You're the first person to've actually "lost" a game without an ending and without being on the client at the time. Congratulations, have this re-used golfing trophy I found. Here is a list of the battleships that can defeat a Raven 1v1: Tempest. Megathron. Armageddon. Dominix. Apocalypse. + all faction and elite battleships. Especially the Machariel, which can cast level 1 sht your pants* upon appearing on the battlefield, causing the Raven pilot to go AFK while he mops up his legs and seat area. And don't say they can't because I've witnessed it in person. That's the whole point of eve - it's not a linear "this ship always beats this ship" because it's far more variable than that. And if you don't understand that then well, like I said, you lose.
Joshua Foiritain	Posted - 2005.09.17 09:24:00 - [22] MEgathron > Raven. Actual outcome of course depends on player skills involved ------------------ [Coreli Corporation Mainframe]
Dreez	Posted - 2005.09.17 09:26:00 - [23] OK, i¦ll try to explaining why the Raven beats the blasterthron. First Round : The Raven does not need tracking which meens that its torps will always hit for full damage besides the resist. -- A Blasterthrons guns are dependent on tracking and to be really really upclose, being that close will screw up your tracking if you¦re going in a to high transversal. Second Round : Ravens also does not need to have an MWD equipped to do its job and therefor always have more cap to tank with, it also never have to use its cap for anything else then tank which leaves the ravenpilot able to focus on which torp is doing the most dmg. -- The Blasterthron is forced to use MWD and webb, which cuts its medslots down to 2. This resulting in only 2 slots to use for either scrambler, sensorbooster, Injector or caprechargers. Blasterthrons also have to spend their allready weakened cap into 3 ! areas which covers 1: Navigatiing, 2: Defense, 3: Offense. Round 3 : As mentioned in the previous round, the raven can fit a very decent tank while also fitting a full rack of nasty launchers. Try fitting a full rack of neutrons and a decent tank on the blasterthron without sacrifising all Mags. Round 4 : Raven covers all 4 dmgtypes which is a huge advantage in 1on1s since you will always do your max dmg. Blasterthrons however, are left with Kin/Therm which the shields allready has good resistance to. Did i forget anything, or do i need to stick it in your eyes so you can see that blasterthrons needs some godforsaken work from TomB & Co to be the CQC-ship its ment to be. Anyone that does not, i dare you to proove me wrong. I might have ATUK in my tag, but i have OC in my DNA
Serret	Posted - 2005.09.17 09:33:00 - [24] A gank blasterthron probably would have beaten your full tank 'thron too, seeing as it could put out nearly twice the damage of a torp raven. Onoes! Nerf blasterthrons!
wierchas noobhunter	Posted - 2005.09.17 09:34:00 - [25] Edited by: wierchas noobhunter on 17/09/2005 09:34:46 Originally by: Tovarishch Oh My God... Readers Digest Version - 'Everyone knows that all the Caldari missile boats suck at the moment... so a Raven beating a Megathron is unacceptable'. I wonder what would happen if the Cerberus wound up winning a fight? 'Iceland joins North Korea in nuclear program... more at 10'. raven now is wery nice bs and he can easy take down mega pilot
babylonstew	Posted - 2005.09.17 09:35:00 - [26] Originally by: MouseOnMars [ + all faction and elite battleships. Especially the Machariel, which can cast level 1 sht your pants* upon appearing on the battlefield, causing the Raven pilot to go AFK while he mops up his legs and seat area. im sorry, but that is going in my sig Quoted From MouseOnMars Especially the Machariel, which can cast level 1 sh*t your pants upon appearing on the battlefield
Dreez	Posted - 2005.09.17 09:36:00 - [27] Originally by: Serret A gank blasterthron probably would have beaten your full tank 'thron too, seeing as it could put out nearly twice the damage of a torp raven. Onoes! Nerf blasterthrons! Ive tried 7 neutrons and 5Mags against a Gankaraven, no chanse. I might have ATUK in my tag, but i have OC in my DNA
Serret	Posted - 2005.09.17 09:38:00 - [28] Originally by: Dreez Ive tried 7 neutrons and 5Mags against a Gankaraven, no chanse. The claim was that a full damage-blasterthron would have beaten his tank blasterthron, therefore we must nerf all other blasterthrons as well. Plz to read before replying luv ya kthx.
Dreez	Posted - 2005.09.17 09:52:00 - [29] The way i want the blasterthron to be is that if it comes out of warp within combatrange its gonna rock your world, you¦re suppose to think "Might aswell get my coffee and wait for the ensurance", goodbye goodnight... got my point. If were in an Apoc or raven and i see a blasterthron landing ontop of me, i would not mind that. They are suppose to be the most devistating BS out there ffs since they¦re using Quote: No other turret class can match the sheer destructive power of particle blasters . I might have ATUK in my tag, but i have OC in my DNA
Ithildin	Posted - 2005.09.17 09:59:00 - [30] As always in these debates we have two sides: Pro Gallente - We are supposed to be based around close range blaster primarily, more than anyone we move up close and really personal yet we get nothing for it. Why on earth is the (supposedly) long range Caldari better at close range combat? Pro Caldari - For a very long time now, Caldari battleships have been sub-par compared to other battleships. Recently our ability to slaughter small ships were also taken from us and gave us a rude awakening. Why aren't we allowed, in your eyes, to excel in a battleship vs battleship combat area when we've found one? Do you understand what I am getting at? That a Raven has a chance against a Megathron at very close ranges is just completely wrong, but that the Raven, and Caldari in general, doesn't quite excel in any area, and especially not long range, is also wrong. It is an underlying design fault which is the cause of this, where too many rebalancing turns have been taken without enough consideration for the intent of the two races. With the new wave of ship and race specialization and attempts to make content more and more diverse fromt he Devs, soon enough this will have to be examined. I'd love it if most/all Gallente ships were really really good at drone- and close range combat. Caldari's fortÚ is ECM and Missile (that'd be medium to long range damage, but any range up to long range combat capacity) combat. However, that said it will be difficult to balance four different racial pure combat ships against each other, considering that there's only so many (noticably) different permutations that can be aplied to the different ships. We have 6 combat and damage oriented battleships to balance (I'm counting the Apoc here, as it's tanking capacity is not great enough to place it in the misc category along with the Dominix and Scorpion), and they need to share long, medium and short range. One or two are bound to be left out. -- I'm in to murder, arson, and pillaging. I differe from a soldier in nothing but name and allegience.
Nafri	Posted - 2005.09.17 10:07:00 - [31] fit a smartbomb Your bla bla hit bla bla for bla bla damage. Wanna have some bubu now?
Bigben	Posted - 2005.09.17 10:17:00 - [32] fit this 8 large smartbombds and then just armor handnors and plates and just hav him webbed :) tho raven cant beat a tempest at range manchester united's best ever fan!
Kaeten	Posted - 2005.09.17 10:17:00 - [33] Originally by: Jim Raynor Wow okay so two battleships went head to head with short range setups and the Raven won? I'm sorry is like the Raven not allowed to ever win in PvP or something? considering torps can go over 40km I think the mega SHOULD win at 1km.
Rexthor Hammerfists	Posted - 2005.09.17 10:21:00 - [34] Why There are way better bses then Ravens: First Round: "The Raven does not need tracking which meens that its torps will always hit for full damage besides the resist." Torps hit for WAY less dmg on cruisers and frigs too ofc, a blasterthron would melt cruisers in seconds, once webbed and scrambled - ive seen it workin very well.. also a mega with an mwd running, same for other fast bses, cut the dmg on torps big time, an 800ms fast bs gets hit by an torpedo with torpedos lvl4, and warheads upgrrade lvl4, for 533 dmg, on unhardened targets. Second Round : "Ravens also does not need to have an MWD equipped to do its job and therefor always have more cap to tank with, it also never have to use its cap for anything else then tank which leaves the ravenpilot able to focus on which torp is doing the most dmg." The ravens cap is small compared to other bses, Xlarge shieldbooster use alot of cap and u also need an ab, when u dont have perfect bms as the ravens are stupiud slow and unagil Round 3 : "As mentioned in the previous round, the raven can fit a very decent tank while also fitting a full rack of nasty launchers. Try fitting a full rack of neutrons and a decent tank on the blasterthron without sacrifising all Mags." Sieges have very high fitting reqs, u need power diags to fit em, shieldtank has a very high cpu usage, so u cant fit ballistic controls as u wont have enough cpu. and the old prob with shieldtanking ona caldari ship: - u need for an good shieldtank, and Xlarge shieldbooster, an shieldamp, one em hardener, thermal hardener and an kinetic hardener. now that leaves u with 1 free midslot - but u need a scrambler and an ab. also to run an Xlarge long enough to not getting killed, especially when the enemies use a nos, u need a cap injector, tho u cant rlly fit it anyways.. well u could remove hardeners from ur tank, but its not a tankt hen anymore, and blasters rip through ur shield in seconds. Round 4 : "Raven covers all 4 dmgtypes which is a huge advantage in 1on1s since you will always do your max dmg. Blasterthrons however, are left with Kin/Therm which the shields allready has good resistance to." Changin torps takes 10 seconds, in that 10 seconds the ravens advantage, being able to spit out torps from far, is nullified. in 10 seconds a closeby blastermega has dealt a lot of dmg to u, in 10 secs ur shieldbooster has used alot of dmg from u.
Sandokan	Posted - 2005.09.17 10:28:00 - [35] it realy all depends on skills. If you know your ship then you know what skills the need. Most people train up gunnery skills very high, a caldari pilot will train his missiles skills and most importend... engineering skills! Personly i have about 4.5 mil sp in engineering skills: Energy grid upgrade 5 Energy management 5 Energy system operation 5 Engineering 5 thoos skills are for any race importend for raven also Shield Management Shield operation Shield upgrades Tactical Shield Manipulation Shield compensation Except for 1 i have thoos all on lvl5, this realy makes alot of difference Amour tanked ships don't have any of thoos skills, for them its importend to have Hull upgrades lvl5 (also good for raven) and Repair system lvl5 Then mods and setup are importend, if you can spent alot of isk on your ship, like for a Raven gist harderners, gist amps and gist shield boosters, then you understand how strong a Raven realy can be! Complaining is easy, working on skills is something els... and hell yes i know, CCP changes alot, also for me, i have all laser specialization, we know what happend with lasers, and we know what happend with missiles, i don't complain... i work on my skills to get the ship i use as strong as it can be. And yes i'm high skilled, so what? Check your skills and go for it and don't say a Raven only need missile skills and gunships need so many gunnery skills. Every skill on lvl5 is as good as high prized mod! Maybe people think that a 15 mil sp should easy kill a 35 mil sp guy! its all about skills... cheers
Dreez	Posted - 2005.09.17 10:39:00 - [36] Originally by: Rexthor Hammerfists Why There are way better bses then Ravens: First Round: "The Raven does not need tracking which meens that its torps will always hit for full damage besides the resist." Torps hit for WAY less dmg on cruisers and frigs too ofc, a blasterthron would melt cruisers in seconds, once webbed and scrambled - ive seen it workin very well.. also a mega with an mwd running, same for other fast bses, cut the dmg on torps big time, an 800ms fast bs gets hit by an torpedo with torpedos lvl4, and warheads upgrrade lvl4, for 533 dmg, on unhardened targets. I¦ll remember that and try to contantly run at 800m/s orbeting the raven at 3km in my mega . Second Round : "Ravens also does not need to have an MWD equipped to do its job and therefor always have more cap to tank with, it also never have to use its cap for anything else then tank which leaves the ravenpilot able to focus on which torp is doing the most dmg." The ravens cap is small compared to other bses, Xlarge shieldbooster use alot of cap and u also need an ab, when u dont have perfect bms as the ravens are stupiud slow and unagil Raven - 4250 Cap. Mega - 4500 Cap. Ohhnoes.. Still Mega has to split its 3375 Cap (4500 minus 1125 from MWD) into 3 areas where the raven still only puts his 4250 into sheer tank. . Round 3 : "As mentioned in the previous round, the raven can fit a very decent tank while also fitting a full rack of nasty launchers. Try fitting a full rack of neutrons and a decent tank on the blasterthron without sacrifising all Mags." Sieges have very high fitting reqs, u need power diags to fit em, shieldtank has a very high cpu usage, so u cant fit ballistic controls as u wont have enough cpu. and the old prob with shieldtanking ona caldari ship: - u need for an good shieldtank, and Xlarge shieldbooster, an shieldamp, one em hardener, thermal hardener and an kinetic hardener. You dont "need" a Shieldamp, thats a choise. There are named Shieldboosters. now that leaves u with 1 free midslot - but u need a scrambler and an ab. also to run an Xlarge long enough to not getting killed, especially when the enemies use a nos, u need a cap injector, tho u cant rlly fit it anyways.. well u could remove hardeners from ur tank, but its not a tankt hen anymore, and blasters rip through ur shield in seconds. Round 4 : "Raven covers all 4 dmgtypes which is a huge advantage in 1on1s since you will always do your max dmg. Blasterthrons however, are left with Kin/Therm which the shields allready has good resistance to." Changin torps takes 10 seconds, in that 10 seconds the ravens advantage, being able to spit out torps from far, is nullified. in 10 seconds a closeby blastermega has dealt a lot of dmg to u, in 10 secs ur shieldbooster has used alot of dmg from u. Nice try thou. I might have ATUK in my tag, but i have OC in my DNA
Deja Thoris	Posted - 2005.09.17 10:52:00 - [37] First a mild rant. 13mill SP in gunnery? Not all of them are hybrids right? So your brag is not relevent. To kill a raven you need to do two things (doh!) - Tank the damage - Kill his tank Is it conceivable you can nos the crap out of him? No cap = no hardners = no shield boosting Would something crazy like 4 nos, 3 blasters and 10 heavy drones fail outright? Or you could just fly a raven. A pilot of your vast experience and insurmountable piloting prowess should be able to kill them in the same ship
xOm3gAx	Posted - 2005.09.17 10:54:00 - [38] you gotta be kidding me... ive flown them both and in both cases it depends in a very large way about 3 main things 1) pilot skill points 2) ship setup 3) pilot competance ----------------- Decloaks and starts blasting your sig Applesauce Biotch Ok who nerf batted my sig >again<? ^^Bows^^ ^^ALL HAIL THE UBERNESS OF Thee^^ Succumb to your nightmares Darkness
Soros	Posted - 2005.09.17 10:57:00 - [39] I saw a friend take down an atuk raven with his blasterthron. don't whine.... -= Soros =- BoB
FireFoxx80	Posted - 2005.09.17 11:00:00 - [40] Point is as well, the further you get from a Raven the more advantage you have, as your damage to him is instantaneous. 23? # Missile Tool # ex: P-TMC : USAC
ParMizaN	Posted - 2005.09.17 11:00:00 - [41] lol. Eve subscription currently cancelled
Captain Rod	Posted - 2005.09.17 11:09:00 - [42] Originally by: MouseOnMars Originally by: Ginger Magician In my vast experience I'm sorry but am I the only one who found that at least a little bit arrogant. Hehehe. The vast experience of gate sniping noobs in frigs and cruisers with a tech II laid out APOC form 150km away in empire. Vastly inappropriate experience. You fight an experienced and well trained Raven pilot, you loose. If you pick your fights wisely you should win.
JOSEPHx	Posted - 2005.09.17 11:09:00 - [43] I dont understand.. 1 minute the raven is rubbish because of missile nerf 10 minutes later it is too powerfull??? you could always try EW/NOS domi, but if the domi wins should that get nerfed as well? Oh noes, my ship cant beat his, mummy dont make me have to think about tactics it hurts my head ----
Loka	Posted - 2005.09.17 11:53:00 - [44] its not the raven imp, its the blaters. They really sux compared to other guns. a friend of me with good BS skills land 20km from me on SISI. I was in a named 425mm Gankathron and he named blasters. Until he was in 5km raneg he was already in hull and my drones finished him off. I survived with half armor after this. The blasters should do devastating dmg closeup, thats my point, but they dont. The theoretical dmg is high, but the dmg in real isnt that high, because of the combat range + worse tracking at closeup. Increasing the tracking of Blasters would do the trick imo. _________________________ Dead or Alive
Dreez	Posted - 2005.09.17 12:05:00 - [45] Originally by: Loka its not the raven imp, its the blasters. They really sux compared to other guns. a friend of me with good BS skills land 20km from me on SISI. I was in a named 425mm Gankathron and he named blasters. Until he was in 5km raneg he was already in hull and my drones finished him off. I survived with half armor after this. The blasters should do devastating dmg closeup, thats my point, but they dont. The theoretical dmg is high, but the dmg in real isnt that high, because of the combat range + worse tracking at closeup. Increasing the tracking of Blasters would do the trick imo. Amen I might have ATUK in my tag, but i have OC in my DNA
Krulla	Posted - 2005.09.17 12:09:00 - [46] Originally by: Ginger Magician Its not just one fight its a number of fights against pilots that should in theory be hopelessly outclassed against a pilot of my experience and skill point level but they r not because the raven is overpowered So you screwed up, and the raven should be nerfed? Gotcha. Respect the Domi. Or else.
Huskar	Posted - 2005.09.17 12:15:00 - [47] Anyone here play MechWarrior on the PC? Remember that the missiles had a range delay on them? Could something along those lines be thought up for missiles perhaps? Say cruise missiles which are speedy quick have a long range but wont be active until they pass 1km from the ship? Or failing that, stop expecting your Blasterthron to kill everything. Simply a Raven shouldn't lose to a blasterthron as it holds all the cards, it can hit you for all types of damage and it can hit you at any range from 0m to the range of the missile. How about a sniperthron? Ever thought about that? Hold an orbit around the Raven at the rails optimal and just use an AB/MWD to out run the torp shock wave? If that doesn't help fit some launchers yourself and hit for EM and explosive
MrCjEvans	Posted - 2005.09.17 12:54:00 - [48] ^^^ very very interesting idea
Nadec Ascand	Posted - 2005.09.17 13:13:00 - [49] Maybe there is nothing wrong with the raven atm but im surprise to see that the Megatron complain post disapeared (was like 90 pages of post) Im caldari but flying a tron and a scorp... and must admit my tron sux even more now that evryone is aable to outdmg me even if im suppose to outdammage evryone at close range (yeah i cant tank nor do a correct longrange setup) So is the ubber megatron duelist bs dead? Where are gone the idea of less cap use on blaster ? why does laser use 1/2 the blaster cap and no ammo with best range and best dmg? and why autocannon do same dmg as me but using no cap (well ok thats not no cpa thats 1 cap...) Yeah im caldari... and yeah im flying a megatron... Why coz maybe now only caldary are tough enough to fly those and evryone use caldari ship...
Fred0	Posted - 2005.09.17 13:45:00 - [50] Don't try to both tank and kill. Fit one or the other. I normally have no trouble to solo ravens in a tempest. You just need overpowering dps so that they melt in 20 secs. I know you are limited to two damage types but unless you've been scouted or fly about in gurista territory it should be quite easy. Oh and also. No feasible long range setup for mega? After the geddon, the mega comes second in long range bs imho.
Dreez	Posted - 2005.09.17 15:04:00 - [51] Originally by: Nadec Ascand Maybe there is nothing wrong with the raven atm but im surprise to see that the Megatron complain post disapeared (was like 90 pages of post) Im caldari but flying a tron and a scorp... and must admit my tron sux even more now that evryone is aable to outdmg me even if im suppose to outdammage evryone at close range (yeah i cant tank nor do a correct longrange setup) So is the ubber megatron duelist bs dead? Where are gone the idea of less cap use on blaster ? why does laser use 1/2 the blaster cap and no ammo with best range and best dmg? and why autocannon do same dmg as me but using no cap (well ok thats not no cpa thats 1 cap...) Refering to this old post ? How About the Mega TomB I might have ATUK in my tag, but i have OC in my DNA
Dr Tetrahydrocannabinol	Posted - 2005.09.17 15:30:00 - [52] Originally by: Ginger Magician Its not just one fight its a number of fights against pilots that should in theory be hopelessly outclassed against a pilot of my experience and skill point level but they r not because the raven is overpowered you sure do seem like it --------------------------------------------- "Where the air is crisp."
LUKEC	Posted - 2005.09.17 15:32:00 - [53] Well as it stands... mega sux. It is not megathron itself so much(except that raven has 1k shield more and same armor), but the fact that blasters sux. Some cherries on the cake are: 1. You cannot fit decent tank and t2 ions. t2 neutrons are out of tanking equation pg wise anyway. Also the fact that good named ions don't drop at ALL (i wonder how many modal ions is in game)... 2. Then there is another nice flaw: t2 dmg mods use 30cpu, t2 hardeners 44. 3. Dmg type, which is uber tanked in 1/2 galaxy and partialy tanked in the 1/4 4. Falloff sux, medium ACs have same falloff than large ions 5. range vs tracking sux, because tempest might do some dmg at 15km, mega with neutrons is crap at 10km 6. cap usage on blasters and no cap use on launchers.
Meeko Gloom	Posted - 2005.09.17 15:49:00 - [54] off subject how do u make a sig
Ginger Magician	Posted - 2005.09.17 16:09:00 - [55] Edited by: Ginger Magician on 17/09/2005 16:12:26 Interesting.Very few have said that the mega can win so it seems my point is pretty much proven and after all if I cant kill ravens as the pilot with the most solo bs kills in the history of eve then no one can. Actually up until a couple of weeks ago i was killing ravens fairly comfortably but if ur unlucky enough to encounter a full pvp setup raven waith a pilot with torp specialistation level 4 and other skills to 4 or 5 then u have no chance and of course as time goes on more and more raven pilots r approaching this level. One of the main problems now as compared to before is that there is no way to defend against missiles hitting your ship.Torps and cruise misisles r now travelling at incredible speeds and even fitting 2 large smartbombs it is very hard to take out many of them due to the increased rof of lauchers as well. With a 50% hardener i was being hit for 247 with bane torps - with almost 10000 armor hps, repper 2 pretty much maxed skills for armor repping was still impossible to tank at 2km.Maybe i just fly a raven too but the interesting thing is in the fights i am talking about I didnt lose my ships because ofc the raven has no scramble strength and i warped out in hull both times. I think many pirates would say they hate the raven and i am one of them even though they can fly it pretty good because its a useless ganker and if u use your med slots for webbing/scrambling then ur ****** for anything else basically.Apart from the scorp it is also has the poorest scan res in the game. On subject of the scorp this ship is now also hoplessly overpowered due to the ecm changes.I can solo any bs other then a raven with total ease 1v1 in a scorp - if anyone doubts this they r welcome to challenge me too. So thats the way it is atm Caldari is unbeatable i know balancing is difficult but this is stupid atm.My advice is u got a raven or scorp on your tail run away unless your flying a raven yourself
Garreck	Posted - 2005.09.17 16:47:00 - [56] Edited by: Garreck on 17/09/2005 16:47:56 Originally by: Ginger Magician Interesting.Very few have said that the mega can win so it seems my point is pretty much proven and after all if I cant kill ravens as the pilot with the most solo bs kills in the history of eve then no one can. People agreeing with you proves your point? That's fuzzy logic at best. When engaging a raven, you need to put time on your side. Those missiles don't do instantaneous damage...they have to traverse distance. Keep yourself at a respectable distance from a raven. This does two things for you: it allows you to get "ahead" in the damage race, and it provides you with time to do away with at least some of the torps coming at you. People underestimate the value of rails on a 'thron. Try a setup with 6 425s (named, or better still tech 2 if you can fit 'em) 2 rocket launchers with defenders, 2 tracking comps (again, named or tech II) and 3 damage mods. I only listed items critical to the setup. Do what you wish with your other 2 mid slots and 4 low slots. With this setup, you should have an optimal of around 40km with antimatter. You'll be doing appreciable damage to the raven, and at 40km you'll be shooting down 2 or 3 torps per volley, limiting HIS damage. I'm pretty highly trained in megathron specific skills...but try what I just described with even non-named tech I items and see how you like it. The battleship I fear LEAST in Eve is a raven, to be brutally honest...my only concern in my 'thron is to drop out of warp within 20km of a nosferatu-specific setup, or going toe-to-toe with a gank-geddon at its optimal. Garreck Aeternus Crusade Aku. Soku. Zan.
Jim Raynor	Posted - 2005.09.17 16:52:00 - [57] tempest with autocannons...... armageddons with pulse... megathron with blasters..... raven with torps.. all very good high dps short range options, why is it if the raven ever wins in a short range fight its unfair? i dont get it.. its not like armageddons with pulse and MF can't wtfomfgbbq a megathron either, no ones complaining about that? ok.. ------ FERRET DEMOCRACY
keepiru	Posted - 2005.09.17 17:02:00 - [58] This thread is making my brain leak out my ears - though the beer is helping - can someone give ginger his meds so i can go back to my drunken bliss? please? ------------- Axe the Thorax's drone bay.
Nagarutu Mishima	Posted - 2005.09.17 17:11:00 - [59] Megathron can take out a raven in 1on1. I have a mega with 7 425 t2's and loads of dmg mods, ive meet some ravens with **** setup and when i get to hull, the raven usually pop, but then, some ppl got better tanks then others, so ive also ended up at half structure when the raven popped, and once i had to warp out because i would have lost. The thing is, with right setup and circumstances all bs can kill all bs. But, to keep the balance in the game, you cant win every fight. If you dont chose to fight only when you know you would win. (e.g. go up against a arma with t1 guns whit your t2 gunned apoc/tempest/mega, ore outnumber the enemy, thats a sure win) I think its somehow balanced atm, im not afraid to meet any bs, but im aware that any bs could aswell kick my ass. The only thing im afraid of in 1on1 today is HAC's. Dont know if i added anything to this thread but thats my view.
Ginger Magician	Posted - 2005.09.17 17:23:00 - [60] Yes range can help but it is also pointless as has been said in this thread many times the megathron is supposed to be the most damaging close range battleship in eve and the fact is its not.Yes lets all sit at 40km with our 425 tech 2 rails and see how many ravens u will kill Have u ever heard of warping? There needs to be more med range options in EVE.The geddon i used to fly was great i could kill anyhting within about 10-20km as far as i can see atm there is no feasible med range ship that u can fly lasers being a total joke now as everyone knows.If ur not within 20km there is no argument - im talking about solo 1v1 combat - that is the only real test- any noob can gank at uneven odds -and outside of 20km combat is irrelevant
Rusty Bullethole	Posted - 2005.09.17 17:23:00 - [61] Its funny how some (if not most) players think just because they have allot of Gun SP points they have to beat all those that oppose him/her, without realizing only the weapon used is what the SP applies to (except for the core gun skills) and then comes setup types, ranges player reaction and decission making. Many variables come into play in this game which is one of the many reason Eve-Online is just a great game, now are there BS'ers that are stronger (per say) than others sure, however only if you play to your opponents strengths and not yours. I read so many posts about how they lost or how a type of ship sucks and isnt ment for PvP. The fact is reguardless of the BS if its Raven, Temp, Apoc, Mega ..etc.. they all have their strong and weak spots its how they are played, which is WHY i hate players that just because they "TEST" and the outcome isnt in their favor as they may have hoped for then their setup is useless or the ship they used suck, well DUH! its a "test" the real "TEST" comes in when you fight without warning without pre-setups how well you respond to the situation, warping out is always an alternative knowing when and when not to engage takes knowledge, its just amazing how so many players forget that no ship is really "BEST" per say, yes some ships have their "ROLES" however that does not make them "BEST". anyway just my .02 ISK.
Shaemell Buttleson	Posted - 2005.09.17 17:55:00 - [62] Originally by: MouseOnMars Originally by: Ginger Magician In my vast experience I'm sorry but am I the only one who found that at least a little bit arrogant. No but thats our Ginger.
Hephaesteus	Posted - 2005.09.17 18:24:00 - [63] I had a mock fight with a corp mate, me in my meg him in his raven. He told me what type of torps he would be firing so I tanked accordingly he knew he was facing a meg so he did the same. The outcome was incredible I had run out of cap and he was into my hull before we stopped, but he had all weapons firing 2/3 cap left and I never got him past 1/2 shield. I was using tech 2 guns he was using t2 launchers. The thing that really bugs me is, I have more sp in gunnery than he has in missles but he kicks my a$$ like i'm a noob. I mean come on tell me thats right the fight should have been a lot closer than that.
Hephaesteus	Posted - 2005.09.17 18:29:00 - [64] Originally by: Rusty Bullethole Its funny how some (if not most) players think just because they have allot of Gun SP points they have to beat all those that oppose him/her, without realizing only the weapon used is what the SP applies to (except for the core gun skills) and then comes setup types, ranges player reaction and decission making. Many variables come into play in this game which is one of the many reason Eve-Online is just a great game, now are there BS'ers that are stronger (per say) than others sure, however only if you play to your opponents strengths and not yours. I read so many posts about how they lost or how a type of ship sucks and isnt ment for PvP. The fact is reguardless of the BS if its Raven, Temp, Apoc, Mega ..etc.. they all have their strong and weak spots its how they are played, which is WHY i hate players that just because they "TEST" and the outcome isnt in their favor as they may have hoped for then their setup is useless or the ship they used suck, well DUH! its a "test" the real "TEST" comes in when you fight without warning without pre-setups how well you respond to the situation, warping out is always an alternative knowing when and when not to engage takes knowledge, its just amazing how so many players forget that no ship is really "BEST" per say, yes some ships have their "ROLES" however that does not make them "BEST". anyway just my .02 ISK. So what you saying everytime a meg pilot sees a raven he should run.
Jim Raynor	Posted - 2005.09.17 18:30:00 - [65] Originally by: Hephaesteus Originally by: Rusty Bullethole Its funny how some (if not most) players think just because they have allot of Gun SP points they have to beat all those that oppose him/her, without realizing only the weapon used is what the SP applies to (except for the core gun skills) and then comes setup types, ranges player reaction and decission making. Many variables come into play in this game which is one of the many reason Eve-Online is just a great game, now are there BS'ers that are stronger (per say) than others sure, however only if you play to your opponents strengths and not yours. I read so many posts about how they lost or how a type of ship sucks and isnt ment for PvP. The fact is reguardless of the BS if its Raven, Temp, Apoc, Mega ..etc.. they all have their strong and weak spots its how they are played, which is WHY i hate players that just because they "TEST" and the outcome isnt in their favor as they may have hoped for then their setup is useless or the ship they used suck, well DUH! its a "test" the real "TEST" comes in when you fight without warning without pre-setups how well you respond to the situation, warping out is always an alternative knowing when and when not to engage takes knowledge, its just amazing how so many players forget that no ship is really "BEST" per say, yes some ships have their "ROLES" however that does not make them "BEST". anyway just my .02 ISK. So what you saying everytime a meg pilot sees a raven he should run. should a raven run everytime he sees a megathron? ------ FERRET DEMOCRACY
Hephaesteus	Posted - 2005.09.17 18:41:00 - [66] Originally by: Jim Raynor Originally by: Hephaesteus Originally by: Rusty Bullethole Its funny how some (if not most) players think just because they have allot of Gun SP points they have to beat all those that oppose him/her, without realizing only the weapon used is what the SP applies to (except for the core gun skills) and then comes setup types, ranges player reaction and decission making. Many variables come into play in this game which is one of the many reason Eve-Online is just a great game, now are there BS'ers that are stronger (per say) than others sure, however only if you play to your opponents strengths and not yours. I read so many posts about how they lost or how a type of ship sucks and isnt ment for PvP. The fact is reguardless of the BS if its Raven, Temp, Apoc, Mega ..etc.. they all have their strong and weak spots its how they are played, which is WHY i hate players that just because they "TEST" and the outcome isnt in their favor as they may have hoped for then their setup is useless or the ship they used suck, well DUH! its a "test" the real "TEST" comes in when you fight without warning without pre-setups how well you respond to the situation, warping out is always an alternative knowing when and when not to engage takes knowledge, its just amazing how so many players forget that no ship is really "BEST" per say, yes some ships have their "ROLES" however that does not make them "BEST". anyway just my .02 ISK. So what you saying everytime a meg pilot sees a raven he should run. should a raven run everytime he sees a megathron? No the Raven pilot would prob laugh his a$$ off thinking its only a meg.
Jasmine Constantine	Posted - 2005.09.17 18:44:00 - [67] Well funnily enough the thread starter is more or less right as far as it goes. I actually spent quite a while on the test server prior to the last mirror trying to kill a competantly flown torp Raven with my Megathron and I only managed to do it with EW trickery. The issue is that the Raven scores full damage hits and can pick the greatest yield ammo and doesn't pay any cap to fire. If its a sensible Raven (ie one with 800 cap charges to power its tank) then there is no way a Megathron will overcome its tank before it dies unless it can do something to interrupt the flow of torps. EW is an option. Smartbombs an option. Raw damage is not an option. I've got maximum skills in gallente BS and weaponry and tech2 drones btw. Its literally impossible to squeeze out more damage than I do with a Mega. So yeah ... in that circumstance the Raven outdamages and out-tanks the Megathron and a blasterthron has no real chance. But then again. I don't think thats actually a bad thing. I like ship differentiation and racial specialty. I like the fact my Mega can blow the crap out of frigs and cruisers and the Raven can't. I like the fact I've got an AB on my rig and a large NOS and a decent tank for reasonable usage. I like the fact I can outlast gankaggedons and tempests and such. I think the Raven torpedo boat loadout with heavy shield tank and low slot ballistic mods is the state of the art in battleship destruction at the moment but it is vulnerable to non battleship attackers and it does have weaknesses. I think the balance is fine as it is and moaning about it is pointless. The poor old caldari have a lot of crap ships as it is and its nice for them to have something they do well. _________________ Shoot Tyrants - join Jericho Fraction!
Garreck	Posted - 2005.09.17 18:53:00 - [68] Originally by: Ginger Magician Yes range can help but it is also pointless as has been said in this thread many times the megathron is supposed to be the most damaging close range battleship in eve and the fact is its not.Yes lets all sit at 40km with our 425 tech 2 rails and see how many ravens u will kill Have u ever heard of warping? There needs to be more med range options in EVE.The geddon i used to fly was great i could kill anyhting within about 10-20km as far as i can see atm there is no feasible med range ship that u can fly lasers being a total joke now as everyone knows.If ur not within 20km there is no argument - im talking about solo 1v1 combat - that is the only real test- any noob can gank at uneven odds -and outside of 20km combat is irrelevant Perhaps the majority of 'thron users are mistaken...perhaps the 'thron does more lend itself to being a rail platform? You're right: you can't scramble from 40km. I'll tell you what you can do, though: you can follow when your opponent warps away. If he safespots, you win by default. If he doesn't, you continually wear him down at each location, eventually killing him. Yes, ravens take a good long time to align for warp. Plenty of time for a proper rail-thron to do wicked enough damage. Patience and persistance. And then there's the simple reality that nobody wants to accept: a 1v1 is about the least common, most impractical combat encounter. Duels are always a bad idea (the pilot who knows more about the opponent's setup will win 9 times out of 10) and how often do combat pilots really find themselves in a 1v1? Small skirmishes are more often the norm...and, yes, a megathron pilot should have some sort of tackler working with him. But we're not talking about running or not...we're talking about the actual damage output of a raven vs a megathron. I'm merely establishing that you are wrong: the Raven does not have a distinct edge on the megathron. Garreck Aeternus Crusade Aku. Soku. Zan.
Safid Gorbet	Posted - 2005.09.17 19:10:00 - [69] Just had to post this [ 2005.09.17 07:03:35 ] Ginger Magician > hi [ 2005.09.17 07:03:42 ] Ginger Magician > your raven is ******* overpowered [ 2005.09.17 07:03:47 ] Ginger Magician > a noob owned me just now [ 2005.09.17 07:04:04 ] Safid Gorbet > lol what about the missile nerf? [ 2005.09.17 07:04:11 ] Ginger Magician > there is no nerf [ 2005.09.17 07:04:23 ] Ginger Magician > no turret bs can win against a missiles specialist [ 2005.09.17 07:04:25 ] Ginger Magician > its not fair [ 2005.09.17 07:04:35 ] Ginger Magician > torps just cant be tanked [ 2005.09.17 07:04:51 ] Safid Gorbet > stay away from them then [ 2005.09.17 07:05:02 ] Ginger Magician > that damage u did to me the other day was extraordinary some people just cant deal with the fact that they are not as good as they think they are.
Ginger Magician	Posted - 2005.09.17 19:42:00 - [70] I am the best and few would privately dispute it but as things stand atm raven users are unbeateable in 1v1 even though they r far inferior skilled in terms of total combat skillpoints than a player like me.Safid u told me yourself that u have only 3.5mill skilpoints in missiles and the player that owned me in the fight i was reffering to there told me he had 6.5mill sps in missiles and didnt have caldari bs 5. I have no objection to a real specialist missile user with most skills at 4/5 and caldari bs 5 being hard to beat in a raven that is only fair but what about gunnery users - i am approaching now 13.5mill sps and against skilled raven pilots i have no chance to win unless i also fly a raven myself and throw away the years of training gunnery skills - THAT is what i find unfair and object to.You also told me in that convo that megathrons r useless in your opinion and that u had never lost a fight to a megathron pilot - this speaks volumes.
Fred0	Posted - 2005.09.17 19:53:00 - [71] If you land really close and have total gank fitting you should win.
Jim Raynor	Posted - 2005.09.17 19:53:00 - [72] Originally by: Ginger Magician I am the best and few would privately dispute ROFL ------ FERRET DEMOCRACY
keepiru	Posted - 2005.09.17 19:58:00 - [73] Originally by: Ginger Magician I am the best and few would privately dispute Im printing that out and pinning it to my wall. Whenever I feel down I'll have something hilarious to look at. ------------- Axe the Thorax's drone bay.
Garreck	Posted - 2005.09.17 20:03:00 - [74] Originally by: Ginger Magician I am the best and few would privately dispute it Oof. You must be a glutton for punishment, mate. Making statements like this whilst simultaneously maintaining that a Raven is unbeatable in 1v1 is just asking for abuse. Garreck Aeternus Crusade Aku. Soku. Zan.
Dimitri Forgroth	Posted - 2005.09.17 20:07:00 - [75] Edited by: Dimitri Forgroth on 17/09/2005 20:06:48 Thanks, you made my day. Originally by: HippoKing YES! i am in antoher person;s sig /marks it off taking over the world one sig at a time \o/ DPS Sheet
Megadon	Posted - 2005.09.17 20:49:00 - [76] Man, the naivety of believing that a head to head fight between two like classes of ships determines what is unbalanced and balanced is astounding! The game just doesn't work that way! Yet people post this stuff everyday. Following the same logic, you could make this ridiculous arguement about every ship in Eve. Ginger, you sound like you would only be happy if all cruisers had the same DPS output and tanking ability, all BS's had the same DPS output and tanking etc etc etc. Let's make all ship classes of all races the same in damage dealt and tanking! That would suck. Raven's get taken down by Megathrons, assault frigs, all kinds of ships every day. But, because you have one encounter and get pwned, you whine. Ya big sissy. Ginger - a perfect example of someone who can shoot but can't think.
Tovarishch	Posted - 2005.09.17 21:16:00 - [77] Originally by: Ginger Magician I am the best and few would privately dispute it. This comment has single-handedly summed up the quality of this thread... while simultaneously entertaining it's readers. We all thank you for the clarification.
Bracius	Posted - 2005.09.17 22:04:00 - [78] SMARTBOMBS DONT KILL THE TORPS. I just contributed 0 to this topic :)
Kaeten	Posted - 2005.09.17 22:11:00 - [79] what the hell is a smartbomb gonna do when you are 2km away fro ma raven? Only thing your gonna do is bomb your own drones, so smartbomb ain't an option here tbh (I'm talking blasters). raven with cruise and light tank > 425mm t2 with antimatter
Gronsak	Posted - 2005.09.17 22:23:00 - [80] u guys are missing the point i dont think the guy who started teh thred is complaining that a mega doesnt beat a raven] he is saying, taht the mega in IDEAL conditions, will not beat the raven my t2 kitted blasterthron with neutrons and a decent tank CANT beat a raven if its setup correctly to prove this point i got our ceo in his mega with 10mil SP in gunnry and galante BS 5 (total 27mils SP) with a blaster fitting to fight a 10mil SP raven pilot. and they started at 5km optimal for the blasters. guess what, the mega was pawned shield tanks with cap injecter is jsut too uber atm, as u can run ur shield booster for ever using cap injecters with 800s TBH somehow make cap injecters impossible to fit on shield tanked ships
Shaemell Buttleson	Posted - 2005.09.17 22:56:00 - [81] Originally by: Gronsak u guys are missing the point i dont think the guy who started teh thred is complaining that a mega doesnt beat a raven] he is saying, taht the mega in IDEAL conditions, will not beat the raven my t2 kitted blasterthron with neutrons and a decent tank CANT beat a raven if its setup correctly to prove this point i got our ceo in his mega with 10mil SP in gunnry and galante BS 5 (total 27mils SP) with a blaster fitting to fight a 10mil SP raven pilot. and they started at 5km optimal for the blasters. guess what, the mega was pawned shield tanks with cap injecter is jsut too uber atm, as u can run ur shield booster for ever using cap injecters with 800s TBH somehow make cap injecters impossible to fit on shield tanked ships I am sorry but it doesnt prove anything. Yes the Raven probably is the best 1v1 in close up situation. 1 type of ship will ultimately be king in certain types of engagements. But there are ways to counter it. If you used racial jammers on a raven or even multis for that matter you will totaly neutralise it as siege launchers can't fire FOF and if it was fitted with cruise launchers and it had FOF cruise any BS pilot with decent skills should be able to tank that. As for cap injectors I am not sure how many a raven pilot could carry and also have a decent amount of torps or cruise with them. They take up loads of room. At the end of the day there is not going to be 1 BS that will win all engagements every time. Eve is like the scissors paper stone game and half the battle is second guessing what your opponents will use against you. There are plenty of pilots who will go head to head with ravens in other types of battleships and win just as the Raven will win in some battles. Ew is certainly 1 answer to this and as Ginger said it's hard to go up against Scorps as well. No person in another BS will ever say that a scorp will totaly own another BS though as the DOT possible on a Scorp is small compared to all others. A pilot flying a Tristan in syndicate who was only a few months old totaly owned pilots in Af's and Intis in the last week who had at least double the experience and points. I dont know the details but when the guy was finaly killed in his ship the killmail showed he had quite an unusuall setup that nobody would really have expected and therefore hadn't setup their ships to counter. On paper and with the skills no way should this guy have won ever against these T2 frigs and their T2 weaponry but he did. Take a leaf out of his book and adapt or dont engage a Raven in circumstances you know you will lose.
danneh	Posted - 2005.09.17 23:31:00 - [82] My corp mates were testing the other day a raven pilot with maxxed skills couldnt take down his megathron unless using faction modules.
Magnum III	Posted - 2005.09.18 04:58:00 - [83] So if you think a RAVEN is so good then why don't you just get a RAVEN? Either way the MEGATHRON will get you the babes! It is one sweet looking ride. P.S. Magnum III AKA Magnum VII
Ginger Magician	Posted - 2005.09.18 05:11:00 - [84] Yes im perfectly happy to fly a raven once ccp give me back my 13.5million sps in gunnery and let me reallocate them to missiles skills i will do so too and pigs might fly one day too
Stormfront	Posted - 2005.09.18 05:28:00 - [85] Gotta agree with Ginger Magician here. BEfore Coldwar/missile "nerf", my gallente spec char could beat a Raven using cap boosters and 1 large smartbomb. Needed the cap boosters and TWO large reps with 3 hardners to keep the tank long enough to kill Raven. That Raven was flown by my alt with Caldari BS 3 and Torps 3. After the patch, Torps 4, Caldari BS 3, all new missile skills at 1 or 2, my Megathron loses 8/10 fights when I go up close. The Raven doesn't even fit cap boosters, the MEGATHRON in tank mode ALWAYS has to. And both my accounts can fly Caldari BS to some extent lvl 3 and 4. But they are specced in Amarr and Gallente. And unfortunately, the blaster fitted Megathron is a VERY weak/niche ship. That doesn't even do exceptionally well in its on niche.
Kalast Raven	Posted - 2005.09.18 08:30:00 - [86] Originally by: Ginger Magician Edited by: Ginger Magician on 17/09/2005 16:12:26 With a 50% hardener i was being hit for 247 with bane torps - Get a 55% hardener ------- K. Raven
Hephaesteus	Posted - 2005.09.18 08:34:00 - [87] Originally by: Kalast Raven Originally by: Ginger Magician Edited by: Ginger Magician on 17/09/2005 16:12:26 With a 50% hardener i was being hit for 247 with bane torps - Get a 55% hardener Coz that extra 5% makes all the difference.
FireFoxx80	Posted - 2005.09.18 08:54:00 - [88] Point is, the Mega can out-range the Raven. 23? # Missile Tool # ex: P-TMC : USAC
Hephaesteus	Posted - 2005.09.18 09:31:00 - [89] Originally by: FireFoxx80 Point is, the Mega can out-range the Raven. So what!!! Will a Raven pilot lose his tank at range, can a meg use his extra drones and will the meg pilot be able to scramble him. Go on have a guess. For the best short range ship in exsistance the meg sucks to Raven pilots with less skills.
Rage Hander	Posted - 2005.09.18 09:56:00 - [90] Edited by: Rage Hander on 18/09/2005 09:57:06 Raven can deal HUGE damage, and ANY type of damage. It's tank is awsome! Do not use so much cap. Can use drones. Can solo lvl4 missions. You can do whatever you want even with not so high skills. Short Range Megathron: can't tank, MUST use MWD and webber, while approaching to optimal range is almost dead, because of all incoming missiles, use A LOT of cap! can do ONLY kin/therm damage!!! If use drones they will be all dead in a couple of seconds Long Range Megathron: can't tank, MUST use long range ammo (like iron) and those ammo have a ridicule damage!! can't beat raven's tank! Can't use drones at that range! Megathron sux at any range. Raven is overpowered. Full stop. And for those who said raven can't beat little ships... that's not true! If at range it can do it easily, if not... do you know what smartbombs are?? 1 or 2 can easily destroy any frigates/cruisers, no matter how many they are! Then the launchers can destroy anything else! I don't think raven should be nerfed, but at least megathron should have more cap, more armor, more efficient ammo!! (more damage or VARIOUS damage)
Kai Lae	Posted - 2005.09.18 11:32:00 - [91] 2x medium smartbomb FTW, fire from about 6k. Haven't seen a retest but before the missile changes this would destroy all of the torpedoes before they'd even hit you.
Dreez	Posted - 2005.09.18 11:45:00 - [92] I belive that for CCP to solve this issue in a good way, they need to change the Megathrons 2:nd bonus to an MWD-type of bonus that gives you -5% less Cappenalty by MWD and at the same time , give a significant trackingboost to blasters while at the same time increase their dmg. Problem solved, blasterthrons are king of the CQC as it should be. I might have ATUK in my tag, but i have OC in my DNA
Crellion	Posted - 2005.09.18 12:20:00 - [93] someone said: Raven with cruise and light tank > mega with 425 set up I fly both and think that thats only fair: a)5 Mega > 5 Ravens b)Mega hits hard HACs and Frigs in group fighting Raven doesnt ... all in all.. rather balanced. If there is a loss of balance is between Mega and Tempy same roles but Tempy better at Long and at close range. However I dont fly Tempy so this is just from what I hear and could be complete BS (One time I had long range snipe contest with Tempy I won comfortably -won means he warped out- but this obviously also proves nothing at all) + I lost a Domi to a fleet of 15. Nerf fleets
Mechanikis	Posted - 2005.09.18 14:32:00 - [94] I'm still kinda green to this game for the time being. (I admit, this is an alt, but I am doing this for... security reasons... mmyes...) However, time-based skill training has given me the opportunity to plot and strategize on what would be a good set-up with the Raven. I ask other players, I look into the various mods, and skills, and decide what the best possible set-up would be. I used to play World of Warcraft, which was a good game for some, crappy, and laughable for others. In that game, balance came up far too often, the devs actually tried to make all parties happy. But bless their hearts, there was always some little klwjt9w3 whining and complaining about their character, and the so-called "imbalance." MMO's are different from regular video games. In video games, you could be an invincible hero. But where's the fun in doing that? At least here, you can test your wits, and might against others. Also, people will keep complaining, regardless. Maybe it isnt obvious, but it is nigh IMPOSSIBLE to satisfy everyone. It's just a fact. A good way to test this out, is to figure which race/class is the most difficult to play well with. I mean, Caldari/Amarr, have the most obvious specialization choices. "Hmm... higher than average shields, and med-slots on my ship... Guess I should take advantage of shields." With Gallente, and Minmatar, it's a bit more of a mixed bag. That makes them a little more interesting to play with. Most Gallente ship bonuses involve drones, and hybrid guns. If I was playing Gallente, I'd take the Domi over the Mega any day. Better bonuses for that particular race. The advantage any race has against fighting a caldari, and amarr, is that you KNOW what they are going to do. So you know what to expect, if you've fought them before. Their tactics while various, are always going to come down to shield or armor tanking. With Gallente, or Minmatar, you never know what their defenses are. That can give you an edge, when fighting in one-on-one battles. Because me, the caldari, is going to say... "Okay... what are you gonna do," while let's say a Gallente Megathron is set for offense "Just break the shields..." Any pilot KNOWS which defense the Caldari, or Amarr is going to use. Minmatar, and Gallente are a little more well-rounded in defense, and outfitting your ship to properly sustain shield/hull damage can make you equal level with the more specialized defense type races. You MUST strategize. You MUST know what your favored ship is capable of. Otherwise, I dont care what racial type ships you fly, you're going to get wtfpwn'd to the point to where you wanna quit, or go mine forever. That being said, it is also to be taken into consideration what skills, and how many sp you have. The more specialized you are, the more you will get out of your chosen field. And remember: Good PVP pilots dont happen overnight. They happen through experience, and well-invested skills. Anyone is capable of being the threat of the battlefield. Just ask yourself what kind of threat you should be.
Stormfront	Posted - 2005.09.18 16:06:00 - [95] TBH, I don't mind losing to a Raven up close. IF the Raven pilot has invested time in training his skills on missiles and armor for the same amount time. But for a close range blasterthron to lose to a MUCH lower tanked Raven is wrong. Why lose to a ship thats not specced out while having all your skills maxed, all the right setup (save for ew)? If they don't wish to up the dmg on blasters. I recommend giving them lowered cpu. Make the Neutron IIs *****ble in any kind of REASONABLE setup without having to get faction mods or cpu enhancements
Safid Gorbet	Posted - 2005.09.18 17:03:00 - [96] I think one thing some of you are missing out on is that Ginger Magician is a Pirate that just can't handle the fact that he can't kill most Raven's at a stargate or station while the sentries are hitting him and the Raven pounding him with torps. Here are your options as a BS pilot. Uber tank, uber Dmg, or do both at optimal performance. As a Pirate you want to deal out uber amounts of DMG to kill your target and get out while at a stargate or station within sentry range. Or you stay out of sentry range(Sniper) sit back and pick someone apart with maximum firepower with very little if any defenses. The option Ginger has decided on is using is a Blasterthron to jump right at a gate/station attack a BS and stay under it's optimal range while taking minimal dmg hits from its turrets and tank against sentry fire. As for doing that to a Raven you can't attack it at a SG/station within sentry range like you would a turret based BS because you cant get under an optimal range that isnt there! Ravens IMO are designed to do ONE thing deal out maximum damage and obliterate it's opponent as fast as possible before it's cap runs out and it's opponents weapons wear down it's defenses. So if your a pirate such as Ginger and you have decided to go toe to toe with a Raven inside 10-15 km at a gate/station you have already lost against a Veteran Raven Pilot before you have fired the first shot. As for the Raven being unbeatable against a turret based BS thats just silly there have been a few Megas along with other BS that I have tangled with that havent allowed me to get off more than a few volley or have worn my defenses down in a long battle. Just becasue your ship cant beat another ship doesnt mean the other is overpowered.
Stormfront	Posted - 2005.09.18 17:12:00 - [97] Its not about Ginger and his ego, or your issues with what he does. I have tested Ravens, Megas and Armas. And the Mega with blasters is the least feasible ship of the 3 for 1v1s, or for general solo pvp.
HippoKing	Posted - 2005.09.18 17:47:00 - [98] i think you missed the point. ginger is the self=proclaimed best. he lost a fight. .: something needs nerfing still, i thought i was the best when i got my kestrel ganked by a sniper BS at a gate in my first week. does that mean the guy who killed me should be nerfed? i can't quite remember the guy's name; i think it was something like "Red-Head Wizzard" Originally by: TomB Originally by: Einheriar Ulrich Mining in a dreadnaught.....Should be banned /signed
duduk	Posted - 2005.09.18 18:51:00 - [99] Originally by: Stormfront Its not about Ginger and his ego, or your issues with what he does. I have tested Ravens, Megas and Armas. And the Mega with blasters is the least feasible ship of the 3 for 1v1s, or for general solo pvp. Could you please direct me to where it says the Mega is supposed to be the best at solo pvp ? -It doesn't say that anywhere Yes the Mega is supposed to be the top close range damage dealer in eve and honestly I believe it still is. CCP have said it many times that eve isn't a solo game. Get a corp member to fly a frigate / covert ops to give you a warp in point and the Raven is dead (ie. the Mega isn't gimping it's setup with a mwd) This unfortunately is the life of a close range pilot. These are the tactics that a Raven must employ if they decide to fight close range as fitting a mwd AND an injector AND a warp disruptor AND a tank isn't really an option -If you think that a Raven can tank a Megas damage at close range with 3 slots left over for a tank your off you're rocker. The Raven is a slow and clumbsy ship, it relies 100% on you approaching him. If you're stupid enough to approach and engage a torp raven solo then that's your fault, not the games. Change your tactics. Personally I think the game is getting pretty balanced. Just like there are tactics for taking out a gankageddon the same applies to a Raven.
Tovarishch	Posted - 2005.09.18 19:20:00 - [100] Originally by: Stormfront Its not about Ginger and his ego, or your issues with what he does. I have tested Ravens, Megas and Armas. And the Mega with blasters is the least feasible ship of the 3 for 1v1s, or for general solo pvp. One battleship (or any given ship of any type) has to fill the role you just stated. This thread is a complete joke... especially in light of the fact that the Dominix (the other Gallente battleship) is currently one of the most feared battleships in the game... thanks to drones. The game cannot be (and should not attempt to be) perfectly balanced. It's rock, paper, scissors.... with skill and experience making the difference. If the Megathron can't take some other ship one-on-one in some situations... then it can join the ranks of the multitude of other ships that are not quite as good at doing some things in some given situations. If a ship is at a complete disadvantage then, of course, it will need balancing. However, this thread... as was clearly stated a few times... is not that case. The Megathron is a fantastic ship... and still very popular due to it's effectiveness. This thread is the result of a damaged ego. After all... he is the undisputed best Megathron pilot in the game.
HippoKing	Posted - 2005.09.18 19:41:00 - [101] Originally by: Tovarishch After all... he is the undisputed best Megathron pilot in the game. and after all, i'm the king of bolivia (as well as hippos ) Originally by: TomB Originally by: Einheriar Ulrich Mining in a dreadnaught.....Should be banned /signed
siim	Posted - 2005.09.18 20:20:00 - [102] Originally by: Hephaesteus Originally by: Kalast Raven Originally by: Ginger Magician Edited by: Ginger Magician on 17/09/2005 16:12:26 With a 50% hardener i was being hit for 247 with bane torps - Get a 55% hardener Coz that extra 5% makes all the difference. 5% Can make a diff with ur living or getting killed
Hephaesteus	Posted - 2005.09.18 20:49:00 - [103] Originally by: siim Originally by: Hephaesteus Originally by: Kalast Raven Originally by: Ginger Magician Edited by: Ginger Magician on 17/09/2005 16:12:26 With a 50% hardener i was being hit for 247 with bane torps - Get a 55% hardener Coz that extra 5% makes all the difference. 5% Can make a diff with ur living or getting killed True 5% can make a difference but not in this case. Personally I dont think the Raven needs to be nerfed or the Meg buffed, but hybrids NEED to be looked at coz at the mo they suck.
LUKEC	Posted - 2005.09.18 20:58:00 - [104] rails are ok... but med. & large blasters sux
Stormfront	Posted - 2005.09.18 21:17:00 - [105] Quote: Could you please direct me to where it says the Mega is supposed to be the best at solo pvp ? -It doesn't say that anywhere Yes the Mega is supposed to be the top close range damage dealer in eve and honestly I believe it still is. CCP have said it many times that eve isn't a solo game. Get a corp member to fly a frigate / covert ops to give you a warp in point and the Raven is dead (ie. the Mega isn't gimping it's setup with a mwd) This unfortunately is the life of a close range pilot. These are the tactics that a Raven must employ if they decide to fight close range as fitting a mwd AND an injector AND a warp disruptor AND a tank isn't really an option -If you think that a Raven can tank a Megas damage at close range with 3 slots left over for a tank your off you're rocker. The Raven is a slow and clumbsy ship, it relies 100% on you approaching him. If you're stupid enough to approach and engage a torp raven solo then that's your fault, not the games. Change your tactics. Personally I think the game is getting pretty balanced. Just like there are tactics for taking out a gankageddon the same applies to a Raven. Could you plz direct me to where I said that the Mega was supposed to be the best solo pvp ship? Heres what I said Quote: I have tested Ravens, Megas and Armas. And the Mega with blasters is the least feasible ship of the 3 for 1v1s, or for general solo pvp.
duduk	Posted - 2005.09.18 23:00:00 - [106] Originally by: Stormfront Quote: Could you please direct me to where it says the Mega is supposed to be the best at solo pvp ? -It doesn't say that anywhere Yes the Mega is supposed to be the top close range damage dealer in eve and honestly I believe it still is. CCP have said it many times that eve isn't a solo game. Get a corp member to fly a frigate / covert ops to give you a warp in point and the Raven is dead (ie. the Mega isn't gimping it's setup with a mwd) This unfortunately is the life of a close range pilot. These are the tactics that a Raven must employ if they decide to fight close range as fitting a mwd AND an injector AND a warp disruptor AND a tank isn't really an option -If you think that a Raven can tank a Megas damage at close range with 3 slots left over for a tank your off you're rocker. The Raven is a slow and clumbsy ship, it relies 100% on you approaching him. If you're stupid enough to approach and engage a torp raven solo then that's your fault, not the games. Change your tactics. Personally I think the game is getting pretty balanced. Just like there are tactics for taking out a gankageddon the same applies to a Raven. Could you plz direct me to where I said that the Mega was supposed to be the best solo pvp ship? Heres what I said Quote: I have tested Ravens, Megas and Armas. And the Mega with blasters is the least feasible ship of the 3 for 1v1s, or for general solo pvp. Yes, a clever requote. You actually said; Quote: Its not about Ginger and his ego, or your issues with what he does. I have tested Ravens, Megas and Armas. And the Mega with blasters is the least feasible ship of the 3 for 1v1s , or for general solo pvp. The above statement implies that because it's at the bottom of your "solo" list everything else should be nerfed. How about the Domi or the Gallente HACS, or the Thorax...or the Gallente assault frigates. You guys have the some of the best solo ships in the game. ..but add a covert ops ship into the mix and the Mega comes out on top again. The only thing that causes a Mega to loose is the mwd. Remove that from the equation and the Mega is a monster. Should the Mega get a slight boost? maybe, but then again tech2 drones haven't been put into the mix and then Gallente will have an even stronger solo ships
Ginger Magician	Posted - 2005.09.18 23:22:00 - [107] Edited by: Ginger Magician on 18/09/2005 23:26:19 Just to clarify the fights where i lost to raven pilots did not involve sentry guns and only a fool would attack a raven under fire from guns solo nowadays.Most of my bs kills take place without sentry interference in low security space.As i orginaly stated the megathron cannot win regardless of the skills of the pilot involved - there was a poster who said she had completely maxed skills for gallente bs and megas and she could not beat ravens either. Maybe this is the way EVE wants to go - certain ships are invunerable to other ships and certainly i still have no problem killing minmatar and ammar ships in my mega but as far as the raven goes as things stand now its a hopeless case - even if u start off at 5km the mega will still not win.(noobs and poor pvpers excepted ofc) The pilots that i have lost to undoubtedly do have good skill for missiles but they r both mid 2004 starters and i am 2003 and have at least 10 million more skillpoints and i cant win.If thats fair then so be it but its leaves u the only option of flying a raven yourself and being unable to prevent targets warping or continuing with the dull but profitable sniper route. The mechanics of the game influence the behaviour of the players - if ccp want people to do stuff in a certain way they have to give all players and all races a level playing field and not have some ships of the same class vastly inferior or superior to each other
duduk	Posted - 2005.09.18 23:37:00 - [108] Edited by: duduk on 18/09/2005 23:39:19 Originally by: Ginger Magician The pilots that i have lost to undoubtedly do have good skill for missiles but they r both mid 2004 starters and i am 2003 and have at least 10 million more skillpoints and i cant win.If thats fair then so be it but its leaves u the only option of flying a raven yourself and being unable to prevent targets warping or continuing with the dull but profitable sniper route. did they tell you how many sp they had or are you basing that on their start day. because my main started 2004/05, so around 19 months ago. I have just under 26 million sp...I trained my learning skills up right away and as soon as advanced learning came out I had them up to lvl 4 right away. I have always had implants. I have spent all of my skill points focused to Caldari. Are you saying that I shouldn't beat you even though you have spread you skill points out over 3 different races? That just seems wrong to me.
Arbenowskee	Posted - 2005.09.19 01:18:00 - [109] Where do u people live? Raven does huge amount of DMG? LOL? Caldari are the only race without a 1000 DPS ship. Raven is kinda jack of all trades, but master of none. it can tank, but its tank is medicore, it can deal some dmg, but far from excelent dmg. IF u have 5 ballistics fitted DMG is nice, but u can't fit a good tank, because u lack CPU. U can fit nice tank, but no way u can fit 5 ballistics (or even 2 for that matter), because u ran out of cap in a blink of an aye, or u ran out of CPU. And BTW raven NEEDS 5 ballistics on low, to be even in par with dmg output of other BS (except typhoon :P), so i stopped tanking my raven along time ago. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Stormfront	Posted - 2005.09.19 03:56:00 - [110] Quote: The above statement implies that because it's at the bottom of your "solo" list everything else should be nerfed. How about the Domi or the Gallente HACS, or the Thorax...or the Gallente assault frigates. You guys have the some of the best solo ships in the game. The above statement from me doesn't imply anything of the sort. It simply points out that for solo pvp or 1v1, the Geddon and Raven are just better/easier to fit than a Megathron. My real concern was stated a few posts above that one Quote: TBH, I don't mind losing to a Raven up close. IF the Raven pilot has invested time in training his skills on missiles and armor for the same amount time. But for a close range blasterthron to lose to a MUCH lower tanked Raven is wrong. Why lose to a ship thats not specced out while having all your skills maxed, all the right setup (save for ew)?
Wrayeth	Posted - 2005.09.19 05:09:00 - [111] Edited by: Wrayeth on 19/09/2005 05:09:42 One thing a lot of anti-raven pilots seem to be forgetting about the raven being able to fit both a tank and damage mods is the simple fact that the raven's DPS with damage mods is only something on the order of HALF the mega's DPS with damage mods. The raven MUST tank to be on par, since its missiles' damage over time does not compare to the mega's. So please try to keep this in mind - the raven actually does significantly less DPS than the blasterthron. It does more per hit, but fires much more slowly and mounts one fewer launcher than the 'thron does blasters. In addition, the other balancing factors are: The raven sucks against anything that is not a battleship. The mega can successfully outfit for long range; the raven's missile flight time, even with cruise, makes it inherently less than effective at this (the target can choose to warp out before the first missile hits...OR it can choose to dish out damage to the raven during that time). A tech 2 railtrhon with 7 425 II's, tracking computers, sensor boosters, and damage mods will generally rip a raven apart at range thanks to the missile flight time. Hell, with four medslots, the advent of tech II shield boosters actually makes it feasable for a railthron to run a limited SHIELD TANK, 425's, and damage mods at once. Yes, that's right. Shield tank: 7 425's 1 rocket launcher with defenders 1 XL booster II 1 em hardener 1 kinetic hardener 1 thermal hardener Put as many magstab II's as you can fit in the lows after putting on any reactor controls/pdus and coprocessors needed. You should find you have at least four damage mods on there. Now that's done, try engaging that raven from 40km, and don't be surprised when you wtfpwn him. -Wrayeth
duduk	Posted - 2005.09.19 05:22:00 - [112] Originally by: Stormfront Quote: The above statement implies that because it's at the bottom of your "solo" list everything else should be nerfed. How about the Domi or the Gallente HACS, or the Thorax...or the Gallente assault frigates. You guys have the some of the best solo ships in the game. The above statement from me doesn't imply anything of the sort. It simply points out that for solo pvp or 1v1, the Geddon and Raven are just better/easier to fit than a Megathron. My real concern was stated a few posts above that one Quote: TBH, I don't mind losing to a Raven up close. IF the Raven pilot has invested time in training his skills on missiles and armor for the same amount time. But for a close range blasterthron to lose to a MUCH lower tanked Raven is wrong. Why lose to a ship thats not specced out while having all your skills maxed, all the right setup (save for ew)? A fair point Stormfront. The reason I get defensive is that fighting on the other side it seems to me to be balanced. I want balance in the game and if the Devs feel that another rebalance is needed then so be it, but for someone who has spent his entire eve career as a Caldari pilot ~26mil skillpoints it is very frustrating to see that all of our ships are complete cr@p.
Stormfront	Posted - 2005.09.19 05:41:00 - [113] Yeah, I do realise that quite a few Caldari ships are not what they used to be. Though for solo an ew Scorp does still sound uber :). BTW, a tanked Megathron with tech II electron blasters does about 380dps... hardly uber. And after getting hit by kin/thermal hardners that drops QUITE a bit. I can get that much from my omen :) This tanked Megathron requires a cap booster with full load of 800 cap boosters to be able to tank an averagely well skilled Raven pilot with torps. Since it is impossible to run 2 Large reps for ANY length of time on a decent setup.
DrunkenOne	Posted - 2005.09.19 06:05:00 - [114] Originally by: Arbenowskee Where do u people live? Raven does huge amount of DMG? LOL? Caldari are the only race without a 1000 DPS ship. Raven is kinda jack of all trades, but master of none. it can tank, but its tank is medicore, it can deal some dmg, but far from excelent dmg. IF u have 5 ballistics fitted DMG is nice, but u can't fit a good tank, because u lack CPU. U can fit nice tank, but no way u can fit 5 ballistics (or even 2 for that matter), because u ran out of cap in a blink of an aye, or u ran out of CPU. And BTW raven NEEDS 5 ballistics on low, to be even in par with dmg output of other BS (except typhoon :P), so i stopped tanking my raven along time ago. this post is a joke right? Raven outdamages tempest by a pretty big margin. And tbh i dont know if there are ANY 1000 dps ships, cept maybe a gankblasterthron or gankageddon.
Rexthor Hammerfists	Posted - 2005.09.19 06:11:00 - [115] drunken thats bull****, a autocannont emp with a shieldtank murers a torpraven. a 1400t2 temp murders a cruisemissile raven.
Stormfront	Posted - 2005.09.19 06:18:00 - [116] only if it has cap boosters Rex
Weirda	Posted - 2005.09.19 06:58:00 - [117] you don't talk about you drones. did you use drones? there is no way a raven could tank blasters + drones... weirda have broken raven tank with typhoon (and not nosphoon)... because it all adds up. at close range you can even throw the kitchen sink at them... raven are a one pump chump - and not hard to beat... you yourself said that they cannot tank if they scrambling you well (and hence you weren't killed)... that not very great... -- Thread Killer (attempting to train verbosity from 4 back down to 1) <END TRANSMISSION>
Xardrix	Posted - 2005.09.19 07:14:00 - [118] Personally, I believe most people have the wrong idea of PVP combat. The idea is not to Tank anyone's damage. The idea is simply to survive incoming damage long enough to neutralize it. But that's neither here, nor there. I have seen but one real 1v1 Megathron on Raven fight. If the Megathron were equipped for blasters, the raven may have won. If it had 425s Equipped, who knows? As it stands, it was a Torp versus NOS battle. Quote: The Raven's damage was offset by random Smartbombs, while the NOSs worked their magic, feuling a double large rep tank. (and 3 Hardeners vs. Multispectral Torps) Quickly, the Raven new it wasn't putting out enough damage, and deployed its drones, which died quickly to 2 large smartbombs. Then, the raven was slowly dispatched by 10 Heavy Drones, until pod and drones were once again destroyed by smartbombs. -------------------------------------------------------- On a seperate note, the cruise raven is the only ship that can fit a full tank and good/great damage at any range from 0-120km+. Do I ask for a nerf? No, just that everyone understands that Its the pilot that makes the ship great, not the other way around. http://www.huzzah-federation.com/
HippoKing	Posted - 2005.09.19 07:33:00 - [119] Originally by: Xardrix On a seperate note, the cruise raven is the only ship that can fit a full tank and good/great damage at any range from 0-120km+. against a rats or a POS maybe, anything else will warp or explode before torps get there Originally by: TomB Originally by: Einheriar Ulrich Mining in a dreadnaught.....Should be banned /signed
Jim Raynor	Posted - 2005.09.19 07:39:00 - [120] cruise launcher raven with t2 bcu (still waiting...) can prob put up a nice shield tank and get their ROF down to about 6 seconds flat. bcu sure use up a LOT of cpu though so CPU issues might stop you from running 5.. :( anyone know the DPS of a cruise launcher raven? o_O ------
Randay	Posted - 2005.09.19 08:16:00 - [121] A raven beat a megathron, this is a serious threat to game balance. please give the megathron an additional 5000 powergrid and 10% damage increase to large hybrid. thank you. ------------------------------------------- "Det hõr kan betyda krig!"
HippoKing	Posted - 2005.09.19 08:41:00 - [122] Originally by: Randay A raven beat a megathron, this is a serious threat to game balance. please give the megathron an additional 5000 powergrid and 10% damage increase to large hybrid. thank you. i think you forgot nerfing the raven Originally by: TomB Originally by: Einheriar Ulrich Mining in a dreadnaught.....Should be banned /signed
Rod Blaine	Posted - 2005.09.19 08:46:00 - [123] Edited by: Rod Blaine on 19/09/2005 08:46:44 Let's throw in something wild here. CCP should remove the cap penalty from the MWD and change bonuses accordingly. . _______________________________________________ Yes yes, blogging is passÚ I know. Rod's Ramblingz on Eve-Online Solutions to your issues.
Rage Hander	Posted - 2005.09.19 10:42:00 - [124] imho... the real advantage of raven (and caldari ships) is that they can choose the DAMAGE TYPE hybrid turrets can do only kin/therm so the mega need a full damage fit, while raven can fit a decent tank and deal good damage too
Caztra Tor	Posted - 2005.09.19 11:14:00 - [125] Sounds like a pirate got what he deserved. Leave those Ravens alone Ginger. Ha Ha
Fred0	Posted - 2005.09.19 11:34:00 - [126] Originally by: Rexthor Hammerfists drunken thats bull****, a autocannont emp with a shieldtank murers a torpraven. a 1400t2 temp murders a cruisemissile raven. Well a 800mm ac pest will not get 1000dps, it will come very close with two siegelaunchers in the last two slots but it won't break 1000dps. Secondly, I am yet to do the math on a maxed out raven with the new missile skills. How much dps can you get on a siege raven nowaday?
Deja Thoris	Posted - 2005.09.19 11:56:00 - [127] Originally by: Ginger Magician The pilots that i have lost to undoubtedly do have good skill for missiles but they r both mid 2004 starters and i am 2003 and have at least 10 million more skillpoints and i cant win. Mid 2004 starter can have maxed cap, tanking, battleship and missile skills. (well maybe not all the new missile skills) The difference is starting dates is irrelevant.
Loka	Posted - 2005.09.19 12:06:00 - [128] let me throw here some numbers, for the ones thinking that a Blasterthron is cool how it is now. Gankathron: Usual equipment: 7x 425mm II, 5x mag II My theoretical dmgoutput (without resistances!!!): 37380 dmg/min or 623dps 1.st Blasterthron: Usual equipment: 7x electronblaster II, 2x mag II My theoretical dmgoutput (without resistances!!!): 35868 dmg/min or 597,8dps 2.nd Blasterthron: Usual equipment: 7x Ion Blaster Cannon II, 2x mag II My theoretical dmgoutput (without resistances!!!): 38430 dmg/min or 640,5dps You cant fit Neutron II on Blasterthron, due to CPU&PG problems. So i havent shown the stats here. What we can obvious see from my statement? 1. The Gankathron will need 2 sec to start a lock and open fire, while the Blasterthron will need ~8 sec. 2. The Blastertron need an optimal start to even had a chance 3. Due to tracking enhancers of the Gankathron, it will hit the Blasterthron until 5km easily, which will probably kill the thron until the neede range is reached 4. Gankathron can hit from 100km-5km, with very good dmg. The Thron will have a combatrange of 2km-10km, until its dmg will drop drastic. 5. The more Gankathrons will fight Blasterthrons, the more ground the Blasterthron will loose. 6. The Gankathron has 4 Medslots to play with, the Blasterthron has none. 7. The Gankathron is doing the same dmg like the Blasterthron up to ~50km distance. My point? Not other BS or weapons are here the problem, but the fact that there are better options than using Blasters atm. Dont tell me now something wrong with Ganksetups, because i know there is. But also something wrong with the dmg/tracking problems of Blasters. If you would kill Ganksetups, the Raven will be the uber ship again, because its dmg+survibility still can be compared with Gankships. Remove gankships and the Rave will almost be uncontested. _________________________ Dead or Alive
Farjung	Posted - 2005.09.19 14:26:00 - [129] Edited by: Farjung on 19/09/2005 14:29:50 As you asked: 6 siege II + 5 t1 ballistics, maxed relevant skills: 6 * 450 * 1.25 (torpedo) * 1.1 (warhead upgrades * ((1.07^5)^(5^-0.25)) = 4,654.97 hp/volley 19.2 * 0.9 (missile launcher op) * 0.85 (rapid launch) * 0.75 (Caldari bs) * 0.9 (torp spec) * ((0.925^5)^(5^-0.25)) = 7.639 second RoF DoT = 609.4 dps - very similar to the theoretical damage from a dual large rep dual damage mod electronthron's guns, although you can choose the damage types to match weakest resist of course, and don't need to be within 3.5km to actually achieve that damage. Add on another couple of hundred for 6 tech II heavies. Not that 6 siege II and 5 ballistic I is particularly useful as a general fitting if you want a tank. Siege II are pretty hard to fit CPU wise (Using 37.5% more CPU than Malkuth). 6 siege II + 5 ballistic I w/ wu/awu 5 take 9930.2 MW and 571 tf, leaving 1,944.8 MW and 304 tf free to fit 2 highs and 5 mids. XLarge C5-L (think we can safely forget about t2 on this setup) + named em/therm/kin shield hardeners + faint warp disruptor takes 504 MW and 308 tf. Out of CPU, and still a mid and two highs to fill. Looks like t2 siege are similar to t2 blasters in that it's nigh on impossible to fit a full tank + t2 siege, you'll probably get a superior overall fitting using arbalest instead. You could go for a half-arsed tank of large shield booster II, shield boost amplifier, 3 hards and disruptor, which will soak up a bit of damage, but meh. In fact, if you're going for tanking as defence, 4 ballistics, rcu II, named t1 siege, heavy cap injector, xlarge c5-l + 3 hards, disruptor, one large weapon and one medium weapon should fit, and will probably give you the best offence vs defence, although of course you'll only ever win one fight before having to refill your hold. Of course you could use that CPU on EW instead, and if you knew you were facing a blasterthron, an afterburner, tracking disruptor, couple of webs and a scram will make the fight pretty one-sided. On paper, EW aside, if a fight starts within 5-10km the blasterthron ought to win. I think the main obstacle is that of tracking. Given the (lack of) agility of battleships, it's extremely hard to control the approach to another battleship in such a way that you stop 3.5km away (optimal of electron II with antimatter) and don't nudge in closer or slip past, causing your theoretical DoT to go out of the window because large blasters have such woeful tracking compared to their optimal. Of course the raven can be way into the falloff of the blasters, or sitting right on top of the mega where blasters won't track at all, and either way, its DoT is unaffected. It's up to the mega pilot to minimise transversal, but really, because battleships are such lumbering beasts, it's not the easiest of tasks, especially as the raven will be doing its utmost to either get too close to you or too far away. Someone really needs to keep me away from the Taranis
DrunkenOne	Posted - 2005.09.19 14:42:00 - [130] Edited by: DrunkenOne on 19/09/2005 14:45:28 Edited by: DrunkenOne on 19/09/2005 14:44:38 Originally by: Rexthor Hammerfists drunken thats bull****, a autocannont emp with a shieldtank murers a torpraven. a 1400t2 temp murders a cruisemissile raven. A torp raven outdamages a autotempest, sorry you are wrong. ^^^ above numbers. Maybe if you fit 2 cruise or siege on the tempest, but you wont be able to fit either if in full gank w/ shield tank cause you run out of cpu. And I'm pretty sure cruise outdamage 1400s, as besides their big volley damage they do less dps than tachs megabeams or 425s.
Nafri	Posted - 2005.09.19 14:47:00 - [131] Originally by: DrunkenOne Edited by: DrunkenOne on 19/09/2005 14:45:28 Edited by: DrunkenOne on 19/09/2005 14:44:38 Originally by: Rexthor Hammerfists drunken thats bull****, a autocannont emp with a shieldtank murers a torpraven. a 1400t2 temp murders a cruisemissile raven. A torp raven outdamages a autotempest, sorry you are wrong. ^^^ above numbers. Maybe if you fit 2 cruise or siege on the tempest, but you wont be able to fit either if in full gank w/ shield tank cause you run out of cpu. And I'm pretty sure cruise outdamage 1400s, as besides their big volley damage they do less dps than tachs megabeams or 425s. The only way to kill those ravens is smartbombs, which gimps your abilities versus other ships -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Put your panties on your head!
j0sephine	Posted - 2005.09.19 14:50:00 - [132] "anyone know the DPS of a cruise launcher raven? o_O" ~420 dps with 6x tech.2 launcher, max skills and 5x tech.1 bcu ~510 dps with 5x tech.2 bcu instead, presuming they'll fit... didn't bother to check ..;
Jim Raynor	Posted - 2005.09.19 14:53:00 - [133] Originally by: j0sephine "anyone know the DPS of a cruise launcher raven? o_O" ~420 dps with 6x tech.2 launcher, max skills and 5x tech.1 bcu ~510 dps with 5x tech.2 bcu instead, presuming they'll fit... didn't bother to check ..; w3rd, that blows. ------
j0sephine	Posted - 2005.09.19 15:03:00 - [134] "w3rd, that blows." Well, with tech.2 it's kinda close to artillery Tempest, which does ~555 ^^ but then Tempest gets advantage of dealing that instantly, and something like over 1.5k of more damage per salvo, without wrecking hits and stuff like that :/
Jim Raynor	Posted - 2005.09.19 15:10:00 - [135] Originally by: j0sephine "w3rd, that blows." Well, with tech.2 it's kinda close to artillery Tempest, which does ~555 ^^ but then Tempest gets advantage of dealing that instantly, and something like over 1.5k of more damage per salvo, without wrecking hits and stuff like that :/ missiles tend to do better in practice than they do on paper tbh ------
Farjung	Posted - 2005.09.19 15:29:00 - [136] Originally by: DrunkenOne Edited by: DrunkenOne on 19/09/2005 14:45:28 Edited by: DrunkenOne on 19/09/2005 14:44:38 Originally by: Rexthor Hammerfists drunken thats bull***, a autocannont emp with a shieldtank murers a torpraven. a 1400t2 temp murders a cruisemissile raven. A torp raven outdamages a autotempest, sorry you are wrong. ^^^ above numbers. Maybe if you fit 2 cruise or siege on the tempest, but you wont be able to fit either if in full gank w/ shield tank cause you run out of cpu. And I'm pretty sure cruise outdamage 1400s, as besides their big volley damage they do less dps than tachs megabeams or 425s. Hmm... I find it hard to believe a full-gank autopest is outdamaged by a raven. Maybe if you want to use a setup with an actual omgwtftank on, but pure gank? Or maybe there's a flaw in my math somewhere... 6 800mm II + 6 t2 gyros, maxed relevant skills: 6 44 * 2.31 * 1.25 (large projectile) * 1.1 (spec) * 1.25 (Minmatar bs) * 1.15 (surg) * ((1.1^6)^(6^-0.25)) = 1,737.05 hp/volley 5.625 * 0.9 (gunnery) * 0.8 (rapid firing) * 0.75 (Minmatar bs) * ((0.895^6)^(6^-0.25)) = 1.9853 second RoF DoT = 875.0 dps. Of course with a dps of ~2 seconds and 40 rounds of EMP per reload, for long fights that will affect your DoT, but in the scenario of a gankraven vs gankpest one of you will be dead before that becomes an issue. 6 800 II + 6 gyrostab II w/ wu/awu 5 take 11,886 MW and 364.5 tf, leaving 7,489 MW and 323 tf to fill 5 mids and 2 highs. For a solo setup you'd presumably need a speed mod and a scrambler, with a webber being debatable. So that leaves 2/3 slots for a shield tank, which is never going to be amazing. You could fit a 100mn AB, disruptor, large booster II, em hard, thermal hard, heavy nos or something, but really I don't see the point. A full gank AC-pest just doesn't seem to make much sense as a solo setup, a low damage armor-tanked version seems more sensible. And yeah, that'll be outdamage by the torp raven I did the numbers for up there ^. Someone really needs to keep me away from the Taranis
Huskar	Posted - 2005.09.19 16:15:00 - [137] Am I the only one here who has noticed the launcher slots on a mega? Surely you can give the Raven a taste of his own can you not? Use the guns for kin/therm damage and plug a few torps/cruise missiles in for good measure. Or is that to easy to be possible?
DrunkenOne	Posted - 2005.09.19 16:16:00 - [138] Edited by: DrunkenOne on 19/09/2005 16:19:17 Edited by: DrunkenOne on 19/09/2005 16:18:42 Originally by: Farjung Originally by: DrunkenOne Edited by: DrunkenOne on 19/09/2005 14:45:28 Edited by: DrunkenOne on 19/09/2005 14:44:38 Originally by: Rexthor Hammerfists drunken thats bull***, a autocannont emp with a shieldtank murers a torpraven. a 1400t2 temp murders a cruisemissile raven. A torp raven outdamages a autotempest, sorry you are wrong. ^^^ above numbers. Maybe if you fit 2 cruise or siege on the tempest, but you wont be able to fit either if in full gank w/ shield tank cause you run out of cpu. And I'm pretty sure cruise outdamage 1400s, as besides their big volley damage they do less dps than tachs megabeams or 425s. Hmm... I find it hard to believe a full-gank autopest is outdamaged by a raven. Maybe if you want to use a setup with an actual omgwtftank on, but pure gank? Or maybe there's a flaw in my math somewhere... 6 800mm II + 6 t2 gyros, maxed relevant skills: 6 44 * 2.31 * 1.25 (large projectile) * 1.1 (spec) * 1.25 (Minmatar bs) * 1.15 (surg) * ((1.1^6)^(6^-0.25)) = 1,737.05 hp/volley 5.625 * 0.9 (gunnery) * 0.8 (rapid firing) * 0.75 (Minmatar bs) * ((0.895^6)^(6^-0.25)) = 1.9853 second RoF DoT = 875.0 dps. Of course with a dps of ~2 seconds and 40 rounds of EMP per reload, for long fights that will affect your DoT, but in the scenario of a gankraven vs gankpest one of you will be dead before that becomes an issue. 6 800 II + 6 gyrostab II w/ wu/awu 5 take 11,886 MW and 364.5 tf, leaving 7,489 MW and 323 tf to fill 5 mids and 2 highs. For a solo setup you'd presumably need a speed mod and a scrambler, with a webber being debatable. So that leaves 2/3 slots for a shield tank, which is never going to be amazing. You could fit a 100mn AB, disruptor, large booster II, em hard, thermal hard, heavy nos or something, but really I don't see the point. A full gank AC-pest just doesn't seem to make much sense as a solo setup, a low damage armor-tanked version seems more sensible. And yeah, that'll be outdamage by the torp raven I did the numbers for up there ^. Which is basically what I said, you cant do a 6 800 II 6 gyro II fitting and have anything left for your highs or your tank really, while a raven can fit for max damage and have a much better tank. And of course theres the fantastic ability of only being able to hold 40 ammo in the 800 IIs, meaning you reload about after 60 seconds (which you did mention, but needs to be reiterated . And of course the fact that for the tempest that is theoretically the dps, but misses/scratches/lightly hits might make it lower, while a raven will do that dps always. A more sensible autogank setup would be with dual 650 IIs, as you only lose like 5% damage and free up a lot of fitting. But I like armor tanked over gank because my shield tanking skills suck and theres much better things to fit in mids. But of course vs a raven, a armor tanked tempest can't use its uberadvantage that it has vs blasterthrons, gankpests, and gankageddons: The extra mid for(assuming mwd/ab, web, scrambler, heavycapbooster) a tracking disruptor II. . Anyways raven 4tw, I wish i had max skills for one cause I'd fly it like a blasterthron.
DrunkenOne	Posted - 2005.09.19 16:22:00 - [139] Btw could you theoretically fit on a raven 6 siege II, 2 heavy nos (maybe 2 medium neuts) mwd, web, scrambler, heavy cap booster, 2x tracking disruptor IIs Large rep II, med rep II, 2 hardners/energized adaptive, RCU II Or do you run out of cpu? Cause if you can run that, it would kill any turret BS with ease.
HippoKing	Posted - 2005.09.19 16:37:00 - [140] Originally by: DrunkenOne Btw could you theoretically fit on a raven 6 siege II, 2 heavy nos (maybe 2 medium neuts) mwd, web, scrambler, heavy cap booster, 2x tracking disruptor IIs Large rep II, med rep II, 2 hardners/energized adaptive, RCU II Or do you run out of cpu? Cause if you can run that, it would kill any turret BS with ease. not sure - but it is possible. i think you are more likely to run out of grid Originally by: TomB Originally by: Einheriar Ulrich Mining in a dreadnaught.....Should be banned /signed
Farjung	Posted - 2005.09.19 16:40:00 - [141] That's evil. Yeah, it fits cpu wise if you go with medium energy neuts (and best named td rather than t2 as well I think). Someone really needs to keep me away from the Taranis
DrunkenOne	Posted - 2005.09.19 16:47:00 - [142] Originally by: Farjung Edited by: Farjung on 19/09/2005 16:43:00 That's evil. Yeah, it fits cpu wise if you go with medium energy neuts (and best named td rather than t2 as well I think). Edit: thought you'd checked grid, but from my calcs you're short with just the one rcu II. Drop the med rep II for another rcu II and it'll go. What if you dropped the large rep II for a large accom, similar repair for a lot less grid, then might be able to fit?
Farjung	Posted - 2005.09.19 16:54:00 - [143] Originally by: Huskar Am I the only one here who has noticed the launcher slots on a mega? Surely you can give the Raven a taste of his own can you not? Use the guns for kin/therm damage and plug a few torps/cruise missiles in for good measure. Or is that to easy to be possible? One siege launcher on a ship with no bonus and with no ballistics boosting it will only add 47 damage per second (and that's with maxed missile skills, that not that many dedicated Gallente pilots will have), if you can even fit it. Blasterthrons are extremely tight on the CPU, and it requires pretty hefty sacrifices to get the heavy nos on which I always fit when solo, and that only takes 40 tf. If you're running a tank, the nos will generally be more useful than the marginal extra damage. Someone really needs to keep me away from the Taranis
Farjung	Posted - 2005.09.19 17:00:00 - [144] Originally by: DrunkenOne Edited by: DrunkenOne on 19/09/2005 16:54:53 Originally by: Farjung Edited by: Farjung on 19/09/2005 16:43:00 That's evil. Yeah, it fits cpu wise if you go with medium energy neuts (and best named td rather than t2 as well I think). Edit: thought you'd checked grid, but from my calcs you're short with just the one rcu II. Drop the med rep II for another rcu II and it'll go. What if you dropped the large rep II for a large accom, similar repair for a lot less grid, then might be able to fit? Edit: And since you dont REALLY need the mwd, drop it for a 100mn AB II, maybe even a faction AB. That should free up enough grid. Still not going to happen :( 6 siege II + 2 med energy neuts: 10,325.2 MW 100MN AB II + heavy cap injector: 2,438 MW Large accomo + medium rep II: 2,173 MW Total: 14,936.2 MW Raven w/ eng 5 + rcu II: 13,656.25 MW Someone really needs to keep me away from the Taranis
DrunkenOne	Posted - 2005.09.19 17:10:00 - [145] Edited by: DrunkenOne on 19/09/2005 17:10:07 Originally by: Farjung Originally by: DrunkenOne Edited by: DrunkenOne on 19/09/2005 16:54:53 Originally by: Farjung Edited by: Farjung on 19/09/2005 16:43:00 That's evil. Yeah, it fits cpu wise if you go with medium energy neuts (and best named td rather than t2 as well I think). Edit: thought you'd checked grid, but from my calcs you're short with just the one rcu II. Drop the med rep II for another rcu II and it'll go. What if you dropped the large rep II for a large accom, similar repair for a lot less grid, then might be able to fit? Edit: And since you dont REALLY need the mwd, drop it for a 100mn AB II, maybe even a faction AB. That should free up enough grid. Still not going to happen :( 6 siege II + 2 med energy neuts: 10,325.2 MW 100MN AB II + heavy cap injector: 2,438 MW Large accomo + medium rep II: 2,173 MW Total: 14,936.2 MW Raven w/ eng 5 + rcu II: 13,656.25 MW Yarr I blame siim tbh.
B0rn2KiLL	Posted - 2005.09.19 17:14:00 - [146] people forget the little details, torps are 0.6 m3 .. large projectile is 0.085? plus the lack of BCU II's, im sure i could think of many more issues if ihad the time, a raven might be very tankable, but its not that versatile when it comes to ammo and long trips like most ships are, it has half the grid of most battleships too. im a fresh caldari noob, 1.5mil sp, im pretty sure im get flamed for this but hey :p people been going on and on for ages it seems about the raven, and so it was "nerfed" before, making most caldari ships underpowered, like the cerberus, most caldari frigates\cruisers\HACs, except maybe the eagle and the crow, arnt as good as most races. each race is unique, people should focus on being good in what they fly. i bet most of the pilots here havnt played for a year, and as i would presume, learning enough skill till u get really good in this game takes more than a year, depends on what you want todo i guess. i have a friend flying a tempest, with t2 1400s (?) he hits 2000 damage with 1 volly, not even a wrecking? wtf is that. he told me he has BS skill to 3 too, that is scary, i tell ya. activates his flame shield Avast yee Skully Rags!!!111! Yarr!!#
Wrayeth	Posted - 2005.09.19 17:19:00 - [147] Edited by: Wrayeth on 19/09/2005 17:21:54 Best I've managed to fit on a raven is: 6 siege II 2 unstable medium energy neutralizers 1 XL booster II 1 "anointed" EM hardener 1 "ditrigonal" thermal hardener 1 "non-inertial" kinetic hardener 1 eutectic cap recharger 1 shield boost amp I 4 ballistic control I's 1 coproccessor II At the end of fitting this, I have roughly 2.5 CPU free. Note that I had to use lots of named items to manage it. -Wrayeth
Turris	Posted - 2005.09.19 17:31:00 - [148] NO FAIR! Ravnes are slower than Megas! NERF THE MEGA'S SPEED! NO FAIR! Megas have 7 Primary Weapons slots and Ravens only have 6! NERF A TURRET SLOT! NO Fair! No Fair! No Fair! Give me a break if all ships were 100% equal this would be a boring game. Suck it up, move a long and do some more skill training! BTW I hear The Prophecy is an overpowered ship it once even killed a gankageddon and then the pod!
Dimitri Forgroth	Posted - 2005.09.19 17:52:00 - [149] Edited by: Dimitri Forgroth on 19/09/2005 17:52:07 Originally by: HippoKing YES! i am in antoher person;s sig /marks it off taking over the world one sig at a time \o/ DPS Sheet
Fred0	Posted - 2005.09.19 19:54:00 - [150] Well, I used to run a Tempest with 800's. 2 Siege Launchers and one cpu. XL booster and a couple of hardeners in med slot, and it owned everything at station camping including ravens. Only thing able to tank it was a raven with 3bill worth of kit. Then again, I only used it for about 10 1vs1's so it might not be representative.
LUKEC	Posted - 2005.09.19 20:42:00 - [151] Mega blows... Everything written here can be done perfectly ok with fcking domi. At least in theory. In practice we know how it goes :) Usually b4 the person attacked starts firing he is in 1/2 armor :)
duduk	Posted - 2005.09.19 23:12:00 - [152] Originally by: LUKEC Mega blows... Everything written here can be done perfectly ok with fcking domi. At least in theory. In practice we know how it goes :) Usually b4 the person attacked starts firing he is in 1/2 armor :) The Mega doesn't blow ..actually come to think of it Gallente have a top ship in every ship category/class.
Paradox Eve	Posted - 2005.09.19 23:41:00 - [153] I setup a megathron a few days ago and asked people in my alliance to have battles with me (ending the fight once we hit structure. I have fought 3 ravens, each setup in slightly different ways with different skills of the pilots, and I have yet to loose. If you can't beat a raven with a mega, you either dont know what you're doing or your not very creative in your setup. [I would give you the setup- it is a great all-round setup for 1v1 pvp in general, not just against ravens- but I dont want my enemies whating what I have. Maybe in a couple of weeks or when I get bored with it Ill say it...]
Lord Timelord	Posted - 2005.09.20 04:05:00 - [154] Decent Long Range Mega Setup: 7x 425mm Prototype Gauss Railguns 1x Cloak II (or) NOS 1x AB II 1x Sensor Booster II 1x Tracking Computer II 1x Sensor Dampener II (or) Target Painter 1x Large Armor Repairer II 4x Active Hardners 1x RCU II 1x Cap Relay Decent Close Range Mega Setup: 7x Modal Mega Neutrons 1x Named NOS 1x MWD II 1x Tracking Computer II 1x Cap Injector 1x Cap Recharger II 1x LAR II 1x MAR II 3x Hardners 1x Reactor Control Unit II 1x Magnetic Field Stabilizer II You may have to meddle with an slot or two to fit your current powergrid/cpu because of your skills... but these are somewhat proper mega setups. And yes, a Raven can get my armor either all the way down, and sometimes even into structure. But then they run out of cap, and they are dead. It's cheaper to repair a battleship vs. buying/fitting a new one. __________ Visit GETCo's website at http://www.megathron.com
DrunkenOne	Posted - 2005.09.20 04:09:00 - [155] Originally by: Lord Timelord Decent Long Range Mega Setup: 7x 425mm Prototype Gauss Railguns 1x Cloak II (or) NOS 1x AB II 1x Sensor Booster II 1x Tracking Computer II 1x Sensor Dampener II (or) Target Painter 1x Large Armor Repairer II 4x Active Hardners 1x RCU II 1x Cap Relay Decent Close Range Mega Setup: 7x Modal Mega Neutrons 1x Named NOS 1x MWD II 1x Tracking Computer II 1x Cap Injector 1x Cap Recharger II 1x LAR II 1x MAR II 3x Hardners 1x Reactor Control Unit II 1x Magnetic Field Stabilizer II You may have to meddle with an slot or two to fit your current powergrid/cpu because of your skills... but these are somewhat proper mega setups. And yes, a Raven can get my armor either all the way down, and sometimes even into structure. But then they run out of cap, and they are dead. It's cheaper to repair a battleship vs. buying/fitting a new one. That long range setup is crap and there is no way you can fit that close range setup.
Lord Timelord	Posted - 2005.09.20 05:00:00 - [156] That long range setup is crap and there is no way you can fit that close range setup. Well like I said, it was "Decent". Not above average or uber. On the second point you are correct. I should have proof read it b4 posting. Swap the MWD for a AB , and the Cap Injector for a Cap Recharger II, and it'll all fit. Again, not a uber setup, but will be a good baseline to start from to try different modules out on. It's mostly a either/or setup for those mid/low slots. As has been said on other threads, your best bet is to properly fit what you want in the low and mid slots, then fit the best weapons you can with your remaining powergrid/cpu in your hi slots. __________ Visit GETCo's website at http://www.megathron.com
Sadist	Posted - 2005.09.20 05:15:00 - [157] Edited by: Sadist on 20/09/2005 05:17:08 Originally by: duduk The Mega doesn't blow ..actually come to think of it Gallente have a top ship in every ship category/class. Retarded comments by alts ftw? How about having a ****ty bonus, having only 4 mids, being able to do only kin/thermal sound to you? Not so appealing, huh? Mega IS the worst tier 2 BS out there, period. Currently there's no way to defend against missiles at _close_ range. In fact the only thing a mega can do to _defend_ against them is tank, which it doesn't do that great either. Please, also name a top gallente ship in tech 1 frig category... --------------- VIP member of the [23]
DrunkenOne	Posted - 2005.09.20 05:20:00 - [158] Originally by: Sadist Originally by: duduk The Mega doesn't blow ..actually come to think of it Gallente have a top ship in every ship category/class. Retarded comments by alts ftw? How about having a **ty bonus, having only 4 mids, being able to do only kin/thermal sound to you? Not so appealing, huh? Mega IS the worst tier 2 BS out there, period. Um I guess its just an opinion but I'd say the mega is the BEST tier 2 BS out there. And what **ty bonus? Damage and tracking are both good... Obviously tracking isnt as good as another damage bonus, but that would make the mega incredibly overpowered, as its already the highest damaging BS. So what bonus would you suggest replaces it?
FalloutBoy	Posted - 2005.09.20 05:28:00 - [159] Originally by: Sadist Edited by: Sadist on 20/09/2005 05:17:08 Originally by: duduk The Mega doesn't blow ..actually come to think of it Gallente have a top ship in every ship category/class. Retarded comments by alts ftw? How about having a ****ty bonus, having only 4 mids, being able to do only kin/thermal sound to you? Not so appealing, huh? Mega IS the worst tier 2 BS out there, period. Currently there's no way to defend against missiles at _close_ range. In fact the only thing a mega can do to _defend_ against them is tank, which it doesn't do that great either. Please, also name a top gallente ship in tech 1 frig category... i'm going to try to stop from laughing here. the mega is the most versatile BS in the game. its one of the best snipers. can be setup as a great midrange ganker, as well as the best upclose ganker. and on your question of the great gal tech 1 frig. look no further than the incursus, while the rifter may be a bit better in some areas the cursus is just a fun ship to fly and in my opinion is tied with the rifter for the best tech 1 frig. need a sig? Gallery Contact me for more informat
duduk	Posted - 2005.09.20 06:15:00 - [160] Originally by: Sadist Edited by: Sadist on 20/09/2005 05:17:08 Originally by: duduk The Mega doesn't blow ..actually come to think of it Gallente have a top ship in every ship category/class. Retarded comments by alts ftw? How about having a ****ty bonus, having only 4 mids, being able to do only kin/thermal sound to you? Not so appealing, huh? Mega IS the worst tier 2 BS out there, period. Currently there's no way to defend against missiles at _close_ range. In fact the only thing a mega can do to _defend_ against them is tank, which it doesn't do that great either. Please, also name a top gallente ship in tech 1 frig category... Retarded comments by players too retarded to not use an alt to post retarded comments ftw! I certainly have my reasons for using an alt to post with. They certainly aren't because I don't understand the game or have the brain the size of a peanut. Thank you Drunken and Fallout for the backup. I agree with Drunken that the Mega is at the top for tier2 battleships. Gallente have the: Mega - great sniper/top damage dealer/nice tank Domi - top solo battleship Thorax - top cruiser ingame since I can remember. Ishkur/Enyo - both top assualt frigates Moros - damn how many have we seen ingame already. probably the most versitile dread ingame. Obelisk - 2nd largest capacity Deimos - top damage dealer Ishtar - top solo HAC Iteron Mark V - best industrial. of course some would disagree with the above list, but if I am off it isn't by far. now please take the time and create a list for the Caldari and I'm not talking about the past. I want to see the facts as you see them today.
Lord Timelord	Posted - 2005.09.20 07:17:00 - [161] /me agress with duduk. __________ Visit GETCo's website at http://www.megathron.com
Stormfront	Posted - 2005.09.20 07:27:00 - [162] Quote: Mega - great sniper/top damage dealer/nice tank Domi - top solo battleship Raven = Great Tank, great volley dmg, great slot layout Scorp = Top solo BS, Awesome shield tank capability. :)
Loka	Posted - 2005.09.20 07:39:00 - [163] Originally by: Stormfront Raven = Great Tank, great volley dmg, great slot layout Scorp = Top solo BS, Awesome shield tank capability. :) The Scorp is awsome tbh. 1 Scorp + any other BS, can kill any 3 BS group, without EW. Scorpion is the perfect ship to complete a mixed fleet. Thats why Scorpions are primary each fight and not because of their ueber DMG nor their ueber shieldtank ;). _________________________ Dead or Alive
FlameHell	Posted - 2005.09.20 11:13:00 - [164] Originally by: duduk the Mega is at the top for tier2 battleships. [...] Domi - top solo battleship LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL HAhauahuAHauhaAhAHUAhaAHuahAhauAHAHAhaAhua asdasdafsdahuadsfhushfsalfjksalajfkssaas where you seriuos?? ...rotfl
LUKEC	Posted - 2005.09.20 11:16:00 - [165] Originally by: Lord Timelord Decent Long Range Mega Setup: 7x 425mm Prototype Gauss Railguns 1x Cloak II (or) NOS 1x AB II 1x Sensor Booster II 1x Tracking Computer II 1x Sensor Dampener II (or) Target Painter 1x Large Armor Repairer II 4x Active Hardners 1x RCU II 1x Cap Relay Decent Close Range Mega Setup: 7x Modal Mega Neutrons 1x Named NOS 1x MWD II 1x Tracking Computer II 1x Cap Injector 1x Cap Recharger II 1x LAR II 1x MAR II 3x Hardners 1x Reactor Control Unit II 1x Magnetic Field Stabilizer II You may have to meddle with an slot or two to fit your current powergrid/cpu because of your skills... but these are somewhat proper mega setups. And yes, a Raven can get my armor either all the way down, and sometimes even into structure. But then they run out of cap, and they are dead. It's cheaper to repair a battleship vs. buying/fitting a new one. Basicly any decent short range setup starts with web & scrambler.
lythos miralbar	Posted - 2005.09.20 12:42:00 - [166] Edited by: lythos miralbar on 20/09/2005 12:48:04 Actualy this thread has been pretty usefull!! I very rarely pvp in a BS unless I'm facing superior numbers, then I roll out my mega with the following fitting and snipe from 150 to 190km.. high = 7x 425mm prototype gauss mids = 2x Sensor booster II's, 2x Tracking comp II's Lows = 2x tracking enhancer II's, 5 Mag stabs That works pretty well, and you can swap to antimatter and melt syuff at 50km pretty effectively, but its boring.. I want to get in close and personal!! Nice named ion basters, a mwd, cap injector and some kind of tank seem pretty much essential to me though before I try using a blaster setup.. however.. 1) Nice named ion's are INCREDIBLY rare from what Ive seen. Also pretty expensive and personally I'd think twice about pvp'ing in a mega with 7x nice ions. Ive looked bloody everywhere. So that means electrons (crap dammage) or Neutrons (Im sure I had some grid round here somewhere). 2) MWD crucifies your cap.. a nice change to the mega would be to give it a bonus to MWD cap use/cap penalty. But that would mean youd have to remove one of the other bonus's, and the ironic part is it really could do with 3 bonus's from what Ive seen so far to make it usefull. Ive been thinking about this though.. High = 7x 350mm prototype gauss, 1x assault launcher Mids = Named 100nm AB, X5 or better web, Tech II target painter, Tech II tracking disrupter Lows= Large accomodation repairer, 3 hardners, 3 dammage mods (2 dammage mods+cap relay) What do you think? could that be effective at say 30 to 40km? EDIT:- one more thing.. in a close range blaster mega (or any close range ship be it frig/cruiser/hac/bc )you have to absolutely commit. assuming both sides bought scramblers and the wcs stayed at home, once you commit someone IS going to die, period. However in a beam/artie/rail setup most fights happen outside 20km if possible (not gate gank). So this means that you can always warp off if things get to hot. This is I believe why we see less close range ships in eve. Its the 'commit' factor.. ESPECIALY if there may be other hostiles around to come sid your target once you engage.
Sally	Posted - 2005.09.20 12:50:00 - [167] Originally by: Arbenowskee Where do u people live? Raven does huge amount of DMG? LOL? Caldari are the only race without a 1000 DPS ship. Raven is kinda jack of all trades, but Minmatar also dont have ship with 1000 DPS. And what? -- Stories: #1 --
jonus Rath	Posted - 2005.09.20 15:05:00 - [168] I like the mega, I also like the Dom. I think there bothgood ship but you just need to know how to set them up. I wont say that i have a great setup but i bet i could take on alot of stuff if i really had to. I hereby decree that all 0.0 space corps are full of asshats.
Garreck	Posted - 2005.09.20 15:09:00 - [169] Originally by: lythos miralbar High = 7x 350mm prototype gauss, 1x assault launcher Mids = Named 100nm AB, X5 or better web, Tech II target painter, Tech II tracking disrupter Lows= Large accomodation repairer, 3 hardners, 3 dammage mods (2 dammage mods+cap relay) What do you think? could that be effective at say 30 to 40km? Switch out one of your mids for a tracking computer II and you'll have an optimal (with antimatter) of around 30km. Not sure you'd be able to fit this exact setup, but you're on to something here. Garreck Aeternus Crusade Aku. Soku. Zan.
HippoKing	Posted - 2005.09.20 15:46:00 - [170] Originally by: Lord Timelord Decent Long Range Mega Setup: 7x 425mm Prototype Gauss Railguns 1x Cloak II (or) NOS 1x AB II 1x Sensor Booster II 1x Tracking Computer II 1x Sensor Dampener II (or) Target Painter 1x Large Armor Repairer II 4x Active Hardners 1x RCU II 1x Cap Relay whiskey tango foxtrot? -- taking over the world, one sig at a time
Leto Nyx	Posted - 2005.09.20 16:18:00 - [171] Originally by: Ginger Magician I am the best and few would privately dispute it Victim :Leto Nyx Corporation :Federal Navy Academy Ship type :Catalyst System :Eifer (0.4) Killer :Ginger Magician Corporation :OctoberSnow Corp Ship type :Apocalypse Weapon :Tachyon Beam Laser II Dunno about the Raven v Megathron stuff, but I know who wins a Catalyst v Apoc fight. :-) I have to say though, I'm not exactly overawed and rendered speechless by the greatness of somebody who gate camps 0.4 empire space picking off n00bs, although I admit my exploding corpse was quite spectacular and impressive ;-) And before you ask, no I don't fancy a rematch thank you
Cirdan Vardamir	Posted - 2005.09.20 17:46:00 - [172] Edited by: Cirdan Vardamir on 20/09/2005 17:51:13 The Megathron should win everytime against a raven using torpedos if he is expecting to be facing a raven. One word that strikes fear into the heart of any Siege launcher fitted raven pilot: smartbomb. I've taken out ravens with shield tank + bcus in lows with all arbalest sieges at 12-15km in an autocannon fitted tempest with 1 heavy nos, 1 smartbomb. The Duration on the SB is shorter than the ravens RoF.
Dreez	Posted - 2005.09.20 18:22:00 - [173] Quote: No other turret class can match the sheer destructive power of particle blasters Concidering CCP themselves wrote this in the description for all blasters. A Megathron equipped with these guns should be able to ****any ship once its close enough to use their "Sheer destructive power" even Autotampests or torpravens - Keep in mind that not only are these guns suppose to be hard hitting, they are on a ship that makes them hit even harder and also track better. k, let not rabble anymore. I might have ATUK in my tag, but i have OC in my DNA*
duduk	Posted - 2005.09.20 20:57:00 - [174] Originally by: Dreez Quote: No other turret class can match the sheer destructive power of particle blasters Concidering CCP themselves wrote this in the description for all blasters. A Megathron equipped with these guns should be able to *****any ship once its close enough to use their "Sheer destructive power" even Autotampests or torpravens - Keep in mind that not only are these guns suppose to be hard hitting, they are on a ship that makes them hit even harder and also track better. k, let not rabble anymore. bah, I give up... ...nerf drones !! :) jk
Wrayeth	Posted - 2005.09.20 21:00:00 - [175] Edited by: Wrayeth on 20/09/2005 21:00:00 Originally by: Dreez Quote: No other turret class can match the sheer destructive power of particle blasters Note that the raven is NOT a "turret class" ship. Thank you, and have a nice day. -Wrayeth
duduk	Posted - 2005.09.20 21:10:00 - [176] Originally by: Cirdan Vardamir Edited by: Cirdan Vardamir on 20/09/2005 17:51:13 The Megathron should win everytime against a raven using torpedos if he is expecting to be facing a raven. One word that strikes fear into the heart of any Siege launcher fitted raven pilot: smartbomb. I've taken out ravens with shield tank + bcus in lows with all arbalest sieges at 12-15km in an autocannon fitted tempest with 1 heavy nos, 1 smartbomb. The Duration on the SB is shorter than the ravens RoF. aye, but that would take out the megas drones. ...maybe the amount of defenders used to take out torps should be reduced. that would mean that if a torpaven tries to do long range combat (or hit a blasterboat on approach) his damage would be reduced. As the range shrinks the effectivenss of the defenders reduces to zero. I have defenders at lvl5 and they do seem to work half decent on cruise missiles at range. I would say reduce the amount of defenders needed to take out a torp to 2 and see ( they are pretty damn slow )
Sadist	Posted - 2005.09.20 21:16:00 - [177] Quote: Mega - great sniper/top damage dealer/nice tank Domi - top solo battleship Thorax - top cruiser ingame since I can remember. Ishkur/Enyo - both top assualt frigates Moros - damn how many have we seen ingame already. probably the most versitile dread ingame. Obelisk - 2nd largest capacity Deimos - top damage dealer Ishtar - top solo HAC Iteron Mark V - best industrial. Mega - worst tank of all tier 2 bs, except tempest, damage is is also 3rd worst, due to the most tanked dmg types. Tempest is as good of a sniper. Thorax - not much better than any 1600mm platecruiser, esp. maller Ishkur, Enyo - Ishkur is mediocre at best, Enyo is equal with harpy. Domi - worst BS to fit, horrible DPS without top skills. HAC's - no argument here. The rest are uncommon ships. Umm, the _best_ ship? Hardly. Some situations take the best pilot on a mega to even keep up with the worse fitted tier 2 BS. --------------- VIP member of the [23]
HippoKing	Posted - 2005.09.20 22:24:00 - [178] has anyone noticed how gallente say "kin/thermal is most tanked" and amarr always say "em/thermal is most tanked"? -- taking over the world, one sig at a time
Kalyster	Posted - 2005.09.20 22:43:00 - [179] Originally by: Ginger Magician certainly i still have no problem killing minmatar and ammar ships in my mega A Mega can beat any Amarr and Minmatar ship !? Nerf the Mega ! Seriously, I understand you may be worried about your supposed close range supremacy, but you should accept that in this precise situation of a 1on1 BS fight, the raven may win against your megathron. Because if it doesn't win there, where will it ? And anyway, any miner will tell you that a mega owns a raven
DrunkenOne	Posted - 2005.09.20 23:21:00 - [180] Originally by: HippoKing has anyone noticed how gallente say "kin/thermal is most tanked" and amarr always say "em/thermal is most tanked"? Kin/thermal is definatly worse than em/thermal. Thermal is the worst damage type in the game and kinetic is second worse. Exp>EM>kinetic>Therma
duduk	Posted - 2005.09.21 00:19:00 - [181] Originally by: Sadist Quote: Mega - great sniper/top damage dealer/nice tank Domi - top solo battleship Thorax - top cruiser ingame since I can remember. Ishkur/Enyo - both top assualt frigates Moros - damn how many have we seen ingame already. probably the most versitile dread ingame. Obelisk - 2nd largest capacity Deimos - top damage dealer Ishtar - top solo HAC Iteron Mark V - best industrial. Mega - worst tank of all tier 2 bs, except tempest, damage is is also 3rd worst, due to the most tanked dmg types. Tempest is as good of a sniper. Thorax - not much better than any 1600mm platecruiser, esp. maller Ishkur, Enyo - Ishkur is mediocre at best, Enyo is equal with harpy. Domi - worst BS to fit, horrible DPS without top skills. HAC's - no argument here. The rest are uncommon ships. Umm, the _best_ ship? Hardly. Some situations take the best pilot on a mega to even keep up with the worse fitted tier 2 BS. I see 1 Caldari ship on your list. Thorax is the top cruiser hands down. Have you tried a Caracal with a 1600mm plate?..right, exactly. I didn't bring up this list to start a fleet ****ing match. I brought it up because as a Gallente you have options. 1v1's are rare in eve. You are basing your facts on 1v1s why should we nerf a ship on such a rare encounter?
Ginger Magician	Posted - 2005.09.21 09:57:00 - [182] Edited by: Ginger Magician on 21/09/2005 09:58:43 This sure raised a lot of interest didnt it - it must be my name at the top What i would say after reading through all of this is that its pretty clear that the raven cant be beat at close quarters by any other bs atm.Most of the posters saying the raven is not the best are caldari alts and characters who are specilaised for caldari bs and are scared it will be nerfed as it surely has to be. For example DUDUK is an alt of a character in minmatar marines safid gorbet's corp and as most will know they r both caldari specialists.Its interesting to note that most of the posters who agree with me regarding the mega are well known pvpers who although i dont most of them personally i know of them through word of mouth and reputation and they have posted here not out of spite but with genuine opinions that deserve to be listened to.Well lets hope ccp take some notice otherwise its gonna be raveneve again pretty soon Roll on the next patch
Jim Raynor	Posted - 2005.09.21 10:11:00 - [183] Ginger: 1) You aren't the best pilot ever in EVE okay? 2) Just because you lost to a Raven doesn't mean Ravens are imbalanced, it's okay for a Caldari ship to win now and then, despite CCPs efforts to make sure this never happens, deal with it. 3) Blaster setups are not exactly the most practical of PvP setups in EVE, so you lost a 1v1 ****ing contest, get over it. The guy could have majorly tanked up kinetic/thermal for all you know, do you even know? ------
Waut	Posted - 2005.09.21 10:17:00 - [184] Originally by: Ginger Magician Shield is now far too good compared to armor tanking. You got to be kidding
duduk	Posted - 2005.09.21 10:44:00 - [185] Edited by: duduk on 21/09/2005 10:44:10 Originally by: Ginger Magician Edited by: Ginger Magician on 21/09/2005 09:58:43 This sure raised a lot of interest didnt it - it must be my name at the top What i would say after reading through all of this is that its pretty clear that the raven cant be beat at close quarters by any other bs atm.Most of the posters saying the raven is not the best are caldari alts and characters who are specilaised for caldari bs and are scared it will be nerfed as it surely has to be. For example DUDUK is an alt of a character in minmatar marines safid gorbet's corp and as most will know they r both caldari specialists.Its interesting to note that most of the posters who agree with me regarding the mega are well known pvpers... ..not all agreed with you. only the ones that actually fly Megas which is hardly a non biased oppinion. ...and no I'm not in safid blah blah corp. I'm in a corp that likes to take over regions
Wrayeth	Posted - 2005.09.21 10:56:00 - [186] Edited by: Wrayeth on 21/09/2005 11:01:09 Originally by: Ginger Magician What i would say after reading through all of this is that its pretty clear that the raven cant be beat at close quarters by any other bs atm.Most of the posters saying the raven is not the best are caldari alts and characters who are specilaised for caldari bs and are scared it will be nerfed as it surely has to be. So, um, why does it have to be nerfed, again? Reread your blaster description: it says it's the most powerful TURRET class. Also, the mega is not a one-trick horse like the raven - in addition to using blasters,it can fit for long range and doesn't have to worry about its target warping out before the shots from its 425's reach the target. Hell, as someone already mentioned, you can even fit one with mining lasers and be far and away more effective than a raven. Quote: For example DUDUK is an alt of a character in minmatar marines safid gorbet's corp and as most will know they r both caldari specialists.Its interesting to note that most of the posters who agree with me regarding the mega are well known pvpers who although i dont most of them personally i know of them through word of mouth and reputation and they have posted here not out of spite but with genuine opinions that deserve to be listened to.Well lets hope ccp take some notice otherwise its gonna be raveneve again pretty soon Roll on the next patch Right...because ravens are effective at long range when the target can just warp out before the missiles hit. Go get a raven and fly it in PvP - you'll find it sucks at any range but short if your opponent has even the slightest inkling of what he's doing. Also, you'll find it sucks against cruisers and frigates at any range - the only exception to this is a cruiser with its MWD active. In contrast, a mega with 425's is very much a credible threat at long range. EDIT: BTW, someone do a DPS comparison between the blasterthron and the torp raven, please. -Wrayeth
Doomdutch	Posted - 2005.09.21 14:10:00 - [187] I like it when no good pilots instead of working up their skills and/or improving their fittings just scream the NERF alerty everytime they get beaten up by a Caldari ship. It's not because CCP nerfed it once (which was needed) that they will do it again everytime a whinny user like Ginger isn't happy. Come on, man! Fit 3 Gravimetric Jammers, we'll see how a Raven does after that. Use your brains. Oh Nos!!! A Raven can kill another Raven, we'll have to nerf it! Hell, let's make a Raven unable to kill a shuttle. More hell! Let's make sure a Raven can't undock! It's the only way to make sure. Ginger, just become a better pilot and stop ******* whinning!
Jim Raynor	Posted - 2005.09.21 14:16:00 - [188] My blinged out t2 Siege Raven with torps does ~720 DPS, and that's with dread gurista ballistics. ------
Ginger Magician	Posted - 2005.09.21 14:21:00 - [189] Maxed skilled pilots in megathrons cannot beat average raven pilots - we not talking about tank ceo here u know - these r guys with a few millions sps in missiles and caldari bs 4 - god knows what facing a maxed skilled pilot would be like.If thats balance im a not a redhead
Jim Raynor	Posted - 2005.09.21 14:24:00 - [190] Originally by: Ginger Magician Maxed skilled pilots in megathrons cannot beat average raven pilots - we not talking about tank ceo here u know - these r guys with a few millions sps in missiles and caldari bs 4 - god knows what facing a maxed skilled pilot would be like.If thats balance im a not a redhead ginger you never answered my question. how was the raven you fought tanked? if his midslots were 2x thermal 2x kinetic 1 xl sb and 1 boost amp, duh, you can't really win, he is way tanked out against your guns. the pvp viability of that setup with gankageddons around, zero before you call a nerf, could you please enlighten us how this nub raven defeated the grandmaster of eve? ------
Ginger Magician	Posted - 2005.09.21 14:37:00 - [191] I dont reply to caldari lovers and thread hijackers sorry When u made 3000 kills let me know then we can discuss things ok
Jim Raynor	Posted - 2005.09.21 14:40:00 - [192] Edited by: Jim Raynor on 21/09/2005 14:41:56 Originally by: Ginger Magician I dont reply to caldari lovers and thread hijackers sorry When u made 3000 kills let me know then we can discuss things ok rofl.. damn dude can i be like you when i grow up? i hope to be the bestest player in eve ever as well k? retard. ------
Dimitri Forgroth	Posted - 2005.09.21 14:47:00 - [193] This thread has made my day a few times now.. it's quite astonishing. Originally by: HippoKing YES! i am in antoher person;s sig /marks it off taking over the world one sig at a time \o/ DPS Sheet
Farjung	Posted - 2005.09.21 14:53:00 - [194] Edited by: Farjung on 21/09/2005 14:54:16 Haha, despite concerted efforts to turn this thread into something useful, it just wouldn't happen. Anyway. Of course a specifically-fitted blasterthron can kill a generally-fitted raven, and vice-versa. In the general v general case, I think the raven has the slight edge, but it's not that extreme. My tech II blaster fitted general-purpose blasterthron can still fairly comfortably kill my alt's level 4 skilled, arbalest fitted general-purpose raven as long as the first shot is fired within 8-10 km, though I'm pretty certain that when I get her missile skills up to the same level as my gunnery skills I'll be in trouble unless I start using a specific fitting. And her engineering skills are slightly lacking at the moment as well, so there's room for improvement there as well. With anecdotal evidence from both sides of the fence with people saying how their blasterthrons have owned multiple ravens, and vice-versa, it's probably fair to say the truth lies somewhere in the middle and the balance isn't completely out of whack. If the raven pilots stay away from the tracking disruptors and the mega pilots stay away from the smartbombs everyone should get along fine . Someone really needs to keep me away from the Taranis
DrunkenOne	Posted - 2005.09.21 16:27:00 - [195] Originally by: Ginger Magician I dont reply to caldari lovers and thread hijackers sorry When u made 3000 kills let me know then we can discuss things ok I have 3001 kills. Will you reply to me?
HippoKing	Posted - 2005.09.21 16:38:00 - [196] Originally by: Ginger Magician I dont reply to caldari lovers and thread hijackers sorry When u made 3000 kills let me know then we can discuss things ok Credibility, RIP -- taking over the world, one sig at a time
Hot Space	Posted - 2005.09.21 19:06:00 - [197] Lol normally i don't read this but a corp member of me pointed to this. Ginger you must be the baddest looser ever. You gank newbies in shuttles,frig, ... with your uber Mega full with TLII but when we take revenge is some decent combat you just start a topic about the raven is nerfed up. Comme'n men just learn to loose and stop to be pathtetic and play the game m8 and fyi you can type what you want i don't follow this up or i will have compassion with you. it's just game my friend
Elrathias	Posted - 2005.09.21 19:32:00 - [198] Originally by: Jim Raynor Edited by: Jim Raynor on 21/09/2005 14:41:56 Originally by: Ginger Magician I dont reply to caldari lovers and thread hijackers sorry When u made 3000 kills let me know then we can discuss things ok rofl.. damn dude can i be like you when i grow up? i hope to be the bestest player in eve ever as well k? retard. SIGNED. --------------------------
Stockarian	Posted - 2005.09.21 19:49:00 - [199] Sounds like a clear cut case of the "waaaahhh, I just got waxed by a noob and I don't have to take it cause I think I'm the best syndrome" Get a life you loser. Cheers, Stock.
Nira Li	Posted - 2005.09.21 20:24:00 - [200] Originally by: Ginger Magician I dont reply to caldari lovers and thread hijackers sorry When u made 3000 kills let me know then we can discuss things ok well I killed a raven in my thorax after cold war patch, wanna talk? You Will Cry My Name_________ Sponsored by: Omnicore Systems - "Building for the people"
rig0r	Posted - 2005.09.21 20:47:00 - [201] Lol its another Ginger - I like to make myself look like an idiot - Magician thread So you lost your BS to a real opponent after gatesniping 50 indies. Buhuhuuu.
DTM2752	Posted - 2005.09.21 21:49:00 - [202] Originally by: Ginger Magician I dont reply to caldari lovers and thread hijackers sorry When u made 3000 kills let me know then we can discuss things ok lol.
Cuisinart	Posted - 2005.09.21 21:51:00 - [203] Originally by: Dreez OK, i¦ll try to explaining why the Raven beats the blasterthron. First Round : The Raven does not need tracking which meens that its torps will always hit for full damage besides the resist. -- A Blasterthrons guns are dependent on tracking and to be really really upclose, being that close will screw up your tracking if you¦re going in a to high transversal. Second Round : Ravens also does not need to have an MWD equipped to do its job and therefor always have more cap to tank with, it also never have to use its cap for anything else then tank which leaves the ravenpilot able to focus on which torp is doing the most dmg. -- The Blasterthron is forced to use MWD and webb, which cuts its medslots down to 2. This resulting in only 2 slots to use for either scrambler, sensorbooster, Injector or caprechargers. Blasterthrons also have to spend their allready weakened cap into 3 ! areas which covers 1: Navigatiing, 2: Defense, 3: Offense. Round 3 : As mentioned in the previous round, the raven can fit a very decent tank while also fitting a full rack of nasty launchers. Try fitting a full rack of neutrons and a decent tank on the blasterthron without sacrifising all Mags. Round 4 : Raven covers all 4 dmgtypes which is a huge advantage in 1on1s since you will always do your max dmg. Blasterthrons however, are left with Kin/Therm which the shields allready has good resistance to. Did i forget anything, or do i need to stick it in your eyes so you can see that blasterthrons needs some godforsaken work from TomB & Co to be the CQC-ship its ment to be. Anyone that does not, i dare you to proove me wrong. Well said Vision without action is a daydream Action without vision is a nightmare
MolRob	Posted - 2005.09.21 22:45:00 - [204] buy a raven, join the club
Dreez	Posted - 2005.09.21 23:00:00 - [205] Edited by: Dreez on 21/09/2005 23:09:04 Edited by: Dreez on 21/09/2005 23:08:12 Originally by: MolRob buy a raven, join the club There will be a cold day in h3ll before i take a raven into combat. Raven is teh n00bship,comes with the description: "Requires almost no skill - just press Teh win button" Originally by: Soros I saw a friend take down an atuk raven with his blasterthron. don't whine.... Even a blind chicken can find a corn everynow & then.. I might have ATUK in my tag, but i have OC in my DNA
Megadon	Posted - 2005.09.21 23:10:00 - [206] Edited by: Megadon on 21/09/2005 23:09:54 Originally by: Ginger Magician Maxed skilled pilots in megathrons cannot beat average raven pilots - we not talking about tank ceo here u know - these r guys with a few millions sps in missiles and caldari bs 4 - god knows what facing a maxed skilled pilot would be like.If thats balance im a not a redhead Bullsh1t [[Originally by: Mangus Thermopyle I thought EVE would require dedication and long term planning. I could never dream that the third ship I piloted would be the end of the line.]]
duduk	Posted - 2005.09.22 01:15:00 - [207] Edited by: duduk on 22/09/2005 01:16:47 Edited by: duduk on 22/09/2005 01:15:45 Originally by: Dreez Raven is teh n00bship,comes with the description: "Requires almost no skill - just press Teh win button" I think Dreez is Gingers alt No matter how many 'teh' you put in your statement you still sound like a -----
Tigerclaw1987	Posted - 2005.09.22 02:26:00 - [208] Originally by: Dreez There will be a cold day in h3ll before i take a raven into combat. Raven is teh n00bship,comes with the description: "Requires almost no skill - just press Teh win button" what buttons that agen serious note: if everything was so "balanced and perfect" ther wudnt be eny fun? or challenge in it and u wud get bored very quikly
Jalonan	Posted - 2005.09.22 02:42:00 - [209] G > lol G > even at these odds G > F**** H* G > that indy is tougher than a bs G > ccps r sucj idiots G > how can an indy tank a bs G > that is stupididty G > its tanking me easily G > not even a contest
Ginger Magician	Posted - 2005.09.22 02:47:00 - [210] Imagine me in a raven Would noobs not like that and i dont just kill shuttles if u check this thread i also made the statement that i have the most solo bs kills in the game - a fact which no one challenged me on actually. The fact remains that shield tanked ships have a huge advantage and apart from the tempest which is an average shield tanker at best no gallente or amarr bs can sheild tank at all so they have no chance. Dont bring the stupid dom into this either - that is a ship useful only in very particular situations there is no way u can say it is a general combat bs as compared to the rest
Sadist	Posted - 2005.09.22 02:54:00 - [211] Let me quote the wonderful response again. Originally by: Dreez OK, i¦ll try to explaining why the Raven beats the blasterthron. First Round : The Raven does not need tracking which meens that its torps will always hit for full damage besides the resist. -- A Blasterthrons guns are dependent on tracking and to be really really upclose, being that close will screw up your tracking if you¦re going in a to high transversal. Second Round : Ravens also does not need to have an MWD equipped to do its job and therefor always have more cap to tank with, it also never have to use its cap for anything else then tank which leaves the ravenpilot able to focus on which torp is doing the most dmg. -- The Blasterthron is forced to use MWD and webb, which cuts its medslots down to 2. This resulting in only 2 slots to use for either scrambler, sensorbooster, Injector or caprechargers. Blasterthrons also have to spend their allready weakened cap into 3 ! areas which covers 1: Navigatiing, 2: Defense, 3: Offense. Round 3 : As mentioned in the previous round, the raven can fit a very decent tank while also fitting a full rack of nasty launchers. Try fitting a full rack of neutrons and a decent tank on the blasterthron without sacrifising all Mags. Round 4 : Raven covers all 4 dmgtypes which is a huge advantage in 1on1s since you will always do your max dmg. Blasterthrons however, are left with Kin/Therm which the shields allready has good resistance to. Did i forget anything, or do i need to stick it in your eyes so you can see that blasterthrons needs some godforsaken work from TomB & Co to be the CQC-ship its ment to be. Anyone that does not, i dare you to proove me wrong. I kinda feel sorry for GM in a very special way. While he does post his opinions in the forms of rants and whines, he did bring up some valid points. One caldari pilot said (about 10 posts before in this thread), that if raven had a full mid tank against a mega, it _automatically_ gains an IWIN button against it. Now, please give me 1 mega setup that gets 99.9% an IWIN button over any other Tier 2 BS, in a realistic situation. Plz, then you can test it on SiSi with someone of equal skill (I dont fly BS anymore, sry and my skills arent exactly uber on them). Okay, so the mega's top DPS could be around a 1000, while a raven's is 720, but to get a similar tank you'd have to sacrifice all but 1 low slot, limiting you to 1 dmg mod. What's the DPS then? Maybe another dumbass, who flamed me earlier could explain to me how exactly does this make the mega _uber versatile_? Then, another person said that mega really _is_ crap at 1v1, but why should we base the comparison on the tiny minority of players. Well, umm, not everyone flies in gang of at least 5-6 people, and there are a lot of solo pilots, including GingerM. In a fleet battle, where tank won't save you, I can state that all BS are the same: just fit a lot of dmg mods and biggest guns, and fire away. And even then the mega will lose due to crappy damage types (thermal is dominant in rail damage). Proposed fix for the mega: -1 high +1 mid. K,thx. Or change the tracking bonus to +7.5% or 5% falloff per level. --------------- VIP member of the [23]
Garreck	Posted - 2005.09.22 02:56:00 - [212] Originally by: Ginger Magician The fact remains that shield tanked ships have a huge advantage and apart from the tempest which is an average shield tanker at best no gallente or amarr bs can sheild tank at all so they have no chance. Dont bring the stupid dom into this either - that is a ship useful only in very particular situations there is no way u can say it is a general combat bs as compared to the rest I'm amazed you can say that "shield tanked ships have a huge advantage" with a straight face. As for the raven vs 'thron issue...try rails. You'll love it. Garreck Aeternus Crusade Aku. Soku. Zan.
duduk	Posted - 2005.09.22 05:54:00 - [213] Originally by: Sadist Maybe another dumbass, who flamed me earlier could explain to me how exactly does this make the mega _uber versatile_? Nobody flamed you. If you go back and read your post you were the one that came out flamming -short term memory 4tw. Originally by: Sadist Then, another person said that mega really _is_ crap at 1v1, but why should we base the comparison on the tiny minority of players. I think you're getting your quotes mixed up. The mega isn't crap. The only ship that challenges it in close quarters is the Raven and only when the Mega is fitted with a mwd. I know plenty of guys that take down Ravens using support for a warp in point. If you want to fight up close and personal these are the sacrifices that you must make. You could also argue that you don't even need a web if you're going up against a Raven. Originally by: Sadist Well, umm, not everyone flies in gang of at least 5-6 people, and there are a lot of solo pilots, including GingerM. That is true. I think most people would prefer to fight solo if they had the option. As most of us have seen ship balance is very difficult to achieve. An example: 3 megas vs. 3 ravens. Who would win? I would put my money on the focused firepower of the Megas. I've seen this on TQ and on Sisi. Originally by: Sadist In a fleet battle, where tank won't save you, I can state that all BS are the same: just fit a lot of dmg mods and biggest guns, and fire away. And even then the mega will lose due to crappy damage types (thermal is dominant in rail damage). I agree with some of this. The point is Mega still can do high dot even with bad damage. It's all relative. If I put out bad damage type, but put out an extra 25% then doesn't this negate this. Originally by: Sadist Proposed fix for the mega: -1 high +1 mid. K,thx. Or change the tracking bonus to +7.5% or 5% falloff per level. This would make the Mega overpowered. Why would you boost a ship that is apparently balanced with the 2 remaining races.
Megadon	Posted - 2005.09.22 06:05:00 - [214] Edited by: Megadon on 22/09/2005 06:05:04 Originally by: Jalonan Ginger > lol Ginger > even at these odds Ginger > F**** H* Ginger > that indy is tougher than a bs Ginger > ccps r sucj idiots Ginger > how can an indy tank a bs Ginger > that is stupididty Ginger > its tanking me easily Ginger > not even a contest God that is priceless!!! [[Originally by: Mangus Thermopyle I thought EVE would require dedication and long term planning. I could never dream that the third ship I piloted would be the end of the line.]]
Jim Raynor	Posted - 2005.09.22 06:12:00 - [215] Originally by: Jalonan G > lol G > even at these odds G > F**** H* G > that indy is tougher than a bs G > ccps r sucj idiots G > how can an indy tank a bs G > that is stupididty G > its tanking me easily G > not even a contest its like when cartman sees the ass-faced people, and its so funny it kills his sense of humor forever.. :( ------
Stormfront	Posted - 2005.09.22 07:35:00 - [216] Quote: The only ship that challenges it in close quarters is the Raven and only when the Mega is fitted with a mwd. False. Best close range ship if using cap boosters and tanks of any nature between Mega and Tempest. Tempest will win.
Waut	Posted - 2005.09.22 09:07:00 - [217] Originally by: Garreck Originally by: Ginger Magician The fact remains that shield tanked ships have a huge advantage and apart from the tempest which is an average shield tanker at best no gallente or amarr bs can sheild tank at all so they have no chance. Dont bring the stupid dom into this either - that is a ship useful only in very particular situations there is no way u can say it is a general combat bs as compared to the rest I'm amazed you can say that "shield tanked ships have a huge advantage" with a straight face. Only people who never shieldtanked themselves can do that me thinks
KalKalash	Posted - 2005.09.28 22:18:00 - [218] Edited by: KalKalash on 28/09/2005 22:17:55 It's not the fact that the rav has been nerfed. it has just been bought in line with other battleships!. A skilled mega pilot could easily take a skilled rav pilot down at close range. np
Grey Area	Posted - 2005.09.28 22:42:00 - [219] Originally by: Ginger Magician I have no objection to a real specialist missile user with most skills at 4/5 and caldari bs 5 being hard to beat in a raven that is only fair but what about gunnery users - i am approaching now 13.5mill sps and against skilled raven pilots i have no chance to win unless i also fly a raven myself and throw away the years of training gunnery skills - THAT is what i find unfair and object to.You also told me in that convo that megathrons r useless in your opinion and that u had never lost a fight to a megathron pilot - this speaks volumes. I can't let this one go. Let's pretend I believe that you now lose in combat to a Raven every time (which I don't). You are whinging that something you used to do before, you can no longer do, and that to be able to do it again you are going to have to switch your entire training program. Sorry, but I don't remember getting much sympathy from you when Raven users complained that we used to be able to solo level 4's, that the missile nerf prevented us from doing that, and that to do them again we would be better off training for turrets. Karma's a ****, ain't it? ========================================= I'm ALLOWED to cheat. I'm a STARSHIP. * =========================================
Dr Tetrahydrocannabinol	Posted - 2005.09.28 22:46:00 - [220] Just one question: how do you expect to hold your target down wont he just warp away? Don't forget to mention the Ravens worst speed and mass of all BS. You ******* moron. --------------------------------------------- "Where the air is crisp."
LUKEC	Posted - 2005.09.28 23:05:00 - [221] Originally by: Dr Tetrahydrocannabinol Just one question: how do you expect to hold your target down wont he just warp away? Don't forget to mention the Ravens worst speed and mass of all BS. You ******* moron. Tracking on blasters is so bad that u cannot be aligned... So scram is enough.

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 :: [one page]

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.