| Pages: 1 2 3 4 [5] 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 .. 12 :: one page |
|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Ravenal
   |
Posted - 2006.01.02 02:12:00 -
[121]
before pod technology as indicated in the Scientific articles ships had crews...
now, its mixed.
.
Ravenal - Fate is what you make of it.
|
Tyrrax Thorrk
|
Posted - 2006.01.02 02:28:00 -
[122]
-iscorporation did write that story.
None of the people I know (and I know a few) who write prime fiction ascribe to this nonsense of there not being any crew or that you can replace them with robots, you're just deluding yourselves if you think thousands of people don't die every time one of your battleships goes boom.
Life is cheap, deal with it.
|
Nikolai Nuvolari
|
Posted - 2006.01.02 02:37:00 -
[123]
 Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk
-iscorporation did write that story.
That's actually how the name is spelled? I didn't realize that...how do you type that character in the forums?
----------------------------------------------------------------[04:04:04] Tom Thumb > for a nut case you rawk
[04:21:15] Mebrithiel Ju'wien > Nik's bio 4tw btw |
Kefra
|
Posted - 2006.01.02 02:57:00 -
[124]
Edited by: Kefra on 02/01/2006 03:02:20
Edited by: Kefra on 02/01/2006 02:59:08
Originally by: ZYMOTICAL
If you want to roleplay that your ships have crews fine. Mine do not.
My Dominix is controlled by my thoughts alone. When I stretch out a hand and clench my fist, my 425mm Railguns lock and fire. When I will myself to move in a direction, the thrusters align the ship and the main engines kick in. Over time I have refined this control so that I can do things such as fire at multiple targets, keep multiple modules running and manage my multitude of drones.
All maintenance action onboard my ship is taken care of by AI-controlled robotic drones which crawl through the corridors that the crew once used. The Dominix was once a crewed vessel, before I modified it to accept a pod control center. I have robotic lifters to move and stack cargo, and nanomechanical drones to repair small ruptures in the hull.
You people take this discussion way too far, and it doesn't matter at all. My ships have no crew, yours do. Who cares? Why argue... lets all just play EVE.
My ship is run much like yours, but I personally run a very small crew (10 - 12 people) to oversee the systems in the ship, deal with station authorities and to oversee the proper transfer of cargo while I am in the pod.
They also help with the programming of drones and do in flight maintinace of the drone system. I hired them and installed the drone system to avoid slave labor (I believe everyone in their right mind will see the greatness of our faith. There is no need to subjegate them). Most are Ni-Kunnis, all are paid and on my ship of their free will.
The technology is there. It can be whatever you want...
There is nothing to fear in death, for no one has come back to complain about it.
|
j0sephine
|
Posted - 2006.01.02 05:25:00 -
[125]
"I'm the author of that story."
Oi, and i had no idea whatsoever (although found the visual similarity of pilot portrayed there quite amusing) ... you Sir should've bragged more explicitly about being the author ;o
(thank you for taking your time to write it, enjoyed reading it a lot. ^^
|
DigitalCommunist
|
Posted - 2006.01.02 05:36:00 -
[126]
Ships do have crew.. frigs are the only ones I know of which can be replaced by a single pod.
But fancy that, I've probably participated in the death of ten to fifty million souls. Now if only a hundred isk was added to my bounty for each person I murdered.. EVE would get very interesting!
CCP was toying with the idea of interchangeable ship systems (engines, grid.. not hardpoints) and crews in beta, but scrapped it due to the time constraints. You might however, be interested in hearing that the idea has resurfaced recently and is no doubt a feature of one of the upcoming 7 expansions.
|
Nikolai Nuvolari
|
Posted - 2006.01.02 06:17:00 -
[127]
Originally by: DigitalCommunist
the upcoming 7 expansions.
 CCP: Skilltraining Advanced Planning Level 5 complete.
----------------------------------------------------------------[04:04:04] Tom Thumb > for a nut case you rawk
[04:21:15] Mebrithiel Ju'wien > Nik's bio 4tw btw |
Tyrrax Thorrk
|
Posted - 2006.01.02 11:25:00 -
[128]
Originally by: Nikolai Nuvolari
Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk
-iscorporation did write that story.
That's actually how the name is spelled? I didn't realize that...how do you type that character in the forums?
Having an icelandic keyboard helps 
|
Noden Vorpalstar
|
Posted - 2006.01.02 11:42:00 -
[129]
Edited by: Noden Vorpalstar on 02/01/2006 11:43:06
As a new pilot I think that the larger ships having crews makes alot more sense. And it is pointed out in various parts of the fiction both here on the website and in EON.
Crew's are even mentioned in EON. In the article on page 20 Super Size Eve.
Also in the story Exchange Rate on page 18.
With that said I assume that when I'm flying my Incursus around and talking to people out in space I'm the only person in my little frigate. Unless I'm taking some passangers aroudn for an agent.
|
Fallout2man
|
Posted - 2006.01.02 11:42:00 -
[130]
Originally by: Kamui Shiro
To me this debate seems pointless. If you are not a role player, then who cares?
To have or to not have a crew in ships should only matter to Role Players. I role play and i prefer the having a crew part. For frigates and small ships a one man pilot would be enough but for anything bigger, i prefer having a crew. It just seems more logical and more realistic to see it that way. Think of having this big battleship and only 1 guy in an egg piloting it. Why the hell would he need all those lights on the ship's interior? Its just silly... so cruisers, Battleships, anything big have crews, frigates can be a one man show. Only if CCP decides to turn off all those lights on the bigger ships will i think otherwise.
That's how i like to look at things from a Role Play point of view. Every damn space game and sci-fi show had crews in their spaceships. Star Trek, Star Wars, Andromeda, etc.
This is not entirely true. It matters to anyone proposing a number of other ideas related to crews. Personally I think a first person interior of ships with a full crew of people to explore and/or talk to, or just extra bonuses by say, hiring and/or training a good crew would require this subject to matter. As if it's totally against canon, you just can't do it, but if not then these ideas could add something nice to eve.
|
|
|
Luffe
|
Posted - 2006.01.02 11:51:00 -
[131]
Ships have crew. Why? Let's do some historical stuff first.
On a typical naval ship you have bridge crew, gun crew, damage control crew, electrical crew, sailors etc doing many different jobs. Which have different job requirements. Like painting the ship, cleaning the toilets, loading guns, plotting navigation routes etc. How does the chain of command in naval ship work? You have The Captain giving orders to XO etc. All way to down to ship's cat.
The pod technology allows the removal of the bridge crew. Which traditional is most vunerable to miscommunications and has most experienced officers in same vunerable area. Read the 2nd world war stories where one single 88mm he shell removed whole bridge crew from the freighter. Making the ship totally headless.
How this history applies to Eve? One, you have the captain(pod pilot) giving orders thru neural net to crews thus bypassing the need of expensive trained officers and crews in bridge area also without possibility of mis communications. Two, you need human intervention when crap hits the fan. No machine can replace human in certain situations simply due to simple fact of adaptation. Robots/automated systems are usually made into one single purpose or function. Humans have the capability to do many things easily. Read any war stories about naval crews repairing the damaged ship in a way that is not possible?
Why does not Concord care about crews? Simple. Read the prime fiction. Overpopulation in many worlds and poverty making crew members easily replaced. Also that pod technology is very very expensive making it corporate policy. Corporations have lots of money, and what money brings? Power. Power to enforce what they want. Thus making pod pilots very very expensive and such guarded treasure or better comparison would be investment.
Another history analogy with British Naval age (19th century). Crews were just tools needed to man the ships. No one cared if the crew died. But enemies tried always to ransom the naval captain if possible. Not many cared about those british crews that died at Trafalgar. But every one mourned loss of Nelson.
|
Maestro Ulv
|
Posted - 2006.01.02 11:52:00 -
[132]
Originally by: w0rmy
But if we're talking fiction here, my ships have been modified, so I can fly them by myself without endangering anyone else. It means a hell of a lot more work for me, hence why I suck so bad.
Meh. Mine have crews but all the ships have a quick injector survival system that cocoons crew at there station and the pilot in a sealed breathable enviroment and ejects them directly into warp, hence no visible crew if I lose the ship.
The pilots however always pop out next to the lost ship to check for stragglers and any equipment that survived before warping to safety.
Of course any crew not at station is screwed but thats what they sign the contract for. If im unlucky enough to be wandering the ship at the time of engagment then im toast to, so far I have always been in the command seat.
Anyone wishing to purchase modified ships can contact me in game. Only Phaze9 boats have such a system at this time.
I should know, I write it in my fan fiction :p RP FTW!
http://phaze9.moonmanstudio.com/
|
Sheriff Jones
|
Posted - 2006.01.02 11:57:00 -
[133]
You can have crews?
I've always, if let's say i wanted to change frequency crystals, had to get up from my seat, run down to the turret bay, switch the, dang heavy i might add, crystals, then run back up, sit down and press fire.
Then i have to get up, run BACK down to the turret bay, press the red button on the cannon and run back up to see if i hit anything.
By this time, my ship usually looks like swiss cheese at a winparty and i have to run down to my Can't-Believe-It's-Not-A-Pod(tm) i bought from a little shop in The Forge, push it to the edge of the hangar bay, get in and wait for the gravity field to shut down due to extreme damage.
It's quite a hazzle really.
|
BrerLapin
|
Posted - 2006.01.02 13:16:00 -
[134]
Sigh you realise the level of automation our current army has is tantamount to not needing human interaction.
M1A4 original design for example empty turret & autoloaded. Obviously financially it wouldnt have been viable but EVE is a universe where drones & shielded spaceships are viable so I dont think automating the reloading of weapons would be a big deal.
Also the MTBF of systems must be huge negating the need for repair unless damaged in conflict so exempting conflict an automated EVE ship could run for much longer than our playing time before a server shutdown.
These Minmatar are a laugh the two that have posted its only crew who cares. Your minmatar your crew is your tribe & all that fuedal BS :p. Minmatar wouldnt function with a slave crew either, I find it dubious if theyd even use convicts (Being a bit close to the bone).
The perversity of the Universe tends towards a maximum - O'Toole's Corollary of Finagle's Law |
Zirator
|
Posted - 2006.01.02 13:47:00 -
[135]
I agree that ships have crews. People bring the fact that they don't pay upkeep for their crew so how can there be crew. I only ask them when was the last time your character bought something to eat from the ISK that he earned?
|
Theonlystd
|
Posted - 2006.01.02 13:55:00 -
[136]
Wow some of the poeple in this thread like to troll or are just plain dumb.
Not to mention all the fan fiction saying theres crew, or just talking about replacing the bridge type crew nothing about basic maintence stuff.
There things are huger than anythign we have. They make our biggist objects look small. Our largist objects require lots and lots of maintence. And even if its partly did by robots they can only do so much. If a robot breaks down or something that happens the robot doesnt udner stand your sure as hell going to hope you have humans on board.
I mean really Titan only crewed by a pod pilot and Ai controlled robootss riighhtt.
As its been said its a harsh over populated future where life is cheap. Crew members are expendable.
-------------------------------------------
Aye Spellcheck is beyond me along with propper grammer. |
Tsual
|
Posted - 2006.01.02 13:58:00 -
[137]
Edited by: Tsual on 02/01/2006 14:00:23
The story Forsaken Ruins answers speaks about the crew question:
On page 32 the second paragraph tells following:
Quote:
Before starting the long journey back to Empire space, the remaining crewmembers of the Blackbird and Omen cruisers were transferred to CONCORD ships. The vessels were then scuttled outside of the Immensea station in E8-YS9.
If that isn't enough evidence then how about the words of an Yovian, one of the Race that developped tha capsuel and has technology on the highest level.
Therefore lets take a look at "The Yovian wet grave" on page 4:
Quote:
"This is a capsule," Anu said to the Caldari. "It is used to control a ship. With it a ship a big as this one can be controlled with only a handful of crew and smaller ships, like your frigates, can even be controlled by a single person."
he even specifies it:
Quote:
"The controller, captain if you like, of the ship is stationed inside the capsule. Through it, he's neural rigged to all parts of the ship. The capsule is like one gigantic computer, with the captain at the core, controlling everything." Any answered.
"But how can a single man control a whole ship?" Ouriye pressed.
"Thank you, captain, I was coming to that. As I said, the captain acts as the central unit in a highly advanced computer. This role allows him to access and evaluate data at extreme pace. He can easily handle the jobs it takes 5 or 10 people to do normally. It also makes him a better commander, he has better understanding and awareness of his environment and he's not boggled down by tedious crew management issues and frequent communication breakdowns are now history." Anu finished, looking over the faces of the thoughtful Caldari standing before him.
"So what is the downside?" Pirkotan asked. "There is always a downside."
Not in this case, lieutenant," Anu replied. "The capsule offers greater control to ships, yet fewer crew members. As you know one of the biggest costs in maintaining a ship is training the crew, this cost is now much reduced. We Jovians are not numerous, yet we can field a very formidable fleet because of capsules."
(Besides that they still have not corrected an slight name spelling error in two years, this story should be studied extensively by any pod pilot wanting to RP.)
Fact a you have to get over:
1)You are constantly wearing implants as pod pilot - not represented by gameplay - you are what in shadowrun 2.0 is called a Rigger.
In worst case you back looks like those of Neo, Trinity, Morpheus and so on in Matrix.
(Funnily near to no one noticed this fact.)
2)Small ships need no crew only a place to dock for maintenance, bigger ships need maintenance crew (two much internal sensors to watch for a pod pilot), even Yovian have to deal with the issue of maintenance crews.
(Besides in the Battle of Vak'Atith they attacked a Amarrian mixed Battleship - Cruiser Fleet with Frigats and Cruisers and let a Mothership do the main work ... could be connected to the issue of not sacrificing maintenance crew.)
--------------------------------------
Haanem ulwei, utnazhiram Hal'sha'roh mahiraam Hor'thul.
The Universe is everything, the creation Hal'shah and the destruction Hor'thul.
|
BrerLapin
|
Posted - 2006.01.02 14:11:00 -
[138]
Sigh 'OMG their spaceships so they must be hard to work.'
Human beings presence on a spaceship buggers the whole deal up. Life support, space requirements, insulation, shielding, venting. Its easier to design a vehicle minus the human being. The pod replaces all of these things I assume the pod is a nutrient solution (i think its mentioned in fact) . We are an advanced civilisation at the moment its alot easier for a switch to be pressed than a person to switch it physically (God bless the remote control) Bear in mind Battleships 3 kilometres long still only have 8 guns max so there arent that many devices that need attention.
Id love to see crew in game even in a 'Pirates' style . Where you dock & replace your loses from a dozen men. Say less than 60% of the crew rating you have a -5% all & at 90% you get a +5% to all.
The perversity of the Universe tends towards a maximum - O'Toole's Corollary of Finagle's Law |
Time Killer
|
Posted - 2006.01.02 14:38:00 -
[139]
Eh... I always figured that the smaller ships (read frigates) didn't need any flight crew and the time spent in the hangars would be when mechanics, janitors etc swarmed over them. Indys as well - they have automated robot arms to load, unload yadda yadda. Converting a ship to pod use means they can pull out all the tedious life support, atmosphere etc and replace the essentials with automated systems like reloading mechanisms.
Bigger ships I can still see needing crew and I always played with the thought that Destroyers and bigger had at least 1 other person to whole handfuls of skeleton crew for battleships. But even then it's still not the thousands that the non-pod ships need. The Navy ships talked about the fiction seem to be kind of halfway. Not pod-piloted but still with many of the automated features.
TBH it only matters if you're roleplaying and as most people don't I don't see what the big deal is here. |
Nikolai Nuvolari
|
Posted - 2006.01.02 15:48:00 -
[140]
Originally by: Tsual
In worst case you back looks like those of Neo, Trinity, Morpheus and so on in Matrix.
(Funnily near to no one noticed this fact.)
We only need one neural jack, in the backs of our necks. The rest of the plugs that Neo & friends had were for life-support-related things, because they were supposed to stay in their "pods" for their whole lives. The one in the neck is the only one used for hooking the brain into the system.
----------------------------------------------------------------[04:04:04] Tom Thumb > for a nut case you rawk
[04:21:15] Mebrithiel Ju'wien > Nik's bio 4tw btw |
|
|
Derak
|
Posted - 2006.01.02 15:56:00 -
[141]
back in the day perhaps even before the game was launched (was a while ago kind of foggy) there were ship specs posted somewhere on the old site that listed the active crew hence the ships have crews. frigs had like 2 or 4 bigger ships had bigger crews. but nano and pod advancement may have done away with them by now, still though the originals had crews
|
Rychek
|
Posted - 2006.01.02 17:59:00 -
[142]
the old paperback strategy guide from back when the game first came out also listed the ships crew numbers. just to throw more fuel on the fire.
|
ZYMOTICAL
|
Posted - 2006.01.02 19:27:00 -
[143]
You guys are taking this way too far.
The guy who posted above said "I'm going to ram CCP's ways down your throat."
Well, no you're not. I'll roleplay however I want to, and you can't do a damn thing about it. My ships have no crew, its all automated. So sorry that doesn't mesh with your ideal of the EVE universe. Deal with it.
|
BrerLapin
|
Posted - 2006.01.02 20:58:00 -
[144]
Their called RP ****s & basically their all sad little men :D
If you can justify your arguement you state logical facts, if your following your own agenda & overcompensating you swear & curse & call people idiots.
The perversity of the Universe tends towards a maximum - O'Toole's Corollary of Finagle's Law |
Rychek
|
Posted - 2006.01.02 21:18:00 -
[145]
Originally by: BrerLapin
Their called RP ****s & basically their all sad little men :D
If you can justify your arguement you state logical facts,
That has been done a multitude of times, try reading the entire thread before you reply.
|
Rychek
|
Posted - 2006.01.02 21:18:00 -
[146]
Originally by: ZYMOTICAL
You guys are taking this way too far.
The guy who posted above said "I'm going to ram CCP's ways down your throat."
Well, no you're not. I'll roleplay however I want to, and you can't do a damn thing about it. My ships have no crew, its all automated. So sorry that doesn't mesh with your ideal of the EVE universe. Deal with it.
You kinda miss the point. While you are right in that you can rp it anyway you want, the point being debated here is highlighted in your quote
"so sorry that doesn't mesh with your ideal of..."
Go back to the "your" part of that. We are debating, basically, what CCP's rp view on the situation is, he isn't saying he is going to cram his personal views down your throat so much as he is going to cram CCP's personal views down it. And considering that CCP designed the game, most give thier view a bit more weight.
|
ZYMOTICAL
|
Posted - 2006.01.02 21:26:00 -
[147]
Originally by: Rychek
Originally by: ZYMOTICAL
You guys are taking this way too far.
The guy who posted above said "I'm going to ram CCP's ways down your throat."
Well, no you're not. I'll roleplay however I want to, and you can't do a damn thing about it. My ships have no crew, its all automated. So sorry that doesn't mesh with your ideal of the EVE universe. Deal with it.
You kinda miss the point. While you are right in that you can rp it anyway you want, the point being debated here is highlighted in your quote
"so sorry that doesn't mesh with your ideal of..."
Go back to the "your" part of that. We are debating, basically, what CCP's rp view on the situation is, he isn't saying he is going to cram his personal views down your throat so much as he is going to cram CCP's personal views down it. And considering that CCP designed the game, most give thier view a bit more weight.
First of all, Noone is going to cram ANYTHING down my throat. Ok?
lol, anyway... The reason I, and so many others, say that a crew doesn't make sense is that there is nothing INGAME about them. Fiction is all well and good, but its just stories. In the GAME there is no mention of any sort. It doesn't make sense from a logical perspective.(A ship with a MWD accelerates so fast that the 'crew' would be a red paste on the wall, I don't have to buy food, I don't have to justify self-destructing the ship, My minmatar ship and crew will happily carry minmatar slaves around without protest, blah blah blah)
So until someone with some WEIGHT like a DEV or GM(NOT some silly story writer) says otherwise, I will roleplay as if I have no crew. If you don't want to, fine... but don't be telling me over and over that I have to roleplay a certain way because a crappy story says so.
|
GoGo Yubari
|
Posted - 2006.01.02 22:32:00 -
[148]
Originally by: ZYMOTICAL
The same cannot be said if you try to feed *6000* people for any length of time. Hauling around that much food cannot be 'abstracted out'.
Yes, it can.
In fact, it's already been done right here on Eve and if you agree with that or not hasn't anything to do with it.
kthxbye.
|
Kildorn
|
Posted - 2006.01.02 22:36:00 -
[149]
Edited by: Kildorn on 02/01/2006 22:36:56
Just as an odd "further reference" bit, a lot of Amarr's mission lines (and a few of their commodities), reference slave crews of minmatar aboard Amarr Navy ships ingame.
So it's not just the website fiction that's talking about it, the mission text discusses slaves aboard Amarr ships, and the flavor text on amarr trade goods that are questionably legal anywhere else describes how they keep them from taking over the ship.
edit: http://www.eve-online.com/itemdatabase/tradegoods/narcotics/3713.asp There we are.
|
Rychek
|
Posted - 2006.01.02 22:41:00 -
[150]
Originally by: ZYMOTICAL
Originally by: Rychek
As far as "feeding" your crew, I assume you know how dumb that comparison is. As you don't ever have to "feed" yourself either, or clean the crap off the inside of your pod for that matter. Somethings are better left to the imagination.
Don't forget the "official" strategy guide had the crew numbers in it.
Regardless, I never said you had to, or 'should' for that matter, roleplay any way other than how YOU want too. Don't be so defensive.
No, I don't consider it a dumb comparison. It's not hard to imagine that the pod systems sustain my body and that nutrients are acquired whenever I dock. If I were the only one on board my battleship, there is plenty of space to store such nutrients and they could easily be abstracted out.
The same cannot be said if you try to feed *6000* people for any length of time. Hauling around that much food cannot be 'abstracted out'.
Well if your going to ignore the rest of my response, Ill ignore this one.
|
|
|
|
|
| |
|
| Pages: 1 2 3 4 [5] 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 .. 12 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |