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Poll: Current Drone System OR the "Soon to come" one !

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 5 post(s)
Doin	Posted - 2005.11.03 02:12:00 - [1] Hello. One of the best thing about Eve is a Dev Team that actually listen to its comunity. It's a Dev Team that actually cares about the game and players more then profit (that is why Eve updates and expansions are free). So, why not simply state what you would prefer in the future, maybe Devs will listen to your wishes and do something in that direction: 1 - Current Drone system WITHOUT new drone content such as: sentry drones, webbing, etc. 2 - "Next Gen" drone system with a decreased number of controlled drone but more types of drones. I assume that the reduced number of controlled drones is needed if new types are to be added to the game. This is just because more ppl will start to use drones and thus server load will increase too. I dont want to start an argument about CCP should buy more servers and add to the current cluster because it is not me to discuss the financial policy of a company for whom i have a great respect as being the only game company that is offering free expansion and content to players. So, if adding more servers would solve the lag problem, i think CCP would do it. So please dont argue in this direction. Before i conclude this post there are 2 things that i consider important that must be looked into: a) now, at 70k subscribers you need to cut the drones controlled number to half to reduce lag. The question here is: what happens when you reach 200k subscribers and 30k PCU ? Will you need to reduce again the number of controled drones ? b) how will the upcomming changes effect T2 drones production ? Will you increase the production time of drones and material requirments accordingly so that the market will not be flooded ? Or reduce the number of planned T2 drones BPO to be released ? Conclusion, would you prefer only code optimization and hardware upgrade (2 of the 3 sides mentioned by Oveur in a dev blog) and keep the current drone system unaltered OR you would prefer to have new drone types (EWAR, sentries, etc) at the cost of fewer drones controlled per ship. Thanks to all who have the time and are willing to participate in this poll. ------------------------------------------------
Kyguard	Posted - 2005.11.03 02:14:00 - [2] Current imo -- God is on the side with the best artillery
Tido Maliyu	Posted - 2005.11.03 02:18:00 - [3] Imo, Current. Although the new drone types seem good, i better like the kewl l00k of 15 heavies orbitting u. -------------------------- Draximus Cane: wheat barley kill anything? are you oats of your mind? I corn belive you just said that, rice I'
Sadist	Posted - 2005.11.03 02:19:00 - [4] Edited by: Sadist on 03/11/2005 02:19:26 Current. Edit: with armor rep drones. --------------- VIP member of the [23] Sadist - harsh to the idiots, kind to the smart
Nata Tereshkova	Posted - 2005.11.03 02:26:00 - [5] New drone system. They said that this change alone will reduce server load by almost 50%. I think that's quite significant. Originally by: Dev Blog Drones take a lot of resources on the client and the server and although it may seem very little to some of you, doing this change alone actually reduces the resource usage by almost half. I think that's quite a lot ;) I'll miss having lots of little drones flying around my Vexor and Dominix, but it will be worth it if it reduces lag. Well, all I'm saying is the reduction of drone numbers is something they should do. Adding the other new content is optional. I'm looking forward to it though.
BlueSmok	Posted - 2005.11.03 02:34:00 - [6] I'll take what's behind door number 3 bob... *If you're not flying with Hippies, you're not having FUN.*
jamesw	Posted - 2005.11.03 02:35:00 - [7] NEW -- jamesw Rubra Libertas Militia NEW Vid: Bobbing for Xelas
Countess Amarisa	Posted - 2005.11.03 02:41:00 - [8] Curent!
Ethan Tomlinson	Posted - 2005.11.03 02:53:00 - [9] current drones are nice i say keep em
Mr Floppyknickers	Posted - 2005.11.03 03:08:00 - [10] Current system hands down. 15 drones fun, 5 drones (which anyone can get in 6 days) meh. Takes a big part of the "I'm a drone specialist" out of the equation. And now any ship that can field 5 heavies (125M3 bay) will be able to train up the same base damamge as a drone carrier had at 15 drones. New drones help those who don't rely on them, and despite boosts it will still be easier to neuter a drone ship that it was before. All the new drones do is give every non drone ship free Highs, mids, lows, and damage after a couple weeks of training. The only way to make it acceptable is to boost the dedicated carriers to compensate via a slot/stat bonus and/or ship bonus to control extra drones of the new types.
Sarrena	Posted - 2005.11.03 03:18:00 - [11] Current. New system comes in with a 5 cap, I vote with my dollar and go out.
Amerame	Posted - 2005.11.03 03:19:00 - [12] New, ok 15 drones would be fun, if you could actually control them effeciently, agreed it's a cheap fix, but in this case it's better to get a fix than keep using something broken. As for server load, I guess the main problem is NOT the number of players on the server, but the maximum number of players in an area, and especialy the number of players in a fleet battle, if this change does reduce lag in fleet battle by a factor 2, it's a huge improvement. I don't know how the max number of player in a fleet scale with the number of players online, but my guess is not linearly, so there's a hope this fix could get eve running a smoother a while.
Esrevatem Dlareme	Posted - 2005.11.03 03:21:00 - [13] I vote New. ______________________________________________ As I stand, dazzled by the shattered twilight, I think back... I think back to all the events that have brought me here. And I realize... I realize I was ment to come here. Someone wanted me to come here. And now, I have come here.
Caine	Posted - 2005.11.03 03:26:00 - [14] NEW 100%
Emaji Erivic	Posted - 2005.11.03 03:32:00 - [15] Edited by: Emaji Erivic on 03/11/2005 03:32:54 NEWNEWNEWNEWNEWNEW NEWNEWNEWNEWNEWNEW NEWNEWNEWNEWNEWNEW NEWNEWNEWNEWNEWNEW [Edit] had to fix my post because it expanded the whole thread lol
Clementina	Posted - 2005.11.03 03:38:00 - [16] Current. The new one promises 'drone specalists' 5 drones max, and nerfs the heck out of balanced ships like the dominix.
Razner Cerizo	Posted - 2005.11.03 03:50:00 - [17] I agree with the posted above. I will miss you, 14 heavy drones :( 5 just looks stupid. _____________ VHI - Frigate Specialists / Gankz0rs
Ampoliros	Posted - 2005.11.03 04:29:00 - [18] New. The drone changes are mostly cosmetic, unless you don't have interfacing 5 - and even at interfacing 4, BS5, you'll only lose out on half a drone. And, if you go the 20+ days to interfacing 5, you get all your damage back, not to mention new weapons to try. I wrote a whole long post, but suffice it to say - there are far more great things in this patch that compensate for...well, losing .5 drones if you don't have interfacing 5 (like me). ------------------------------------ Humbug !
Aeid Nomais	Posted - 2005.11.03 04:55:00 - [19] I do like seeing 15 drones in a cloud around me. I vote: Current.
Linavin	Posted - 2005.11.03 05:25:00 - [20] Current
Rychek	Posted - 2005.11.03 05:29:00 - [21] Why vote before we test the new system out? And anyone saying keep the current one...I hope you HAVE tested out the new one. otherwise I vote: world is flat, leeches cure cancer, and the sun revolves around the earth.
Noriath	Posted - 2005.11.03 05:48:00 - [22] Current And we have to stop it now, because once its in it will be way harder to get rid of it again.
Sobeseki Pawi	Posted - 2005.11.03 06:12:00 - [23] The new system by far. Sofar most of the opponents of it just don't understand it. Or are clinging to the 'OMG15 drones at once'...which is a bit silly. ~Captain Cutie, HFS Event Horizon Biomass fears me. Sovereignty 2.0
Vishnej	Posted - 2005.11.03 06:21:00 - [24] Current, plus the new drones at half the current stats per drone. T2 Destroyers: a proposal Requested Changes: An alphabet's worth
keepiru	Posted - 2005.11.03 06:28:00 - [25] New. ------------- Where are the named 800mm Plates and Mega Ions, CCP?
twit brent	Posted - 2005.11.03 06:35:00 - [26] I would have to say new system easily. I am gallente and love my drones but i also dont like lag in fleets. 15 drones going arround your ship would look kooler but i am sick of drones getting stuck ect. Also i would love to get some nice new drone skills.
Sub'Zero	Posted - 2005.11.03 06:48:00 - [27] new
Farjung	Posted - 2005.11.03 06:49:00 - [28] Let's see it on sisi first -_-
Squid Lord	Posted - 2005.11.03 06:53:00 - [29] Current. If the new 5 cap comes, My money will go elsewhere. Period. I pay to Play. CCP needs to pay to upgrade the server. Whats going to get nerfed the next time the server gets laggy??
Tripoli	Posted - 2005.11.03 06:56:00 - [30] New. ---
Hugh Ruka	Posted - 2005.11.03 07:04:00 - [31] NEW I hate the changes that are done to the damage dealing drones, but I like the other utility drones. ------------------------------ If stupidity could bloom, these forums would be all flowers ...
LWMaverick	Posted - 2005.11.03 07:04:00 - [32] Well... "Current" BUT if it really reduce the lag significant, i say lets go for it... But on the other hand, a Dominix/vexor/isthar/and so on with only 5 drones?!... "You GOT to be kidding RIGHT?" /Mav With great power, comes great responsibility.
Espen	Posted - 2005.11.03 07:44:00 - [33] I use drone ships like Ishtar alot, and I'll vote for new.
dalman	Posted - 2005.11.03 07:50:00 - [34] New, hands down. Drink up, shoot in. Let the beating begin. Distributor of pain. Your loss becomes my gain...
Nihn Lemai	Posted - 2005.11.03 08:34:00 - [35] I want the new systems. All my arguments are stated in the dev blog so there isnt really any point of posting them here to. So... well... yeah
Hobblin I	Posted - 2005.11.03 08:37:00 - [36] 1. Current
Alex Harumichi	Posted - 2005.11.03 08:43:00 - [37] Well, after reading the second drone devlog, if I had to choose I'd cautiously lean toward the new one. I still have concerns about the Dominix getting less benefit from the new system than other battleships do, but I'm willing to give it a try.
Kaell Meynn	Posted - 2005.11.03 09:33:00 - [38] I'm a Dominix pilot, so... Current.
Porro	Posted - 2005.11.03 09:38:00 - [39] New, but I dislike the idea of ewar/stasis drones. Also nothing bad is happening to the dominix you get 3 waves of drones and the same power as before. Unless your mining in it, then you lose 5 mining drones worth of yield, thats about the only nerf?
Shirer Aprenon	Posted - 2005.11.03 09:39:00 - [40] New, because I like new things and obviously, learning to use the new system quicker than those that can't is to my advantage! Also, this game gets a bit dull and things like this liven it up a bit. ------------------ Dad (noun) - someone who's wallet now contains a picture where his money once was.
Grimwalius d'Antan	Posted - 2005.11.03 10:00:00 - [41] I absolutely wholeheartedly vote for the new drones, because I really hate the current system. I am an Ishkur, Vexor and Dominix pilot (Ishtar isn't happening anytime soon though) Vote: 2
TuRtLe HeAd	Posted - 2005.11.03 10:03:00 - [42] Current. Dominix, Typhoon, Ishtar, Thorax, Vexor, Armageddon Will all look a joke with 5 drones coming out of them. (Yes we need the new drones but we dont need less drones) Introduce the new Specialization drones and only allow one in flight at a time, with the other drones. NOT gimp us all with 5 Drones ------------------------------------------------ "Its not Feasible to Dismiss an Idea because of lag"
Balthamael	Posted - 2005.11.03 10:06:00 - [43] New! "The GM might tell you to jam it where the drives don't warp" drunkenmaster
Eyeshadow	Posted - 2005.11.03 10:11:00 - [44] Edited by: Eyeshadow on 03/11/2005 10:11:40 Originally by: Mr Floppyknickers Current system hands down. 15 drones fun, 5 drones (which anyone can get in 6 days) meh. Takes a big part of the "I'm a drone specialist" out of the equation. And now any ship that can field 5 heavies (125M3 bay) will be able to train up the same base damamge as a drone carrier had at 15 drones. New drones help those who don't rely on them, and despite boosts it will still be easier to neuter a drone ship that it was before. All the new drones do is give every non drone ship free Highs, mids, lows, and damage after a couple weeks of training. The only way to make it acceptable is to boost the dedicated carriers to compensate via a slot/stat bonus and/or ship bonus to control extra drones of the new types. Somebody hasnt read the dev blog. No ship will give you the same output as a dominix/ishtar/vexor or any other drone ship due to the 10% drone dmg PER LEVEL. Thats 50% more dmg than any other ship Not to mention the fact that the dominix can now field 3 waves of heavy drones, instead of 2, and the Ishtar can field 3 complete waves of heavy drones (with HAC 5) instead of 1 and 5 reserves. With the changing of the thermal dmg to drone damage (which was my main problem with the original change) this has actually turned into a boost for those who rely heavily on drones (im an ishtar/domi pilot myself) and a bit of a nerf to those that dont specialise in it. 15 Drones was l33t, agreed, but they were hard to control. With the new system they become a lot easier to look after. Not to mention a SBing BS is no longer such a large threat, though a smart pilot who will take out ya drones will be. All in all, i like it. More skills to train but if i get more speed out my drones, more dmg, more survivability and more flexibility in what i can use and field then afaik, its a good idea. Not to mention the reduction in server load My Latest Vid: Linky
TuRtLe HeAd	Posted - 2005.11.03 10:12:00 - [45] And easier to kill. No matter how much HPs you give them, 5 Targets are easier to take down than 15.
Espen	Posted - 2005.11.03 10:18:00 - [46] Originally by: TuRtLe HeAd And easier to kill. No matter how much HPs you give them, 5 Targets are easier to take down than 15. Is that the only reason you don't like it? It seems more like a big boost to the drones ships then nerf.
Miklas Laces	Posted - 2005.11.03 10:35:00 - [47] I really like the proposed changes, my vote is NEW. And people who prefer the current system didn't come up with a single valid point yet.
Roxanne	Posted - 2005.11.03 10:40:00 - [48] I would say new system, but after some testing and tweaking. They introduce new balance problems which should be solved before they go live. Right now, drones are a joke. You need few SPs to field them, they are buggy and many use them to create lag. Under the new system, dedicated drone user get more toys (skills and modules) that will seperate them from the casual drone user. Their drones will be faster and tougher and deal more damage. Depending on how CCP implements these modules and skills this might be a great boost to those who specialise in drones. Hello Mr. Domi pilot with maxed out drone skills and activated drone support modules... you look scary... And people, these threats of "if they do this I will quit" are childish... If these changes are this bothersome to you, how about testing them on SiSi and giving real feedback instead of half reading the blog and crying about falling skies?
Jim Steele	Posted - 2005.11.03 10:49:00 - [49] New, Drones will do more damage and be more survivable and dom pilots will be able to have more spares, so a big thumbs up Also, lets not forget the new drone types, its debatable if the changes will cause less lag however since more people will be using drones after the patch for e/war tanking etc. But i can see that these changes are absolutely nessasary in order to facilitate the new dronetypes Also now, mabye my T2 drones will pop less which is good for everyone (except the bpo holders ) Real men, play Rugby
akrotor	Posted - 2005.11.03 10:58:00 - [50] CURENT
Fi T'Zeh	Posted - 2005.11.03 11:17:00 - [51] new .... ps. POST WITH YOUR MAIN
Grim Vandal	Posted - 2005.11.03 11:22:00 - [52] new Greetings Grim
Jaketh Ivanes	Posted - 2005.11.03 11:31:00 - [53] New please.
Cloue	Posted - 2005.11.03 11:37:00 - [54] current
Alitha Maru	Posted - 2005.11.03 11:41:00 - [55] Current system, hands down.
Fester Addams	Posted - 2005.11.03 11:41:00 - [56] I have some issues with the new non combat drones but providing they are balanced and implemented well I would go with the new. Ie new. That said I cant say I would not miss having 9 drones to launch, for me not much will change unless some dronebay size changes shaft me but I do agree with the people that think 5 drones simply arent all that impressive. ------------ 20. Is it true all pvpers have carebear alts? Yes, of course. I have so much fun looking up who's alt is who's kieron Community Manager, EVE Online
K'thang	Posted - 2005.11.03 11:52:00 - [57] Current system, yeah.
Irashi	Posted - 2005.11.03 12:09:00 - [58] It's a bit pointless to ask whether you prefer a system that you have only read about or a system you've used and grown accustomed to after all this time. If someone wrote out all the pros and cons of the curret system and compared them with the proposed system, putting aside your natural fear of change and disregarding how 'cool' a load of drones looks spewing out of the Thorax's battleship sized dronebay, which would you seriously go for? __________________________________________________
kveldulfson	Posted - 2005.11.03 12:29:00 - [59] I would stay for the CURRENT system and ask CCP to go for option 3 fix the code and hardware issues, as has been stated here and elsewhere this is a short term fix and not a true solution to the issues. I would love to see new drone types appear as well, but not at the cost of the proposed Nerf, which will have to be followed by another Nerf to something else. CCP fix the code and hardware!! 19.95 euros / month x 70,000 = 1,396,500 or $1,683,808.63 a month!! I say that gives you ample oportunity to resolve this with code optimisation and hardware!!
Steven Dynahir	Posted - 2005.11.03 12:46:00 - [60] Current --- SigPl/HQ&Log Coy/MNB(C)/KFOR
lythos miralbar	Posted - 2005.11.03 12:50:00 - [61] Actualy I like the new drone system. Theres is going to be pretty much NO difference in dammage output for any ship at the moment, and the drone carriers are going to have a big advantage over the non drone specific ships (drone carrier drones will do up tp 50% more dammage). Then on top of this we get some damm nice ew type drones. An I'd of though all the missile users would be glad to. Just pack in a mixture of webbing/painting drones and now you might get some decent dammage on high speed orbiting frigs with missiles. CCP FTW !!! \O/
Blind Man	Posted - 2005.11.03 12:53:00 - [62] New one...
Zeddicus Zu'l	Posted - 2005.11.03 14:00:00 - [63] I saw new one. As for the desire for pro and cons of both systems, here is a start at making one: Old system: Pros - 1 - that cool look of 10 to 15 drones suddenly appearing 2 - no required to have drone interfacing 5 to achieve max damage from a ship that can not hold 10 or more drones. Cons - 1 - Lots of lag because the server and the client have to track and update every single drone when they are deployed New System: Pros - 1 - Less lag from fewer drones having to be tracked. removing the lets get 4 drone ships to the gate with all drones out so that enemy lags as soon as they jump in and we can kill them before they can do anything. 2 - with the right skills, there is no damage reduction on any ship 3 - New drones and new drone skill making drone even more versitile 4 - New drone modules to further affect drones 5 - more hitpoints on drones making each individual drone a little harder to kill. Cons - 1 - required to train Drone interfacing 5 to get same damage output from before patch (most drone specialists prolly have this so they can launch 15 drones anyways) 2 - fewer drones meaning there are less drones ot have to target and worry about from one ship (multiple drone ships still produce too many drones to target all at once). 3 - losses the "cool" factor of dropping 10 to 15 drones from one ship.
epic113	Posted - 2005.11.03 14:07:00 - [64] current. it doesnt mean a thing about any new drones coming in as drone ships will NEVER be able to use them while only being able to launch 5 drones. or do you really think its fair a dom has to drop 1/5 of his dps to use a new drone while other ships get to use them and keep there main set ups? geddon gate camp with sentry drones anyone? or worse full gank geddon with ew
Rex Martell	Posted - 2005.11.03 14:08:00 - [65] NEW But dedicated drone carriers need more of an edge . "The object of war is not to die for your corp, but to make the other b@##@#d die for his"
hired goon	Posted - 2005.11.03 14:12:00 - [66] New innit blud, get me. Standard. -omg-
Dukath	Posted - 2005.11.03 15:58:00 - [67] current hands down. I don't think a lot of people realise the impact of having 5 drones in stead of 15. Let me give you a hint. 6 launcher -> 2 launchers but missiles do 3 times as much damage and give launchers more ammo to carry (ala 3 waves of drones). Then give your opponents 2 launchers with defenders or a decent smartbomb. You see how much easier it is to negate your damage now?
Zeddicus Zu'l	Posted - 2005.11.03 16:05:00 - [68] Originally by: Dukath current hands down. I don't think a lot of people realise the impact of having 5 drones in stead of 15. Let me give you a hint. 6 launcher -> 2 launchers but missiles do 3 times as much damage and give launchers more ammo to carry (ala 3 waves of drones). Then give your opponents 2 launchers with defenders or a decent smartbomb. You see how much easier it is to negate your damage now? but to continue to follow the analagy you have to up the hitpoints of all the missiles meaning it now takes 2 twice the defenders to kill the same missile (ie - you need 2 defenders to get ride of a light missile instead of just one, and 4 defenders to pop a torpedo instead of 2)
CargoCult	Posted - 2005.11.03 16:18:00 - [69] new -------------------------------------------------- All the right letters, just not nescacarily in the right order - morcam and wise Its not working sir! Well thump it then
stummer	Posted - 2005.11.03 17:23:00 - [70] current system
Goberth Ludwig	Posted - 2005.11.03 17:24:00 - [71] New It will make the BS better against HACs and frigs, tho it will penalize a bit too much those HACs and cruisers that do not have a dronebay imo. - Gob (also known as Admiral Goberius)
000Hunter000	Posted - 2005.11.03 17:30:00 - [72] Well new... but with 1 exception, let the raven be able to fit atleast 5 heavy drones, otherwise ravenpilots will get a 2nd blow to their ability to whack smaller targets.
Santiac	Posted - 2005.11.03 17:53:00 - [73] i'll have to say current. The aesthetics are simply too important for me to negate the decreased lag. And on a sidenote, i can see why these changes are being implemented, and that i am perfectly fine with, both balance and skills, but as i've already said, the aesthetics of the game are already suffering. The issue for me isn't whether or not a dominix will drop in force or power, but that it won't be as fearsome (aestheticly) to be attacked by one. Aesthetics aside, to draw an analogy of how else i view the changes, wouldn't it be considered pointless to limit all ships to a total of 4 turrets, the only difference being how much ammo an apoc or mega could carry compared to a tempest or dominix, and what grade of turrets they could possibly fit. - might be flawed but it gives an idea of how i view these changes :) ________________________________________ <insert clever/witty comment here>
Twisted One	Posted - 2005.11.03 17:54:00 - [74] Edited by: Twisted One on 03/11/2005 17:57:57 From a purely combat point of view I think the new system will open up alot of new options for drone pilots, and in general I dont see it as a nerf at all. I wish people would read the dev blog and realise 3 'new' drones put out the same damage as 6 'old' drones However, I vote for the current system. Why? - Well every time I see a domi release a swarm of 13+ drones my jaw drops in wonder..'Wooohhhh!'. The damn devs are taking away that single pleasure I get every time I fly my Dominix. And contrary to popular belief this IS a valid point, I do not want to lose the atmosphere (for want of a better word) that swarm provides me with when Im immersed in game. T1. P.S. Santiac above has the point exactly and asthetically I see this is a MAJOR nerf. Battle Angels Kills
Derrys	Posted - 2005.11.03 18:03:00 - [75] Originally by: Twisted One The damn devs are taking away that single pleasure I get every time I fly my Dominix. And contrary to popular belief this IS a valid point, I do not want to lose the atmosphere (for want of a better word) that swarm provides me with when Im immersed in game. I think you're ignoring the new aesthetic effect: people will see a Dominix launch its five drones, and they'll say, "Oh ****, those are Domi drones!" With the new system, no one will know offhand how powerful any given drone is, since it depends on the parent ship and the pilot's skill. That's an element of surprise and fear you didn't have before.
Longasc	Posted - 2005.11.03 18:27:00 - [76] CURRENT Not that i would say its great or perfect. Changes are necessary and welcome. The currently suggested changes are not very convincing, parts are good, but for the most part they suck.
Longasc	Posted - 2005.11.03 18:29:00 - [77] Jaws will drop in awe when they behold a massive 5 drone swarm. This was sarcasm. :)
HankMurphy	Posted - 2005.11.03 18:39:00 - [78] CURRENT
Irashi	Posted - 2005.11.03 18:40:00 - [79] I know! Perfect solution: Change the drone models so that one drone looks like 3 drones flying in formation. You look cool with your apparant horde of drones while the server's dealing with fewer actual drones. Now everyone's happy __________________________________________________
Santiac	Posted - 2005.11.03 19:14:00 - [80] Edited by: Santiac on 03/11/2005 19:16:46 Originally by: Derrys I think you're ignoring the new aesthetic effect: people will see a Dominix launch its five drones, and they'll say, "Oh **, those are Domi drones!" I'm sorry, but i think you are missing our point. The problem isn't the impressiveness or fearsomeness of the lethality of the new drones, it's the visual intimidation they give ground for when in a swarm of 15 drones, instead of 5. To draw another analogy, you could say that torpedoes would still be fearsome if they had increased damage, physically, but would it be just as intimidating to see the explosion blast reverberate far out from the point of impact visually? To me this game is more then number crunching, and while the numbers are fine, and just as intimadating as they were before, the visual intimidation of most weaponry are, i'm sad to say, rather stale. Would you have enjoyed the battles in any epic war film (say LOTR) just as much, as if there were only 1/3 of the original amount of warriors involved in the scenes, that weren't bigger or more intimadating visually then what they were before? :) (Sidenote: yeah i'm aware my analogies might not be perfect, but if they clearify my point they have done what they were supposed to :)) [EDIT] Originally by:** Irashi I know! Perfect solution: Change the drone models so that one drone looks like 3 drones flying in formation. You look cool with your apparant horde of drones while the server's dealing with fewer actual drones. Now everyone's happy you know, that's actually not that bad a proposition :) but it would still not be the same, seeing as you would still have to zoom in on target/mothership to see the 3 models for 1 drone, unless they added 3 crosshairs to each group aswell of course. :) [/EDIT] ________________________________________ <insert clever/witty comment here>
TotensBurntCorpse	Posted - 2005.11.03 20:02:00 - [81] Edited by: TotensBurntCorpse on 03/11/2005 20:03:25 New - with a provisor If the drop in drones is for server lagg then why not get rid of other crap on the servers first rather than make more game changes wrt to play. such as anchored cans in illegal places (aka cans in >0.7 sec) spread out agents more move some base functions to spread them out more I agree with comments above, if this is a lagg fix for now then how does it affect lagg in less populated systems, CUZ TBH I have YET to see a 40+ ship battle occur in high sec empire. Not saying they dont occur but a complete over write of drones to reduce lagg for multiship battles is a bit over the top. There has to be as above junk crap discards illegal objects etc that can be nuked from the data base to reduce the number of objects in a system to reduce lagg. You will never make me believe that 40 pilots with on average 9 drones ie 360 objects in a fleet battle is more of a server loading than 200 ppl in a high use system with missions being ran, stuff being built, and some combats occuring... so why not just nuke the crap out there then SEE how the server loading looks. OHHH BTW I for one dont believe for a sec that carriers will only have 5 drones, not unless each drone is the effectiveness of an assault frigate. (I expect carriers to field 10+ drones) TotensBurntCorpse Likes EVE, Starfleet Command Series, Earth & Beyond, Anything Battlefield, MOHAA, Call of Duty. Dislikes Not much.
O'Sirius	Posted - 2005.11.03 20:16:00 - [82] Current
Joshua Foiritain	Posted - 2005.11.03 21:16:00 - [83] New, since itll make drones and Drone carriers better. ------------------ [Coreli Corporation Mainframe]
Esrevatem Dlareme	Posted - 2005.11.03 21:20:00 - [84] Originally by: Santiac [...]I'm sorry, but i think you are missing our point. The problem isn't the impressiveness or fearsomeness of the lethality of the new drones, it's the visual intimidation they give ground for when in a swarm of 15 drones, instead of 5. Leaving the domi as intimadating, visually, as any other ship launching 5 drones. :) To draw another analogy, you could say that torpedoes would still be fearsome if they had increased damage, physically. But would it be just as intimidating to see, visually, if the explosion blast that reverberates far out from the point of impact, was gone?[...] Yeah...and if you put fins on your ships, they look more imposing and enemies will believe you are capable of more damage and will be more likely to run away. (Anyone remember that episode of Voyager when they were designing the Alpha Flyer?) Also, if you put an R-Type sticker on your ship, you go faster. Seriously tho, I suppose looks are important to some people, and to take them away would considerably lower the amt of fun they have. I just happen to think that game balance and functionality should take a higher priority. ____________________________________ Stats so far: New - 38 votes Current - 31 votes Sun Revolves Around the Earth - 1 vote I won't proclaim that these are absolutely accurate, I did a quick count that was highly prone to error. But it does give the indication that the community is fairly split over the issue... ______________________________________________ As I stand, dazzled by the shattered twilight, I think back... I think back to all the events that have brought me here. And I realize... I realize I was ment to come here. Someone wanted me to come here. And now, I have come here.
Ecnav	Posted - 2005.11.03 21:29:00 - [85] this is absolulutley poinitless, the new drone changes havent even come out on TQ yet. Give it a chance
Luc Boye	Posted - 2005.11.03 21:42:00 - [86] Any of the two, as long as: 1.) they make a decent UI for drones, the current one sucks (takes up space from overview). 2.) they fix the damn bug with drone sex and "return to drone bay" stuff. After 2.5 years of eve, this bug has gotten REALLY OLD.
Luc Boye	Posted - 2005.11.03 21:44:00 - [87] Originally by: 000Hunter000 Well new... but with 1 exception, let the raven be able to fit atleast 5 heavy drones, otherwise ravenpilots will get a 2nd blow to their ability to whack smaller targets. Yeh and let domi fit siege launchers and give them proper bonuses for it.
Lansfear	Posted - 2005.11.03 21:59:00 - [88] With 3m+ skill points in drones, I vote for new. Fear my Ogre II's. Have to remember, even though we only get 5, my 5 compaired to a 2 week old characters 5 are completely different. Mine will do near +200% damage. New system all the way. Drone specialization will mean something now.
Dimitri Forgroth	Posted - 2005.11.03 22:06:00 - [89] New, all the way. DPS Sheet
Arleonenis	Posted - 2005.11.03 22:08:00 - [90] current, five drones dont look that nice as drone swarm, and if i need to pay with lag for it... let be it
Oneyeking	Posted - 2005.11.03 22:15:00 - [91] CURRENT
Paradox Eve	Posted - 2005.11.03 22:15:00 - [92] New [By "New" I dont mean I support every new drone and statistic, as that will require testing, I just mean I support the general idea.]
Kager o	Posted - 2005.11.03 22:21:00 - [93] Edited by: Kager o on 03/11/2005 22:21:48 Anyone voting for the current system obviously has not warped or undocked into 30 plus hostile drones in a pvp situation. The lag created by only a small percentage of these drones is enough to realize a change to the number of drones is a REQUIRED one, even if there must be sacrifices to the overall gaming system along the way. FPS literally goes down to <30 down from 100+ even while running a more then complient computer with cable connection is definite proof of this. Even if you think a swarm of drones looks awesome yourself, Lag does not look cool to me. Currently with the proposed changes on the table provided by the devs, it's a win/win situation for everyone, especially drone users themselves, in both PVP and PVE situations. Less drones, less loss of money in lost drones, more "waves" of sustainable and equal or MORE dps for all drone ships and hardier drones to combat smart bomb users. Anyone fighting these changes better look at the hill they are about to start running back up. Friend or Foe.....theres still a toll
Derrys	Posted - 2005.11.03 22:51:00 - [94] Edited by: Derrys on 03/11/2005 22:53:27 Originally by: Santiac I'm sorry, but i think you are missing our point. The problem isn't the impressiveness or fearsomeness of the lethality of the new drones, it's the visual intimidation they give ground for when in a swarm of 15 drones, instead of 5. Leaving the domi as intimadating, visually, as any other ship launching 5 drones. :) Which, as I said, can be an advantage in itself. Either people will learn to fear Domi drones more than others, or they won't. If they do, then the intimidation is still there and your point is moot. If they don't...well, then they are underestimating you and you can take advantage of that fact to catch them off guard.
Shinca	Posted - 2005.11.03 22:52:00 - [95] new ----------------------------- (\_/) (X.x) (> <) WTB cookbook with bunny recipes
AlexCA	Posted - 2005.11.03 23:04:00 - [96] new
Corto Maltese	Posted - 2005.11.03 23:10:00 - [97] I'd say the new AMOUNT, just not the new features. A gank setup BS with dampening/other EWAR drones will just be rediculous. BUT I do think it is necessary to reduce the number of drones.
Megadon	Posted - 2005.11.03 23:48:00 - [98] #2 In with the NEW and OUT with the OLD.
BaD PaPPa	Posted - 2005.11.04 01:46:00 - [99] current The new one needs a little more planning and tweaking by devs. I for onr have never been for changing a ship bonus's or a skill after it has been rolled out other than minor tweaks
Mo Steel	Posted - 2005.11.04 02:07:00 - [100] New. Same output of damage plus better server stability plus less lag plus less drones all over = win.
Zefran Cochran	Posted - 2005.11.04 02:20:00 - [101] I say stick with Current. If the new system comes in I suggest you make those 5 drones like mini-frigates otherwise they will be useless. Smartbomb 4tw
Weirda	Posted - 2005.11.04 02:27:00 - [102] New -- Thread Killer (attempt to train verbosity from 4 back down to 1 -- failed) <END TRANSMISSION>
Lilja	Posted - 2005.11.04 07:05:00 - [103] Current 4tw! And yeah, clean up space ffs. There are cans all over.
Eyeshadow	Posted - 2005.11.04 12:23:00 - [104] Originally by: Zefran Cochran I say stick with Current. If the new system comes in I suggest you make those 5 drones like mini-frigates otherwise they will be useless. Smartbomb 4tw Please read the devblogs. Drones will have 2/2.5 times the hitpoints they currently have, making them LESS succeptible to smartbombs than they are now My Latest Vid: Linky
Nekhad Jormuzzar	Posted - 2005.11.04 12:25:00 - [105] Neither.
Shadow Vice	Posted - 2005.11.04 12:47:00 - [106] new And did noone read the drone support module that will incresce the orbitdidtance/optimal range of drones out of smartbomb range anyone also about gank ships with ewar combat with bore ewar 5 tracking distruper drones ftw (btw got car with max t1 drone skills and fly gallente not a nearf it opens up a whole new world for us)
dantes inferno	Posted - 2005.11.04 12:57:00 - [107] now the gallente racial bonus is gone i would say new...but on the other hand this does feel like a bit of a cop out on CCP's part. this will reduce lag which is good...but it sets a bad precdent..what happens when the subscibers and poeple online go up as it has been to around 30k and we get the same lag we have now....what will CCP "boost" that time to compencate? Right changes...wrong reasons IMO _____
Bsport	Posted - 2005.11.04 13:01:00 - [108] Current However drone system switching to a control point system combat drones 1 control point giving u a max of 15, sentry drones 4 control points etc --------
Santiac	Posted - 2005.11.04 13:21:00 - [109] Originally by: Derrys Edited by: Derrys on 03/11/2005 22:53:27 Originally by: Santiac I'm sorry, but i think you are missing our point. The problem isn't the impressiveness or fearsomeness of the lethality of the new drones, it's the visual intimidation they give ground for when in a swarm of 15 drones, instead of 5. Leaving the domi as intimadating, visually, as any other ship launching 5 drones. :) Which, as I said, can be an advantage in itself. Either people will learn to fear Domi drones more than others, or they won't. If they do, then the intimidation is still there and your point is moot. If they don't...well, then they are underestimating you and you can take advantage of that fact to catch them off guard. Again, i'm not talking about advantages or disadvantages of the system, i'm not talking about the drones capabilities of lethality, of course someone would fear domi-drones more then thorax-drones, just like people would fear a torp wielding raven more then a torp wielding megathron (for the sake of it, lets say they both could use the same amount of launchers). My point is, that the visual effects will not be as intimdating. Torpedoes would not hold the same visual intimidation without the blast. Imo these changes - while obviously needed, i'm not disputing that, - are like removing the blast from torps and replacing them with that of rockets. While they would keep the same statistics, making them just as intimidating as they were before, statistically, they would become visually less intimdating then before. :) ________________________________________ <insert clever/witty comment here>
Alpdruck	Posted - 2005.11.04 13:29:00 - [110] Originally by: Santiac My point is, that the visual effects will not be as intimdating. Torpedoes would not hold the same visual intimidation without the blast. There are people who get intimidated by torpedo blasts?
Derrys	Posted - 2005.11.04 15:06:00 - [111] Originally by: Santiac My point is, that the visual effects will not be as intimdating. Torpedoes would not hold the same visual intimidation without the blast. Imo these changes - while obviously needed, i'm not disputing that, - are like removing the blast from torps and replacing them with that of rockets. I think you put too much emphasis on the visuals. Psychological intimidation and uncertainty are much more effective than just having a bunch of icons on the screen.
raistalin	Posted - 2005.11.04 15:30:00 - [112] Current. New drone content was not largely asked for at expense of nerf imo. I don't want more skills to train anyway, just better gameplay. And I didn't see anything wrong with drones except for lag.
Santiac	Posted - 2005.11.04 15:39:00 - [113] granted, perhaps intimidation was the wrong choice of word. :) I'm simply more concerned with the atmosphere, which to me depends not only on potential and effectiveness, but also on the visual effects of things. :) ________________________________________ <insert clever/witty comment here>
Ghoest	Posted - 2005.11.04 16:50:00 - [114] New one
K4tKeb4b	Posted - 2005.11.04 17:02:00 - [115] CURRENT. I dont like the idear of seeing/flying an ishtar/domi ect with 5 drones. Regardless to whether the do the same damage as 15 with max skills. Changing skills that people have trained for a specific reason REALLY sucks. Quite alot of peopls forget to deploy drones as it is atm, they wont be with the new system. Whats next for the nerf nos??
Ploplop Fizzfizz	Posted - 2005.11.04 17:22:00 - [116] New system all the way. It delivers a lot and will (hopefully) clear up a lot of drone management frustration. iirc I didn't start seeing flaky drone activities until I hit 7. It's needed an overhaul for a very long time, so this will be great for the game.
Sangxianc	Posted - 2005.11.04 17:33:00 - [117] Edited by: Sangxianc on 04/11/2005 17:33:38 The only thing that still upsets me about the new one is how an Ishtar or Dominix using supprt drones will be no better than any other ship using them. - Do not deny yourself experience of that which lies beyond, behind the sun, in the world they call unpeopled.
Justice Bringer	Posted - 2005.11.04 17:39:00 - [118] I like my 15 drones from my Ishtar and Vexor, but I do understand the need to make changes. If the new changes go ahead, then the term Drone Carriers will be a misnomer and should be removed from the whole item database as there will no longer be any such ship in EVE, except the Moros?!?!? Or is that being smacked down from 35 drones to 5 also??? As one poster has already stated, what will happen if the player base goes up to 200k? How will CCP deal with that if at least 50 - 60% will be using drones. Will drones soon become obsolete entirely as the servers won't be able to cope?? I say go with the change to aleviate the server burden, but I still would like to keep my drones..... Confused?? Yeah, me too.... Justice
Kaeten	Posted - 2005.11.04 18:17:00 - [119] new I'm not paying for this fecking game if nothing new comes in. I might aswell play cs if I want that. Latest Video: In memory of The Sioux
Kyguard	Posted - 2005.11.04 18:28:00 - [120] Current. -- God is on the side with the best artillery
Trader Klyde	Posted - 2005.11.04 19:00:00 - [121] Mixed feelings atm... I like the versatility I currently have with my Dom. I carry 43 drones of different sizes and damages to do the job needed. I'm going to miss all that drone space, and the versatility to go with it. I would go for the new changes if sig radius was looked into also, as I think it may be worthwhile to kill the drones after the changes with only 5 in space at a time. Once you kill the first wave and reserves the drone boat is in trouble big-time. Maybe there is a middle ground that can be met so that drone boats still have an advantage using drones over the other ships that out-damage them if neither uses drones. Sig radius reduction and leaving drone bays alone would go a long way in that regard... maybe too far, dunno. ________________________________________________ From deep in space where nobody hears my screams... Sometimes in fear, sometimes in anger, mostly just my singing style.
Gabriel Kain	Posted - 2005.11.04 19:05:00 - [122] Current. Drones need love, scooping 15 heavies is a pain because of drone ai and lag, but i just love the sight of them, and 5 drones with triple damage aren't going to be the same.
Tharandar	Posted - 2005.11.04 22:32:00 - [123] New.
Olivin	Posted - 2005.11.04 23:20:00 - [124] Current.
VossKarr	Posted - 2005.11.05 00:02:00 - [125] Originally by: Sobeseki Pawi The new system by far. Sofar most of the opponents of it just don't understand it. Or are clinging to the 'OMG15 drones at once'...which is a bit silly. You hit the nail on the head right there! NEW drone system all the way!
DigitalCommunist	Posted - 2005.11.05 00:06:00 - [126] New. Perpetually driven, your end is our beginning.
Spaja Saist	Posted - 2005.11.05 00:26:00 - [127] Current!!! Its there a reason we can't have current drone system with new drones? Devs stop nerfing the **** out of this game.
Olivin	Posted - 2005.11.05 00:45:00 - [128] Originally by: VossKarr Originally by: Sobeseki Pawi The new system by far. Sofar most of the opponents of it just don't understand it. Or are clinging to the 'OMG15 drones at once'...which is a bit silly. You hit the nail on the head right there! NEW drone system all the way! 1. Five drones from the Domi look sick, sad and not cool at all. 15 drones in the air it's important factor, at least for me and it's have nothing to do with damage calculations. It's actually pain in the ass to control them and/or loose them when you wrap out. Yes, 5 drones will be more easy to manage and less expensive to loose and perhaps they will do pretty much the same job as 15, but this is besides the point. Let me put this way: how you like if devs will remove missiles visual effects or instead of 5 turrets you will have one but with much increased damage output? Point is: it's not cool. 2. Taranis with webby drones will be way overpowered and I'm pretty sure that there are many other ships wich need be to look at. 3. It will be easier to kill 5 drones than 15. Amount of drones hp is somewhat irrelevant here. And with nerfed dronebays you can't have a spare waves. 4. Sentry drones is the gate/belt camper/ganker dream and I can smell the abuse here. 8. Logistic drones is the encouragement of ganking setups. Why fit the armor repper when you can just carry one logistic drone with you? Olivin
Zhop	Posted - 2005.11.05 02:04:00 - [129] Keep the current... No other reason to have a dominix than drones...
Kusotarre	Posted - 2005.11.05 03:08:00 - [130] New. I've made a topic, even, about how I think the large webber drones will possibly eliminate interceptors from the BS-tackling game, but in fleet battles, drones exist for one reason: lag whoever is jumping in. That kind of crap has to be stopped, even if it means I have to train minmatar cruiser lvl5 to get a good tackler again.
Kusotarre	Posted - 2005.11.05 03:16:00 - [131] Originally by: Olivin Originally by: VossKarr Originally by: Sobeseki Pawi The new system by far. Sofar most of the opponents of it just don't understand it. Or are clinging to the 'OMG15 drones at once'...which is a bit silly. You hit the nail on the head right there! NEW drone system all the way! 1. Five drones from the Domi look sick, sad and not cool at all. 15 drones in the air it's important factor, at least for me and it's have nothing to do with damage calculations. It's actually pain in the ass to control them and/or loose them when you wrap out. Yes, 5 drones will be more easy to manage and less expensive to loose and perhaps they will do pretty much the same job as 15, but this is besides the point. Let me put this way: how you like if devs will remove missiles visual effects or instead of 5 turrets you will have one but with much increased damage output? Point is: it's not cool. 2. Taranis with webby drones will be way overpowered and I'm pretty sure that there are many other ships wich need be to look at. 3. It will be easier to kill 5 drones than 15. Amount of drones hp is somewhat irrelevant here. And with nerfed dronebays you can't have a spare waves. 4. Sentry drones is the gate/belt camper/ganker dream and I can smell the abuse here. 8. Logistic drones is the encouragement of ganking setups. Why fit the armor repper when you can just carry one logistic drone with you? Olivin You're completely wrong. 1) Whatever, it's a wow factor. It's perhaps better for the dominix and ishtar with new system, as it will allow the enemy to misunderestimate you more, if they're noobs. 2) Taranis will be stronger, but due to weakness of light drones, it won't be overpoweringly so. 3) No, it's not easier to kill them. They have much more hitpoints. Further, halving the drone bay allows more waves of drones, not less. Right now, Domi has 2 waves. In the future, it will have 3 waves. Ishtar now has 1.33 waves with max HAC skill... In the future, it will have two or more. 4) Abuse? They have to be anchored. Free drones for me one I kill the campers. 8) No. Most people fit an offline remote armor repper in their free high slot, if they have one. I have one on my wolf right now. Many people fit them on armageddons in hostile territory. This really isn't so much of an issue.
KilROCK	Posted - 2005.11.05 03:27:00 - [132] I'm going for Current. If they don't release ewar drones, then New. I don't see how you nerf an old system because the new drones you add will be overpowered.. Deimos with 10 medium ewar drones, that could be scary.. I think when it comes to tech 2 drones, i'd rather lose 3 volley of heavy drones instead of going empty on one mistake. So you have, 5 heavy drones, that are faster than current one, pack a punch comparable to 10 heavy drones right now and have more hp... You save isk, you dish out damage and you get more skills to specialise... If i didn't have a damage bonus to use drones, i'd just pack in 5 Ewar drones and throw them at frigs... I guess that's what will happen.. So final verdict for me. Current - If ewar drones come out. New - If they don't.
Spenz	Posted - 2005.11.05 04:23:00 - [133] Edited by: Spenz on 05/11/2005 04:24:46 Edited by: Spenz on 05/11/2005 04:23:32 Current. Lots of the new drone supporters dont realize that you need full skills in order to get the SAME damage that you did before. Any less and your doing less damage than the current system. Its a nerf. Plain and simple. Anyone with half a cell up in the noggin realizes that its a nerf UNLESS you spend 8 mil skillpoints and months training the skills just to bring your damage back up to what it was pre-nerf. Also its easier to kill 5 drones then it is to kill 15 no matter how buffed they are (targeting 5 ftw), and all drone carriers cannot use the new drones without losing a good portion of their firepower (extra waves be damned if they die faster who cares about extra waves). Also more drones will be used with these new gank drones such as EWAR and Sentry drones, so in effect the server will suffer from MORE lag because more people will be using drones (especially in fleet battles). Of course gankers and gate-campers are rewarded with their lovely sentry and webber drones. The whole idea is stupid. You dont need to play it on the test server to realize how half-assed and poorly-planned this whole idea is.
Olivin	Posted - 2005.11.05 05:09:00 - [134] Originally by: Kusotarre You're completely wrong. I don't think so. Originally by: Kusotarre 1) Whatever, it's a wow factor. It's perhaps better for the dominix and ishtar with new system, as it will allow the enemy to misunderestimate you more, if they're noobs. I am not following you. Leaving the fact that devs want us to stick with one damage type, under the current system enemy always underestimates me, under new system they will know that I will stick with one or two damage types because of the nerfed drone bay. And if you are refering to the new types of drones, then sorry to burst your bubble, but Domi has perfect layout for the EW and NOS, and it won't matter if you swap your NOS for guns and use NOS drones or whatever. Originally by: Kusotarre 2) Taranis will be stronger, but due to weakness of light drones, it won't be overpoweringly so. Taranis is already very strong. It's probably best interceptor in game and the last thing I want is to hear whining of "omg taranis overpowered with it's webby drones" which will ultimately result in another nerf. Originally by: Kusotarre 3) No, it's not easier to kill them. They have much more hitpoints. Further, halving the drone bay allows more waves of drones, not less. Right now, Domi has 2 waves. In the future, it will have 3 waves. Ishtar now has 1.33 waves with max HAC skill... In the future, it will have two or more. You wrong. It doesn't matter if they have more hp. You need to find, lock, web and shoot each individual drone. I prefer to deal with 2-5 strong drones than with 10-15 somewhat weaker drones. And right now, my Domi has 4 waves of different types/size of drones: 15 X light drones 15 X heavy drones 15 X medium drones1 15 X medium drones2 which gives me great flexibility, of what drones I am using, how I group my waves and so on. But 5 heavy drones in the air and 10 in reserve, just not kick in. Originally by: Kusotarre 4) Abuse? They have to be anchored. Free drones for me one I kill the campers. Yeah. Like 30 of them around the gate. Sniper at 100km and tank on the gate. Go kill the drones. Originally by: Kusotarre 8) No. Most people fit an offline remote armor repper in their free high slot, if they have one. I have one on my wolf right now. Many people fit them on armageddons in hostile territory. This really isn't so much of an issue. Would you prefer to fit extra range/damage module or perhaps wc instead of the offline repper, since you know that you can have repper in your drone bay? Olivin
Kirex	Posted - 2005.11.05 05:19:00 - [135] Current New Gankagedon: gank setup drones: 5 rep. drones overkill Im going to quote Nerco Scuro from the "Tuxford and the Amazing Drone Calculations Dev Blog" Quote: It's still a nerf to drone ships, no matter how you spin it. They may have the same damage, but only if you have max skills. Anything less and you have diminishing returns on damage. They also, no matter what ship with what skills, have less hitpoints. Making them easier to both target and actually kill. Not to mention the drone specialist ships can't use the new specialist drones. Doesn't that seem odd to you? If I have 5 drones on my Dom, for example, I have to give up 1/5 of my firepower for every specialist drone I use, which I'm obviously not going to do. Whereas a Geddon can keep it's DPS at near 100%, giving up it's minimal drone damage to be able to nos/jam/web/tank/whatever. I personally could stand these changes if there was something imbalanced with drones. But there isn't. They're very nicely balanced. You're doing it to cut down on lag, compromising game quality so that you can save money by not buying some more goddamn servers. Which is, TBFH, pathetic.
wierchas noobhunter	Posted - 2005.11.05 10:53:00 - [136] new
Farjung	Posted - 2005.11.05 11:31:00 - [137] Originally by: Olivin And right now, my Domi has 4 waves of different types/size of drones: 15 X light drones 15 X heavy drones 15 X medium drones1 15 X medium drones2 which gives me great flexibility, of what drones I am using, how I group my waves and so on. Pre-patch: Total dronebay: 750 15 * light = 75 30 * medium = 300 15 * heavy = 375 Total: 750 Post-patch: Total dronebay: 375 5 * light = 25 10 * medium = 100 5 * heavy = 125 Total: 250 Giving you 125 spare for extra waves...
Roxanne	Posted - 2005.11.05 12:12:00 - [138] Originally by: Olivin 1. Five drones from the Domi look sick, sad and not cool at all. 15 drones in the air it's important factor, at least for me and it's have nothing to do with damage calculations. It's actually pain in the ass to control them and/or loose them when you wrap out. Yes, 5 drones will be more easy to manage and less expensive to loose and perhaps they will do pretty much the same job as 15, but this is besides the point. Let me put this way: how you like if devs will remove missiles visual effects or instead of 5 turrets you will have one but with much increased damage output? Point is: it's not cool. Gameplay over coolness any day of the week. I switch turrets and effects off anyway, cause it might reduce lag a little Originally by: Olivin 2. Taranis with webby drones will be way overpowered and I'm pretty sure that there are many other ships wich need be to look at. Two light webby drones or one medium? I am not sure if they will make such a difference, given their stats. Originally by: Olivin 3. It will be easier to kill 5 drones than 15. Amount of drones hp is somewhat irrelevant here. And with nerfed dronebays you can't have a spare waves. Your drones can also go faster (new skills) which makes them more difficult to kill. Also, you have more spares. And they deal longer damage until they die, so your drop in DPS is not like with 15 now. Originally by: Olivin 4. Sentry drones is the gate/belt camper/ganker dream and I can smell the abuse here. Could be. But close range gankers could use current drones anyway and snipers are always aligned and prepared to flee and thus leave the drones behind. And the normal drone control ranges apply, so setting the drones up might not as easy as you make it seem. Originally by: Olivin 8. Logistic drones is the encouragement of ganking setups. Why fit the armor repper when you can just carry one logistic drone with you? Because of stacking penalty changes. Check them out, knowing about all the changes and not just a few gives a better picture. Gank ships will not mount 8 modules of the same type anymore. Groups use remote armor repairers anyway, so the effect is not that big.
TarianH	Posted - 2005.11.05 14:33:00 - [139] Current. A swarm of drones both looks cool (remember - games can be fun as well as just being about numbers) and, as mentioned, the health of '7.5' drones. Not to mention the diminishing-returns of anything short of Interfacing 5...
Phlaago Rexor	Posted - 2005.11.05 14:43:00 - [140] current Drone skills are low down on my training queue, the new system will just mean i have to max out the drone skills to be able to get the same damage since I will have half the number of drones. Web drones should never make their way into the game in any form, thats a gamebreaker as far as I see it.
Khadur	Posted - 2005.11.05 16:02:00 - [141] Current
Ti anna	Posted - 2005.11.05 18:01:00 - [142] Well, I finally decide to vote. Its obvious that the adherents of the new drone changes are not looking at the deeper aspects, but trying to explain color to the blind, even if it is self imposed blindness, is not possible. Current, hands down.
Tirfing	Posted - 2005.11.05 18:11:00 - [143] NEW I think we all need a little change
Aenigma	Posted - 2005.11.05 18:16:00 - [144] New as well.
Dreez	Posted - 2005.11.05 18:30:00 - [145] Current. I might have ATUKO in my tag, but i have OC in my DNA
Invictus Sol	Posted - 2005.11.05 18:58:00 - [146] I wouldnt mind the changes as much if the drone hud interface were made to compensate. i.e. sending out waves of drones, or pulling a few back in while in a difficult engagement (excluding lag/fps loss factors) is simply retarded to keep track as I would liketo keep track. If we have to sacrafice numbers, make it easier (more intuitive) to manage the constant waves of 5. 5 means to me more micro management. I dont have much experience, still a noob - so current or new has no significant change in the way I play now. Just my .02isk. Invictus
Sin Angel	Posted - 2005.11.05 18:59:00 - [147] Current /me wubs seeing 15 drones fly from my ship too much to see it go
Sobeseki Pawi	Posted - 2005.11.05 19:00:00 - [148] Originally by: Ti anna Its obvious that the adherents of the new drone changes are not looking at the deeper aspects You are welcome to provide the first good argument for keeping drones as they are. ~Captain Cutie, HFS Event Horizon Biomass fears me. Sovereignty 2.0
Ti anna	Posted - 2005.11.05 20:02:00 - [149] Edited by: Ti anna on 05/11/2005 20:03:19 I said I prefered them as they are, not that they should be kept as they are. There are many things that need to be resolved yet that the current changes as outlined do not address. Do you realize that a single CRUISER can eliminate the entire compliment of drones (not kill, just keep them from being able to fight at all) from the DREADNAUGHT drone carrier after these changes? Jamming, is just one thing they did not look at. I outlined more in a reply on the 5th page of the second blog. There are more things that need reviewed before this drastic of a change should be attempted.
Olivin	Posted - 2005.11.05 20:40:00 - [150] Originally by: Roxanne Originally by: Olivin 1. Five drones from the Domi look sick, sad and not cool at all. 15 drones in the air it's important factor, at least for me and it's have nothing to do with damage calculations. It's actually pain in the ass to control them and/or loose them when you wrap out. Yes, 5 drones will be more easy to manage and less expensive to loose and perhaps they will do pretty much the same job as 15, but this is besides the point. Let me put this way: how you like if devs will remove missiles visual effects or instead of 5 turrets you will have one but with much increased damage output? Point is: it's not cool. Gameplay over coolness any day of the week. I switch turrets and effects off anyway, cause it might reduce lag a little Thats's your problem, but hardware and connectivity requirements for this game defiantly suggests that coolness must be there and it's big part of experience. And according to this thread (and many others), it's also important for many other players. Originally by: Roxanne Originally by: Olivin 2. Taranis with webby drones will be way overpowered and I'm pretty sure that there are many other ships wich need be to look at. Two light webby drones or one medium? I am not sure if they will make such a difference, given their stats. Every little helps. At the moment, 3 small combat drones not that bigger deal because of their pathetic damage, but if I can swap them for the support (like logistics, ew or webby) drones and use freed slots, pg and cpu for the extra offence, my Taranis will be overpowered. Originally by: Roxanne Originally by: Olivin 3. It will be easier to kill 5 drones than 15. Amount of drones hp is somewhat irrelevant here. And with nerfed dronebays you can't have a spare waves. Your drones can also go faster (new skills) which makes them more difficult to kill. Also, you have more spares. And they deal longer damage until they die, so your drop in DPS is not like with 15 now. Please, don't try to butter the nerf. And no, I don't have more spares. Devs pathetic attempt to call for new 3 waves instead of two ignoring the fact that my current 2 waves contains 30 drones and 3 new waves will hold 15 drones. I have greater flexibility with 30 drones than with 15, in terms of grouping, decoys, sizes and so on. Originally by: Roxanne Originally by: Olivin 8. Logistic drones is the encouragement of ganking setups. Why fit the armor repper when you can just carry one logistic drone with you? Because of stacking penalty changes. Check them out, knowing about all the changes and not just a few gives a better picture. Gank ships will not mount 8 modules of the same type anymore. Groups use remote armor repairers anyway, so the effect is not that big. I know about them, but what you missing here is that drones don't have a stacking penalty. But hey, how about the following solution: Let's support devs crusade against lag and remove drone bays from all ships apart of dedicated drone carriers. Perhaps give some selected ships ability to carry and launch one drone. I will be happy with new system then. Olivin
Ranger 1	Posted - 2005.11.05 20:58:00 - [151] Edited by: Ranger 1 on 05/11/2005 21:03:15 New. Hands down. Some of us HAVE looked at the deeper game play issues. So far the overwhelming majority don't want the new change because they like the "look" of having 15 icons on thier screen. Oooookaaay. Perhaps we can take a page from the dev's and how they handled stations and simply increase the viewable size of the drones on screen (making them easier to see) to keep these folk happy. Other than that the only people objecting to the new system have made it obvious in their comments that they either have no understanding of how the new system works... no understanding of how the CURRENT system works (LOL)... or are people that are looking at one particular aspect of the proposed changes without taking into account the other changes that will come in at the same time that nullify the problem they are pointing out. As far as 5 drones being easier to kill. This is a fallicy. The fact is it will take longer for a smart bomb user to kill a full flight of the new drones than it currently does. And while yes, it will take less time to target 5 drones and fire on them it will take slightly longer to kill each individual drone AND the drone carrier pilots will be able to immediatly launch ONE of their new FULL reserve flights. The result, the individual drone targeter will still take as long to kill ALL of the drone carriers payload of drones. And yes, you clever guys that bring along a variety of drone sizes for flexibility will also end up with far more drone flights to play with... thus increasing those advantages even more. I also disagree that drone carriers will not be able to use the new drone types. They will be able to have their nasty damage drones, but reserve flights of the new types in their bay. Thus allowing them to pick and choose which type would be most advantageous to use based on the current circumstances. Get over the "CCP is copping out" garbage as well. This is not THE fix to lag, it is a necessary PART of the fix to lag. One component, not the whole plan. Read the dev blog on lag before you comment please. I'll have to see how the balancing works out of course, as should we all, but the new system is VASTLY improved over the old. And also serves to make drone specialists (especially in the right ships) much more flexible, unique, and dangerous than they are now.
Ti anna	Posted - 2005.11.05 23:36:00 - [152] Originally by: Ranger 1 Edited by: Ranger 1 on 05/11/2005 21:03:15 New. Hands down. Some of us HAVE looked at the deeper game play issues. So far the overwhelming majority don't want the new change because they like the "look" of having 15 icons on thier screen. Oooookaaay.... . So, you HAVE looked deeper and you think it is ok that a SINGLE cruiser can completely eliminate a DRONE CARRIER DREADNAUGHT's Drones from a fight, easily? Yes, a SINGLE cruiser.... I guess people see what they want to see.
Aeleva	Posted - 2005.11.05 23:41:00 - [153] NEW all the way. Read the goddamned dev blog people.
Ranger 1	Posted - 2005.11.05 23:55:00 - [154] Originally by: Ti anna Originally by: Ranger 1 Edited by: Ranger 1 on 05/11/2005 21:03:15 New. Hands down. Some of us HAVE looked at the deeper game play issues. So far the overwhelming majority don't want the new change because they like the "look" of having 15 icons on thier screen. Oooookaaay.... . So, you HAVE looked deeper and you think it is ok that a SINGLE cruiser can completely eliminate a DRONE CARRIER DREADNAUGHT's Drones from a fight, easily? Yes, a SINGLE cruiser.... I guess people see what they want to see. You DO see that Dreads are currently bugged, don't you? You DO see that the testing and tweaking for specific cases hasn't begun yet don't you? You DO see that your one example has little to do with the system as a whole? I see you need your eye's checked.
Ti anna	Posted - 2005.11.05 23:58:00 - [155] Edited by: Ti anna on 06/11/2005 00:01:11 Fine, you want to say dreads are invalid. The same goes for the Domi. A single cruiser could not jam 15 drones, but it can easily jam 5. Still don't see it? and you call me blind... lol P.S. Not even a BS could jam 15 drones, not enough slots for it, but 5 on the other hand? Jamming is only ONE thing that has not been resolved, nay it hasn't even been addressed! Keep believing what you want to believe. I, a CALDARI railing against a NERF of the Gallente give up. Let blindness reign.
danneh	Posted - 2005.11.06 00:00:00 - [156] New.
Esrevatem Dlareme	Posted - 2005.11.06 03:17:00 - [157] Originally by: Ti anna Edited by: Ti anna on 06/11/2005 00:01:11 Fine, you want to say dreads are invalid. The same goes for the Domi. A single cruiser could not jam 15 drones, but it can easily jam 5. Still don't see it? and you call me blind... lol P.S. Not even a BS could jam 15 drones, not enough slots for it, but 5 on the other hand? Jamming is only ONE thing that has not been resolved, nay it hasn't even been addressed! Keep believing what you want to believe. I, a CALDARI railing against a NERF of the Gallente give up. Let blindness reign. Well. The Moros' drones get pretty huge bonuses, such that they're supposed to be exactly the same dmg as the number of drones it can control now, and Tux has also said they'll be getting some sort of large hp boost specifically for the Moros to compensate as well. Let's say a Moros only had it's Dreadnought skill at lvl 4. Each of it's heavy combat drones will do the same dmg as 6 heavy drones currently. So if you fail to jam just 2 drones for 1 cycle, it's really going to hurt. If it becomes too easy to target jam player drones, they'll simply increase thier sensor strengths, or perhaps, they'll base their sensor strength's off the controller ship (which is how it should really be from an RP standpoint). So yes, perhaps it'll be to easy for a cruiser to jam the drones of a Moros with the changes as they are, but that can be fixed. This is really something you should be discussing in the actual drone thread tho. ______________________________________________ As I stand, dazzled by the shattered twilight, I think back... I think back to all the events that have brought me here. And I realize... I realize I was ment to come here. Someone wanted me to come here. And now, I have come here.
Siri Danae	Posted - 2005.11.06 19:42:00 - [158] Its an unfair proposal. Forcing the drone users to sacrifice their playstyle to fix hardware problems is improper. Gallente ship users are being asked to sacrifice far more more than anyone else in this patch. ------ I generally assume the following: 1. 95% of Empire Carebears don't get 0.0 PVPers. 2. 95% of 0.0 PVPers don't get Empire Carebears. 3. 100% of Ore Thieves steal just to upset the Miners.
Aldrick Highwind	Posted - 2005.11.07 06:02:00 - [159] The only thing about the new system I don't like is the decrease in the drone bay size. It seems to be just to nerf everyone by making them be able to carry less drones and a less variety of drones. Also I don't see how decreasing the size of the drone bay affects lag or anything else so why do it other than to nerf the ships that already have small drone bays.
Cilppiz	Posted - 2005.11.07 06:21:00 - [160] Edited by: Cilppiz on 07/11/2005 06:22:54 I want to see the new one first, but anyway since it looks like the overall DPS and HP of the drones isnt going to chance can see why having only max 5 drones would hurt anyone.
NoLock LetsNegociate	Posted - 2005.11.07 07:25:00 - [161] New
Noriath	Posted - 2005.11.07 08:05:00 - [162] Edited by: Noriath on 07/11/2005 08:09:16 I would like to see an entire different system, just reducing lag causing drones from 10 to 5 and then introducing dronetypes that are usefull for every situation is stupid IMO. For one it's not really an elegant solution to the problem, yea, fewer drones will cause less lag, but that doesn't change the fact that they still do. Think people trying to lag you out with drones will be stopped because they can only launch 5 drones per ship instead of 10? Quite on the contrary, with sentry drones in this kind of thing will even be further encouraged... And also it just makes droneships even more stupid and unbelievable, like the drone size change already did... I mean let's look at what we're talking about here. A ship that is a kilometer long (I believe a Dominix is roughly 700m long, an apoc close to a mile even...), has thousands of crew, a gigantic arsenal of weapons, and can just launch 5 tiny fighters? Has anyone ever given some thought to how tiny 25m¦ are? A room with a 5x5 meter footprint that is roughly 3 meters high will already hold three times that. Am I to believe that I can type on the eve boards from a bedroom that could theoretically contain 3 heavy combat drones that can blow a kilometer long interstellar battleship to hell? Am I to believe that said battleship doesn't have enough room on board to hold a hundret times as many drones as my bedroom could? Ridiculous!
Rede	Posted - 2005.11.07 09:13:00 - [163] New. Even I'm pretty new to EVE and a while ago I got my first Dominix to fly. Many drones are fun, but as I just see lot's of crosses somewhere around screen doesn't make really that big impression. And top of that handling bunch of drones is pretty hard since they tend to split up if you let them go by themselves. I mainly do PvE, sometimes (due the mean people who wants to terminate me for unknown reasons) PvP. Most annoying things are then when on belt you have to wait until all rats are firing you before launching drones or otherwise your drones are gone. In PvP drones generate nice lag, specially when there is loads of them flying around. New drones gives lot of versatility - very lot. Currently when you see drones in combat you know that they only do one thing - try to shoot you. New drones makes lot of options - are those little crosses coming to jam me? Shoot me? Try to relieve me from my full cap problem? Or just slow me down a bit? Lot of choices, some are "better" options than others but you never know...
Leneerra	Posted - 2005.11.07 09:43:00 - [164] Indeed new drones give versatilety. in the old system in ships with small dronebays the skill interfacing gave versatility the abillith to field 9 or 10 undersized drones or to actually launch (more off) the drones you could carry What they now change is that that skill no longer gives versatility. It just dictates how well you do damage with the old dronetypes It is like introducing new ammo types for a gun, but using those new ammo types you get zero benefit from your current gunnery and turret skills. That is why so many are complaining. forcing someone that normaly flies a ship that can field 6 drones, so he learned drone interfacing to 1 needing no more, now he can field 3 with a 1.2 modefier (so 3.6 drones). To get back to where he was he needs to train a rank 5 skill to level 5. that is more than a month of training just to get where he was, that is insane. Of course for the lesser trained people there is a alternative. They just sacrefice 1 drone (1.2 damage) to field a new ew-type drone. for that same swap a high skilled drone ship pilot has to trade in the damage equivalent of 3 drones. Is that fair? I see the need to reduce the amount of drones but this way it is a farce and a slap in the face of every drone specialist out there. I suggest a slightly different method, look at how the industry skill and mass production skills are set, make drone skill and drone interfacing the same have drone skill give you the use of 1 drone and have it add to drone efficiency for every level. have drone interfacing do what it does now (giving at skill 5 a total of 6 drones) And yes, I know this is a very steep learning curve for a beginning drone user, but at least it leaves the advantage in drone use with the higher skilled characters, and not with people that hardly bothered to train it. At least share the pain of this gameplay nerf honestly and equally
Hellspawn666	Posted - 2005.11.07 10:47:00 - [165] I would sayt the new system is far better nad i fly alot of drone ships. Why do you want to keep everything the same in this game, shaking things up a bit is what makes it interesting. Also people seem to havge this misconception that lag is directly caused by lag of funding for upgrades... now have you thought that possibly that it isnt caused by that and the only way to fix it is to redesign certain systems. A few less drnes will stop fleets saying "there jumping in realease all drones " and just lagging the whole thing out, it will still lag but not half as much its a small price to pay. Would be nice to see drones a bit larger thou since theres less of em, wouldnt cause anymore lag really if you made them bigger so they look more like little ships.
Kanuo Ashkeron	Posted - 2005.11.07 11:40:00 - [166] I like the NEW one. New toys and less lag. 4tw
Leneerra	Posted - 2005.11.07 11:50:00 - [167] As can be made up by my posts, I am not happy, but i understand the necessety. The changes will happen, all we can do is influence HOW the changes will ake plase.
Atinia	Posted - 2005.11.09 09:41:00 - [168] Current, really.
Red lensman	Posted - 2005.11.11 17:03:00 - [169] the main problem i see with the the new drone system is the fine tuning you get with 15 drones as you can play with the damage type to a very fine detail and with just 5 drones and all the new types you will be taking the fine control away :( current
Kresko	Posted - 2005.11.11 19:20:00 - [170] New

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