wish other T3's were capable of even remotely similar numbers in PVE.

should it be this way?

Then that should be the title of your thread.

Nah it's fine.

just saying, this cruiser is capable of numbers like 670dps while omnitanking 900dps, for example. it is the gold standard in PVE, and there isnt really a reason to fly anything else (at cruiser/BC level). Tengu is the go-to PVE boat, and people dont have a reason to use anything else.

should it be this way?

Don't nerf the Tengu.

Buff the Loki.

If anything nerf that we loose skills when getting blown to bits in the T3's.

What does it matter which ship is best for PvE?

Go on love, tell us the reasoning behind this view?

the same dumb threads over again and over again like afk cloaky and tengu nerfs threads

wish other T3's were capable of even remotely similar numbers in PVE.

The Tengu is only better/Equal to a Golem/Mach etc if you plug a fairly expensive amount of implants into it for missile damage.

Yes. The paper scissors rock balance should apply to specific pve uses as well as pvp.

Tengu is fine, loki is fine, buff the legion.

And proteus?

And proteus? Personally I think proteus' tank is fine but failguns are not.

Tengu is a cruiser, Golem/Mach are battleships.



You expect a cruiser to be more powerful than a battleship?


Plus Tengu is overpowered compared to the other 3 t3 cruisers. Easy way to tell is most people use them and if anyone asks it's always the Tengu is the best.



So hell yeah it's overpowered. Although I doubt the Tengu pilots would agree because it suits their purpose not to.

The thing you have to remember about the tengu is that its projected maximum DPS only comes from using kinetic missiles. Switch to any other damage type and it loses about 150 dps (more around 200 if it's a HAM tengu).

Can someone link the fit OP is talking about? I can't seem to find it....
I only find 670 tank 630 dps and 945 tank 277 dps.

Edit: Found it. the Germans had the answer.

Nerf 100mn AB Tengu!! Isk shouldn't buy you such an advantage over other players!!

The loki is better at PvP than the Tengu, no need for it to get buffed.

well yeah it's massively expensive and you lose skills if it dies, I think the power is justified

Tengu IS versatile and a very good ship for pve/pvp, all others don't, that's why they should be buffed at Tengu level.

well yeah it's massively expensive and you lose skills if it dies, I think the power is justified

Nerf 100mn AB Tengu!! Isk shouldn't buy you such an advantage over other players!!

I see This chain occuring;


Nerf the Tengu!!
Ohno, Now Loki is OP. Nerf the Loki!!
Ohno, Now the Legion is OP, Nerf the Legion !!!
Ohno, Now the Proteus is OP, Nerf the Proteus!!
Ohno, Now the Tengu is OP, Nerf the Tengu!!

Just imagine it repeated down the page.
OR, you can accept that different ships are good at different things and move on?
Or fly a different ship.

Even though you're a dirty -10 to me, I agree with you, you naughty little red.

Much Love, Silly Little Orange.

Oh, please touch me. Touch me all over with your autocannons!

The problem is that in in PvE, there is no paper or scissors, and the Tengu just happens to be granite compared to the Legion's sandstone.

the same dumb threads over again and over again like afk cloaky and tengu nerfs threads

Tengu is fine, the problem is all other T3's are just good for specific role or maybe 2 while they're supposed to be VERSATILE.

Tengu IS versatile and a very good ship for pve/pvp, all others don't, that's why they should be buffed at Tengu level.

im speaking about PVE strictly. there's no reason to fly another cruiser hull in PVE.

just saying, this cruiser is capable of numbers like 670dps while omnitanking 900dps, for example. it is the gold standard in PVE, and there isnt really a reason to fly anything else (at cruiser/BC level). Tengu is the go-to PVE boat, and people dont have a reason to use anything else.

should it be this way?

Let's just remove ISK too then!

Yay!

... idiot.

BUFF LOKI

Those stats you mentioned are less than a Battleship, why do you think the Tengu needs a nerf again?

The ship is fine, it's a T3, it's supposed to be good, don't forget a lot of T3's are pimped, if anything needs changing the skill requirements should be greater (if you consider how much training is required for command ships and thier performance compared to a T3)

wish other T3's were capable of even remotely similar numbers in PVE.

Nerf 100mn AB Tengu!! Isk shouldn't buy you such an advantage over other players!!

This tbh, T3's should have crap command subs and not be has right now better than Command ships you need a lot more training to get in to.

why do t1 and t3 ships have 3 rigs and t2 have 2?

I see This chain occuring;


Nerf the Tengu!!
Ohno, Now Loki is OP. Nerf the Loki!!
Ohno, Now the Legion is OP, Nerf the Legion !!!
Ohno, Now the Proteus is OP, Nerf the Proteus!!
Ohno, Now the Tengu is OP, Nerf the Tengu!!

Just imagine it repeated down the page.
OR, you can accept that different ships are good at different things and move on?
Or fly a different ship.

Good question.

Also, why did CCP not want to make T2 ships (marauders black ops etc) SOLOWTFPWN-mobiles when that rule isn't applied to T3-cruisers?

why do t1 and t3 ships have 3 rigs and t2 have 2?

Because T2 ships are specialised on one task and giving them too many rig slots would let them somewhat break out of that specialisation.

Those stats you mentioned are less than a Battleship, why do you think the Tengu needs a nerf again?

The ship is fine, it's a T3, it's supposed to be good, don't forget a lot of T3's are pimped, if anything needs changing the skill requirements should be greater (if you consider how much training is required for command ships and thier performance compared to a T3)

+1

just saying, this cruiser is capable of numbers like 670dps while omnitanking 900dps, for example. it is the gold standard in PVE, and there isnt really a reason to fly anything else (at cruiser/BC level). Tengu is the go-to PVE boat, and people dont have a reason to use anything else.

should it be this way?

it surly is a very good pve boat compared to the other t3, but honestly if you only fly tengu, you dont know what nightmare, paladin, cnr, golem, mach, vargur, absolution, sleipnir, hell even domi, vindi and kronos are capable of.

By rock paper scissors pve I mean:
Tengu: Best in Caldari space. Terrible in Gallente space. Below average in Minmatar space. Above average in Amarr space
Loki: Bestt in Minmatar space. Terrible in Amarr space. Above average in Gallente Space. Below average in Caldari space
Proetues: Best in Gallente Space. Terrible in Caldari Space. Above average in Minmatar space. Below average in Amarr space
Legion: Best in Amarr space. Terrible in Minmatar space. Above average in Caldari space. below Average in Gallente space.

Yes I know that doesn't really happen - but it I like the idea.

OP Doesn't know WTF he's talking about!

My 1100dps Nightmare would **** on your Tengu for pretty much every L4. Even against annoying Angels!

<...>
should it be this way?

Tengu is just a regular strategic cruiser in any aspect, xept DPS projection.

Exellent DPS projection makes it (as well as it makes Drake the best BC) best SC.


IMO heavy missiles is the problem. Not Tengu/Drake itself.

basically my whole point is, T3 ships are not in line. not even close. the Tengu is TOO GOOD at raping and pillaging everything PVE, and hands down the best cruiser in the game in PVP in pretty much any situation. with very high SP and faction gear of course. a perfectly flown and fit Tengu laughs at Machariels even. so there is little reason to fly anything else.

Tengus aren't that great vs EM weak rats, in that case their DPS is less than a Loki's - let alone battlehips with EM type ammo.
Also the fact that you lose SP for being ganked doesn't make it exactly a riskless business flying one.
In PvP they sacrifice significant DPS for survivability. It-¦s not all that `Iwin`.

I do admit it-¦s the most versatile T3 hands down. But we have the best ship for everything. Should we nerf the Rifter too? Or the Rupture? The Thrasher? The Omen? The Iteron V? The Nyx? Just because they're the best in their class?

you sound like a moron. who the hell is talking about L4's and battleships?

well for one your shitpost wasn't specific on the pve content, so assuming l4s are part of your "problem" wasn't so far fetched for him. so only if you're talking whs the tengu shines. but even there you have better options if you're not alone. is there any real argument up your sleeve?

No...

The Omen? THE OMEN? Best in his class? I really hope you meant another ship.

Also, why did CCP not want to make T2 ships (marauders black ops etc) SOLOWTFPWN-mobiles when that rule isn't applied to T3-cruisers?

Legion, Theres something wrong with it but cant quite put my finger on it.

Tengu is fine, the problem is all other T3's are just good for specific role or maybe 2 while they're supposed to be VERSATILE.

Tengu IS versatile and a very good ship for pve/pvp, all others don't, that's why they should be buffed at Tengu level.

Don't nerf the Tengu.

Buff the Loki.

If you want to nerf the PvE Tengu, then drop the 10% missile velocity bonus. That would drop HML range down to ~70km. Then nerf HML range down to ~50km (increase speed, reduce flight time of heavy missiles.)

It would still be better than the other PvE T3 configs, but not as blatantly.

Actually, that holds true for the Tengu as well - it just happen to have roles that YOU value.

The other T3's are in need of sub tweaks to be that effective and worth flying for both fields has Tengu can, hell I'd love to see a lot more of those being flown and doing pvp has I'd love to try lvl4's with my Proteus or Loki and have that much fun I can with the Tengu.

Taking away HM range won't help the Proteus or Loki become competitive mission boats.

who says that T3s are supposed to do well in missions?

I dont think its the ship itself that needs a nerf. Heavy Missiles however do. There damage is too high for there range which renders HAMs useless and gives them an advantage over other weapon systems.

HMs need a range OR damage nerf.

I dont think its the ship itself that needs a nerf. Heavy Missiles however do. There damage is too high for there range which renders HAMs useless and gives them an advantage over other weapon systems.

HMs need a range OR damage nerf.

Taking away HM range won't help the Proteus or Loki become competitive mission boats.

Having T3s out performed by T2s is dumb.

the title is: tengu needs nerf (to be brought down to par with the rest of T3's) . easier to nerf one ship than to buff 3.

Cut this flight time and will not change the proteus or loki has you say but will definitively change the tengu or drake and bring them on pair with med weapon systems range of fight.

just saying, this cruiser is capable of numbers like 670dps while omnitanking 900dps, for example. it is the gold standard in PVE, and there isnt really a reason to fly anything else (at cruiser/BC level). Tengu is the go-to PVE boat, and people dont have a reason to use anything else.

should it be this way?

670 dps is the gold standard for PVE?

If there's something the Tengu does not better than Cerberus is push the same dps at the same distance, now you see what I did here?

just saying, this cruiser is capable of numbers like 670dps while omnitanking 900dps, for example. it is the gold standard in PVE, and there isnt really a reason to fly anything else (at cruiser/BC level). Tengu is the go-to PVE boat, and people dont have a reason to use anything else.

should it be this way?

He's probably flying gallente and using hybrids, everything else can do from 1k to almost 2 (gimp fits), so no, Tengu is not overpowered.

The missile Tengu (Mengu) might need a nerf, but the Hybrid subsystem need a tiny buff, the damage bonus should be increased from 5% to 7,5%, to make it almost (but not really) as damagedealing as Proteus.

I feel the need to add:

If you're comparing tengu PVE vs any gun ship PVE take into consideration that just about every BS rat has defender missiles. At least every other volley if not every volley is down a missile by default.

What i've learned here:

When arguing for buffs, compare everything to projectiles.
When arguing for nerfs, compare everything to hybrids.

The latter is now even more potent since it's a moving goal-post.

actually, no. heavy missiles are a category of their own. you should not be able to project such high dps over such a huge range, and never miss. this is not too hard to grasp.

actually, no. heavy missiles are a category of their own. you should not be able to project such high dps over such a huge range, and never miss. this is not too hard to grasp.

"High dps?" Missiles?

Btw, ever heard of exp radius and exp velocity? Guns have one dmg mitigating factor - tracking, handled by mod. Missiles have 2, handled by 2 different rigs.

HML 100MB AB Tengus are beasts and can handle anything. it is a stupid, unbalanced ship. the cookie cutter setup is out and everyone's grandma is using one.

with all due respect, i didnt start this thread to be educated about missiles and Tengus. i know how they work. ive been on both ends of the relationship many times. that being said, HM's will wear down your inty/AF in 30-ish seconds or so. speed tanking goes a long way in reducing damage, but you cannot outrun missiles like you used to be able to.

I feel the need to add:

If you're comparing tengu PVE vs any gun ship PVE take into consideration that just about every BS rat has defender missiles. At least every other volley if not every volley is down a missile by default.

The proper fix is to restrict ships ability to mount larger sized prop mods.

Another one not understanding how radial, transversal and sign affects lasers/projectiles/hybrids.

Missiles are fine, the defenders sent by rats are nothing compared to transversal/radial effects on other weapon system.

If you really complain about that...omg.

The Machariel moves faster, tanks more and deals more damage.

Why should a T3 using hyper advanced ancient alien technology be inferior to a plain ol bland pirate ship, and then still be nerfed? You're kidding right?

why is it that the Tengu can faceroll through any pvp and pve situation without any risk whatsoever?

why is it that the Tengu can faceroll through any pvp and pve situation without any risk whatsoever?

Actually your 100MN AB top predator, and only one, is actually Loki with web bonus.

It's because you're black.

Well, this looks better than a tengu imo. But then again, I've never flown a SC and I probably never will. They're not that great. At least not compared to the cost.

They have some nice advantages, but overall I feel the t2 ships are better pve ships in addition to being more cost effective. I guess they're good for wormhole exploration. But for incusions I really feel that command ships and marauders have way more to offer. Same goes for missions.

I wanna be black too. Winmatar wins. Black > French