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[Odyssey 1.1] Local Armor and Shield repair module changes

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 7 post(s)
W0lf Crendraven The Tuskers 138	Posted - 2013.08.07 00:32:00 - [331] - Quote Pelea Ming wrote: Wolf, when you decide to start talking real fits, that's fine, but no abaddon is going to go self repping for over 6k hp/s. I know, and no one woudl spend 6 bil pimping it to tank those amounts, it however can do that, which is important as that blinged out generic shield fits get compared to t2 armour tankers and deemed op while the blinged armour tank never gets mentioned.
Pelea Ming Prostitutes Are Always Wlling Care Factor 317	Posted - 2013.08.07 05:20:00 - [332] - Quote you don't even pay attention to what's being said. No properly fit, (regardless of how expensive) Abaddon is going to rep 6k hp/s. Yet you, yet again, just said it does.
Merii Kha'sen GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 2	Posted - 2013.08.07 06:28:00 - [333] - Quote Ellendras Silver wrote: ok don't feel like reading 17 pages of replies... so it might been asked before.. does this 15% boost stack with siege/triage ? Yes, since the 15% is to the base amount of armor repaired. If your repper repairs 1000 armor now, unfit, with no bonuses applied to it, it will repair 1150 armor post-change. At this point any skills and bonuses will stack on top of that, including any modules and rigs that affect the amount.
GeneralNukeEm North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion 6	Posted - 2013.08.07 08:12:00 - [334] - Quote Pelea Ming wrote: you don't even pay attention to what's being said. No properly fit, (regardless of how expensive) Abaddon is going to rep 6k hp/s. Yet you, yet again, just said it does. I'm only a skilless orbit-F1 nullsec supercap blobber and thus don't actually care about elite solo pvp active tanks, but you could at least try applying the scientific method (aka look in EFT) and seeing whether your claims are true. http://i.imgur.com/NloMzDx.jpg (current TQ stats) Overloaded it tanks ~over 9000~ DPS.
Veshta Yoshida PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 754	Posted - 2013.08.07 08:20:00 - [335] - Quote GeneralNukeEm wrote: Pelea Ming wrote: no abaddon is going to go self repping for over 6k hp/s. I'm only a skilless orbit-F1 nullsec supercap blobber and thus don't actually care about elite solo pvp active tanks, but you could at least try applying the scientific method (aka look in EFT) and seeing whether your claims are true. http://i.imgur.com/NloMzDx.jpg (current TQ stats) Overloaded it tanks ~over 9000~ DPS. At zero ISK .. where do you shop? When it comes to pew one must make one's assumptions based on what is realistic/feasible/cost effective .. and unless one is a Russian oligarch or an American banker with a PLEX selling network that fit is .. hmmmmmm.
GeneralNukeEm North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion 6	Posted - 2013.08.07 08:22:00 - [336] - Quote Pretty sure it costs less than a supercap.
Andrew Indy Four Pillar Production Headshot Gaming 15	Posted - 2013.08.07 08:55:00 - [337] - Quote W0lf Crendraven wrote: Pelea Ming wrote: Wolf, when you decide to start talking real fits, that's fine, but no abaddon is going to go self repping for over 6k hp/s. I know, and no one woudl spend 6 bil pimping it to tank those amounts, it however can do that, which is important as that blinged out generic shield fits get compared to t2 armour tankers and deemed op while the blinged armour tank never gets mentioned. Pretty easy to sort this out. i'm using large/XL in this example with the best in class mods Type - Amount - Cycle (secs) - Amount per Second - Amount per Cap T2 Armor - 800 - 15 - 53.33 - 2 T2 Armor 1.1 - 920 - 15 - 61.33 - 2.3 ARR - 1350 - 15 - 90 - 3.375 ARR 1.1 - 1552.5 - 15 - 103.5 - 3.88 True S - 900 - 15 - 60 - 2 True S 1.1 - 1035 - 15 - 69 - 2.3 CorpX - 1260 - 15 - 84 - 2.8 CorpX 1.1 - 1449 - 15 - 96.6 - 3.22 T2 Shield L - 240 - 4 - 60 - 1.5 T2 Shield L 1.1 - 276 - 4 - 69 - 1.73 CN L - 240 - 3.2 - 75 - 1.5 CN L 1.1 - 276 - 3.2 - 86.25 - 1.73 ASB L - 390 - 4 - 97.5 - NA PithX - 336 - 3.2 - 105 - 2.1 T2 Shield XL - 600 - 5 - 120 - 1.5 T2 Shield XL 1.1 690 - 5 - 138 - 1.73 CN XL - 600 - 4 - 150 - 1.5 CN XL 1.1 - 690 - 4 - 172.5 - 1.73 ASB XL - 980 - 5 - 196 - NA PithX - 840 - 4 - 210 - 2.1 Not sure if its clear but for Faction and T2 things are fairly balanced , Shields use more Cap but booster more and sooner. But of these are all getting a boost. Then look at ASB vs AAR, the current ASB L beats the AAR in boost amount, boosting straight away and cap use (none). After the changes the AAR boosts slightly more but still use cap and boosts at the end the cycle and lets not even talk about the XL ASB. DS L Mods look OK, a DS L mod boosts more than a DS L Armour Mod but uses more cap (true before and after the buff). XL however becomes an Issue as the XL boosts over double the DS Armour mod Then through Amps into the equation and stuff shifts towards shields. Edit. I have a mission Paladin with an X type rep and a Friend has a Golem with X type booster+Amp . Each with 2X Resist mods (2x type hardeners) He uses 85 cap per second and reps 1417 DPS vs sansha, I rep 700DPS vs Sansha and use 75. Now i must admit that his ship does not have great Cap regen but as far as the mods go the Booster is a lot more efficient not to mention that his ship has a 0 base resist against EM while mine as a base of 50.
Akturous Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel 219	Posted - 2013.08.07 09:44:00 - [338] - Quote Yeshmiel wrote: Great direction but nerfing the value of the higher end mods is really screwing a lot of people out of a lot of isk. No, I don't have any but this is an effect that needs to be considered. Market speculation isn't really, nor should it be considered in balancing ever. Vote Item Heck One for CSM8
Jezza McWaffle The-Hole-Idea Void-Legion 54	Posted - 2013.08.07 09:48:00 - [339] - Quote Akturous wrote: Yeshmiel wrote: Great direction but nerfing the value of the higher end mods is really screwing a lot of people out of a lot of isk. No, I don't have any but this is an effect that needs to be considered. Market speculation isn't really, nor should it be considered in balancing ever. Then how do you balance deadspace and faction items.
Sigras Conglomo 493	Posted - 2013.08.07 09:55:00 - [340] - Quote GeneralNukeEm wrote: Pelea Ming wrote: no abaddon is going to go self repping for over 6k hp/s. I'm only a skilless orbit-F1 nullsec supercap blobber and thus don't actually care about elite solo pvp active tanks, but you could at least try applying the scientific method (aka look in EFT) and seeing whether your claims are true. http://i.imgur.com/NloMzDx.jpg (current TQ stats) Overloaded it tanks ~over 9000~ DPS. It appears that you misquoted the lady Pelea Ming wrote: you don't even pay attention to what's being said. No properly fit, (regardless of how expensive) Abaddon is going to rep 6k hp/s. Now returning to your picture . . . if you think that is a proper fit you do not belong in PL

xHxHxAOD Southern Cross Incorporated Flying Dangerous 4	Posted - 2013.08.07 12:29:00 - [341] - Quote is there any update from fozzie on this
Pelea Ming Prostitutes Are Always Wlling Care Factor 317	Posted - 2013.08.07 14:22:00 - [342] - Quote Sigras wrote: GeneralNukeEm wrote: Pelea Ming wrote: no abaddon is going to go self repping for over 6k hp/s. I'm only a skilless orbit-F1 nullsec supercap blobber and thus don't actually care about elite solo pvp active tanks, but you could at least try applying the scientific method (aka look in EFT) and seeing whether your claims are true. http://i.imgur.com/NloMzDx.jpg (current TQ stats) Overloaded it tanks ~over 9000~ DPS. It appears that you misquoted the lady Pelea Ming wrote: you don't even pay attention to what's being said. No properly fit, (regardless of how expensive) Abaddon is going to rep 6k hp/s. Now returning to your picture . . . if you think that is a proper fit you do not belong in PL Thank you very much for pointing that out, and again, I stick to my original statement, to wit, proper fit.

CCP Fozzie C C P C C P Alliance 7282	Posted - 2013.08.07 16:37:00 - [343] - Quote Ok, update to the plan. We're adjusting the buff to some forms of shield boosters (CN/DG, Large and X-L deadspace/officer) We're also exempting capital reps and boosters from this change for now until we've dealt with Pulsar and Wolf Rayet bonuses. ASBs still not getting changed. New version of the changelist: Increase the rep amount for all subcap armor repairers (including AARs) by 15% Increase the shield bonus of some subcap shield boosters (T1, Meta, T2, Storyline, Domination, Republic Fleet) by 15% Increase the shield bonus of Large Deadspace/Officer, X-Large Deadspace/Officer shield boosters by 10% Increase the shield bonus of Caldari Navy and Dread Guristas shield boosters by 5% No change to Small/Medium Deadspace boosters, all sizes of ASBs, Capital boosters, Capital reps Let us know what you think! Game Designer \| Team Five-0 https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/

Omnathious Deninard Novis Initiis 1431	Posted - 2013.08.07 16:40:00 - [344] - Quote CCP Fozzie wrote: Ok, update to the plan. We're adjusting the buff to some forms of shield boosters (CN/DG, Large and X-L deadspace/officer) We're also exempting capital reps and boosters from this change for now until we've dealt with Pulsar and Wolf Rayet bonuses. ASBs still not getting changed. New version of the changelist: Increase the rep amount for all subcap armor repairers (including AARs) by 15% Increase the shield bonus of some subcap shield boosters (T1, Meta, T2, Storyline, Domination, Republic Fleet) by 15% Increase the shield bonus of Large Deadspace/Officer, X-Large Deadspace/Officer shield boosters by 10% Increase the shield bonus of Caldari Navy and Dread Guristas shield boosters by 5% No change to Small/Medium Deadspace boosters, all sizes of ASBs, Capital boosters, Capital reps Let us know what you think! So, no cap usage reduction for armor repairers? that is quite a problem still. Ideas for Drone ImprovementTwitter Account-á @Omnathious
Max Kolonko High Voltage Industries Ash Alliance 337	Posted - 2013.08.07 16:40:00 - [345] - Quote Hey, Pulsar is not a problem, deal with it. You made Shield and Armor WH to make them more harder with Shield or Armor ships. So why talking about "FIXING" Pulsar and Rayets? Read and support: Don't mess with OUR WH's What is Your stance on WH stuff?
Altrue Exploration Frontier inc 535	Posted - 2013.08.07 16:47:00 - [346] - Quote Nice changes ! A bit sad for ASBs though, it could have been useful to buff them too, but I understand how much pressure people can produce :o G££ <= Me
Harvey James Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State 435	Posted - 2013.08.07 16:57:00 - [347] - Quote FOZZIE come on fozzie this doesn't address the underlying problems with armour tanking at all... Please tell me you will have a much more thorough fix of armour repping down the line at least??? Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name AB's need a buff-á like a big mass reduction ... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please.
Batelle Komm susser Tod 152	Posted - 2013.08.07 16:58:00 - [348] - Quote + Increase the repair amount for all armor repairers (including AARs) by 15% + Increase the shield bonus of all shield boosters (except for deadspace/officer reps and ASBs) by 15% I would like to point out that this results in a boost to all local tanking except for the deadspace shield boosters. This is a good thing as we both A) don't get anything nerfed. B) non-deadspace shield boosting as well as armor tanking of the pimped and non-pimped variety becomes more viable. This is something that has been needed for years, independent of any changes to links. Bravo. Fighting is Magic
Wrayeth Inexorable Retribution 99	Posted - 2013.08.07 17:02:00 - [349] - Quote CCP Fozzie wrote: Increase the rep amount for all subcap armor repairers (including AARs) by 15% Let us know what you think! Oh God, my deadspace-fit PvP Paladin will be repping 4600 per cycle. Note to self: upgrade the rigs to tech II.
Heribeck Weathers Caldari Provisions Caldari State 72	Posted - 2013.08.07 17:05:00 - [350] - Quote Definatly a lovely buff for solo/small gang pvp, tho sadly also a buff for pve

Aimee Maken State War Academy Caldari State 11	Posted - 2013.08.07 17:14:00 - [351] - Quote i think the new changes works out for bling pve and pvp, more pve tho given that ASB in comparison is still much better than pith for burst tank for much less the price than pith + cap booster
Phoenix Jones Shockwave Innovations Surely You're Joking 146	Posted - 2013.08.07 17:21:00 - [352] - Quote CCP Fozzie wrote: Ok, update to the plan. We're adjusting the buff to some forms of shield boosters (CN/DG, Large and X-L deadspace/officer) We're also exempting capital reps and boosters from this change for now until we've dealt with Pulsar and Wolf Rayet bonuses. ASBs still not getting changed. New version of the changelist: Increase the rep amount for all subcap armor repairers (including AARs) by 15% Increase the shield bonus of some subcap shield boosters (T1, Meta, T2, Storyline, Domination, Republic Fleet) by 15% Increase the shield bonus of Large Deadspace/Officer, X-Large Deadspace/Officer shield boosters by 10% Increase the shield bonus of Caldari Navy and Dread Guristas shield boosters by 5% No change to Small/Medium Deadspace boosters, all sizes of ASBs, Capital boosters, Capital reps Let us know what you think! That's digestible. I would not go beyond that atm though.
Mara Maken Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 2	Posted - 2013.08.07 17:23:00 - [353] - Quote Any consideration to the insane repoint power this will create for te already op dual rep Incursus? There was a slight nerf to the Incursus repoint power in a previous release but now it's getting a buff again. I understand most fights you can disengage due to the lack of a web on the dual rep but the repoint power is too damn high for a T1 frig.
Maximus Andendare Future Corps Sleeper Social Club 411	Posted - 2013.08.07 17:29:00 - [354] - Quote Omnathious Deninard wrote: CCP Fozzie wrote: Ok, update to the plan. We're adjusting the buff to some forms of shield boosters (CN/DG, Large and X-L deadspace/officer) We're also exempting capital reps and boosters from this change for now until we've dealt with Pulsar and Wolf Rayet bonuses. ASBs still not getting changed. New version of the changelist: Increase the rep amount for all subcap armor repairers (including AARs) by 15% Increase the shield bonus of some subcap shield boosters (T1, Meta, T2, Storyline, Domination, Republic Fleet) by 15% Increase the shield bonus of Large Deadspace/Officer, X-Large Deadspace/Officer shield boosters by 10% Increase the shield bonus of Caldari Navy and Dread Guristas shield boosters by 5% No change to Small/Medium Deadspace boosters, all sizes of ASBs, Capital boosters, Capital reps Let us know what you think! So, no cap usage reduction for armor repairers? that is quite a problem still. I have to join this bandwagon. It doesn't make any sense that shield local reps are far more powerful, require no cap (in ASBs) and can fit larger modules, all taking up one slot. In order to effectively local armor tank, you need a minimum of two modules (cap booster and repper), and most of the time you have to double or triple rep (which necessitates another cap booster). I just don't know how reasonable it is to expect that there's going to be scores of adopters for local armor tanking giving these glaring differences. Granted, I am not advocating for homogenizing shield and armor tanking. I am, however, advocating to being provided with the reasoning why I'd use a local armor tank given all the deficiencies. I understand that local armor tanking's "thought" is that you have more sustained tanking potential (for an "over-the-course-of-the-fight" mentality) and with shield you can tank very effectively under burst conditions. I think those differences are great. But, then, how do you reconcile the fact that a sustained armor tank "over-the-course-of-the-fight" is going to consume FAR much more cap than a shield setup? (This isn't even considering that armor-tanking-focused ships' weapon systems require either the most cap or second most cap (compared to none).) Without some sort of cap reduction, I don't think it's viable to think that local armor reps will be adopted outside the most specialized scenario (bait tanking) or for the random (and RARE) solo encounter. Cap independent, oversized, huge-rep ASB shield setups are going to remain king for local reps. There's a reason you see Brutixes being tanked with an XLASB and Invul over using those 6 lows to take advantage of its hull bonus. Step onto the battlefield, and you're already dead, born again at the end of the battle to live on and fight another day.
MeBiatch Republic University Minmatar Republic 1203	Posted - 2013.08.07 17:42:00 - [355] - Quote Mara Maken wrote: Any consideration to the insane repoint power this will create for te already op dual rep Incursus? There was a slight nerf to the Incursus repoint power in a previous release but now it's getting a buff again. I understand most fights you can disengage due to the lack of a web on the dual rep but the repoint power is too damn high for a T1 frig. its called a nuet and most incursus dont fit a cap booster. There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Hybrid tech I ammo boost
Mara Maken Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 3	Posted - 2013.08.07 18:00:00 - [356] - Quote MeBiatch wrote: Mara Maken wrote: Any consideration to the insane repoint power this will create for te already op dual rep Incursus? There was a slight nerf to the Incursus repoint power in a previous release but now it's getting a buff again. I understand most fights you can disengage due to the lack of a web on the dual rep but the repoint power is too damn high for a T1 frig. its called a nuet and most incursus dont fit a cap booster. If you aren't running a cap booster on a dual rep Incursus you are doing it wrong.
MeBiatch Republic University Minmatar Republic 1203	Posted - 2013.08.07 18:09:00 - [357] - Quote Mara Maken wrote: MeBiatch wrote: Mara Maken wrote: Any consideration to the insane repoint power this will create for te already op dual rep Incursus? There was a slight nerf to the Incursus repoint power in a previous release but now it's getting a buff again. I understand most fights you can disengage due to the lack of a web on the dual rep but the repoint power is too damn high for a T1 frig. its called a nuet and most incursus dont fit a cap booster. If you aren't running a cap booster on a dual rep Incursus you are doing it wrong. i guess all those FW plexes i did was wrong then. anywho... if they are cap boosted then you just need to kite them untill they run out then they die.... still dont see what the problem is. There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Hybrid tech I ammo boost
Urkhan Law Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo 7	Posted - 2013.08.07 18:16:00 - [358] - Quote Usually dual rep Incursus do have a cap booster, problem is not the dual rep incursus, you can always get out from that fight since they don't carry a web. Single rep Incursus is already very good, it is fast in their class, hits very hard with blasters or rails, and now it tanks like a boss. I understand that this is just a collateral effect since the buffs to armor reps are very welcome, but I wouldn't be surprised to see way more incursus flying around after the next patch. And the blue ones know it, that's why they nerfed the ship bonus when SAAR was deployed in game.
Mara Maken Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 3	Posted - 2013.08.07 18:35:00 - [359] - Quote MeBiatch wrote: Mara Maken wrote: MeBiatch wrote: Mara Maken wrote: Any consideration to the insane repoint power this will create for te already op dual rep Incursus? There was a slight nerf to the Incursus repoint power in a previous release but now it's getting a buff again. I understand most fights you can disengage due to the lack of a web on the dual rep but the repoint power is too damn high for a T1 frig. its called a nuet and most incursus dont fit a cap booster. If you aren't running a cap booster on a dual rep Incursus you are doing it wrong. i guess all those FW plexes i did was wrong then. anywho... if they are cap boosted then you just need to kite them untill they run out then they die.... still dont see what the problem is. You ran a dual rep with no booster? What was your cap, can be more then 30 seconds. Anyway, if you want to wait out their cap boosters prepare for 30 minutes of shooting.. this does happen. I guess just like the dual MASB Hawk.. solo 1v1 against the Incursus is usually an exercise in frustration.
Corporal Cina Offworld Miners and Fabricators Guild 2	Posted - 2013.08.07 18:47:00 - [360] - Quote I still don't understand why you can fit two (or more) ASB but only one AAR. Why does the AAR not get a cap use reduction when using paste? (not cap free.. just some kind of reduction?) I realize the ASB doesn't get as big of a boost compared to the AAR, but to be capless is everything. Fozzie, do you have future plans to even out the armor/shield tanking disparity? dual XLASB fits on armor rep bonused ships should speak louder than any words I can say. (Myrm/Brutix etc)



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