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Skunk Gracklaw
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
212
   |
Posted - 2011.10.20 16:58:00 -
[61] - Quote
Avon wrote:War Kitten wrote:Taxtro Grave wrote:I've been playing for over 6 years now, and I have yet to vote in the CSM. It's just like the high school prom's King and Queen. Only the most popular win, not who is actually good for the job.
Disgusting. You DO realize that that is exactly how a democratic election process works, right? Only the most popular win? Doesn't make it the best system though, does it? When my flight is landing I am far happier with the trained and experienced pilot making the choices, rather than the passengers voting for the most attractive trolly dolly to have a go.
Because serving on the CSM is just like flying an airplane.
You're dumb.
And you're still mad about your supercaps lol
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Skippermonkey
Tactical Knightmare
127
|
Posted - 2011.10.20 16:58:00 -
[62] - Quote
Its like people already forgot that the CSM just made CCP do a 180 in regards to their plans and possibly saved EVE in the long run. |
Avon
Versatech Co.
Raiden.
85
|
Posted - 2011.10.20 16:59:00 -
[63] - Quote
Hratli Smirks wrote:Avon wrote:
When my flight is landing I am far happier with the trained and experienced pilot making the choices, rather than the passengers voting for the most attractive trolly dolly to have a go.
Avon from Raiden. (formerly of a number of dead alliances we've killed) comparing CCP developers to professionals
Professional doesn't mean you are good at it, just that you get paid for it. Ask your mom if you don't understand. |
Kumq uat
Mercurialis Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
22
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Posted - 2011.10.20 16:59:00 -
[64] - Quote
This just in. Vile Rat has been hired as the new Community Manager by CCP. |
Jin'an Tonika
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
2
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Posted - 2011.10.20 17:00:00 -
[65] - Quote
Vile rat wrote:Jin'an Tonika wrote:Vile rat wrote:Jin'an Tonika wrote:
This is exactly why the CSM is useless, look at this maturity. God what a loser, FIRE THE CSM, CCP, AND SCRATCH THE WHOLE IDEA COMPLETELY.
Heres a THOUGHT, if you want to find out what your players think of the current situation, you have every single persons email address in your database, ever heard of a F***ing SURVEY! god get a grip
Random newbie corp alt you wound me. obviously you felt inclined to respond, so yah. for someone who is supposed to be a PR rep, you sure as hell don't know how to act like a professional. all the more reason to dump you and the rest of the CSM. I'm not a PR rep! I'm an elected representative who was elected on the platform I presented to the playerbase and feel VERY comfortable about the work I accomplished. This thread is a pile of **** that is nothing but a cheap shot at the CSM and I'm under no obligation to take it seriously :) I'm not.
You've shown by your posts exactly how serious you take the position you've been elected for.
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Skunk Gracklaw
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
212
|
Posted - 2011.10.20 17:00:00 -
[66] - Quote
Avon wrote:Hratli Smirks wrote:Avon wrote:
When my flight is landing I am far happier with the trained and experienced pilot making the choices, rather than the passengers voting for the most attractive trolly dolly to have a go.
Avon from Raiden. (formerly of a number of dead alliances we've killed) comparing CCP developers to professionals Professional doesn't mean you are good at it, just that you get paid for it. Ask your mom if you don't understand.
Wow dude...didn't take long for you to realize your arguments were doomed and resort to 'yo mama' jokes.
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Avon
Versatech Co.
Raiden.
85
|
Posted - 2011.10.20 17:01:00 -
[67] - Quote
Skippermonkey wrote:Its like people already forgot that the CSM just made CCP do a 180 in regards to their plans and possibly saved EVE in the long run.
The CSM didn't do that, they have already said in this thread that they tried but CCP didn't listen.
People leaving changed CCP's direction. |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
595
|
Posted - 2011.10.20 17:01:00 -
[68] - Quote
Couple of points.
CSM is almost certainly a tax-write off business expense to CCP. This needs taking into account. Anyone who runs their own business will appreciate that there is very little difference between the cost of taking a client out to lunch to discuss a contract and simply paying over the cash to the tax man.
That said.
I do agree the current CSM has some unprofessional members who have done a fairly poor job.
(of course it also has decent members who have done a decent job) Any elected council is always a mix of good and bad.
Sure its annoying that it seems to have devolved into a Nullsec bloc-vote thing in the main but the solution to that is for more players to vote not less.
I also have issues with the way the current CSM let CCP off the hook on the "vanity items" category for NeX and thats something I'd definitely like to see re-addressed (and properly this time) in the future.
But then again the CSM DID help in publicising the player protests against Incarna mandatory CQ and helped get our message out to the gaming media.
Plus and minus, it really isn't as a black and white as some in this thread suggest.
There is a valid discussion to be had on whether the CSM project as a whole has helped or hindered CCP/community relations in the long term I guess. But currently I think there is a fairly abusive cycle of angry people looking to scapegoat (well anything) and some members of the CSM thinking "well screw you!" (and counter trolling).
Its all hogwash though.
The blame for this current situation falls pure and clearly on CCP Senior Management who have mismanaged the Eve Online game for several years now. The current situation is not the fault of CSM/rank and file CCP devs/angry players or even Icelandic volcano gods.
I still believe in the CSM project and I think it is a good thing for Eve Online and the community. The fact that people got elected you may not like (or respect) should just be a challenge to get better people elected next time.
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom. Jericho Fraction is Recruiting! |
The Mittani
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1308
|
Posted - 2011.10.20 17:01:00 -
[69] - Quote
As I relaxed in the aftermath of a time-dilated fight where supercaps didn't rule the day and lag didn't determine the outcome, I browsed a rack of podkills with implants, spun my recently rebalanced hybrid-gunned ship, and typed off a poorly-thought-out ragepost about how the CSM was irrelevant, because I'm literally a big babby who has no idea what he's talking about.
I then went off to enjoy a bunch of new spaceship-related content that CCP produced after they finally acknowledged that focusing on FiS instead of WiS was the right thing to do! |
Skunk Gracklaw
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
212
|
Posted - 2011.10.20 17:02:00 -
[70] - Quote
Jin'an Tonika wrote:You've shown by your posts exactly how serious you take the position you've been elected for.
And you've shown by your posts you don't know what you're talking about and liked getting mocked on an internet forum.
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Vile rat
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
421
|
Posted - 2011.10.20 17:02:00 -
[71] - Quote
This is a serious question and I'm obligated to respond seriously. Thank you.
Keno Skir wrote:Aside from the OP or any of the replies so far. In your oppinion could the thousands of dollars used to fly the CSM across the world and back be put to better use paying the wages of the employees who have been let go?
In a heartbeat. Give me this option and have it implemented and I think every single one of us would love to give everything in this game up to get those people gainfully employed. This was a gut shot to all of us and we feel for the employees who lost their jobs. This sucks plain and simple.
Quote:
I'm not trying to suggest that griefers and in-game nastys shouldnt be on the CSM, nor am i suggesting everyone in goon should be removed because they apparently represent all that is bad in eve (NOT my oppinion, just the word on the street).
I'm not trying to attack any CSM personally, i'd like to be flown to iceland for beer and eve-talk too. I'm merely suggesting that some roles at CCP are more valuable to the game as a whole than the CSM, yet money that could be used to pay their wages is being spent sending the CSM on holiday. Back when the EvE community felt they needed a voice inside CCP the CSM was the answer we were given.
If I were told today that giving up the trip to Iceland would put some of the people that we've become friends with due to our close working relationship back to work I would do it without hesitation and with a big smile on my face. I feel the work we do is valuable but this isn't a video game, this is peoples lives who got uprooted.
Quote:
Do you on the CSM really believe you and your expenses are the best use of money right now for EvE?
Try to look at it from the perspective of someone paying for those trips while they watch the game sit stagnant.
The face to face meetings are huge. They help improve the game in big ways. They are valuable. Not as valuable as the jobs that were lost. Those jobs represent families and futures. We don't regret the work we've done to help make the game the best it can be for the players, but I'd resign right this second if that resignation resulted in one single job at CCP being restored.
Sadly this isn't the case.
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Avon
Versatech Co.
Raiden.
85
|
Posted - 2011.10.20 17:02:00 -
[72] - Quote
Skunk Gracklaw wrote:Avon wrote:Hratli Smirks wrote:Avon wrote:
When my flight is landing I am far happier with the trained and experienced pilot making the choices, rather than the passengers voting for the most attractive trolly dolly to have a go.
Avon from Raiden. (formerly of a number of dead alliances we've killed) comparing CCP developers to professionals Professional doesn't mean you are good at it, just that you get paid for it. Ask your mom if you don't understand. Wow dude...didn't take long for you to realize your arguments were doomed and resort to 'yo mama' jokes.
Gotta pitch 'em to the level of the audience, and you sure swung for it. |
White Tree
XxBroski North Reloaded Federation NinjaGuldDotxX.
Elite Space Guild
416
|
Posted - 2011.10.20 17:03:00 -
[73] - Quote
Skippermonkey wrote:Its like people already forgot that the CSM just made CCP do a 180 in regards to their plans and possibly saved EVE in the long run.
No but we didn't though. We didn't spearhead a media based campaign to get CCP to focus on FiS. We didn't spotlight Tidi and get it highlighted, we didn't press the need for a supercap nerf, we didn't press the need for a Hybrid rebalance, we didn't do any of these things because we're inherently powerless. We're just big dumb dummies. |
Barakkus
856
|
Posted - 2011.10.20 17:03:00 -
[74] - Quote
CSM is a joke, nothing more than a PR disaster for CCP and a way for people with absolutely no social skills or real life to inflate their e-peens and leak NDA material. The maturity level of the people that get on the CSM every year is about the same as 12 year olds.
If CCP was smart they would restructure the whole thing and run their PR like every other company in the industry. Marginalize the CSM even more than it is now, and for god's sake stop spending money on them or disclosing information to them you don't want public. They have done nothing to help deal with the idiots that scream on the forums, actually this last CSM has done nothing other than insult the players and try to start even more **** for CCP to have to clean up, AND they can't seem to keep their mouths shut about NDA material either.
There are much more successful ways to interact with your subscribers and has been proven out by most of the industry at this point. This laughable excuse of representation is nothing more than a bunch of children playing dress up and stroking their e-peens. |
Bring Stabity
Magellanic Itg
Goonswarm Federation
35
|
Posted - 2011.10.20 17:03:00 -
[75] - Quote
As right as most of you are, and as much as I agree the CSM should never have existed, let's be realistic. This is CCP, not a company known for their good decisions. How about you make rage threads about CCP instead of the CSM and get straight to the point? |
Mortis vonShadow
Balanaz Mining and Development Inc.
167
|
Posted - 2011.10.20 17:03:00 -
[76] - Quote
I blame Harm Pit for CCP's woes. I blame Harm Pit for getting those CCP employees fired. If he had been a more active player or had gone to any of the Fanfest and actually shown CCP how to make a better game, we, as the player base wouldn't be in this position today. I blame Harm Pit for making super caps overpowered, and for dragging Faction Warfare down the toilet. I also blame him for not stopping the Goons from attacking us hisec miners. I also blame Harm Pit for me not getting any kills in over a year.
I blame him for everything that is wrong in this world today. Since he started playing EVE Online, the world economy has gone to hell. Famine is rife in Africa again. War is rampant within the Middle East. Children all across the globe are going hungry because he refuses to become a farmer. Harm Pit caused that tsunami in Japan, and the subsiquent nuclear reactor meltdowns, I know he did it, I just know, mkay.
CCP's current situation is CCP's fault, not the CSMs. CCP has openly admitted to their mistakes. Going too far too fast. Classic mistake all new companys make. You blame six people. Really? SIX! Are you daft? If anything, the current CSM has finally gotten CCP to see what is happening. Walking in station? Who gives a **** about that? Oooh, look I can sit on a couch. I can walk to my ship now. Big whoopty doo. I can buy a monocle and some fancy boots. Are you being for real?
Do you know why no one is in nullsec? Cuz the sov mechanics are out of whack. Kind of hard to start a new alliance and take space when the current alliances have something in the neighborhood of 250+ supercarriers and titans. Or should we just leave them as they are?
No my friend, I blame you for all of lifes misfortunes. I blame you for everything that is wrong in the world today. I blame you for not being a shining example of how we as humans need to be. I especially blame you for the colors toape and mauve and why little puppies die at birth. I blame you for the homeless people living in my city. I also want to blame you for the drought that is going on here. I blame you for crop failures around the world and why tires go flat at the most incovienent times.
You may start your name calling now.
Some days you're the bug, and some days your the windscreen.
-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á And some days, you're just a man with a gun. |
Skunk Gracklaw
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
212
|
Posted - 2011.10.20 17:03:00 -
[77] - Quote
Avon wrote:Skippermonkey wrote:Its like people already forgot that the CSM just made CCP do a 180 in regards to their plans and possibly saved EVE in the long run. The CSM didn't do that, they have already said in this thread that they tried but CCP didn't listen. People leaving changed CCP's direction.
Let's test it. You leave and we'll see what happens.
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Avon
Versatech Co.
Raiden.
85
|
Posted - 2011.10.20 17:04:00 -
[78] - Quote
The Mittani wrote:As I relaxed in the aftermath of a time-dilated fight where supercaps didn't rule the day and lag didn't determine the outcome, I browsed a rack of podkills with implants, spun my recently rebalanced hybrid-gunned ship, and typed off a poorly-thought-out ragepost about how the CSM was irrelevant, because I'm literally a big babby who has no idea what he's talking about.
I then went off to enjoy a bunch of new spaceship-related content that CCP produced after they finally acknowledged that focusing on FiS instead of WiS was the right thing to do!
Shall we create a list of which of those items you can legitimately take credit for?
It won't take long.
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Skunk Gracklaw
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
212
|
Posted - 2011.10.20 17:05:00 -
[79] - Quote
Avon wrote:Gotta pitch 'em to the level of the audience, and you sure swung for it.
Except I'm not the one who is mad about losing my instant i-win button in space and acting like a little child on the forums about it.
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Skunk Gracklaw
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
212
|
Posted - 2011.10.20 17:05:00 -
[80] - Quote
Avon wrote:Skunk Gracklaw wrote:Avon wrote:Hratli Smirks wrote:Avon wrote:
When my flight is landing I am far happier with the trained and experienced pilot making the choices, rather than the passengers voting for the most attractive trolly dolly to have a go.
Avon from Raiden. (formerly of a number of dead alliances we've killed) comparing CCP developers to professionals Professional doesn't mean you are good at it, just that you get paid for it. Ask your mom if you don't understand. Wow dude...didn't take long for you to realize your arguments were doomed and resort to 'yo mama' jokes. Gotta pitch 'em to the level of the audience, and you sure swung for it.
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Keno Skir
20
|
Posted - 2011.10.20 17:05:00 -
[81] - Quote
Many thanks for the serious reply, was not expecting it.
+1
The Apostle : I want a kangeroo
Captain Kirk : Silly Austrians
Sarmatiko : Let me guess: you're from US?
Captain Kirk : Yeah Riverside IA - why? |
Avon
Versatech Co.
Raiden.
86
|
Posted - 2011.10.20 17:06:00 -
[82] - Quote
Skunk Gracklaw wrote:Avon wrote:Gotta pitch 'em to the level of the audience, and you sure swung for it. Except I'm not the one who is mad about losing my instant i-win button in space and acting like a little child on the forums about it.
I don't own a supercap, so that's strike 2. |
Girl is Monk
State War Academy
Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.20 17:06:00 -
[83] - Quote
The Mittani wrote:As I relaxed in the aftermath of a time-dilated fight where supercaps didn't rule the day and lag didn't determine the outcome, I browsed a rack of podkills with implants, spun my recently rebalanced hybrid-gunned ship, and typed off a poorly-thought-out ragepost about how the CSM was irrelevant, because I'm literally a big babby who has no idea what he's talking about.
I then went off to enjoy a bunch of new spaceship-related content that CCP produced after they finally acknowledged that focusing on FiS instead of WiS was the right thing to do!
(using vile rat's post about the appropriate place for such threads...) I've posted a thread in the Assembly Hall. When will we be getting a formal CSM response to these events. |
Skunk Gracklaw
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
224
|
Posted - 2011.10.20 17:08:00 -
[84] - Quote
Avon wrote:Skunk Gracklaw wrote:Avon wrote:Gotta pitch 'em to the level of the audience, and you sure swung for it. Except I'm not the one who is mad about losing my instant i-win button in space and acting like a little child on the forums about it. I don't own a supercap, so that's strike 2.
you're still mad about the nerf because your alliance can't do anything without them.
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T-Jay Charante
The Scope
Gallente Federation
6
|
Posted - 2011.10.20 17:08:00 -
[85] - Quote
Skippermonkey wrote:Its like people already forgot that the CSM just made CCP do a 180 in regards to their plans and possibly saved EVE in the long run.
Oh, I thought it was due to all the people that unsubscribed that forced that change.
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Skunk Gracklaw
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
224
|
Posted - 2011.10.20 17:09:00 -
[86] - Quote
T-Jay Charante wrote:Oh, I thought
I just discovered your problem
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Hratli Smirks
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
86
|
Posted - 2011.10.20 17:09:00 -
[87] - Quote
Avon wrote:Hratli Smirks wrote:Avon wrote:
When my flight is landing I am far happier with the trained and experienced pilot making the choices, rather than the passengers voting for the most attractive trolly dolly to have a go.
Avon from Raiden. (formerly of a number of dead alliances we've killed) comparing CCP developers to professionals Professional doesn't mean you are good at it, just that you get paid for it. Ask your mom if you don't understand.
I don't know, being a "professional" implies to me some degree of professionalism, e.g. a certain dedication to ethical and moral obligations as part of their skilled tradecraft rather than simply accepting money for brute labor
of course you were a member of Band of Brothers alliance during the T20 scandal so you may not see things the same way! |
Imuran
Zentor Industries
5
|
Posted - 2011.10.20 17:10:00 -
[88] - Quote
Vile rat wrote:AAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
you actually typed all that.
Sums it up really - another constructive comment |
Slade Trillgon
Endless Possibilities Inc.
42
|
Posted - 2011.10.20 17:10:00 -
[89] - Quote
Bring Stabity wrote:As right as most of you are, and as much as I agree the CSM should never have existed, let's be realistic. This is CCP, not a company known for their good decisions. How about you make rage threads about CCP instead of the CSM and get straight to the point?
That has been and continues to be done even with the recent developments. All the CSM has 'pushed' through recently was mainly influenced by the massive drop in CCP's 'numbers'. How long have these issues been raised by much of the player base and the CSM in the past. All the CSM has to do with it was maybe putting the voice of the many into a more decipherable context. Which can be done via the forums/e-mail/phone/skype/IM and not necessarily done face to face
Slade |
Hratli Smirks
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
86
|
Posted - 2011.10.20 17:11:00 -
[90] - Quote
basically Avon I'm saying you were a member of a group of cheaters so you would not recognize moral or ethical distinctions hth |
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