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Djakku
Pod Liberation Authority
HYDRA RELOADED
11
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Posted - 2011.11.03 20:49:00 -
[61] - Quote
Hungry Eyes wrote:just saying, this cruiser is capable of numbers like 670dps while omnitanking 900dps, for example. it is the gold standard in PVE, and there isnt really a reason to fly anything else (at cruiser/BC level). Tengu is the go-to PVE boat, and people dont have a reason to use anything else.
should it be this way?
Those stats you mentioned are less than a Battleship, why do you think the Tengu needs a nerf again?
The ship is fine, it's a T3, it's supposed to be good, don't forget a lot of T3's are pimped, if anything needs changing the skill requirements should be greater (if you consider how much training is required for command ships and thier performance compared to a T3) |
Heimdallofasgard
APEX ARDENT COALITION
NEM3SIS.
26
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Posted - 2011.11.03 20:52:00 -
[62] - Quote
Katrina Oniseki wrote:Widemouth Deepthroat wrote:Nerf 100mn AB Tengu!! Isk shouldn't buy you such an advantage over other players!! Let's just remove ISK too then! Yay! ... idiot.
Successful troll is successful
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Nyla Skin
Pew Pew Corp
Behold.
32
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Posted - 2011.11.04 11:04:00 -
[63] - Quote
Trainwreck McGee wrote:BUFF LOKI
Yea, lets make minmatar the best in this category too  |
Tanya Powers
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
116
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Posted - 2011.11.04 12:04:00 -
[64] - Quote
Djakku wrote:Hungry Eyes wrote:just saying, this cruiser is capable of numbers like 670dps while omnitanking 900dps, for example. it is the gold standard in PVE, and there isnt really a reason to fly anything else (at cruiser/BC level). Tengu is the go-to PVE boat, and people dont have a reason to use anything else.
should it be this way? Those stats you mentioned are less than a Battleship, why do you think the Tengu needs a nerf again? The ship is fine, it's a T3, it's supposed to be good, don't forget a lot of T3's are pimped, if anything needs changing the skill requirements should be greater (if you consider how much training is required for command ships and thier performance compared to a T3)
This tbh, T3's should have crap command subs and not be has right now better than Command ships you need a lot more training to get in to.
Also: make those dam bonus on grid only, bring Command ships on the field and the choice of taking those down a real strategie instead of improbable T3's 80AU from the battlefield or hugging the pos playing poker ... |
Dado Prso
Lock Stock and Smoking Barrels.
0
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Posted - 2011.11.04 12:10:00 -
[65] - Quote
legion needs nuet range bonus |
Bomberlocks
CTRL-Q
31
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Posted - 2011.11.04 12:12:00 -
[66] - Quote
I think Buffy needs buffing. |
Cpt Greagor
Liquid Relief
38
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Posted - 2011.11.04 12:16:00 -
[67] - Quote
Yes it should, leave it alone. Go complain about SC's more. Tengus are fine. Shoo. |
Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
115
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Posted - 2011.11.04 12:20:00 -
[68] - Quote
Hungry Eyes wrote:wish other T3's were capable of even remotely similar numbers in PVE.
Fixed it for you, sadly it doesn't "just" apply to the caring part of Eve but as far as I am concerned it has nothing to do with the ship and everything to do with HML.
Cut HML range by 25% and they will be balanced with gun options.
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Jack Tronic
borkedLabs
8
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Posted - 2011.11.04 12:37:00 -
[69] - Quote
Widemouth Deepthroat wrote:Nerf 100mn AB Tengu!! Isk shouldn't buy you such an advantage over other players!!
Yo bro, I heard you can web them so they get ******. Neuts also **** them. LEARN TO PLAY.
You are like all the other whiners who cry in local because a nano gang won't brawl at zero with 40 abaddons.
Quote:
This tbh, T3's should have crap command subs and not be has right now better than Command ships you need a lot more training to get in to.
The thing with the command T3s, they usually have absolutely no tank and no dps whatsoever. They need co-processors wasitng their slots just to fit everything. |
Jerick Ludhowe
Shadow Legion Industries
Dark Phoenix Rising.
15
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Posted - 2011.11.04 12:41:00 -
[70] - Quote
why do t1 and t3 ships have 3 rigs and t2 have 2? |
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Cpt Fina
The Tuskers
71
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Posted - 2011.11.04 12:46:00 -
[71] - Quote
Jerick Ludhowe wrote:why do t1 and t3 ships have 3 rigs and t2 have 2?
Good question.
Also, why did CCP not want to make T2 ships (marauders black ops etc) SOLOWTFPWN-mobiles when that rule isn't applied to T3-cruisers? |
Lord Ryan
True Xero
76
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Posted - 2011.11.04 13:05:00 -
[72] - Quote
Did not read every post, but i have to say it! I'm tired of all these nerf this cause it works threads. If one ship/gun works and ten other don't, maybe you should fix the other ten. Not sure why so many pilot want evey ship to preform like a rookie ship. If you want a rookie ship, fly a rookie ship. Or are you mad you don't have the SP to fly Mach, Dram,Tengu or whatever. I just think the topic header for these threads should be, "Nerf it cause I can't fly it".
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=29043&find=unread
I want to fly a badass Mon Calamari stlye-ácruiser painted to match my Tron clothes. |
kyrv
Love Me Dead
ISKoholics Center of Rehabilitation
0
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Posted - 2011.11.04 13:09:00 -
[73] - Quote
I've kept the Tengu and lost the loki, loki needs just.. more |
stoicfaux
349
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Posted - 2011.11.04 13:30:00 -
[74] - Quote
If you want to nerf the PvE Tengu, then drop the 10% missile velocity bonus. That would drop HML range down to ~70km. Then nerf HML range down to ~50km (increase speed, reduce flight time of heavy missiles.)
It would still be better than the other PvE T3 configs, but not as blatantly.
Tinfoil. It should be at the top of everyone's food pyramid.
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Lord Ryan
True Xero
76
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Posted - 2011.11.04 13:46:00 -
[75] - Quote
Mystical Might wrote:I see This chain occuring;
Nerf the Tengu!!
Ohno, Now Loki is OP. Nerf the Loki!!
Ohno, Now the Legion is OP, Nerf the Legion !!!
Ohno, Now the Proteus is OP, Nerf the Proteus!!
Ohno, Now the Tengu is OP, Nerf the Tengu!!
Just imagine it repeated down the page.
OR, you can accept that different ships are good at different things and move on?
Or fly a different ship.
+1
-á"Nerf it cause I can't fly it".
I want to fly a badass Mon Calamari stlye-ácruiser painted to match my Tron clothes. |
BearJews
The Activity
2
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Posted - 2011.11.04 13:49:00 -
[76] - Quote
Tengu is fine, if you want buff the other ships, but they do a excel in other areas that the tengu NEver will. Loki with webs, proteus cloaky, legion with massive buffer and hams. Yeah tengu is easy to fly i'll give you guys that. Maybe training should be harder, but it does take forever to get your missile skills up to par with a faction battleship for pve and the faction battleships are still better than the tengu is if you do your mission right.
whoever said 700 dps with a monster tank is just full of **** unless he's dropping over 3bil on a pve tengu which is just an utter waste of money.
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Jerick Ludhowe
Shadow Legion Industries
Dark Phoenix Rising.
15
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Posted - 2011.11.04 13:58:00 -
[77] - Quote
Cpt Fina wrote:
Good question.
Also, why did CCP not want to make T2 ships (marauders black ops etc) SOLOWTFPWN-mobiles when that rule isn't applied to T3-cruisers?
Another good question!
Aslo, why do field command ships have nerfed t2 resists where fleet commands don't?
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Frieg Vostroyan
The League of Extraordinary Spaceballs
0
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Posted - 2011.11.04 14:07:00 -
[78] - Quote
The problem with the tengu is that it can so easily fit larger class tank mods. My WH tengu had 500+ dps, and 1900 dps omni tank, stable at 50% for 1.5 bil isk. That should really be possible for a cruiser or , it should be possible for all the T3s. Maybe the tengu just needs a cpu nerf so it can't fit both tank and gank.
Fit was something like....
5 T2 HM launchers
gist b extra larger shield booster
2 T2 shield boost amps
3 T2 hardeners
3 caldari navy BCUs
2 T2 cap relays.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
1171
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Posted - 2011.11.04 14:24:00 -
[79] - Quote
Jerick Ludhowe wrote:why do t1 and t3 ships have 3 rigs and t2 have 2? Because T2 ships are specialised on one task and giving them too many rig slots would let them somewhat break out of that specialisation.
GÇöGÇöGÇö
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
GÇö Karath Piki-á |
Goose99
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
116
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Posted - 2011.11.04 14:26:00 -
[80] - Quote
Balance for pvp, not pve. Tengu is a glorified overpriced drake in pvp. /thread |
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Jerick Ludhowe
Shadow Legion Industries
Dark Phoenix Rising.
15
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Posted - 2011.11.04 14:28:00 -
[81] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Jerick Ludhowe wrote:why do t1 and t3 ships have 3 rigs and t2 have 2? Because T2 ships are specialised on one task and giving them too many rig slots would let them somewhat break out of that specialisation.
I call pure and utter BS. 1 more rig slot is not going to allow a ship to "break out" of it's specialization.... How did you even come to this conclusion other than "quoting" what ccp said years ago when they introduced rigs.
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Hungry Eyes
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
46
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Posted - 2011.11.04 14:30:00 -
[82] - Quote
Djakku wrote:Hungry Eyes wrote:just saying, this cruiser is capable of numbers like 670dps while omnitanking 900dps, for example. it is the gold standard in PVE, and there isnt really a reason to fly anything else (at cruiser/BC level). Tengu is the go-to PVE boat, and people dont have a reason to use anything else.
should it be this way? Those stats you mentioned are less than a Battleship, why do you think the Tengu needs a nerf again? The ship is fine, it's a T3, it's supposed to be good, don't forget a lot of T3's are pimped, if anything needs changing the skill requirements should be greater (if you consider how much training is required for command ships and thier performance compared to a T3)
because those numbers are godly for a cruiser, even if it's T3. no other T3 cruiser can achieve such high dps at virtually unlimited range. |
Hungry Eyes
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
46
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Posted - 2011.11.04 14:34:00 -
[83] - Quote
Lord Ryan wrote:Mystical Might wrote:I see This chain occuring;
Nerf the Tengu!!
Ohno, Now Loki is OP. Nerf the Loki!!
Ohno, Now the Legion is OP, Nerf the Legion !!!
Ohno, Now the Proteus is OP, Nerf the Proteus!!
Ohno, Now the Tengu is OP, Nerf the Tengu!!
Just imagine it repeated down the page.
OR, you can accept that different ships are good at different things and move on?
Or fly a different ship. +1
basically my whole point is, T3 ships are not in line. not even close. the Tengu is TOO GOOD at raping and pillaging everything PVE, and hands down the best cruiser in the game in PVP in pretty much any situation. with very high SP and faction gear of course. so there is little reason to fly anything else. |
Elistea
Seedless Inc
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
2
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Posted - 2011.11.04 14:40:00 -
[84] - Quote
Both Tengu and Loki are no doubt prime candidates in pve/pvp when we look at T3 cruisers.
However nefing them would be contraproductive. Instead of that lets look a bit on other 2 T3s.
Legion is definitely a bit behind (only real use in incursions,mby some gatecamps)
Active tanked its not bad for PVE, however if u want to do PVP buffer-tank fit, it gets terribly slow and any other T3 easyly outkites it.
I think small speed/agility boost would help a lot here.
Proteus is definitely least used one. I dont have Xperience flying it but i hope it gets better after hybrid/T2 ammo boosts. |
Buzzmong
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
5
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Posted - 2011.11.04 15:08:00 -
[85] - Quote
I don't fly T3's, so I'm not going to state if individual ships should be nerfed/buffed but looking at the stats, how they're used and their popularity, there's obviously some disparity.
From what I understand the general design rule was that T2 are specialised vessels (ie, things like the Diemost getting near BS level dps) which excel at one defined role while the T3's were meant to be not quite as good as a T2 at a specific role but retain much more flexibility and can do many roles.
Currently the other T3's don't seem to eclipse the T2 cruiser line up but it does seem as if the Tengu simply dicks over any of the T2 cruiser line up with regards to PVE (and possibly, over quite a few in PvP) and not only that, it also does seem to be better than the classes that are bigger than it (BC/BS) at their roles.
If the other T3's don't completely nullify their T2 (or T1) counterparts but the Tengu does, then it's not wrong to logically assume that the other 3 are relatively balanced on the entire shipscape and that the Tengu needs looking at to bring it in line.
Thing is as I don't fly it, I dunno if it's because of the ship itself, the weapons, or the bonuses to the weapons that make it seem to stand head and shoulders above the rest. |
Naomi Knight
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
19
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Posted - 2011.11.04 16:29:00 -
[86] - Quote
hml buffer fit , yeah too good , other fits sux , so only nerf if those get a boost to be usefull |
oldmanst4r
oldmanst4r's Corporation
20
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Posted - 2011.11.04 16:30:00 -
[87] - Quote
Hey the tengu is good no doubt about that. Solo it's a good exploration and great mission ship and in gangs it turns WHs into easy mode.
BUT...who cares if a (pimped) t3 cruiser can match a faction battleship in lvl 4 efficiency. (lol lvl4s) Solo exploration it's good but not uber by a long shot. WHs, I'll grant you, tengus excel at, but that's the only area where imo they beat a lot of other ships hands down. That's mainly because they combine ease of use, low barrier to entry, and relatively high efficiency. (sort of like a drake lol)
PvP...I've never actually flown a tengu in pvp solo because I just don't have that kind of cash to throw around. But from the ones I've fought and killed and been killed by, I can say that the amount of pimping you need to put into a tengu to solo pvp in an uber way is ridiculous. And recons will screw you over.
Overall, I'm far more in favor of buffing the other t3s up to tengu performance level. Tbh, I think if you nerf the tengu in any significant way it will suck totally and people will stop flying it overnight. |
Tore Smith
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2011.11.04 16:41:00 -
[88] - Quote
Hungry Eyes wrote:just saying, this cruiser is capable of numbers like 670dps while omnitanking 900dps, for example. it is the gold standard in PVE, and there isnt really a reason to fly anything else (at cruiser/BC level). Tengu is the go-to PVE boat, and people dont have a reason to use anything else.
should it be this way?
it surly is a very good pve boat compared to the other t3, but honestly if you only fly tengu, you dont know what nightmare, paladin, cnr, golem, mach, vargur, absolution, sleipnir, hell even domi, vindi and kronos are capable of. |
Naomi Knight
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
19
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Posted - 2011.11.04 16:42:00 -
[89] - Quote
Tore Smith wrote:Hungry Eyes wrote:just saying, this cruiser is capable of numbers like 670dps while omnitanking 900dps, for example. it is the gold standard in PVE, and there isnt really a reason to fly anything else (at cruiser/BC level). Tengu is the go-to PVE boat, and people dont have a reason to use anything else.
should it be this way? it surly is a very good pve boat compared to the other t3, but honestly if you only fly tengu, you dont know what nightmare, paladin, cnr, golem, mach, vargur, absolution, sleipnir, hell even domi, vindi and kronos are capable of.
vargur is the best muhaha consider subcaps only |
Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2011.11.04 16:47:00 -
[90] - Quote
Jita Alt666 wrote:Tippia wrote:Jita Alt666 wrote:Malcanis wrote:What does it matter which ship is best for PvE? Yes. The paper scissors rock balance should apply to specific pve uses as well as pvp. The problem is that in in PvE, there is no paper or scissors, and the Tengu just happens to be granite compared to the Legion's sandstone. By rock paper scissors pve I mean: Tengu: Best in Caldari space. Terrible in Gallente space. Below average in Minmatar space. Above average in Amarr space Loki: Bestt in Minmatar space. Terrible in Amarr space. Above average in Gallente Space. Below average in Caldari space Proetues: Best in Gallente Space. Terrible in Caldari Space. Above average in Minmatar space. Below average in Amarr space Legion: Best in Amarr space. Terrible in Minmatar space. Above average in Caldari space. below Average in Gallente space. Yes I know that doesn't really happen - but it I like the idea.
the only reason why tengu is op in pve is its ridiculous damage projection. if all other strategic cruisers somehow magically got all their optimals and falloffs doubled, tengu would be outclassed by pretty much all three. |
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