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EXPLOIT: Unplugging Implants in Space

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Swiftstrike1 Interfector INC. Fade 2 Black 102	Posted - 2013.07.15 20:54:00 - [1] - Quote Dear CCP Devs, I recently watched a streaming service on Twitch TV (linked below) where the pilot got caught by a Sabre in his pod upon jumping through a gate in nullsec. The pilot opened his character sheet and unplugged all his implants before decloaking just to prevent them from showing up on his kill mail. This is just as much an exploit as the old issues of self destructing a ship to cheat your enemies and ejecting from a Tech 3 cruiser before it was destroyed to prevent skill point loss. Please fix this somehow. I suggest making it so that any implants that were unplugged in the last 15 minutes still show up on kill mails because unplugging implants in space is a good feature that should not be removed. Twitch TV Stream
HiddenPorpoise BG-1 The Craniac 11	Posted - 2013.07.15 20:55:00 - [2] - Quote Because screw WH people.
Swiftstrike1 Interfector INC. Fade 2 Black 102	Posted - 2013.07.15 20:58:00 - [3] - Quote HiddenPorpoise wrote: Because screw WH people. Please note my suggested fix before suggesting that I am biased against wormhole people. Swiftstrike1 wrote: I suggest making it so that any implants that were unplugged in the last 15 minutes still show up on kill mails because unplugging implants in space is a good feature that should not be removed.
RoAnnon Strategic Acquisitions Group Tactical Research Lab 112	Posted - 2013.07.15 21:11:00 - [4] - Quote The level of tears in this one just leaves me saying Wow... So, you're a bounty hunter. No, that ain't it at all. Then what are you? I'm a bounty hunter.
Swiftstrike1 Interfector INC. Fade 2 Black 102	Posted - 2013.07.15 21:14:00 - [5] - Quote RoAnnon wrote: The level of tears in this one just leaves me saying Wow... No tears. This has never affected me personally. It just seems like an exploit to me, especially since you can do it while holding gate cloak. If you think about it, how many other things can you do while holding gate cloak? Not many.
RoAnnon Strategic Acquisitions Group Tactical Research Lab 112	Posted - 2013.07.15 21:16:00 - [6] - Quote Swiftstrike1 wrote: RoAnnon wrote: The level of tears in this one just leaves me saying Wow... No tears. This has never affected me personally. It just seems like an exploit to me, especially since you can do it while holding gate cloak. If you think about it, how many other things can you do while holding gate cloak? Not many. Not with your ship, no, but you're talking about something plugged into your head. You don't think you can reach up to the back of your head in your capsule without disrupting the cloak on your ship? So, you're a bounty hunter. No, that ain't it at all. Then what are you? I'm a bounty hunter.
Swiftstrike1 Interfector INC. Fade 2 Black 102	Posted - 2013.07.15 21:22:00 - [7] - Quote RoAnnon wrote: Not with your ship, no, but you're talking about something plugged into your head. You don't think you can reach up to the back of your head in your capsule without disrupting the cloak on your ship? That's a fair point, however I would say you are talking about immersion rather than gameplay. To take immersion 1 step further... Even if you unplugged your implants, they would still be in your wreckage for people sifting through to find. They should still appear on your loss mail imo, but I accept that people will disagree. Thanks for your feedback.
RoAnnon Strategic Acquisitions Group Tactical Research Lab 112	Posted - 2013.07.15 21:32:00 - [8] - Quote Swiftstrike1 wrote: RoAnnon wrote: Not with your ship, no, but you're talking about something plugged into your head. You don't think you can reach up to the back of your head in your capsule without disrupting the cloak on your ship? That's a fair point, however I would say you are talking about immersion rather than gameplay. To take immersion 1 step further... Even if you unplugged your implants, they would still be in your wreckage for people sifting through to find. They should still appear on your loss mail imo, but I accept that people will disagree. Thanks for your feedback. I don't know, I kinda see it like a navy ship commander wiping his hard drives and destroying his codebooks before getting taken in combat. If the implants were fed into an incinerator and flushed into the engine's afterburner after being unplugged, they'd be gone. My original comment was regarding the idea that you were complaining about the value of a killmail being lessened by the pilot's perfectly valid actions before joining in combat. I realize lots of folks use those numbers for keeping score, it just seems silly to me to cry over it. Going so far as to call it an exploit, implying it's cheating, brings to mind the phrase "all's fair in love and war." :) So, you're a bounty hunter. No, that ain't it at all. Then what are you? I'm a bounty hunter.
Swiftstrike1 Interfector INC. Fade 2 Black 102	Posted - 2013.07.15 21:39:00 - [9] - Quote RoAnnon wrote: My original comment was regarding the idea that you were complaining about the value of a killmail being lessened by the pilot's perfectly valid actions before joining in combat. I realize lots of folks use those numbers for keeping score, it just seems silly to me to cry over it. Going so far as to call it an exploit, implying it's cheating, brings to mind the phrase "all's fair in love and war." :) Now I see where you're coming from! I have no problem with people removing their implants before they set off for PvP. Personally I always clone jump into a cheap clone before going off and risking that clone. The exploit, as I see it, is when people know they are about to get podded and are able to unplug those implants mere seconds before getting blown up. They don't gain anything by doing so except spiting their opponents. Maybe it's not an exploit after all, but CCP have "fixed" issues like this in the past where pilots are able to "cheat their enemies of the prize" using in-game mechanics. Examples include logging off caps in a fight (fixed), self-destructing before getting destroyed (fixed) and ejecting from T3 cruisers to avoid losing skill points (fixed).
Alexila Quant Strategic Acquisitions Group Tactical Research Lab 102	Posted - 2013.07.15 21:41:00 - [10] - Quote I agree with OP on this one. (sorry Ro :P) It's a bit cheap for you to be able to unplug, say a slave set, when you know you're going down to cheat the killers of the 2b killmail on the pod. This conversation of reaching behind your head and unplugging them isn't how neural implants actually work in the game lore. There aren't slots behind your head like slots on the back of a computer to plug them in. They are inside your brain if I'm not mistaken.
Scatim Helicon GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 2039	Posted - 2013.07.15 21:42:00 - [11] - Quote Because if they don't appear on the killmail, they're not really destroyed....? Titans were never meant to be "cost effective", its a huge **.-á- CCP Oveur, 2006 ~If you want a picture of the future of WiS, imagine a spaceship, stamping on an avatar's face. Forever.
Swiftstrike1 Interfector INC. Fade 2 Black 102	Posted - 2013.07.15 21:53:00 - [12] - Quote Scatim Helicon wrote: Because if they don't appear on the killmail, they're not really destroyed....? If they don't appear on the kill mail, there is no evidence that they were destroyed. This means the killers can't brag about it, which is a HUGE part of eve lol. And if I may be presumptuous for a moment, I don't think CCP introduced implants to pod mails just so that people could unplug them before dying and effectively cheat the system. EDIT: I have said enough. No more defensive posting; I shall let my idea live or die on its merits.
Alexila Quant Strategic Acquisitions Group Tactical Research Lab 102	Posted - 2013.07.15 21:55:00 - [13] - Quote Scatim Helicon wrote: Because if they don't appear on the killmail, they're not really destroyed....? The issue is with the inability to show and tell. A bit shallow a reason but that's the same reason they got rid of self destructing to cheat mails, so the argument is valid imo.
HiddenPorpoise BG-1 The Craniac 11	Posted - 2013.07.15 21:55:00 - [14] - Quote WH people need to put implants in in space. If they are within 15 minutes of a transfer what shows up on the kill mail? If it's both that will only really hit people that stare longingly at kill boards. If it's current there is nothing that stops someone from having duds ready to use if they are scuttling their pod anyway. I just want to know what I blew up.
Gizznitt Malikite Agony Unleashed Agony Empire 2308	Posted - 2013.07.15 22:02:00 - [15] - Quote I consider this a small issue in the grand scheme of things... The implants are destroyed..... so there is no real exploit. I don't hold a lot of stock on KB efficiency, so this isn't super important to me. The solution, if it can be done easily, is simply to prevent players from unplugging implants when they are cloaked, and/or when they have a weapons timer. I'm just not convinced it is worth the dev time!
Little Dragon Khamez Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition 252	Posted - 2013.07.15 22:28:00 - [16] - Quote Swiftstrike1 wrote: Dear CCP Devs, I recently watched a streaming service on Twitch TV (linked below) where the pilot got caught by a Sabre in his pod upon jumping through a gate in nullsec. The pilot opened his character sheet and unplugged all his implants before decloaking just to prevent them from showing up on his kill mail. This is just as much an exploit as the old issues of self destructing a ship to cheat your enemies and ejecting from a Tech 3 cruiser before it was destroyed to prevent skill point loss. Please fix this somehow. I suggest making it so that any implants that were unplugged in the last 15 minutes still show up on kill mails because unplugging implants in space is a good feature that should not be removed. Twitch TV Stream I don't consider any of the above to be an exploit, you can win by denying your enemy victory or by taking the shine of that victory, self destructing, ejecting and unplugging should all be valid military tactics. Tiericide is tiers by another name.
Zan Shiro Alternative Enterprises 196	Posted - 2013.07.15 22:31:00 - [17] - Quote Scatim Helicon wrote: Because if they don't appear on the killmail, they're not really destroyed....? Some people are compensating for lack of other things and need the e-peen to make up for it. I'll use the same argument I used for SD way back....ships (now implants) is/are lost, the target is spending more isk to get them back....mission accomplished. Unless deprived on a solo kill its not like the km is an indication of uber ability. I have me a t3 kill in drake. Do I claim that a sign of my pvp prowess...no. Like 6 others on it. Fast tackles to lok her down, more immediate gun dps and a recon for some e-war boosts. that over 1 bil kill wasn't all me. If a solo kill...you got the killmail not loaded with 10 people on it, still a damn good day. Long story short....I don't place much support in the idea of isk efficiency. I am not a great pvp'er but I have a great effiieciency on the pvp char. When you die like a mupper in a drake all sins are forgiven later when you km ho 6+ cap kills. 60 mil loss to being stupid wiped away when you collect 6+ km's at no less than 1.5 bil a piece.
Arya Regnar Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 48	Posted - 2013.07.15 22:59:00 - [18] - Quote Gizznitt Malikite wrote: I consider this a small issue in the grand scheme of things... The implants are destroyed..... so there is no real exploit. I don't hold a lot of stock on KB efficiency, so this isn't super important to me. The solution, if it can be done easily, is simply to prevent players from unplugging implants when they are cloaked, and/or when they have a weapons timer. I'm just not convinced it is worth the dev time! This. EvE-Mail me if you need anything.
paritybit Repo. 237	Posted - 2013.07.15 23:12:00 - [19] - Quote I'm going to start bubble camping and then not blowing up pods. That'll show them.
stoicfaux 2950	Posted - 2013.07.15 23:57:00 - [20] - Quote So the injured party is injured because of a loss of e-peen? a loss of bragging rights? a loss of imaginary tears? I think CCP should leave it as is, because the OP's tears aren't imaginary. And after trying to understand the people who vehemently hated the removal of the learning skills, I would love to see who else is outraged by this "exploit" and hear their reasons why. OP should post this in GD.
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris Republic Military Tax Avoiders 218	Posted - 2013.07.16 00:09:00 - [21] - Quote Kill the target, spare his pod and watch him crying a river. Not much of an exploit imo. Opinions are like assholes. Everybody's got one and everyone thinks everyone else's stinks.
Starbuck Arkaral Vanguard Frontiers Black Legion. 85	Posted - 2013.07.16 00:16:00 - [22] - Quote Swiftstrike1 wrote: I don't think CCP introduced implants to pod mails just so that people could unplug them before dying and effectively cheat the system. I resent you statements regarding implants, sir. Such an action does not "cheat" the system, it simply takes advantage of one of the game's lesser-utilized features. You fail you fail you fail you fail you fail to jump because you are cloaked....
Shereza Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 165	Posted - 2013.07.16 00:49:00 - [23] - Quote Personally, from the perspective of "realism" anything that alters the state of your ship ought to disrupt cloaking or be prohibited while cloaked. Because of their primary or secondary effects any implant that does anything more than enhance your base attributes should either be unable to be removed/destroyed while cloaked or outright decloak you on their destruction. From a practical perspective I don't see that it matters much either way. I might not have any animosity for KM whores, but I don't have any sympathy for them either.
Jint Hikaru OffWorld Exploration Inc 686	Posted - 2013.07.16 09:19:00 - [24] - Quote I agree with the OP. The generation of killmails and the subsequent mocking of the loss is part of Eve. If you rip out implants just before destruction, it was your defeat at the hands of your opponent that caused the implants to be destroyed. Simple fix, No removing of implants when under an aggression timer. (I presume this would work right? no real drawbacks to players... (apart from those who are bad losers) Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
Valleria Darkmoon Heretic Army Heretic Initiative 121	Posted - 2013.07.16 09:34:00 - [25] - Quote Implants appearing on Killmails at all is a relatively recent development. The "gains" here by using this "exploit" are simply not worth worrying about, you can trash your assets at any time if you so choose convenient as the timing may be in some cases. Self-destructing cap ships to avoid giving a mail was never an exploit either, it was just frowned upon by the people who didn't get a mail as an e-peen saving move to avoid leaving a record of the shame of the pilot's derp. You know the people who considered locking in self-destruct before even seeing if their tank could hold when their cap got tackled?
Rented Hunter Heavy Industries 104	Posted - 2013.07.16 10:03:00 - [26] - Quote I find your give-a-crap-about-imaginary-internet-killboard-points disturbing.
Valleria Darkmoon Heretic Army Heretic Initiative 121	Posted - 2013.07.16 10:14:00 - [27] - Quote Remember too that individual killboard efficiency is a hyper inflated stat anyhow, so I'm generally less interested in it than I am in the mails that look very strange. How did you get soloed by a blaster merlin in a dual web armor cane again? OR How did you kill two black ops solo in an Arbitrator again? These are the kinds of things that let you know who you're dealing with. When you think about individual efficiency all kills have their values multiplied by the number of people on the mail since everyone gains the full ISK value of the kill regardless of how many people are on the mail or whether they did any damage to it. A 100 million ISK ship with 150 people on the mail, that ship is now worth 15 billion in individual efficiency divided among the aggressors. Even with only 2 people on a mail the value doubles and it just escalates from there. If anything anywhere is hyper inflation, that's it. If efficiency is supposed to show the quality of a pilot the system needs to be zero sum which is to say that when a ship is lost the value is divided among the involved parties so that if you are blobbing you need to kill a lot of stuff before you'll break even if you lose your own ship. Your losses remain completely your own because no one shares your loss with you but the value of your loss will not be amplified for your killers either so your loss is worth what it is actually worth and not multiplied by a factor of X (except in solo kills). Efficiency for everyone, myself included, would plummet if this were the case but remember that what is considered a good stat is always relative (for example in baseball a batting average of .300 is considered good). 80% efficiency is currently considered acceptable for the most part with numbers approaching 90 or better being good. With that change 45 - 50% might be acceptable while efficiency approaching 60% might be considered good with 70%+ being outstanding and efficiency would become a better indicator of the quality of a pilot. This is why efficiency tends to drop at corp levels and again at alliance levels because the multiplier for a kill is often drastically reduced compared with individual efficiency while losses, as always, are properly calculated. If this happened this trend might invert itself somewhat but that's fine imo. The reason I don't seriously suggest this as a system is because I don't give a rat's ass (I used to care which is why I've given it all this thought), these are just the reasons I don't personally consider efficiency to be a big deal and the only reason to make this thread in the first place is because you feel you have been (or might be) "cheated" out of further padding the padded stat that other people are going to look at.
seth Hendar I love you miners 136	Posted - 2013.07.16 12:49:00 - [28] - Quote Jint Hikaru wrote: I agree with the OP. The generation of killmails and the subsequent mocking of the loss is part of Eve. If you rip out implants just before destruction, it was your defeat at the hands of your opponent that caused the implants to be destroyed. Simple fix, No removing of implants when under an aggression timer. (I presume this would work right? no real drawbacks to players... (apart from those who are bad losers) i was thinking of this fix too, but won't work, wouldn't prevent one to unplug implants while holding cloack on a gates with 100+ ppl waiting for him to uncloack, and 30 sec is plenty to wipe out said implants.. possible fix from my pov: implants can only be plugged / unplugged within station OR a pos shield (so WH ppl can still use implants too)
Little Dragon Khamez Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition 253	Posted - 2013.07.16 16:12:00 - [29] - Quote personally I just start right clicking the warp button when into low structure, your ship pops and your pod insta warps to your destination. Just keep moving and jump out of the system, if this is not possible, just keep moving or safe spot until your timers run out then self destruct your pod. Either way you shouldn't need to unplug any implants. If you've got time to unplug your implants you are probably doing it wrong. But I have no problem with people unplugging, ejecting or whatever. I do not want new rules written into the client to prevent this, since when did eve start holding your hand or fluffing your ego. Tiericide is tiers by another name.
S'totan Impen Reloaded xXPlease Pandemic Citizens Reloaded Alliance.Xx 32	Posted - 2013.07.16 17:18:00 - [30] - Quote Honestly i think that getting rage mails from people who lost crystal sets were far better than any KM that shows up. There was a sense of joy that came from guessing what they had.

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