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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 17 post(s) |
Frostys Virpio
Lame Corp Name
675
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Posted - 2013.09.11 16:08:00 -
[331] - Quote
KIller Wabbit wrote:My take on this "clarification" - people that have been scammed/AWOX'd over the years have not been filing enough petitions!! What we have all believed to be valid EVE sandbox play has been in violation the whole time. We conned ourselves. lol
This might be partially true. Did anyone from CCP ever provide a clear text saying scamming was legal or was it always the player refering to past case of not getting banned saying it's legal because X, Y and Z pulled it off before? |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4665
|
Posted - 2013.09.11 16:10:00 -
[332] - Quote
KIller Wabbit wrote:My take on this "clarification" - people that have been scammed/AWOX'd over the years have not been filing enough petitions!! What we have all believed to be valid EVE sandbox play has been in violation the whole time. We conned ourselves. lol Yeah, I'm going to have to form the Official Goonswarm Space Lawyer squad, where we fight our enemies by getting exceedingly high and then petitioning our enemies for anything that we can come up with. |
Khanh'rhh
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2125
|
Posted - 2013.09.11 16:10:00 -
[333] - Quote
GM Karidor wrote:[...]Where does Customer Support draw the line for impersonation? As much as we'd love to be able to draw a clear line, it is quite impossible. Impersonation can take various forms, and each with endless subtleties involved. While most cases luckily (for us GMs, that is) tend to be rather clear, being the most obvious form of impersonation by taking up a similar character name from another player for malicious purposes, more and more players are attempting much more subtle attempts. What needs to be kept in mind regarding impersonations is that all characters involved are seen as their own, independent entity, which effectively means it's quite possible that a situation may appear where a player impersonates his trustworthy main character using an alt character located on the same account. As there is no in-game way to verify whether or not certain characters are located on the same account (the API needs the key and external tools to be read properly, so that one doesn't count here), this case would be handled the very same way as the impersonator character being owned by another player. So you're saying the tools CCP created so that players can perform verification on an account level are not good enough to perform the action of verification on the account level? What in the actual **** kind of nonsense is this?
I mean, this besides the fact that if I convo player a) and say "Hi, I am Chribba's alt please give me money for some reason" and the person says "Prove it, message me from Chribba" and I say "lol cant bro because reasons" then player a is now protected via the TOS?
This is pretty hilariously stupid, and you are struggling ITT because there's no position you can take on the new TOS which isn't "it's changed to enforce more situations" and you're simply replying with "no its the same despite all these reasons that its new". "Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual, issued in the 1930 |
Kaeda Maxwell
Calamitous-Intent
197
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Posted - 2013.09.11 16:10:00 -
[334] - Quote
Seems I'm in the Austria-Hungary described by Franz Kafka, where I can be put on 'trial' for an allegedly committed offence, but the legislating power won't tell my what that offence is, nor what the law allegedly broken actually states or applies to.
Grand job, you managed to seriously add to the sense of a callous and pitiless universe that you market EVE as. Random justice delivered by untouchable all powerful legislators.
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Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
1046
|
Posted - 2013.09.11 16:10:00 -
[335] - Quote
KIller Wabbit wrote:My take on this "clarification" - people that have been scammed/AWOX'd over the years have not been filing enough petitions!! What we have all believed to be valid EVE sandbox play has been in violation the whole time. We conned ourselves. lol
Apparently that's literally what they'd have us believe. Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
4089
|
Posted - 2013.09.11 16:12:00 -
[336] - Quote
The good news about this new "correctly claiming your alt is related to your main gets you banned" rule is that sussing out where the line is just got easier.
No longer do you need to actually scam or get scammed to perform tests. Just roll up a host of trial accounts and start lying to yourself like a mythomanic schizophrenic. You'll then, quite naturally, have to petition yourself for representing yourself as an alt of yourself, and through that find out what forms of representation are banned.
I believe this sums up my opinion on the reasonableness of this new massive change in the TOS. "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
d-£-󦦦º-ó-ꦪ¦¦e¦¦-í-ë-í-󦦦+¦¦¦»-ö¦+b-¥¦º¦¦¦¦¦½¦¦-ö-ëa-Ŧ+-¥¦í¦+-à-à¦ñc¦ó-á¦í-ƒ¦«¦½¦Ö¦¦¦á-ò-çl-Ǧ¢-ü¦+-û¦ƒ¦¦-ô-ë-Ö-ô¦Ñ-ô¦¬¦½e¦+¦¿¦ù¦¦¦ÿ¦ù¦Ñ¦¼-ò-ꦽ¦¦¦+¦+-ö¦¦-à¦á¦ú¦ÿ |
Murk Paradox
Red Tsunami The Cursed Few
474
|
Posted - 2013.09.11 16:14:00 -
[337] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:KIller Wabbit wrote:My take on this "clarification" - people that have been scammed/AWOX'd over the years have not been filing enough petitions!! What we have all believed to be valid EVE sandbox play has been in violation the whole time. We conned ourselves. lol Yeah, I'm going to have to form the Official Goonswarm Space Lawyer squad, where we fight our enemies by getting exceedingly high and then petitioning our enemies for anything that we can come up with.
It's the new meta!
=( "But my favourite visual experience in Eve was a pipebombing run on a digital projector. Sure, the aliasing can never match the perfection of a 2160p image - but you can't beat a five metre space volcano on your wall." - Lord Maldoror(RnK)
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Vol Arm'OOO
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
90
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Posted - 2013.09.11 16:15:00 -
[338] - Quote
The funny part about all of this is that for many of us it was the meta game that brought us to eve in the first place. I never heard of eve until I read something in the news about these guys (Guiding Hand?) infiltrating a corp, stealing all of its isk and then killing off its CEO. It was that story that brought me to eve and i'm sure there was more then a little impersonation, scamming and lying going on there. And once people actually find eve IMO its certainly not the actual eve game play that keeps them here. Push approach, push orbit - shoot red x, move on to next x - is not exactly exciting game play. Rather its the meta game that makes eve compelling. Without the meta game, eve is boring to its core.
I know that ccp has been on the path of making this game "more accessible" in their eyes - e.g. eliminating can flipping, telling you how to fit and fly your ship by giving it defined roles, dumbing down scanning, etc... Each of these changes have been relatively small steps in and of themselves, but in aggregate they show that CCP's distrust of the sandbox. Yet despite everything. the meta game remained unchanged, and was still a draw for eve. Now they changing all up. Its a shame really. But nothing lasts for ever.
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Solstice Project
I'm So Meta Even This Acronym
3908
|
Posted - 2013.09.11 16:19:00 -
[339] - Quote
I'm So Meta, Even This Acronym got banned. |
Kismeteer
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
340
|
Posted - 2013.09.11 16:20:00 -
[340] - Quote
There is any easy solution to this, I guess.
If you think someone is impersonating another group, petition it. If they're petitioning an NPC, petition it. If they're impersonating a possible alt, petition it.
We can just put it on the GMs to decide what is legit or not rather than relying on the players.
Oh, and before you accept a business deal, make sure to petition them so that you're sure it's a legit deal. |
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Ansa Lanka
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2013.09.11 16:24:00 -
[341] - Quote
I believe that GM Karidor should be banned for impersonating the people who can actually change the ToS. |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
254
|
Posted - 2013.09.11 16:25:00 -
[342] - Quote
I am impersonating representative of representative of CONCORD. Sue me. New CQ prototype |
Kat Ayclism
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
25
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Posted - 2013.09.11 16:25:00 -
[343] - Quote
Start a corp with the most lax recruitment standards ever (use reddit, lel). Ask for people's alts ingame when applying. Petition every last one of them. Roll in tears. |
Dersen Lowery
Laurentson INC StructureDamage
747
|
Posted - 2013.09.11 16:25:00 -
[344] - Quote
I just thought about it a bit, and I'm not sure that safari and wardec alts will necessarily be affected so much. You can, with depressingly high odds, simply apply to a lot of corps blindly, get accepted, and do whatever.
I would also be interested to know where something like this falls: tl;dr, using pick-up artist techniques to sweet-talk your way into corps. Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables. |
Murk Paradox
Red Tsunami The Cursed Few
474
|
Posted - 2013.09.11 16:27:00 -
[345] - Quote
Vol Arm'OOO wrote:The funny part about all of this is that for many of us it was the meta game that brought us to eve in the first place. I never heard of eve until I read something in the news about these guys (Guiding Hand?) infiltrating a corp, stealing all of its isk and then killing off its CEO. It was that story that brought me to eve and i'm sure there was more then a little impersonation, scamming and lying going on there. And once people actually find eve IMO its certainly not the actual eve game play that keeps them here. Push approach, push orbit - shoot red x, move on to next x - is not exactly exciting game play. Rather its the meta game that makes eve compelling. Without the meta game, eve is boring to its core.
I know that ccp has been on the path of making this game "more accessible" in their eyes - e.g. eliminating can flipping, telling you how to fit and fly your ship by giving it defined roles, dumbing down scanning, etc... Each of these changes have been relatively small steps in and of themselves, but in aggregate they show CCP's distrust of the sandbox. Yet despite everything, the meta game remained unchanged, and was still a draw for eve. Now they are changing it all up. Its a shame really. But nothing lasts for ever.
You can still do that! Just don't say you're the CEO's alt to get in.
That apparently is bad. "But my favourite visual experience in Eve was a pipebombing run on a digital projector. Sure, the aliasing can never match the perfection of a 2160p image - but you can't beat a five metre space volcano on your wall." - Lord Maldoror(RnK)
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Solstice Project
I'm So Meta Even This Acronym
3909
|
Posted - 2013.09.11 16:29:00 -
[346] - Quote
I just realised that i should be banned, because i was impersonating the resident outlaw of Hek. I didn't research if there already was somebody claiming that title. :( |
Seras VictoriaX
Relentless Grind
14
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Posted - 2013.09.11 16:31:00 -
[347] - Quote
Aryth wrote:Yeah, I tend to agree. Can we get someone more senior in CCP to chime in here? This has descended into bizzaro land at this point. +1
This is getting insane.
Can we also get some more CSM posts in this thread?
-Thank you |
Frostys Virpio
Lame Corp Name
675
|
Posted - 2013.09.11 16:35:00 -
[348] - Quote
Dersen Lowery wrote:I just thought about it a bit, and I'm not sure that safari and wardec alts will necessarily be affected so much. You can, with depressingly high odds, simply apply to a lot of corps blindly, get accepted, and do whatever. I would also be interested to know where something like this falls: tl;dr, using pick-up artist techniques to sweet-talk your way into corps.
It will depend if CCP think you should state who you are. If not then it should pass. If not, well they can claim you are impersonating a newbie... |
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
1393
|
Posted - 2013.09.11 16:36:00 -
[349] - Quote
Seras VictoriaX wrote:Aryth wrote:Yeah, I tend to agree. Can we get someone more senior in CCP to chime in here? This has descended into bizzaro land at this point. +1 This is getting insane. Can we also get some more CSM posts in this thread? -Thank you
CSM members probably don't want to be banned for impersonating a player group whose opinion the GMs actually care about.
Rifterlings pirate corporation is now recruiting pilots for lowsec solo & small gang operations. Visit our website at www.rifterlings.com or join our in game channel weflyrifters to speak to a recruiter. |
Khanh'rhh
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2127
|
Posted - 2013.09.11 16:39:00 -
[350] - Quote
Can we get the GM team banned for misrepresenting CCP as a company who don't want a game that involved any lying in any way? "Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual, issued in the 1930 |
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KIller Wabbit
The Scope Gallente Federation
398
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Posted - 2013.09.11 16:45:00 -
[351] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote:Utremi Fasolasi wrote:Varius Xeral wrote:Utterly pointless hand-waving; might as well have not posted anything.
The new wording does not at all reflect past policy with reference to representing yourself as a member of a group. Come back and try again when you've actually addressed the community's concerns. How would you know when the ongoings in petitions are not released to outside parties? There is this place where a lot of us post about EVE outside of EVE where we can freely discuss such things.
Several of them actually. Encourage all to visit them to get the real info that CCP refuses to provide, even if it is critical to making a decision about paying RL money for their services.
CCP Punkturis-á "I want to get in on the goodposter circle jerk!"
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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4487
|
Posted - 2013.09.11 16:51:00 -
[352] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Dersen Lowery wrote:I just thought about it a bit, and I'm not sure that safari and wardec alts will necessarily be affected so much. You can, with depressingly high odds, simply apply to a lot of corps blindly, get accepted, and do whatever. I would also be interested to know where something like this falls: tl;dr, using pick-up artist techniques to sweet-talk your way into corps. It will depend if CCP think you should state who you are. If not then it should pass. If not, well they can claim you are impersonating a newbie... Oh my, yes.
I must keep this in mind if ever someone does this to my corp/ There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
Khanh'rhh
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2127
|
Posted - 2013.09.11 16:52:00 -
[353] - Quote
I mean, many of the events that caused the largest influx of players to Eve online (i.e. made the news) were relating to scams and meta-gaming that is now bannable under the TOS.
If you can't see why your player-base is completely up in arms that you're now banning the very same behaviour that made them subscribe in the first place, you have a huge issue.
I guess I wonder less and less why Soundwave leaped off the boat, he smelt smoke. "Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual, issued in the 1930 |
Orakkus
Winds of Dawn Kraken.
145
|
Posted - 2013.09.11 16:56:00 -
[354] - Quote
Seras VictoriaX wrote:Aryth wrote:Yeah, I tend to agree. Can we get someone more senior in CCP to chime in here? This has descended into bizzaro land at this point. +1 This is getting insane. Can we also get some more CSM posts in this thread? -Thank you
+1 to both of these statements. The GM responses are not what we should be hearing. |
BadAssMcKill
Love Squad
354
|
Posted - 2013.09.11 17:03:00 -
[355] - Quote
Foot meet grave http://i.imgur.com/6j6cIZE.gif-á |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4487
|
Posted - 2013.09.11 17:03:00 -
[356] - Quote
Khanh'rhh wrote:I mean, many of the events that caused the largest influx of players to Eve online (i.e. made the news) were relating to scams and meta-gaming that is now bannable under the TOS.
If you can't see why your player-base is completely up in arms that you're now banning the very same behaviour that made them subscribe in the first place, you have a huge issue.
I guess I wonder less and less why Soundwave leaped off the boat, he smelt smoke. Maybe he was about to get caught for impersonating someone There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4487
|
Posted - 2013.09.11 17:05:00 -
[357] - Quote
Orakkus wrote:Seras VictoriaX wrote:Aryth wrote:Yeah, I tend to agree. Can we get someone more senior in CCP to chime in here? This has descended into bizzaro land at this point. This is getting insane. Can we also get some more CSM posts in this thread? -Thank you +1 to both of these statements. The GM responses are not what we should be hearing. I think they've clarified that you scammers, yes you badguy scammers, are screwed. There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
Capqu
Love Squad
230
|
Posted - 2013.09.11 17:05:00 -
[358] - Quote
GM Grimmi wrote:Greetings pilots,
We would like to address your concerns regarding the update to article 8 of our TOS that was published yesterday. Some basic information on how we deal with issues that come up regarding impersonation is therefore appropriate.
All cases are investigated individually on a case by case basis. If there are complications or difficulties in reaching a solution cases are moved to senior game masters, which happens a lot with the impersonation issues that are reported to us. There are no magic catch-all rules and policies to cover every eventuality so they must interpret the rules we have in place and apply them to the issue at hand in order to keep the peace. For all practical purposes there has been no change in how impersonation issues will be handled compared to the last few years. The TOS update reflects the way reported cases of impersonation have been handled by Customer Support for a long time. The rules applied have been buried in our naming policy and EULA but have now been placed in plain view in order to better help players to make decisions on how they interact with one another.
As cases are investigated GMs look at the information that is available, one of the important considerations being the intent behind a playerGÇÖs actions. Benevolent roleplaying of NPC entities may not be considered to warrant action in regards to impersonation while malicious activity employing such trickery will not be tolerated.
One concern is that we have pretty much banned all scams in EVE. Clearly, this is not the case.
Thank you and fly safe.
where exactly have you made this clear?
rules should be simple and easy to follow, not open to interpretation like you guys seem to think http://pizza.eve-kill.net |
Zagdul
Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension
1367
|
Posted - 2013.09.11 17:09:00 -
[359] - Quote
CCP has basically written in the rules of entrapment into the game.
Which is something we use daily as a source of income to scam people out of their money and designed to protect the dumb.
When it would have been easier to just put in the TOSQuote:: No using CCP servers or resources to impersonate a player, corporation alliance, in-game entity or character on an account you do not own or represent. Representation is defined as membership to an organization within the game which are player owned. All characters and accounts can be linked through your account management page.
Isn't this site supposed to be SSO?
@CCP GM's: You're banning and making 'outlaws' of the people who keep you employed.
v0v. Dual Pane idea: Click!
CCP Please Implement |
Heimdallofasgard
Apex Overplayed Coalition
483
|
Posted - 2013.09.11 17:14:00 -
[360] - Quote
Khanh'rhh wrote:I mean, many of the events that caused the largest influx of players to Eve online (i.e. made the news) were relating to scams and meta-gaming that is now bannable under the TOS.
If you can't see why your player-base is completely up in arms that you're now banning the very same behaviour that made them subscribe in the first place, you have a huge issue.
I guess I wonder less and less why Soundwave leaped off the boat, he smelt smoke.
QFT
Also: Karidor: I'd stop impersonating someone who makes decisions on the ToS, it's bannable now :3
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