Originally by: David Corbett

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Take note - CCP has actually come closer to balance between mining and NPCing; you'd still make more consistant money mining. So no need to nerf.

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Originally by: Nyphur

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Enemies are scaled more consistently now. Low sec has more cruisers and less frigs, 0.0 has mre bs and less cruisers and frigs etc.
I like it.

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Originally by: David Corbett

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Take note - CCP has actually come closer to balance between mining and NPCing; you'd still make more consistant money mining. So no need to nerf.

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Originally by: The Enslaver

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Originally by: David Corbett

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Take note - CCP has actually come closer to balance between mining and NPCing; you'd still make more consistant money mining. So no need to nerf.

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Except, mining causes a shift in isk from other people to you - whereas NPCing causes money to be put into the economy.

Its an interesting change I'll admit. Probably a little over the top though.

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Originally by: Lina Kotrican

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I am still a newbie and avoiding anythign with guns. good job my little shuttle is fast.

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Originally by: Nyphur

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Enemies are scaled more consistently now. Low sec has more cruisers and less frigs, 0.0 has mre bs and less cruisers and frigs etc.
I like it.

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Originally by: Rebell

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Originally by: Nyphur

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Enemies are scaled more consistently now. Low sec has more cruisers and less frigs, 0.0 has mre bs and less cruisers and frigs etc.
I like it.

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Battleships have become better npc farmers as a result because their big guns will not have to bother with smaller ships anymore.

Killing is fast, but it still takes time to pick up loot, so I think the money/time is still quite balanced.

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Originally by: Jenny Spitfire

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Ssssssssssshhhh... dont spoil the market. Later, everyone goes NPCing and PvPing and nobody mines and makes stuffs anymore.


PS: OK, NPCing is a bit more profitable now but not sure NPCing is as good as mining.

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Originally by: Rebell

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Originally by: Nyphur

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Enemies are scaled more consistently now. Low sec has more cruisers and less frigs, 0.0 has mre bs and less cruisers and frigs etc.
I like it.

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Battleships have become better npc farmers as a result because their big guns will not have to bother with smaller ships anymore.

Killing is fast, but it still takes time to pick up loot, so I think the money/time is still quite balanced.

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Originally by: Nyphur

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Originally by: Rebell

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Originally by: Nyphur

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Enemies are scaled more consistently now. Low sec has more cruisers and less frigs, 0.0 has mre bs and less cruisers and frigs etc.
I like it.

---

Battleships have become better npc farmers as a result because their big guns will not have to bother with smaller ships anymore.

Killing is fast, but it still takes time to pick up loot, so I think the money/time is still quite balanced.

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Tractor beam.

Hmm.. Perhaps this is unbalanced. If it is, they'll have a look at it and fix it so enjoy it while it lasts, I guess.

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Originally by: Lisento Slaven

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NPCing is always better than mining when it comes to making money. Mining is just a slower, safer way of doing it and doesn't bring it nearly as much.

People who live in 0.0 will be making a lot more money now (especially all those alliances who fly in blobs). I wonder how this will affect empire markets...

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Originally by: Dao 2

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imma miner, was mining bistot 3 days ago ;p trust me its MUCH better :| i was hard pressed to make 100mil a day. I can make like 1/3 that in an hour now :|

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Originally by: Jenny Spitfire

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Originally by: Dao 2

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imma miner, was mining bistot 3 days ago ;p trust me its MUCH better :| i was hard pressed to make 100mil a day. I can make like 1/3 that in an hour now :|

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Well, things are overpriced and not many have the luxury of easy ISKs making. I do find 30 mins of NPCing can easily obtain 3M to 5M. But I havent really play the game yet, been having little problems here and there with RMR.

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Originally by: Dao 2

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Originally by: Lina Kotrican

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I am still a newbie and avoiding anythign with guns. good job my little shuttle is fast.

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hehe the good days ;p

ull be like us soon enough :|

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Originally by: Dao 2

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20km aint to much but it helps def :|

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Originally by: Lisento Slaven

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NPCing is always better than mining when it comes to making money. Mining is just a slower, safer way of doing it and doesn't bring it nearly as much.

People who live in 0.0 will be making a lot more money now (especially all those alliances who fly in blobs). I wonder how this will affect empire markets...

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Originally by: Nyphur

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Originally by: Dao 2

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20km aint to much but it helps def :|

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Sure helps me a ton ^^;. Been running missions, myself.

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Originally by: Lina Kotrican

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Originally by: Dao 2

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Originally by: Lina Kotrican

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I am still a newbie and avoiding anythign with guns. good job my little shuttle is fast.

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hehe the good days ;p

ull be like us soon enough :|

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I hope so. I hate starting a new game takes ages to level up and stuff. well you don't exactly level up on this... still getting used to it all.

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Originally by: Dao 2

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Originally by: Nyphur

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Originally by: Dao 2

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20km aint to much but it helps def :|

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Sure helps me a ton ^^;. Been running missions, myself.

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missions i dont do so dunno bout there :S ;p

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Originally by: aeti

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any stuff that makes 0.0 better is good

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Originally by: Dao 2

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Originally by: aeti

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any stuff that makes 0.0 better is good

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then makes isk worthless ;p?

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Originally by: Dak Hakin

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Its real easy for people flying HACs and battleships to say "I'm making too much money!11!1 this suxors!". Not all of us have the capabilities to npc in 0.0 with a 1million ISK bounty per rat. I currently have less than 2 million in my wallet and I would kind of like to make some more, so that I can buy more skills etc.

Please dont nerf npc bounties or loot.

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Originally by: Nyphur

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Originally by: Dak Hakin

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Its real easy for people flying HACs and battleships to say "I'm making too much money!11!1 this suxors!". Not all of us have the capabilities to npc in 0.0 with a 1million ISK bounty per rat. I currently have less than 2 million in my wallet and I would kind of like to make some more, so that I can buy more skills etc.

Please dont nerf npc bounties or loot.

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I think you're missing the point. They're saying the highest end rats in 0.0 will net you more ISK than mining there. You wouldn't be affected by a nerf to that at all if you don't go to 0.0.

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Originally by: Dao 2

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Edited by: Dao 2 on 17/12/2005 06:25:45
i get anywhere between 2-4 mil avg on a spawn, more if its dread or officer (havent run into one of those since patch)

i can kill a spawn in like 5 min

edit: and tank mining isnt much of an option when ur jammed or nossed or theres 3 bses shootin u ;p

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Originally by: Nyphur

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Originally by: Dao 2

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Edited by: Dao 2 on 17/12/2005 06:25:45
i get anywhere between 2-4 mil avg on a spawn, more if its dread or officer (havent run into one of those since patch)

i can kill a spawn in like 5 min

edit: and tank mining isnt much of an option when ur jammed or nossed or theres 3 bses shootin u ;p

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You've obviously never mined in a deimos! The ultime sacriligle to a lovely battle vessel. Mining.

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Originally by: Dao 2

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Edited by: Dao 2 on 17/12/2005 06:33:17

Originally by: Nyphur

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Originally by: Dao 2

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Edited by: Dao 2 on 17/12/2005 06:25:45
i get anywhere between 2-4 mil avg on a spawn, more if its dread or officer (havent run into one of those since patch)

i can kill a spawn in like 5 min

edit: and tank mining isnt much of an option when ur jammed or nossed or theres 3 bses shootin u ;p

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You've obviously never mined in a deimos! The ultime sacriligle to a lovely battle vessel. Mining.

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apoc with dcm 2s and crystals ;p

edit: there was a dread that mined veld :|

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Originally by: Bariina Tizhaan

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I don't think that it will upset 0.0 economy in the long run. If ratters have more money then they'll surely pay more for items to purchase. As it is some of the low end mins are more expensive than in empire, just to encourage people to mine them.
I'd hope to see it balance out. It'll also be an incentive for people to mine in groups as those on overwatch will earn money directly from protection rather than being paid afterwards.

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Originally by: Evil Thug

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7b loss - is not too much for brag about.

You must include, that you killed complex whoring alt. 1 completing of 10\10 complex = 700kk - 2000kk. So - i highly doubt, that its great loss for him.

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Originally by: Snake Jankins

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Edited by: Snake Jankins on 17/12/2005 07:42:26
I was talking about complex runners and wanted to edit it a quote in later, but guess it just would get lost, so:

Originally by: Evil Thug

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7b loss - is not too much for brag about.

You must include, that you killed complex whoring alt. 1 completing of 10\10 complex = 700kk - 2000kk. So - i highly doubt, that its great loss for him.

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(quoted from here )

It describes 0.0 complex farming pre-rmr. So imho high-min mining, complex farming and t2 industry in case you have good BPOs are fields, where a lot of money is made.

Now rat hunting got a upgrade, but I don't think that it's uber.
If I spend a full day angel rat hunting, like a few hours before DT and the whole afternoon, I end with maybe 100 mil in bounties and a lot of loot, but the loot wasn't good before RMR in case of angels, now it's better, but the price for t1 loot is dropping anyway and will drop even faster now.

If I mine arkanor or farm complexes a whole day, I think I make a lot of money, too.

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Originally by: Mesuinu

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Dear CCP,

Please don't nerf the npc's 'til I'm rich.

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Originally by: Copine Callmeknau

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um
So, according to many people here, enticing people to go outside the safety zone is bad and people should stay in high sec to make the game less dynamic?

dubbleyou tee eff?

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Originally by: Wild Rho

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It's not being the belt npcs making more isk in 0.0 than in empire thats the problem, it's that it's already been shown that by pumping huge amounts of isk into the economy from sources such as npcs can cause a wide range of problems such such as inflation.

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Originally by: sonofollo

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get rich get the ISK and the assets now because this will be nerfed at some point - the flip side is more in 0.0 and also more PVP leading to more ISK sinks.

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Originally by: Dak Hakin

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Its real easy for people flying HACs and battleships to say "I'm making too much money!11!1 this suxors!". Not all of us have the capabilities to npc in 0.0 with a 1million ISK bounty per rat. I currently have less than 2 million in my wallet and I would kind of like to make some more, so that I can buy more skills etc.

Please dont nerf npc bounties or loot.

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Originally by: darth solo

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as im a nice guy and its christmas and all, ill help u out with NPCing in Fountain(access and good areas)... Fountain is bursting with good NPCs. I own fountain its MINE and im gorging on it the now like a fat kid eating his xmas dinner..

d "nice guy" solo.

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Originally by: Admiral Koutsoudas

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Can someone give me an example of what you get for loot then?

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Originally by: Copine Callmeknau

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um
So, according to many people here, enticing people to go outside the safety zone is bad and people should stay in high sec to make the game less dynamic?

dubbleyou tee eff?

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Originally by: Hans Roaming

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Dao, if you look at the numbers of people in space well there are thousands in Empire and a few in 0.0 so I hardly think that it's going to be the huge pump of isk into the economy that it was before. Until now it was hard actually getting people to leave their level 4 missions and come to 0.0 as the risk reward balance was too harsh in CWE.

Now it may be that where you are you're getting triple BS spawns, but that's not 1 jump from empire I bet, you're in a war zone if I remember and you have to watch local at all times in case a hostile comes in at which point you have to hunt them and kill them to keep your space clear. Now all this is different from undocking in Jita in an NPC corp and running level 4s all day as there is zero risk in doing that.

What this actually might be is the carrot that lures people away from high sec into low sec and 0.0 and how would that be a bad thing to get more people out of the theme park and into the sandbox. I predict a lot more pressure on 0.0 alliances now for resources from empire which of course is going to make everything more exciting. I mean there is nothing worse than having 0.0 space and in CWE wondering what could entice your indy people out there (Providence), well now with POS manufacturing and adv refineries as well as NPC's there actually is.

TBH now with the capital ships and all the new T2 ships including the BS coming down the line this is a good things as otherwise all the high end stuff will never be seen let alone used by the bulk of people in Eve. Remember the sinks in the form of BPO and skills for capital ships have also hugely increased so why not the forms of income and if they are in 0.0 then wow I'm all for that.

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Originally by: Kunming

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I'm glad the devs gave the 0.0 folk a cookie, last time I ratted I logged off with disgust cause of the pathetic cruisers the NPC send after me.

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Quote:

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Besides ppl in 0.0 are the ones that pvp the most and take the highest risk, they might be earning more ISK now but they also keep loosing/spending lots of it on war effords. I believe these changes will bring in more action to 0.0, which is nothing I would even complain about.

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Quote:

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If u feel the need to nerf something look at the T2 producer in Jita who sits in the station all day putting up buy and sell orders, while cooking more T2 stuff in the factories, without any risk. IMO life in empire and 0.0 just got balanced.

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Originally by: Dao 2

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Sup all,

Just have to say :S

Patch seems to be stabilisng now and its nicer and all ;p, but i see one horrible thing :| the new npc changes are absolutely crazy. Now i live in .0, and am inpcing right now ;p so it's not like OMG NERF THE PPL GETTING RICH!!!! T

hough I agree with the risk v reward the new amount of BSes that show up with spawns is god damn crazy! I make more money then I ever had now :o. Im perfectly fine with being rich and all ;p but my problem is that its gonna pump A LOT of isk into the game... REALLY fast...

So I don't really thing this is a good thing :/

ur comments? ;p

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Originally by: Dao 2

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Sup all,

Just have to say :S

Patch seems to be stabilisng now and its nicer and all ;p, but i see one horrible thing :| the new npc changes are absolutely crazy. Now i live in .0, and am inpcing right now ;p so it's not like OMG NERF THE PPL GETTING RICH!!!! T

hough I agree with the risk v reward the new amount of BSes that show up with spawns is god damn crazy! I make more money then I ever had now :o. Im perfectly fine with being rich and all ;p but my problem is that its gonna pump A LOT of isk into the game... REALLY fast...

So I don't really thing this is a good thing :/

ur comments? ;p

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Originally by: McArthur BR

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I don't really think that NPCing is more profitable then mining...
Mining crokite, i make +-39mil per hour, including the corp taxes and selling zyd for 3500 (and donating the nocx)

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Originally by: Snake Jankins

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... Triple BS spawns were white common for me...

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Originally by: Nyphur

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Originally by: Dao 2

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Originally by: aeti

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any stuff that makes 0.0 better is good

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then makes isk worthless ;p?

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Definitely needs looked at. We all remember what happened when players could make 20-50mil/hour doing level 4 missions, don't we? They nerfed them because they were upsetting the economy. If the same has been done here, it needs a look.

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Originally by: Unknown Subject

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comments? my comment to you is stfu in future because the devs will now get the nerf bat out. its because of big mouthed A-holes like you at the good things in games get removed. fking whiners...

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Originally by: Jim Hsu

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...

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Originally by: TogetherAsOne

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Where the hell are you guys NPCing? I've gone a little ways into 0.0 to check out the situation but seemed to have the usual frig or cruiser groups with a few BS spawns in there (although better BS spawns when i saw them). No BS all over the place like i've heard. Must be deep in 0.0, eh?

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Originally by: sonofollo

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risk is also there but CCP have taken a big step at boosting PVP in this game - moving players to 0.0 with bigger rewards sure the alliances will get rich but with jump clones are likley to engage in more warfare more often and able to replace assets a lot quicker (plus with titans costing so much) the cost to support it will require less time.

Theres a acquistion of things being sped up a bit in the game but im sure the NPC spawns will get a AI boost or perhaps a slight nerf it they are to out of balance (CCP craves game balance above all else) anything that doesntm eet this is nerfed

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Originally by: Scalor Valentis

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OHNOES!?!?!? SO NOW YOU AN ACTUALY EARN MORE ISK IN 0.4> AND 0.0 THAN IN >0.5 DOING LVL 4?

NOW BELTS ARE ACTUALY WORTH SOMETHING IN 0.4?

THIS CALLS FOE IMIDIET NERF

tool

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Originally by: Copine Callmeknau

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um
So, according to many people here, enticing people to go outside the safety zone is bad and people should stay in high sec to make the game less dynamic?

dubbleyou tee eff?

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Originally by: ****take

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/emote pretends to be Dao and says "Hey everybody, I just found a gold mine, looky here" !!!!!

Damn it Dao, shut up :)

THERE ARE NO GOOD SPAWNS IN THE NORTH AND YOU MAKE CRAPPY ISK, SO GO AWAY, NOTHING TO SEE HERE :)

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Originally by: Khapeta

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Dao, I have some belts to you in Otou, just pay me a visit, old friend. Or tell me where you are npcing, so I can help you.

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Originally by: Wild Rho

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Originally by: Copine Callmeknau

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um
So, according to many people here, enticing people to go outside the safety zone is bad and people should stay in high sec to make the game less dynamic?

dubbleyou tee eff?

---

It's not being the belt npcs making more isk in 0.0 than in empire thats the problem, it's that it's already been shown that by pumping huge amounts of isk into the economy from sources such as npcs can cause a wide range of problems such such as inflation.

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Originally by: Wrayeth

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Edited by: Wrayeth on 18/12/2005 11:18:52

Originally by: Wild Rho

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It's not being the belt npcs making more isk in 0.0 than in empire thats the problem, it's that it's already been shown that by pumping huge amounts of isk into the economy from sources such as npcs can cause a wide range of problems such such as inflation.

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True, but CCP has already solved this - take a lot at NPC prices for POS control towers and components. The increased costs take money back out of the economy. I just hope it's enough.

Anyway, as a player this has been a godsend. I'd pretty much quit playing on TQ since I could never get ahead, ISK-wise (PvP expenses and losses pretty much neutralized any gains I made), and hence couldn't do the things I wanted, such as acquiring a Machariel, working towards a dread, etc. This has finally made these things possible for me, and I hope it continues as-is - it's made me want to play again.

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Originally by: Hans Roaming

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Dao, if you look at the numbers of people in space well there are thousands in Empire and a few in 0.0 so I hardly think that it's going to be the huge pump of isk into the economy that it was before. Until now it was hard actually getting people to leave their level 4 missions and come to 0.0 as the risk reward balance was too harsh in CWE.

Now it may be that where you are you're getting triple BS spawns, but that's not 1 jump from empire I bet, you're in a war zone if I remember and you have to watch local at all times in case a hostile comes in at which point you have to hunt them and kill them to keep your space clear. Now all this is different from undocking in Jita in an NPC corp and running level 4s all day as there is zero risk in doing that.

What this actually might be is the carrot that lures people away from high sec into low sec and 0.0 and how would that be a bad thing to get more people out of the theme park and into the sandbox. I predict a lot more pressure on 0.0 alliances now for resources from empire which of course is going to make everything more exciting. I mean there is nothing worse than having 0.0 space and in CWE wondering what could entice your indy people out there (Providence), well now with POS manufacturing and adv refineries as well as NPC's there actually is.

TBH now with the capital ships and all the new T2 ships including the BS coming down the line this is a good things as otherwise all the high end stuff will never be seen let alone used by the bulk of people in Eve. Remember the sinks in the form of BPO and skills for capital ships have also hugely increased so why not the forms of income and if they are in 0.0 then wow I'm all for that.

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Originally by: Evil Mckenna

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dao your a nut

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Originally by: superscarface

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Ive only read the first page of this thread, so im not sure if this is mentioned. Npcing yeah, its crazy now, I like it :)

Moreover, complexes seem to be a big money maker. Whats up with npc damages nowadays? I was tanking dual 750k spawns with a medium rep on my apoc? In a complex, we had once guy tanking 8 battleships with a large armour rep!!

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Originally by: Shai Faetal

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maybe this is al part of ccp's evil plan to populate the rest of 0.0, where the ppl blobbing jita aren't ?.

I think its a good thing, with many new items worth like titan/mothership bpo, even for a decent alliance getting the isk for them is a huge task, with the new npc bounty and loot tabes it may be a little more viable to do so for those who dont enjoy mining as much as i do (teh nubs).

i have been hunting the last 2 days in a low level 0.0 system and the spawns are better then they where in high lvl 0.0 pre-rmr. even finding 2-3 faction rats, been making about 5-15mil/hour + the loot, alot of named mods.

but 1 thing bothers me alot... ALL the RATS DRop 1MN AFTERBURNERS!!##, like wtf . not even 1 other propulsion upgrade, but only 1mn ab's 1 out 50 is a named 1mn ab

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Originally by: Kunming

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I'm glad the devs gave the 0.0 folk a cookie, last time I ratted I logged off with disgust cause of the pathetic cruisers the NPC send after me.

Besides ppl in 0.0 are the ones that pvp the most and take the highest risk, they might be earning more ISK now but they also keep loosing/spending lots of it on war effords. I believe these changes will bring in more action to 0.0, which is nothing I would even complain about.

If u feel the need to nerf something look at the T2 producer in Jita who sits in the station all day putting up buy and sell orders, while cooking more T2 stuff in the factories, without any risk. IMO life in empire and 0.0 just got balanced.

---

Originally by: ****take

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Originally by: Hans Roaming

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Dao, if you look at the numbers of people in space well there are thousands in Empire and a few in 0.0 so I hardly think that it's going to be the huge pump of isk into the economy that it was before. Until now it was hard actually getting people to leave their level 4 missions and come to 0.0 as the risk reward balance was too harsh in CWE.

Now it may be that where you are you're getting triple BS spawns, but that's not 1 jump from empire I bet, you're in a war zone if I remember and you have to watch local at all times in case a hostile comes in at which point you have to hunt them and kill them to keep your space clear. Now all this is different from undocking in Jita in an NPC corp and running level 4s all day as there is zero risk in doing that.

What this actually might be is the carrot that lures people away from high sec into low sec and 0.0 and how would that be a bad thing to get more people out of the theme park and into the sandbox. I predict a lot more pressure on 0.0 alliances now for resources from empire which of course is going to make everything more exciting. I mean there is nothing worse than having 0.0 space and in CWE wondering what could entice your indy people out there (Providence), well now with POS manufacturing and adv refineries as well as NPC's there actually is.

TBH now with the capital ships and all the new T2 ships including the BS coming down the line this is a good things as otherwise all the high end stuff will never be seen let alone used by the bulk of people in Eve. Remember the sinks in the form of BPO and skills for capital ships have also hugely increased so why not the forms of income and if they are in 0.0 then wow I'm all for that.

---

If you combine these NPC changes with the new starbase assembly arrays and the prevalance of trailer spawns to be farmed (which seems to be better after the patch) in deep 0.0, then you have a template for deep 0.0 capital ship production. A couple adequately equipped large POSes, about 8-10 people with multiple accounts across euro/northam timezone, and you have youself an almost self-contained mining/production operation (except for a local friendly refine conquerable station where you can recycle crap loot until some kind of Recycling Array is introduced).

While you get 3 battleships now instead of 1 before, you seem to see more trailer spawns (anecdotal evidence of course) than before the patch. The NPCs are just one of the really cool changes in this patch which makes deep 0.0 sapce WAY more attractive. If I remember correctly, the mass population of 0.0 space was a goal of the Devs, get the blob out of empire. If things stay as they are now, this will certainly do that.

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Originally by: Dao 2

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Originally by: Evil Mckenna

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dao your a nut

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i think uve told me this before ;p

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Originally by: marioman

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All this talk of "pumping too much isnt into the market"

Did any1 remember the new cap ships? what is it 65 BILLION isk for a single titan bpo, not to mention the bpos for the components, the POS itself needed to build the ships, and the modules for the ship itself. Then you also have the carrier and mothership bpos. We are talking trillions in isk sinks.

Maybe they had to make npc'ing better in some way to counter the massive isk sinks they added with RMR.

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Originally by: McArthur BR

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I don't really think that NPCing is more profitable then mining...
Mining crokite, i make +-39mil per hour, including the corp taxes and selling zyd for 3500 (and donating the nocx)

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Originally by: turnschuh

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about 5-15mil per hour when ratting in 0.0

not a big deal. but It got better yeah and I think its just fine now

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Originally by: Jim Hsu

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Edited by: Jim Hsu on 18/12/2005 23:03:29
Edited by: Jim Hsu on 18/12/2005 22:53:09
Edited by: Jim Hsu on 18/12/2005 22:50:28
I'll try to look at this analytically.

On today with a player record of 20000, about 1500-2000 people (aggressive estimate) are in 0.0. Let's assume at any given time, 20-40% are ratting (as opposed to mining, fighting, traveling, etc).

NPCing is roughly 2-3 times as profitable now compared to the past. With a commonly thrown around figure of 20-30M/hour, I'm guessing the improvement to be .. um... 15M/hour?

That would introduce an increased amount of about 8B/hour (add/subtract a few B). It would also introduce an item/loot value of about the same amount.

Since timezone flunctuations (20000 is peak), avg 0.0 people is more like 1000-1500, making the value more like 5.5B/hour for 23/7 (~120B/day).

This would subsequently enter empire markets. Obviously, a significant portion of this would stay within 0.0, for alliance purchases (PvP, etc).

Probable effects:
-Prices of "uber-loot" will increase, as 0.0 people bid on them for their ships. However, since there is an element of risk factored in, that keeps it in control as people are unwilling to fly what they can't afford to lose (unlike empire people). Since the journey is arduous from 0.0 to empire, this discourages people from purchasing empire items, and encourages purchase of 0.0 equivalents.
-Prices of dropped loot (t1, named) will decrease significantly as markets are flooded. Considering the influx of newbies, this will too be in control as newbies scramble to buy cheap named/t1 loot. AND also since the journey is arduous from 0.0 to empire, less people are willing to make runs with cheap loot to empire (more items would stay in 0.0).
-0.0 people entry may increase, if there are other incentives (e.g. corp recruitment). This would have an effect of driving down profit (and this the number of people coming in would equalize).
-And the essential fact: this money is lost as 0.0 people spend money killing things and being killed.

Overall, this would have an effect, but not as much as L4's did pre-Cold War, since the geographical and numerical distribution of people is completely different.

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Originally by: Unknown Subject

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comments? my comment to you is stfu in future because the devs will now get the nerf bat out. its because of big mouthed A-holes like you at the good things in games get removed. fking whiners...

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Originally by: Ti anna

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Edited by: Ti anna on 18/12/2005 23:17:13
Edited by: Ti anna on 18/12/2005 23:15:52

Originally by: Dao 2

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Originally by: Evil Mckenna

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dao your a nut

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i think uve told me this before ;p

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Well, I think he was right, on all counts.


How many posts in Consecutive order can you reach, I think 8 consecutive in your own post is the record. I might be wrong, but you definitely got that one beat.


P.S. Sorry for interrupting your string of posts to yourself.

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Originally by: Khonsu

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Do you have any idea how many BILLIONS, TRILLIONS, GAZILLIONS the new ship BPOs will remove from the economy? That is, if there's anyone in-game who can actually buy them.

/emote gets dizzy just by thinking of the numbers

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Originally by: Jim Hsu

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Had your caffeine rush? :)

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Originally by: Khonsu

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Well, if 3 of each titan sell, that's 816 billion right there. Then there are component BPOs in addition. We're talking filthy amounts of isk here.. you gotta kill a few NPCs to make a trillion back to the economy. And you can't count the money you make currently NPCing, only the excess ISK compared to earlier.

Thus, I choose to respectfully disagree

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Originally by: Sid Exzaver

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i have a slotion of ballence im a miner/npcer.

i havent realy npced yet in rmr extincvly. but if people are makeing more in 0.0 let em i think this would make balence us miners can finaly raise the selling of ore :) since i have started playing 4 or 5 months ago i have been seeing a steddy decrease in price people selling ore/ mins for what it is realy worth. take a small example and a noob mined and popular and very coman ore since i joined eve i rember when i frist joined 2.20 to 2.40 isk pert trit now 1.20! and lower on market think about that since people will make more money it's olny natral we raise the price at the sorce mineing....... seel ore for more eventaly people will buy. cus they have to make stuff and ships. miners need this increse of cash flow espicaly noobs since if the market keeps going down will be even harder for new members makeing isk. since the trand i notice is a down ward sprial and things are geting expincive ships moduls ect. yet no increese in isk for mins and ore.

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Originally by: MAXSuicide

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only carebears call pvpers 'greifers'

ehehehh....

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Originally by: Agent Kenshin

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Dao your missing a very important part of your equation. How much did people make pre patch from the NPCs... You have to take into account the difference in price in NPCs. Theres no way there are hundreds of billions of extra isk going into the market every day.

current npc bounties - old npc bounties = difference in bounties. Thats the extra isk getting into the economy.

Now im not including the new npcs or anything or the increase in rat hunting. But its not that much more isk going into the market there are a lot of other things that will suck the isk out. Dont be suprised that with the new manufacturing system an increase in the price of T2 even further. Especially in HACs.

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Originally by: WolfGang H

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I heard that the npcing in 0.0 was good.

Came out and lost my battleship to player pirates. They wanted 150million isk for my life. I only had 43 million isk and told them that, and that id give it a llto them if they let me go. They demanded 90 million isk...I said again I only have 43 million isk. Not good enough for them. They destroyed my ship and podded me instantly using a large smart bomb. Had 5 +3 implants and other implants.

Spent several hours and borroed some isk from a friend to buy a new ship and get it re equiped and go back out. A few minutes into npcing I got warp scrambled by a guy who demanded 35 million isk. I paid it, leaving me with 6 million isk and I owe isk to my friend.

0.0 sucks. Before you flame me and tell me I could have taken precautions to not get killed/ransomed, I was taking them but both times trickery and improbable circumstances were involved. Sometimes bad stuff just happens at the exact worst time.

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Originally by: Dao 2

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Edited by: Dao 2 on 18/12/2005 23:46:47

Originally by: Khonsu

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Well, if 3 of each titan sell, that's 816 billion right there. Then there are component BPOs in addition. We're talking filthy amounts of isk here.. you gotta kill a few NPCs to make a trillion back to the economy. And you can't count the money you make currently NPCing, only the excess ISK compared to earlier.

Thus, I choose to respectfully disagree

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if this keeps up i think itll eventually overrun even that :|

edit: lets say on weekdays theres an average of 7,000 ppl on at all times

and on weekends an average of 12,000 ppl on at all times.

Say 20% of those ppl live in .0

thats 1,400 ppl in .0 at all times in .0 on weekdays
thats 2,400 ppl on at all times in .0 on weekends

say 30% of those ppl npc with a 20mil an hour average (i make more but whatever).

420 people on weekdays making 8.4 bil an hour
720 people on weekends making 14.4 bil an hour

thats A LOT
say im being to optimistic, and cut those estimates in half.

thats still 92.4 billion a day on weekdays (22 hour days to get rid of dt, and an extra hour cause its real quiet before and after dt)

and 158.4 billion a day on weekends (with the same 22 hour a day calculations :|)

wow am i doing something wrong? thats MUCH more than i woulda figured.....

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Originally by: Dao 2

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u chose a bad place to npc ... (choke point system im guessin :|)

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Originally by: Dao 2

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Originally by: aeti

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any stuff that makes 0.0 better is good

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then makes isk worthless ;p?

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Originally by: WolfGang H

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Originally by: Dao 2

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u chose a bad place to npc ... (choke point system im guessin :|)

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What do you know about my circumstances, you uninformed, self-aggrandizing, assuming fool? I was 16 jumps into pure 0.0. Not a coke point, sorry.

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Originally by: Kalixa Hihro

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The new t2 stuff will be astronomical... Maybe if people weren't such greedy slimeballs, CCP wouldn't see the need to inject money into the economy. The players cause the inflation.
-Kal

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Originally by: Nyphur

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Been NPCing for a while out in 0.0. It's good money but I can make the same mining, if not more.

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Originally by: Dao 2

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Originally by: Nyphur

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Been NPCing for a while out in 0.0. It's good money but I can make the same mining, if not more.

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aye was the same for me before, cept if i hit an office or commander. but now that RMR is out i completely blow away mining. i actually prefer mining too :(

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Originally by: Nyphur

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Originally by: Dao 2

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Originally by: Nyphur

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Been NPCing for a while out in 0.0. It's good money but I can make the same mining, if not more.

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aye was the same for me before, cept if i hit an office or commander. but now that RMR is out i completely blow away mining. i actually prefer mining too :(

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Maybe you're not mining properly. Large barge, 3 stripminers with max skills and 5 mining drone IIs? Because that'd be roughly equivalent to the skill and price range of a ship you'd need to solo NPC in 0.0. A HAC or battelship fitted with T2 gear and the best skills. I'm using an ishtar with maxed drones skills (except the new ones, only got those to level 3 so far).

I know with that kind of mining kit I always got more mining than I am NPCing. 15-30mil/hour mining is the norm. I can't make that NPCing currently and I have tried. I get close but just shy of the amount I can make mining.

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Originally by: Jenny Spitfire

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OK, my observation is...

0.0 belt NPCing is less boring but only make 1/2 the amount of ISKs comparing to mining crimson/prime Arkanor in 0.0.

It is all balanced. Mining is and has always been more profitable than NPCing but boring. Only that NPCing is more balanced now because it is 1/2 the cash and not 1/4 the cash like it used to be.

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Originally by: Dao 2

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Originally by: Jenny Spitfire

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OK, my observation is...

0.0 belt NPCing is less boring but only make 1/2 the amount of ISKs comparing to mining crimson/prime Arkanor in 0.0.

It is all balanced. Mining is and has always been more profitable than NPCing but boring. Only that NPCing is more balanced now because it is 1/2 the cash and not 1/4 the cash like it used to be.

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o_0
dunno how u get that :|

maybe thats factoring in one account npcing and more than one mining o_0?

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Originally by: Dao 2

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edit: like i said id be making bout 100mil a day tops, usually not on weekdays. i can make that in like 3 1/2 hours now just off the bounties :|

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Originally by: Nyphur

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Originally by: Dao 2

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edit: like i said id be making bout 100mil a day tops, usually not on weekdays. i can make that in like 3 1/2 hours now just off the bounties :|

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You're forgetting the mining mods that just came in, you can mine more now. And you're saying you get 30mil/hour in bounties npcing? Where are you doing this?

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Originally by: Jenny Spitfire

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Originally by: Dao 2

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Originally by: Jenny Spitfire

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OK, my observation is...

0.0 belt NPCing is less boring but only make 1/2 the amount of ISKs comparing to mining crimson/prime Arkanor in 0.0.

It is all balanced. Mining is and has always been more profitable than NPCing but boring. Only that NPCing is more balanced now because it is 1/2 the cash and not 1/4 the cash like it used to be.

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o_0
dunno how u get that :|

maybe thats factoring in one account npcing and more than one mining o_0?

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Hmmmmmmmmmmm, 30 mins mining is about 10M to 15M, and 30 mins NPCing is about 5M if I am lucky to find and kill 5 BSes and lackeys.

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Originally by: Peter Armstrong

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ok WTF people complaining about too much isk?? omg get a grip man. means more people go to 0.0 space and more pvp chances just look at the bigger pic. Hell more isk then keep it that way.

Pirates can have fun now

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Originally by: Jenny Spitfire

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Originally by: Dao 2

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Originally by: Jenny Spitfire

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OK, my observation is...

0.0 belt NPCing is less boring but only make 1/2 the amount of ISKs comparing to mining crimson/prime Arkanor in 0.0.

It is all balanced. Mining is and has always been more profitable than NPCing but boring. Only that NPCing is more balanced now because it is 1/2 the cash and not 1/4 the cash like it used to be.

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o_0
dunno how u get that :|

maybe thats factoring in one account npcing and more than one mining o_0?

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Hmmmmmmmmmmm, 30 mins mining is about 10M to 15M, and 30 mins NPCing is about 5M if I am lucky to find and kill 5 BSes and lackeys.

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Originally by: Dao 2

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Originally by: Jenny Spitfire

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Hmmmmmmmmmmm, 30 mins mining is about 10M to 15M, and 30 mins NPCing is about 5M if I am lucky to find and kill 5 BSes and lackeys.

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i get about 20m an hour mining :|

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Originally by: Jenny Spitfire

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Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 19/12/2005 02:57:22

Originally by: Dao 2

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Originally by: Jenny Spitfire

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Hmmmmmmmmmmm, 30 mins mining is about 10M to 15M, and 30 mins NPCing is about 5M if I am lucky to find and kill 5 BSes and lackeys.

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i get about 20m an hour mining :|

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That means my guesses are more or less matched up with yours. 60 mins of mining should be about 20M to 30M then, and 60 mins of NPCing is probably about 10M to 15M (if lucky, just on bounties and including decent loot, not those "arbalest" stuffs, etc.).

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Originally by: Dao 2

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Originally by: Nyphur

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Originally by: Dao 2

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edit: like i said id be making bout 100mil a day tops, usually not on weekdays. i can make that in like 3 1/2 hours now just off the bounties :|

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You're forgetting the mining mods that just came in, you can mine more now. And you're saying you get 30mil/hour in bounties npcing? Where are you doing this?

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-1.0 system ;p

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Originally by: Dao 2

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have u npced after patch o_0?

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Originally by: Jenny Spitfire

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Originally by: Dao 2

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have u npced after patch o_0?

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Yep.

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Originally by: sableye

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this is agood thing, its the first real incentive for many to live in 0.0 it was kind of stupid that level 4 missiosn paid better, in fact in many ways level 4's still do this just makes 0.0 hunting an alternitive.

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Originally by: Dao 2

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Originally by: Jenny Spitfire

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Originally by: Dao 2

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i have no idea why ur getting ****ty as npcs :S im getting tons of good ones, i can barely find a spawn i could tank mine with ;p

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Maybe you are lucky?

Also, how much are you making around 30 mins of NPCing?

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mostly around 10-15 mil ;p
maybe u got a crappy area to npc in :S dunno how u got 1/4th as much before..... i got just as much

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Originally by: Dao 2

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Originally by: Jenny Spitfire

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Also, how much are you making around 30 mins of NPCing?

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mostly around 10-15 mil ;p
maybe u got a crappy area to npc in :S dunno how u got 1/4th as much before..... i got just as much

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Originally by: Nyphur

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Originally by: Dao 2

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Originally by: Jenny Spitfire

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Also, how much are you making around 30 mins of NPCing?

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mostly around 10-15 mil ;p
maybe u got a crappy area to npc in :S dunno how u got 1/4th as much before..... i got just as much

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That's with the best NPCing in the game. And that amount is perfectly in line with the money made with the best mining in the game.

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Originally by: Torok Nakaht

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OMG i think dao 2 has won the prize for most posts in one thread jesus christ talk about taking over a thread!!!

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Originally by: Pelvic Thrust

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JA LOL

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Originally by: Clavius XIV

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The only problem is that the spawns are a bit too easy and boring. I thought RMR was supposed to make NPC more interesting. There are just not enough NPC with special abilities, and there aren't enough frigs that web and scramble.

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Originally by: Kurenin

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It's not unbalanced. If you have a group, NPCing is inferior to mining or complexing. This can only do good for the game as it will bring more people out into 0.0, which creates diversity and true player content.

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Originally by: Invisible Touch

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A lthough young,Dao has a strong point here.If this continues there's gonna be big time inflation in eve economy.

However, I dont think it will continue. I am pretty sure NPCs are gonna get tougher. Probably the Devs played it on the safe side (and its Christmas also!), b/c of the new npc capabilities. So enjoy it while it lasts. I dont give this situation more than a month.

Finally Exodus is happenning

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Originally by: Dao 2

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Originally by: The Enslaver

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Originally by: David Corbett

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Take note - CCP has actually come closer to balance between mining and NPCing; you'd still make more consistant money mining. So no need to nerf.

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Except, mining causes a shift in isk from other people to you - whereas NPCing causes money to be put into the economy.

Its an interesting change I'll admit. Probably a little over the top though.

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yes ;p

i like some of the changes but theres WAY to much isk being pumped in now

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Originally by: Clavius XIV

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The only problem is that the spawns are a bit too easy and boring. I thought RMR was supposed to make NPC more interesting. There are just not enough NPC with special abilities, and there aren't enough frigs that web and scramble.

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Originally by: Invisible Touch

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A lthough young,Dao has a strong point here.If this continues there's gonna be big time inflation in eve economy.

However, I dont think it will continue. I am pretty sure NPCs are gonna get tougher. Probably the Devs played it on the safe side (and its Christmas also!), b/c of the new npc capabilities. So enjoy it while it lasts. I dont give this situation more than a month.

Finally Exodus is happenning

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Originally by: Jenny Spitfire

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Originally by: Invisible Touch

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A lthough young,Dao has a strong point here.If this continues there's gonna be big time inflation in eve economy.

However, I dont think it will continue. I am pretty sure NPCs are gonna get tougher. Probably the Devs played it on the safe side (and its Christmas also!), b/c of the new npc capabilities. So enjoy it while it lasts. I dont give this situation more than a month.

Finally Exodus is happenning

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Dao may have a strong point but I think not all NPCers in 0.0 are that lucky, TBH. If you do follow the thread, Mining stiil more profitable than NPCing. Loot are excluded because it is purely based on luck.

The current system is fine as it is.

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Originally by: Ayla Vanir

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Originally by: Dao 2

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Originally by: The Enslaver

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Originally by: David Corbett

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Take note - CCP has actually come closer to balance between mining and NPCing; you'd still make more consistant money mining. So no need to nerf.

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Except, mining causes a shift in isk from other people to you - whereas NPCing causes money to be put into the economy.

Its an interesting change I'll admit. Probably a little over the top though.

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yes ;p

i like some of the changes but theres WAY to much isk being pumped in now

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Sorry, I don't get this at all. What's the difference between NPCing for ISK - where I kill an NPC and get ISK for it - and mining for ISK - where I kill a roid and get ISK for it? Each day, new NPCs are created. Each day, new roids are created. Each day some of both are killed. Sometimes the NPC drops loot that wasn't manufactured from minerals by other players. Sometimes that loot is worth hundreds of millions of ISK... or billions, if Escrow pricing is representative of value.

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Originally by: Dao 2

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dunno why ur getting such crap npces... the majority of ppl i talk too are getting equally good npces, and better most of the time cause i have bad luck with commanders ;p

i mean the corp wallet rose well over 100mil yesterday just cause of taxes! (bout 130 by the time i logged off but not much time left in the day by then ;) )

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Originally by: Jenny Spitfire

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Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 20/12/2005 20:23:28

Originally by: Dao 2

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dunno why ur getting such crap npces... the majority of ppl i talk too are getting equally good npces, and better most of the time cause i have bad luck with commanders ;p

i mean the corp wallet rose well over 100mil yesterday just cause of taxes! (bout 130 by the time i logged off but not much time left in the day by then ;) )

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I dunno, but from what I have seen posted in this thread, many seems to be getting the amount of ISKs that is more or less the same as me.

Maybe there is some amount of luck factor here, that is giving some ppl good ISKs and some not so good ISKs. Also, your thread is about NPCing > Mining but most evidence discussed in this thread points towards Mining > NPCing.

I can only say, there is no point for me to argue about this any more and I shall let the viewers decide on this. There is no replacement than trying out yourself rather than take advices from either the OP or me.

My argument as far as I know still remains, which is Mining > NPCing in general excluding "luck" from NPCing.

Bbye.

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Originally by: Xiou Shen

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Obviously Dao hasnt fully thought this through or has never been in a corp that had 8 miners two haulers and 1 tanker, ripping apart a nice arkanor belt, and hauling it to the pos, for 100s of mil isk per hour. Not to mention the fact that the devs seeded new bpos, and isk sinks of the amount never before seen (titan bpo, skills books etc) That is 1000s of billions of isk leaving the world. At the most all this will do is slightly raise mineral prices in empire, as alliances and building corps will still be competitive. So Dao before you run to the boards and scream NERFOMG! think dude. think.

The best thing about this, is that the producers will sell more ships. The npcsers usually tend to be 50-80 % pvp oriented and will now have to cash to buy that omgoverpriced command ship for you guys, which you will make them escrow thier kids to get. This will also stimulate better pvp, as they wont all be forced to fly around in suicide frigates instead they can afford suicide cruisers and t2 ships. So please for the love of all that is good, dont scream nerf unneccesarily. This is imo is a wonderful way to encourage more pvp. Its a win win for everyone, and will create (not lose) market stability when all he big alliances throw a trillion isk at getting a capital ship or two and a couple pilots to fly them.

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Originally by: Daxes

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u ppl here forget one important point:

if a pvper now can make 100 mio in 2-3h instead of 4-5h then this doesnt mean he will now spent more time to make money, no he will just hunt the needed 2-3h and then do something else like pvping.
So the real change here is that ppl who really want to pvp arent forced to grind for hours and just save time.

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