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Samroski
Games Inc. The Night Crew Alliance
308
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 14:39:00 -
[121] - Quote
MestariBation wrote:CCP only helps rich countries like Japan. CCP helped Pakistan and Haiti, both far from rich.
How does a PLEX drive impact the PLEX market? Maybe CCP are wary of introducing a drive with PLEX riding high?
Any colour you like. |

Rhivre
TarNec Invisible Exchequer
561
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 15:39:00 -
[122] - Quote
I can see why a drive would impact the market, but they should then allow for the funds being already held to be donated. |

Octoven
Phoenix Productions Headshot Gaming
260
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 16:08:00 -
[123] - Quote
If you are worried about supply, CCP has loads of confiscated PLEXs that they have never been shy to release when need be. Perhaps the CCP character responsible for collecting PLEXs could instead sell those for people who wish to donate? |

Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
4634
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 16:30:00 -
[124] - Quote
At a certain point CCP opened to direct ISK charity transters. In that case they'd do very good for the game, because the charity drive would not stress PLEXes but would act as much needed ISK sink. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |

RAW23
490
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 16:36:00 -
[125] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:At a certain point CCP opened to direct ISK charity transters. In that case they'd do very good for the game, because the charity drive would not stress PLEXes but would act as much needed ISK sink.
I don't see this happening. Destroying PLEX by taking them out of the game and converting them back into cash removes a liability for CCP (game time tokens) that has already been paid for by someone. All they are doing in this case is reversing the transaction, which is ultimately either cost-neutral or low in cost for them. Isk, on the other hand, is something that no one has paid them for and that is not a real life financial liability for them. Accepting isk donations that are not converted into PLEX will have a much higher real life cost for CCP.
If something stops CCP going ahead with this, I suspect it will be the fact that they don't have much in taxable profits at the moment, so they don't have much tax they can write off against a charitable donation. The failure of DUST is likely to have hit their books pretty hard and it may just be that with the best will in the world they simply don't have spare money to donate. There are two types of EVE player:
those who believe there are two types of EVE player and those who do not. |

Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
4634
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 17:27:00 -
[126] - Quote
Anyway if I have to be honest, I'd have appreciated a reply.
If I created a troll thread talking of boobs I'd have 2-3 dev replies by now.
Why not for an humanitarian initiative? Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |

Samroski
Games Inc. The Night Crew Alliance
308
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 18:12:00 -
[127] - Quote
Hilmar is famous for letting dust settle before addressing issues... we need another 40something page threadnought to reassure CCP that the problem hasn't gone away by itself. Any colour you like. |

Octoven
Phoenix Productions Headshot Gaming
260
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 19:14:00 -
[128] - Quote
Samroski wrote:Hilmar is famous for letting dust settle before addressing issues... we need another 40something page threadnought to reassure CCP that the problem hasn't gone away by itself.
Aye because that is working extremely well with the live events forum :P |

Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
4634
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 19:21:00 -
[129] - Quote
Samroski wrote:Hilmar is famous for letting dust settle before addressing issues... we need another 40something page threadnought to reassure CCP that the problem hasn't gone away by itself.
We can't let this fade off.
It's real people who are not getting an help, not some imaginary spacepixels.
Real people are dying and we sit here, unable to do what HAS to be done! Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |

Zappity
Kurved Space
624
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 19:24:00 -
[130] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Anyway if I have to be honest, I'd have appreciated a reply.
If I created a troll thread talking of boobs I'd have 2-3 dev replies by now.
Why not for an humanitarian initiative? This is ridiculous, CCP. Maybe VV should have badged the initiative around somer to get some attention. "Win a blink to get the aid!" Perhaps that is more their style nowadays.
Was that shot too cheap? Probably. But I don't understand what there is to even discuss. The drives have happened before, there has been a disaster, the community is ready and willing. Just get on with it. Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec. |

TruthState
Blood Covenant Pandemic Legion
23
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 19:37:00 -
[131] - Quote
If anyone has actually seen the Philipphines up close they know no amount of money could help that country. Before this tragedy happened this country was already wrecked. This money will be a wasted endeavor just to make 1st world folks feel good about themselves thinking they will solve problems. Face facts, your money will be waisted. Your temporary feeling of moral superiority will only make you feel good. In terms of pragmatic practicality it does nothing.
Enjoy your 1st world problems, and not solving issues in the real world. You want to make a difference you actually do, there is no other solution. Mother nature is a nasty *****, your dollars mean **** to nature.
Thx, |

Careby
Careby Exploration
83
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 19:38:00 -
[132] - Quote
I support Plex for Philippines relief, and hope CCP does also.
TruthState wrote:If anyone has actually seen the Philipphines up close they know no amount of money could help that country. Before this tragedy happened this country was already wrecked. This money will be a wasted endeavor just to make 1st world folks feel good about themselves thinking they will solve problems. Face facts, your money will be waisted. Your temporary feeling of moral superiority will only make you feel good. It terms of pragmatic practicality it does nothing... So is your point that we should only try to help those who don't need help? Or that we should not try to help anyone? |

baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
8547
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 19:40:00 -
[133] - Quote
In good news the death toll has dropped from 10k to 2500.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |

Rhivre
TarNec Invisible Exchequer
561
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 19:44:00 -
[134] - Quote
TruthState wrote:If anyone has actually seen the Philipphines up close they know no amount of money could help that country. Before this tragedy happened this country was already wrecked. This money will be a wasted endeavor just to make 1st world folks feel good about themselves thinking they will solve problems. Face facts, your money will be waisted. Your temporary feeling of moral superiority will only make you feel good. It terms of pragmatic practicality it does nothing.
Enjoy your 1st world problems, and not solving issues in the real world. Mother nature is a nasty *****, your dollars mean **** to nature.
Thx,
Really? People from that country who live elsewhere are sending money back to provide clean water, shelter for people there, and when the earthquake hit, money was sent directly.
You seem to be confusing "getting emergency aid to people who are freezing and starving and without clean water" with "Turning a place into a first world country".
Also, you seem to be under the impression that the Philippines is some backwater country. That is nice, and for sure, parts of it are off the beaten track, but to think it is some place stuck 200 years in the past developmentally is....quaint.
In terms of pragmatic practicality, providing emergency shelter, clean water, and other basic human needs to people is about as helpful as can be.
Can we stop nature pooping on the Philippines? Nope, but then, we couldn't stop Katrina, or the Earthquakes in Japan, Haiti, or Mount St Helens, or any other disaster. Fortunately however, we have an ability to try to prevent people dying from a lack of basic human needs.
|

TruthState
Blood Covenant Pandemic Legion
23
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 19:47:00 -
[135] - Quote
Rhivre wrote:TruthState wrote:If anyone has actually seen the Philipphines up close they know no amount of money could help that country. Before this tragedy happened this country was already wrecked. This money will be a wasted endeavor just to make 1st world folks feel good about themselves thinking they will solve problems. Face facts, your money will be waisted. Your temporary feeling of moral superiority will only make you feel good. It terms of pragmatic practicality it does nothing.
Enjoy your 1st world problems, and not solving issues in the real world. Mother nature is a nasty *****, your dollars mean **** to nature.
Thx,
Really? People from that country who live elsewhere are sending money back to provide clean water, shelter for people there, and when the earthquake hit, money was sent directly. You seem to be confusing "getting emergency aid to people who are freezing and starving and without clean water" with "Turning a place into a first world country". Also, you seem to be under the impression that the Philippines is some backwater country. That is nice, and for sure, parts of it are off the beaten track, but to think it is some place stuck 200 years in the past developmentally is....quaint. In terms of pragmatic practicality, providing emergency shelter, clean water, and other basic human needs to people is about as helpful as can be. Can we stop nature pooping on the Philippines? Nope, but then, we couldn't stop Katrina, or the Earthquakes in Japan, Haiti, or Mount St Helens, or any other disaster. Fortunately however, we have an ability to try to prevent people dying from a lack of basic human needs.
k |

RAW23
490
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 20:01:00 -
[136] - Quote
TruthState wrote:If anyone has actually seen the Philipphines up close they know no amount of money could help that country. Before this tragedy happened this country was already wrecked. This money will be a wasted endeavor just to make 1st world folks feel good about themselves thinking they will solve problems. Face facts, your money will be waisted. Your temporary feeling of moral superiority will only make you feel good. In terms of pragmatic practicality it does nothing.
Enjoy your 1st world problems, and not solving issues in the real world. You want to make a difference you actually do, there is no other solution. Mother nature is a nasty *****, your dollars mean **** to nature.
Thx,
Wow! You're so tough and worldly. Help the rest of us be cynical defeatists like you, please! I'm sure it's for the best.
On a side note, your arguments are ****. There are two types of EVE player:
those who believe there are two types of EVE player and those who do not. |

Nanatoa
450
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 20:04:00 -
[137] - Quote
TruthState wrote:If anyone has actually seen the Philipphines up close they know no amount of money could help that country. Before this tragedy happened this country was already wrecked. This money will be a wasted endeavor just to make 1st world folks feel good about themselves thinking they will solve problems. Face facts, your money will be waisted. Your temporary feeling of moral superiority will only make you feel good. In terms of pragmatic practicality it does nothing.
Enjoy your 1st world problems, and not solving issues in the real world. You want to make a difference you actually do, there is no other solution. Mother nature is a nasty *****, your dollars mean **** to nature.
If you're gonna troll at least make your post internally consistent. "Face facts, your money will be waisted[sic]. Your temporary feeling of moral superiority will only make you feel good." Surely spending money so one feels good is not wasting money? If the money really does nothing else, at least it has made one person feel better. "Stay the course, we have done this many times before." - (CCP) Hilmar, June 2011
|

Nanatoa
450
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 20:06:00 -
[138] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Anyway if I have to be honest, I'd have appreciated a reply.
If I created a troll thread talking of boobs I'd have 2-3 dev replies by now.
I have an idea: perhaps you could Skype with someone from CCP? Instant reply! "Stay the course, we have done this many times before." - (CCP) Hilmar, June 2011
|

TruthState
Blood Covenant Pandemic Legion
23
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 20:13:00 -
[139] - Quote
RAW23 wrote:TruthState wrote:If anyone has actually seen the Philipphines up close they know no amount of money could help that country. Before this tragedy happened this country was already wrecked. This money will be a wasted endeavor just to make 1st world folks feel good about themselves thinking they will solve problems. Face facts, your money will be waisted. Your temporary feeling of moral superiority will only make you feel good. In terms of pragmatic practicality it does nothing.
Enjoy your 1st world problems, and not solving issues in the real world. You want to make a difference you actually do, there is no other solution. Mother nature is a nasty *****, your dollars mean **** to nature.
Thx, Wow! You're so tough and worldly. Help the rest of us be cynical defeatists like you, please! I'm sure it's for the best. On a side note, your arguments are ****.
You can throw your money at the problem as you wish, it wont solve a thing. People here in the West dont care about the Philippines, what they do care about is to make themselves feel good that they are making a difference with the money they send over. I'm looking at what good was done since the 2004 Tsunami relief or the Haiti earthquake. All that was done was temporary feelings of self gratification that good deeds were done. But its a frugal exercise to donate 10$ to give someone food or water for a day. Same thing with when you have aid organizations giving food to nations in Africa. You give people the tools to become independent, not reliant consistently on the outside world. You want food for your people, here are the tools we will give you to grow, not consecutive hand outs that solve nothing. You want problems to not persist during emergencies, then fund the neccessary government organizations to do the hardwork through the national tax process & not pass it over to NGO's that'll be eager to waste a good chunk of the money on administrative costs. Let it be a government venture not a NGO venture. |

Rhivre
TarNec Invisible Exchequer
561
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 20:20:00 -
[140] - Quote
Some of us know people who are directly affected by the typhoon, and they certainly do not see money being sent to provide basic stuff as wasted, or useless. They also do not think the money raised that they sent directly after the earthquake is wasted, and neither is the money they themselves are taking over.
To compare food aid to a country or development aid, to aid after one of the strongest storms ever to make landfall is....a bizarre comparison. Problems "persisting" during this emergency include, but are not limited to "Holy crap, my house doesnt exist" "our water is full of sewage". Now, I am not sure what you suggest is best for preventing these problems, as even one of the richest cities in the world suffered with a lack of utilities after a wind several orders of magnitude smaller last year.
Bearing in mind that alleged 1st world countries need assistance after disasters....and almost 10 years down the road are still not functioning as before.... |

RAW23
490
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 20:25:00 -
[141] - Quote
TruthState wrote:RAW23 wrote:TruthState wrote:If anyone has actually seen the Philipphines up close they know no amount of money could help that country. Before this tragedy happened this country was already wrecked. This money will be a wasted endeavor just to make 1st world folks feel good about themselves thinking they will solve problems. Face facts, your money will be waisted. Your temporary feeling of moral superiority will only make you feel good. In terms of pragmatic practicality it does nothing.
Enjoy your 1st world problems, and not solving issues in the real world. You want to make a difference you actually do, there is no other solution. Mother nature is a nasty *****, your dollars mean **** to nature.
Thx, Wow! You're so tough and worldly. Help the rest of us be cynical defeatists like you, please! I'm sure it's for the best. On a side note, your arguments are ****. You can throw your money at the problem as you wish, it wont solve a thing. People here in the West dont care about the Philippines, what they do care about is to make themselves feel good that they are making a difference with the money they send over. I'm looking at what good was done since the 2004 Tsunami relief or the Haiti earthquake. All that was done was temporary feelings of self gratification that good deeds were done. But its a frugal exercise to donate 10$ to give someone food or water for a day. Same thing with when you have aid organizations giving food to nations in Africa. You give people the tools to become independent, not reliant consistently on the outside world. You want food for your people, here are the tools we will give you to grow, not consecutive hand outs that solve nothing. You want problems to not persist during emergencies, then fund the neccessary government organizations to do the hardwork through the national tax process & not pass it over to NGO's that'll be eager to waste a good chunk of the money on administrative costs. Let it be a government venture not a NGO venture.
None of this really makes sense. You are mixing up a whole bunch of bitter talking points that don't really hang together as a coherent whole. Help but don't help. Horrible aid organisations. Westerners just wanting to feel good. Bullshit analyses about nothing good being done in Haiti at all. It's pretty much crap start to finish. Some of the points have independent weight but none of them individually, and certainly not the whole lot collectively, add up to anything like a reason not to give money to the Red Cross in order to help support the provision of immediate relief. Frankly, it's an intellectual mess and its genuinely pretty pitiful seeing someone deliberately trying to discourage people from helping a relief effort just to make themselves feel tough and smug. There are two types of EVE player:
those who believe there are two types of EVE player and those who do not. |

TruthState
Blood Covenant Pandemic Legion
23
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 20:33:00 -
[142] - Quote
Rhivre wrote:Some of us know people who are directly affected by the typhoon, and they certainly do not see money being sent to provide basic stuff as wasted, or useless. They also do not think the money raised that they sent directly after the earthquake is wasted, and neither is the money they themselves are taking over.
To compare food aid to a country or development aid, to aid after one of the strongest storms ever to make landfall is....a bizarre comparison. Problems "persisting" during this emergency include, but are not limited to "Holy crap, my house doesnt exist" "our water is full of sewage". Now, I am not sure what you suggest is best for preventing these problems, as even one of the richest cities in the world suffered with a lack of utilities after a wind several orders of magnitude smaller last year.
Bearing in mind that alleged 1st world countries need assistance after disasters....and almost 10 years down the road are still not functioning as before....
What I am saying is there is a disconnect somewhere. Either you fix a problem and make sure theres emergency measures you can take to save maximum lives or you become neglectful. A perfect system would solve all the problems with maximum efficiency in resource allocation. But we know waste is a persistent feature with any system. New Orleans is a perfect example of this. You go there and you see 9/10 years afterwards very little has changed and the desire to truely fix problems does not exist. Temporary solutions to temporary fixes.
Whats the solution to helping nation states in dire need? We have governments for a reason, with all the tax money that comes into nation states, measures should be in place to make sure its people have the means of being saved during disasters. And it shouldnt be the responsibility of individuals to solve the problem. Responsibility relies on nation states.
Look at Japan right now, they are still having problems with Fukushima because there is not a solution or full on will to solve the Fukushima problem. Leaking radioactive water into the Pacific etc...
So whats the problem in fixing these kinds of problems by nation states? And handouts like these in my mind do nothing, but enrich disfunctional systems. These are half measures in my eyes to just hand out money |

Joshu Mumon
J.M. Capital Corporation Unsung Voices
2
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 20:39:00 -
[143] - Quote
TruthState wrote:You want problems to not persist during emergencies, then fund the neccessary government organizations to do the hardwork through the national tax process & not pass it over to NGO's that'll be eager to waste a good chunk of the money on administrative costs. Let it be a government venture not a NGO venture.
Individuals are suffering. Should they continue to do so because they "should" make their government do something about about it ahead of time? What happens if a government is dysfunctional? What if the measures are not enough? |

Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
4634
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 20:39:00 -
[144] - Quote
Please take your politics into a separate thread.
It's not like by sending money we are doing them worse than sending nothing because [insert here colorful reason].
I leave to the world governors the task to implement sweeping changes that could change a nation's destiny.
I am focused to one task: provide immediate relief to those who are dying for lack of food and water TODAY.
On a separate matter, more people are sending donations:
2013-11-12: 2 x PLEX | Donor name: Zappity Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |

Careby
Careby Exploration
83
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 20:43:00 -
[145] - Quote
TruthState wrote:...You want problems to not persist during emergencies, then fund the neccessary government organizations to do the hardwork through the national tax process & not pass it over to NGO's that'll be eager to waste a good chunk of the money on administrative costs. Let it be a government venture not a NGO venture. Thanks for injecting a little comic relief into the conversation. I didn't realize you were joking in your first couple posts because of the serious nature of the topic. But adding the "government = low administrative costs" line, even I get it now.
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Please take your politics into a separate thread.... Yes, sorry to have contributed to pushing the thread further off topic. |

baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
8547
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 20:46:00 -
[146] - Quote
It seems aid isn't the issue its the lack of small planes to transport it. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |

Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
4634
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 21:07:00 -
[147] - Quote
A newborn player has just sent 10M to the charity: probably all he had. He also opted to remain anonymous.
I am going to send him 100M off my personal wallet for the gesture!
/bows Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |

Zions Child
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
509
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 21:15:00 -
[148] - Quote
Careby wrote:TruthState wrote:...You want problems to not persist during emergencies, then fund the neccessary government organizations to do the hardwork through the national tax process & not pass it over to NGO's that'll be eager to waste a good chunk of the money on administrative costs. Let it be a government venture not a NGO venture. Thanks for injecting a little comic relief into the conversation. I didn't realize you were joking in your first couple posts because of the serious nature of the topic. But adding the "government = low administrative costs" line, even I get it now.
To be fair, government organizations have repeatedly proven themselves (when appropriately funded and not tied by red tape a la FEMA during Katrina) to have an extremely low amount of administrative overhead in relief and charity operations. The Red Cross and many other private non-profits tend to have high operating costs (part of this is economies of scale, and another part of it is that government organizations tend to have access to a much larger amount of resources). If you look at Hurricane Sandy, the various NGOs and government organizations did quite a bit more than the Red Cross and other private organizations, at a significantly lower cost.
It's just more pleasant to say that private charities are more effective (despite pretty much all evidence to the contrary).
Anyways, despite my personal dislike of non-profit charities, I've donated RL money to the relief fund because there's not a hell of a lot else I can do (I'd donate blood... but I can't...).
If I have extra iskies or plex or something I'll send a few your way Varokh! |

Rhivre
TarNec Invisible Exchequer
561
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 22:28:00 -
[149] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:A newborn player has just sent 10M to the charity: probably all he had. He also opted to remain anonymous.
I am going to send him 100M off my personal wallet for the gesture!
/bows
Nice.
(totally not random bumping) |

Pampers Toralen
Reluctant Warriors Disorganized Outcasts
58
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 00:45:00 -
[150] - Quote
@BennyOj @CCP_Manifest @CCP_Guard We're currently discussing something internally with regards to this but can't really talk publicly yet :)
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