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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 7 post(s) |
Galphii
Clandestine Vector THE SPACE P0LICE
139
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Posted - 2013.05.29 01:21:00 -
[181] - Quote
Just fyi, turning ore sites into anomalies makes them worse, not better. Highsec sites will be swarmed over by the huge numbers of miners (I'd hardly call that exploration) lowsec and w-space sites will be giant 'target me' signs, and in nullsec they'll be 'just another belt' with nothing in there not already available in regular belts (except in shallow nullsec - which is just as bad as lowsec).
Bad change. X |
Zane Ziebold
Mom 'n' Pop Ammo Shoppe R.E.P.O.
1
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Posted - 2013.05.29 01:23:00 -
[182] - Quote
Quote: As part of the work Team Five-0 is doing, Ore sites (aka Gravimetric sites) are being made Cosmic Anomalies instead of Cosmic Signatures, meaning you no longer need probes to find them.
I still want to know why you are doing this it seams my post on the test server did not get an answer. I still think this is going to hurt more than it helps. PLEASE change this back to the way it was, or at least tell us why this is happening. If scanning is going to be easier then they should be able to find then. |
Acks
RONA Corporation RONA Directorate
44
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Posted - 2013.05.29 01:24:00 -
[183] - Quote
CCP Orion wrote:Dino Boff wrote:Nice changes. I've always been sad too few newbies started eve by running exploration. I hope it will bring more players to it.
I just hope w-space mag and radar won't be too messed up.
Also, can you still copy/paste the signature list? yes, copy to clipboard is unchanged.
I love how devs will almost exclusively respond to the happy fluffy "atta boy" comments and not respond to any of the myriad of others. They will respond to questions that do not express an opinion for or against. But if you are clearly in the against camp... don't hold your breath waiting for a response.
We are on page 9 and at least half of these posts address the same 3-4 issues / concerns. Do they respond to any of these or god forbid add an original response saying "We see 147 people up to this point have expressed concern about X. Here are our thoughts / explanations / plans". No.
If it is not a happy fluffy CCP is the greatest... or at a minimum a carefully neutral question, you are unlikely to get a response.
WTF do we even bother.... |
Sassums
Wormhole Exploration Crew R.E.P.O.
78
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Posted - 2013.05.29 01:30:00 -
[184] - Quote
Why do you fix things that are not broken?
Holding shift allows us to move all the probes at once, and hitting alt allows them to move them closer together. Why are we changing something that already works? |
Utremi Fasolasi
The Jagged Edge Rebel Alliance of New Eden
242
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Posted - 2013.05.29 01:40:00 -
[185] - Quote
Lorna Sicling wrote:Quote:As part of the work Team Five-0 is doing, Ore sites (aka Gravimetric sites) are being made Cosmic Anomalies instead of Cosmic Signatures, meaning you no longer need probes to find them. So what you're saying is that to gank a miner in a null sec system when a Corp / Alliance has spent hundreds of millions of ISK upgrading the industry level to get the grav sites, you don't need probes anymore.
On the plus side, as a nullsec miner you don't need to scan down the sites and then reship to a barge or exhumer. And back again after the current set is depleted.
And.. aren't you docking up when you see Neuts in system on Local or your corp/alliance Intel channel? |
Sassums
Wormhole Exploration Crew R.E.P.O.
78
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Posted - 2013.05.29 02:01:00 -
[186] - Quote
Utremi Fasolasi wrote:Lorna Sicling wrote:Quote:As part of the work Team Five-0 is doing, Ore sites (aka Gravimetric sites) are being made Cosmic Anomalies instead of Cosmic Signatures, meaning you no longer need probes to find them. So what you're saying is that to gank a miner in a null sec system when a Corp / Alliance has spent hundreds of millions of ISK upgrading the industry level to get the grav sites, you don't need probes anymore. On the plus side, as a nullsec miner you don't need to scan down the sites and then reship to a barge or exhumer. And back again after the current set is depleted. And.. aren't you docking up when you see Neuts in system on Local or your corp/alliance Intel channel?
Except in WH space we dont have the luxory of Local Chat alerting us when there is an intruder. We'll just get killed right away.
So much for paying attention to that minor detail CCP.
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Kuetlzelcoatl
10
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Posted - 2013.05.29 02:10:00 -
[187] - Quote
I'm amazed how often the "dumbing down Eve" card is pulled when people don't like changes. Its becoming as bad as "crying wolf."
Change, change is good. The best Eve players are the ones who adapt to change the quickest. Just as in life.
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Zifrian
Licentia Ex Vereor Black Core Alliance
951
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Posted - 2013.05.29 02:40:00 -
[188] - Quote
When I hop through a wormhole in my Helios, I first uncloak, pop a probe to scan the sig for the wh I came through, then move off and drop a few more probes while I warp to a planet to set a safe, go to the safe, pop the rest of my probes and begin scanning after I cloak. If I get caught at any point, or chased, I then have to recall all my probes before jumping back through the wh or I lose them. I might even get caught in another wh without probes and get screwed.
Some may do it another way. That's the great thing about EVE. There are many ways to do the same thing.
But in the new system it's hop through, hit button to deploy all probes, cloak up. Someone comes after you, you hop back through the wh, auto return probes and go on your merry way. All the same.
So tell me, which system is more of a challenge? Which one is keeping with the spirit of EVE? Maximze your Industry Potential! - Get EVE Isk per Hour! |
Acks
RONA Corporation RONA Directorate
45
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Posted - 2013.05.29 02:57:00 -
[189] - Quote
Ok ...
Because I am just that fed up and becasue everyone who plays eve loves numbers, I went through and tabulated the sentiment / tone from the first 180 posts of this thread. I realize this is somewhat subjective. I rated posts in three categories:
- Positive feedback on these specific changes
- Negative feedback on these specific changes
- Neutral feedback / questions on these specific changes or off topic comments / questions
A total of 100 points were allocated to each post. Clearly negative / positive responses got 100% respectively. Mixed responses got a % for good, bad, neutral based on the points made. Snarky comments got a mixed negative / neutral value based on intensity and topics covered.
Finally of the first 180 posts, 11 were Dev, CSM, or ISD responses which I filtered out. This means that there were a total of 16,900 total points available. Rounding results to the nearest % we get the following:
- Good = 7%
- Bad = 51%
- Neutral / Off Topic= 42%
Draw your own conclusions.
Oh and before the CCP fanboys cry "Only angry people respond", There have been times where CCP does stuff we actually want and like that is well thought out. Those threads are almost exclusively positive. |
Niko Lorenzio
United Eve Directorate
249
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Posted - 2013.05.29 03:26:00 -
[190] - Quote
Ehh....... I was truly excited about the coming changes, but I feel like you went too far. It seems to me that in an effort of making scanning and exploration more "accessible" (nothing wrong with that) you overshot a bit and made it way too easy. Where's the challenge of exploration and scanning? Seems to me that it will become almost as boring as mining and missioning.
Oh well, we'll see when it comes out for real. |
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Popsikle
Hard Knocks Inc.
2
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Posted - 2013.05.29 03:28:00 -
[191] - Quote
CCP Orion wrote:Dino Boff wrote:Nice changes. I've always been sad too few newbies started eve by running exploration. I hope it will bring more players to it.
I just hope w-space mag and radar won't be too messed up.
Also, can you still copy/paste the signature list? yes, copy to clipboard is unchanged.
So you pick one of the three posts in the 10 pages of comments that like the idea to respond to? How about responding to the rest of us who thing these changes SUCK?
You are killing markets that people are heavily invested into.
You are killing skills that people are heavily invested into.
You are killing wh mining completely..
Just to mention three of the major issues, not to mention having to micro manage how many probes are in our launchers....
But go ahead, respond to the one positive post instead of actually listening to your playbase. Have you guys not learned ANYTHING over the last 10 years?!?!? |
Komen
Capital Enrichment Services Existential Anxiety
195
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Posted - 2013.05.29 03:56:00 -
[192] - Quote
Popsikle wrote:CCP Orion wrote:Dino Boff wrote:Nice changes. I've always been sad too few newbies started eve by running exploration. I hope it will bring more players to it.
I just hope w-space mag and radar won't be too messed up.
Also, can you still copy/paste the signature list? yes, copy to clipboard is unchanged. So you pick one of the three posts in the 10 pages of comments that like the idea to respond to? How about responding to the rest of us who thing these changes SUCK? You are killing markets that people are heavily invested into. You are killing skills that people are heavily invested into. You are killing wh mining completely.. Just to mention three of the major issues, not to mention having to micro manage how many probes are in our launchers.... But go ahead, respond to the one positive post instead of actually listening to your playbase. Have you guys not learned ANYTHING over the last 10 years?!?!? They are heavily invested in believing this shiny new thing is good. They have worked hard, and to a degree I like what I see. I also don't like what I see.
As an example of dumbing down, and how it is NOT crying wolf: Sandbox elements which could result in a failure state (for instance, running out of probes and getting stuck in a wormhole with no way to scan back to known space) are being removed. Part of the danger of Eve is that your own stupidity, ignorance, or inattention can get you stuck in a bad place with bad people doing bad things to you. Automatic recall of probes means this particular instance of failure state is now nigh impossible, unless someone accidentally jettisons all of their probes and loses the jetcan.
CCP, please consider that in a sandbox game, you need to have failure states for activities. It makes succeeding more rewarding. |
Felicity Love
STARKRAFT Joint Venture Conglomerate
644
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 04:09:00 -
[193] - Quote
+1 for the appropriate use of the word "grok".
Proud Beta Tester for "Bumping Uglies for Dummies" |
Goosius Tal
RONA Corporation RONA Directorate
0
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Posted - 2013.05.29 04:26:00 -
[194] - Quote
While having the formation probes thing is kind of handy the whole auto return/reconnect side is a bit far. I remember when WH's first came out that there where many people who took the initiative to scanning out stranded people and helping them return home for a fee...the quick way or long way in different cases but it was a sense of consequence to mess up. With the ability for cov ops to instantly launch all probes at once they will be even closer to impossible to find and kill.
If people say "oh noes" I forgot my probes now I am lost to bad. Let them deal with it by asking for help in chat channels or leaving their ship behind and podding themselves would be really nice for some one who eventually finds a nice new toy. It is the same thing as if they forgot to bookmark their exits, I hope CCP doesn't turn around and have an auto BM feature for WH's because it is to much trouble for players to save it themselves.
I never had a problem with scanning down grav sites using probes. Others have pointed out that it will be a problem for mining security reasons which I agree with. If people are to lazy to use probes then they should miss out on the rewards that probe scanning brings to the true explorers.
The new Hacking and archeology sites look like they will be interesting on the plus side. Please do not dumb down EVE to the point where there is no challenge or sense of accomplishment. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
5255
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Posted - 2013.05.29 05:48:00 -
[195] - Quote
Kuetlzelcoatl wrote:I'm amazed how often the "dumbing down Eve" card is pulled when people don't like changes. Its becoming as bad as "crying wolf."
Automatically recalling probes whenever docking or jumping isn't dumbing the game down? Forcing us to launch all probes in the launcher up to a maximum of 8 even if we just wanted to launch one isn't dumbing the game down? Forcing us to start in one of two preset configurations isn't dumbing the game down? Forcing the initial position of the probes (on the map) at the sun isn't dumbing the game down (and doesn't represent a huge nerf to combat probing)? -áMy (mostly boring) Youtube channel. |
Euthanasia Anneto
Embers Children TOHA Conglomerate
9
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Posted - 2013.05.29 05:49:00 -
[196] - Quote
I want a new module: XL Secure Trashcan. To throw away all my scanning skills and experience for other fools to use for just being there.
This will be the first time I petition for finding a exit. |
Quinn Corvez
DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD Polarized.
4
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Posted - 2013.05.29 05:53:00 -
[197] - Quote
Why would they make it so people don't lose probes anymore? I don't thing waiting for your probes to return or losing them in space was that big of an issue.
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l0rd carlos
Friends Of Harassment
451
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 05:57:00 -
[198] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Kuetlzelcoatl wrote:I'm amazed how often the "dumbing down Eve" card is pulled when people don't like changes. Its becoming as bad as "crying wolf."
Automatically recalling probes whenever docking or jumping isn't dumbing the game down? Forcing us to launch all probes in the launcher up to a maximum of 8 even if we just wanted to launch one isn't dumbing the game down? Forcing us to start in one of two preset configurations isn't dumbing the game down? Forcing the initial position of the probes (on the map) at the sun isn't dumbing the game down (and doesn't represent a huge nerf to combat probing)?
The barrier for entering gets lower, being good at it still takes the same skill. German blog about smallscale lowsec pvp: http://friendsofharassment.wordpress.com |
Roime
Ten Thousand Years Shinjiketo
2995
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 06:07:00 -
[199] - Quote
l0rd carlos wrote: The barrier for entering gets lower, being good at it still takes the same skill.
Lol no. Barrier for entry remains exactly the same, being good was made easier.
-á- All I really wanted was to build a castle among the stars - |
TurAmarth ElRandir
Hiigaran Bounty Hunters Inc. Surely You're Joking
42
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 06:15:00 -
[200] - Quote
Quinn Corvez wrote:Why would they make it so people don't lose probes anymore? I don't thing waiting for your probes to return or losing them in space was that big of an issue.
LOL never been in W-space huh? Empire, Hi, Lo & Null are NOT all of EvE. A huge risk, and a ton of fun are to be had in holes when either you forget to load a launcher, or screw the pooch and let your probes expire... Adventures in Holes can be a very interesting time for all involved... But, you wouldn't know anything about that now would you? LOL TurAmarth ElRandir HBHI VP & Salvage Operations Director Fly Safe and see you in the Sky =/|)= http://turamarths-evelife.blogspot.com/ |
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AbsoluteHavoc
Hybrids of Steel
3
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 06:26:00 -
[201] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:Warwick Bentley wrote:In other words, to fix the trivial problem of probe loss by timer expiration required a change that became advertised as a feature. That it affects very useful and non-exploitative probe functionality doesn't seem to be an obstacle. I think the entire idea of recalling probes automatically was to address the loss of probes by people who don't know what they are doing. Those of us who have been long term subscribers are part of a niche of players who like hard games. So EVE now has a population of people who like hard games: all 300 thousand of us who live on the planet. To expand out of this niche, EVE has to cater to people who like the single-shard science fiction universe, but don't like hard games. The next stage of course is to remove probes as items in the game and just have the probe launcher always launch 8 probes. Then there's no need to recall probes to the ship for fear of losing them and stranding the player in unknown space. It's unfair to new players to cause them to feel loss. It's especially unfair to have regions of space which are easily accessible but very easy to get lost in. I wonder how many potential subscribers have been scared off because EVE was such a harsh universe to play in? We need to drop this fascination with EVE being a harsh, cold universe. We need to take better care of new players, and perhaps consider treating them with kid gloves from time to time, and picking up their toys for them when they forget to clean up after themselves.
GTFO |
TurAmarth ElRandir
Hiigaran Bounty Hunters Inc. Surely You're Joking
42
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 06:34:00 -
[202] - Quote
Zifrian wrote:When I hop through a wormhole in my Helios, I first uncloak, pop a probe to scan the sig for the wh I came through, then move off and drop a few more probes while I warp to a planet to set a safe, go to the safe, pop the rest of my probes and begin scanning after I cloak. If I get caught at any point, or chased, I then have to recall all my probes before jumping back through the wh or I lose them. I might even get caught in another wh without probes and get screwed.
Some may do it another way. That's the great thing about EVE. There are many ways to do the same thing.
But in the new system it's hop through, hit button to deploy all probes, cloak up. Someone comes after you, you hop back through the wh, auto return probes and go on your merry way. All the same.
So tell me, which system is more of a challenge? Which one is keeping with the spirit of EVE?
This, this and THIS! So much win... TurAmarth ElRandir HBHI VP & Salvage Operations Director Fly Safe and see you in the Sky =/|)= http://turamarths-evelife.blogspot.com/ |
Simon Severasse
Los Marginales
22
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Posted - 2013.05.29 06:46:00 -
[203] - Quote
-+Can we get some information on exact changes made to wormhole space? |
Securis Unus
Public Intoxication Public Indecency
7
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 07:03:00 -
[204] - Quote
Please allow us to save our own probe configuration.
Please fix it so the columns Distance, ID, Scan Group, Group, and Type can be adjusted in width instead of scaling with the whole scanner window. |
Drachiel
Mercury LLC
26
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 07:04:00 -
[205] - Quote
Keep "Unknown"
It makes finding wormholes much cooler. Though I guess by now technology will have advanced to recognize a trillion ISK industry |
AbsoluteHavoc
Hybrids of Steel
3
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 07:12:00 -
[206] - Quote
Athena Maldoran wrote:Oddyssey will be awsome, can't wait for launch. I've been on the testserver and doing some practising.
Think you meant to say practicing. Swirly red lines under a word mean you misspelled it, just letting ya know.
And what are you practicing for ? Even a child can do it. Even the current system isn't very complicated to use it's just a damn mini game that requires minimal intelligence to use and average to perfect/develop a custom technique that works best for you.
Thank you CCP for dumbing down the last bit of PVE ( and even PVP if combat probing is concerned) that required a bit of technique and encouraged you to find your way of doing things. How can you possibly take a system that works so well and has so many subtle nuances and just take a dump on it ? How can you ? Have you consulted a single player while deciding what to change ? As usual, course not.
Leave probes behind ? Now why would anyone ever do that... Be exposed for more/less time in a combat scanning situation based on how many probes you decide to launch ? Risk losing a faction probe launcher when your little pointy frig gets popped cause u wanted to have a bit more scan strength/deploy probes faster ? Have to be fast (if taking a freaking hour can even be called that) or you might lose your probes cause they don't last foreveeeer ? Have reasons to train skills ? No let's just give everybody everything at lvl 1. Could go on and on but you don't give a f&^* so I won't bother. The CSM was there and you didn't even bother to consult em.
Maybe you still can't get this through your heads but CASUAL OR EVEN AVERAGE GAMERS WILL NEVER PLAY EVE ! Doesn't matter how much you simplify things, they won't do it. Stop making everything for everybody EVE's good because it's not about that... A training system that has you wait ? A game that's a lil' bit about having fun and more about commitment, working hard and taking changes to the point where so people take it as seriously as they would matters IRL ? Having to read tutorials ???? ( and then go on to read guides for 50+ hours honestly/get external apps)
I just don't get you guys. Do you not realize most ppl can't be arsed to even read an entire line of tutorial text ? Just go and search "let's play" on Youtube and watch ppl go at it in some random games. Talking for 20 minutes about the subtleties between the Ice Comet that does 150dps for 3 seconds and Ice Blast that does 250 damage upfront and another 40dps for 4 seconds after that but has a half a sec delay. You already have a players base. One of the most committed and long lasting. How about you actually cater to them and continue to slowly expand the game/the playerbase as you have in the past? Hmm ?
Oh and just to end this mostly pointless post that serves no real purpose but to alleviate my frustration here's what is actually broken about probing. It's a bit too fiddly (mainly because it sometimes selects celestials when you're simply trying to move probes about) and the destroy probes button needs to be moved by a few pixels to the right/have an even bigger red ball on it. And if I were to nitpick make the minimum window size a bit smaller. Everything else works fine. F%*@s sake... |
Gwenywell Shumuku
30
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Posted - 2013.05.29 07:15:00 -
[207] - Quote
As many already stated i DISLIKE the "never lose your probes" and "removed DSP's". You are removing consequences and an aditional layer of gameplay (knowing how to use DSPs, and training for them as advanced probing).
It's like only PvEers did this changes and NO PvPer looked at this stuff....(pointing at the CSM....). I can't beleive you didn't see these problems during developement. |
Pak Narhoo
Splinter Foundation
973
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 07:24:00 -
[208] - Quote
So we already have indestructible cloths, now we get (unwanted) probes that auto-return themselves. What's next you may ask? How about ships that respawn in your hangar after they've exploded?
Looks like the old meme that goons are about to destroy EVE is true after all, one expansion at the time. Good job Soundwave & co. |
l0rd carlos
Friends Of Harassment
451
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 07:28:00 -
[209] - Quote
Roime wrote:l0rd carlos wrote: The barrier for entering gets lower, being good at it still takes the same skill.
Lol no. Barrier for entry remains exactly the same, being good was made easier. The skill changes + scanning modules + default probing layout makes is easier for a new player to learn how to probe. I would say that this qualifies for a lower barrier.
For specific other things i still want to use my other probe layout. German blog about smallscale lowsec pvp: http://friendsofharassment.wordpress.com |
Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
5108
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 07:34:00 -
[210] - Quote
Pak Narhoo wrote:So we already have indestructible cloths, now we get (unwanted) probes that auto-return themselves. What's next you may ask? How about ships that respawn in your hangar after they've exploded? Looks like the old meme that goons are about to destroy EVE is true after all, one expansion at the time. Good job Soundwave & co. Infinitely respawning free ships are already in the game and have propably been here since day 1. They even give you a free mineral as a bonus, so surely it is the reason EVE has been slowly dying since lauch. |
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