Originally by: sonofollo

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risk is also there but CCP have taken a big step at boosting PVP in this game - moving players to 0.0 with bigger rewards sure the alliances will get rich but with jump clones are likley to engage in more warfare more often and able to replace assets a lot quicker (plus with titans costing so much) the cost to support it will require less time.

Theres a acquistion of things being sped up a bit in the game but im sure the NPC spawns will get a AI boost or perhaps a slight nerf it they are to out of balance (CCP craves game balance above all else) anything that doesntm eet this is nerfed

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Originally by: Scalor Valentis

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OHNOES!?!?!? SO NOW YOU AN ACTUALY EARN MORE ISK IN 0.4> AND 0.0 THAN IN >0.5 DOING LVL 4?

NOW BELTS ARE ACTUALY WORTH SOMETHING IN 0.4?

THIS CALLS FOE IMIDIET NERF

tool

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Originally by: Copine Callmeknau

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um
So, according to many people here, enticing people to go outside the safety zone is bad and people should stay in high sec to make the game less dynamic?

dubbleyou tee eff?

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Originally by: ****take

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/emote pretends to be Dao and says "Hey everybody, I just found a gold mine, looky here" !!!!!

Damn it Dao, shut up :)

THERE ARE NO GOOD SPAWNS IN THE NORTH AND YOU MAKE CRAPPY ISK, SO GO AWAY, NOTHING TO SEE HERE :)

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Originally by: Khapeta

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Dao, I have some belts to you in Otou, just pay me a visit, old friend. Or tell me where you are npcing, so I can help you.

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Originally by: Wild Rho

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Originally by: Copine Callmeknau

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um
So, according to many people here, enticing people to go outside the safety zone is bad and people should stay in high sec to make the game less dynamic?

dubbleyou tee eff?

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It's not being the belt npcs making more isk in 0.0 than in empire thats the problem, it's that it's already been shown that by pumping huge amounts of isk into the economy from sources such as npcs can cause a wide range of problems such such as inflation.

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Originally by: Wrayeth

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Edited by: Wrayeth on 18/12/2005 11:18:52

Originally by: Wild Rho

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It's not being the belt npcs making more isk in 0.0 than in empire thats the problem, it's that it's already been shown that by pumping huge amounts of isk into the economy from sources such as npcs can cause a wide range of problems such such as inflation.

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True, but CCP has already solved this - take a lot at NPC prices for POS control towers and components. The increased costs take money back out of the economy. I just hope it's enough.

Anyway, as a player this has been a godsend. I'd pretty much quit playing on TQ since I could never get ahead, ISK-wise (PvP expenses and losses pretty much neutralized any gains I made), and hence couldn't do the things I wanted, such as acquiring a Machariel, working towards a dread, etc. This has finally made these things possible for me, and I hope it continues as-is - it's made me want to play again.

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Originally by: Hans Roaming

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Dao, if you look at the numbers of people in space well there are thousands in Empire and a few in 0.0 so I hardly think that it's going to be the huge pump of isk into the economy that it was before. Until now it was hard actually getting people to leave their level 4 missions and come to 0.0 as the risk reward balance was too harsh in CWE.

Now it may be that where you are you're getting triple BS spawns, but that's not 1 jump from empire I bet, you're in a war zone if I remember and you have to watch local at all times in case a hostile comes in at which point you have to hunt them and kill them to keep your space clear. Now all this is different from undocking in Jita in an NPC corp and running level 4s all day as there is zero risk in doing that.

What this actually might be is the carrot that lures people away from high sec into low sec and 0.0 and how would that be a bad thing to get more people out of the theme park and into the sandbox. I predict a lot more pressure on 0.0 alliances now for resources from empire which of course is going to make everything more exciting. I mean there is nothing worse than having 0.0 space and in CWE wondering what could entice your indy people out there (Providence), well now with POS manufacturing and adv refineries as well as NPC's there actually is.

TBH now with the capital ships and all the new T2 ships including the BS coming down the line this is a good things as otherwise all the high end stuff will never be seen let alone used by the bulk of people in Eve. Remember the sinks in the form of BPO and skills for capital ships have also hugely increased so why not the forms of income and if they are in 0.0 then wow I'm all for that.

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Originally by: Evil Mckenna

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dao your a nut

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Originally by: superscarface

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Ive only read the first page of this thread, so im not sure if this is mentioned. Npcing yeah, its crazy now, I like it :)

Moreover, complexes seem to be a big money maker. Whats up with npc damages nowadays? I was tanking dual 750k spawns with a medium rep on my apoc? In a complex, we had once guy tanking 8 battleships with a large armour rep!!

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Originally by: Shai Faetal

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maybe this is al part of ccp's evil plan to populate the rest of 0.0, where the ppl blobbing jita aren't ?.

I think its a good thing, with many new items worth like titan/mothership bpo, even for a decent alliance getting the isk for them is a huge task, with the new npc bounty and loot tabes it may be a little more viable to do so for those who dont enjoy mining as much as i do (teh nubs).

i have been hunting the last 2 days in a low level 0.0 system and the spawns are better then they where in high lvl 0.0 pre-rmr. even finding 2-3 faction rats, been making about 5-15mil/hour + the loot, alot of named mods.

but 1 thing bothers me alot... ALL the RATS DRop 1MN AFTERBURNERS!!##, like wtf . not even 1 other propulsion upgrade, but only 1mn ab's 1 out 50 is a named 1mn ab

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Originally by: Kunming

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I'm glad the devs gave the 0.0 folk a cookie, last time I ratted I logged off with disgust cause of the pathetic cruisers the NPC send after me.

Besides ppl in 0.0 are the ones that pvp the most and take the highest risk, they might be earning more ISK now but they also keep loosing/spending lots of it on war effords. I believe these changes will bring in more action to 0.0, which is nothing I would even complain about.

If u feel the need to nerf something look at the T2 producer in Jita who sits in the station all day putting up buy and sell orders, while cooking more T2 stuff in the factories, without any risk. IMO life in empire and 0.0 just got balanced.

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Originally by: ****take

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Originally by: Hans Roaming

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Dao, if you look at the numbers of people in space well there are thousands in Empire and a few in 0.0 so I hardly think that it's going to be the huge pump of isk into the economy that it was before. Until now it was hard actually getting people to leave their level 4 missions and come to 0.0 as the risk reward balance was too harsh in CWE.

Now it may be that where you are you're getting triple BS spawns, but that's not 1 jump from empire I bet, you're in a war zone if I remember and you have to watch local at all times in case a hostile comes in at which point you have to hunt them and kill them to keep your space clear. Now all this is different from undocking in Jita in an NPC corp and running level 4s all day as there is zero risk in doing that.

What this actually might be is the carrot that lures people away from high sec into low sec and 0.0 and how would that be a bad thing to get more people out of the theme park and into the sandbox. I predict a lot more pressure on 0.0 alliances now for resources from empire which of course is going to make everything more exciting. I mean there is nothing worse than having 0.0 space and in CWE wondering what could entice your indy people out there (Providence), well now with POS manufacturing and adv refineries as well as NPC's there actually is.

TBH now with the capital ships and all the new T2 ships including the BS coming down the line this is a good things as otherwise all the high end stuff will never be seen let alone used by the bulk of people in Eve. Remember the sinks in the form of BPO and skills for capital ships have also hugely increased so why not the forms of income and if they are in 0.0 then wow I'm all for that.

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If you combine these NPC changes with the new starbase assembly arrays and the prevalance of trailer spawns to be farmed (which seems to be better after the patch) in deep 0.0, then you have a template for deep 0.0 capital ship production. A couple adequately equipped large POSes, about 8-10 people with multiple accounts across euro/northam timezone, and you have youself an almost self-contained mining/production operation (except for a local friendly refine conquerable station where you can recycle crap loot until some kind of Recycling Array is introduced).

While you get 3 battleships now instead of 1 before, you seem to see more trailer spawns (anecdotal evidence of course) than before the patch. The NPCs are just one of the really cool changes in this patch which makes deep 0.0 sapce WAY more attractive. If I remember correctly, the mass population of 0.0 space was a goal of the Devs, get the blob out of empire. If things stay as they are now, this will certainly do that.

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Originally by: Dao 2

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Originally by: Evil Mckenna

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dao your a nut

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i think uve told me this before ;p

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Originally by: marioman

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All this talk of "pumping too much isnt into the market"

Did any1 remember the new cap ships? what is it 65 BILLION isk for a single titan bpo, not to mention the bpos for the components, the POS itself needed to build the ships, and the modules for the ship itself. Then you also have the carrier and mothership bpos. We are talking trillions in isk sinks.

Maybe they had to make npc'ing better in some way to counter the massive isk sinks they added with RMR.

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Originally by: McArthur BR

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I don't really think that NPCing is more profitable then mining...
Mining crokite, i make +-39mil per hour, including the corp taxes and selling zyd for 3500 (and donating the nocx)

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Originally by: turnschuh

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about 5-15mil per hour when ratting in 0.0

not a big deal. but It got better yeah and I think its just fine now

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Originally by: Jim Hsu

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Edited by: Jim Hsu on 18/12/2005 23:03:29
Edited by: Jim Hsu on 18/12/2005 22:53:09
Edited by: Jim Hsu on 18/12/2005 22:50:28
I'll try to look at this analytically.

On today with a player record of 20000, about 1500-2000 people (aggressive estimate) are in 0.0. Let's assume at any given time, 20-40% are ratting (as opposed to mining, fighting, traveling, etc).

NPCing is roughly 2-3 times as profitable now compared to the past. With a commonly thrown around figure of 20-30M/hour, I'm guessing the improvement to be .. um... 15M/hour?

That would introduce an increased amount of about 8B/hour (add/subtract a few B). It would also introduce an item/loot value of about the same amount.

Since timezone flunctuations (20000 is peak), avg 0.0 people is more like 1000-1500, making the value more like 5.5B/hour for 23/7 (~120B/day).

This would subsequently enter empire markets. Obviously, a significant portion of this would stay within 0.0, for alliance purchases (PvP, etc).

Probable effects:
-Prices of "uber-loot" will increase, as 0.0 people bid on them for their ships. However, since there is an element of risk factored in, that keeps it in control as people are unwilling to fly what they can't afford to lose (unlike empire people). Since the journey is arduous from 0.0 to empire, this discourages people from purchasing empire items, and encourages purchase of 0.0 equivalents.
-Prices of dropped loot (t1, named) will decrease significantly as markets are flooded. Considering the influx of newbies, this will too be in control as newbies scramble to buy cheap named/t1 loot. AND also since the journey is arduous from 0.0 to empire, less people are willing to make runs with cheap loot to empire (more items would stay in 0.0).
-0.0 people entry may increase, if there are other incentives (e.g. corp recruitment). This would have an effect of driving down profit (and this the number of people coming in would equalize).
-And the essential fact: this money is lost as 0.0 people spend money killing things and being killed.

Overall, this would have an effect, but not as much as L4's did pre-Cold War, since the geographical and numerical distribution of people is completely different.

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Originally by: Unknown Subject

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comments? my comment to you is stfu in future because the devs will now get the nerf bat out. its because of big mouthed A-holes like you at the good things in games get removed. fking whiners...

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Originally by: Ti anna

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Edited by: Ti anna on 18/12/2005 23:17:13
Edited by: Ti anna on 18/12/2005 23:15:52

Originally by: Dao 2

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Originally by: Evil Mckenna

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dao your a nut

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i think uve told me this before ;p

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Well, I think he was right, on all counts.


How many posts in Consecutive order can you reach, I think 8 consecutive in your own post is the record. I might be wrong, but you definitely got that one beat.


P.S. Sorry for interrupting your string of posts to yourself.

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Originally by: Khonsu

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Do you have any idea how many BILLIONS, TRILLIONS, GAZILLIONS the new ship BPOs will remove from the economy? That is, if there's anyone in-game who can actually buy them.

/emote gets dizzy just by thinking of the numbers

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Originally by: Jim Hsu

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Had your caffeine rush? :)

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Originally by: Khonsu

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Well, if 3 of each titan sell, that's 816 billion right there. Then there are component BPOs in addition. We're talking filthy amounts of isk here.. you gotta kill a few NPCs to make a trillion back to the economy. And you can't count the money you make currently NPCing, only the excess ISK compared to earlier.

Thus, I choose to respectfully disagree

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Originally by: Sid Exzaver

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i have a slotion of ballence im a miner/npcer.

i havent realy npced yet in rmr extincvly. but if people are makeing more in 0.0 let em i think this would make balence us miners can finaly raise the selling of ore :) since i have started playing 4 or 5 months ago i have been seeing a steddy decrease in price people selling ore/ mins for what it is realy worth. take a small example and a noob mined and popular and very coman ore since i joined eve i rember when i frist joined 2.20 to 2.40 isk pert trit now 1.20! and lower on market think about that since people will make more money it's olny natral we raise the price at the sorce mineing....... seel ore for more eventaly people will buy. cus they have to make stuff and ships. miners need this increse of cash flow espicaly noobs since if the market keeps going down will be even harder for new members makeing isk. since the trand i notice is a down ward sprial and things are geting expincive ships moduls ect. yet no increese in isk for mins and ore.

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