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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 12 post(s) |
Zane Ziebold
Mom 'n' Pop Ammo Shoppe R.E.P.O.
19
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Posted - 2013.10.01 16:27:00 -
[61] - Quote
So what happens when the last InterBus Customs offices gets destroyed? |
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
224
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Posted - 2013.10.01 16:30:00 -
[62] - Quote
Zane Ziebold wrote:So what happens when the last InterBus Customs offices gets destroyed?
then GBS LOGISTICS AND FIVES SUPPORT [MY 5S] will own all customs offices ever in the history of ever |
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation Ineluctable.
18
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Posted - 2013.10.01 16:30:00 -
[63] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:Elana Maggal wrote:So you pretty much hand over PI to the larger alliances, **** over smaller solo players, and make Hi-sec more like low-sec and null-sec which stupidly is considered a "good thing".
PI was a boring piece of crap anyway so - goodbye PI.
heaven forbid in this massively multiplayer game one might get advantages from being able to work with other people
In your aka the particularly ugly case of an alliance that is devoted to make the gameplay experience for all people of this game worse and unenjoyable: Yes, definitely heaven forbid. Your attitude alone proves all the negative sentiments against your alliance/coalition.
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Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5099
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Posted - 2013.10.01 16:34:00 -
[64] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote: In your aka the particularly ugly case of an alliance that is devoted to make the gameplay experience for all people of this game worse and unenjoyable: Yes, definitely heaven forbid. Your attitude alone proves all the negative sentiments against your alliance/coalition.
not all people, just all the people who happen to not be in our alliance or blue list |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5100
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Posted - 2013.10.01 16:35:00 -
[65] - Quote
but most of those people are barely human they're things like highseccers and test |
Aryth
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1222
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Posted - 2013.10.01 16:36:00 -
[66] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:Rivr Luzade wrote: In your aka the particularly ugly case of an alliance that is devoted to make the gameplay experience for all people of this game worse and unenjoyable: Yes, definitely heaven forbid. Your attitude alone proves all the negative sentiments against your alliance/coalition.
not all people, just all the people who happen to not be in our alliance or blue list
To be fair here, it includes some of those people as well. Just fugging diplomats won't let us terrorize them too. Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal - Want to follow the latest scandals? @EVEAryth |
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CCP Paradox
953
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Posted - 2013.10.01 16:36:00 -
[67] - Quote
Promiscuous Female wrote:Zane Ziebold wrote:So what happens when the last InterBus Customs offices gets destroyed? then GBS LOGISTICS AND FIVES SUPPORT [MY 5S] will own all customs offices ever in the history of ever
There are still lots of InterBus owned customs offices in Low-Sec for you to shoot... CCP Paradox | EVE Quality Assurance | Team Super Friends @CCP_Paradox |
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Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
224
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Posted - 2013.10.01 16:37:00 -
[68] - Quote
CCP Paradox wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:Zane Ziebold wrote:So what happens when the last InterBus Customs offices gets destroyed? then GBS LOGISTICS AND FIVES SUPPORT [MY 5S] will own all customs offices ever in the history of ever There are still lots of InterBus owned customs offices in Low-Sec for you to shoot... it's a long term project okay |
mynnna
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1892
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Posted - 2013.10.01 16:43:00 -
[69] - Quote
Bethan Le Troix wrote:mynnna wrote:Elemenohpee wrote:So all that's going to happen is a large nullsec entity hits a whole bunch of highsec customs offices and puts up their own pocos setting 60% tax, meaning I pay 70% tax overall.
It then costs me 500 mill to dec them to hit their poco, which I wont bother doing as to make that back from hisec pi will take months.
So basically your giving large null alliances free isk.
GG
Maybe if you hold sov you shouldn't be able to hold highsec pocos? Nah, why would we do that? Then no one uses them and we don't actually make any isk for them. Unless you're saying you're dumb enough to pay a 70% tax anyway. Here's what really happens. You train the skill right away, lowering the NPC portion of the tax to 5%. Then, we seize the POCOs right away, at least some of them, and set our own tax to something - probably, as it happens, 5%. Then RvB or someone contests our pocos and in the ongoing monthlong war, they're constantly being destroyed and reinforced, such that everyone who was using them before moves to different systems. Would not make sense for GSF to take over all of the POCO in high sec and raise to taxes to, for example, 70% ? Then no one would use them and the price for PI materials would go up exponentially so GSF could then make excellent profits on their nullsec PI operations. If this were to happen would the CSM and/or CCP consider this to be a good change ?
We'd make so much less isk off of that than we would by simply running a 5% tax rate.
Maximus Andendare wrote:mynnna wrote:Nah, why would we do that? Then no one uses them and we don't actually make any isk for them. Unless you're saying you're dumb enough to pay a 70% tax anyway. Here's what really happens. You train the skill right away, lowering the NPC portion of the tax to 5%. Then, we seize the POCOs right away, at least some of them, and set our own tax to something - probably, as it happens, 5%. Then RvB or someone contests our pocos and in the ongoing monthlong war, they're constantly being destroyed and reinforced, such that everyone who was using them before moves to different systems. At GSF is admitting that they'll be doing the high sec POCO grab. I fail to see why this surprises anyone. Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal |
pmchem
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
621
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Posted - 2013.10.01 16:43:00 -
[70] - Quote
The doom-and-gloom posts in this thread miss two broader points:
1. CCP has stated repeatedly in dev blogs and fanfest talks that they want to increase "player interactions". Removing a NPC-seeded part of the game and replacing it with a player construction is one step along that path. This is a MMO and it benefits from social interactions. Why do you think that stargate picture is being shown again and again?
2. PI will continue to thrive, but in a different manner. If the easy, convenient COs people had been using come under new ownership or are destroyed, what happens? The player can (a) continue attempting to use that planet, (b) move to a less fought over area, or (c) exit the market. If (a) then no big deal, maybe a price increase passed to consumer. If (b) then GOOD, we have lots of systems in Eve which need more traffic. If (c) then no big deal, some other player will see the decrease in supply lead to a price increase, and enter the market himself. @pmchem on twitter || GARPA || Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal |
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Sern Tanalon
Galactic Extensive Technologies SUB ROSA ALLIANCE
35
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Posted - 2013.10.01 16:46:00 -
[71] - Quote
From what I can tell, the options for a solo/small corp doing PI are as follows:
-> Use the "rocket launch" system and accept fewer m3 of goods per launch and about 20x more launches for the same amount of material put into space (plus the added time limit between launches)
-> Continue as normal and hope that the large alliance du jour does not place an inhibitive tax (which is certainly possible if the alliance wants to profit from high-sec PI, but as so many things in EVE, is not guaranteed)
-> Ask the controlling alliance nicely to work with you on PI (results will vary)
-> Join the controlling alliance, but obviously this ends you status as "solo/small corp"
-> Or, as always, simply terminate PI activities (which will profit everyone else still doing PI by lowering overall supply)
This seems to boil down to many other potential game changes in EvE: If you shift the mechanics to make larger and larger group action more and more favored in risk vs. reward, you will certainly get larger groups in your player base, because players will either join larger entities to survive and continue their chosen gameplay, or stop such gameplay / leave the game when their preferred method of play becomes too impractical.
Thus, after this change, I'd predict that the player base will, in fact, look more like what CCP is hoping for, although perhaps not as large as they would hope for. |
Akrasjel Lanate
Naquatech Conglomerate Naquatech Syndicate
1219
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Posted - 2013.10.01 16:48:00 -
[72] - Quote
Bethan Le Troix wrote:Question for CCP:
With POCOs being introduced into high sec does this mean that material amounts that can be obtained from planets in high sec will be raised to the same amounts as can be obtained from low sec planets? Don't think so |
Akrasjel Lanate
Naquatech Conglomerate Naquatech Syndicate
1219
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Posted - 2013.10.01 16:49:00 -
[73] - Quote
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Sofia Wolf
Ubuntu Inc. The Fourth District
261
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Posted - 2013.10.01 16:51:00 -
[74] - Quote
I doubt 0.0 entities can maintain total monopoly of higsec POCO. Many tools for fast structure grinding are absent in higsec, as is power projection / titan bridging. Furthermore most 0.0 entities can deploy only fraction of their full manpower to higsec structure grinding because of faction standings and security status problems of their line members.
What is possible and likely to happen is that better organised entities, regardless if they are form 0.0, higsec, low sec or wormholes, will attempt to capture better planets near major trade hubs, but much of higsec CO will remain NPC for a long time. Then pvp entities will start reinforcing those PC POCOs just to provoke a fight. What is price of wordecking Goons now? Less then a plex, about a price of pvp tengu? There are many corps/alliances that would gladly pay that for nice afternoon of sniping goon logistics attempting to rep the POCO without any danger of having nagas or tornados tackled by doctor or bombed in single run, or fight being ruined by bunch of capitals or supercaps. Jessica Danikov > EVE is your real life. the rest is fantasy. caught in a corporation. no escape from banality. open up yours eyes, peer through pod good and seeeeeee. I'm just a poor pilot, I need no sympathy. because I'm easy scam, easy go, little isk, little know. anyway the solar wind blows... |
Del DelVechio
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
102
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Posted - 2013.10.01 16:51:00 -
[75] - Quote
All your base are belong to us.... |
W0wbagger
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
27
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Posted - 2013.10.01 16:52:00 -
[76] - Quote
Hi - please don't make the wardec restriction apply to low and nullsec - we frequently buy pocos and not being able to because the corp is at war is just a needless nerf for us - there is no reason for this restriction to exist in low/null and just screws over Pocos in this area even more than this highsec change already does (can't believe that skill is being introduced after the roundtable at fanfest highlighted this issue - this skill will just keep even more people in highsec)
As a potentially more important issue- in the current situation - what is to stop me a neutral, flying up to a poco being bashed in highsec in a hauler/orca whatever with his own poco in the hold - locking it up, waiting for it to die and then deploying his own? - basically means its fastest finger first which is a bit unfair on the guys who have paid to do the wardeccing. This is of course also the case in low/null with the difference that you can just blow up said hauler meaning the mechanic was never too much of an issue. |
Elana Maggal
Perkone Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2013.10.01 16:53:00 -
[77] - Quote
The problem with one custom office per planet - is it allows a monopoly of the planet by Big Alliances. Now if a player had several custom offices to choose from, there would be actual competition like in a real economy.
Tthe new proposed changes is the ability of the controlling Big Alliance (and don't fool yourself, the more valuable custom offices like Lava planets will be taken over within weeks by the Big Alliances) - imports can be shut down completely except those they choose to include, and ridiculous rates can be charged for exports (although hi-sec players can avoid this by making PI an even more laborious grind by simply bypassing the customs altogether - but given just how unpleasant PI is already, who's going to want to grind even more - given you can no longer import??)
This pretty much is a handover of more power to the Big Players/Alliances in the game - and fails to recognize the number of players who play EVE as a sand box who have alts in hi-sec specifically to avoid the nul-sec gameplay or the power so many of the already rich players have in Eve already.
Another side-effect will be the cost of maintaining small POS's in hi-sec by smaller corporations will go up considerably - as PI fuel costs will be MONOPOLIZED by the BIG ALLIANCES.
This change is a one-sided change - does not benefit all players in Eve. It benefits by a LION'S SHARE the big power players. It leaves small solo players and small corporations OUT IN THE COLD.
Hi-sec is where all new players start off. IT ISN'T A FUKKKING SAND BOX IF ALL THEY CAN DO IS WHAT SOME BIG ALLIANCE FORCES THEM TO DO WHEN THEY START PLAYING EVE - IS IT?
MORONS.
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Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
1268
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Posted - 2013.10.01 16:54:00 -
[78] - Quote
I love how many times people are repeating "but this forces hiseccers to interact!" as if it wasn't the entire point in the first place.
Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal |
Schmata Bastanold
The brothers inc WHYS0 Expendable
1003
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Posted - 2013.10.01 16:54:00 -
[79] - Quote
Who cares about those hotdogs stands in space, start posting what really matters: ships balancing, warp changes, those deployables you showed us on stream and all joicy things not yet revealed. I am not my skills but... http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schmata_Bastanold |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
9190
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Posted - 2013.10.01 16:57:00 -
[80] - Quote
heaven forbid CCP slightly trims the massive amount of cotton wool wrapped around every hisec player and allows groups to compete over assets in hisec Twitter: @EVEAndski
TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest.-á |
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Elana Maggal
Perkone Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2013.10.01 16:58:00 -
[81] - Quote
Varius Xeral wrote:I love how many times people are repeating "but this forces hiseccers to interact!" as if it wasn't the entire point in the first place.
FORCING.
Exactly what a SAND BOX is not suppose to be.
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Elana Maggal
Perkone Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2013.10.01 17:01:00 -
[82] - Quote
Andski wrote:heaven forbid CCP slightly trims the massive amount of cotton wool wrapped around every hisec player and allows groups to compete over assets in hisec
Yeah - except there is no competition here. The Big Alliances win. Game over. Anything else and you're just deluding yourself.
Now if there were SEVERAL custom offices at each planet, there might be actual competition ...
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Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
9190
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Posted - 2013.10.01 17:05:00 -
[83] - Quote
maybe you can compete with the big alliances by starting a big alliance of your own Twitter: @EVEAndski
TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest.-á |
Blondie Jiggles
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2013.10.01 17:08:00 -
[84] - Quote
Hah this is a joke right?
HS PI is NOT worth fighting over ! The taxes are way too high and the yields of key ingredients are way too low. The pathetic low yields of HS PI will NOT cover the expenses of fighting over POCO's, certainly for the small corps. Just save us the trouble and transfer all assets to Goonswarm and delete my account.
Alternatively, leave HS PI alone and fix something meaningful like; 1.stop me from falling asleep while mining (add an asteroids client - ie shoot asteroids while you mine asteroids, the better you shoot the faster you mine ;) (or give mining bots to everybody) 2..make low sec relevant. I dont exactly know how, I just know its broken (I haven't been there but would like to without the need to share my profits with the support fleet who are trying not to fall asleep while waiting for the swarm of goons to jump in and blow up everything)
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Elana Maggal
Perkone Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2013.10.01 17:09:00 -
[85] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:Elana Maggal wrote:So you pretty much hand over PI to the larger alliances, **** over smaller solo players, and make Hi-sec more like low-sec and null-sec which stupidly is considered a "good thing".
PI was a boring piece of crap anyway so - goodbye PI.
heaven forbid in this massively multiplayer game one might get advantages from being able to work with other people
You're delusional if giving a big alliance a monopoly over a custom's office is "WORKING WITH OTHER PEOPLE"
And PS: by the way, believe it or not, many computer players are SOLO or a few players at best. Not everyone including EVE players play in some big turd dropping GOON/CSM/CPP infested alliance. |
Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
1361
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Posted - 2013.10.01 17:09:00 -
[86] - Quote
If the CSM (anyone remember them)? was largely made up of null-sec folk who would be happy with this change as they 'might' benefit from it, then there could be a slight suspicion that they were furthering their own sectional interests by supporting this.
This is not a signature. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
9190
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Posted - 2013.10.01 17:10:00 -
[87] - Quote
Elana Maggal wrote:You're delusional if giving a big alliance a monopoly over a custom's office is "WORKING WITH OTHER PEOPLE"
And PS: by the way, believe it or not, many computer players are SOLO or a few players at best. Not everyone including EVE players play in some big turd dropping GOON/CSM/CPP infested alliance.
doesn't a big alliance consist of a large number of people working with others Twitter: @EVEAndski
TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest.-á |
mynnna
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1892
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Posted - 2013.10.01 17:12:00 -
[88] - Quote
Blondie Jiggles wrote:Hah this is a joke right?
HS PI is NOT worth fighting over ! The taxes are way too high and the yields of key ingredients are way too low. The pathetic low yields of HS PI will NOT cover the expenses of fighting over POCO's, certainly for the small corps. Just save us the trouble and transfer all assets to Goonswarm and delete my account.
Alternatively, leave HS PI alone and fix something meaningful like; 1.stop me from falling asleep while mining (add an asteroids client - ie shoot asteroids while you mine asteroids, the better you shoot the faster you mine ;) (or give mining bots to everybody) 2..make low sec relevant. I dont exactly know how, I just know its broken (I haven't been there but would like to without the need to share my profits with the support fleet who are trying not to fall asleep while waiting for the swarm of goons to jump in and blow up everything)
If they're not worth fighting over, why are we salivating so hard at the chance to own them? Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal |
Dramaticus
Goonswarm Federation
400
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Posted - 2013.10.01 17:16:00 -
[89] - Quote
Elana Maggal wrote:Weaselior wrote:Elana Maggal wrote:So you pretty much hand over PI to the larger alliances, **** over smaller solo players, and make Hi-sec more like low-sec and null-sec which stupidly is considered a "good thing".
PI was a boring piece of crap anyway so - goodbye PI.
heaven forbid in this massively multiplayer game one might get advantages from being able to work with other people You're delusional if giving a big alliance a monopoly over a custom's office is "WORKING WITH OTHER PEOPLE" And PS: by the way, believe it or not, many computer players are SOLO or a small group of friends at best. Not everyone including EVE players play in some big turd dropping GOON/CSM/CPP infested alliance.
Bringing emergent gameplay to you, one turd at a time. bring back images |
None ofthe Above
681
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Posted - 2013.10.01 17:22:00 -
[90] - Quote
Aryth wrote:As the person that developed the highsec poco plans...Your fears of Goons taking over all the highsec pocos are completely unfounded. It isn't required or desired.
What you should really be worried about hasn't even been brought up yet.
Aaand later you guys say:
mynnna wrote:Bethan Le Troix wrote:At GSF is admitting that they'll be doing the high sec POCO grab.
I fail to see why this surprises anyone.
Nice job keeping up the pretense. Didn't last long.
Parsing this out, I presume that the grab will probably be selective. Certain areas may be untouched. But you'll be taking key regions worth of POCOs.
I am not sure I care who does this. CFC has the largest resources to do this, but they are not the only people to be concerned about.
I foresee a huge brawl in The Forge the likes of the Fountain War. RvB vs Goonswarm with other powers dropping in on various engagements. And that's probably the best case scenario. Worst would be a major power rolling through unopposed.
From the dev blog:
Quote: POCOs in hi sec will give the owner the exact same controls as POCOs in low sec GÇô the owner can set the tax rate as he wants and can have different tax rates based on standings. This includes denying access.
I think the deny access in highsec is going to be a real problem. It makes sense in low and null, but a real problem in high.
NPC taxes are still there, so it's obviously regulated. You may need to special case for high sec and remove the deny by standings and keep a lid on max tax rates. Or else things are likely to really ugly in the production chain. While having null sec alliances play a part in this charge is interesting, I don't think allowing the starvation of highsec PI (unless we all kneel before Zod, Arryth, the Mittani, Mangala or whomever wins the Poco grab) is a good idea. The only end-game content in EVE Online is the crap that makes you rage quit. |
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