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Mocam
EVE University Ivy League
53
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Posted - 2011.10.22 13:53:00 -
[91] - Quote
Ammzi wrote:Mocam wrote:
1) Incursions should be for LARGE scale PvE. Scaling up value to effort/risks.
Incursion break outs: Scout = Level 1's Vanguards = Level 2's Assault = Level 3's HQ = Level 4's.
Why are you comparing incursions to missions? Cause it's not the same, at all. And that comparison is wrong as well mate. Here's a little something for anyone saying "incursions are safe" All these kills, incursion pilots. Screwed and griefed. a http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=reddragon54304
Because they do break apart in levels and whereas you have 1 loss mail - daily there are mission runners losing ships to PvP across sec levels. They are NO more dangerous than doing missions.
As for how they split up "level wise" - it's not the same as mission running at all. Scoutsre about as tough as L3- L4 missions. Vanguards are roughly on par with tougher L5's or a 10/10 complex. Call them as you will makes no difference in what they are and the fact that there are 4 "levels" to the encounter types.
Yet the higher tier complex running and missions require one to go into more dangerous space. Even L4's will send you to or through lowsec systems and rejecting those missions has penalties. There are none involved with these. |
Widemouth Deepthroat
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2011.10.22 14:56:00 -
[92] - Quote
Now that people have had a taste of the good isk from incursions I think it is time to move it off to low sec only with the lvl5s. If they have some balls they will continue doing them in low sec. If not, well go back to lvl4s.
If not then move lvl5s back to high sec and unnerf anomalies. so people can make a steady 100mil isk per hour in 0.0 without having access to the best true sec.
Atm I am very tempted to grind up my sec status so I can do high sec incursions. I do lvl5s and it just isn't worth the risk when I could easily make similar isk per hour in the safety of high sec(and I wouldn't have to triple box to do it!!).
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Ammzi
Imperial Guardians Blazing Angels Alliance
71
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Posted - 2011.10.22 15:13:00 -
[93] - Quote
delete double post please. quote CCP Spitfire
"Hello Im Blue,"
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Ammzi
Imperial Guardians Blazing Angels Alliance
71
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Posted - 2011.10.22 15:13:00 -
[94] - Quote
Mocam wrote:
Because they do break apart in levels and whereas you have 1 loss mail - daily there are mission runners losing ships to PvP across sec levels. They are NO more dangerous than doing missions.
It's relative. It's so unbelievably relative mate. One pilot may not have lost any ships in incursions ever while another pilot might have lost several faction battleships and t3's over the course of a few months. If you want to look at it as an average I doubt you'll be able to, because you don't have access to the necessary data, and again you might be able to although it won't be accurate.
Either way, you don't know how many mission in EVE and you only have a vague estimate of how many run incursions on a regular basis. I could easily say the same about incursions. DAILY people lose ships to incursions across several sec level. Look for yourself in constellation ship losses over highsec, lowsec and nullsec. Daily losses.
And what loss mail? I was talking about the guy's kills. All those kills he's been having the past couple of days account for BILLIONS of isk, all of those are incursion runners that have been griefed.
Just because those who run incursions are much more public about it by having massive channels and a large concentration of pilots in one place doesn't mean you can automatically assume anything about them without having necessary data when comparing missioners and incursion runners. I'd say at peak time, a saturday or friday afternoon you'll be able to count a max of 500-800 active incursion runners at good circumstances.
Let's just assume:
3 highsec incursions, each with 3 vanguard system, each with 4 fleets in them (extremely crowded). 10 (11) pilots * 4 fleets * 3 systems * 3 constellations =360 - 396 active pilots earning isk.
Let's for that sake assume we have 4 assault fleets and 2 headquarter fleets:
20 * 4 + 40 * 2 = 160 pilots.
At best let's assume a total of these 520-556 pilots are all earning an average of 70 m/hour. This is totally viable, since some fleets are earning 40 m/hour because of dreadful long breaks, losing sites, forming fleet, losing members or waiting for better sites to spawn while other fleets are earning 120 m/hour.
So 520-556 * 120 m/hour = 36,4-38,9 billion isk is being created for incursions at PEAK time and EXTREME crowdness in highsec which only occurs at max 20 hours a week.
Half a thousand pilots, all this because of half a thousand pilots? Seems quite negligible in my eyes.
quote CCP Spitfire
"Hello Im Blue,"
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Rip Minner
ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries
3
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Posted - 2011.10.22 16:12:00 -
[95] - Quote
Cearain wrote:Ammzi wrote:Cearain wrote:Ammzi wrote:Cearain wrote:
Why do I think a larger percent of mission runners are pvpers than the percent of incursion runners? Becasue although I'm sure the incursion ai is nice, it is not likely as fun as pvp. So if someone is going to have the time to find an incursion and wait for a fleet to form they will also have the time to get in a pvp fleet.
You're so wrong. I just asked in fleet (incursion) how many of them PVP'ed. Out of the 11 active in fleet, 9 of them PVP. Just because one incursion fleet had people who pvp doesn't mean I'm wrong. Also did you see their kill boards? Incursions are more of full-time deal that you use your main for as opposed to a part time alt activity Oh trust me. I know the general picture. I've been doing incursions for the past 9 months and I would know a thing or two about the people who do them and they are from ALL over New Eden. Every single pilot you can imagine, wormholers, missioners, miners, pirates, griefers, nullsec, general traders, manufacturers and many more I have met in incursions. Here you go: http://kb.eve-incursions.net/That is the incursion runners killboard. Do missioners have a killboard like that? I doubt it. I don't know what that board is. How many people are posting to that board and for how long? 72 kills 1 loss? Looks like they really play it safe. Yes you will see all sorts doing incursions the first year it is out. People will check it out. But I suspect in the long run, incursions will be hardcore pve for hard core pvers.
If you even look at the top kill on the board it happends in 0.2 space so what that has to do with high sec Incursions is beyond me. |
Ammzi
Imperial Guardians Blazing Angels Alliance
71
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Posted - 2011.10.22 17:14:00 -
[96] - Quote
Rip Minner wrote:If you even look at the top kill on the board it happends in 0.2 space so what that has to do with high sec Incursions is beyond me.
I was falsifying his statement about Incursion runners not being PvP'ers. Hence the incursion killboard. quote CCP Spitfire
"Hello Im Blue,"
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LacLongQuan
Deep Space Expedition.
1
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Posted - 2011.10.22 18:37:00 -
[97] - Quote
Widemouth Deepthroat wrote:Now that people have had a taste of the good isk from incursions I think it is time to move it off to low sec only with the lvl5s. If they have some balls they will continue doing them in low sec. If not, well go back to lvl4s.
If not then move lvl5s back to high sec and unnerf anomalies. so people can make a steady 100mil isk per hour in 0.0 without having access to the best true sec.
Atm I am very tempted to grind up my sec status so I can do high sec incursions. I do lvl5s and it just isn't worth the risk when I could easily make similar isk per hour in the safety of high sec(and I wouldn't have to triple box to do it!!).
^this, show yourself has balls by doing incursion in low, take the risk like L5s runners, wh dweller and nullsec dweller |
Jinn Rho
Corp 1 Allstars
6
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Posted - 2011.10.23 01:09:00 -
[98] - Quote
LacLongQuan wrote:Widemouth Deepthroat wrote:Now that people have had a taste of the good isk from incursions I think it is time to move it off to low sec only with the lvl5s. If they have some balls they will continue doing them in low sec. If not, well go back to lvl4s.
If not then move lvl5s back to high sec and unnerf anomalies. so people can make a steady 100mil isk per hour in 0.0 without having access to the best true sec.
Atm I am very tempted to grind up my sec status so I can do high sec incursions. I do lvl5s and it just isn't worth the risk when I could easily make similar isk per hour in the safety of high sec(and I wouldn't have to triple box to do it!!).
^this, show yourself has balls by doing incursion in low, take the risk like L5s runners, wh dweller and nullsec dweller
You're missing the 'big picture' of Incursions through the developer's eyes... sure we can talk about isk/risk but that's not the point. The point of Incursions is to provide a viable means of TEAMWORK and actual player interaction/introductions. You take away HS Incursions, you take away hundreds if not thousands of player interactions simply because all those people will go back to what they were doing beforehand to make isk: small predetermined, closed groups, or worse, solo work.
Incursions themselves really have nothing to do with 'a lack of balls,' rather it should be marveled that a player has enough confidence in others to frequently field that 500m-3b isk ship to random PUGs. |
Ratnose Banker
Pink Sockers
6
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Posted - 2011.10.23 01:25:00 -
[99] - Quote
So then shouldn't null/low sec players be fairly rewarded for the coordination and teamwork they put in to hold sov, deter enemy pirates etc? I wish I can have tech moons without having to fight for them. Sounds as silly to me as giving people access to such high income in high sec without having fight for it. |
Ammzi
Imperial Guardians Blazing Angels Alliance
73
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Posted - 2011.10.23 01:42:00 -
[100] - Quote
Ratnose Banker wrote:So then shouldn't null/low sec players be fairly rewarded for the coordination and teamwork they put in to hold sov, deter enemy pirates etc? I wish I can have tech moons without having to fight for them. Sounds as silly to me as giving people access to such high income in high sec without having fight for it.
Hi, my name is Ammzi. I've come here to ask you if you have ever heard about nullsec incursions? You know ... those that give 100 % reward instead of 60 % reward in highsec, practically doubling the reward compared to highsec? quote CCP Spitfire
"Hello Im Blue,"
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Goose99
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
79
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Posted - 2011.10.23 02:59:00 -
[101] - Quote
Ammzi wrote:Ratnose Banker wrote:So then shouldn't null/low sec players be fairly rewarded for the coordination and teamwork they put in to hold sov, deter enemy pirates etc? I wish I can have tech moons without having to fight for them. Sounds as silly to me as giving people access to such high income in high sec without having fight for it. Hi, my name is Ammzi. I've come here to ask you if you have ever heard about nullsec incursions? You know ... those that give 100 % reward instead of 60 % reward in highsec, practically doubling the reward compared to highsec?
That's clearly too much work. He can't just blob it and drop moms on it. What sov null needs is more moon goo. |
Mesh Marillion
Fairlight Corp Rooks and Kings
0
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Posted - 2011.10.23 12:14:00 -
[102] - Quote
The easiest fix for Incursions would just be to increase their difficulty. Best example are HQ sites like Ouroboros that you can run with 8 Logis and 10-15 DPS and you don''t even get full rewards because minimum fleet size for max rewards is like 40. Also having run Vanguards on different characters it think its to easy to sigtank them, given that a lot of their dps comes from SB style hulls.
Basic problem is also, that the resistance penalties are to quickly reduced by completing sites. Another problem with the risk vs reward of nullsec/lowsec vs highsec is that you don't have guaranteed clear out of the final site. If that doesn't happen you risk having more ISK but offsetting that by getting no LPs. Also its way to easy to draw fire on specific ships, especially in larger sites (i've probably tanked 50 % of the Lirsautton bomber waves in the ouroburos sites i've run). We didn't use that weakness of the AI since my ship was one of the thinner tanked ships on the field but its certainly possible to make those sites even easier by cheesing on that part. Another problem of the design is that the payout is mostly fast and rdy cash instead of LPs which is only the icing on the cake for most of the incursion runners.
To summarize my ideas of an adjustment for incursions:
1. Shift rewards more to LPs (and probably do a 50/50 split for lp payout, 50 % for site completion, 50 % for incursion completion) 2. Make certain sites less susceptible to sig/speedtanking 3. Improve AI 4. Reduce the required fleetsizes for all sites by about 20- 30 % (would also reduce the speed at which sites could be blitzed due to having less dps) - problem is that it requires even more logi pilots which are already the bottleneck 5. reduce the speed at which the resistance penalties drop.
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Ammzi
Imperial Guardians Blazing Angels Alliance
73
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Posted - 2011.10.23 13:50:00 -
[103] - Quote
Mesh Marillion wrote:The easiest fix for Incursions would just be to increase their difficulty. Best example are HQ sites like Ouroboros that you can run with 8 Logis and 10-15 DPS and you don''t even get full rewards because minimum fleet size for max rewards is like 40. Also having run Vanguards on different characters it think its to easy to sigtank them, given that a lot of their dps comes from SB style hulls.
Basic problem is also, that the resistance penalties are to quickly reduced by completing sites. Another problem with the risk vs reward of nullsec/lowsec vs highsec is that you don't have guaranteed clear out of the final site. If that doesn't happen you risk having more ISK but offsetting that by getting no LPs. Also its way to easy to draw fire on specific ships, especially in larger sites (i've probably tanked 50 % of the Lirsautton bomber waves in the ouroburos sites i've run). We didn't use that weakness of the AI since my ship was one of the thinner tanked ships on the field but its certainly possible to make those sites even easier by cheesing on that part. Another problem of the design is that the payout is mostly fast and rdy cash instead of LPs which is only the icing on the cake for most of the incursion runners.
To summarize my ideas of an adjustment for incursions:
1. Shift rewards more to LPs (and probably do a 50/50 split for lp payout, 50 % for site completion, 50 % for incursion completion) 2. Make certain sites less susceptible to sig/speedtanking 3. Improve AI 4. Reduce the required fleetsizes for all sites by about 20- 30 % (would also reduce the speed at which sites could be blitzed due to having less dps) - problem is that it requires even more logi pilots which are already the bottleneck 5. reduce the speed at which the resistance penalties drop.
First the minimum reward is 30. Uroborus Forces Required: GÇó 30 - 50 pilots
Military Intelligence: Your primary objective is to locate the SanshaGÇÿs Nation flagship and destroy it. The destruction of this vessel will bring the local incursion to a halt.
Rewards: GÇó 90,000,000 ISK +ù ratio GÇó 20,000 CONCORD LP +ù ratio
I agree with the penalties being too quickly reduced. The influence gain is way too easy to beat down. But you are MASSIVELY nerfing incursions beyond the lvl 4's if you want to put more LP and less isk in incursions. The CONCORD LP market is already massively saturated by the millions and millions of LP that are being earned daily and sold for utter **** prices on the market. If you wanna boost that LP pay off the market is gonna crash completely.
The AI is already genius, I'd much rather see the wave triggers and compositions became much more random than currently, so you actually have to decide the primary based on most dangerous/easiest kill order, instead of just reading up on some walkthrough.
Reduce the required fleet size or do you mean reduce the max allowed fleet size? Why would anyone run with less people if they can run with more people and earn more isk quicker? If you're gonna reduce the max fleet size you are basically dumping on Incursions and the whole idea behind them; To improve and boost teamwork in EVE between random (or non-random) groups in PvE (PvP lowsec, nullsec).
quote CCP Spitfire
"Hello Im Blue,"
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Mesh Marillion
Fairlight Corp Rooks and Kings
0
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Posted - 2011.10.23 14:18:00 -
[104] - Quote
True on the Ouroburos fleet size. Still we did it more often than not with less than those 30 due to not having more pilots online and compensated that by having an alt armada sitting at the accelleration gate in t1 frigs and stuff. And its still very manageable. If you run it with 50, you're almost bruteforcing it, especially with a frontloaded shield repping logi gang where the bomber alpha is way less a problem.
I know that increasing LP vs reducing isk is a nerf. And i think its needed cause the isk faucet on incursions is pretty much the same as on sanctums which got the latter nerfed.
Regarding the AI: no, the AI is very predictable once you're staying in the site a bit longer. In fact there are a lot of ways to get almost snap aggro on the stuff if you exploit the way sleepers/sanshas prioritize their targets. I'm not going to tell you exactly how, but i think i dropped enough hints how to do it (and as far as i know there are incursion fleets that use the same principles in HQ sites already). Also reducing the fleet size (both max and minimum) by 20 % is not dumping on the idea, merely adjusting on the risk vs reward vs timesink side. Granted, its not a perfect solution (given that it would increase the competition for sites and logi pilots) but otoh you have to admit that risk vs reward isn't perfect atm given people farm vanguard and assault sites rather than hqs. If the balacing would be perfect it should be like HQ > Assaults > Vanguards simply because HQs require the highest amount of organization and effort. You will probably all agree that most players do it exactly the other way round, because vanguards are both easier to run and more profitable, only limited by the amount of competition. Which is the reason assaults are getting run at all (and thats only true in highsec, in lowsec incursions people only farm vanguards). So a reduction of a vanguard fleet to 8 persons would still need teamwork, actually more of it because sites get more difficult. Or people can agree that they are willing to take a small payout hit by running sites faster in a slightly larger group.
Don't get me wrong, i think that incursions are generally a good feature and should be rewarded higher than l4s in hs. Same applies to the comparison between nullsec anomalies and nullsec incursions. But even the often quoted Soundwave rather recently stated on Eve Vegas that the balancing between the different tiers of sites needs an adjustment. And at least in my personal experience as well as from talking to a lot of other people i feel that especially assault/vanguard running in highsec is a bit over the top atm, especially given the fact that all other ways of npcing have taken a hit (either by the flood of lps on the market or by nerfing nullsec anomalies). |
Carlos Aceveda
Ares Inc.
0
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Posted - 2011.10.23 14:56:00 -
[105] - Quote
To be honest I don't see the problem and I'm happy that the worth of LPs are declining due to the massive injection of LP through Incursions and Mission Blitzing.
The one's who suffer are the mission blitzers, who's primary source of income was the LP they were receiving while running their L4s as fast as possible. More LP in the system means oversupply of LP store items, which is pushing their price down, which leads to those items being used more often. I think that's great. The smart (aka patient) incursion runners are hoarding their concord LP anyway to buy player owned custom offices BPCs soon.
For people who are complaining that the Insignia's are getting to expensive, your solution is simple: Get your own. If that means you are crushing your empire standings, fair enough that's your price for it. If you are blitzing missions and that's all you want to do, fair enough. Destroy your Amarr standing if all you want to do is running for Vir Honn. Nothing broken in my eyes.
Win win situation. |
Goose99
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
80
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Posted - 2011.10.23 15:21:00 -
[106] - Quote
Carlos Aceveda wrote:To be honest I don't see the problem and I'm happy that the worth of LPs are declining due to the massive injection of LP through Incursions and Mission Blitzing.
The one's who suffer are the mission blitzers, who's primary source of income was the LP they were receiving while running their L4s as fast as possible. More LP in the system means oversupply of LP store items, which is pushing their price down, which leads to those items being used more often. I think that's great. The smart (aka patient) incursion runners are hoarding their concord LP anyway to buy player owned custom offices BPCs soon.
For people who are complaining that the Insignia's are getting to expensive, your solution is simple: Get your own. If that means you are crushing your empire standings, fair enough that's your price for it. If you are blitzing missions and that's all you want to do, fair enough. Destroy your Amarr standing if all you want to do is running for Vir Honn. Nothing broken in my eyes.
Win win situation.
Few people convert their concord LPs to normal for net loss. Even if all concord LP is converted, it wouldn't have made a dent. Incursions are limited to at most 3 constellations in highsec, with 3-4 vanguard systems, supporting at most 3 or 4 dozen people each running at the same time time. The amount of LP and isk gain is a drop in the ocean when compared to missioning or ratting. You might as well claim an ant can move a mountain. |
Ammzi
Imperial Guardians Blazing Angels Alliance
73
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Posted - 2011.10.23 15:35:00 -
[107] - Quote
Mesh Marillion wrote:True on the Ouroburos fleet size. Still we did it more often than not with less than those 30 due to not having more pilots online and compensated that by having an alt armada sitting at the accelleration gate in t1 frigs and stuff. And its still very manageable. If you run it with 50, you're almost bruteforcing it, especially with a frontloaded shield repping logi gang where the bomber alpha is way less a problem.
I know that increasing LP vs reducing isk is a nerf. And i think its needed cause the isk faucet on incursions is pretty much the same as on sanctums which got the latter nerfed.
Regarding the AI: no, the AI is very predictable once you're staying in the site a bit longer. In fact there are a lot of ways to get almost snap aggro on the stuff if you exploit the way sleepers/sanshas prioritize their targets. I'm not going to tell you exactly how, but i think i dropped enough hints how to do it (and as far as i know there are incursion fleets that use the same principles in HQ sites already). Also reducing the fleet size (both max and minimum) by 20 % is not dumping on the idea, merely adjusting on the risk vs reward vs timesink side. Granted, its not a perfect solution (given that it would increase the competition for sites and logi pilots) but otoh you have to admit that risk vs reward isn't perfect atm given people farm vanguard and assault sites rather than hqs. If the balacing would be perfect it should be like HQ > Assaults > Vanguards simply because HQs require the highest amount of organization and effort. You will probably all agree that most players do it exactly the other way round, because vanguards are both easier to run and more profitable, only limited by the amount of competition. Which is the reason assaults are getting run at all (and thats only true in highsec, in lowsec incursions people only farm vanguards). So a reduction of a vanguard fleet to 8 persons would still need teamwork, actually more of it because sites get more difficult. Or people can agree that they are willing to take a small payout hit by running sites faster in a slightly larger group.
Don't get me wrong, i think that incursions are generally a good feature and should be rewarded higher than l4s in hs. Same applies to the comparison between nullsec anomalies and nullsec incursions. But even the often quoted Soundwave rather recently stated on Eve Vegas that the balancing between the different tiers of sites needs an adjustment. And at least in my personal experience as well as from talking to a lot of other people i feel that especially assault/vanguard running in highsec is a bit over the top atm, especially given the fact that all other ways of npcing have taken a hit (either by the flood of lps on the market or by nerfing nullsec anomalies).
I like your argumentation, but again regarding the AI:
Well of course the AI is predictable in terms of primaries in PvP being somewhat predictable where e-war and logistics are usually primary. In the same way sleeper/Sansha AI primary the logistics, e-war fitted ships mostly. But that's it, I've flown logistics enough in headquarters to be able to predict the next pilot who is going to take aggro (very amusing thing to do as logi btw).
Well that is exactly the thing and as I have pointed out myself as well and quoted Soundwave on it from the fan fest videos. The popularity of the different tier sites need to be fixed, but you can not do it efficiently by nerfing vanguards, because you need to nerf them almost 50 % income before it makes any sense to move upwards for assaults and headquarters. We were extremely lucky the other day in highsec, but we managed to do 15 vanguard sites in 60 minutes. That's 150 m isk in one hour. Right now you'd be extremely lucky to earn 80 m isk/hour doing assaults, which basically means you'll have to do 4 sites in a row without pauses at 15 minutes per interval. While I can easily earn this doing vanguards.***
So to get vanguards down on the same level of assaults and headquarters you'd need to nerf them about 30-40 %, whether that is completion time or isk reward. That is an extreme nerf in my eyes and will still not solve the issue when you compare assaults and headquarters to lvl 4 missions. One of the ideas for incursions were to make them more profitable than level 4 missions, currently and realistically with a normal PUG headquarter fleet you'll earn around 50-60 m isk/hour... there's still not elitism in headquarters (maybe a bit in assaults) that people bring expensive high dps boats for them and especially because headquarter sites differ so much in site completion timer between the different sites. Headquarters and assaults earn you SLIGHTLY more than level 4 missions when comparing to a very good and efficient mission runner. Well that's just not good enough and if you want to have the most effective migration from vanguards to the upper site you need a larger incentive than system crowdness. You need an ISK incentive.
However nerfbatting vanguards by 30-40 % will simply make people dump and leave incursions. Whereas buffing the assaults and headquarter rewards you'll see a nice healthy migration to the higher sites with a real reward for the effort put into organization and similar.
*** Granted, assaults and headquarters do have a higher lp/isk ratio, but the LP market is so flooded right now anyway it doesn't make a large difference. quote CCP Spitfire
"Hello Im Blue,"
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Carlos Aceveda
Ares Inc.
0
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Posted - 2011.10.23 15:37:00 -
[108] - Quote
If flying missions for Vir Honn is the only thing they're doing in eve anyway, why would they bother going anywhere else in empire? |
Zrygthn Azurlm Zharous
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2011.10.23 16:42:00 -
[109] - Quote
Why would you bother doing null sec missions when you can make more doing high sec incursions without having to worry about get camped in station, probes, etc etc?
I was working out how much I can make in incursions today...
120mil in bounties per hour almost 14k lp per hour which converts at about 3k isk per LP (42mil) = 162mil per hour in the safety of high sec and the majority of it is in liquid isk...pretty ridiculous when you don't have to care about getting cynoned on, afk cloakers, roaming gangs, etc (all the usual null stuff) or hordes of pirates with a hard on for pvers (in low sec).
Ah well, I'll exploit it till they nerf it. |
Umamasyean
Aliastra Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2011.10.23 18:10:00 -
[110] - Quote
Whatever is happening, there definately is an imbalance in the amount of ISK is being farmed. All you have to do is look at the PLEX charts and you can see there definately has been some decent infaltion going on recently. |
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Umamasyean
Aliastra Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2011.10.23 18:11:00 -
[111] - Quote
mispost ignore |
Goose99
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
80
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Posted - 2011.10.23 19:18:00 -
[112] - Quote
Umamasyean wrote:Whatever is happening, there definately is an imbalance in the amount of ISK is being farmed. All you have to do is look at the PLEX charts and you can see there definately has been some decent infaltion going on recently.
Get a clue. That has to do with market speculation since CCP announces it will focus on fixes, plus spaceship content. The correlation matches to within the hour devblog is up, it's actually pretty remarkable. If you look at price history, there is actually no correlation of plex prices to Implementation of Incursion expansion.
Goose99 wrote:Highsec incursions are limited to at most 3 constellations, with 3-4 vanguard systems, supporting at most 3 or 4 dozen people each running at the same time time. The amount of LP and isk gain is a drop in the ocean when compared to missioning or sanctums/ratting. You might as well claim an ant can move a mountain.
Zrygthn Azurlm Zharous wrote:
The butthurt is unbearable. |
Ammzi
Imperial Guardians Blazing Angels Alliance
73
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Posted - 2011.10.23 19:34:00 -
[113] - Quote
Zrygthn Azurlm Zharous wrote:Why would you bother doing HIGH sec incursions when you can make more doing null sec incursions without having to worry about getting hot dropped?
I was working out how much I can make in NULLSEC incursions today...
171 mil in bounties per hour almost 13k lp per hour which converts at about 3k isk per LP (69mil) = 240mil per hour in the safety of my null sec alliance space and the majority of it is in liquid isk...pretty ridiculous when you don't have to care about getting cynoned on, afk cloakers, roaming gangs, etc (all the usual null stuff) or hordes of pirates with a hard on for pvers (in low sec).
Ah well, I'll exploit it till they nerf it.
Fixed your post. quote CCP Spitfire
"Hello Im Blue,"
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Zoe Alarhun
The Proactive Reappropriation Corporation
35
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Posted - 2011.10.23 20:36:00 -
[114] - Quote
Zrygthn Azurlm Zharous wrote:Why would you bother doing null sec missions when you can make more doing high sec incursions without having to worry about get camped in station, probes, etc etc?
I was working out how much I can make in incursions today...
120mil in bounties per hour almost 14k lp per hour which converts at about 3k isk per LP (42mil) = 162mil per hour in the safety of high sec and the majority of it is in liquid isk...pretty ridiculous when you don't have to care about getting cynoned on, afk cloakers, roaming gangs, etc (all the usual null stuff) or hordes of pirates with a hard on for pvers (in low sec).
Ah well, I'll exploit it till they nerf it.
And what exactly is this mythical item that sells for 3K lp ? |
Zrygthn Azurlm Zharous
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.23 20:49:00 -
[115] - Quote
Ammzi wrote:Zrygthn Azurlm Zharous wrote:Why would you bother doing HIGH sec incursions when you can make more doing null sec incursions without having to worry about getting hot dropped?
I was working out how much I can make in NULLSEC incursions today...
171 mil in bounties per hour almost 23k lp per hour which converts at about 3k isk per LP (69mil) = 240mil per hour in the safety of my null sec alliance space and the majority of it is in liquid isk...pretty ridiculous when you don't have to care about getting cynoned on, afk cloakers, roaming gangs, etc (all the usual null stuff) or hordes of pirates with a hard on for pvers (in low sec).
Ah well, I'll exploit it till they nerf it. Fixed your post.
if you include all the time you spend waiting for an incursion to show up in friendly space you make about 13k per hour...
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Zrygthn Azurlm Zharous
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2011.10.23 20:50:00 -
[116] - Quote
Zoe Alarhun wrote:Zrygthn Azurlm Zharous wrote:Why would you bother doing null sec missions when you can make more doing high sec incursions without having to worry about get camped in station, probes, etc etc?
I was working out how much I can make in incursions today...
120mil in bounties per hour almost 14k lp per hour which converts at about 3k isk per LP (42mil) = 162mil per hour in the safety of high sec and the majority of it is in liquid isk...pretty ridiculous when you don't have to care about getting cynoned on, afk cloakers, roaming gangs, etc (all the usual null stuff) or hordes of pirates with a hard on for pvers (in low sec).
Ah well, I'll exploit it till they nerf it. And what exactly is this mythical item that sells for 3K lp ?
why would I tell you? |
Goose99
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
80
|
Posted - 2011.10.23 20:56:00 -
[117] - Quote
Zrygthn Azurlm Zharous wrote:
Yes, you must wait for an incursion to show up deep within the blue ass of a large alliance, where you don't see hostiles for weeks on end. Lowsec and npc null is clearly too unsafe for whiny nullbear. |
Ammzi
Imperial Guardians Blazing Angels Alliance
73
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Posted - 2011.10.23 21:20:00 -
[118] - Quote
Zrygthn Azurlm Zharous wrote:
if you include all the time you spend waiting for an incursion to show up in friendly space you make about 13k per hour...
So let me get this straight... you don't wanna risk your ships doing incursions in nullsec that isn't blue to you? quote CCP Spitfire
"Hello Im Blue,"
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Zrygthn Azurlm Zharous
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2011.10.23 21:21:00 -
[119] - Quote
hmmm how am I a whiny nullbear when I live in high sec and do incursions there? I don't like pvp but I do like easy ~160mil an hour in high sec :D |
Zrygthn Azurlm Zharous
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2011.10.23 21:25:00 -
[120] - Quote
Ammzi wrote:Zrygthn Azurlm Zharous wrote:Why would you bother doing HIGH sec incursions when you can make more doing null sec incursions without having to worry about getting hot dropped?
I was working out how much I can make in NULLSEC incursions today...
171 mil in bounties per hour almost 23k lp per hour which converts at about 3k isk per LP (69mil) = 240mil per hour in the safety of my null sec alliance space and the majority of it is in liquid isk...pretty ridiculous when you don't have to care about getting cynoned on, afk cloakers, roaming gangs, etc (all the usual null stuff) or hordes of pirates with a hard on for pvers (in low sec).
Ah well, I'll exploit it till they nerf it. Fixed your post.
grow a brain then we can talk ok?
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