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Velyks
Broski Enterprises Elite Space Guild
2
|
Posted - 2011.10.20 22:20:00 -
[211] - Quote
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote: That's not what I've seen happen in the short time I've been in the Eve community.
Well bang goes your opinion. Having been here for 5 years now I can wholeheartedly say that this is the only CSM that has actually done something.
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:[quote=David Carel][quote=TexasFire] Most of them don't vote because they don't know to vote.
Someone who is too blind to look at the giant posters on the login screen, the eve online website, the forums, or even local chat, probably isn't the kind of person who is interested in the community of eve or the direction the game is taking in the first place and thus doesn't need to be represented by the CSM http://i.imgur.com/JyLjl.jpg |

Lee'lei
Broski Enterprises Elite Space Guild
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.20 22:21:00 -
[212] - Quote
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:David Carel wrote:TexasFire wrote: The present CSM is not in touch with the EVE community. The EVE community is not just 0.0.
>25% of highsec are an alt of a nullsec alliance member. Meaning that >50% aren't. Outside of the nullsec voting blocs, you've got Incursion fleets, mission runners, high sec industrialists, wormhole corps, faction warfare, pirates, mercenaries, and independents all largely left without representation. Most of them don't vote because they don't know to vote. I was playing during the last CSM election and had no idea it was happening. CCP isn't doing a good job of informing the players.
are you kidding me? are you actually saying what you are saying? I want to rip my hair out.
CCP had:
Massive splash images over the login screen Constant blogs and links on the front page Stuff EVERYWHERE over the forum Even billboards in space had CSM banners Constant news updated regarding the CSM
Just because you don't bother to look past your mission running overview doesn't mean that ccp didn't make an effort, they could have probably replaced the entire background of the launcher with the letters "CSM" and you would have still ignored it.
Try taking an active part in something other than mission running you filthy highsec scrub nerd virgin. |

David Carel
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
61
|
Posted - 2011.10.20 22:27:00 -
[213] - Quote
It's simple, really. Eve is about Nullsec. Everything else is just support. |

Killstealing
Broski Enterprises Elite Space Guild
25
|
Posted - 2011.10.20 22:41:00 -
[214] - Quote
change all eve to nullsec except for concord sov systems
done |

David Carel
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
61
|
Posted - 2011.10.20 22:42:00 -
[215] - Quote
Supported. |

David Carel
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
61
|
Posted - 2011.10.20 22:42:00 -
[216] - Quote
Supported, but give Concord a 1.0 region. |

T-Jay Charante
The Scope Gallente Federation
7
|
Posted - 2011.10.20 22:48:00 -
[217] - Quote
Lee'lei wrote:FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:David Carel wrote:TexasFire wrote: The present CSM is not in touch with the EVE community. The EVE community is not just 0.0.
>25% of highsec are an alt of a nullsec alliance member. Meaning that >50% aren't. Outside of the nullsec voting blocs, you've got Incursion fleets, mission runners, high sec industrialists, wormhole corps, faction warfare, pirates, mercenaries, and independents all largely left without representation. Most of them don't vote because they don't know to vote. I was playing during the last CSM election and had no idea it was happening. CCP isn't doing a good job of informing the players. are you kidding me? are you actually saying what you are saying? I want to rip my hair out. CCP had: Massive splash images over the login screen Constant blogs and links on the front page Stuff EVERYWHERE over the forum Even billboards in space had CSM banners Constant news updated regarding the CSM Just because you don't bother to look past your mission running overview doesn't mean that ccp didn't make an effort, they could have probably replaced the entire background of the launcher with the letters "CSM" and you would have still ignored it. Try taking an active part in something other than mission running you filthy highsec scrub nerd virgin.
Quote: I want to rip my hair out. Interstellar badass right there 
|

Hylo Verr
SregginWaffe Elite Space Guild
1
|
Posted - 2011.10.20 22:55:00 -
[218] - Quote
People who hide in hi-sec and wine that CSM doesn't represent them while wanting to remain a no risk carebear is kind of pathetic, not to mention high-sec is eye stabbingly boring . I've only been playing the game for 3 months and 2 1/2 of that has been in null sec. instead of wining about CSM why don't you come on out to null-sec and have some fun Words are Cheap, Blood is Costly |

Lykouleon
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
202
|
Posted - 2011.10.20 23:06:00 -
[219] - Quote
Harm Pit wrote:* I can provide links to CSM members padding their CVs (and indeed misrepresnting her role at CCP and eventualy being let go due to an NDA breech.)
You also realize that that particular member of the CSM was, in fact, the high-sec care-bear representative that had barely any idea how most of the game mechanics function and was also mentally unstable? Correct?
You also do realize that the CSM members are human beings and regular players like the rest of us, not demi-Gods or "professionals," correct? Lykouleon > CYNO ME CLOSER SO I CAN HIT THEM WITH MY SWORD |

Killstealing
Broski Enterprises Elite Space Guild
25
|
Posted - 2011.10.20 23:11:00 -
[220] - Quote
Lykouleon wrote:Harm Pit wrote:* I can provide links to CSM members padding their CVs (and indeed misrepresnting her role at CCP and eventualy being let go due to an NDA breech.) You also realize that that particular member of the CSM was, in fact, the high-sec care-bear representative that had barely any idea how most of the game mechanics function and was also mentally unstable? Correct? You also do realize that the CSM members are human beings and regular players like the rest of us, not demi-Gods or "professionals," correct? mittani is obviously padding his cv for a new job |

Jiska Ensa
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
16
|
Posted - 2011.10.20 23:22:00 -
[221] - Quote
Damn it eve gate...wrong thread? |

War Kitten
Panda McLegion
115
|
Posted - 2011.10.20 23:50:00 -
[222] - Quote
Harm Pit wrote:
Beter still, lets participate in the democrat process by NOT voting. Surely if only a few percent of the eve subscriber base vote in an election that is practicaly thrust down your throat by CCP every election, it will demonstrate that the CSM is not wanted and has no mandate to represent us.
Oh wait, over 90% of the playerbase didnt vote for the present members. The majority DONT care or activley DONT WANT the CSM.
Sack em. Hire devs.
If 90% don't participate, it doesn't mean the CSM weren't elected democratically. It means 90% were either ignorant of or apathetic about the election.
Choosing not to participate is informed apathy, it doesn't signal disapproval of the process.
If you really do care, you would vote and organize others to vote in a similar manner. Actively campaigning against the vote is contrary to your cause. You just don't realize it. This is my signature.-á There are many others like it, but this one is mine. |

FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks
150
|
Posted - 2011.10.21 02:15:00 -
[223] - Quote
Lee'lei wrote:Massive splash images over the login screen
None that I remember seeing. Of course, after months of seeing paid advertisements on the login screen, CCP did a pretty good job of training me to ignore that box and just log in. I might have looked right through it.
One of the common lessons of web design is that you can no longer use content on certain parts of pages any more because ad placement in those areas has become so common that people have learned to simply ignore it. Same goes for the login screen: if you're going to spam it with magazine ads, special pricing deals, and various other crap, don't expect people to see important information when you present it in the same way.
Lee'lei wrote:Constant blogs and links on the front page Stuff EVERYWHERE over the forum
The website and the forum are separate from the game, and you shouldn't expect people to visit them in order to be informed of something like the CSM elections.
Lee'lei wrote:Even billboards in space had CSM banners Constant news updated regarding the CSM
I almost never see billboards.
Lee'lei wrote:Just because you don't bother to look past your mission running overview doesn't mean that ccp didn't make an effort, they could have probably replaced the entire background of the launcher with the letters "CSM" and you would have still ignored it.
You're right, I probably would have ignored that, or at least stopped with "wtf does CSM mean?" CCP does a ****-poor job of communicating the existence and purpose of the CSM to new players.
Lee'lei wrote:Try taking an active part in something other than mission running you filthy highsec scrub nerd virgin.
I'm not even going to bother. That quizzical "wtf is wrong with you?" look on my toon's face...That's for people like you. |

FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks
150
|
Posted - 2011.10.21 02:17:00 -
[224] - Quote
Hylo Verr wrote:People who hide in hi-sec and wine that CSM doesn't represent them while wanting to remain a no risk carebear is kind of pathetic, not to mention high-sec is eye stabbingly boring . I've only been playing the game for 3 months and 2 1/2 of that has been in null sec. instead of wining about CSM why don't you come on out to null-sec and have some fun There's much fun to be had in high sec without being a risk-averse carebear. In some ways, it's far more entertaining than the n+1 combat that frequently goes on in null. There's merit to both, but I like small gang warfare better and that's more common where I am. |

Darius III
Interstellar eXodus BricK sQuAD.
257
|
Posted - 2011.10.21 04:10:00 -
[225] - Quote
Taxtro Grave wrote:I've been playing for over 6 years now, and I have yet to vote in the CSM. It's just like the high school prom's King and Queen. Only the most popular win, not who is actually good for the job.
Disgusting.
That is untrue at every turn my good man, let me assure you. The CSM isn't Prom King material: Underdogs can come out of nowhere and be in Iceland by July (even last place alts I am told) and believe it or not-some of Eve's best and brightest are in there.
I have a message for the OP
If Women aren't supposed to do the cooking, why are their bodies full of milk and eggs? |

War Kitten
Panda McLegion
116
|
Posted - 2011.10.21 10:31:00 -
[226] - Quote
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:Lee'lei wrote:Massive splash images over the login screen None that I remember seeing. Of course, after months of seeing paid advertisements on the login screen, CCP did a pretty good job of training me to ignore that box and just log in. I might have looked right through it. One of the common lessons of web design is that you can no longer use content on certain parts of pages any more because ad placement in those areas has become so common that people have learned to simply ignore it. Same goes for the login screen: if you're going to spam it with magazine ads, special pricing deals, and various other crap, don't expect people to see important information when you present it in the same way. (snipped the rest of your reasoning for ignoring several more contact methods)
Well then, where exactly would you propose CCP put messages about the CSM so that it catches the eye of the willfully ignorant, head-in-the-sand players that can't be bothered to pay attention to all the smoke signals being sent their way?
If you care enough about the game, inform yourself by reading the login messages, forums, devblogs and website. This is my signature.-á There are many others like it, but this one is mine. |

Prometheus Exenthal
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
26
|
Posted - 2011.10.21 20:35:00 -
[227] - Quote
Just because you don't see the play-by-play, doesn't mean we aren't fighting for you and for a better game that we can all enjoy  |

Yeep
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
10
|
Posted - 2011.10.21 21:26:00 -
[228] - Quote
Harm Pit wrote: As an example, I reffered to Drunken CSM members, intending to reinforce the "waste of money" position I have regarding the CSM. You seen to have taken my evidencing this as some sort of Pious disaproval of alchol or something. This is certainly not the case. I do disaprove of the wast of money getting these people flown to Iceland to get pissed up though. And the references to "massive hangovers" at CCP and the obvious detrimental effect these would have on the supposed role the CSM are nominaly supposed to be performing.
Except you clearly do have issues with alcohol. Many adults will bond over a drink and the drinking culture is strong in Iceland. Are you suggesting that the CSM shouldn't have socialised with CCP staff members, instead electing to remain cold and distant?
Not to mention you completely ignored the part of the post you quoted where it was explained that the cost of 2x 8 trips to Iceland would pay for roughly the salary of one single developer, and thats not even including the other costs that come with hiring staff (equipment purchasing, consumable usage etc...). I'd certainly take the CSM over 1 developer. Not any specific developer but fortunately I don't have to choose one because I don't work at CCP. |

Eternum Praetorian
PWNED Factor The Seventh Day
91
|
Posted - 2011.10.22 12:11:00 -
[229] - Quote
Representatives should be conducting themselves in an unbiased and professional manner, for the company they represent.
They should not be acting like tools, posting HAHAHAHAHA walls of text or linking delicious tears demotivaters in every Anti-CSM thread that pops up. They should be giving us a reason to change our mind.
That being said your inflated egos are about to get **** canned. Enjoy. |

Phill Esteen
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.22 12:36:00 -
[230] - Quote
Harm Pit wrote:CCP are tightening their belts, and now is the perfect time to tighten the metaphorical noose around the CSMGǪ-áThey need to be sacked. NOW. Hilmar.. get shot of them!
Yes, eliminating the CSM will save CCP an enormous amount of isk and not alienate the already frustrated playerbase in any way. No sir.
Harm Pit wrote:12 world wide plane tickets, hotel fees, meals, and incidental costs many times a year would have paid the wages of some of the Devs who have been given the boot.
I am fairly sure this is stupid.
edit: I do however wish to point out that the title of this thread caused me considerable amusement |

Mahakaharashi RedEagle
Hedion University Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.22 13:22:00 -
[231] - Quote
CSM? Hahahahah
Never voted, never will. Because if CCP really wants to hear the voice of their players, they would give us direct polls integrated within the client, then publish results and act accordingly. This game is not freaking state, we don't need public representatives (bunch of immature ego-maniacs and pompous asses, btw), nor some so-called "democratic elections" (in which participate only 10% or even less of subscribed players).
CSM is just a CCP's cheap PR tool and as such deserves zero attention and respect. |

Mahakaharashi RedEagle
Hedion University Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.22 13:30:00 -
[232] - Quote
double post |

Lharanai
Empyrean Guard Seventh Vanguard
19
|
Posted - 2011.10.22 13:50:00 -
[233] - Quote
I repeat my statement as some people really don't get it, I can't hear that stupid "your fault if you don't vote" or "run for CSM yourself" anymore,
The CSM are highly dedicated persons (with a lot of knowledge about EVE) which invest a lot of their time to EVE and this includes election campaigns. Problem is, not everyone is so dedicated or has the time for it....you now, like the casual players who just want to have a little fun in a computer game. EVE is a game not the political system we live in.
Do I blame the CSMs? Hell NO, they fight for what they think is the best for EVE. Unfortunately, as they are so highly immersed in the EVE Universe and their particular play style, the needs and wants of casual players don't have an impact on them.
Furthermore if you are a highly dedicated hardcore player you have no clue what casual players want you can only assume and it is not important to you.
The problem is that the CSM represent the hardcore players, and this is okay because they represent the players which elected them (look up the definition of 'representative"). Meanwhile casual players will not vote or run for CSM because they are not so involved in the game and all that crap about your fault if you don't vote will not work, hell most of them are not reading the forums because they want to play eve and NOT to spent hours here to get involved with the development of EVE.
Focus again Lharanai focus,
facts
the CSM represents the hardore players, and thats what they are voted for by hardcore players
there are a lot of casual players in EVE
these casual players will not run for CSM because they have no interest/time to do it, EVE is just a game to have fun
casual players pay for their accounts too, but have no voice to represent them (and they are not interested in getting a voice, as they just want to play a computer game and not running a election campaign in a computer game)
if casual players have no fun, they leave, without protest, without outcry, they just leave
CCP has just to ACCEPT that the CSMs only represents a part of all eve players and everything is fine, just DON'T make them the only voice you hear because they are so easy to hear.
*edit and direct vote has the same flaw, as some players don't WANT to get so deeply involved Touch my **** and I will **** your **** with an rusty **** and **** into your ****, and then I will **** your **** until you ******************** |

Lharanai
Empyrean Guard Seventh Vanguard
19
|
Posted - 2011.10.22 14:23:00 -
[234] - Quote
also to be productive
forget the ingame voting idea, many players will just click it away because they have no clue who these CSMs are and they don't want to, they just want to play a game.
But what might work would be a representative survey by GM of Dev, contact players directly ingame, develop something like a short interview AND make sure (I assume CCP can it based on customer information) that you don't ask only Alts. Touch my **** and I will **** your **** with an rusty **** and **** into your ****, and then I will **** your **** until you ******************** |

Mahakaharashi RedEagle
Hedion University Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.22 15:02:00 -
[235] - Quote
Lharanai, this ingame voting would not be voting for some new CSM, because we don't need that. CSM is inneficient, complicated, slow, corrupted, biased, it represents only a small minority of CCP's customers, and beside that it's also suffering from serious flaw you described very well: "few hardcore players voted by few hardcore players".
Client-built polls should be held on regular bases, containing series of relatively simple, clear but DIRECT questions related to future development of the game as well as to usual everyday happenings all around New Eden. Do you like this, why don't you like that, what of the things listed you would like to see in next expansion, rate this, rate that... stuff like that.
Sure plenty of people would just click and close that window poping up on login but that's still light years ahead of current voting for this silly flying circus called CSM. Procedure is simpler, requires little time, and MUCH more paying customers would get a chance to voice their opinion.
Only potential problem I see is with CCP and their readiness to ask right questions, also to make ALL poll results public for everyone to see and draw some conclusions. |

Elise DarkStar
DarkCorp Capital Group DarkCorp Imperium
83
|
Posted - 2011.10.22 15:17:00 -
[236] - Quote
You're using a common fallacy in political theory. You don't need to be black to represent black people, female to represent females, nor a casual player to represent causal players. Selecting people as "representative" is actually the surest way to ensure that actual concerns and voices are never heard, as representatives have no incentive to actually understand their constituents wants, as they are just assumed to know them.
I am confident that I could better represent the desires of a casual hisec player than anyone you will get by some kind of forced representation system. I could do this by doing what political actors are supposed to do which is conversing with their supporters and amalgamating their supporters' desires into some kind of cohesive message.
The only reason all these people are freaking out is because they suddenly realize that the CSM can be useful. So let's give people a chance to represent themselves before we start forcing representatives on them for their own good. |

Khira Kitamatsu
243
|
Posted - 2011.10.22 16:19:00 -
[237] - Quote
Prometheus Exenthal wrote:Just because you don't see the play-by-play, doesn't mean we aren't fighting for you and for a better game that we can all enjoy 
You're right, but all indications are you are only out for yourselves. What has the CSM done for the players of high-sec or WH space other than try to destroy our fun and ability to enjoy the game? Ponies!-á We need more ponies! |

Johan Krieger
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
14
|
Posted - 2011.10.22 17:51:00 -
[238] - Quote
I have facepalmed so many times while reading this thread.
Oh well, pubbies will be pubbies. |

Killstealing
Broski Enterprises Elite Space Guild
54
|
Posted - 2011.10.22 18:10:00 -
[239] - Quote
choo choo
all aboard the threadnaught |

Phill Esteen
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.22 21:50:00 -
[240] - Quote
Khira Kitamatsu wrote:Prometheus Exenthal wrote:Just because you don't see the play-by-play, doesn't mean we aren't fighting for you and for a better game that we can all enjoy  You're right, but all indications are you are only out for yourselves. What has the CSM done for the players of high-sec or WH space other than try to destroy our fun and ability to enjoy the game?
erm, what has the CSM done to ruin highsec exactly? |
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