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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 9 post(s) |
Illest Insurrectionist
The Scope Gallente Federation
86
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Posted - 2013.05.04 06:48:00 -
[181] - Quote
Hagika wrote:
My 15$ a month and training, says i have a right to fly what ever i choose.
No. No it doesn't.
If you can't afford to fly it too bad. |
Hagika
LEGI0N
83
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Posted - 2013.05.04 06:54:00 -
[182] - Quote
Illest Insurrectionist wrote:Hagika wrote:
My 15$ a month and training, says i have a right to fly what ever i choose.
No. No it doesn't. If you can't afford to fly it too bad.
Well for those who pay to play, we can also buy plex to afford to buy it.
Though at this point, with the current changes and many of them less than spectacular. Buying plex is not in my future. I just reactivated my accounts a month ago and now, I feel like letting it lapse again. |
Illest Insurrectionist
The Scope Gallente Federation
86
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Posted - 2013.05.04 07:02:00 -
[183] - Quote
Hagika wrote:Illest Insurrectionist wrote:Hagika wrote:
My 15$ a month and training, says i have a right to fly what ever i choose.
No. No it doesn't. If you can't afford to fly it too bad. Well for those who pay to play, we can also buy plex to afford to buy it. Though at this point, with the current changes and many of them less than spectacular. Buying plex is not in my future. I just reactivated my accounts a month ago and now, I feel like letting it lapse again.
Can I have your stuff? |
Naomi Knight
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
352
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Posted - 2013.05.04 07:05:00 -
[184] - Quote
Illest Insurrectionist wrote: Can I have your stuff?
By the way, these "if you don't do what i want, i'll quit" posts aren't amusing now, weren't amusing in the past and won't be amusing in the future.
they arent any worse than the "Can I have your stuff?" posts
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Morrigan LeSante
The Lost and Forgotten Troopers
262
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Posted - 2013.05.04 07:10:00 -
[185] - Quote
Still unclear as to what point or purpose this serves. |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
3306
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Posted - 2013.05.04 07:31:00 -
[186] - Quote
It's funny that this post is making so many people upset while it almost literally made me start jumping for joy.
Anyway, I'm looking forward to the new Mini-Bhaal, Supermax-Caracal, and other new battleships (Scorpion kind of gets the short end of the stick, but it was already really good at what it did). This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
Aducat Ragnarson
Cult of the Black Goat Dark Taboo
121
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Posted - 2013.05.04 07:38:00 -
[187] - Quote
ITT:
CCP: 'BS's will get an increase in buildcost of approximately 40mil isk'
Former T1 BS 2 days ago: 90-130mil
Playerbase: 'Waaaaaah! My [former T1 BS] will cost 250million!'
90 to 130mil, 40mil increase -> 250mil
Solid mathskills... |
Josilin du Guesclin
University of Caille Gallente Federation
24
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Posted - 2013.05.04 07:39:00 -
[188] - Quote
Hagika wrote:With Battleships becoming and ever so larger and larger isk sink for their actual value, smaller hulls will just become even more popular.
As it sits, battleships are becoming too costly for their actual benefit on the battlefield when smaller hulls bring almost as great of firepower and better mobility for less the cost.
As I see it the problem with battleships is a little different from this - due to the weapon systems one mounts on a BS and their lack of agility battleships are vulnerable to being killed, or at least tackled, neuted, and jammed out, by ships much smaller than themselves that they cannot themselves kill. A frigate or cruiser that tackles a BC generally has to have help come PDQ, or it's dead and the BC escapes, but a BS often simply can't do meaningful damage to a frigate or cruiser tackle (especially if it's a shield BS, because it'll lack the mid slots for good tackle of its own, but that's a different rant).
As a result, the BS is very much a fleet ship in PVP, and is incredibly vulnerable on its own in a way smaller ships are not. For them to have a vast jump in cost as well seems perhaps a bit much.
I'm sure the BS numbers will not drop much with this cost increase, for a couple of reasons. Firstly, it won't impact much on the Rokh and the Mael (or may make them cheaper), both popular fleet ships. Secondly, they'll remain the best 'Low SP' damage projector for brawling fleets where support cruisers/frigate will be doing the tackling, etc.
It might hurt those who like soloing sites and missions, though - battleships are often the choice before one moves on to T3s, Marauders, etc., and if battleships cost more getting them shot up hurts more, and they start looking like something you don't actually want to fly - stay on your Drake until you can step up to something that's really ISK/hour efficient.
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Josilin du Guesclin
University of Caille Gallente Federation
24
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Posted - 2013.05.04 07:45:00 -
[189] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote: thankfully expecting that I spent all my money on armageddons and typhoons to resell later...
Me too.
After this, I expect that certain faction battleships (not the Typhoon FI - the new 'phoon is nearly as good overall and much better at killing sub-BS enemies) will starting looking pretty good - not much more expensive than the new prices, and for some ships a bit jump in effectiveness.
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Naomi Knight
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
352
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Posted - 2013.05.04 08:02:00 -
[190] - Quote
Aducat Ragnarson wrote:ITT:
CCP: 'BS's will get an increase in buildcost of approximately 40mil isk'
Former T1 BS 2 days ago: 90-130mil
Playerbase: 'Waaaaaah! My [former T1 BS] will cost 250million!'
90 to 130mil, 40mil increase -> 250mil
Solid mathskills... 40m avarage and they said the tier3 wont increase much or at all --> probably current tier 1 will be increased by 60-80m and tier 2 30-50m |
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Smabs
Higher Than Everest Black Legion.
80
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Posted - 2013.05.04 08:03:00 -
[191] - Quote
Quote:Former T1 BS 2 days ago: 90-130mil
Playerbase: 'Waaaaaah! My [former T1 BS] will cost 250million!'
90 to 130mil, 40mil increase -> 250mil
Solid mathskills...
Factoring in the rigs and guns you'd be looking at well over 200mil.
Quote:As I see it the problem with battleships is a little different from this - due to the weapon systems one mounts on a BS and their lack of agility battleships are vulnerable to being killed, or at least tackled, neuted, and jammed out, by ships much smaller than themselves that they cannot themselves kill.
On paper I think the new BS could do very well as lightly tanked, ranged damage in small gangs. The apoc and mega seem like they could do well in that role, since there's a tracking bonus and their speed is reasonably high. However with the price being so high they seem kinda inferior to tier 3 battlecruisers.
Maybe people will work out some fleet fits, but I just can't see the use of tier 1 and 2 battleships increasing much, even though you rarely see them around now (outside of some fleets). |
Bigg Gun
Flying Bags Inc. Bulgarian Space Federation
5
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Posted - 2013.05.04 08:08:00 -
[192] - Quote
Hagika wrote:[quote=Illest Insurrectionist]
Because every Joe Schmoe has a right to jump from his Pinto to a Flashy 300,000 dollar 600 horsepower Ferrari.
It may not be smart and he will more than likely crash it, but its his right to do it. Same rule applies here. They may not be ready for a BS, but when they lose it, they gain experience on why not they should not be flying it.
I think your comparison is all wrong. BS are not a shiny ferrari they're more like a truck or an SUV. And strangely enough for PVE a BS with lvl 2 and 3 large skills is better than a BC with lvl 4 and 5 skills. In fact the new skill trees will make it even easier for folks to get into a BS. Just ... they won't be able to afford one. For pvp it's a whole different story but as I said before you don't see that many BS, in smaller gangs anyway, now you won't see any. Thus depraving you of the so desired of you juicy kills.
As far as performance increase goes compare the caldari line: DPS goes : raven, rokh, Naga(if you don't consider the drones of the rokh) , with the naga being able to run from unpleasant situations with much higher chance of success. |
Porkgazam Wankers
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2013.05.04 08:26:00 -
[193] - Quote
Thanks CCP, for making it more difficult for me and my fellow newbie brethren to finally start making some decent ISK by running level4 missions or incursions. Lest you forget, not all of us in EVE are sucking off those fat, moon goo, null sec, teets. Then again, I suppose, that is the point in this battleship price gouge, and that is for all of us filthy noobs to BUY MORE PLEX!. |
Roime
Shiva Furnace
2663
|
Posted - 2013.05.04 08:43:00 -
[194] - Quote
Disclaimer: I'm loaded and bought out all the old price BSes from across two regions already month ago
Fact: I won't be flying tier 1 or 2 battleships after Odyssey, their poor performance won't justify the huge ISK loss on the killboard
BS tiericide is bad and doesn't make the battleships worthwhile, and making them cost more is just the final nail in the coffin.
Why Domi over Ishtar? Why Mega over Talos?
Right, there are no reasons.
I hope I can at least sell my stockpiles.
-á- All I really wanted was to build a castle among the stars - |
marVLs
131
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Posted - 2013.05.04 08:50:00 -
[195] - Quote
BS's price should be big, they're HS end game ships in terms of size, and 2weeks chars should not be able to fly them - here CCP have right and it's good move
...but problem is in BS itself, they're weak and bad compared to BC. Talking about small upgrade for big cost and comparing pirate BS's to t1 BS's is bad in this case.
I'm for boosting BS's costs but boost also BS's tanks and med slots (stupid that they have some cool modules only for them but noone fit them cause lack of slots...) |
Sabriz Adoudel
AWOXalypse
305
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Posted - 2013.05.04 08:51:00 -
[196] - Quote
Aducat Ragnarson wrote:ITT:
CCP: 'BS's will get an increase in buildcost of approximately 40mil isk'
Former T1 BS 2 days ago: 90-130mil
Playerbase: 'Waaaaaah! My [former T1 BS] will cost 250million!'
90 to 130mil, 40mil increase -> 250mil
Solid mathskills...
Given the Hyperion hull is not too far behind 250m at the moment, being worried that a Megathron or Dominix might be >200m for the hull isn't unfounded. AWOXalypse is coming! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2898431 Buy shares: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=226618 An enemy is a friend you stab in the front. |
Josilin du Guesclin
University of Caille Gallente Federation
24
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Posted - 2013.05.04 09:21:00 -
[197] - Quote
Emu Meo wrote: At the moment the cost of a damage control to protect a capital ship is the same as the cost to protect a t1 frigate. I think everyone would agree that isn't right.
Given the huge utility and wide range of uses Frigates have (and Cruisers even more so), paying a largish sum if you want the best stuff for one seems fine (and the DCU II is a bad example of something expensive to fit onto the Frigate - they are dirt cheap). Also, we already have this effect, because people are willing to put 200M+ ISK modules onto capitals, while they won't put them on Frigates (generally).
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Hakan MacTrew
Caledonian Light Industries Sick N' Twisted
487
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Posted - 2013.05.04 09:49:00 -
[198] - Quote
Ok, so at the 'current' price of minerals, BS's are going to cost about 200m - 240m. Please note the emphasis on the word 'current'. With the mineral rebalance, I can see the price of low ends like tritanium and pyerite halving. I expect the 'actual' value within a month or two of Odyssey being released to be more like 150m - 170m. Given the amount of ships that will flood the market around that time, I would go as far as to say that estimate may be too conservative.
I really don't see what everyones problem is. MODULAR DRONES
MORE ORE SHIPS |
Melodie Gore
LunarChicks
0
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Posted - 2013.05.04 09:52:00 -
[199] - Quote
A more interesting question is whether or not insurance will be balanced out so the loss of a BS after the next expansion (after insurance) is not much worse than it is now.
Anyone knows? |
Warde Guildencrantz
TunDraGon Drunk 'n' Disorderly
688
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Posted - 2013.05.04 09:55:00 -
[200] - Quote
CCP Rise,
with the complaining-fest this has turned into, i would say you should cite the ballpark full cost of buying new BSes for tier 1 and 2 BSes after these changes, so people can see if they are really making the right assumptions by assuming the first raven they buy costs 230mil
How will this make sense? If you raise the prices on everything faction BSes like the navy typhoon will cost the same as a normal typhoon, pretty stupid if you ask me. Considering how some tier 1 or 2 ships haven't even changed much why would you increase the price by much? |
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
9090
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Posted - 2013.05.04 10:01:00 -
[201] - Quote
Roime wrote:
Fact: I won't be flying tier 1 or 2 battleships after Odyssey, their poor performance won't justify the huge ISK loss on the killboard
Do you honestly let "killboard stats" dictate your playstyle?
Really?
wow
1 Kings 12:11
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Naomi Knight
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
352
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Posted - 2013.05.04 10:03:00 -
[202] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Roime wrote:
Fact: I won't be flying tier 1 or 2 battleships after Odyssey, their poor performance won't justify the huge ISK loss on the killboard
Do you honestly let "killboard stats" dictate your playstyle? Really?wow yup most people do that |
Roime
Shiva Furnace
2663
|
Posted - 2013.05.04 10:11:00 -
[203] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Roime wrote:
Fact: I won't be flying tier 1 or 2 battleships after Odyssey, their poor performance won't justify the huge ISK loss on the killboard
Do you honestly let "killboard stats" dictate your playstyle? Really?wow
What else? ISK in itself is meaningless, it's an endless resource that literally grows in the trees in this game. The only value ISK holds is on the killboard.
When you fly solo and small gang you will lose ships, and the cost of those ships has a big effect on your efficiency, especially when you are not pulling in hundreds of kills every month.
Anyway, the point is about value for money, how you value the money is not important- battleships don't have properties that would justify their value. Cheaper or same price ships are simply better.
-á- All I really wanted was to build a castle among the stars - |
Super spikinator
Hegemonous Conscripts Hegemonous Pandorum
159
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Posted - 2013.05.04 10:14:00 -
[204] - Quote
Aducat Ragnarson wrote:ITT:
CCP: 'BS's will get an increase in buildcost of approximately 40mil isk'
Former T1 BS 2 days ago: 90-130mil
Playerbase: 'Waaaaaah! My [former T1 BS] will cost 250million!'
90 to 130mil, 40mil increase -> 250mil
Solid mathskills...
40 million is what CCP is projecting. either based on mineral prices + mark up or possibly old trends. In addition I think this may be an estimate of what they will settle on, how long the market takes to settle on a price is a different matter. |
Josilin du Guesclin
University of Caille Gallente Federation
24
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Posted - 2013.05.04 10:18:00 -
[205] - Quote
Warde Guildencrantz wrote: How will this make sense? If you raise the prices on everything faction BSes like the navy typhoon will cost the same as a normal typhoon, pretty stupid if you ask me. Considering how some tier 1 or 2 ships haven't even changed much why would you increase the price by much?
A Typhoon costing the same as a Typhoon FI isn't that unreasonable - the new Typhoon is going to be a beast despite Torpedoes being fairly horrible. |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
3308
|
Posted - 2013.05.04 12:01:00 -
[206] - Quote
Aducat Ragnarson wrote:ITT:
CCP: 'BS's will get an increase in buildcost of approximately 40mil isk'
Former T1 BS 2 days ago: 90-130mil
Playerbase: 'Waaaaaah! My [former T1 BS] will cost 250million!'
90 to 130mil, 40mil increase -> 250mil
Solid mathskills...
Speaking of....
40m average increase.
[backoftheenvelope] Ignore races, and there are 3 Battleships.
T1: 100m becomes 100m+x T2: 150m becomes 150m+y T3: 240m becomes 240m+z
40m average increase = (x+y+z)/3
Assume z is 0. Because the post says t3s will stay about the same.
40=(x+y+0)/3
x+y=120
Now, for t1 BS to only go up by 40m, t2 would have to increase by 80m. I find that unlikely. I find it more likely that t1 increase by ~80m and t2 by ~40m. [/backoftheenvelope]
So, roundabouts 200m per tier 1 or 2 battleship and 240m for tier 3s. Which is still a significant cost savings if you can run attack rather than combat (or combat rather than attack, I can't keep them straight). This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
coeathal vega
Reikoku The Retirement Club
1
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Posted - 2013.05.04 12:08:00 -
[207] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote: We feel confident that we have that plan, and while we do appreciate feedback (as always), this proposal is very likely the way we will be proceeding at release.
So , in other words, "we don't care what you think, but go ahead and post anyway. We won't change our mind".
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CCP Rise
C C P C C P Alliance
680
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Posted - 2013.05.04 12:16:00 -
[208] - Quote
Hey guys - will try to get caught up on this today...
Quote:So , in other words, "we don't care what you think, but go ahead and post anyway. We won't change our mind".
What I mean by this is more that - we had a good idea of what you would think, because many people internally felt the same way. We spent a lot of time talking with those people and trying to figure out if there was a different solution that fit our goals and also made them more comfortable. This is where we arrived. |
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Jonas Sukarala
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
137
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Posted - 2013.05.04 12:18:00 -
[209] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Hey guys - will try to get caught up on this today... Quote:So , in other words, "we don't care what you think, but go ahead and post anyway. We won't change our mind". What I mean by this is more that - we had a good idea of what you would think, because many people internally felt the same way. We spent a lot of time talking with those people and trying to figure out if there was a different solution that fit our goals and also made them more comfortable. This is where we arrived.
What so internally all the devs also felt the battleships weren't worth the increase too? 'Tech3 ships need to be put down, like a rabid dog drooling everywhere in the house, they are out of line' CCP Ytterbium Nerf missile range into place..... where is the TD missile change?-á ,...projectiles should use capacitor. |
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CCP Rise
C C P C C P Alliance
680
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Posted - 2013.05.04 12:25:00 -
[210] - Quote
No, but SOME devs were concerned that it was going to be too hard on players with less income.
As a result we spent quite a bit of time talking about how quickly we wanted BS to be accessible, and we also looked into metrics around player income in as much detail as possible. It was easy to establish that people simply have higher income than they used to across all character ages. With that information, everyone agreed this was the best way to move forward. |
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