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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 27 post(s) |
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CCP Explorer
C C P
C C P Alliance
1551
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Posted - 2013.06.09 15:55:00 -
[151] - Quote
AutumnWind1983 wrote:CCP Explorer wrote:Noddy Comet wrote:CCP Veritas wrote:People sitting in station chatting contribute practically zero load to the machine running the solar system. Yet they add to the total population limit, correct? There are X pilots causing load and Y spambots. The cap is at X+Y. So instead of the useful population of Jita being what the face value is by banning Y amount of spambots, it remains at facevalue - y and CCP is content with this status? If we banned Y spambots then we would need to lower the limit to X since that's where the actual load comes from. The cap accounts for the non-contributing pilots.
Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Software Director | EVE Universe, EVE Online // CCP Games | @erlendur |
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CCP Explorer
C C P
C C P Alliance
1551
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Posted - 2013.06.09 15:57:00 -
[152] - Quote
Oxide Ammar wrote:Haulie Berry wrote:Tippia wrote:Quote:Other games don't limit sales to local zones GǪand neither does EVE. You're apparently not familiar with this one. He's a themeparker with a preternatural inability to "get" Eve, and is probably hoping the Jita "problem" will be "fixed" by allowing him to purchase anything from anywhere via a universal market and have it delivered to his hangar.  Quote:It's both a mechanics issue (trade alts of various stripes and skills parked in one area for convenience in selling), and human nature in a social game.
As previously mentioned, the people who are just parked aren't actually the problem. Markets, chat, etc. aren't actually on the same node, and an object merely existing in Jita doesn't actually consume all that many clock cycles. What part of this thread you didn't understand ? no one is complaining that spamming bots are causing lags. What are we saying these spamming bots are occupying slots of the Jita cap population. Since they are useless to the rest of EVE community they should deal with that. If they all went away we would need to lower the cap. The cap accounts for both contributing and non-contributing pilots from a load perspective.
Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Software Director | EVE Universe, EVE Online // CCP Games | @erlendur |
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Tollen Gallen
Xionworld
134
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Posted - 2013.06.09 15:57:00 -
[153] - Quote
This thread
like a broken record |
Zimmy Zeta
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
22329
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Posted - 2013.06.09 16:02:00 -
[154] - Quote
CCP Explorer wrote:If we banned Y spambots then we would need to lower the limit to X since that's where the actual load comes from. The cap accounts for the non-contributing pilots.
No offense, Sir, but this sounds a little bit like you exactly knew who the spambots are in Jita.
I thought all use of bots would automatically lead to a ban.
It shouldn't be a question of "If" but of "when".
just my 2 cents.
Just think of how bad an average post by me is, and then realize half of them are even worse |
Terajima Kazumi
Enlightened Industries
Test Alliance Please Ignore
81
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Posted - 2013.06.09 16:12:00 -
[155] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:Algurmane wrote:CCP Explorer wrote:Tippia wrote:Nah. It's a good mix of performance and accessibility as it is. This. If we up the limit then Time Dilation starts to kick in more aggressively than it does now. It will with the current limit drop to 80% approx. every 15 minutes on average during peak hour. Here is a thought, buy a bigger better game server. Don't tell us you can't afford it. This "Time Diliation" should be a great big hint your equipment is a little out dated. It's not the hardware, it's the software, Jita is on the biggest thing the software can presently exploit. Shouldn't you be defending Fountain instead of worrying about Jita?
Please tell us all about a game where 2000 dudes can fight each other at once with neither time dilation nor excessive lag. |
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CCP Explorer
C C P
C C P Alliance
1551
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Posted - 2013.06.09 16:22:00 -
[156] - Quote
Robus Muvila wrote:Seriously if I was a game dev it's the threads like this that would make me want to shave my head and take to the rooftops. Here are the cliffnotes for the traders that have worked themselves into a frenzy
- Jita is a near permanently reinforced that is already stretched to capacity.
- Spambots are not contributing to the problem
- Spambots are not interfering with the population cap
- The only things doing this is the intensely heavy traffic of ships in flight in space
Is it really so bad to finally admit that the heart of the economy of a whole galaxy has outgrown one starsystem? Surely that is a positive reflection on the sheer juggernaut capitalism that you traders and industrialists drive. Indeed, no one thing is going to "fix" Jita, multiple things will be needed. We are not going to throw hardware at the problem since there really isn't any better / more suitable hardware on the market and as Tippia has repeatedly explained in this thread then it's not a sustainable solution. That being said, if and when there is better hardware available we will probably buy it, because who doesn't like shiny new hardware... 
In the meantime we are working on "Brain in a Box" (details explained by Tippia in this thread) that is primarily meant for coordinated fleet fight jump-ins but will greatly benefit Jita, and you can grow Amarr as an alternative to Jita.
I tweeted recently about Amarr's new hardware https://twitter.com/erlendur/status/340791130104942593 and about how the population of Amarr has grown in recent months https://twitter.com/erlendur/status/343517649927536643 . It had been 500-600 for a long while but is now peaking around 1000. Chribba replied https://twitter.com/Chribba/status/343637496351035392 reminiscing how it used to be only 40-50 (he probably walked a mile in the snow to his Veldnaught at the time). Amarr is still far behind Jita in terms of market volume but it's also significantly ahead of all others.
Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Software Director | EVE Universe, EVE Online // CCP Games | @erlendur |
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CCP Explorer
C C P
C C P Alliance
1551
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Posted - 2013.06.09 16:26:00 -
[157] - Quote
Oxide Ammar wrote:Sipphakta en Gravonere wrote:Oxide Ammar wrote:What part of this thread you didn't understand ? no one is complaining that spamming bots are causing lags. What are we saying these spamming bots are occupying slots of the Jita cap population. Since they are useless to the rest of EVE community they should deal with that. You should try understanding what the Devs said, the population cap s already calculated with the chatters/botters in mind: Now: Space for real players: 1600 500 "Botters" (Just to demonstrate, number mustn't be true) 1600 Real players 2100 Population Cap CCP removes the "Botters": Space for real players is still 1600 1600 Real Players 1600 Population Cap Nothing would change for people trying to get in. OK so the cap is variable value based on the Botters in Jita, how is the system differentiate between real players and Botters ? - everyone posting in local chat, system is considering them as Botters ? - anyone is posting in local chat with constant time intervals between his posts? - anyone is posting the same post in local chat repeatedly ? - anyone is docked up considered as Botter ? - anyone who is afk and docked at Jita is considered as Botter ? It's not dynamic, we look at Jita on a regular basis and adjust the value based on the load numbers.
Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Software Director | EVE Universe, EVE Online // CCP Games | @erlendur |
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CCP Explorer
C C P
C C P Alliance
1551
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Posted - 2013.06.09 16:28:00 -
[158] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:CCP Explorer wrote:Asptar Monastair wrote:Oxide Ammar wrote:CCP Explorer wrote:Tippia wrote:Nah. It's a good mix of performance and accessibility as it is. This. If we up the limit then Time Dilation starts to kick in more aggressively than it does now. It will with the current limit drop to 80% approx. every 15 minutes on average during peak hour. Half of jita residents are spamming bots, they are useless and killing the fun for the rest of us. you need to introduce something to keep the traffic flowing. Idea: first ~30 min docked in Jita is free, next the clock will be ticking and Concord will charge you ISK for staying more. Make the parking fee for someone staying like 6 hrs idle is big to teach people value of time. Seeing as how markets and contracts and everything is handled on a different node, and chat is on a completely different service altogether, I would say the most work being done by the node would be on the ships in space. So reducing spammers and other docked activities probably wouldn't make much difference. I could be totally wrong though. You would be absolutely right. Market, contracts and chat are on other nodes. The load in Jita is primarily traffic related, pilots docking/undocking/jumping-in/jumping-out. Then why is the cap on total players? It should always allow me to log in if Im already docked, and just block undocking. Logging in is an act of docking. Your character needs to be added to the solarsystem (in the station) and your skills and bonuses set up (e.g., skills that control what ships you can board and bonuses that control the size of your cargohold).
Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Software Director | EVE Universe, EVE Online // CCP Games | @erlendur |
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CCP Explorer
C C P
C C P Alliance
1551
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Posted - 2013.06.09 16:36:00 -
[159] - Quote
Zimmy Zeta wrote:CCP Explorer wrote:If we banned Y spambots then we would need to lower the limit to X since that's where the actual load comes from. The cap accounts for the non-contributing pilots.
No offense, Sir, but this sounds a little bit like you exactly knew who the spambots are in Jita. We don't, we simply look at the load numbers and adjust them to keep the server as busy as possible without too much TiDi.
Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Software Director | EVE Universe, EVE Online // CCP Games | @erlendur |
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Pator Campus Slave
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
38
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Posted - 2013.06.09 17:29:00 -
[160] - Quote
Question: Would removing Jita from spawning sites(and handling the rats in them) increase the performance? |
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Haulie Berry
1001
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Posted - 2013.06.09 17:42:00 -
[161] - Quote
Pator Campus Slave wrote:Question: Would removing Jita from spawning sites(and handling the rats in them) increase the performance?
Technically, it probably would. I am betting this is a preposterously small fraction of the total load there, there. |
Lexmana
978
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Posted - 2013.06.09 17:43:00 -
[162] - Quote
Pator Campus Slave wrote:Question: Would removing Jita from spawning sites(and handling the rats in them) increase the performance?
I would expect NPCs to not add much load after a quick comparison between Ultra with over 3k NPC kills peak hours and Jita with only 100 but Jita has 3K player jumps and Ultra only 400.
http://evemaps.dotlan.net/system/Uitra
http://evemaps.dotlan.net/system/Jita |
Moonlit Raid
State War Academy
Caldari State
94
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Posted - 2013.06.09 17:45:00 -
[163] - Quote
Oxide Ammar wrote:CCP Explorer wrote:Tippia wrote:Nah. It's a good mix of performance and accessibility as it is. This. If we up the limit then Time Dilation starts to kick in more aggressively than it does now. It will with the current limit drop to 80% approx. every 15 minutes on average during peak hour. Half of jita residents are spamming bots, they are useless and killing the fun for the rest of us. you need to introduce something to keep the traffic flowing. Idea: first ~30 min docked in Jita is free, next the clock will be ticking and Concord will charge you ISK for staying more. Make the parking fee for someone staying like 6 hrs idle is big to teach people value of time.
I like this. Spamming bots = pay for the privilege, we don't want to read your ****.
visiting to buy or sell something = free. |
Shinzhi Xadi
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
49
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Posted - 2013.06.09 17:51:00 -
[164] - Quote
This is something I have also thought about.
Because Jita is permanently overloaded, CCP should consider removing all rat spawns, belts, and hell, remove the other stations too. Same thing for any POS in Jita. Just strip the system down to bare bones, sun, planets, moons, and ONE station. No rats, no belt to mine, no spawning sites of any kind, and no agents. |
Djana Libra
The Black Ops
S2N Citizens
238
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Posted - 2013.06.09 17:55:00 -
[165] - Quote
Shinzhi Xadi wrote:This is something I have also thought about.
Because Jita is permanently overloaded, CCP should consider removing all rat spawns, belts, and hell, remove the other stations too. Same thing for any POS in Jita. Just strip the system down to bare bones, sun, planets, moons, and ONE station. No rats, no belt to mine, no spawning sites of any kind, and no agents.
Also remove all stations from the system, move all assets in the station there to random stations in eve.
Problem fixed |
J3ssica Alba
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
811
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Posted - 2013.06.09 17:57:00 -
[166] - Quote
There was a point when Jita could handle 2450 I think or at least more than 2300 before it shut the gates, now after Odyssey its 2050. Why?
This is my signature. There are many others like it, but this one is mine.-á Without me, my signature is useless. Without my signature, I am useless |
Lexmana
978
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Posted - 2013.06.09 18:00:00 -
[167] - Quote
J3ssica Alba wrote:There was a point when Jita could handle 2450 I think or at least more than 2300 before it shut the gates, now after Odyssey its 2050. Why?
AFAIK they have some extra logging going on and perhaps there is a tweak needed somewhere too after odyssey. |
Dave Stark
3144
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Posted - 2013.06.09 18:00:00 -
[168] - Quote
J3ssica Alba wrote:There was a point when Jita could handle 2450 I think or at least more than 2300 before it shut the gates, now after Odyssey its 2050. Why?
because those 2k players are doing things, and not afk in jita 4-4. |
Shainai
Anomalous Existence
Disavowed.
5
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Posted - 2013.06.09 19:02:00 -
[169] - Quote
So if the problem isn't with people (bots, scammers, spammers) in jita it's with people undocked in jita... ie the people coming in, leaving and the ones camping the undock for easy kills. There are literally hundreds of people sitting at the undock...This is where a large part of the problem exhists. That is what they need to fix.
Now don't get me wrong I can't stand the local chat as many others can't. For this institute a "Slow" chat function. If you talk more then x times a minute add an amount of time before you are actually able to chat again? Similar to a twitch chat room that has thousounds of people trying to chat. Oh and actually banning the bots wouldn't hurt either :). |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
Aegis Solaris
1950
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Posted - 2013.06.09 22:24:00 -
[170] - Quote
CCP Explorer wrote:Vincent Athena wrote:CCP Explorer wrote:You would be absolutely right. Market, contracts and chat are on other nodes. The load in Jita is primarily traffic related, pilots docking/undocking/jumping-in/jumping-out. Then why is the cap on total players? It should always allow me to log in if Im already docked, and just block undocking. Logging in is an act of docking. Your character needs to be added to the solarsystem (in the station) and your skills and bonuses set up (e.g., skills that control what ships you can board and bonuses that control the size of your cargohold).
In that case banning spambots will help. Banned accounts never log in.
http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
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Robus Muvila
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
431
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Posted - 2013.06.09 22:35:00 -
[171] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:CCP Explorer wrote:Vincent Athena wrote:CCP Explorer wrote:You would be absolutely right. Market, contracts and chat are on other nodes. The load in Jita is primarily traffic related, pilots docking/undocking/jumping-in/jumping-out. Then why is the cap on total players? It should always allow me to log in if Im already docked, and just block undocking. Logging in is an act of docking. Your character needs to be added to the solarsystem (in the station) and your skills and bonuses set up (e.g., skills that control what ships you can board and bonuses that control the size of your cargohold). In that case banning spambots will help. Banned accounts never log in.
It's a one time event. Once the character's data is loaded, it's loaded. It has no effect on the persistent performance of the node.
TMC Senior Developer
http://themittani.com - Because EvE has needed a proper news site for ages |
Socks the Fox
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
8
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Posted - 2013.06.09 22:52:00 -
[172] - Quote
I vote Rahadalon be the next major trade hub. Get in now while the prices are still insane! You'll make a killing! |
mkint
1045
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Posted - 2013.06.09 23:39:00 -
[173] - Quote
CCP Explorer wrote:Vincent Athena wrote:CCP Explorer wrote:Asptar Monastair wrote:Oxide Ammar wrote:Half of jita residents are spamming bots, they are useless and killing the fun for the rest of us. you need to introduce something to keep the traffic flowing.
Idea: first ~30 min docked in Jita is free, next the clock will be ticking and Concord will charge you ISK for staying more. Make the parking fee for someone staying like 6 hrs idle is big to teach people value of time. Seeing as how markets and contracts and everything is handled on a different node, and chat is on a completely different service altogether, I would say the most work being done by the node would be on the ships in space. So reducing spammers and other docked activities probably wouldn't make much difference. I could be totally wrong though. You would be absolutely right. Market, contracts and chat are on other nodes. The load in Jita is primarily traffic related, pilots docking/undocking/jumping-in/jumping-out. Then why is the cap on total players? It should always allow me to log in if Im already docked, and just block undocking. Logging in is an act of docking. Your character needs to be added to the solarsystem (in the station) and your skills and bonuses set up (e.g., skills that control what ships you can board and bonuses that control the size of your cargohold).
Any possibility of making the system cap dynamic? That person who just logs in and out to do market orders only puts load on the system node for the couple minutes to log in and out. After the person is logged in, seems like it should be okay to push the system cap up by one.
Maxim 34: If you're leaving scorch-marks, you need a bigger gun. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
14709
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Posted - 2013.06.09 23:46:00 -
[174] - Quote
Socks the Fox wrote:EDIT: WRT the "brain-in-a-box" thing: So you're implementing what amounts to a cache of rarely changing data. Might I ask why this wasn't implemented years ago?
Actually, the caching is just guessing on my part as something they could conceivably do as well. BiaB is first and foremost a parallelisation of object initialisation. It's entirely possible that it's still too context-sensitive to allow it to be cached.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation
RAZOR Alliance
5517
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Posted - 2013.06.10 00:13:00 -
[175] - Quote
Could CCP perhaps implement something like, I don't know, kicking people off the server if they're in Jita, docked, and inactive for more than 30 minutes?
I suspect the amount of people sitting idle in Jita is rather high.
-áMy (mostly boring) Youtube channel. |
Setaceous
Nexus Prima
105
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Posted - 2013.06.10 01:04:00 -
[176] - Quote
How many people simply use Jita as a shortcut to get somewhere else in Caldari space? With Jita on the avoidance list (the default setting for a new accounts) some trips take twice as long, so why not add some gates in surrounding systems that enable the same shortcuts? Which should (in theory) lower the number of people in Jita that aren't there to trade, spam or fight...... |
Ruze
Next Stage Initiative
Trans-Stellar Industries
322
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Posted - 2013.06.10 02:25:00 -
[177] - Quote
Quick Jita Solutions (skipping the obvious "throw more hardware" at it when CCP already has the best of the best):
- Ban known bots. C'mon, we know there is a war on bots. You've admitted that you have to compensate for the bots. Go ahead and ban them. We'd understand. Chat bots should count just as well as miners.
- Prevent players from logging off in Jita, and reroute all logins to neighboring systems, all the time. Make this applicable for any system within 90% of working peak (pre TiDi).
- Implement a docking and undocking tax for any station that is in a system near 90% working peak.
- Tax any system that experiences higher trade and market at a higher rate. Then, turn the profit over into FW with obvious increase in faction presence of NPC's and lower isk cost on LP transfers. You trade in a zone, that zone makes money.
- Prevent any system that is 90% working peak from accepting autopilot commands into that system. Autopilot stops at the gate and the player receives a popup and sound notification that their request cannot be processed.
- Auto-log any player afk for more than 10 mins in a TiDi system.
If you're driven to threaten others with harm or violence because of what they do in game, you can't separate fantasy from reality. That "griefer/thief" is probably more sane than you are. How screwed up is that? |
Ris Dnalor
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
524
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Posted - 2013.06.10 03:06:00 -
[178] - Quote
CCP Explorer wrote:Tippia wrote:Nah. It's a good mix of performance and accessibility as it is. This. If we up the limit then Time Dilation starts to kick in more aggressively than it does now. It will with the current limit drop to 80% approx. every 15 minutes on average during peak hour.
it's broke.
fix it.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=118961
EvE = Everybody Vs. Everybody
- Qolde |
Blood Viper Johnson
Somali Coast Guard BootCamp
1
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Posted - 2013.06.10 03:08:00 -
[179] - Quote
Why jita and others nearby systems lags soo hard during 2k players ion server? |
Ris Dnalor
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
524
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Posted - 2013.06.10 03:09:00 -
[180] - Quote
CCP Explorer wrote:Dave Stark wrote:CCP Explorer wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:CCP Explorer wrote:This.
If we up the limit then Time Dilation starts to kick in more aggressively than it does now. It will with the current limit drop to 80% approx. every 15 minutes on average during peak hour. Maybe you should do something about spam bots rather than punish people actually trying to play the game.  See my reply above, they don't contribute that much to load. but if you removed local, they'd have no reason to be *in* jita, so that'd lighten the load, surely? No, the load would stay the same (because it's traffic related) and we would lower the cap accordingly with the number of spambots that would have gone away. There are X pilots causing load and Y spambots. The cap is at X+Y.
I don't want you to kill local in Jita, the splatter-chatter is to iconic to ever dream of removing.
However, I think if you killed local chat for 4 weeks I think you would see less traffic in jita. Would be an interesting experiment.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=118961
EvE = Everybody Vs. Everybody
- Qolde |
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