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Tuxford	Posted - 2005.10.21 09:15:00 - [1] Destroyers Now all get 50% bonus to optimal range of small turrets. Max targetting range increased by 20% resulting in Coercer - 30km Cormorant - 36km Catalyst - 33km Thrasher - 27km Battlecruiser Mostly did some grid and cpu adjustments with Battlecruisers. Prophecy grid - 1300MW CPU - 350tf Ferox grid - 1000MW CPU - 475 Brutix grid - 1150 CPU - 425 Armor repair bonus increased to 7.5% per level Cyclone grid - 1210 CPU - 425 Shield boost bonus increased to 7.5% per level Added a med slot Nothing much changed since the last thread, I bolded the most recent changes. Lots of things you want to discuss I guess. Try to keep it constructive. _______________


Tuxford	Posted - 2005.10.21 09:15:00 - [2] Stats and bonuses might change before this hit TQ so give your input here Frigates Mining Forgot to tell you that all mining frigates get a 5% bonus to cargo per level and 20% bonus to mining yield per level. Tormentor Gets an extra low slot CPU output increased to 140tf Bantam Gets an extra low slot CPU output increased to 150tf Navitas Gets an extra med slot CPU output increased to 150tf Burst Gets an extra med slot CPU output increased to 140tf Tackling Executioner Max velocity increased to 390m/s Low slot changed to a med slot Condor New mass 1 150 000 kg Poweroutput increased to 25MW High slot added Max velocity increased to 375m/s Turret hardpoint changed to launcher hardpoint Existing bonuses replaced with 5% missile kinetic damage per level and 10% missile velocity per level Atron New Mass 1 100 000 kg Max velocity increased to 380m/s Targetting range bonus replaced with 10% bonus to small hybrids falloff per level Slasher Max velocity increased to 410m/s Max velocity bonus replaced with 5% projectile damage per level Scout All the Scout frigates get one of their bonuses replaced with 5% bonus to scan probe duration. Heron CPU output increased to 250tf Launcher slot added Targetting range bonus replaced with scout bonus Imicus CPU output increased to 230tf Small hybrid damage bonus replaced with scout bonus Probe CPU output increased to 220tf Max velocity increased to 300m/s Max velocity bonus replaced with scout bonus EWAR I haven't really changed these ones, their bonuses already make them pretty unique. Griffin ECM range bonus changed to 10% to ECM cap need Vigil Max velocity increased to 320m/sec Max velocity bonus replaced with 5% small projectile damage bonus per level _______________


Tuxford	Posted - 2005.10.21 09:15:00 - [3] Assault The missile frigates, Inquisitor, Kestrel and Breacher have all lost their rate of fire bonus. Instead they get 5% damage per level to all missile damage types except for their race specific damage type where they get 10% per level. Punisher Poweroutput increased to 45MW CPU output decreased to 115tf Capacitor capacity increased to 340 Cap recharge bonus replaced with 5% armor resistance per level Merlin Gets an extra med slot CPU output increased to 175tf Capacitor Capacity increased to 280 Shield hitpoint bonus replaced with 5% shield resistance per level Tristan Poweroutput increased ot 38MW Max velocity increased to 260m/s Capacitor capacity increased to 280 Added a launchers hardpoint Rifter Poweroutput increased to 37MW Max velocity increased to 320m/s Max velocity bonus replaced with 5% tracking per level Added a low slot Inquisitor Poweroutput increased to 32MW High slot added Max velocity increased to 270m/s Mass reduced to 1 500 000 kg Kestrel Max Velocity increased to 260m/s CPU output increased to 150tf _______________


Tuxford	Posted - 2005.10.21 09:15:00 - [4] Cruisers Mining/Logistic Kind of a combined class of logistic and industrial ships. In addition to their ship bonuses they get a static 500% bonus to logistic range. Augoror 10% bonus to capacitor need of Energy Transfer Arrays 10% armor per level Osprey 10% bonus to capacitor need of Shield Transporters 20% bonus to mining yield Exequror 10% bonus to capacitor need of Remote Armor Repair Systems 10% bonus to cargo capacity per level Scythe 3.5% bonus to tracking links 20% bonus to mining yield EWAR The EWAR cruisers get a bonus to Arbitrator Low slot changed to a med slot Medium energy weapon cap reduction bonus replaced with 5% bonus to tracking disruptors efficiency per level Blackbird Celestis High slot changed to a med slot Bellicose Low slot changed to a med slot Max velocity bonus replaced with 7.5% bonus to target painter effect per level Assault Maller Poweroutput increased to 900MW CPU output decreased to 270tf Moa Shield boost bonus changed to 5% shield resists per level CPU output increased to 360tf Poweroutput increased to 780MW Thorax Dronebay decreased to 100m^3 Poweroutput increased to 820MW Rupture Poweroutput increased to 860MW CPU output increased to 325tf Omen Launcher hardpoint added Poweroutput increased to 730MW CPU output decreased to 250tf Caracal Poweroutput decreased to 530MW CPU output increased to 350tf Added med slot Vexor Poweroutput increased to 675MW CPU output decreased to 270tf Stabber Poweroutput increased to 700MW Elite Ships Eagle Shield boost bonus changed to 5% bonus to shield resistance p. level _______________

SengH	Posted - 2005.10.21 09:16:00 - [5] errh whats the 234 for?
Emno	Posted - 2005.10.21 09:17:00 - [6] Edited by: Emno on 21/10/2005 09:19:33 Edited by: Emno on 21/10/2005 09:17:21 Edited by: Emno on 21/10/2005 09:17:00 Originally by: SengH errh whats the 234 for? think they are gone now edit: still see 4 :} editedit: omg 4 gone \o/ editeditedit: Executioner not gimped \o/
SengH	Posted - 2005.10.21 09:18:00 - [7] Edited by: SengH on 21/10/2005 09:18:02 Tuxford what about the promised leadership changes to the BCs? any update on that?

Tuxford	Posted - 2005.10.21 09:20:00 - [8] Originally by: SengH Edited by: SengH on 21/10/2005 09:18:02 Tuxford what about the promised leadership changes to the BCs? any update on that? Sorry that must have slipped by me. What exactly are you referring to? _______________

SengH	Posted - 2005.10.21 09:25:00 - [9] Edited by: SengH on 21/10/2005 09:27:57 From in development Tech 2 Battlecruisers The Battlecruiser will probably be the Command cruisers that have extensive leadership abilities. We'll probably improve the leadership abilites of the current Battlecruisers at the same time. Oh, and of course combat stuff in them too. Not sure if this is included with the current mk2 project. The problem is in its current state, the leadership modules with the command processors highly favor armor tanked ships. Although it will eat your CPU to fit a full rack of gang mods, + command processors(current stats). For some reason I feel the leadership role of the BCs are being neglected during this rebalancing. Edit: ie. what is the design goal of these ships in leadership mode, does CCP want them to be sitting at a safespot? or with the fleet? if so, with both mids and his occuped by most of these modules, the brutix and prophecy gain huge advantages in using them during moving. However the cyclone and the ferox due to their almost balanced mids/hi's with their current cpu cannot fit the max # of leadership mods that their mid slots allow, but any number that they fit will gimp their tanking considerably.
Gunsnroses	Posted - 2005.10.21 09:29:00 - [10] I have a question, Will the changes to t1 hulls, such as launcher hard point for omen, carry over to its t2 brother the zealot?

Tuxford	Posted - 2005.10.21 09:29:00 - [11] Yeah that will probably be done alongside the t2 battlecruiesers. _______________

SengH	Posted - 2005.10.21 09:32:00 - [12] Edited by: SengH on 21/10/2005 09:32:50 tuxford you might have missed my edit, but please take a look at it... The fact is using the leadership ability of the BC gimps cyclones(more the cyclone) and feroxes shield bonus, but the prophecy and brutix can still use their armor bonuses to full effect. Seems kinda misplaced to me.
Gunsnroses	Posted - 2005.10.21 09:34:00 - [13] Yeah i always thought gang modules should A be High slot. Or B, be the slot that corresponds to there bonus.
Longasc	Posted - 2005.10.21 09:35:00 - [14] I like the changes to the Mining Frigates and the added med slot to the Executioner most. I think many will just love the changes to the Executioner. :)

Tuxford	Posted - 2005.10.21 09:35:00 - [15] Originally by: Gunsnroses Edited by: Gunsnroses on 21/10/2005 09:31:05 I have a question, Will the changes to t1 hulls, such as launcher hard point for omen, carry over to its t2 brother the zealot? PS. What does this mean? In addition to their ship bonuses they get a static 500% bonus to logistic range. The tech 2 ships are based on their tech 1 counterpart but they aren't really tech 1 plus more as you can see looking at the sacrilege. It has the same number of slots as a maller but a completely different layout. In addition to their ship bonuses they get a static 500% bonus to logistic range. It means that if you fit a logistic module that that ship gets bonuses to such as shield transporter on an Osprey you get a 500% bonus to shield transporter range. That bonus is not dependant on skill. _______________

Gunsnroses	Posted - 2005.10.21 09:37:00 - [16] Originally by: Tuxford Originally by: Gunsnroses Edited by: Gunsnroses on 21/10/2005 09:31:05 I have a question, Will the changes to t1 hulls, such as launcher hard point for omen, carry over to its t2 brother the zealot? PS. What does this mean? In addition to their ship bonuses they get a static 500% bonus to logistic range. The tech 2 ships are based on their tech 1 counterpart but they aren't really tech 1 plus more as you can see looking at the sacrilege. It has the same number of slots as a maller but a completely different layout. In addition to their ship bonuses they get a static 500% bonus to logistic range. It means that if you fit a logistic module that that ship gets bonuses to such as shield transporter on an Osprey you get a 500% bonus to shield transporter range. That bonus is not dependant on skill. Thanks for the quick reply, and Doah! at maller/sac your right...... Though that was a hint, Zealot launcher slot 4tw. Or at least some drone space, 1 int can kill you :)
DarK	Posted - 2005.10.21 09:39:00 - [17] Tux, good changes so far. 2 things though: Any chance on the Moa getting it's slot layout changed from 6/4/4 to 6/5/3 to allow for better tank? Also, now that the Ferox has the same low/med layout as Ferox, would it be possible to get another medslot on it some how ?
Joerd Toastius	Posted - 2005.10.21 10:23:00 - [18] Kinda dropped out of the last thread about page 20, so sorry if this is a rehash but: Like the changes to the "minilog" classes (if indeed there were changes - I remember the bonuses being all logistics last time I looked), makes more sense and the standing range bonus is a good addition. May even get used occasionally. I'm still, however, unconvinced that non-covops ships will ever be used much with scan probes. Nice changes on tacklers and destroyers too. Still unconvinced that a missile slot on the Omen is even relevant (the spare high's for an SB), but I guess proliferation of missiles makes the Khanid T2s slightly more relevant.
General Griefus	Posted - 2005.10.21 10:24:00 - [19] Originally by: Elve Sorrow Why do the Amarr not have an EWAR frigate? Or the Gallente for that matter. And where'd the Amarr Scout go? And i hate to break it to you Tuxford, but 2 medslots is only barely 'tackler'. It would still never be used because it's just outclassed by way too many ships. Needs a third medslot. well first off we do have a E-war ship he seems to have forgoten it though, we dont have a scout as one was never put in game for us though. dont forget he gave the exe an extra med slot, but exchanged one of its 3 low slots, it now is only 2,2,2 in slot layout, exactly the same as the atron. for another low it would end up being 2,3,1 which would make it pretty crap in terms of tackling as its lost its flexibility it had in its low slots for the ability to hold a target implace temporarily, that 1 low slot wouldn't give it much in the way of survivability.

Tuxford	Posted - 2005.10.21 10:24:00 - [20] Originally by: Elve Sorrow Why do the Amarr not have an EWAR frigate? Or the Gallente for that matter. And where'd the Amarr Scout go? And i hate to break it to you Tuxford, but 2 medslots is only barely 'tackler'. It would still never be used because it's just outclassed by way too many ships. Needs a third medslot. yeah well I guess "tackler" isn't the right name for it. It's more just of a fast combat frigate. And lets not get nuts on boosting the fast frigates shall we they still cost only about 50k. I don't want to make them to specialized either as that would push new players away from using it. _______________

Chinsor	Posted - 2005.10.21 10:25:00 - [21] projectile damage bonus to the vigil instead of speed seems fairly useless, its almost never used for anything else other than tackling in combat, if you wanted projectile damage you'd use a rifter
Reatu Krentor	Posted - 2005.10.21 10:25:00 - [22] Originally by: Elve Sorrow Why do the Amarr not have an EWAR frigate? Or the Gallente for that matter. And where'd the Amarr Scout go? And i hate to break it to you Tuxford, but 2 medslots is only barely 'tackler'. It would still never be used because it's just outclassed by way too many ships. Needs a third medslot. Amarr and gallente have Ewar frigs, the Crucifier and the maulus , Amarr scout turned into mining frigate I think. And the T1 tackler with 2 med slots is ok I think, they'd not really get outclassed by any other T1 frigate in speed, just 1 T1 tackler frig with a scrambler and 1 T1 assault frig with a webber would make a nice team I think(if it weren't for warp core stabs ), anyway my point is Eve is all about working together, rarely are captains able to do everything on their own. ------------------------------------------ The ammatar are not the enemy, they are the smoke and mirrors of the amarr.
Elve Sorrow	Posted - 2005.10.21 10:28:00 - [23] Originally by: Tuxford yeah well I guess "tackler" isn't the right name for it. It's more just of a fast combat frigate. And lets not get nuts on boosting the fast frigates shall we they still cost only about 50k. I don't want to make them to specialized either as that would push new players away from using it. Right. Personally for me i wont be flying these anyway. If i want to tackle ill take a Stiletto, its just that simple. People will always go for the best ship for the job, and for tech1 tacklers thatll still be the Vigil. Except for a few PIE nutcases, noone will use the Executioner. So what about the other two questions? Where's the EWAR and Scout frigates?

Tuxford	Posted - 2005.10.21 10:31:00 - [24] Originally by: Elve Sorrow Originally by: Tuxford yeah well I guess "tackler" isn't the right name for it. It's more just of a fast combat frigate. And lets not get nuts on boosting the fast frigates shall we they still cost only about 50k. I don't want to make them to specialized either as that would push new players away from using it. Right. Personally for me i wont be flying these anyway. If i want to tackle ill take a Stiletto, its just that simple. People will always go for the best ship for the job, and for tech1 tacklers thatll still be the Vigil. Except for a few PIE nutcases, noone will use the Executioner. So what about the other two questions? Where's the EWAR and Scout frigates? The ewar is still there, they just haven't been changed. Amarr always have had one less frigate then the other races, I don't really know why. That frigate just happened to be the scout frigate, maybe it was supposed to be the magnate but that's a way to cool ship to be just a mere normal frigate _______________

General Griefus	Posted - 2005.10.21 10:32:00 - [25] Edited by: General Griefus on 21/10/2005 10:33:01 Originally by: Elve Sorrow Originally by: Tuxford yeah well I guess "tackler" isn't the right name for it. It's more just of a fast combat frigate. And lets not get nuts on boosting the fast frigates shall we they still cost only about 50k. I don't want to make them to specialized either as that would push new players away from using it. Right. Personally for me i wont be flying these anyway. If i want to tackle ill take a Stiletto, its just that simple. People will always go for the best ship for the job, and for tech1 tacklers thatll still be the Vigil. Except for a few PIE nutcases, noone will use the Executioner. So what about the other two questions? Where's the EWAR and Scout frigates? To a point again you must take note the amarr have always had 1 less frig than all the other races, that was the scout frig. and the amarr and gallente E-war frigs are pretty good so i doubt they'll need any chaging. EDIT: damn it tux typing faster
Elve Sorrow	Posted - 2005.10.21 10:37:00 - [26] I know they have a Frigate less. It's been one of my pet annoyances since retail. Devs always refuse to answer why we dont have the last frigate. But it's because Amarr were introduced as an unfinished race at retail. Explains the lack of models for the sixth frigate, and for the second industrial.
Kcel Chim	Posted - 2005.10.21 10:40:00 - [27] Edited by: Kcel Chim on 21/10/2005 10:40:59 Originally by: Tuxford It's actually an EWAR frig not a tackler. Although it is still imo best tackling t1 frig in game, although Incursus comes pretty close. Dont you think its ironic that 3 assaultfrigs are the best tacklers in the game ? ;) btw dont forget the merlin after your changes, 4 small nos, mwd, 2 -2 scrams, web, Micro Aux, caprelay dead on tackler ;) or switch 1 nos / mirco for a caprelay/nanofiber and a 125mm AC ;)
Silenne Otsaku	Posted - 2005.10.21 10:43:00 - [28] executionner, fine as it is now. And for just give info, i'm an amarr so i ONLY fly amar ship so i don't fly vigil, i don't fly other race ship ... need to do more test for the Moa, hop increase PG will be enough .... but all the other cruiser get increase so .. dunno, maybe a low for a med can help ?
Krayl	Posted - 2005.10.21 10:51:00 - [29] Originally by: elFarto Is the Caracal going to get a damage bonus like the new Kessie? 10% to kinetic damage and 5% to the others? Regards elFarto Same question but with s/Caracal/Cerberus/ Also: 10% flight time bonus is useless. Sure it gives more range but this firstly just means more time for opponent to warp and secondly is way over lock range anyway.
Khaldorn Murino	Posted - 2005.10.21 10:54:00 - [30] Edited by: Khaldorn Murino on 21/10/2005 10:54:15 * OOPS * - Just a simple warrior.

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