You know covetors are prime gank targets right? If you fly a skiff or procurer with a tank, most people won't bother you unless they hate you in particular.

Though I know someone who ganked a skiff so show it could be done.

stuff

A miner gets ganked in a hulk (or covetor). He's ganked by an alt corp or large corp. War is declared within seconds of the successful gank.

*poof*- alt corp gankers are offline for the duration.

Large corp gankers, run back to 0.0 or low sec.

But when the inevitable happens... we can't fight back. The targets are either NPC corps, stealthy alt corps, or full out alliance connected corporations. Even in corps of hundreds of people... we cannot retaliate. The perpetrators come to empire space specifically to hassle miners, then leave.

And WE want to retaliate! But keeping an alt corp logged off for a month is not retaliation. Declaring war against a 0.0 alliance is not retaliation- the alliance has a tactical advantage in their own space.... a 100 man empire corp is not going to successfully jump all the way into 0.0 and engage a sov holding alliance. Not happening.

Yes, wardecs shouldn't be so trivial to evade. Don't blame gankers for that.



And? Nobody is gonna call a CTA to stop you from killing a ganker.



Again, you have the ability to leave highsec.



Form up a BLOPS gang, find a ganker, and tackle and murder them. You don't even need to pay wardec fees! Our enemies do it all the time, you can too.

So what you're saying is that you can't think of a response against me.

If you move to nullsec you can just kill everyone you don't want in your systems. That solves the problem, right?

Nope... I'm saying it's the appropriate response.

As has been said in other threads, there are ways for alert pilots to avoid being ganked- perhaps at a 50/50 success rate.

The amount of people not actually reading the first post is staggering.

For what it's worth, i agree that there need to be more consequences to random ganking. Or rather, there should be consequences in the first place.

Strangely enough, gankers and griefers are preaching 'eve is hard, deal with it', but when faced with possibl consequences for their currently ridiculously easy and safe playstyle they suddenly whine and cry about "carebears being catered to". I would tell them to look up the word 'hypocricy', but i think that would only result in their tiny brains being unable face the facts and instead resorting to random insults.

Yup, I'm posting anonymously. Make of that what you will.

I own multiple characters, and I'm a fairly rich industrialist in the game. I've headed an alliance, held sov, know how to fight, and date back to 2004.

Recently returned to the game to find a more or less all out war on industrialists. I'm going to state my case, understanding I will be flamed.

Mining, should not be risk free. Mining in empire should not be risk free.

But let's look at this scenario:

A miner gets ganked in a hulk (or covetor). He's ganked by an alt corp or large corp. War is declared within seconds of the successful gank.

*poof*- alt corp gankers are offline for the duration.

Large corp gankers, run back to 0.0 or low sec.

Even kill rights do not mitigate. There is no consequence. Security status loss is a joke for someone willing to suicide (and it's most likely an alt).

Industry types can work around this. Fly only insured covetors, keep 500m or less in my freighter, and use intensive scouting. Ok we get it... no problem.

But when the inevitable happens... we can't fight back. The targets are either NPC corps, stealthy alt corps, or full out alliance connected corporations. Even in corps of hundreds of people... we cannot retaliate. The perpetrators come to empire space specifically to hassle miners, then leave.

And WE want to retaliate! But keeping an alt corp logged off for a month is not retaliation. Declaring war against a 0.0 alliance is not retaliation- the alliance has a tactical advantage in their own space.... a 100 man empire corp is not going to successfully jump all the way into 0.0 and engage a sov holding alliance. Not happening.

While Eve isn't fair... this is one area that needs balance.

So here's what I do not propose:

1. Do not increase the tank on mining ships.

2. Do not speed up Concord.

3. Do not make industry easier.

Here's what I do propose:

1. Have real consequences for criminal acts which force the criminals to face real retaliation. People who play Eve whine all the time about how "Carebears don't want to fight". But they do want to fight! Please make it possible. Not just a little sec status loss and LOL's for the gankers. The current mechanics allow a run and hide scenario which is detrimental to the game.

Most of us into industry, in a serious sense, know how to fight, can fight, and are willing to do so. But we have no targets. We get hit... and buy another ship. We have a situation where an attack is made, and the attackers are shielded by location, or logoff.

It's a serious mechanics issue. And user accounts are being closed because of it- especially newer players. Those of us who have been around since before battleships, will probably deal with the situation. And it's to my advantage if CCP does nothing- I'll make more ISK.

But from a game mechanics standpoint, from the standpoint of new players, it's a real problem especially for growth of the game.

They should enforce the -10s can't enter 1.0 system. You shouldn't be able to board a ship you're not supposed to even enter. They should enforce punishment on the "throwaway" gank alt.

I doubt they will though, because the miners that quit because of being ganked aren't a large enough population to worry the money guys that drive what gets done.

I <3 you.

Will you let me bear you dozens of Warrior-Industrialist babies?

The amount of people not actually reading the first post is staggering.

Harry Forever is a player so bad that he puts WCS on bombers. And yet, he has killed many of our untanked industrials, including multiple DSTs. I'm sure you're capable of at least that.

That's funny.

This isn't aimed at Goons. It's aimed at game mechanics.

But of course- it MUST be about you? Right.

The point is that you can do that anywhere throughout 0.0. What game mechanics do you think prevent you?

So what you're saying is that you can't think of a response against me.

Yes, Ganking without consequence is a bad game mechanic...

Even kill rights do not mitigate. There is no consequence.

But when the inevitable happens... we can't fight back.

90% chance it's throwaway alt ... that char will be biomass in a few days

Declaring war against a 0.0 alliance is not retaliation- the alliance has a tactical advantage in their own space....

I post on my main, gank on my main, & you cry on your alt, and claim something is wrong.

R
O
F
L

Welcome to New Eden. HTFU

I post on my main, gank on my main, & you cry on your alt, and claim something is wrong.

R
O
F
L

Welcome to New Eden. HTFU

The irony of this thread is that suicide ganking has the most punishments and conciquences in EVE.

Its not the gankers fault that the victim choses not to use any of the options available to them.

They should enforce the -10s can't enter 1.0 system. You shouldn't be able to board a ship you're not supposed to even enter. They should enforce punishment on the "throwaway" gank alt.

-10 would ensure you have no business inside 1.0, -9 to 0.9 and so on

Basing this idea on what you've said, why bar a -10 player from 1.0 space at -10 when he's already barred at -9.0? Do you even know how security status works?

I think you missed his point.

"Anonymity" is the key word in EVE.

No matter what you do (minus stupid), the Anonymity Cloak will keep you safe and warm, free from the consequences of your actions. The whole game is built on the definition of what is sheltered by the Anonymity Cloak and what isn't.

I cringe at the thought of the tidal wave of tears that could cause if CCP provided a mean to track agressors' accounts. You got a kill right, then you can tell who is his character with the most SP or most ISK or the oldest one, or the three.

And then go pay that char a visit.

An ARMED visit, so he thinks it twice before messing with YOUR main again.

I would pay a PLEX for the privilege...

How so?

If low security status prevents people from jumping to a system, then no, I have not been informed of that. I know you get empire navies pursuing you, but that's kind of like someone slapping you with a fish.

Solution to your problem. An unlawful kill in highsec gives you the immediate option to delcare war. While this war is active noone may leave either corp, and the aggressor cannot call in backup. Its not perfect but its the best i can come up with.

the aggressor cannot call in backup. Its not perfect but its the best i can come up with.

Yeah if we weren't anonymous, sociopathic carebears might think twice about
insulting people or throwing death threats around.

That would not happen because sociopathic "tear collectors" would have to think twice about causing RL suffer to a fellow player through their actions ingame.

maybe you shouldn't play a game if losing causes you real life suffering

That would not happen because sociopathic "tear collectors" would have to think twice about causing RL suffer to a fellow player through their actions ingame.

Maybe you shouldn't play a game if you're afraid of sociopathic carebears.

Have real consequences for criminal acts which force the criminals to face real retaliation.

Please make it possible. Not just a little sec status loss and LOL's for the gankers. The current mechanics allow a run and hide scenario which is detrimental to the game.

It's a serious mechanics issue. And user accounts are being closed because of it- especially newer players.

How would game mechanics be able to enforce this? Nerf friend making? If this is the best idea you can come up with then I really don't want to see your other ideas.

How does that work?

What if suicide gankers had a tracker placed on them (some concord magic) along with the kill rights (maybe account wide). That way instead of the consequences being faction police or the security status hit, players can get their revenge by fighting back.

Make it so it only works in high-sec because of concord magic.

The problem from the OP is that Miners cant fight back one of the reasons being that people leave corp after a war dec . While this doesnt solve a couple of the other issues it still will at least solve one.

Stuff...

Yup, I'm posting anonymously. Make of that what you will.

I own multiple characters, and I'm a fairly rich industrialist in the game. I've headed an alliance, held sov, know how to fight, and date back to 2004.

The problem from the OP is that Miners cant fight back one of the reasons being that people leave corp after a war dec . While this doesnt solve a couple of the other issues it still will at least solve one.

Read the first post and you will realise you are a dumbass.

Read the first post and you will realise you are a dumbass.

Its a highsec war. In a Highsec war you can call in other corps to be including and allow combat between those extra corps. With my idea that would not be allowed so the gankers cant just call in an overwhelming force.

If that is the best you can comprehend something i really dont want to know how you function.

One of the problems these players have is that GÇö for any number of reasons GÇö they incorrectly think that they have no way of returning the favour. They overlook how the new killright system and the security status system both allow them to kill their attackers freely. They refer to NPC corps and alt corps as making revenge pointless, when every killboard out there seems to suggest that these are not recycled alts, and they most certainly aren't in NPC corps. Hell, the biggest ganking groups openly advertise them as such and should be on every miner's red list, and not even that simple tool is being used. In short, these self-imposed victims come up with all kinds of excuses for why they should not have to take responsibility for their own safety.

Problem is:

- You cannot be "industrialist only" and fight back.

- Security status IS a joke

- The main reason for the post is not to ask for safer conditions to industrialists, but to ask for equally unsafe and responsible conditions for gankers and general fighting pilots.

- EVE market is not player driven.

- EVE market is not player driven.

I don't want to return the favor to the agressing char that exists for the sole purpose of pvp. How is hunting a char that exists for the purpose of pvp even remotely comparable to "returning the favor" on an even scale?

I want to strike the source of his income, destroy his supplies, blap his missioning/mining ship or send a merc corp after his alts research POS. I don't want to give him a hunt on an alt he enjoys to pvp with, I want to ruin his day when he really does not want me to... The killright and security status system do jack squat to allow this for me.

however I do believe it is a serious problem especially for new players.

He blew you up. You blew him up. That's about as even as it gets.

No, but wardecs do, so the tools are once again already at your disposal. There's a distinction between just getting even and going all blood-feud:y vendetta on someone.

The problem for new players is more one of being suckered into horrible newbie collection corps with incompetent leadership who teach them all the wrong thingsGǪ

And that's exactly the problem. He gets to choose where he attacks me AND where I can hurt him.

Again, a wardec is pointless if I can't wardec his "infrastructure", industrialists, haulers, whatever.

And what's wrong with a bit of bloodfeud? Sounds very sandboxy to me

In most online games I've played "crappy newbie corps" help with new player retention, if not by teaching players something valueable at least by providing a nice place to hang out. In EvE they paint a bullseye on the new player and, if anything, hurt player retention.

That would not happen because sociopathic "tear collectors" would have to think twice about causing RL suffer to a fellow player through their actions ingame.

Yup, I'm posting anonymously. Make of that what you will.

NPC corps sell ships for isk? Perhaps you'd like to give examples.

I said sell, give and/or reward lots of things. But I didnt say "for ISK". But yeah, there are things they sell for LP and ISK, once bought can be traded or used to build or reprocess tradeable goods, injecting in the market something that isnt player made, implementing an indirect price control over everything that can be made from and with what is made avaliable by them.

This issue about market control and non player driven economy is already into account many other topics like:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=242528

Which is one of the issues contributing to the discrepancy of what CCP texts about EVE say and what it is done.

And it is related to the topic because this fact submits the industrialists to a place where, as stated, you cannot be "industrialist only" where as you can be a ganker only and have nothing to lose by ganking in hisec the said industrialists.

And if you actually knew any of these people
you'd realize that these guys actually are normal.

They don't mistake a game for reality and they don't wish you or your family death
because they've lost stupid space pixels.

Unlike carebears who only care about themselves and their bloated egos,
most people who like to blow things up and interact with others
understand that it's a game !

Look up what a "sociopath" is, before you even start talking about it.



And finally i get it. It's almost september and the idiots are back from their holidays ...

Except that the LP stores don't actually do that, they let you get a faction ship in exchange for lp/isk/chips and the T1 equivalent. You can buy BPCs of faction ships, but that's not really different from the NPC sell orders of BPOs. You can't be a "pure ganker" in the way that you describe because you either need ships or minerals in order to have ganking ships. You can however be a "pure industrialist" if you factor ganks and such into your cost of doing business or you just hire mercenaries.

Categorical thinking is a nice weapon of mass destruction of information.

Two things: LP still a kind of currency and a measure of value. And you can blind youself as much as you want, people take that into account in estabilishing prices. I do that, everyone does that to earn ISK. There is a point where you cant rise prices of similar itens or products they reprocess into, because it gets easier to get the LP to buy them from NPCs.

Second, and more obscured it seems, you CAN sell or buy for any price you want, but this is not drive the market. If you have NPCs selling something that isnt player made, that can in turn be used to create trade itens, sold or reprocessed, and it has a fixed value and infinite supply, you are taking away the ability of players to define its supply and price as a whole in the player base. If you can still acquire those itens without any player making them or selling them in the first place, you have non player controlled market.

And you can have alts to get LP for you and run missions to get up to cruisers in missions. That still NPCs giving things that can be sold, reprocessed or used in otherwise non player driven supply satisfying a demand, which in turn makes a factor of indirect control of the market. Still players cant decide what is sold and for how much 100% of the times, rendering the market not 100% player driven.

Here's the ultimate best defense against ganking.


Go gank for a couple weeks. Learn the mechanics of operating in highsec as an outlaw.

Once you've learned the mechanics, go back to mining, and realise how easy it is to dodge a gank.



Here's a freebie for you. Ganking with an outlaw character requires the use of a scout. The scout's job is to cuddle up next to your barge, and provide a warp-in. When you see someone getting too close, leave. This however, requires you be ATK and paying attention.

Good posts by Tydeth Giltae and Neo Hal.

When I first looked at the OP's post I was trying to work out what he was trying to get at, Tydeth Giltae set him on the right direction in terms of what is in game, but then Neo Hal started talking about what I thought what the OP was really saying, the issue is meta gaming, people do not bother doing things because of the meta gaming risk and the game is less because of it, lets take the OP's point on going after a 0.0 alliance, you would gather people who had a reason to go after them and what would happen is that someone in that alliance will activate an account using alliance plex infiltrate and destroy from within, I really want to make the point clear, the game is less for the ease in which they can do it and the lack of tools to try to prevent it.

As for tears, there are a lot of people playing this game who are competent but have failed in RL, so they pour a lot of effort in the game to be good at something, to make them feel better, the ones who go on about harvesting tears on every post, go after that type of player as they know it has a RL impact, personally I find their denials rather tiring.

Lets take Gankers who go after mining barges, to me that is almost PvE, all they are doing is trying to kill something before the NPC's can intervene, the only PvP is whether the miner has fitted a tank, has good skills to be able to run the tank.

Two things: LP still a kind of currency and a measure of value. And you can blind youself as much as you want, people take that into account in estabilishing prices. I do that, everyone does that to earn ISK. There is a point where you cant rise prices of similar itens or products they reprocess into, because it gets easier to get the LP to buy them from NPCs.

Second, and more obscured it seems, you CAN sell or buy for any price you want, but this is not drive the market. If you have NPCs selling something that isnt player made, that can in turn be used to create trade itens, sold or reprocessed, and it has a fixed value and infinite supply, you are taking away the ability of players to define its supply and price as a whole in the player base. If you can still acquire those itens without any player making them or selling them in the first place, you have non player controlled market.

The Loud, The Proud, The Forum Warriors!

Here's the ultimate best defense against ganking.


Go gank for a couple weeks. Learn the mechanics of operating in highsec as an outlaw.

Once you've learned the mechanics, go back to mining, and realise how easy it is to dodge a gank.



Here's a freebie for you. Ganking with an outlaw character requires the use of a scout. The scout's job is to cuddle up next to your barge, and provide a warp-in. When you see someone getting too close, leave. This however, requires you be ATK and paying attention.

If it was only a game, tears would not matter. They matter precisely because it's not a just a game.

..then what else it it in your oppinion ?


Tears dont matter .. but they taste good. It's always fun to hear grownups act like 6 again over spaceship pixels. It's just priceless to watch some dude go beserk over ultimately, his* own stupidity.

* or her.

..then what else it it in your oppinion ?


Tears dont matter .. but they taste good. It's always fun to hear grownups act like 6 again over spaceship pixels. It's just priceless to watch some dude go beserk over ultimately, his* own stupidity.

* or her.

Please tell me how forcing industrialists to gtfo of h-sec and work together with pew-pew buddies in order to provide their content is bad for EVE ?

Last I checked we get Concorded and I am a free target for everyone everywhere.

Ahh yes, Concord. The epitome of fat, lazy, doughnut eating cops in the whole unimultisystemverse!

My cat is more useful, and she gets her tail caught in the jump gates!

How so?

Im saying miners have plenty of chance to fight back. Or industrialists. I consider them 2 groups, and the "industrialists" who mine for themselves to be quite fail.

The last one cried in eve mail, PM'ed me, had his boy pm me, hired mercs (to counter my war dec), had the mercs PM me, threatened to make this character unplayable if I didn't pay extortion, and then ran for 7 days when I fought back. I heard the point he was trying to make and found it to be laughable.

So you would be fine with Concord being removed?

As for tears, there are a lot of people playing this game who are competent but have failed in RL, so they pour a lot of effort in the game to be good at something, to make them feel better, the ones who go on about harvesting tears on every post, go after that type of player as they know it has a RL impact, personally I find their denials rather tiring.

Are you serious? I drive a 2013 Chevy Camaro, have a job that pays me 100k a year, plus 401k, retirement, medical, dental. I am happily married and in good health at the ripe old age of 25.

Again please tell me how I fail at life when I'm not the one shooting rocks all day and failing how to learn game mechanics.

Eh.....this is kinda' awkward.

Are you serious? I drive a 2013 Chevy Camaro, have a job that pays me 100k a year, plus 401k, retirement, medical, dental. I am happily married and in good health at the ripe old age of 25.

I also never mission and use plex to fund my criminal activity. I own over 20 billion in hulls alone all for the sole purpose of destruction. Again please tell me how I fail at life when I'm not the one shooting rocks all day and failing how to learn game mechanics.

Dont interject the rl card unless you are prepared to look like an ass. Point being is I'm certain there are many successful carebears irl just as much as any other play style in this game. So please don't even try to use that as an excuse...

i had my three supermodel mensa-member girlfriends look his post over and they agree it's hard to tell whether he's saying 'tear harvesters' or 'tear faucets' are the mentioned failures. dude uses too many bloody commas. he's wrong, in any case.

Can I have a pic of said girlfriends? Come on man don't hold out on us. Share the love! Personally I prefer voluptuous redheads who are older....

You aren't going to be happy with women from Mensa... just don't go there.

Are you serious? I drive a 2013 Chevy Camaro, have a job that pays me 100k a year, plus 401k, retirement, medical, dental. I am happily married and in good health at the ripe old age of 25.

I also never mission and use plex to fund my criminal activity. I own over 20 billion in hulls alone all for the sole purpose of destruction. Again please tell me how I fail at life when I'm not the one shooting rocks all day and failing how to learn game mechanics.

Dont interject the rl card unless you are prepared to look like an ass. Point being is I'm certain there are many successful carebears irl just as much as any other play style in this game. So please don't even try to use that as an excuse...

Yup, I'm posting anonymously. Make of that what you will.

I own multiple characters, and I'm a fairly rich industrialist in the game. I've headed an alliance, held sov, know how to fight, and date back to 2004.

Recently returned to the game to find a more or less all out war on industrialists. I'm going to state my case, understanding I will be flamed.

Mining, should not be risk free. Mining in empire should not be risk free.

But let's look at this scenario:

A miner gets ganked in a hulk (or covetor). He's ganked by an alt corp or large corp. War is declared within seconds of the successful gank.

*poof*- alt corp gankers are offline for the duration.

Large corp gankers, run back to 0.0 or low sec.

Even kill rights do not mitigate. There is no consequence. Security status loss is a joke for someone willing to suicide (and it's most likely an alt).

Industry types can work around this. Fly only insured covetors, keep 500m or less in my freighter, and use intensive scouting. Ok we get it... no problem.

But when the inevitable happens... we can't fight back. The targets are either NPC corps, stealthy alt corps, or full out alliance connected corporations. Even in corps of hundreds of people... we cannot retaliate. The perpetrators come to empire space specifically to hassle miners, then leave.

And WE want to retaliate! But keeping an alt corp logged off for a month is not retaliation. Declaring war against a 0.0 alliance is not retaliation- the alliance has a tactical advantage in their own space.... a 100 man empire corp is not going to successfully jump all the way into 0.0 and engage a sov holding alliance. Not happening.

While Eve isn't fair... this is one area that needs balance.

So here's what I do not propose:

1. Do not increase the tank on mining ships.

2. Do not speed up Concord.

3. Do not make industry easier.

Here's what I do propose:

1. Have real consequences for criminal acts which force the criminals to face real retaliation. People who play Eve whine all the time about how "Carebears don't want to fight". But they do want to fight! Please make it possible. Not just a little sec status loss and LOL's for the gankers. The current mechanics allow a run and hide scenario which is detrimental to the game.

Most of us into industry, in a serious sense, know how to fight, can fight, and are willing to do so. But we have no targets. We get hit... and buy another ship. We have a situation where an attack is made, and the attackers are shielded by location, or logoff.

It's a serious mechanics issue. And user accounts are being closed because of it- especially newer players. Those of us who have been around since before battleships, will probably deal with the situation. And it's to my advantage if CCP does nothing- I'll make more ISK.

But from a game mechanics standpoint, from the standpoint of new players, it's a real problem especially for growth of the game.

What an absolutely useless reply.... it's like "goon talking points". Spewed out with the impunity of the group thinking goon. Do you guys have individual opinions? Or just get the same talking points weekly?

Move to 0.0? Did you read my post? Idiot.

Don't worry, in a few more months, you won't be worrying about industry in high sec.

The null sec cartels want more serfs to feed their needs, and CCP is obliging that by wrecking high sec industry.
Mineral prices are slowly crashing, and null sec gets another massive buff in mineral content on Tuesday (check the patch notes), so mining will be an utter waste of time in high sec.
And as for T2 industry in high sec, what do you think that "contentious item" is that Ripard Teg refers to when writing about the CSM summit this week?

I was active in another thread about nerfing HS and it is quite evident that the agenda is to nerf HS, I am not against buffing 0.0 because the stations are not great and the lack of Mexallon is a issue in certain areas of the game (drone areas) so I am not against the mineral content being improved, but there is an aim by certain groups to force people into 0.0 by making some game play impossible in HS and if that is T2 manufacturing then I have to say that CCP are about to makle a serious mistake, I really hope that it is not the case. I used to think that CCP knew that nerfing HS was a bad idea but they have been in the same room with multiple 0.0 movers and shakers that their pressure looks to be having the affect and CCP are losing sight of the simple fact that many players do not want to go to 0.0. And I say that as someone who has spent more time in 0.0 than HS.

EDIT: And your idea of closing Station access in HS is a very good one, actions should have consequences...

But when the inevitable happens... we can't fight back. The targets are either NPC corps, stealthy alt corps, or full out alliance connected corporations. Even in corps of hundreds of people... we cannot retaliate. The perpetrators come to empire space specifically to hassle miners, then leave

It's a serious mechanics issue. And user accounts are being closed because of it

And? Assuming this is true (massive assumption) it takes anywhere upto 20 people to gank a freighter or full-tank Orca, so if you're saying one person is more likely to quit so that 20 people can enjoy themselves, this is a no-brainer for supporting more, easier ganking.

Are you serious? I drive a 2013 Chevy Camaro, have a job that pays me 100k a year, plus 401k, retirement, medical, dental. I am happily married and in good health at the ripe old age of 25.

I also never mission and use plex to fund my criminal activity. I own over 20 billion in hulls alone all for the sole purpose of destruction.

omg, can I have a locket of your hair?

I was active in another thread about nerfing HS and it is quite evident that the agenda is to nerf HS, I am not against buffing 0.0 because the stations are not great and the lack of Mexallon is a issue in certain areas of the game (drone areas) so I am not against the mineral content being improved, but there is an aim by certain groups to force people into 0.0 by making some game play impossible in HS and if that is T2 manufacturing then I have to say that CCP are about to makle a serious mistake, I really hope that it is not the case. I used to think that CCP knew that nerfing HS was a bad idea but they have been in the same room with multiple 0.0 movers and shakers that their pressure looks to be having the affect and CCP are losing sight of the simple fact that many players do not want to go to 0.0. And I say that as someone who has spent more time in 0.0 than HS.

EDIT: And your idea of closing Station access in HS is a very good one, actions should have consequences...

I used to think that CCP knew that nerfing HS was a bad idea but they have been in the same room with multiple 0.0 movers and shakers that their pressure looks to be having the affect and CCP are losing sight of the simple fact that many players do not want to go to 0.0.

Players don't have to go to nullsec. But the players that do go to null and spend their ISK to carve out a piece of it, and have to defend it, and have to deal with the idiotic politics involved should have an advantage. The stations that they create and defend should be THE best place for industry. Then POSes. And then at the very bottom, the empire NPC maintained stations. Simply put, player created content should be the best. Not NPC space. HS should indeed be nerfed into the ground. You don't have to leave HS, but you just gotta accept that the rewards are gonna be crap. Which is the price paid for relative safety. At least that's how it would all work in my theoretical view of the game.

And I say that as somebody who has spent the last few years in hi-sec. It shouldn't be easy-mode paradise, it should be a low-wage ghetto.

Players don't have to go to nullsec. But the players that do go to null and spend their ISK to carve out a piece of it, and have to defend it, and have to deal with the idiotic politics involved should have an advantage. The stations that they create and defend should be THE best place for industry. Then POSes. And then at the very bottom, the empire NPC maintained stations. Simply put, player created content should be the best. Not NPC space. HS should indeed be nerfed into the ground. You don't have to leave HS, but you just gotta accept that the rewards are gonna be crap. Which is the price paid for relative safety. At least that's how it would all work in my theoretical view of the game.

And I say that as somebody who has spent the last few years in hi-sec. It shouldn't be easy-mode paradise, it should be a low-wage ghetto.

Players don't have to go to nullsec. But the players that do go to null and spend their ISK to carve out a piece of it, and have to defend it, and have to deal with the idiotic politics involved should have an advantage. The stations that they create and defend should be THE best place for industry. Then POSes. And then at the very bottom, the empire NPC maintained stations. Simply put, player created content should be the best. Not NPC space. HS should indeed be nerfed into the ground. You don't have to leave HS, but you just gotta accept that the rewards are gonna be crap. Which is the price paid for relative safety. At least that's how it would all work in my theoretical view of the game.

And I say that as somebody who has spent the last few years in hi-sec. It shouldn't be easy-mode paradise, it should be a low-wage ghetto.

I agree, just curious on where NPC 0.0 would fall.

Trash space or streets lined with ISK space?

No, because the idiotic politics = blue donut and therefore no risk.
Ask pros like -A-, TEST and RDN. about how riskless their blue donut made them

Thank you for your wonderful insight, I did read the first post.

The fact of the matter is that most miners won't fight back. I've been in mining corps, I still mine, I also gank other miners on occasion. 90% of them will sit there and whine in local about how CCP should protect them from the bad people, that they're defenceless and that others shouldn't be able to interfere with them.

Please insult me further, it makes me all warm and gooey inside.

Solution: don't be GÇ£industrialist onlyGÇ¥. If you absolutely have to, at least acknowledge the fact that there are plenty of ways to get back, including player-provided services for precisely that purpose. There is no way to cheat the mechanics (or, if there are, it's called an GÇ£exploitGÇ¥ and gets you banned). Either way, any claim that it's somehow impossible (or even difficult) to get back is disingenuous and uninformed.

No. Security status is a tool. It provides mechanism for all players GÇö new and old GÇö to get back at attackers and/or to slow said attackers down.

So it's a request to make life safer for the gankers, then? After all, they can be attacked anywhere at any time without any mechanical penalties and repercussions on the attacker, whereas attacking the industrialists imposes all kinds of punishments.

OhGǪ Ok. Sorry. Giving up now.
I mistook this for a serious post at first, but yeah, you got me. 10/10.

Summary:

"I mine in Hi-sec and get ganked. I cannot respond IN TIME to successfully retaliate."

The answer and solution are simple and straightforward and require no changes to game mechanics:

Answer to why you cannot retaliate: You are by yourself.
Answer to be able to retaliate: Don't be by yourself.

You could easily have some mates near enough to respond to your distress. If you don't, then, stfu seriously; nowhere is safe in EVE. You undock, you can get blowed up. Get some friends to watch your back, or pay someone to. Seriously, this is the biggest whiney thread I have ever read and the OP deserves to be ganked forever. And seriously, you probably mine for days and days without threat, and then what, once a month you get ganked? I would call that pretty safe and easy mining. STFU OP.

So, I mine in high sec. It is the ONLY place in EvE online a new player (which I am) can learn how to play the game.

when is the last time you've seen a Venture run by a week-old character even know how to put up an effective fight? These are the players who are being persuaded to dump EvE by the gankers.

But when the inevitable happens... we can't fight back. The targets are either NPC corps, stealthy alt corps, or full out alliance connected corporations. Even in corps of hundreds of people... we cannot retaliate. The perpetrators come to empire space specifically to hassle miners, then leave

There are some people (myself included) who like to solo. EvE is definately NOT a game for the solo player.

Yes, there are consequences to soloing, but it should not be impossible and EvE is damn near impossible to solo.

Sorry, but I prefer to NOT base the survival of my character on whether another player thinks it's worth covering my character.

So, I mine in high sec. It is the ONLY place in EvE online a new player (which I am) can learn how to play the game. These gankers who prey on new players (and very interestingly avoid new players flying combat vessels... the cowards) who convince those new players the game is not worth their hard-earned money.

Sorry, but you do NOT convince people to play a game by allowing those who are experianced in the game to gank those trying to learn how to play the game. You attract new players by enabling them to learn the game BEFORE they face those experianced players.

Low-sec and null-sec players who prey on new players because the new players have not yet learned how to defend themselves are forcing those players to decide NOT to continue.

i don't get angry at the gankers, i just convince myself into the delusion that i'm better than them in some undefined way

Oh it's not undefined at all. I'm better than them for the same reason that I'm better than criminals in RL.

Oh it's not undefined at all. I'm better than them for the same reason that I'm better than criminals in RL.

You aren't allowed to gank in rookie systems. And how many people are going to be convinced to keep playing if their only gameplay experience is staring at rocks all day?

So, I mine in high sec. It is the ONLY place in EvE online a new player (which I am) can learn how to play the game. These gankers who prey on new players (and very interestingly avoid new players flying combat vessels... the cowards) who convince those new players the game is not worth their hard-earned money.

You're not learning anything about how to play EVE by mining in high sec. I'm quite certain you mastered the activity of mining by the time you were done with the requisite tutorial mission, and therefore need no more study in the matter.

And you'd be quite wrong. There is actually quite a bit more to mining, at least doing it profitably and well. I'm not even a miner and I know that. And I'll agree it's quite possibly the single most boring activity in the entire game. But unfortunately it is necessary. Somebody has gotta pull the ore, so the ships can be built, and then they can be blown up. Just the way the game works.

You seem to be missing the point the OP was making.

It is simple. NOOBs still learning the game and not yet knowledgable as to their options are being jumped and ganked.

Actually, I'm not wrong at all. Mining consists of exactly nothing more than targeting an asteroid and activating your lasers. The game does the rest. Figuring out the market, which ore is profitable and which is not, is an entirely different activity that transcends mining, and can be applied to a vast multitude of economic activity in EVE.

PVP consists of nothing more than targeting a hostile and pressing F1.
What's to learn?

If you are going to dismiss it all as 'not part of mining' the same is true of PVP so he also already knows how to PVP.
I.E. Don't dismiss things you don't do as insignificant or worthless. The same works both ways.

If that's all PvP is to you, you're doing it wrong or in a blob. 90% of work in PvP is done before you hit F1, picking your targets, knowing the capabilities of your ship and fit, knowing the potential capabilities and fits of your opponents ships are all very important parts of PvP.

If that's all PvP is to you, you're doing it wrong or in a blob. 90% of work in PvP is done before you hit F1, picking your targets, knowing the capabilities of your ship and fit, knowing the potential capabilities and fits of your opponents ships are all very important parts of PvP.

If that's all PvP is to you, you're doing it wrong or in a blob. 90% of work in PvP is done before you hit F1, picking your targets, knowing the capabilities of your ship and fit, knowing the potential capabilities and fits of your opponents ships are all very important parts of PvP.

Last I checked we get Concorded and I am a free target for everyone everywhere.

Confirmed, people who blow up spaceships in a blowing up spaceships game are exactly like criminals RL.

BRB guys gotta go hold up a bank so I can buy PLEX.

You haven't even met all the criminals, how can you know them?

It sounds like you're judging a person based on possibly one act they commited in their lives! This doesn't reflect well on you.

It's a simple exchange really - you get blown up, concord blows me up. If its worth it then its just business, maybe you should mine in a rokh?

Harry Forever is a player so bad that he puts WCS on bombers. And yet, he has killed many of our untanked industrials, including multiple DSTs. I'm sure you're capable of at least that.

It's a simple exchange really - you get blown up, concord blows me up. If its worth it then its just business, maybe you should mine in a rokh?

Navy Domi's fare no better

edit oh ROFL @ the Rokh dying to an Itty 5

[quote=Forum Damsel]You seem to be missing the point the OP was making.

If your mining barge doesn't have any tank whatsoever, then you're an extremely juicy target for suicide gankers.

75% of all highsec miners think that they're immortal and fit their mining barges for optimal yield, not optimal tank

frankly i can not remember the last time someone has actualy come to fight us after we were ganked. I would love to fight you guys, you just have to realize we are not going to undock into a fleet that will 100% blob the hell out of us (not that i have ever seen a non pvp entity do this to us)

It's not like the gankers are gonna be cruising around in hi-sec in freighters or faction BSs. In hi-sec they are gonna be in Catalysts and Thrashers (and who cares if one of those die).

Well in their defense it's not really possible to fight after ganks. Gankers pick up a criminal flag, so they can't undock in a ship without it getting Concorded. So there is no way for the miner and his corp to immediately respond. Once the timer ends, they could conceivably trigger the kill right and attack. But in my experience, I haven't seen many gankers stick around in system after a gank. Gankers hit, the scout loots, gankers vanish, and all that is left is the sobbing tears of the miner (once they get back to keyboard). Seriously, what are the victims gonna do to fight? Wardec the gankers? Realistically that's not gonna happen

I am new to the game and I hate PvP... especially ganking.

[Stuff]

With such a system in place, I figure the PvP action will gravitate to where it belongs... away from new players in High Sec.