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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 17 post(s) |
Jon Matick
Semper Ubi Sub Ubi
21
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Posted - 2013.09.13 06:14:00 -
[1171] - Quote
I hereby give everyone in eve the right to represent me in anyway they see fit. My Blog:-á http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/ |
Dirk Action
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
131
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 06:16:00 -
[1172] - Quote
Sid Hudgens wrote:[
Actually, no.
Try to keep up.
He is not saying that you can't use an alt to scam someone. He is not saying that you can't use an alt to represent yourself. He is saying that if you choose to use an alt to IMPERSONATE yourself in a SCAM then he has to handle that the same way as he handles someone else IMPERSONATING you in a scam.
Why? Because if he treats those two cases differently he is essentially giving out information on player accounts ... specifically by confirming that one character is an alt of another.
GMs need to stay out of legal scams altogether. "Legal scams" meaning ones done entirely through social manipulation, not through illegal, exploitative means such as account hacking.
This brand new policy is completely unprecedented and wrong. Period. |
Crimson Gauntlet
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
10
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 06:18:00 -
[1173] - Quote
Jon Matick wrote:For the love of god, this is EVE. EVE without being able to scam HOWEVER you want is a game I do not want to play. As such, I hereby give everyone in EVE the right to represent me, or any of my 21 characters, in any way they see fit.
In which case, I'd like your stuff now. |
Dirk Action
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
131
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Posted - 2013.09.13 06:18:00 -
[1174] - Quote
If I use my out-of-alliance alt in order to perform a rental scam, claiming I am Dirk Action and I can sell space in the Drone Regions, and if my mark is too goddamn stupid to actually mail my main (on which I would ABSOLUTELY NOT want to scam on or confirm that it's my alt as it would hurt our business and result in me being kicked from the alliance), and I get their money, then that's too bad for them and the GMs should buzz off. |
Mildew Wolf
116
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 06:20:00 -
[1175] - Quote
Sid Hudgens wrote:Dirk Action wrote:
god damn
like I can't actually believe that you're saying this.
You are saying, with a straight face, that you using an alt in order to scam someone, *or otherwise represent YOURSELF* on that alt character, is against the rules.
I am like... completely flabbergasted. And angry.
You cite earlier in the thread - and I can't remember where because this entire fu-üking thread is a trainwreck of your team putting their feet in their mouth - that each character is its own representation.
This is r-¦tarded, and let me tell you why. The character doesn't matter in this game, especially with the Character Bazaar being a thing. What matters is the person behind the keyboard. Who are you to say what someone wants to do from within the confines of the game? Why shouldn't someone like Abdiel, or The Mittani, or Chribba himself, be able to decide, "hey this guy has a stupid amount of money, I feel like liberating it from him from this character I am going to claim is my main's alt (which it really is!) because... that's EVE!"
God just get out forever. You have no idea what this game is about, and how you EVER managed to become a GM - and SENIOR GM at that - is a mystery to any sane person; something you clearly aren't.
Actually, no. Try to keep up. He is not saying that you can't use an alt to scam someone. He is not saying that you can't use an alt to represent yourself. He is saying that if you choose to use an alt to IMPERSONATE yourself in a SCAM then he has to handle that the same way as he handles someone else IMPERSONATING you in a scam. Why? Because if he treats those two cases differently he is essentially giving out information on player accounts ... specifically by confirming that one character is an alt of another.
Afaik to "impersonate yourself" is an oxymoron
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Dirk Action
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
131
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 06:20:00 -
[1176] - Quote
The punishment of finding a smart mark is that the scam falls through. *The punishment should not be a ban.*
Soundwave help us that this is the GM team we're stuck with. |
Sid Hudgens
Totally not an NPC Corp
146
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 06:20:00 -
[1177] - Quote
GMs need to stay out of legal scams altogether. "Legal scams" meaning ones done entirely through social manipulation, not through illegal, exploitative means such as account hacking.
This brand new policy is completely unprecedented and wrong. Period.[/quote]
Actually ... impersonating other players has been shown to be neither new policy nor unprecedented. Impersonating other players was already against the rules before the TOS update.
If it is wrong or not is another question. That is certainly a topic for debate if you ask me. But it is an entirely separate issue from all of the "new TOS means scammers get banned" hysteria that is going on here. "....as if 10,058 Goon voices cried out and were suddenly silenced." |
Sid Hudgens
Totally not an NPC Corp
146
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 06:22:00 -
[1178] - Quote
Mildew Wolf wrote:
Afaik to "impersonate yourself" is an oxymoron
Fair enough. I wasn't clear there. Someone using one of their characters to impersonate another of their characters. My point remains the same. "....as if 10,058 Goon voices cried out and were suddenly silenced." |
Sid Hudgens
Totally not an NPC Corp
146
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 06:25:00 -
[1179] - Quote
Dirk Action wrote:The punishment of finding a smart mark is that the scam falls through. *The punishment should not be a ban.*
Soundwave help us that this is the GM team we're stuck with.
Nobody has said anything about any of this being grounds for an insta-ban. I don't know why people think they're going to get banned out of the blue for scamming. Chill. "....as if 10,058 Goon voices cried out and were suddenly silenced." |
Petrus Justinianus
GrimRaven Empire KRYSIS.
13
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 06:29:00 -
[1180] - Quote
Sid Hudgens wrote:I will admit I was a little confused by the alt thing at first, but after the latest explanation it seems pretty clear to me why this is necessary. Most of you are so wrapped around the axle at this point you can't see it ... or you're just ******* dense, I'm not sure which.
The reason the case where someone is lying about being an alt and someone is telling the truth about being an alt is treated the same way is to keep people from using the petitioning system as an intel tool to find out who people's alts are. The GMs, in this case have to treat each CHARACTER as a separate entity ... in order to not reveal that they are linked to the same PLAYER. This actually helps you scammers keep the identity of your alts secret.
Those of you who are making up stupid examples of getting banned for responding in the wrong alt's chat window and other such nonsense seem to think that there is a massive room of people watching all player communication and looking for someone to say they're an alt so they can be ban-hammered. That is obviously not how things work. Someone has to petition you first, and then a GM has to review the petition and determine that you were trying to impersonate someone with malicious intent (to scam them.) Any petitions that are that obviously stupid are going to be rejected as obviously stupid. (And hopefully a form letter indicating "Your petition has been rejected for being stupid." will be sent to the petitioner.)
So can some of you please try to get past the whole "alt" thing...?
Putting the alt thing aside you're all probably still upset about the fact that you can be petitioned for impersonating someone...
The additional explanation of how this is the same as previous policy mostly tracks for me as well. The previous policy was buried in the naming policy but has been moved to the TOS for clarity. Some of you are reading this as CCP making scams against the TOS. I don't see how you're getting there. This does make scams that are based on impersonating other players against the TOS ... as it was previously against the naming policy as the GM clarified. I don't see this as making scams against the TOS at all. It simply means you can't design your scams around impersonating another player. (So, don't be lazy. If you want to be a scammer or a spy, put some effort into it, ffs.)
If it is "wrong" or against EVE culture for impersonation-based scams to be against the rules is certainly something worthy of debate. Personally, I don't have a problem with it. People who put some more thought into their scams and other nefarious plots than "Hey, I'm Joe's alt" will still be scamming happily away for years to come. But hey, I get it ... effort, and all. Perhaps this is something that should be discussed without all of the rampant stupidity that has been in this thread.
There is one area that is still quite murky in my opinion and that is the impersonation or representation of "groups." In the context of EVE, "groups" is going to be hard to define. (BTW if you really think selling a raven as an RNI would be misrepresenting yourself as part of the group of "RNI owners" then you're the most pedantic tool I've seen in a while.) Obviously if groups not defined within the game mechanics are taken into consideration then the rule becomes almost meaningless right off the bat. Not being able to represent yourself as being part of a group that is defined by game mechanics ... just seems silly, really. This part is still a cause for concern for me unless someone can explain it further in a way that makes some sense.
stay in school kids.. |
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RubyPorto
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
4115
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 06:33:00 -
[1181] - Quote
Sid Hudgens wrote:He is saying that if you choose to use an alt to IMPERSONATE yourself in a SCAM then he has to handle that the same way as he handles someone else IMPERSONATING you in a scam.
So, any and all business conducted through alts is banned. Super.
There is no way to distinguish between a scam and a legitimate business deal in EVE, because all scams are legitimate business deals in EVE.
Quote:Why? Because if he treats those two cases differently he is essentially giving out information on player accounts ... specifically by confirming that one character is an alt of another.
That's an argument for not having the rule, not for enforcing it in a literally insane manner. "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
d-£-󦦦º-ó-ꦪ¦¦e¦¦-í-ë-í-󦦦+¦¦¦»-ö¦+b-¥¦º¦¦¦¦¦½¦¦-ö-ëa-Ŧ+-¥¦í¦+-à-à¦ñc¦ó-á¦í-ƒ¦«¦½¦Ö¦¦¦á-ò-çl-Ǧ¢-ü¦+-û¦ƒ¦¦-ô-ë-Ö-ô¦Ñ-ô¦¬¦½e¦+¦¿¦ù¦¦¦ÿ¦ù¦Ñ¦¼-ò-ꦽ¦¦¦+¦+-ö¦¦-à¦á¦ú¦ÿ |
Crimson Gauntlet
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
10
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 06:34:00 -
[1182] - Quote
Sid Hudgens wrote:Dirk Action wrote:The punishment of finding a smart mark is that the scam falls through. *The punishment should not be a ban.*
Soundwave help us that this is the GM team we're stuck with. Nobody from CCP has said anything about any of this being grounds for an insta-ban. I don't know why people think they're going to get banned out of the blue for scamming. Chill.
Probably because a bunch of guys from Pizza did in fact get banned for precisely that pretty much the same day that this "clarification" came out.
Either knock off the apologist nonsense, or at least stop talking out your ass.
In fact, I will clarify it for you. People are in a state of unrest because several well known, well liked FCs got lifetime bans after someone fell for a brutally obvious scam and pulled the hurt feelings alarm. And the GMs bought it, almost immediately before they made this change.
So people want to know. Especially since this game tends to generate hurt feelings at a pretty incredible pace, people want to know whether they stand to get smooshed with the banhammer just because some other butthurt moron pulls the hurt feelings alarm.
ESPECIALLY because all of this behavior was as good as sanctioned just a short time ago.
Get it yet? |
Petrus Justinianus
GrimRaven Empire KRYSIS.
13
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 06:36:00 -
[1183] - Quote
Sid Hudgens wrote:Dirk Action wrote:
god damn
like I can't actually believe that you're saying this.
You are saying, with a straight face, that you using an alt in order to scam someone, *or otherwise represent YOURSELF* on that alt character, is against the rules.
I am like... completely flabbergasted. And angry.
You cite earlier in the thread - and I can't remember where because this entire fu-üking thread is a trainwreck of your team putting their feet in their mouth - that each character is its own representation.
This is r-¦tarded, and let me tell you why. The character doesn't matter in this game, especially with the Character Bazaar being a thing. What matters is the person behind the keyboard. Who are you to say what someone wants to do from within the confines of the game? Why shouldn't someone like Abdiel, or The Mittani, or Chribba himself, be able to decide, "hey this guy has a stupid amount of money, I feel like liberating it from him from this character I am going to claim is my main's alt (which it really is!) because... that's EVE!"
God just get out forever. You have no idea what this game is about, and how you EVER managed to become a GM - and SENIOR GM at that - is a mystery to any sane person; something you clearly aren't.
Actually, no. Try to keep up. He is not saying that you can't use an alt to scam someone. He is not saying that you can't use an alt to represent yourself. He is saying that if you choose to use an alt to IMPERSONATE yourself in a SCAM then he has to handle that the same way as he handles someone else IMPERSONATING you in a scam. Why? Because if he treats those two cases differently he is essentially giving out information on player accounts ... specifically by confirming that one character is an alt of another.
never go full ******, never |
Mildew Wolf
116
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 06:38:00 -
[1184] - Quote
Sid Hudgens wrote:Mildew Wolf wrote:
Afaik to "impersonate yourself" is an oxymoron
Fair enough. I wasn't clear there. Someone using one of their characters to impersonate another of their characters. My point remains the same.
Claiming to be an alt of a char isn't the same as claiming to be (impersonating) a char
Such a claim clearly refers to the real life person who (ostensibly) controls both chars
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Sid Hudgens
Totally not an NPC Corp
146
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 06:40:00 -
[1185] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:
So, any and all business conducted through alts is banned. Super.
There is no way to distinguish between a scam and a legitimate business deal in EVE, because all scams are legitimate business deals in EVE.
How in god's name did you get to that conclusion from what I wrote? Seriously? You're trolling me now right? Please say that you are...
Quote:That's an argument for not having the rule, not for enforcing it in a literally insane manner.
It's not an insane manner. It's probably the only manner in which they can enforce it. If they enforce it any other way and someone like Chribba decides he wants to make an alt and run scams ... then I can get it confirmed, by a GM that the alt is his and ruin his main's reputation. In an EVE universe where impersonating other characters is not allowed, this manner of enforcement actually protects THE SCAMMER. "....as if 10,058 Goon voices cried out and were suddenly silenced." |
Sid Hudgens
Totally not an NPC Corp
146
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 06:43:00 -
[1186] - Quote
Crimson Gauntlet wrote:
Get it yet?
You are butthurt. I get it. "....as if 10,058 Goon voices cried out and were suddenly silenced." |
Ripply Kat
Temporal Paradox
2
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 06:44:00 -
[1187] - Quote
This change is painfully bad, its one thing to stop misleading character names which the early tos covered, but with the information that a non-missleading name provides is enough protection from claims that they are alts or have connections that are not backed up by there name or player info. This stance that players needed a way to petition back lost assets didn't come from the community. |
Crimson Gauntlet
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
10
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 06:44:00 -
[1188] - Quote
Sid Hudgens wrote:Crimson Gauntlet wrote:
Get it yet?
You are butthurt. I get it.
And now I get it. You aren't here to argue, you are here to derail the thread to further whatever carebear agenda you are trying to make sure sees it through.
Answer my point, or at least have the common decency to shut up. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Sweet Sensations Radical Industries
13786
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 06:46:00 -
[1189] - Quote
Sid Hudgens wrote:RubyPorto wrote:
So, any and all business conducted through alts is banned. Super.
There is no way to distinguish between a scam and a legitimate business deal in EVE, because all scams are legitimate business deals in EVE.
How in god's name did you get to that conclusion from what I wrote? Seriously? You're trolling me now right? Please say that you are... Quote:That's an argument for not having the rule, not for enforcing it in a literally insane manner. It's not an insane manner. It's probably the only manner in which they can enforce it. If they enforce it any other way and someone like Chribba decides he wants to make an alt and run scams ... then I can get it confirmed, by a GM that the alt is his and ruin his main's reputation. In an EVE universe where impersonating other characters is not allowed, this manner of enforcement actually protects THE SCAMMER. Except that a GM is unlikely to confirm the identity of a scammers main. Somewhere in this thread I'm fairly sure we were told, by a CCP representative, that they can't identify alts and mains because there is no ingame way to do so (actually there is, but a GM said that there isn't, so I'm actually lying here )
edit - the exact text
GM Karidor wrote:What needs to be kept in mind regarding impersonations is that all characters involved are seen as their own, independent entity, which effectively means it's quite possible that a situation may appear where a player impersonates his trustworthy main character using an alt character located on the same account. As there is no in-game way to verify whether or not certain characters are located on the same account (the API needs the key and external tools to be read properly, so that one doesn't count here), this case would be handled the very same way as the impersonator character being owned by another player. I am furnishing this post "as is" I do not provide any warranty whatsoever, whether express, implied, or statutory, including, but not limited to, any relevance or fitness for purpose or any warranty that the contents herein are error-free.
Article 8 is ToSh |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
4116
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 06:50:00 -
[1190] - Quote
Sid Hudgens wrote:How in god's name did you get to that conclusion from what I wrote? Seriously? You're trolling me now right? Please say that you are...
Then define a scam in EVE in a way that doesn't amount to "a business deal which one party regrets."
If you can't, if I do any business on an alt, and one of the people I do business with regrets the deal, they can petition me for scamming and impersonating my main, therefor I can't do any business on any alts.
And that's entirely aside from the fact that, regardless of what the GMs enforce, you shouldn't have to break the rules to engage in legitimate gameplay.
Quote:It's not an insane manner. It's probably the only manner in which they can enforce it. If they enforce it any other way and someone like Chribba decides he wants to make an alt and run scams ... then I can get it confirmed, by a GM that the alt is his and ruin his main's reputation. In an EVE universe where impersonating other characters is not allowed, this manner of enforcement actually protects THE SCAMMER.
"This rule is impossible to enforce sanely" is not an argument for enforcing the rule in an insane manner. It's an argument for scrapping the rule.
Banning people for their own protection is insane. "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
d-£-󦦦º-ó-ꦪ¦¦e¦¦-í-ë-í-󦦦+¦¦¦»-ö¦+b-¥¦º¦¦¦¦¦½¦¦-ö-ëa-Ŧ+-¥¦í¦+-à-à¦ñc¦ó-á¦í-ƒ¦«¦½¦Ö¦¦¦á-ò-çl-Ǧ¢-ü¦+-û¦ƒ¦¦-ô-ë-Ö-ô¦Ñ-ô¦¬¦½e¦+¦¿¦ù¦¦¦ÿ¦ù¦Ñ¦¼-ò-ꦽ¦¦¦+¦+-ö¦¦-à¦á¦ú¦ÿ |
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Crimson Gauntlet
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
10
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 06:53:00 -
[1191] - Quote
Going to go ahead and repeat what someone else already said.
We need this to happen in this thread. |
Sid Hudgens
Totally not an NPC Corp
146
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 06:53:00 -
[1192] - Quote
Crimson Gauntlet wrote:
Answer my point, or at least have the common decency to shut up.
The only high profile "against the rules" scam shenanigans I'm familiar with recently was the guys who ransomed someone for a RL pizza (scamming someone for RL money or goods was not allowed, ever) and the one where someone edited the wiki to indicate that a CCP representative vouched for the scammer (essentially impersonating CCP.)
I'm afraid I don't know the parties involved or what alliance they're from... so I'm not sure if either of those is what you're talking about.
"....as if 10,058 Goon voices cried out and were suddenly silenced." |
Jonah Gravenstein
Sweet Sensations Radical Industries
13786
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 06:55:00 -
[1193] - Quote
Crimson Gauntlet wrote:Going to go ahead and repeat what someone else already said. We need this to happen in this thread. Maybe GM Spiral should post in here, it seems like he doesn't beat around the bush. I am furnishing this post "as is" I do not provide any warranty whatsoever, whether express, implied, or statutory, including, but not limited to, any relevance or fitness for purpose or any warranty that the contents herein are error-free.
Article 8 is ToSh |
Crimson Gauntlet
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
10
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 06:56:00 -
[1194] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Crimson Gauntlet wrote:Going to go ahead and repeat what someone else already said. We need this to happen in this thread. Maybe GM Spiral should post in here, it seems like he doesn't beat around the bush.
No kidding. When I inevitably get petitioned for being a suicide ganker, I hope he's the guy reading my ticket. |
Sid Hudgens
Totally not an NPC Corp
146
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 07:03:00 -
[1195] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Sid Hudgens wrote:How in god's name did you get to that conclusion from what I wrote? Seriously? You're trolling me now right? Please say that you are... Then define a scam in EVE in a way that doesn't amount to "a business deal which one party regrets." If you can't, if I do any business on an alt, and one of the people I do business with regrets the deal, they can petition me for scamming and impersonating my main, therefor I can't do any business on any alts. And that's entirely aside from the fact that, regardless of what the GMs enforce, you shouldn't have to break the rules to engage in legitimate gameplay. Quote:It's not an insane manner. It's probably the only manner in which they can enforce it. If they enforce it any other way and someone like Chribba decides he wants to make an alt and run scams ... then I can get it confirmed, by a GM that the alt is his and ruin his main's reputation. In an EVE universe where impersonating other characters is not allowed, this manner of enforcement actually protects THE SCAMMER. "This rule is impossible to enforce sanely" is not an argument for enforcing the rule in an insane manner. It's an argument for scrapping the rule. Banning people for their own protection is insane.
Ok, I'm going to (seriously) apologize because I don't seem to be bringing my point across (at least to you.) Let me give it another shot...
Non-scam business conducted on alts = OK (why would they even be petitioned? and if petitioned and non-scam why punished?)
Scams conducted on alts that do not involve impersonating any other character (yours or otherwise) = OK
Scams that involve impersonating one character by another character (regardless of if they are both yours) = NOT OK
Is having all scams based on impersonating other characters be against the rules a good idea? Maybe, maybe not ... but it appears it has been for some time.
I do not see any reason why you could not conduct non-scam business on your alts or conduct scams that don't involve impersonating any other character on whatever character you want. "....as if 10,058 Goon voices cried out and were suddenly silenced." |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
4118
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 07:10:00 -
[1196] - Quote
Sid Hudgens wrote:I do not see any reason why you could not conduct non-scam business on your alts or conduct scams that don't involve impersonating any other character on whatever character you want.
You skipped right over most of my post, didn't you? It's ok, it happens a lot. I'll give you another bite at the apple:
What distinguishes a scam from a non-scam in EVE? Because the only halfway decent definition of a scam that fits what's legitimate gameplay in EVE is that if someone regrets the deal, it's a scam.
Which means that, because anyone can decide they regret anything at any time, you can't do business on any alts who have an identified connection to your main, because CCP's going to ban you for your own protection. "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
d-£-󦦦º-ó-ꦪ¦¦e¦¦-í-ë-í-󦦦+¦¦¦»-ö¦+b-¥¦º¦¦¦¦¦½¦¦-ö-ëa-Ŧ+-¥¦í¦+-à-à¦ñc¦ó-á¦í-ƒ¦«¦½¦Ö¦¦¦á-ò-çl-Ǧ¢-ü¦+-û¦ƒ¦¦-ô-ë-Ö-ô¦Ñ-ô¦¬¦½e¦+¦¿¦ù¦¦¦ÿ¦ù¦Ñ¦¼-ò-ꦽ¦¦¦+¦+-ö¦¦-à¦á¦ú¦ÿ |
Crimson Gauntlet
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
10
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 07:11:00 -
[1197] - Quote
Quote:I do not see any reason why you could not conduct non-scam business on your alts or conduct scams that don't involve impersonating any other character on whatever character you want.
Mostly because, as he has been trying to explain to you, a "scam" is defined by the victim. It's actually a business transaction that one party (typically immediately) regrets. It also tends to be avoidable by the victim. The combination results in a ton of hurt feelings.
And, if you have been playing this game long enough, you should know that "victims" in this game tend to be a bunch of butthurt crybabies.
So, as I tried to tell you, people are concerned about the ability of butthurt crybabies who should have known better anyway to get people banned for something that was previously as close to being a sanctioned activity as it's possible to be. |
Sid Hudgens
Totally not an NPC Corp
146
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 07:13:00 -
[1198] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Except that a GM is unlikely to confirm the identity of a scammers main. Somewhere in this thread I'm fairly sure we were told, by a CCP representative, that they can't verify alts and mains because there is no ingame way to do so (actually there is, but a GM said that there isn't, so I'm actually lying here ) edit - the exact text GM Karidor wrote:What needs to be kept in mind regarding impersonations is that all characters involved are seen as their own, independent entity, which effectively means it's quite possible that a situation may appear where a player impersonates his trustworthy main character using an alt character located on the same account. As there is no in-game way to verify whether or not certain characters are located on the same account (the API needs the key and external tools to be read properly, so that one doesn't count here), this case would be handled the very same way as the impersonator character being owned by another player.
Yes, that is actually my entire point! If a GM treated the "I'm Joe's alt" scam differently because that character really is Joe's alt then he is essentially confirming the identity of the scammer's main.
I would be willing to bet that GMs are constrained by CCP policy to never confirm if one character is an alt of another and therefore have no choice but to treat each character as an "independent entity" in order to avoid confirming that information. "....as if 10,058 Goon voices cried out and were suddenly silenced." |
Primary This Rifter
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
37
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 07:21:00 -
[1199] - Quote
Sid Hudgens wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Except that a GM is unlikely to confirm the identity of a scammers main. Somewhere in this thread I'm fairly sure we were told, by a CCP representative, that they can't verify alts and mains because there is no ingame way to do so (actually there is, but a GM said that there isn't, so I'm actually lying here ) edit - the exact text GM Karidor wrote:What needs to be kept in mind regarding impersonations is that all characters involved are seen as their own, independent entity, which effectively means it's quite possible that a situation may appear where a player impersonates his trustworthy main character using an alt character located on the same account. As there is no in-game way to verify whether or not certain characters are located on the same account (the API needs the key and external tools to be read properly, so that one doesn't count here), this case would be handled the very same way as the impersonator character being owned by another player. Yes, that is actually my entire point! If a GM treated the "I'm Joe's alt" scam differently because that character really is Joe's alt then he is essentially confirming the identity of the scammer's main. I would be willing to bet that GMs are constrained by CCP policy to never confirm if one character is an alt of another and therefore have no choice but to treat each character as an "independent entity" in order to avoid confirming that information. Therein lies a fundamental flaw in policy. The only real way to resolve it is either to make impersonating or claiming to represent other characters or groups, even ones you own, against the rules, or it would be to make impersonating or claiming to represent other characters or groups fine and allowed as long as it's within legitimate game mechanics. Alt of [redacted on advice from a reputable internet spaceships lawyer] |
Bob FromMarketing
Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships.
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Posted - 2013.09.13 07:21:00 -
[1200] - Quote
As someone who trades characters, and a huge amount at that, we're talking around 120 characters in the last 10 months, I usually have a handfull of accounts with multiple characters and the need to still contact people. I put across sales offers linking eveboards, rightfully claiming that I own said pilots but I just don't want to or am unable to log out and back in to advertise a skillsheet.
This new rule means that my lack of wanting to re-log (which is a ridiculous task in itself holy **** GG CCP UI design) will get me banned an average of thirteen times in one day.
Thank you CCP, for making my life even more liveable. |
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