I think it's a good idea, as long as I am allowed to park at the district satellite and indiscriminately fire upon DUST bunnies.

The idea is that you as a player would be able to hire a Dust corp to defend your POCO or to take over POCO's and enforce a new tax rate , without starving your renters.

The other side of the coin is at the same token Eve players can take over a POCO held by a Dust Corp and there is nothing much they can do except to hire some Eve pilots do defend their structure. I think this would really mix up interaction between Dust and Eve on a ground level ...space level what ever level.

I don't think the latter idea can work, unless the income levels in dust are overhauled entirely. Vast majority of EVE players would be in a position where the peanuts that the dustbunnies can offer in such contract would be completely meaningless and that way the interaction just wouldn't happen. Otherway around maybe.

Have to agree with you , BUT There is many ways to barter " I rub your back and you rub mine". There is a mine field of opportunity in this lol

The idea is that you as a player would be able to hire a Dust corp to defend your POCO or to take over POCO's and enforce a new tax rate , without starving your renters.

The big wrinkle in all of that? It's objective play, in a market that doesn't operate like that.

Just try to get FPS players to go after objectives in a match. As a game itself, good luck, I think every publisher would like to see that happen, as they created hundreds of millions worth of content and can't get them to do it...even if they're MMO inclined (e.g., WoW's BGs come to mind here).

FPS games it's about K/D and accuracy. Objectives second (and treated more as an annoyance).

That's cool and all, but I still want to be able to link up with the satellite and rain indiscriminate death down on the immortal ants that play on the ground. Perhaps it will dissuade them from trying to bite the hands that feed them.

I have no problem with indiscriminate fire against dusties.

Just so long as the dusties can fire themselves in boarding torpedoes at you ship, get a chance to fight thier way through the internal defences. Then, if they succeed, drag you paniced self from the pod, before a swift yet brutal summary execution to your face with a plasma shotgun.

The idea is that you as a player would be able to hire a Dust corp to defend your POCO or to take over POCO's and enforce a new tax rate , without starving your renters.

The other side of the coin is at the same token Eve players can take over a POCO held by a Dust Corp and there is nothing much they can do except to hire some Eve pilots do defend their structure. I think this would really mix up interaction between Dust and Eve on a ground level ...space level what ever level.

I think internal levels for dust might suck a bit - what if instead the pocos shields where linked to a ground based shield emitter? That way the attacking team had to take out that, in order for the space ships to actually blow it up.

I think internal levels for dust might suck a bit - what if instead the pocos shields where linked to a ground based shield emitter? That way the attacking team had to take out that, in order for the space ships to actually blow it up.

I can forsee somthing like this happening if this were implimented, i like it.

If a Dust player can directly influence something like attacking a POCO from a planet, i want to directly be able to defend it by firing back, without requiring 3rd party (dust bunnies) help to do so.

I see your reasoning behind hiring a dust merc team to defend it, but that works two ways.
Why can't a dust merc team hire an EvE corp (or even join an alliance) to take the poco in eve for them.

I just dont like the idea of something that i own, being totally taken out of my control and relyant on another game.

The planet shield emitter should only harden the poco shields, not make it indestructible.

Also, if you want to bash the poco, and you hire dusties. Who's supposed to defend it, and how long do you have to respond with your own dust defense team?

That's cool and all, but I still want to be able to link up with the satellite and rain indiscriminate death down on the immortal ants that play on the ground. Perhaps it will dissuade them from trying to bite the hands that feed them.

There are no ISK transfers yet between Dust and Eve, so this is false.

The idea is that you as a player would be able to hire a Dust corp to defend your POCO or to take over POCO's and enforce a new tax rate , without starving your renters.

The other side of the coin is at the same token Eve players can take over a POCO held by a Dust Corp and there is nothing much they can do except to hire some Eve pilots do defend their structure. I think this would really mix up interaction between Dust and Eve on a ground level ...space level what ever level.

How does a dust corporation get a POCO setup under their banner?

How would a dust corporation take a POCO? Destroy it or capture it?

If capture, is anything implemented to allow a ground type assault on a space station like that?

If they do have the ability to fire on space targets, can they hit moons and such? (i.e. put POS's at risk too)

It seems a tad one sided if they can pot-shot POCO's but can't be stopped nor risk anything on their end (owning a POCO).

This sounds more like a lulz excuse to allow ground pounders to blow up POCO's at will and not like any type of interaction gig. I don't know... I don't understand enough about how they work together to make a clean decision on such a topic so please do explain a bit more.

[quote=Mocam][quote=Captain Africa] ...


Just posted a whole damn sop ....and didnt copy it . Il try again ....

Thanks. I am interested in it - a link works if you have one.

I'd rather they just introduce those ground-to-orbit deathbeams they have in the trailers. Then the DUST mercs can just, y'know, shoot the POCO's like we do. No need for different mechanics.

Just take the whole orbital bombardment mechanic and turn it on its head, with an EVE player target painting the in-space target. (Using existing target painter, or maybe new module.)

meh... give 'em some earnings potential as a carrot and the ability to flip-flop a POCO sounds lot more interesting than just pop a box floating in space. If it's cheaper to hire a batch of mercs if you lose a POCO this way - vs putting another up... It could prove more "interactive".

It's an interesting idea he put forward - just the defense sides seem a tad lacking.

I just wonder at the lore in Dust that says CONCORD is sacrosanct. EVE? They have "world killer" firepower to mess with space ships but Dust? ... What does stop dusties from being able to mess with CONCORD POCO's in some fashion?

It's an interesting idea and I can see the potential but I think it needs a bit of work. My opinion on this of course.

There is no defense by the assaulted party against their fixed asset - until after they have lost control of it. This needs addressing.

I frowned at the idea of planetary bombardment without dusties having the ability to defend themselves against it. I also frown at the idea of a reversal of this situation which seems to be what is proposed here. You gain no notification nor ability to defend your property until after you have lost control of it...

Someone who is attacked (their property at least) should gain notification and/or the ability to defend against such an attack as soon as possible and they should have the ability to defend themselves - hiring as an option works but not as the only means to hold onto your property. Having to hire after a loss to recover assets works. Hiring as the only option to regain a valuable asset is not so good.

That said the idea of this "intermediary" (between space and the planet) asset potentially being threatened from either/both sides does have potential. It just needs some way for both sides to be able to defend the property and not turn an EVE construct and asset into a Dust play-thing -- nor vice verse with dust based assets by EVE players.

See if a balance point can be reached - it's a good spot to pick for a "closer to EVE" side of interaction but, again, both sides should be more balanced on their ability to defend their property so if they did manage to take it, blowing it up would need a type of defense.

Yes I can see them hiring EVE players to handle that side if they don't have the ability to build it on their own (they stole it but can't defend it... that can work) but it would be best if they could defend it from EVE players if they managed to take it.

Again, just my thoughts on the topic.

+1 and bump.

I believe the basic idea has a lot of merit. So long as balance issues are taken into consideration (for instance, EVE players could bombard the POCO attacking Dust players) then I think it would create additional conflict drivers, as well further intergrating both games.

From a Dust perspective there is a lot of support for this https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=83672&find=unread


I would like to know what Eve players think about this and if you would support this to bring Dust and Eve interaction to a new level.


SO LETS POKE THE POCO AND MAKE THIS HAPPEN ....If you believe this could work and want CCP to implement this ASAP then bump +1 to this thread ..

POCO MECHANICS THE WAY I SEE IT :

POCO Mechanics Ver 2

X Dust Corporation decides to get into POCO ownership as a business venture. So their leadership views their star map and identify potential POCOS to take over.
They identify your POCO and as a squad spawn to the MMC covering the planet where your POCO is anchored.

Reinforcing The POCO:

The X Dust Corporation then wait for the timer in the MMC and spawn into a transport ship. The transport ship piloted by an Eve player undocs from the MMC and transports the Mercs to the POCO. A few things regarding this :

a.Since it is in a player owned POCO it will be in shoot able space. During this stage of the operation the Mercs in the transport ship are pretty vulnerable. They could have more Eve pilots protecting them against hostile enemy ships while doing the trip.
b.The Transport Ship docks onto the POCO , the Mercs hack the front gate and enter the installation.

The Mercs need to kill off the M-Tac Mecs and dismantle explosives and mines defending the installation, then hack a few mechanics which brings the POCO into reinforcement mode. The elimination of these Mecs and booby traps should be a challenge in itself.
The Mercs also deploys a specialized drop up link in order to spawn to the POCO when the reinforcement timer runs out before the match begins. Obviously this would be a specialized drop up link tool .

X Dust Corp goes back to MMC and wait for timer to run out. The timer can be anything from a few hours to less than two days. You as the owner sets the timer before the time.

Initially Defending The POCO From Reinforcement:

The owner of the POCO has a limited amount of specialized M- TAC Mecs with Drone AI available to guard your installation:
They come in three sizes divided in 4 races

Example: Minmatar M-Tac Mecs
Small GÇô Scouts = Light Auto cannon , Sniper Gun
Medium GÇô Attack = Medium Auto Cannon with Mass Driver
Heavy GÇô Guard = Heavy Auto Cannon with Blaster

The owner may also make use of explosive booby traps and mines placing them at strategic points within the POCO station.
These M-Tac Mecs and booby traps are available on the Eve market and get deployed by the owner by means of a map ingame mechanic where he can deploy them in strategic areas. Remember were talking one map here so Devs relax.

POCO Now In Reinforcement Mode:

The owner (You ) gets notified via mail that your POKO has been put into reinforcement mode.
The POCO still belongs to the owner but now accessible to the attacking Mercs . Because it was hacked from the inside you as the owner can only defend it from the inside, that means you have to hire another Dust corp via contract. So you initiate a contract to defend your POCO for a fee.

The Final Battle For Ownership and Results

Some Y Dust Corp accepts your contract , Both Corps spawn to the MMC when the timer runs out and then from the MMC to the POCO station where they would initiate the match. At this stage there are no more AI Defences left and none can be deployed by the owner of the POCO.
During the match no Eve OBM is possible cause its a station not a planet and Eve pilots also cant shoot the station /POCO into structure ( Cause its a DustGrab)..
-If Y Dust Corp (Defending) wins the POCO, full ownership gets transferred back to Eve owner and the contract ISK fee gets transferred to the Dust defending corporation.
-If X Dust Corp wins they receive ownership of the POCO and now can set the new tax rate.
-They can also **** off the farmers and raid the minerals inside the POCO. However that might make the farmers leave so there will be no long term benefit in doing that.
-Obviously who ever farms on the planet can still farm there, however they will have to adjust to the new tax rate. The owner of the POCO obviously does not want to alienate his renters so he keeps the tax rate at an acceptable level in order to have a long term passive income.

Taking Your POCO Back

Ok so lets say you as an Eve player lost your POCO and your really peed off now. So you rally your Corpies a few days later and attack the POCO now owned by X Dust Corp.

A.You shoot it into structure and wait for the timer to run out as per current game mechanics. Now X Dust Corp scrambles around to find Eve pilots to defend their POCO against you , why ? Because they cant do **** against an air attack.
Or
B.X Dust Corp deployed station turrets and shoots back at You . To simplify things each turret will be a mini game shooting at Eve ships around the POCO station.
Or X Dust Corp releases drones that attacks the Eve pilots from the station (These would be specialized Dust drones made to attack ships in space).

See the interaction......?

Few Side Notes

GÇô Only POCOS can be attacked not POSSES
-Would be cool in future to have Eve pilots transport Mercs from MMC to POCO ( So there is a chance that your ship with mercs can be blown up.
-The same way PI is a nice passive income for Eve Pilots it now can be a nice passive income for Dust corps or they can just raid them.

Implementing this would require all of CCPs resources for at least one expansion, likely more.

I am far from convinced it is worth it.

The idea is that you as a player would be able to hire a Dust corp to defend your POCO or to take over POCO's and enforce a new tax rate , without starving your renters.

The other side of the coin is at the same token Eve players can take over a POCO held by a Dust Corp and there is nothing much they can do except to hire some Eve pilots do defend their structure. I think this would really mix up interaction between Dust and Eve on a ground level ...space level what ever level.

Dusties don't have enough isk to make it worthwile for capsleers to accept payment from them.

I think internal levels for dust might suck a bit - what if instead the pocos shields where linked to a ground based shield emitter? That way the attacking team had to take out that, in order for the space ships to actually blow it up.

There are not enought players to expand dust beyond faction warfare. My null sec Poco could not careless about these changes.

Yea at the moment very true , but were aiming for the future ....!

yes this definatly wont go down to all planets being 99.9% taxed and no one using poco's anymore

I think it's a good idea, as long as I am allowed to park at the district satellite and indiscriminately fire upon DUST bunnies.

Implementing this would require all of CCPs resources for at least one expansion, likely more.

I am far from convinced it is worth it.