Nah, why would we do that? Then no one uses them and we don't actually make any isk for them. Unless you're saying you're dumb enough to pay a 70% tax anyway.

Here's what really happens.

You train the skill right away, lowering the NPC portion of the tax to 5%.

Then, we seize the POCOs right away, at least some of them, and set our own tax to something - probably, as it happens, 5%.

Then RvB or someone contests our pocos and in the ongoing monthlong war, they're constantly being destroyed and reinforced, such that everyone who was using them before moves to different systems.

1. Turning hi-sec into another warzone is just stupid. You have low-sec, faction warfare, and nul-sec for that. A safe industrial base is what many players DEPEND on in order not have to be beholden to a few Alliances. Or players who don't want to deal with being raped by some gank squad or goon BLOB everytime they log online and want to simply sell something.

2. Many hi-sec players will not be able to compete or fight militarily a large alliance. This is just delusional. And if you think spending 500 mil for PI access is worth it - that's just off the charts crazy thinking.

You just know there will be deployed highsec poco mafia in every highsec region after nov 19'th

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I don't know why tax should be payed to NPC, you destroyed their POCO and you placed yours and you still paying to them...this is fail logic.

This isn't really true. Sure the large alliance could roll through highsec killing reinforcing player owned customs offices, but the advantages you ascribe to the wardec scenario for the little guy are many times magnified if its a suspect flag situation. You can still call in allies, setup defence fleets, pretty traps etc because the large alliance fleet hitting the office will be suspect. And you'd be able to do it with some true surprise because lack of wardecs = unexpected escalations. And of course the cost for wardec fee is many times more significant for the little guys than the large alliance. Cost to grief a small outfit out of its POCO? = peanuts. Cost to take it back + hire mercs + fund friend's wardecs (billions a week). No way can that be said to protect any small power.

So in essence no, it doesn't protect the little guys, it actively hinders them. (Which admittedly may be the point of the devblog and feature.)

I don't know why tax should be payed to NPC, you destroyed their POCO and you placed yours and you still paying to them...this is fail logic.

+1

Some thoughts:

1. Penalize alliances for "spreading thin" their POCO empire, ie having too many, while keeping it attractive.


• For example, make the cost to wardec inversely proportional to the number of POCOs an alliance owns in hisec. The more they own, the cheaper it is to wardec for POCO control.


• Or, require that a planet that they want a POCO at needs to have at least one command center owned by an alliance member. CCs can be placed before a POCO is placed. A simple enough task, but requires a little more motivation on a large scale.


2. Or, Force attentiveness. Again, nothing too crazy, keep it attractive.


• For example, add a mechanic that would allow another entity to begin placing a POCO at a planet where there already exists one. Send a notification that within 5 days if no action is taken, their POCO will be replaced by the challengers. With the required action simply to go to the planet and click a button. The challenger loses their materials invested.


• Or, make it so that a POCO's orbit needs to be "corrected" every 20 days. The owner must go to the POCO and click a button to correct the POCOs orbit, or it will burn up in the atmosphere.

What will happen is that very very few alliances are gong to war dec goons repeatedly for the opportunity to take down your POCO's, at least high sec alliances that would actually use these POCO's. Sure RvB might dec you, once. But the vast vast majority of high sec groups do not have the manpower, cash, or insanity to dec the goons.

CCP, why put npc tax on a player owned structure?

The tax is paid directly to CONCORD, for the structures protection in High-Sec. Compare with Low-Sec, no tax paid to CONCORD, no protection from CONCORD.

Players who invest time to train themselves in Customs Code Expertise will eventually be able to barter for better tax rates from CONCORD, though not eliminate them completely.

The tax is paid directly to CONCORD, for the structures protection in High-Sec. Compare with Low-Sec, no tax paid to CONCORD, no protection from CONCORD.

Players who invest time to train themselves in Customs Code Expertise will eventually be able to barter for better tax rates from CONCORD, though not eliminate them completely.

The tax is paid directly to CONCORD, for the structures protection in High-Sec. Compare with Low-Sec, no tax paid to CONCORD, no protection from CONCORD.

Players who invest time to train themselves in Customs Code Expertise will eventually be able to barter for better tax rates from CONCORD, though not eliminate them completely.

Yeah - why balance anything in the game right? Why should ships be balanced? Anyone who has a trillion bucks should be able to push an I win button and that will make it fun for all new subscribers and all the rest of the players in the sand box.

Thank you Einstein - let me ring you up when I'm thinking about building a new fun and varied MMO.

looks like balance to me, it seems you think balance is that in a cold and harsh game the deliberately helpless and weak should simply have things handed to them

The problem with one custom office per planet - is it allows a monopoly of the planet by Big Alliances. Now if a player had several custom offices to choose from, there would be actual competition like in a real economy.

Tthe new proposed changes is the ability of the controlling Big Alliance (and don't fool yourself, the more valuable custom offices like Lava planets will be taken over within weeks by the Big Alliances) - imports can be shut down completely except those they choose to include, and ridiculous rates can be charged for exports (although hi-sec players can avoid this by making PI an even more laborious grind by simply bypassing the customs altogether - but given just how unpleasant PI is already, who's going to want to grind even more - given you can no longer import??)

This pretty much is a handover of more power to the Big Players/Alliances in the game - and fails to recognize the number of players who play EVE as a sand box who have alts in hi-sec specifically to avoid the nul-sec gameplay or the power so many of the already rich players have in Eve.

Another side-effect will be the cost of maintaining small POS's in hi-sec by smaller corporations will go up considerably - as PI fuel supplies will be MONOPOLIZED by the BIG ALLIANCES.

This change is a one-sided change - does not benefit all players in Eve. It benefits by a LION'S SHARE the big power players. It leaves small solo players and small corporations OUT IN THE COLD.

Hi-sec is where all new players start off. IT ISN'T A FUKKKING SAND BOX IF ALL THEY CAN DO IS WHAT SOME BIG ALLIANCE FORCES THEM TO DO WHEN THEY START PLAYING EVE - IS IT?

MORONS.

The tax is paid directly to CONCORD, for the structures protection in High-Sec. Compare with Low-Sec, no tax paid to CONCORD, no protection from CONCORD.

Players who invest time to train themselves in Customs Code Expertise will eventually be able to barter for better tax rates from CONCORD, though not eliminate them completely.

Nah, why would we do that? Then no one uses them and we don't actually make any isk for them. Unless you're saying you're dumb enough to pay a 70% tax anyway.

Here's what really happens.

You train the skill right away, lowering the NPC portion of the tax to 5%.

Then, we seize the POCOs right away, at least some of them, and set our own tax to something - probably, as it happens, 5%.

Then RvB or someone contests our pocos and in the ongoing monthlong war, they're constantly being destroyed and reinforced, such that everyone who was using them before moves to different systems.

There are no Goonswarm POCOs in hisec and the wretches are already wailing. Goddamn.

But, the person doing PI is paying the tax, not the owner of the POCO. At the same time, POS owners aren't paying a per-use tax to have CONCORD protection. I don't have to pay per-use tax to CONCORD for protection of my ship.

CONCORD should take a fixed percentage of the POCO owner's income. The put the skill in the corporation tree and let corp directors train it to reduce the tax. If the issue is still that players might get PI goods for free in highsec, cap the minimum tax rate at 5%.

Is it just me or does it seem rather unsettling and/or corrupt for Mynnna to be both on the CSM, a major stakeholder in the GSF, and talking about possible GSF tactics regarding POCOs in high sec ? It seems to remind me of RL situations involving union reps also holding sub-management positions in companies and conflicts of interest deriving from the combination of posts/telling employees & union members what to do.
(I won't go any further into that RL situation lest I land myself in RL trouble. )

This isn't really true. Sure the large alliance could roll through highsec killing reinforcing player owned customs offices, but the advantages you ascribe to the wardec scenario for the little guy are many times magnified if its a suspect flag situation. You can still call in allies, setup defence fleets, pretty traps etc because the large alliance fleet hitting the office will be suspect. And you'd be able to do it with some true surprise because lack of wardecs = unexpected escalations. And of course the cost for wardec fee is many times more significant for the little guys than the large alliance. Cost to grief a small outfit out of its POCO? = peanuts. Cost to take it back + hire mercs + fund friend's wardecs (billions a week). No way can that be said to protect any small power.

So in essence no, it doesn't protect the little guys, it actively hinders them. (Which admittedly may be the point of the devblog and feature.)

I like the idea of more than one POCO being able to be anchored around a planet. That is very.......capitalist.

While you seem to think that things should be handed to the big guy.

I believe he and others don't want to see the system itself simply pull something they have out of their hands and handed over to the biggest alliances.

Given those opposing views, taking a stance somewhere in the middle would be the way to find balance, no?

[quote=Elana Maggal]

1) Actually the game needs to get away from it's safe industrial base. It's turned the game into spreadsheets online and industrial tasks in-game is little more than applied accountancy.

So all that's going to happen is a large nullsec entity hits a whole bunch of highsec customs offices and puts up their own pocos setting 60% tax, meaning I pay 70% tax overall.

It then costs me 500 mill to dec them to hit their poco, which I wont bother doing as to make that back from hisec pi will take months.

So basically your giving large null alliances free isk.

GG

Maybe if you hold sov you shouldn't be able to hold highsec pocos?