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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 23 post(s)
Unforgiven Storm Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation 829	Posted - 2013.10.09 10:53:00 - [91] - Quote Now we have those rare cases that are open to discussion and this is my opinion: RIGS in certificates: Looking at the targeting we see it only demand electronic rigs at level I starting at level III, then at IV demands rigs at level IV and V of course level V, I want to propose a middle ground that makes much more sense: Master Targetting IV should only request electronic rig at III because it makes more sense I ... III ... V than I ... IV ... V ----- the same rule should apply to all other certificated that demand rigs. Warfare Links in Certificates: Any ship not a command ship should only request basic warfare links from mastery 4 or 5 and only demand at 4 warfare links with specialist at level I, and V with specialist at level II Armor resistance phasing in the armor tanking certificate the same as I described in the rigs, It should not go from 1 to 4 to 5 but starting at mastery 3, but from 1 to 3 to 5, it makes more sense. Unforgiven Storm for CSM 9, 10, 11, 12 and 13. (If I don't get in in the next 5 years I will quit trying) :-)

CCP Ytterbium C C P C C P Alliance 2779	Posted - 2013.10.09 10:54:00 - [92] - Quote Unforgiven Storm wrote: I open the mastery for any ship not BS and I see I only get level III. Then I go see why is that and I found out its because navigation IV requests Micro Jump Drive!!! this skill does not make sense in no other ship than a BS. You are using a common Navigation certificate for all ships and this is wrong, like capitals you need to create a navigation certificate 1-5 for each ship class the generic one for frigates to cruisers without MJD and one called BS Navigation with this skill. The same applies to the super carriers, you need a super capital targeting certificate without the sensor compensation skills, because supers are immune to ewar and you don't need to train them. Also where is the drone certificated in any carrier? Also If I'm using a caldari ship why do I must have ladar, radar or magnetometric sensor compensation skills at any level to be master of that ship in any level? the same applies to all ships races. In this case you need racial targeting certificates. Another point is that targeting IV only requires advanced target management III but 5 demands level V, it doesn't make sense, it should be IV, I understand master V should demand all V's but in any rule there should be exceptions when they make sense and this is one of those rare cases. Yes, yes, my pressscious, poor Smeagol is working to fix that, no beatings please?


CCP Ytterbium C C P C C P Alliance 2779	Posted - 2013.10.09 10:56:00 - [93] - Quote Unforgiven Storm wrote: Now we have those rare cases that are open to discussion and this is my opinion: RIGS in certificates: Looking at the targeting we see it only demand electronic rigs at level I starting at level III, then at IV demands rigs at level IV and V of course level V, I want to propose a middle ground that makes much more sense: Master Targetting IV should only request electronic rig at III because it makes more sense I ... III ... V than I ... IV ... V ----- the same rule should apply to all other certificated that demand rigs. Warfare Links in Certificates: Any ship not a command ship should only request basic warfare links from mastery 4 or 5 and only demand at 4 warfare links with specialist at level I, and V with specialist at level II Armor resistance phasing in the armor tanking certificate the same as I described in the rigs, It should not go from 1 to 4 to 5 but starting at mastery 3, but from 1 to 3 to 5, it makes more sense. Usually, level4 certificates allows the user to use tech2 items. And you need rig skill level at 4 to be able to tech2 rigs. Yes, we do realize tech2 rigs may not be super common but we wanted to keep a consistent system going there.

Unforgiven Storm Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation 829	Posted - 2013.10.09 11:01:00 - [94] - Quote CCP Ytterbium wrote: [quote=Unforgiven Storm Yes, yes, my pressscious, poor Smeagol is working to fix that, no beatings please? no, not a beating, by the contrary, what you all did with the new certificate is very good stuff, that is what I'm in the test server to give you a hand, that is the only thing I can do to help out. Also, anything about alliance build certificates? the system allows it? will that ever happen? Unforgiven Storm for CSM 9, 10, 11, 12 and 13. (If I don't get in in the next 5 years I will quit trying) :-)
Unforgiven Storm Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation 829	Posted - 2013.10.09 11:13:00 - [95] - Quote CCP Ytterbium wrote: Unforgiven Storm wrote: Now we have those rare cases that are open to discussion and this is my opinion: RIGS in certificates: Looking at the targeting we see it only demand electronic rigs at level I starting at level III, then at IV demands rigs at level IV and V of course level V, I want to propose a middle ground that makes much more sense: Master Targetting IV should only request electronic rig at III because it makes more sense I ... III ... V than I ... IV ... V ----- the same rule should apply to all other certificated that demand rigs. Warfare Links in Certificates: Any ship not a command ship should only request basic warfare links from mastery 4 or 5 and only demand at 4 warfare links with specialist at level I, and V with specialist at level II Armor resistance phasing in the armor tanking certificate the same as I described in the rigs, It should not go from 1 to 4 to 5 but starting at mastery 3, but from 1 to 3 to 5, it makes more sense. Usually, level4 certificates allows the user to use tech2 items. And you need rig skill level at 4 to be able to tech2 rigs. Yes, we do realize tech2 rigs may not be super common but we wanted to keep a consistent system going there. I understand your point, but lets be realistic here, do we want a system close to the real word that have use and people will identify with it and make sense in players heads or you are build a dream, a nice to have that almost nobody will ever reach? What do we want, players to use and identify with the skills and work with the system and try to reach and train skills to become master X and you provide them a tool that gives them real world tangible data and goals or you just point to the sky and people will just give up because it doesn't make sense in the current world where rigs t2 are extremely rare !!!! Since rigs t2 are basically only used in high end ships like supers or very expensive ships like pirate ships and normally by people that can fly them with mastery 5, basically, why not do the following change: leave it at RIG x level I for mastery 3, level III for mastery 4 and level IV for mastery 5, forget the RIG level V for mastery 5? Resist the V for all skills, there are always exceptions and this one fits the use case, do something that people fell its realistic and not something that has nothing to do with the current world of EVE we play on. One day if t2 rigs are balanced out, materials are balanced out, prices come down and they become a "thing" you can always review the certificates, until then be realistic so people can identify themselves with this new certificate system and use it. Unforgiven Storm for CSM 9, 10, 11, 12 and 13. (If I don't get in in the next 5 years I will quit trying) :-)
Sarah Stallman Pen2 Logistics 11	Posted - 2013.10.09 11:35:00 - [96] - Quote Ship masteries do not list the actual ship skill, (Caldari Battleship, Amarr Cruiser, Logistics, etc). It is likely possible to have Mastery V on a ship you can't fly.
Unforgiven Storm Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation 829	Posted - 2013.10.09 11:44:00 - [97] - Quote - missing a certificate for Dreads that demand they use a siege module - sensor compensation for any dread doesn't make no sense, this ships only should work/fire in siege and when that happens they are immune JF capital navigation asking for any type of RIGS, you are kidding right? lol Jump drive calibration for all capital ships its a must have, specially for carriers since they need it to be able to fly them at level III so for these ships you have to request level 3 at mastery I. the same applies to Jump fuel conservation in carriers, you need it at IV at mastery I or you not even fly the carrier! capital capacity emission is a certificate that any carrier or super carrier pilot should master from mastery level 3 up not only the ships that give bonus for it, like the chimera, those ones you need it from mastery level 1 up correct, but the others should demand it from mastery level 3 at least. JF also need a certificate that should capacitor skills... is import because you need cap to jump. bridge and doomsday skills for titans missing from certificates... marauder new bastion skill missing interditors need a different tacking certificate that includes the bubbles. the same applies to the heavy dictors rorqual, you have bonus to scanning and can use clone vats, you can deploy the industrial module and you can fit capital tractor beams, but no certificates that cover those areas are present. Unforgiven Storm for CSM 9, 10, 11, 12 and 13. (If I don't get in in the next 5 years I will quit trying) :-)
Unforgiven Storm Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation 829	Posted - 2013.10.09 11:49:00 - [98] - Quote when you finish fixing and changing things and deploy them in a new patch in sisi, post here, I will check them for you again. God speed. Unforgiven Storm for CSM 9, 10, 11, 12 and 13. (If I don't get in in the next 5 years I will quit trying) :-)
Garviel Tarrant Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel 1505	Posted - 2013.10.09 11:55:00 - [99] - Quote Also i shouldn't require the ewar drone skill at a high level for frigates! Even though for some bizare reason its highly useful bonus works on all drones... BYDI recruitment closed-ish
Alexander the Great Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 143	Posted - 2013.10.09 12:46:00 - [100] - Quote No JDC5 in cap navigation, seriously?


CCP Ytterbium C C P C C P Alliance 2784	Posted - 2013.10.09 13:17:00 - [101] - Quote Garviel Tarrant wrote: Also i shouldn't require the ewar drone skill at a high level for frigates! Even though for some bizare reason its highly useful bonus works on all drones... The E-war drone skill increases control range of all drones, and thus is an important skill for any kind of frigate focusing on them.

culo duro The Bootcamp EveryoneVersusEveryone.com. 310	Posted - 2013.10.09 13:32:00 - [102] - Quote In my opinion you should add a completely different menu for rigs, as "Energy Weapon Rigging Level V" doesn't really contribute to Large Energy Turrets, it benefits the fitting setup and reduces the draw back on the rigs. Also e.g on a guardian for "Remote Armor Repairer V" you need Armor Rigging V, i think that's kinda silly since you'd never really use remote repaire augmentors on a guardian. Nor would you ever have Drone rigs on one, so having Drones Rigging V in there seems kinda silly, however i would totally agree with adding a seperate menu called "Rigging Skills" or similar. As for Targeting, i think you guys should split it into races (i'm using SISI info), because it seems wrong to me to tell a new player to Gravimetric, Ladar, and Magnetometric Sensor Compensation skills to fly a guardian, since it's an Amarr hull it should only list Radar. I really love that you guys are redoing the system, but if you want to use this "mastery" thing please do it ship specific, and not just an overall draft. It kinda ruins the purpose of trying to unlock these "masteries" if half of it doesn't have any relevance if i only fly Amarr/Gallente, i wouldn't need to train Caldari/Minmatar. I get the entire thing with that it's heavily specialized, but you shouldn't show it on ships, if half of it doesn't have relevance to the actual ship. Just like "Navigation V" Requires Micro Jump Drive Operation V on a cruiser. :P
Shinzhi Xadi Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 72	Posted - 2013.10.09 15:03:00 - [103] - Quote One requirement I don't like is all 4 drone specializations to 5 for master 5 As an AMARR player, (closet RPer), i will NOT use drones from other races, so why should any amarr player be forced to train other races drones?? Thats like requiring caldari pilots to train autocannons... its just silly.
Lina Theist Rosendal Research and Development 17	Posted - 2013.10.09 15:27:00 - [104] - Quote I think the mastery needs looking at. Why would freighters need rigging skills or microwarp drive skills? Do I as a nighthawk pilot really need lvl 5 in armor/skirmish warfare for lvl1? Why would I train ladar compensation skill when I fly gallente? Why do I need skills to lock 12 enemies in a dreadnought? Perhaps these certificates are not customized to every ship?
Harvey James Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State 536	Posted - 2013.10.09 16:12:00 - [105] - Quote CCP Ytterbium wrote: Unforgiven Storm wrote: Now we have those rare cases that are open to discussion and this is my opinion: RIGS in certificates: Looking at the targeting we see it only demand electronic rigs at level I starting at level III, then at IV demands rigs at level IV and V of course level V, I want to propose a middle ground that makes much more sense: Master Targetting IV should only request electronic rig at III because it makes more sense I ... III ... V than I ... IV ... V ----- the same rule should apply to all other certificated that demand rigs. Warfare Links in Certificates: Any ship not a command ship should only request basic warfare links from mastery 4 or 5 and only demand at 4 warfare links with specialist at level I, and V with specialist at level II Armor resistance phasing in the armor tanking certificate the same as I described in the rigs, It should not go from 1 to 4 to 5 but starting at mastery 3, but from 1 to 3 to 5, it makes more sense. Usually, level4 certificates allows the user to use tech2 items. And you need rig skill level at 4 to be able to tech2 rigs. Yes, we do realize tech2 rigs may not be super common but we wanted to keep a consistent system going there. that's a bit odd as T2 is meant to be specialist ships/modules so surely all T2 things in the game should require lv5 skills should it not????? Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name AB's need a buff-á like a big mass reduction ... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please.
Caldari 5 D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F. S.A.S Northern Associates. 103	Posted - 2013.10.10 01:38:00 - [106] - Quote Lina Theist wrote: Do I as a nighthawk pilot really need lvl 5 in armor/skirmish warfare for lvl1? Warfare Skills at 5 is in the pre-reqs for a Command Ship, so yes you need them. They are the base Leadership skills, not the ones that improve the specific links(which some people seem to think they are). Armored Warfare - 2% more Armor HP per level Seige Warfare - 2% more Shield HP per level Skirmish Warfare - 2% more Agility per level Information Warfare - 2% more targeting range per level Who wouldn't want 10% more Armor HP, Shield HP, Agility and Targeting range for their squad?
Rain6637 Team Evil 1718	Posted - 2013.10.10 03:11:00 - [107] - Quote Shinzhi Xadi wrote: One requirement I don't like is all 4 drone specializations to 5 for master 5 As an AMARR player, (closet RPer), i will NOT use drones from other races, so why should any amarr player be forced to train other races drones?? Thats like requiring caldari pilots to train autocannons... its just silly. racial drones have different damage types. I'm a Caldari close to RP'er and I trained drones, currently working on gunneries... so your assumption that weapon or damage type is tied to race is somewhat close-minded. and racist then again, Caldari are more permissive about bending the rules for the sake of one's achievement. Rainf1337 on Twitch

CCP RubberBAND CCP Engineering Corp CCP Engineering Alliance 241	Posted - 2013.10.10 15:20:00 - [108] - Quote Unforgiven Storm wrote: Also, anything about alliance build certificates? the system allows it? will that ever happen? We agree that this would be an amazing feature, unlikely however that it'll make it for Rubicon. It's definitely something on our radar though and something the whole team is pushing for. Feel free to poke me on: Twitter

Michael Harari Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED 686	Posted - 2013.10.10 15:25:00 - [109] - Quote Shinzhi Xadi wrote: One requirement I don't like is all 4 drone specializations to 5 for master 5 As an AMARR player, (closet RPer), i will NOT use drones from other races, so why should any amarr player be forced to train other races drones?? Thats like requiring caldari pilots to train autocannons... its just silly. Nobody is requiring you to do anything.
grrlet Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 30	Posted - 2013.10.11 04:10:00 - [110] - Quote Not exactly sure this is the place for it, but its certificate related Why on earth, do the shuttles require you to train Micro Jump Drive Operation, and Astronautics Rigging to achieve rank IV?? And Amarr ships require you to train the sensor strength upgrades for other races to get a higher rank?? It is soooo confusing & misleading. If they're going to be linked to the ships using these ranks, then it should be tailored for the ships. Otherwise leave it ambiguous like it was before. "this group helps this ship". Not "YOU WILL BE RANK IV!!! (granted, were making you train things that have nothing to do with this ship).

Sarah Stallman Pen2 Logistics 12	Posted - 2013.10.11 04:37:00 - [111] - Quote Every ship in the game currently require those. Freighters require afterburners and MWD. There's a number of silly things in there now. That's why it's on SiSi this early, I bet.
Quintessen Messengers of Judah Socius Inter Nos 209	Posted - 2013.10.11 14:10:00 - [112] - Quote Might I suggest that some of the certificates be separated into passive bonuses and active bonuses where appropriate -- in this case navigation. How about Navigation and Propulsion certificates. Navigation covers all passive skills and Propulsion covers all prop mods. You still have the question about things like fuel conservation and Micro Jump Drive. Part of the problem is that, ironically, there are too few skills per thing you're trying to max out. Jump Drives have one or two skills and only relevant to the few ships that can equip jump drives. Perhaps we should break down the different forms of propulsion mods into their own certificates. Simple Navigation AB + MWD Navigation MJD Navigation Jump Drive Navigation You would basically be taking the drones approach to Navigation certificates. This could also work.
Helothane Ascendent. Test Alliance Please Ignore 34	Posted - 2013.10.11 14:35:00 - [113] - Quote I understand why you might want to have Weapon Upgrades and Advanced Weapon Upgrades under Core Ship Operation - the vast majority of the ships use weapons. Some ships that you wouldn't normally think to arm, like Logistics, even have turret slots. However, I don't see needing WU and AWU as required to master a ship that does not normally benefit from those skills when used as intended. WU and AWU do nothing for fitting remote reppers, tractor beams, strip miners and the like. Perhaps move WU and AWU to the turret and missile certificates?
Omnathious Deninard Novis Initiis 1677	Posted - 2013.10.11 16:05:00 - [114] - Quote I still don't feel that taking any rigging skills to level 5 should be required to get to mastery level on the certs it just seems beyond overkill. Also, have you considered creating 4 groups for the targeting cert, one for each compensation group, rather than lump all sensor compensation skills into one? Novis Initiis is Recruting-á --á Ideas for Drone Improvement
Monetta Hark Hark Nominees Besloten Vennootschap 2	Posted - 2013.10.11 16:06:00 - [115] - Quote The "Target Painting" certificate at level 3 and above requires the "Electronic Superiority Rigging" skill, but there are no rigs which affect target painters

CCP Ytterbium C C P C C P Alliance 2812	Posted - 2013.10.11 17:50:00 - [116] - Quote Update: All rigs skills have been removed from Certificates / Masteries as they were more cluttering them than anything else. Advanced Target Management has been removed from the "Target Management" Certificate and moved into its own Certificate, named "Advanced Target Management". Carriers, Marauders, Logistic Cruisers and Combat Recon ships need this Certificate as part of their Masteries since they can lock more than 7 targets. All other ships in-game don't need it anymore. The "Target Management" Certificate has been split in 4, one version for each race variant. Each version has a different "Sensor Compensation" skill not to make players train irrelevant Sensor Compensation skills on specific hulls (ex: to avoid the user to train Gravimetric skill on an Amarr ship). Warfare Link Certificate has been moved from Mastery level 1 to 5 for Battlecruisers, Carriers, Supercarriers, Titans, Ore Industrial Ship. Moved from level 1 to 3 for the Ore Capital Industrial Ship. We acknowledge Warfare Links are not critical when flying those hulls at the first Mastery levels. However, Warfare Links are still required at level 1 Mastery for Command Ships. Salvaging Certificate has been removed from Marauders. Salvaging has been moved from Mastery level 1 to 5 for all Tech1 exploration frigates (Magnate, Heron, Imicus, Probe). Salvaging is part of the ship bonuses but not that important at low Mastery levels. Jump Drive Calibration skill slipped our grasp and has been added to the Capital Navigation Certificate. It's required at level 4 for Master level4, and 5 for Mastery level 5. Navigation Certificate has been split in two: one with the Micro Jump Drive Operation skill (assigned to all battleship variations) and another one without, assigned to all the other ships (except Jump Drive capable ships, like capitals). Black Ops and Jump Freighters now have the Capital Navigation Certificate. Black Ops both require Battleship Navigation and Capital Navigation since they are capable to fit both sub-capital propulsion modules (AB, MWD, MJD) and have a Jump Drive. Those changes will most likely be visible on Singularity around the middle of next week.

Rain6637 Team Evil 1742	Posted - 2013.10.11 19:36:00 - [117] - Quote CCP Ytterbium wrote: Update: [list] All rigs skills have been removed from Certificates / Masteries as they were more cluttering them than anything else. thank... yes Rainf1337 on Twitch
Mioelnir Cataclysm Enterprises Easily Offended 128	Posted - 2013.10.11 20:50:00 - [118] - Quote CCP Ytterbium wrote: Warfare Link Certificate has been moved from Mastery level 1 to 5 for Battlecruisers, Carriers, Supercarriers, Titans, Ore Industrial Ship. Moved from level 1 to 3 for the Ore Capital Industrial Ship. We acknowledge Warfare Links are not critical when flying those hulls at the first Mastery levels. However, Warfare Links are still required at level 1 Mastery for Command Ships. Since the Rorqual is the ship with the most powerful mining boni in the game, I expected it to require mining links earlier than at 5. While it is frequently used for POS combat placements and other creative uses, the two primary roles are in my mind: Bonus ship Ore compressor At a mastery of 3, which I see as a still unpolished but fundamentally complete day to day skillset you are not made fun of for; I would expect the pilot to be able to slap some t1 mining links on there. Full t2 with mindlink at 4, as a solid polished skillset and 5 for clone vat bay and such things.
Katherine Raven ALTA Industries Intergalactic Conservation Movement 13	Posted - 2013.10.11 20:51:00 - [119] - Quote CCP Ytterbium wrote: stuff Awesome, I think that pretty much covered everything I didn't like. I'll try to pick through it with a fine toothed comb and see if I can dig up any other suggestions.
Minerus Maximus 55	Posted - 2013.10.11 21:40:00 - [120] - Quote CCP Ytterbium wrote: Update: You did not say anything about ships without slots (like shuttle and freighter). Whether they will have skills Afterburner, Fuel Conservation, Acceleration Control and High Speed Maneuvering in Navigation certs of Mastery levels? These skills are useless for these ships.



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