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Kabaos
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
81
|
Posted - 2013.11.24 08:04:00 -
[1] - Quote
Promises : https://wiki.eveonline.com/wikiEN/index.php/Walking_in_stations
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzZRRPPw_QE
I will not repeat, and so there are lots of topics already about good Incarna. Working : http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/Myrkala/Incarna_Wallpaper1280x1024.jpg
I want to see the volumetric Sci-Fi, but not only space and ships. |
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris
Republic Military Tax Avoiders
403
|
Posted - 2013.11.24 13:58:00 -
[2] - Quote
I guess you were living in a cave for past several years so you know nothing about Jita riots and player protests against "features" Incarna had to offer. Opinions are like assholes. Everybody's got one and everyone thinks everyone else's stinks. |
Moonaura
The Dead Rabbit Society
352
|
Posted - 2013.11.24 14:06:00 -
[3] - Quote
Its all there... behind the door... Boldly going forward, still can't find reverse - name that tune kids! |
Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2670
|
Posted - 2013.11.24 14:12:00 -
[4] - Quote
Some promises are better broken than kept. CCP: Not out to ruin your game, out to ruin their game. |
Sentamon
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1163
|
Posted - 2013.11.24 14:25:00 -
[5] - Quote
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris wrote:I guess you were living in a cave for past several years so you know nothing about Jita riots and player protests against "features" Incarna had to offer.
There were no riots over WiS. ~ Professional Forum Alt -á~ |
Kabaos
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
81
|
Posted - 2013.11.24 14:35:00 -
[6] - Quote
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris wrote:I guess you were living in a cave for past several years so you know nothing about Jita riots and player protests against "features" Incarna had to offer.
You associate a monocle for $ 50 with Walking in stations? Let's clarify that WIS not only clothes from NEX shop. |
Kabaos
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
82
|
Posted - 2013.11.24 14:37:00 -
[7] - Quote
Sentamon wrote:Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris wrote:I guess you were living in a cave for past several years so you know nothing about Jita riots and player protests against "features" Incarna had to offer. There were no riots over WiS.
Agree. |
Kabaos
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
82
|
Posted - 2013.11.24 14:48:00 -
[8] - Quote
CCP starts new projects without bringing others to the end. They started DUST 514, World of Darkness, EVE-VR.
In my opinion they should have completed 1.Walking in stations (more than only 1 Captain Quarter (Cabine of player )), after launch the DUST 514, and than make other projects, company still develops due to players maintaining.
It would be interesting to chat with the players even in some block of 50 people if it does not allow today's hardware capabilities. Would not have been players there would be no Dust 514, WOD, EVE-VR, so that in some way CCP should go to meet the players.
-íonclusion: CCP has to make qualitative Walking in Stations |
Moonaura
The Dead Rabbit Society
352
|
Posted - 2013.11.24 15:09:00 -
[9] - Quote
I know there is that, elephant in the room that promises to have something just like WiS... but once you've seen your space ships coffee table drop from the ceiling two times, is it really adding anything to the game?
Games like X-Rebirth has walking in stations. Its awful. Now you have to dock. Get off your ship, and talk to an NPC with the same dialogue over and over again. Then it crashes.
That whole 'future vision' thing CCP had going on, now known as the 'Screw that, lets build stargates instead vision', was an interesting one though, but to make it work, you actually need a much deeper and more complex set of interactions to make it add anything meaningful. Such as being able to shoot people in the face like in the trailer. But given what we've got with Dust 514, we should probably be very grateful its dead. What we probably would have got, is a virtual hairdressers and the ability to sip on virtual martini' in a virtual bar starring out the virtual window looking at virtual space.
I know my old Swedish friends are gutted though. They wanted to open a Gay Bar in Jita lol
Boldly going forward, still can't find reverse - name that tune kids! |
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris
Republic Military Tax Avoiders
403
|
Posted - 2013.11.24 15:15:00 -
[10] - Quote
Kabaos wrote:You associate a monocle for $ 50 with Walking in stations? Let's clarify that WIS not only clothes from NEX shop. but they were bundled in same update, so frustration about NEX moved to WiS when they failed to deliver promised content. Opinions are like assholes. Everybody's got one and everyone thinks everyone else's stinks. |
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Izzy Ankhavees
Ankhavees Data Mining AEB Industrial Assembly
1
|
Posted - 2013.11.24 15:31:00 -
[11] - Quote
Problem is and always was the lack of need to know basis. CCP learned over the last years to not talk about things too far ahead like they did with incarna, exactly because the kind of problem that brought. Today we see more like "FYI" feature releases, where you have already the change laid down almost done and then one day they say it is there, and if you have good eye for details you see that it was there for a long time just waiting to be activated. That is speacially obvious for people that look into the item database and such, and you know that the more recent new features are there before they say they are.
Incarna had a huge probability of gearing EVE towards dimensions never before achieved, but there was a catch: People had to have patience and see what devs wanted to convey. That never happens, speacially if you make your playerbase think that they command the game.
The people who are eager to complain and flame are also hot headed and prone to enjoy only blowing stuff up and for no reason at all. Anything that requires planning or strategy, and anything that means dispute or power, but is not translated into missiles and turrets are frown upon. Even logistics and tactical ships are a powerful overlooked by 80% of the players that speak their minds on forums and general public channels.
That is why anything less than what involves damage, mitigation and avoidance of, and speed, is quickly flamed and protested upon.
So, you will probably have all the features being placed in ready mode behind the scenes, and then one day a dev blog announces that it is happening, and when it does, you perceive that they had it being worked on but not talking about to avoid the trollage and "blow stuff up for no reason" folks to bother.
Pretty much what long lived governments, companies and parents learn to do the hard way. "Perfect crimes do not exist, for to be a crime, it must be proven." "Make the body count unacceptable to ensure your own safety." "Basic rule of covert ops: let someone else do your dirty work." |
Kabaos
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
82
|
Posted - 2013.11.24 15:33:00 -
[12] - Quote
Moonaura wrote:I know there is that, elephant in the room that promises to have something just like WiS... but once you've seen your space ships coffee table drop from the ceiling two times, is it really adding anything to the game?
That whole 'future vision' thing CCP had going on, now known as the 'Screw that, lets build stargates instead vision', was an interesting one though, but to make it work, you actually need a much deeper and more complex set of interactions to make it add anything meaningful. Such as being able to shoot people in the face like in the trailer.
I'm not saying that CCP need to put 100%, they can add some new in WIS in expansions, how they do. |
Moonaura
The Dead Rabbit Society
352
|
Posted - 2013.11.24 15:35:00 -
[13] - Quote
Izzy Ankhavees wrote:Pretty much what long lived governments, companies and parents learn to do the hard way.
Is this why we hate politicians, fat cats and our parents (well not all of us)? ;) Boldly going forward, still can't find reverse - name that tune kids! |
Moonaura
The Dead Rabbit Society
352
|
Posted - 2013.11.24 15:37:00 -
[14] - Quote
Kabaos wrote:Moonaura wrote:I know there is that, elephant in the room that promises to have something just like WiS... but once you've seen your space ships coffee table drop from the ceiling two times, is it really adding anything to the game?
That whole 'future vision' thing CCP had going on, now known as the 'Screw that, lets build stargates instead vision', was an interesting one though, but to make it work, you actually need a much deeper and more complex set of interactions to make it add anything meaningful. Such as being able to shoot people in the face like in the trailer.
I'm not saying that CCP need to put 100%, they can add some new in WIS in expansions, how they do.
I'm not against the idea, I'm just against it not adding anything worth while and being eye candy. What they were planning - from all interviews and accounts - was eye candy, sadly. They weren't even going to allow pvp in stations for example.
I'd love for there to be a game as complex as that, truly I would. I'm just not sure I'm willing to keep paying CCP each month while it takes them 10 years to do it. Boldly going forward, still can't find reverse - name that tune kids! |
El Geo
Pathfinders.
179
|
Posted - 2013.11.24 20:14:00 -
[15] - Quote
Cosmos agents and some storylines unfinished, Corporate system broken, pos system broken path-+find-+er (pthfndr, p+ñth-)n. 1. One that discovers a new course or way, especially through or into unexplored regions.
http://www.youtube.com/user/EvEPathfinders/videos?view=0 |
Arthur Aihaken
The.VOID
634
|
Posted - 2013.11.24 23:38:00 -
[16] - Quote
Dust 514... travel the world... meet new people. Then kill them. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
stoicfaux
3412
|
Posted - 2013.11.24 23:59:00 -
[17] - Quote
Wis/Incarna ran into planning issues. There was a thread/blog stating that CCP was integrating WoD into EVE which should have been "easy." However, it was more difficult and time consuming than expected. This lead to basically 18 months of no features being added to EVE which greatly annoyed the majority of players.
Don't expect WiiS until after WoD is done/stable.
|
Izzy Ankhavees
Ankhavees Data Mining AEB Industrial Assembly
4
|
Posted - 2013.11.25 05:16:00 -
[18] - Quote
Yes, right.
The harder part of that is already ingame. The problem is only player whining. But you will never see that said.
You really want someone with development experience to believe that it is hard to make ambulance for a game that has all the features eve has in maximum graph specs ? Gimme a break.
The problem is entirely in playerbase whining.
Most players cant understand that different people work in different areas of eve, and the effort made in one front is not detrimental to another. The people on sov and corp balance is not the people on "space barbie" things, and if they were not working on space barbie sector, they would be doing reflections on ships, storms on planets, or whatever cosmetic changes you have, because that is THEIR thing.
Another aspect of player whining is those "broken mechanics".
CCP will never say the truth, but most SOV and POS problems come from the fact that THE PLAYER DONT KNOW HOW TO USE IT, and want it to work the way they want it to, rather than the way it works, and for a reason.
You have some tweaks needed to make it better, but all that SOV and POS whining is bordering the divinity. Soon you will have stations devoted to the cult of SOV/POS broken myth. "Perfect crimes do not exist, for to be a crime, it must be proven." "Make the body count unacceptable to ensure your own safety." "Basic rule of covert ops: let someone else do your dirty work." |
Kabaos
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
87
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 11:51:00 -
[19] - Quote
Moonaura wrote:
I'm not saying that CCP need to put 100%, they can add some new in WIS in expansions, how they do. I'm not against the idea, I'm just against it not adding anything worth while and being eye candy. What they were planning - from all interviews and accounts - was eye candy, sadly. They weren't even going to allow pvp in stations for example.
I think that if within a couple of years CCP not will add something intresting, players will go to other games, where much more variety . And hold on to the space and all .. this is nonsense, the game should evolve . |
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd CAStabouts
1190
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 11:59:00 -
[20] - Quote
There is a measurable contingent of older players (read: bittervets) who very specifically want the game to not evolve.
I can understand their sentiments a bit, but to think that EVE Online should go another 10 years being pretty much exactly what we have.. I don't see the game lasting 10 more years in that kind of a state. |
|
Kabaos
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
87
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 12:10:00 -
[21] - Quote
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:There is a measurable contingent of older players (read: bittervets) who very specifically want the game to not evolve.
I can understand their sentiments a bit, but to think that EVE Online should go another 10 years being pretty much exactly what we have.. I don't see the game lasting 10 more years in that kind of a state.
Yes , I think so, but EVE was good beacuse EVolved , for this much of players like it. |
Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
28
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 12:36:00 -
[22] - Quote
Please no compulsory WiS. I want to fly space ships, not dress up. |
Reiisha
Evolution
411
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 12:44:00 -
[23] - Quote
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:There is a measurable contingent of older players (read: bittervets) who very specifically want the game to not evolve.
I can understand their sentiments a bit, but to think that EVE Online should go another 10 years being pretty much exactly what we have.. I don't see the game lasting 10 more years in that kind of a state.
10+ year vet, anxiously waiting for WiS to finally arrive. Been waiting for it since it was first announced in 2006.
If you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all... |
Moonaura
The Dead Rabbit Society
361
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 13:14:00 -
[24] - Quote
Kabaos wrote:Moonaura wrote:
I'm not saying that CCP need to put 100%, they can add some new in WIS in expansions, how they do. I'm not against the idea, I'm just against it not adding anything worth while and being eye candy. What they were planning - from all interviews and accounts - was eye candy, sadly. They weren't even going to allow pvp in stations for example.
I think that if within a couple of years CCP not will add something intresting, players will go to other games, where much more variety . And hold on to the space and all .. this is nonsense, the game should evolve .
Two things. First off, you've misquoted me there. I didn't even say that first sentence, only the second paragraph. Please be careful with your quote trimming!
And secondly, okay, so you want to talk about Star Citizen. The space game getting all the headlines as its budget grows ever larger.
Yes you will be able to press a virtual button and get a virtual coffee table and virtually spin around in a fancy chair and sit in your cockpit. And yes, eventually you'll be able to walk around a station or city or whatever. Eventually being able to 'PvP' in it, although that is incredibly vague still.
None of that means it will either be 1. Fun. 2. Have any point.
While there is an immersion factor there that I like a lot, I don't get a sense there is any real depth to it. I mean, sure pay $$$ to have a space ship that the dining table drops from the ceiling if you will, I for one have better things to spend my time and money on.
And while it will have some MMO like features, it is not an MMO in the actual game play. Its entirely instanced combat, because as of yet, the world doesn't have fast enough internet and servers able to cope with such dynamic amounts of information when scaled to thousands of players.
If we're going to have spaceships to walk around - I want them to be truly functional things that add game immersion. You know, if the engines break down, you have to go and fix them. There is a game being developed just like that, where different players have roles in the ship and the whole thing has a sort of FTL feel to it, albeit 3D, but damned if I can find it again. Its graphics are relatively simple, but who cares - its the gameplay and concept that would be enjoyable.
So Star Citizen can make more money, promise yet more things. I bet at $50 million you will unlock World Peace or something. None of this makes it either finished, or a good game yet. The signs are promising, but then again many games have promised a lot and failed to deliver in the past.
When its finally done, and I mean, really done as in three-four years or so (You have to pay attention to the bit where Chris talks about the game never really being finished), then I look forward to playing it.
As for CCP and WiS, they could have carried on down the route, but none of the stuff they had on the table really stood out as being stuff most players wanted. And again, there is an issue of scale and scarcity, where some stations are empty and others have thousands of players in. Not sure how that would have worked - I'm not sure CCP did either.
By all accounts of what CCP talked about, what I think you would have got, is a very cool looking, science fiction version of PS3 Home.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=MAyKZms5_YI
Oh dear.
In time, it could be more than that, but you're talking years of effort and money, while the core game went unfixed and unloved. Boldly going forward, still can't find reverse - name that tune kids! |
Debora Tsung
The Investment Bankers Guild
623
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 14:32:00 -
[25] - Quote
Delt0r Garsk wrote:Please no compulsory WiS. I want to fly space ships, not dress up.
Typical example of an average incarna whine post.
"Oh noez! If ccp enables players to walk in stationz I won't be able to fly my cuddly widdle space ship anymoar..." Stupidity should be a bannable offense.
Also This --> https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=216699 Please stop making "afk cloak" threads, thanks in advance. |
Kabaos
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
87
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 14:43:00 -
[26] - Quote
Delt0r Garsk wrote:Please no compulsory WiS. I want to fly space ships, not dress up.
OK, delete part of EVE, and not enter in Captain Quarters. WIS not only can you dress, WIS is idea when you can: customize your CQ, buy some shop, bar , other places, where you can be a boss , and customize. Not only this , think much more, for this they added AURUM. |
Kabaos
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
87
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 14:52:00 -
[27] - Quote
Reiisha wrote:Alvatore DiMarco wrote:There is a measurable contingent of older players (read: bittervets) who very specifically want the game to not evolve.
I can understand their sentiments a bit, but to think that EVE Online should go another 10 years being pretty much exactly what we have.. I don't see the game lasting 10 more years in that kind of a state. 10+ year vet, anxiously waiting for WiS to finally arrive. Been waiting for it since it was first announced in 2006.
Agree, they must make it clear to the players: WIS is rejected idea, or has the right to withdraw. Players do not need to fool head. I can also say a lot, like "I will buy CCP", but the words must match actions, or they need to refuse WIS. |
Kabaos
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
87
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 15:15:00 -
[28] - Quote
Moonaura wrote:Kabaos wrote:Moonaura wrote:
I'm not saying that CCP need to put 100%, they can add some new in WIS in expansions, how they do. I'm not against the idea, I'm just against it not adding anything worth while and being eye candy. What they were planning - from all interviews and accounts - was eye candy, sadly. They weren't even going to allow pvp in stations for example.
I think that if within a couple of years CCP not will add something intresting, players will go to other games, where much more variety . And hold on to the space and all .. this is nonsense, the game should evolve . Two things. First off, you've misquoted me there. I didn't even say that first sentence, only the second paragraph. Please be careful with your quote trimming! And secondly, okay, so you want to talk about Star Citizen. The space game getting all the headlines as its budget grows ever larger. Yes you will be able to press a virtual button and get a virtual coffee table and virtually spin around in a fancy chair and sit in your cockpit. And yes, eventually you'll be able to walk around a station or city or whatever. Eventually being able to 'PvP' in it, although that is incredibly vague still. None of that means it will either be 1. Fun. 2. Have any point. While there is an immersion factor there that I like a lot, I don't get a sense there is any real depth to it. I mean, sure pay $$$ to have a space ship that the dining table drops from the ceiling if you will, I for one have better things to spend my time and money on. And while it will have some MMO like features, it is not an MMO in the actual game play. Its entirely instanced combat, because as of yet, the world doesn't have fast enough internet and servers able to cope with such dynamic amounts of information when scaled to thousands of players. If we're going to have spaceships to walk around - I want them to be truly functional things that add game immersion. You know, if the engines break down, you have to go and fix them. There is a game being developed just like that, where different players have roles in the ship and the whole thing has a sort of FTL feel to it, albeit 3D, but damned if I can find it again. Its graphics are relatively simple, but who cares - its the gameplay and concept that would be enjoyable. So Star Citizen can make more money, promise yet more things. I bet at $50 million you will unlock World Peace or something. None of this makes it either finished, or a good game yet. The signs are promising, but then again many games have promised a lot and failed to deliver in the past. When its finally done, and I mean, really done as in three-four years or so (You have to pay attention to the bit where Chris talks about the game never really being finished), then I look forward to playing it. As for CCP and WiS, they could have carried on down the route, but none of the stuff they had on the table really stood out as being stuff most players wanted. And again, there is an issue of scale and scarcity, where some stations are empty and others have thousands of players in. Not sure how that would have worked - I'm not sure CCP did either. By all accounts of what CCP talked about, what I think you would have got, is a very cool looking, science fiction version of PS3 Home. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=MAyKZms5_YI Oh dear. In time, it could be more than that, but you're talking years of effort and money, while the core game went unfixed and unloved.
"If we're going to have spaceships to walk around - I want them to be truly functional things that add game immersion." About to walk around spaceship is far idea think. About WIS- I'm not say about they need to develop all of can happen in station. CCP can install for first only walk in station (what we have- CapQuarters) without connect for some players, other step, add some blocks(bar's, market's, poker club and other...), other step customize CQ, and etc..Like a usual expansion, if we say about 100% Sci-Fi, EVE far for it, but they can bring closer it. In eve little opportunities , only fly , kill, trade , and Captain qurters. But I want much more interact with players, for example take a walk with corp member in steel corridors of Caldari stations, or stay in some room and see how fly ships, or discuss important issues in -íorp Quarters with my corp members , from the social point of view it is very important, now you see only space , space , space and more again SPACE. |
Kabaos
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
87
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 15:20:00 -
[29] - Quote
Even sailor tired of the sea, can go on land. |
Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
29
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 16:08:00 -
[30] - Quote
Debora Tsung wrote:Delt0r Garsk wrote:Please no compulsory WiS. I want to fly space ships, not dress up. Typical example of an average incarna whine post. "Oh noez! If ccp enables players to walk in stationz I won't be able to fly my cuddly widdle space ship anymoar..." Try reading.
You can walk around all you like. As long as i don't have too. |
|
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
720
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 19:12:00 -
[31] - Quote
Delt0r Garsk wrote:Please no compulsory WiS. I want to fly space ships, not dress up.
Thank you for sharing :)
But I think nobody here cares if you like or dislike to fly wearing panties, latex, naked or whatever; it's not a discussion about your personal fetish but about possible gameplay improvements.
|
Seranova Farreach
Lion Squadron
451
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 20:50:00 -
[32] - Quote
itll probably be in Incarna 2.0 when they finish rebalanceing everything, introduceing modular posses, increaseing the amount of galaxies in eve (2014 perhaps), 2014 for highsec poco-loco and a whole lot of other more important stuff befor we get to show off our fashion sence in stations.. and then nex/aur will finally make sence :P |
Izzy Ankhavees
Ankhavees Data Mining AEB Industrial Assembly
7
|
Posted - 2013.11.27 03:33:00 -
[33] - Quote
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:There is a measurable contingent of older players (read: bittervets) who very specifically want the game to not evolve.
I can understand their sentiments a bit, but to think that EVE Online should go another 10 years being pretty much exactly what we have.. I don't see the game lasting 10 more years in that kind of a state.
And the concept of evolution is a bit odd. Some people take evolution as any change that increases some aspect of the game. In that sense, people take the new tech II command ships as evolution.
For other people, evolution is a change that allows something else to be done. And in this case, you are right, evolution is bad for bittervets.
But the problem is the legion of wannabes that find in the words of them the faith, and ask for something they dont even know what is, but talk about as they did, because some angry vet said what it "leads to".
That is the curse of leaving aspects of the game up to players instead of taking dictatorial control. Again, that is what parents, politicians and teachers have been learning mostly the hardway.
I still not sure if all this player driven things, one only shard and loose punishment is really that good. I mean, in the real world somethings arent done because they are risky and bear consequences. When you start putting the the ability of players in mitigating those punishments and risks ones to others, you are starting a very tenuous road to creating the entrenched elite and unfranchised small groups, which in turn leads to "stale progress".
That is the main reason EVE has stalled in evolution. What was the dream of players 5 years ago is not the same as today. A lot changed in the world, in the mmo industry, and although EVE is top of its genre, somethings arent the top of new players expectations anymore. "Perfect crimes do not exist, for to be a crime, it must be proven." "Make the body count unacceptable to ensure your own safety." "Basic rule of covert ops: let someone else do your dirty work." |
Scuzzy Logic
Midnight Elites Partners of Industrial Service and Salvage
71
|
Posted - 2013.11.27 04:11:00 -
[34] - Quote
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris wrote:I guess you were living in a cave for past several years so you know nothing about Jita riots and player protests against "features" Incarna had to offer.
I'm still confused as to why players rebelled against a genuinely good idea, when garbage like the loot pinata got no outrage. |
Arthur Aihaken
The.VOID
663
|
Posted - 2013.11.27 04:19:00 -
[35] - Quote
I fail to understand the desire to turn an aspect of EVE into "Second Life". I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd CAStabouts
1204
|
Posted - 2013.11.27 04:38:00 -
[36] - Quote
You're all doing it very wrong. Here's how you reply correctly.
Delt0r Garsk wrote:Please no compulsory WiS. I want to fly space ships, not dress up.
CCP tried compulsory WiS during Incarna and it went very badly for them. I'm pretty sure they've learned their lesson and won't try to force anyone to use WiS again - or any of its features when they do arrive. |
Radhe Amatin
Shadow State Fatal Ascension
24
|
Posted - 2013.11.27 06:15:00 -
[37] - Quote
i believe CCP is working on adding new region of space , with a whole new array of player build stuff. I want that as fast as possible so ignore any kind of stupid walk in stations. Much more interesting content the WiS which adds nothing to eve gameplay. |
Captain Meric
Angry Happy fun times
0
|
Posted - 2013.11.27 07:30:00 -
[38] - Quote
Scuzzy Logic wrote:Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris wrote:I guess you were living in a cave for past several years so you know nothing about Jita riots and player protests against "features" Incarna had to offer. I'm still confused as to why players rebelled against a genuinely good idea, when garbage like the loot pinata got no outrage.
It wasn't one thing people rebelled against, it wasn't just WIS or the lack of content of the letter that was leaked, or the introduction of Aurum (and the over priced stuff for the cosmetics ). It was a combination of all these things being built up in the community for over a year or so that raised to the riots.
Players where tired of some of the broken things in the game and seeing our money being handed over for other games. (it is there right I guess but still some of the nagging things needed to be worked on)
I think, for the most part, the WIS was going to be accepted, but they didn't come out with anything. I almost fried my computer when it first loaded. I was on a older computer and had trouble just logging in sometimes at that point before the placed "the door" there.
Before all that, many people who have friendly chat channels of their own where looking forward to making bars, lounges and such of there own. When clothing was announced I remember many of my corp mates wondering if they would be able to make in game shirts and such for others, uniforms for there corp and so on.
The built it all up saying the player will have control. We didn't at that point. So the player rioted then. It really wasn't just over WiS but big hopes and dreams and the rest all coming to a head with a really disappointed player base. IF they had opened the doors and let people just pop up a small place of there own when Incarna came out (and some of the other things didn't happen) then I doubt we would have gotten to many people saying it was bad. Some like myself preferring to stay mostly ship side while others go do there stuff in game.
(though, I still think Aurem should be removed from all aspects of the game and let it be isk, or if you really want clothing something like a dollar or two, I don't ever see spending a Plex on it unless it has changed since I left )
So yes it wasn't the futures of Incarna, it was the lack of features with the hopes we had.
Perhaps, if they cannot do it maybe ask the player base to help so they don't have to design everything on there own? freeing the devs to work on all the other stuff and get the door open? I personally rather see more tactical things added to eve than WIS though.
as for loot stuff, If it is the scanning site now I haven't tried it, have no interest since the change and I had a guy at one time trained just to scan things. so, no idea if people cared or not over it.
(watch me have all this wrong, but that is how I remember it, forgive the old guy if he missed something! ) |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
853
|
Posted - 2013.11.27 09:19:00 -
[39] - Quote
Debora Tsung wrote:Delt0r Garsk wrote:Please no compulsory WiS. I want to fly space ships, not dress up. Typical example of an average incarna whine post. "Oh noez! If ccp enables players to walk in stationz I won't be able to fly my cuddly widdle space ship anymoar..."
You do remembe rwhat happened whn incarna hit? Yes they FORCED us the stupid captain quarters. Reducing interface easyness of use, increasign massively the resource usage so we coudl see a horrible implemenntation of a waling room.
So yes, peopel ahve a reason to not want it.
CCP burned their chance with incarna, now they will only be able to try again when it can add meaningful gameplay, and I doubt we will see that before world of darkness is out. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
853
|
Posted - 2013.11.27 09:21:00 -
[40] - Quote
Radhe Amatin wrote:i believe CCP is working on adding new region of space , with a whole new array of player build stuff. I want that as fast as possible so ignore any kind of stupid walk in stations. Much more interesting content the WiS which adds nothing to eve gameplay.
that until they allow us to train combat kills and made a fight club in a remote station in low sec, where we can bet our ships. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
|
Tragot Gomndor
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
18
|
Posted - 2013.11.27 09:29:00 -
[41] - Quote
Delete all WiS content, make the client smaller, its already half as big as WoW. Pre-Trinity eve was better and smaller. 0.0 = GOONS = SAAAMMMMEEE!!!!1111222 |
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd CAStabouts
1209
|
Posted - 2013.11.27 12:26:00 -
[42] - Quote
Tragot Gomndor wrote:Delete all WiS content, make the client smaller, its already half as big as WoW. Pre-Trinity eve was better and smaller.
Are you going to personally compensate everyone for the fair market ISK value of their current avatar items? You know, things like my "Buy $300 worth of plex and get a bonus Silvershore" coat or all the stuff from the Collector's Edition or all the other rare-ish bonus items they've released?
No?
What about the christmas present items?
No again?
I didn't think so.
Hush. People are trying to be productive in this thread. |
Kabaos
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
94
|
Posted - 2013.11.27 12:47:00 -
[43] - Quote
Seranova Farreach wrote:itll probably be in Incarna 2.0 when they finish rebalanceing everything, introduceing modular posses, increaseing the amount of galaxies in eve (2014 perhaps), 2014 for highsec poco-loco and a whole lot of other more important stuff befor we get to show off our fashion sence in stations.. and then nex/aur will finally make sence :P
Yes AUR yet meaningless, it makes no sense to use it now. |
Kabaos
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
94
|
Posted - 2013.11.27 12:52:00 -
[44] - Quote
Tragot Gomndor wrote:Delete all WiS content, make the client smaller, its already half as big as WoW. Pre-Trinity eve was better and smaller.
CCP need to optimize CQ, but not to delete.
Yeah, pre-Trinity was smaller, but now we have much powerfull hardware, and all the games are bigger , from graphical and volumetric view.
Need to go forward and not remain on reached. |
Dav Varan
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
109
|
Posted - 2013.11.27 14:38:00 -
[45] - Quote
Is it even plausible atm ?
My reasonable card gets warm under the collar rendering 1 avatar.
rendering 10 forward in jita 4.4 it will melt.
|
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
724
|
Posted - 2013.11.27 14:41:00 -
[46] - Quote
Well WiS would certainly be cool, even more if it included WiS combat and all this stuff (I'm sure some of the Dust code could be used to speed up the developpement process)
But if you cannot create WiS content and space content at the same time, it's wiser to focus on space, and that's what CCP is doing.
I'm sad for the WiS part that could provide so much to eve and make it an ultimate sci-fi experience, but at the same time I understand their choice. G££ <= Me |
Kabaos
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
94
|
Posted - 2013.11.27 15:01:00 -
[47] - Quote
Altrue wrote:Well WiS would certainly be cool, even more if it included WiS combat and all this stuff (I'm sure some of the Dust code could be used to speed up the developpement process)
But if you cannot create WiS content and space content at the same time, it's wiser to focus on space, and that's what CCP is doing.
I'm sad for the WiS part that could provide so much to eve and make it an ultimate sci-fi experience, but at the same time I understand their choice.
They can create WIS content not at the same time with space part. |
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
723
|
Posted - 2013.11.27 15:07:00 -
[48] - Quote
Tragot Gomndor wrote:Delete all WiS content, make the client smaller, its already half as big as WoW. Pre-Trinity eve was better and smaller.
Lol, Trinity is not related to WiS.
Trinity (one of the best EVE expansion ever) was focused just on the graphic overhaul, graphic engine rewrite, shader model 3, retexturing for everything and also - for compatibilty with stone age computers - allowed to play in the previous lower graphic mode.
So, yes, of course the former client was smaller :)
We can also remove everything and save only the overwiew and an ASCII based UI and make EVE run under DOS with a micro-client size (as the client size was an issue...)
|
Scuzzy Logic
Midnight Elites Partners of Industrial Service and Salvage
72
|
Posted - 2013.11.27 15:43:00 -
[49] - Quote
Altrue wrote: But if you cannot create WiS content and space content at the same time, it's wiser to focus on space, and that's what CCP is doing. .
Actually most of the WiS devs and related art devs were moved to DUST and then to that dogfighting game CCP is half-baking instead of giving us decent content in the game we already like as if they intend for EVE to tank soon.
My advice to CCP is: Make DUST work on PS4, get WiS to an acceptable state, THEN you can allocate those devs on other projects.
CCP fails at management again, folks!
|
Scuzzy Logic
Midnight Elites Partners of Industrial Service and Salvage
72
|
Posted - 2013.11.27 15:46:00 -
[50] - Quote
Sura Sadiva wrote:[quote=Tragot Gomndor] We can also remove everything and save only the overwiew and an ASCII based UI and make EVE run under DOS with a micro-client size.
And thus the EVE thin-client for iPhone was born! |
|
Seranova Farreach
Lion Squadron
454
|
Posted - 2013.11.27 18:05:00 -
[51] - Quote
Radhe Amatin wrote:i believe CCP is working on adding new region of space , with a whole new array of player build stuff. I want that as fast as possible so ignore any kind of stupid walk in stations. Much more interesting content the WiS which adds nothing to eve gameplay.
i thought it was a whole new galaxy? |
Radhe Amatin
Shadow State Fatal Ascension
24
|
Posted - 2013.11.28 06:18:00 -
[52] - Quote
Seranova Farreach wrote:Radhe Amatin wrote:i believe CCP is working on adding new region of space , with a whole new array of player build stuff. I want that as fast as possible so ignore any kind of stupid walk in stations. Much more interesting content the WiS which adds nothing to eve gameplay. i thought it was a whole new galaxy?
not sure if a whole galaxy....eve has what 5000+ systems now its only one small part of a galaxy.... |
Kabaos
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
95
|
Posted - 2013.11.28 16:42:00 -
[53] - Quote
Scuzzy Logic wrote:Sura Sadiva wrote: We can also remove everything and save only the overwiew and an ASCII based UI and make EVE run under DOS with a micro-client size.
And thus the EVE thin-client for iPhone was born!
|
Kabaos
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
95
|
Posted - 2013.11.28 16:51:00 -
[54] - Quote
Some comments from DEV or GM ? |
scimichar
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
94
|
Posted - 2013.11.28 17:28:00 -
[55] - Quote
Kabaos wrote:Some comments from DEV or GM ?
http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1rhv8y/iama_ccp_rise_game_designer_for_eve_online_ama/cdnf4ls?context=3
|
Simc0m
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
106
|
Posted - 2013.11.28 17:40:00 -
[56] - Quote
I think they should put like 3 people on this project and have them put out small updates with every patch. Let's start by adding the ability to sit on my couch in captains quarters and play video poker with my buddies. |
Kabaos
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
97
|
Posted - 2013.11.29 00:15:00 -
[57] - Quote
Simc0m wrote:I think they should put like 3 people on this project and have them put out small updates with every patch. Let's start by adding the ability to sit on my couch in captains quarters and play video poker with my buddies.
agree. |
Kabaos
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
97
|
Posted - 2013.11.29 00:16:00 -
[58] - Quote
I have already read, I need on my a topic answers. |
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd CAStabouts
1244
|
Posted - 2013.11.29 02:31:00 -
[59] - Quote
Kabaos wrote:I have already read, I need on my a topic answers.
Well aren't you a pretty princess.
CCP has spoken with regards to Incarna. If you want better answers, re-watch "CCP Presents!" from FanFest 2013. Hilmar himself says that The Door is staying closed for the forseeable future.
|
Ronny Hugo
Dark Fusion Industries Limitless Inc.
23
|
Posted - 2013.11.29 08:14:00 -
[60] - Quote
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris wrote:I guess you were living in a cave for past several years so you know nothing about Jita riots and player protests against "features" Incarna had to offer. Weren't the protests against the loading station environment being compulsory, so docking took a long time with bad computers? I love walking in station, I wish we get a fireplace with a mantle on it so we can place all our ship L5 mastery trophies on it. But walking on station has to be more than just walking around, we need ideas for good sensical features. You know, why would you have to walk around instead of just pressing the market button or science and industry button etc? I'll work on that. |
|
Reiisha
Evolution
418
|
Posted - 2013.11.29 13:20:00 -
[61] - Quote
Ronny Hugo wrote:Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris wrote:I guess you were living in a cave for past several years so you know nothing about Jita riots and player protests against "features" Incarna had to offer. Weren't the protests against the loading station environment being compulsory, so docking took a long time with bad computers? I love walking in station, I wish we get a fireplace with a mantle on it so we can place all our ship L5 mastery trophies on it. But walking on station has to be more than just walking around, we need ideas for good sensical features. You know, why would you have to walk around instead of just pressing the market button or science and industry button etc? I'll work on that.
The riots were because of the 'Greed is good' newsletter, which detailed steps to create a cash shop in EVE. This is seemingly why CCP made the use of WiS mandatory, even though they promised it would remain optional. CCP also spent a lot of money on Dust and WoD while basically ignoring EVE development (much of WiS actually came from the WoD team). THIS is the reason for the riots.
Incarna itself was never (really) a problem. As long as it adds meaningful gameplay and immersion to EVE it's a very welcome addition.
If you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all... |
Nyancat Audeles
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
658
|
Posted - 2013.11.29 16:46:00 -
[62] - Quote
Dat atmospheric flight demo... WHERE IS MY WIS |
Eko Fromtv
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
74
|
Posted - 2013.11.29 17:13:00 -
[63] - Quote
Copied from another post I made recently on this topic:
"Support!
I have been saying this since day 1 of Incarna. It is the future. Too bad the vocal minority managed to shut down the development and somehow tied WiS and CQ with the lulzy aurum store.
For the ones that have missed it, read this:
http://www.ninveah.com/2013/10/incanra-second-chance.html
I will quote one very important sentence: "moving Eve beyond "just spaceships" into actual Sci Fi simulator."
Please CCP, continue the development of WiS. Some of us, MOST OF US want it. Don;t let a bunch of "muuuh spacehips!!!" 'tards spoil the whole experience for the rest of us. EVE is a game about space, science fiction immersion, spaceships, avatars, player interaction, walking in stations, etc." (Ice) Miner for life. |
Thufir Bezluden
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
6
|
Posted - 2013.11.29 17:59:00 -
[64] - Quote
you want volumetric lag? The Officer's Quarters are fine in DUST 514 where they belong and even there you leave room to battle area and deploy, you don't get to roam the depth of Nar Shadda. Time will tell if we get Captains Deck for ships before an interesting yet unnecessary walk-about. |
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association Independent Faction
306
|
Posted - 2013.11.29 19:47:00 -
[65] - Quote
I'd like to see this as well. This game really needs new content. After 9 years of same, I want something new,
The Most Interesting Player In Eve. |
Kabaos
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
99
|
Posted - 2013.11.29 21:04:00 -
[66] - Quote
Reiisha wrote:Ronny Hugo wrote:Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris wrote:I guess you were living in a cave for past several years so you know nothing about Jita riots and player protests against "features" Incarna had to offer. Weren't the protests against the loading station environment being compulsory, so docking took a long time with bad computers? I love walking in station, I wish we get a fireplace with a mantle on it so we can place all our ship L5 mastery trophies on it. But walking on station has to be more than just walking around, we need ideas for good sensical features. You know, why would you have to walk around instead of just pressing the market button or science and industry button etc? I'll work on that. The riots were because of the 'Greed is good' newsletter, which detailed steps to create a cash shop in EVE. This is seemingly why CCP made the use of WiS mandatory, even though they promised it would remain optional. CCP also spent a lot of money on Dust and WoD while basically ignoring EVE development (much of WiS actually came from the WoD team). THIS is the reason for the riots. Incarna itself was never (really) a problem. As long as it adds meaningful gameplay and immersion to EVE it's a very welcome addition.
Agree. |
Kabaos
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
99
|
Posted - 2013.11.29 21:06:00 -
[67] - Quote
Eko Fromtv wrote:Copied from another post I made recently on this topic: "Support! I have been saying this since day 1 of Incarna. It is the future. Too bad the vocal minority managed to shut down the development and somehow tied WiS and CQ with the lulzy aurum store. For the ones that have missed it, read this: http://www.ninveah.com/2013/10/incanra-second-chance.htmlI will quote one very important sentence: "moving Eve beyond "just spaceships" into actual Sci Fi simulator." Please CCP, continue the development of WiS. Some of us, MOST OF US want it. Don;t let a bunch of "muuuh spacehips!!!" 'tards spoil the whole experience for the rest of us. EVE is a game about space, science fiction immersion, spaceships, avatars, player interaction, walking in stations, etc."
Good comment, agree. |
Kabaos
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
99
|
Posted - 2013.11.29 21:08:00 -
[68] - Quote
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:I'd like to see this as well. This game really needs new content. After 9 years of same, I want something new,
Cool , yeah , I'm of the same opinion . |
Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2686
|
Posted - 2013.11.29 21:18:00 -
[69] - Quote
Reiisha wrote:The riots were because of the 'Greed is good' newsletter, which detailed steps to create a cash shop in EVE. This is seemingly why CCP made the use of WiS mandatory, even though they promised it would remain optional. CCP also spent a lot of money on Dust and WoD while basically ignoring EVE development (much of WiS actually came from the WoD team). THIS is the reason for the riots.
Incarna itself was never (really) a problem. As long as it adds meaningful gameplay and immersion to EVE it's a very welcome addition. The problem was that Greed Is Good and subsequent events made it clear that Incarna-era WiS was not intended as a platform for meaningful gameplay and immersion, but as a catwalk environment for players to show off their NeX Store purchases and nothing more. CCP: Not out to ruin your game, out to ruin their game. |
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd CAStabouts
1255
|
Posted - 2013.11.29 21:40:00 -
[70] - Quote
Scatim Helicon wrote:The problem was that Greed Is Good and subsequent events made it clear that Incarna-era WiS was not intended as a platform for meaningful gameplay and immersion, but as a catwalk environment for players to show off their NeX Store purchases and nothing more.
I'm a model, you know what I mean, and I do my little turn on the catwalk.
|
|
Ronny Hugo
Dark Fusion Industries Limitless Inc.
23
|
Posted - 2013.11.30 05:33:00 -
[71] - Quote
Thufir Bezluden wrote: you want volumetric lag? The Officer's Quarters are fine in DUST 514 where they belong and even there you leave room to battle area and deploy, you don't get to roam the depth of Nar Shadda. Time will tell if we get Captains Deck for ships before an interesting yet unnecessary walk-about.
So what we can agree on is that WiS need a purpose that makes sense. Features for WiS anyone? |
Kabaos
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
99
|
Posted - 2013.11.30 10:06:00 -
[72] - Quote
Scatim Helicon wrote:Reiisha wrote:The riots were because of the 'Greed is good' newsletter, which detailed steps to create a cash shop in EVE. This is seemingly why CCP made the use of WiS mandatory, even though they promised it would remain optional. CCP also spent a lot of money on Dust and WoD while basically ignoring EVE development (much of WiS actually came from the WoD team). THIS is the reason for the riots.
Incarna itself was never (really) a problem. As long as it adds meaningful gameplay and immersion to EVE it's a very welcome addition. The problem was that Greed Is Good and subsequent events made it clear that Incarna-era WiS was not intended as a platform for meaningful gameplay and immersion, but as a catwalk environment for players to show off their NeX Store purchases and nothing more.
I do not think that they did represent more than 3 years to buy clothes from NeX store. I think that they want to do WIS, but projects like Dust and WOD pushed WIS, what is wrong ..Same promises that were WIS will be released before DUST 514, but only came CQ . |
Captain Meric
Angry Happy fun times
2
|
Posted - 2013.11.30 19:46:00 -
[73] - Quote
Ronny Hugo wrote:
So what we can agree on is that WiS need a purpose that makes sense. Features for WiS anyone?
well a little list of Wis Content for players
1 - Corporation offices for those of us who buy them, a bigger version of it if the station has our headquarters
2 - Storefronts for Sellers A. We need to introduce something here for sellers to distinguish their items from others in the market place. Such as quality, paint jobs, something. B. These also need to be added into market as well (I think something like this was said before but if not here it is ) C. An ability to hold up the store owner.
3 - ability to Shoot someone as was in the trailer (with a police interaction if you do it in sight of them so something of a stealth mechanic
4 - ability to hire those dust guys for bodyguards if we have to walk in stations to prevent assassins from being able to get at the pod pilot (yes make these dust guy stand around for a bit like we all have to wait around for an op of course they are going to ask for good pay )
5 - low sec has a much or as little security in there stations as the FW controlling wants to invest in station security (this should also go to station Guns and such as well )
6 - Quick walk or such so you don't have to go walk 30 minutes to get an item an the immersion but aren't stuck in station when all u want to do is resupply quickly.
7 - Everything in stations for the most part need to be created by players (player ran game for the most part )
8 - be able to skip all this and keep the interface we have
Some things not to have
Animals in the NEX store to buy
Walking around in the environment for no gain but to show off how you look (I kinda miss the old pictures of our toons, must be my old bitter vet talking )
Really what is the point on working on this? if WoD comes out and the infuse it into eve then great. IF not just get rid of the captain's quarters and work on other ideas. This has to be a world for players not for the Aurmum store for me to care about it. It w Angry Happy Fun time is recuiting pilots wanting to take over the world! Contact me if you want details and all the fun stuff!
EVE is all about fighting, fighting for the best prices, the best missions, the best systems, then to keep what you own. Fight on POD Pilot! |
Kabaos
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
99
|
Posted - 2013.12.01 16:03:00 -
[74] - Quote
Ronny Hugo wrote:Thufir Bezluden wrote: you want volumetric lag? The Officer's Quarters are fine in DUST 514 where they belong and even there you leave room to battle area and deploy, you don't get to roam the depth of Nar Shadda. Time will tell if we get Captains Deck for ships before an interesting yet unnecessary walk-about.
So what we can agree on is that WiS need a purpose that makes sense. Features for WiS anyone?
Already so much of CCP has been determined. |
Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2692
|
Posted - 2013.12.01 18:05:00 -
[75] - Quote
Kabaos wrote:Scatim Helicon wrote:The problem was that Greed Is Good and subsequent events made it clear that Incarna-era WiS was not intended as a platform for meaningful gameplay and immersion, but as a catwalk environment for players to show off their NeX Store purchases and nothing more. I do not think that they did represent more than 3 years to buy clothes from NeX store. I think that they want to do WIS, but projects like Dust and WOD pushed WIS, what is wrong ..Same promises that were WIS will be released before DUST 514, but only came CQ . If you want to see where the priorities lay with CCP, note that by the time Incarna was released, everything from that 3 years of development, even the storefronts and corp offices and socialisation which CCP had talked about as the key purpose of the project from the early days, had been stripped out.
What was the one feature in the end that CCP considered too important to cut? The NeX Store.
Note also that the efforts to develop actual gameplay didn't begin until 2012. CCP: Not out to ruin your game, out to ruin their game. |
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd CAStabouts
1263
|
Posted - 2013.12.01 18:52:00 -
[76] - Quote
I was pretty irritated myself that after all the walking around on a Gallente promenade, after the modular shops and the interesting minigames that could be wagered on with ISK, we ended up with just one room and a locked-shut door.
Seriously, what's with that? |
Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2692
|
Posted - 2013.12.01 19:35:00 -
[77] - Quote
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:I was pretty irritated myself that after all the walking around on a Gallente promenade, after the modular shops and the interesting minigames that could be wagered on with ISK, we ended up with just one room and a locked-shut door.
Seriously, what's with that? That's CCP's management choking on their own hubris, thinking that everything they touch would turn to gold forever, that its playerbase were gullible fools who would fall over each other to buy monocles and space pants with real money for their spaceship characters if Eve just had a shop in which to buy them, and that even the simplest gameplay content was an unnecessary extravagance for a game expansion. CCP: Not out to ruin your game, out to ruin their game. |
Stan Durden
Traverse Holdings Setting The Universe on Fire
2
|
Posted - 2013.12.01 19:53:00 -
[78] - Quote
WiS is a waste of resources, plain and simple. In an ideal world it would happen. But this is not an ideal world. This is a world where SovNull has still not been adequately balanced, where corp roles and pos ops are still in desperate need of repair, and where time spent developing new content would be much better used in developing and expanding what is unique about Eve.
Adding WiS does not add something new, it only adds something we have all seen before in plenty of other games... to Eve. Eve does not need to focus on what it could have that many other games already have, it needs to focus on what it has and can provide that no other game is offering. |
Kabaos
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
100
|
Posted - 2013.12.02 14:16:00 -
[79] - Quote
Stan Durden wrote:WiS is a waste of resources, plain and simple. In an ideal world it would happen. But this is not an ideal world. This is a world where SovNull has still not been adequately balanced, where corp roles and pos ops are still in desperate need of repair, and where time spent developing new content would be much better used in developing and expanding what is unique about Eve.
Adding WiS does not add something new, it only adds something we have all seen before in plenty of other games... to Eve. Eve does not need to focus on what it could have that many other games already have, it needs to focus on what it has and can provide that no other game is offering.
By your logic they in vain released Dust 514, CQ, and some other addons, then EVE don't need to add anything new let it remain as it is- this is nonsense! If you want to have a full Sci-Fi, here must work much.Here it is necessary to add a lot of innovations, while I think you need to include more interesting polls that EVE players. But not like you suggested-like PVP or PVE, marauders must have bastion or not, what you like to do at the station: to sell, produce, communicate, blah blah.
Here's my suggestion poll http://www.rupoll.com/lcavvutysp.html |
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
1873
|
Posted - 2013.12.02 14:41:00 -
[80] - Quote
The only thing that I would like to see for WiS is a Board Room, make it an isk sink, charge a per use fee equal to that of renting an office in that station, but for 24hrs.
EVE has tons of politics, and a meeting/board room would add a new level to the political negations. Novis Initiis is Recruting-á --á Ideas for Drone Improvement |
|
Kabaos
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
100
|
Posted - 2013.12.02 14:53:00 -
[81] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:The only thing that I would like to see for WiS is a Board Room, make it an isk sink, charge a per use fee equal to that of renting an office in that station, but for 24hrs.
EVE has tons of politics, and a meeting/board room would add a new level to the political negations.
Cool, agree. |
Terranid Meester
Tactical Assault and Recon Unit
187
|
Posted - 2013.12.02 16:00:00 -
[82] - Quote
I don't see CCP saying anywhere 'I promise such and such'. |
Cpt Tirel
75
|
Posted - 2013.12.02 17:08:00 -
[83] - Quote
Terranid Meester wrote:I don't see CCP saying anywhere 'I promise such and such'.
When an MMO developer release a new type of content to their game, they are responsible for updating it sooner or later, that is what the monthly subscription is for.
If the content is not used by anyone, and nobody cares, then fine leave it.
The content released in Incarna is used by every Eve player that ever made use of the character creator, yet it has never been updated. People post about it daily here on the forums, yet nothing happens. not a SINGLE thing, it is almost ridiculous. |
Jeanluca
Industrial Accidents Incorporated
0
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 06:46:00 -
[84] - Quote
Throw some booze and an outside view in my captain quarters! |
Bobby Frutt
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
8
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 06:54:00 -
[85] - Quote
Walking in station is not PVP. All CCP cares about is making a game that allows people to shoot other people's ships in a better manner. If they could only pull their heads out of their butts, they would see having immersive elements like hanging out at the bars in station would really help the PVP.
Imagine you're hanging out a bar in Dodixie with your mates; a bunch of Gallentes. Another clan walks into the bar and low and behold, it's some notorious Caldari traders. You exchange some heated words as the barkeep pours more drinks and you decide to take it outside. You agree to a "bar fight" which is a new mechanic added, and the game undocks you both at the same time with an aggression timer to prevent dock up.
I know the above idea is absolutely ridiculous, I'm just illustrating the different ways PVP could actually have meaning by adding immersive elements to the game.
CCP wants to homogenize this game into a giant routine, and it's getting annoying. Look at exploration. It used to be "finding the unknown". Now it's a routine. PVP, yet another routine.
I want to play a fun immersive game CCP, not do routines. |
Kabaos
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
103
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 18:19:00 -
[86] - Quote
Cpt Tirel wrote:Terranid Meester wrote:I don't see CCP saying anywhere 'I promise such and such'. When an MMO developer release a new type of content to their game, they are responsible for updating it sooner or later, that is what the monthly subscription is for. If the content is not used by anyone, and nobody cares, then fine leave it. The content released in Incarna is used by every Eve player that ever made use of the character creator, yet it has never been updated. People post about it daily here on the forums, yet nothing happens. not a SINGLE thing, it is almost ridiculous.
Yeah, agree. |
Arthur Aihaken
The.VOID
752
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 18:41:00 -
[87] - Quote
Pretty sure it's already been statedGǪ shouldn't we be looking for ways to encourage people to, wellGǪ you knowGǪ undock? I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Kabaos
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
103
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 18:50:00 -
[88] - Quote
Bobby Frutt wrote:Walking in station is not PVP. All CCP cares about is making a game that allows people to shoot other people's ships in a better manner. If they could only pull their heads out of their butts, they would see having immersive elements like hanging out at the bars in station would really help the PVP.
Imagine you're hanging out a bar in Dodixie with your mates; a bunch of Gallentes. Another clan walks into the bar and low and behold, it's some notorious Caldari traders. You exchange some heated words as the barkeep pours more drinks and you decide to take it outside. You agree to a "bar fight" which is a new mechanic added, and the game undocks you both at the same time with an aggression timer to prevent dock up.
I know the above idea is absolutely ridiculous, I'm just illustrating the different ways PVP could actually have meaning by adding immersive elements to the game.
CCP wants to homogenize this game into a giant routine, and it's getting annoying. Look at exploration. It used to be "finding the unknown". Now it's a routine. PVP, yet another routine.
I want to play a fun immersive game CCP, not do routines.
To get away from this routine should be a place where you can contemplate the wonderful views space to think and dream. |
Bischopt
Arbitrary Repossession
398
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 19:26:00 -
[89] - Quote
I'll just say that I really don't care for WiS and I do have some problems with it.
1. When CCP were first making it, they neglected the rest of Eve for what, 2 years? The only good thing about Incarna (the expansion) was that it caused an uproar and made CCP realise their mistakes.
2. WiS was released when it was half-finished. It added nothing in terms of actual gameplay while giving CCP an excuse to implement the disgustingly horrible Noble Exhange store (NeX) and AUR. Basically incarna was a tool to introduce microtransactions and useless vanity items.
3. For a while it seemed like CCP wanted to make WiS the default option in Eve. Meaning you'd always go to captain's quarters instead of your hangar. Forcing WiS on the players was a mistake and there was protesting (not the jita riots but still).
4. I'm pretty sure #4 exists but I can't think of it right now.
Bottom line: I don't want CCP to spend any more money or resources on WiS. "Flying in space" which is more commonly known as Eve Online is more important and should have CCP's full attention. |
Kabaos
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
104
|
Posted - 2013.12.12 12:32:00 -
[90] - Quote
Bischopt wrote:I'll just say that I really don't care for WiS and I do have some problems with it.
1. When CCP were first making it, they neglected the rest of Eve for what, 2 years? The only good thing about Incarna (the expansion) was that it caused an uproar and made CCP realise their mistakes.
2. WiS was released when it was half-finished. It added nothing in terms of actual gameplay while giving CCP an excuse to implement the disgustingly horrible Noble Exhange store (NeX) and AUR. Basically incarna was a tool to introduce microtransactions and useless vanity items.
3. For a while it seemed like CCP wanted to make WiS the default option in Eve. Meaning you'd always go to captain's quarters instead of your hangar. Forcing WiS on the players was a mistake and there was protesting (not the jita riots but still).
4. I'm pretty sure #4 exists but I can't think of it right now.
Bottom line: I don't want CCP to spend any more money or resources on WiS. "Flying in space" which is more commonly known as Eve Online is more important and should have CCP's full attention.
But I want that CCP develop WIS than other project like WOD, which not connected with EVE Online.! |
|
Allyssa Lowell
Antisocial Tendencies
1
|
Posted - 2013.12.22 05:59:00 -
[91] - Quote
In my opinion the best way to go forward with Walking in Stations (WiS) is to integrate slowly. for instance have the exit door in the current captain's quarters go to the corporation's office (if there is one in that station) and have a set number of available offices on the station, or to a private lounge area for your corp members if there is not. and then slowly branch from there. adding a concourse level at some point, and being as we are talking about a station, these can be instanced because it is a space station, not open space.
local chat could then be channel switched (the same as moving from one solar system to another) to your given concourse, club, pub, office, or lounge.
if your alliance has an office on board then you could go to a meeting there as well.
these are just some of my ideas of how WiS could progress, albeit slowly. I do not think it feasible, or wise to add all the things they want to do with WiS simultaneously. but giving more options than just the captain's quarters would be a decent start. being as something like this could be instanced, it would take a lot of lag off the game servers, however, it is unknown what kind of hardware changes would eventually be required for this action.
food for thought.
|
Scuzzy Logic
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
89
|
Posted - 2013.12.23 01:10:00 -
[92] - Quote
Bump for interest. We got all the bad of WiS, now give us the good you promised, CCP! |
Kabaos
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
106
|
Posted - 2014.01.04 16:52:00 -
[93] - Quote
Scuzzy Logic wrote:Bump for interest. We got all the bad of WiS, now give us the good you promised, CCP!
Yeah. |
Kabaos
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
106
|
Posted - 2014.01.04 16:52:00 -
[94] - Quote
Allyssa Lowell wrote:In my opinion the best way to go forward with Walking in Stations (WiS) is to integrate slowly. for instance have the exit door in the current captain's quarters go to the corporation's office (if there is one in that station) and have a set number of available offices on the station, or to a private lounge area for your corp members if there is not. and then slowly branch from there. adding a concourse level at some point, and being as we are talking about a station, these can be instanced because it is a space station, not open space.
local chat could then be channel switched (the same as moving from one solar system to another) to your given concourse, club, pub, office, or lounge.
if your alliance has an office on board then you could go to a meeting there as well.
these are just some of my ideas of how WiS could progress, albeit slowly. I do not think it feasible, or wise to add all the things they want to do with WiS simultaneously. but giving more options than just the captain's quarters would be a decent start. being as something like this could be instanced, it would take a lot of lag off the game servers, however, it is unknown what kind of hardware changes would eventually be required for this action.
food for thought.
Good idea. |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
883
|
Posted - 2014.01.04 23:38:00 -
[95] - Quote
Delt0r Garsk wrote:Please no compulsory WiS. I want to fly space ships, not dress up.
Yet you took the trouble to create your character, dress him up, create your avatar and create a nice picture for your profile. You already play dress up! Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
883
|
Posted - 2014.01.04 23:43:00 -
[96] - Quote
Bobby Frutt wrote:Walking in station is not PVP. All CCP cares about is making a game that allows people to shoot other people's ships in a better manner. If they could only pull their heads out of their butts, they would see having immersive elements like hanging out at the bars in station would really help the PVP.
Imagine you're hanging out a bar in Dodixie with your mates; a bunch of Gallentes. Another clan walks into the bar and low and behold, it's some notorious Caldari traders. You exchange some heated words as the barkeep pours more drinks and you decide to take it outside. You agree to a "bar fight" which is a new mechanic added, and the game undocks you both at the same time with an aggression timer to prevent dock up.
I know the above idea is absolutely ridiculous, I'm just illustrating the different ways PVP could actually have meaning by adding immersive elements to the game.
CCP wants to homogenize this game into a giant routine, and it's getting annoying. Look at exploration. It used to be "finding the unknown". Now it's a routine. PVP, yet another routine.
I want to play a fun immersive game CCP, not do routines.
Or you could settle your score another way, by combating each other in a modified version of the hacking mini game, the loser forfeits the ship they came in on or the contents of their hanger or every penny of isk. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
75
|
Posted - 2014.01.05 22:29:00 -
[97] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:Delt0r Garsk wrote:Please no compulsory WiS. I want to fly space ships, not dress up. Yet you took the trouble to create your character, dress him up, create your avatar and create a nice picture for your profile. You already play dress up! Turns out you can't create a character otherwise. I used the random buttons. |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
891
|
Posted - 2014.01.06 01:17:00 -
[98] - Quote
Delt0r Garsk wrote:Little Dragon Khamez wrote:Delt0r Garsk wrote:Please no compulsory WiS. I want to fly space ships, not dress up. Yet you took the trouble to create your character, dress him up, create your avatar and create a nice picture for your profile. You already play dress up! Turns out you can't create a character otherwise. I used the random buttons.
It worked out well for you., you must have posed it though. Don't you identify with your character in game though? Does your character mean anything to you at all? Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1016
|
Posted - 2014.01.06 09:29:00 -
[99] - Quote
not again. LEts be simple. players revolted agaisnt incarna and made CCP loose thousands of subscriptions. CCP listened and basically scrapped anything not related to space ships. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
75
|
Posted - 2014.01.06 10:07:00 -
[100] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote: It worked out well for you., you must have posed it though. Don't you identify with your character in game though? Does your character mean anything to you at all?
I wouldn't say that. I found it annoying to the point the first time i just didn't bother joining. I would have played eve a good 3-4 months sooner without it.
I don't want to wait 5 min each time i undock for the "walk down the hall and hop in your pod" animation. I don't want to have some crappy virtual bar where... where nothing really going to happen since we all do interact with chat channels, voice coms etc. Its like trying to force the meta game to be in game. It won't work. So then is 99% cosmetic. At which point what is the point.
However before you all flame away, My requirement is that it is not *mandatory*. If you want to wait 5min every time you undock, or 10 min to find something in the market because you like second life in space, be my guest. Just don't make me do it. |
|
Burning Bob
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 21:23:00 -
[101] - Quote
Delt0r Garsk wrote:Little Dragon Khamez wrote: It worked out well for you., you must have posed it though. Don't you identify with your character in game though? Does your character mean anything to you at all?
I wouldn't say that. I found it annoying to the point the first time i just didn't bother joining. I would have played eve a good 3-4 months sooner without it. I don't want to wait 5 min each time i undock for the "walk down the hall and hop in your pod" animation. I don't want to have some crappy virtual bar where... where nothing really going to happen since we all do interact with chat channels, voice coms etc. Its like trying to force the meta game to be in game. It won't work. So then is 99% cosmetic. At which point what is the point. However before you all flame away, My requirement is that it is not *mandatory*. If you want to wait 5min every time you undock, or 10 min to find something in the market because you like second life in space, be my guest. Just don't make me do it.
Who the hell ever said you had to? Eve takes time. Ship spinning is boring and pacing in a room isn't any better. I want a better distraction than neurotically checking things or tabing out. I just want them to finish what they started. Let us go to bars or casinos or what ever. Let us talk to the dust bunnies in person. Give us a distraction from pacing or spinning... |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
951
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 00:30:00 -
[102] - Quote
Wis, ironically might save dust if we can actually meet and hire dust bunnies or watch their matches from the position of a map table. Just like atmospheric flight might help dust if we could strafe the battlefield or watch it from orbit providing intel. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
84
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 00:44:00 -
[103] - Quote
Burning Bob wrote: .... Ship spinning is boring and pacing in a room isn't any better. I want a better distraction than neurotically checking things or tabing out. I just want them to finish what they started. Let us go to bars or casinos or what ever. Let us talk to the dust bunnies in person. Give us a distraction from pacing or spinning...
If your spending a lots of time spinning ships and just generally logged in doing nothing but waiting for skill ques. Your doing it wrong.
|
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
1778
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 01:55:00 -
[104] - Quote
Delt0r Garsk wrote:Burning Bob wrote: .... Ship spinning is boring and pacing in a room isn't any better. I want a better distraction than neurotically checking things or tabing out. I just want them to finish what they started. Let us go to bars or casinos or what ever. Let us talk to the dust bunnies in person. Give us a distraction from pacing or spinning...
If your spending a lots of time spinning ships and just generally logged in doing nothing but waiting for skill ques. Your doing it wrong.
It can safely be said that there are times when it is disadvantageous - or even forbidden by corp/alliance policy - to undock rather than stay in a station.
I don't know what those times are since I don't ever do that, but I've heard rumors and stories. |
Atuesuel
League of xX420BLAZEITSWAGGOTXx. Nulli Secunda
1
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 03:48:00 -
[105] - Quote
I would sugest buying this game
you can all ready walk in a hanger and its still just an alpha
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/about-the-game |
Burning Bob
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 13:49:00 -
[106] - Quote
Delt0r Garsk wrote:Burning Bob wrote: .... Ship spinning is boring and pacing in a room isn't any better. I want a better distraction than neurotically checking things or tabing out. I just want them to finish what they started. Let us go to bars or casinos or what ever. Let us talk to the dust bunnies in person. Give us a distraction from pacing or spinning...
If your spending a lots of time spinning ships and just generally logged in doing nothing but waiting for skill ques. Your doing it wrong. You've obviously never been in a 0.0 corp. There are times when you can't do anything but wait in station, some times for hours at a time.
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:Wis, ironically might save dust if we can actually meet and hire dust bunnies or watch their matches from the position of a map table. Just like atmospheric flight might help dust if we could strafe the battlefield or watch it from orbit providing intel.
I wouldn't mind watching matches at a bar and placing bets on the bunnies. I don't know about atmospheric flight though. Not because I don't like the idea but because we can't control the ships beyond mouse clicks. |
Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
84
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 23:09:00 -
[107] - Quote
I'm in a WH corp and spend time in nullsec. When i need to wait. I do something in RL. WiS is hardly a fix for waiting for something to happen. Esp if it has no meaning. Really how is alt-tabbing to second life a problem anyway? How many games should eve be? |
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
3905
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 01:28:00 -
[108] - Quote
Some time ago, back when the captains quarters first appeared, there was a big commotion about things which were not directly connected to walking in stations.
Walking in stations, with the captains quarters being released as the default environment, was the cause of some outcry at the same time as rumors about aur transactions.
The Aur side, which was the actual problem, implied that genuine advantages could be bought. This never actually took place, but the rumor mill cranked it out because of some supposed office memos.
Now, because these had the bad luck of being at the same time, they splashed bad mojo on each other. Many of the WoD haters claimed funds from EVE were being misspent, and WiS was the wasted effect of that.
This was a rather pathetic level of confusion, since: A: The funds EVE earns belongs to CCP B: The normal devs never stopped working on the game C: Assuming devs working on WiS could have been retasked for the regular game, assumed a staggering amount. Devs on this level tend to be specialized, and this was like expecting a plumber to be able to fix your car by comparison.
But then, perception and reality only match where it is convenient, as any marketing person can point out.
The truth is, EVE players have nothing to lose if WiS is developed. The regular support devs won't be interrupted fixing bugs, since they don't get involved with things like this. Done correctly, it will be like captains quarters. A choice made while docked, and not something impacting game play outside of stations.
And never the default load in setting. Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence So Local Chat vanished, now what? |
Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
85
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 09:31:00 -
[109] - Quote
Nikk Narrel wrote: C: Assuming devs working on WiS could have been retasked for the regular game, assumed a staggering amount. Devs on this level tend to be specialized, and this was like expecting a plumber to be able to fix your car by comparison.
Clearly you know nothing about programming. It is nothing like that "specialized" and when it comes to maintaining code you typically work on any code that has the bugs. You don't have "fields" within programming and dev work.
I have worked for telecos, banks, game companies, sat nav companies done contract work in just about every area. I have needed to do graphics work, fairly advanced math, boring business logic applications, billing systems, switching code, etc.
I am pretty typical for a developer with the exception that i have some education in advance math and physics. |
Cypherdog
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
32
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 11:06:00 -
[110] - Quote
Nikk Narrel wrote: The truth is, EVE players have nothing to lose if WiS is developed. The regular support devs won't be interrupted fixing bugs, since they don't get involved with things like this. Done correctly, it will be like captains quarters. A choice made while docked, and not something impacting game play outside of stations. And never the default load in setting.
I couldn't agree more. We have nothing to loose or fear from this. Actually, I suspect that quite a few of those who were involved in the Jita protests are now regretting what they did because they stopped this game from reaching it's full potential and the vision CCP had for it. Not to mention the people who lost their jobs. Their intransigence will prove costly, because that gap EVE was going to fill, is going to be used by Star Citizen and future Space Sims to snatch a big chunk of players. CCP will feel the hit, but I doubt they'll be bothered. Perhaps they believe to be the undisputed perpetual emperors of Space games. |
|
marVLs
564
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 12:10:00 -
[111] - Quote
Well You know, cool things are only for drunk dudes on Fanfest not for development
|
Derka McDerk
Republic University Minmatar Republic
7
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 14:15:00 -
[112] - Quote
I for one am looking forward greatly to WIS getting more love. The atmospheric flight video was also new to me. I'm still a rather new player so I have missed a lot of the drama and what not surrounding the initial release of WIS etc, but I think its high time to invest time in the development of these awesome features again, which then would help create a better feel of immersion.
If I'm not totally wrong EVE has been described as a "reality". Being able to exist in the world as something more than a mere spaceship is a big deal. Think about the in-station game, the political and economical possibilities etc.
As for the atmospheric flight, it would again increase the immersion factor. Currently I find it rather dumb that I can fly straight into a planet/moon and just go straight through it. It totally destroys immersion.
There are no doubt issues in the game that need resolving. Many of the old systems that need reworking etc. My greatest hopes and expectations for the game however are still improved WIS and after seeing the atmospheric flight video that as well. |
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
3905
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 15:43:00 -
[113] - Quote
Delt0r Garsk wrote:Nikk Narrel wrote: C: Assuming devs working on WiS could have been retasked for the regular game, assumed a staggering amount. Devs on this level tend to be specialized, and this was like expecting a plumber to be able to fix your car by comparison.
Clearly you know nothing about programming. It is nothing like that "specialized" and when it comes to maintaining code you typically work on any code that has the bugs. You don't have "fields" within programming and dev work. I have worked for telecos, banks, game companies, sat nav companies done contract work in just about every area. I have needed to do graphics work, fairly advanced math, boring business logic applications, billing systems, switching code, etc. I am pretty typical for a developer with the exception that i have some education in advance math and physics. Wrong. Your suggestion that I must lack awareness in this area, therefore meaning my argument is worthless, falls utterly flat.
I am the primary database admin for a company, where the data, manipulation of such, and programming to utilize it, are the primary functions of this company.
The devs who work bug fixes are familiar with the coding of this game. They know where to look, what to check, and quite often have a pretty good idea what needs to be tweaked to fix issues. Without this experience with the game they already have, they would be less effective, and counterproductive to switch out with anyone lacking this same experience.
Now, if we make the leap that everyone has the exact same skill set, (ridiculous, but sure, let's play that game here), this experience divide by itself is more than enough to isolate the current dev pool from anyone not sharing this experience with previous game elements.
Now, WiS doesn't use this code. Familiarity with it simply is not helpful in a meaningful and significant way. Different graphic engine functions are used in this other environment, different variables affect interaction, heck, beyond the name of the characters, they have trivial levels of common details.
Swapping devs from the bug-fixing pool and the WiS pool would be a setback to BOTH teams, making them effectively specialized. Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence So Local Chat vanished, now what? |
Notorious Fellon
Republic University Minmatar Republic
126
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 16:37:00 -
[114] - Quote
Nikk Narrel wrote:Delt0r Garsk wrote:Nikk Narrel wrote: C: Assuming devs working on WiS could have been retasked for the regular game, assumed a staggering amount. Devs on this level tend to be specialized, and this was like expecting a plumber to be able to fix your car by comparison.
Clearly you know nothing about programming. It is nothing like that "specialized" and when it comes to maintaining code you typically work on any code that has the bugs. You don't have "fields" within programming and dev work. I have worked for telecos, banks, game companies, sat nav companies done contract work in just about every area. I have needed to do graphics work, fairly advanced math, boring business logic applications, billing systems, switching code, etc. I am pretty typical for a developer with the exception that i have some education in advance math and physics. Wrong. Your suggestion that I must lack awareness in this area, therefore meaning my argument is worthless, falls utterly flat. I am the primary database admin for a company, where the data, manipulation of such, and programming to utilize it, are the primary functions of this company. The devs who work bug fixes are familiar with the coding of this game. They know where to look, what to check, and quite often have a pretty good idea what needs to be tweaked to fix issues. Without this experience with the game they already have, they would be less effective, and counterproductive to switch out with anyone lacking this same experience. Now, if we make the leap that everyone has the exact same skill set, (ridiculous, but sure, let's play that game here), this experience divide by itself is more than enough to isolate the current dev pool from anyone not sharing this experience with previous game elements. Now, WiS doesn't use this code. Familiarity with it simply is not helpful in a meaningful and significant way. Different graphic engine functions are used in this other environment, different variables affect interaction, heck, beyond the name of the characters, they have trivial levels of common details. Swapping devs from the bug-fixing pool and the WiS pool would be a setback to BOTH teams, making them effectively specialized.
Both of you presented extremes and both are ridiculous. |
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
3905
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 16:52:00 -
[115] - Quote
Notorious Fellon wrote:Both of you presented extremes and both are ridiculous. There is nothing extreme in suggesting experience has value.
Nor is defending my opinion as being meaningful, as I do have experience in areas similar enough to be significant.
Quite simply, many fields become specialized when the depth reaches a point where a single person cannot realistically learn the details involved in every aspect of it. Programming is no different, and suggesting that those who work on these projects can be swapped out like mass produced clones is disingenuous.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence So Local Chat vanished, now what? |
Burning Bob
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2014.01.24 04:29:00 -
[116] - Quote
Nikk Narrel wrote:Notorious Fellon wrote:Both of you presented extremes and both are ridiculous. There is nothing extreme in suggesting experience has value. Nor is defending my opinion as being meaningful, as I do have experience in areas similar enough to be significant. Quite simply, many fields become specialized when the depth reaches a point where a single person cannot realistically learn the details involved in every aspect of it. Programming is no different, and suggesting that those who work on these projects can be swapped out like mass produced clones is disingenuous. Not to mention that different engines have different coding. While you may know Cryengine like the back of your hand, you may know nothing about the Unreal engine. Plus dumping unfamiliar people into a project often mucks up the program worse than just using the few people you have. Most pilots either don't care or want WiS. mostly leaning toward don't care either way. The protest in no way was toward WiS. It was an appropriate over reaction to even a hint of PTW. I'm sure players wouldn't mind CCP adding more station stuff provided it doesn't take over an expansion. Since its not part of major game play it needs to stay on the sidelines. |
Eveliy
Coronize
22
|
Posted - 2014.01.24 11:33:00 -
[117] - Quote
I need to agree with Nikk Narrel.
I am a software engineer and specialization becomes a very important factor in times of agile development and techniques like scrum. Those techniques often define that every team member needs to be a specialist and only part-time generalist. I do, however, have to admit that I don't know what development methods CCP uses. If they use very specialized staff they are indeed limited.
to topic:
I do not know how far CCP has gone with Incarna regarding code. They could only have done the client side which would mean that only displaying the quarters and everything regarding connection to the server via the interfaces of the gadgets and displays in the quarter and the controls they provide has been done (also client side as they already existed before). If that's the case there is no server-side tracking of a player's positions and actions in station which would be the monster part of the work. (I know that all the graphics and vfx stuff will also consume a lot of time) I'm pretty sure that they have something like basic station layouts and all that graphics stuff lieing around on their internal asset servers (at least they had some for the demo a few years ago) but that doesn't help at all in this case.
personal opinion: If they find the time and resources to go on with WiS development I wouldn't mind. Already waiting for a very long time and aware that I will have to wait for even longer.
@Burning Bob
It doesn't take too long to learn the framework or API an engine provides regarding the coding. |
Lephia DeGrande
Luxembourg Space Union
191
|
Posted - 2014.01.24 11:47:00 -
[118] - Quote
I Never was a big Fan of WIS, simply because i fail to see why we need cosy and blinky ingame Facebook while Space is still disturbing empty and lifeless. (Beyond Space like emptiness of course)
Edit: I would rather ask "Why is there still no comets, real Asteroid Belts in Space or why do we have over 5000+ Systems with only one Sun or why do we have still no physics or why cant we not use structures to hide and cover?" |
Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
88
|
Posted - 2014.01.25 14:17:00 -
[119] - Quote
So your argument that programers are very specialized, so it cost nothing for EVE online to be generic? As in second life in space as well as space combat game.
A little 101 economics. Everything has an opportunity cost. Spending money on specialized developer's for your second life clone is money not spent on developers for other parts of eve.
Your argument that because developers are so specialized it cost nothing is stupid. Its more expensive and an even bigger waste of money since this is now a bunch of workers who can never work on the core game if needed. |
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
3915
|
Posted - 2014.01.25 15:08:00 -
[120] - Quote
Delt0r Garsk wrote:So your argument that programers are very specialized, so it cost nothing for EVE online to be generic? As in second life in space as well as space combat game.
A little 101 economics. Everything has an opportunity cost. Spending money on specialized developer's for your second life clone is money not spent on developers for other parts of eve.
Your argument that because developers are so specialized it cost nothing is stupid. Its more expensive and an even bigger waste of money since this is now a bunch of workers who can never work on the core game if needed. Delt0r, you are drifting off topic here.
I am saying two things.
First, the developers who fix bugs get better with each task, since they have the opportunity to learn details about the coding which can make future tweaks easier with similar issues. Same logic that shows a person stops needing a map and directions once they are familiar with an area when traveling.
Second, you approach this from a general practitioner view, where everyone knows a little about everything, and needs to research specific details when necessary. A specialized coder still may know a little about everything, but they have already researched and learned about one aspect more in depth, giving them an advantage dealing with this area.
It is not always practical to learn everything about all possible aspects, as such training and experience is simply not necessary in many applications, and more cost effective to specialize with as a result. Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence So Local Chat vanished, now what? |
|
Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
88
|
Posted - 2014.01.25 15:13:00 -
[121] - Quote
Nikk Narrel you are ignoring my claim. That putting money into WiS takes money away from other more core things that makes eve eve.
WiS is not free, cannot be free. There is cost. Costs such as not fixing TiDi or whatever. |
Burning Bob
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2014.01.26 04:59:00 -
[122] - Quote
Delt0r Garsk wrote:Nikk Narrel you are ignoring my claim. That putting money into WiS takes money away from other more core things that makes eve eve.
WiS is not free, cannot be free. There is cost. Costs such as not fixing TiDi or whatever.
First, He's not ignoring your claim. You changed it. Originally you were talking about monetary cost. Now your talking about opportunity costs which are subjective. Second, There is a point where adding too many people to something subtracts from the project instead of adding to it.
Nikk's point is that they already have specialized people for WiS. Retasking them to work on WiS again won't physically cost CCP anything. Yes it may slow development down a tiny bit in another field but WiS devs would be far more productive in the field they specialized in. In business, talented employees are considered a valuable resource and you don't waste them on tasks in areas they aren't talented in. |
Daoden
The Scope Gallente Federation
2
|
Posted - 2014.01.26 06:28:00 -
[123] - Quote
WIS is a cool idea but like many have pointed out it doesn't bring more to the game then focusing on other areas. Only reason i would like more WIS is if you could attack ppl who are docked, which lets be honest, CCP wouldnt allow. |
Lephia DeGrande
Luxembourg Space Union
191
|
Posted - 2014.01.26 08:21:00 -
[124] - Quote
WIS is the Cherry on my Icecream... to Bad the Icecream doesnt taste that much. |
Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
88
|
Posted - 2014.01.26 09:14:00 -
[125] - Quote
Opportunity costs are not subjective. If i spend a million dollars for one year on WiS "specialists"*, that is a million dollars i can't spend on "fixing TiDi" specialists. Its completely quantifiable. Even if you assert 100% specialized programmers.
Worse in this case in that you may not be able to fire these programmers after you realized you screwed up sinking money into WiS. Perhaps next time less specialized programmers would be a better economic choice.
However there is more. Integrating WiS into the rest of the code base is also not free. You can't just have WiS bolted onto the side for free. It has to integrate with everything else in eve. And now your using all the other people to integrate code for WiS instead of working on better things. More eve like things.
* A million dollars is not even 10 programmers at 100k + overheads.
|
Burning Bob
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2014.01.26 16:23:00 -
[126] - Quote
Delt0r Garsk wrote:Opportunity costs are not subjective. If i spend a million dollars for one year on WiS "specialists"*, that is a million dollars i can't spend on "fixing TiDi" specialists. Its completely quantifiable. Even if you assert 100% specialized programmers.
Worse in this case in that you may not be able to fire these programmers after you realized you screwed up sinking money into WiS. Perhaps next time less specialized programmers would be a better economic choice.
However there is more. Integrating WiS into the rest of the code base is also not free. You can't just have WiS bolted onto the side for free. It has to integrate with everything else in eve. And now your using all the other people to integrate code for WiS instead of working on better things. More eve like things.
* A million dollars is not even 10 programmers at 100k + overheads.
Then by your logic they should never add anything new to the game because it would take away from balancing things and fixing bugs. Doing things like that, Eve would have died years ago. If they hired less specialized programmers we would end up with half assed code that barely runs let alone integrates well with other systems. Also, you're still talking opportunity costs which btw are subjective because what you may think is a loss may not actually be. You need to go about this like a businessman instead of an economist. |
Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
88
|
Posted - 2014.01.26 16:44:00 -
[127] - Quote
Burning Bob wrote: Then by your logic they should never add anything new to the game because it would take away from balancing things and fixing bugs.
You are having reading comprehension issues. I never said that. What i said was that there is a real cost of adding a feature like WiS. Now is that cost worth it? I would say no in *this case* because its trying to do something eve will never be great at. WiS is a entire MMO in its own right where some of the "competition" are the biggest dev companies in the world.
Adding WiS will mean all the parts of this game that make eve, eve, will get neglected for the worse. Because then it becomes a game that has neither compelling WiS or spaceships that actually spend time undocked.
Eve is not dying.
And even if it was, WiS would not save it. |
Burning Bob
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2014.01.26 17:27:00 -
[128] - Quote
Delt0r Garsk wrote:Burning Bob wrote: Then by your logic they should never add anything new to the game because it would take away from balancing things and fixing bugs.
You are having reading comprehension issues. I never said that. What i said was that there is a real cost of adding a feature like WiS. Now is that cost worth it? I would say no in *this case* because its trying to do something eve will never be great at. WiS is a entire MMO in its own right where some of the "competition" are the biggest [edit] game dev companies in the world. Adding WiS will mean all the parts of this game that make eve, eve, will get neglected for the worse. Because then it becomes a game that has neither compelling WiS or spaceships that actually spend time undocked. Eve is not dying. And even if it was, WiS would not save it. Apparently you're the one who has reading comprehension issues. I said if they acted like you eve would have died. Also, I wasn't quoting you I was following your logic. You don't want them to expand the game because anything they add won't be perfect from the start so its a waste regardless of its potential. CCP wants to turn eve into what we saw in the future vision trailer. WiS, Dust, and VR are all steps in that direction. Steps that you don't want them to take because you can't accept change. |
Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
88
|
Posted - 2014.01.26 17:38:00 -
[129] - Quote
Logic? You are not following any logic. there is no logic in "WiS costs resources better spent elsewhere" to "Never add or change anything".
As i have repeatably said I think WiS is a waste of resources. I have not made a statement about anything thing else. But i would add Dust to that. Your putting words in my mouth that just suits your argument. I think thats a strawman? Can never remember.
Show me how the huge amount of resources for WiS are justified?
If you think it won't take lots of resources then you should join every MMMO ever that has people walking around and show them how to do it without these massive teams of developers and artists. Because no one else knows how to do that. |
Burning Bob
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2014.01.26 19:01:00 -
[130] - Quote
Delt0r Garsk wrote:there is no logic in "WiS costs resources better spent elsewhere".
Thats about the first correct thing you've said. I haven't been putting words in your mouth I've just been bringing your flawed logic to light. You said you think anything that wasn't related to the core of the game was a waste. Well, WiS will be related to the core of the game. Its just going to take more time than your short sightedness will allow. Honestly what can they add that's so much more important than them expanding the game to attract more people to it?
Quote:Show me how the huge amount of resources for WiS are justified? Did you not read the last portion of my post? They need to make WiS so they can build off of it later and make a much much better game. |
|
Angelica Dreamstar
Epic Boo Bees
336
|
Posted - 2014.01.26 20:29:00 -
[131] - Quote
To improve the situation for us, we need to take small steps to divert their attention towards us.
99% of the people involved, right here on the forums, do crap **** to improve the situation. "Remember that every time you buy something, somebody else can't buy it. It matters at the end of the chain for the one guy who can't get it anymore, because YOU bought one!" --áJoin the Epic Boo Bees! (RP,PvE/PvP,wardecs,new players!) You're at it from day 0! |
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
3919
|
Posted - 2014.01.27 04:38:00 -
[132] - Quote
CCP is going to invest and develop more than just the current well known aspect of EVE.
This is their company, and they have that right.
It might be walking in darkness, another DUST 514, or possibly something with that fighter game at the fanfest.
Since we know they are going to invest in things beyond the core game, as history demonstrates, why should we not support this being an addition to EVE, like WiS is expressed to be?
It has no reason to remove support from the primary game, or affect it meaningfully, as these resources are going to be invested in a diversified game portfolio regardless.
I would rather EVE got the cross genre support of WiS, than see it blossom into some other game. Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence So Local Chat vanished, now what? |
Asuka Solo
Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises
2635
|
Posted - 2014.01.27 05:34:00 -
[133] - Quote
Nikk Narrel wrote:
I would rather EVE got the cross genre support of WiS, than see it blossom into some other game.
Too late.
Star Citizen has more WiS in Beta than Eve has as a finished product. And that was before this whole "2nd re-alignment of Eve's future vision to an even greater FIS circle jerk"... now with mobile structures to expand boring spaceboat gameplay and soon to have destructible stargates to revitalize the stale sub-cap landscape.
CCP had the only angle, the only claim to a sci-fi space boat shooter with capacity for a WiS component. Hoping and allowing CCP to expand into other platforms in the hopes of generating more revenue from sales of platforms nobody cares to buy when they want to play a PC game is not going to help either.
Alas it seems the hoards of flat minded pro-FiS "gimmeh mah Rifters online" delinquents managed to kill that pipe dream by shooting some re-spawnable statues in a market hub and unsubbing their cyno alts, because they were not happy with having to fork out $50 for vanity items they didn't care for and dont use.
People who got into Eve because of Freelancer, looking to expand on that adventure... found joy in FiS for a number of years. But we never had the WiS side that freelancer had and the expectations for getting it working were so much more than we had back then (like owning the bars that agents were in... ala hi-sec pOCO tax anybody?). By the end of this year and a few more SC modules later, those people who joined Eve because of freelancer will leave Eve because of Star Citizen.
And I'll support that product and or service with a smile......while having my own stuff. Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk! |
Cypherdog
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
33
|
Posted - 2014.01.27 10:24:00 -
[134] - Quote
Lephia DeGrande wrote: Edit: I would rather ask "Why is there still no comets, real Asteroid Belts in Space or why do we have over 5000+ Systems with only one Sun or why do we have still no physics or why cant we not use structures to hide and cover?"
I keep asking myself those questions. If they prefer to work on FiS instead of WiS, why haven't those features already being developed?
|
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
3919
|
Posted - 2014.01.27 14:33:00 -
[135] - Quote
Cypherdog wrote:Lephia DeGrande wrote: Edit: I would rather ask "Why is there still no comets, real Asteroid Belts in Space or why do we have over 5000+ Systems with only one Sun or why do we have still no physics or why cant we not use structures to hide and cover?"
I keep asking myself those questions. If they prefer to work on FiS instead of WiS, why haven't some those features already being developed? Edit: Binary systems already exist. Why don't we have flying cars everywhere, or robot butlers and maids?
Same reason, fixing and maintaining what we have takes a huge chunk of resources, leaving development with just enough to move at the current pace. Don't misunderstand, these projects are in the works, but they are nowhere near as simple as some might think. Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence So Local Chat vanished, now what? |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1181
|
Posted - 2014.01.27 14:35:00 -
[136] - Quote
Asuka Solo wrote:Nikk Narrel wrote:
I would rather EVE got the cross genre support of WiS, than see it blossom into some other game.
Too late. Star Citizen has more WiS in Beta than Eve has as a finished product. And that was before this whole "2nd re-alignment of Eve's future vision to an even greater FIS circle jerk"... now with mobile structures to expand boring spaceboat gameplay and soon to have destructible stargates to revitalize the stale sub-cap landscape. CCP had the only angle, the only claim to a sci-fi space boat shooter with capacity for a WiS component. Hoping and allowing CCP to expand into other platforms in the hopes of generating more revenue from sales of platforms nobody cares to buy when they want to play a PC game is not going to help either. Alas it seems the hoards of flat minded pro-FiS "gimmeh mah Rifters online" delinquents managed to kill that pipe dream by shooting some re-spawnable statues in a market hub and unsubbing their cyno alts, because they were not happy with having to fork out $50 for vanity items they didn't care for and dont use. People who got into Eve because of Freelancer, looking to expand on that adventure... found joy in FiS for a number of years. But we never had the WiS side that freelancer had and the expectations for getting it working were so much more than we had back then (like owning the bars that agents were in... ala hi-sec pOCO tax anybody?). By the end of this year and a few more SC modules later, those people who joined Eve because of freelancer will leave Eve because of Star Citizen. And I'll support that product and or service with a smile......while having my own stuff.
Star citzen had the disadvantage of being vaporware....
"If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Asuka Solo
Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises
2637
|
Posted - 2014.01.27 16:06:00 -
[137] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:Asuka Solo wrote:Nikk Narrel wrote:
I would rather EVE got the cross genre support of WiS, than see it blossom into some other game.
Too late. Star Citizen has more WiS in Beta than Eve has as a finished product. And that was before this whole "2nd re-alignment of Eve's future vision to an even greater FIS circle jerk"... now with mobile structures to expand boring spaceboat gameplay and soon to have destructible stargates to revitalize the stale sub-cap landscape. CCP had the only angle, the only claim to a sci-fi space boat shooter with capacity for a WiS component. Hoping and allowing CCP to expand into other platforms in the hopes of generating more revenue from sales of platforms nobody cares to buy when they want to play a PC game is not going to help either. Alas it seems the hoards of flat minded pro-FiS "gimmeh mah Rifters online" delinquents managed to kill that pipe dream by shooting some re-spawnable statues in a market hub and unsubbing their cyno alts, because they were not happy with having to fork out $50 for vanity items they didn't care for and dont use. People who got into Eve because of Freelancer, looking to expand on that adventure... found joy in FiS for a number of years. But we never had the WiS side that freelancer had and the expectations for getting it working were so much more than we had back then (like owning the bars that agents were in... ala hi-sec pOCO tax anybody?). By the end of this year and a few more SC modules later, those people who joined Eve because of freelancer will leave Eve because of Star Citizen. And I'll support that product and or service with a smile......while having my own stuff. Star citzen had the disadvantage of being vaporware.... Also you clearly were not here for the riots. because you do not get what happened. We rioted and most unsubscribed ALL their accounts (as i did) because of the arrogant statements of eve directorship, and throwing us a CRAP HORRIBLE character rendering that they dared to call an expansiont hat REDUCED functionalities in game and caused several computers to have problems. Eve community was clear, that mentality that CCP tried to switch into.. is somehting we do NOT TOLERATE.
I was actually. Lots of whoring on alts that could venture into Jita, I assure you.
Eve was vaporware until it was set in stone.
And its a shame you guys didn't stay unsubbed... Eve would have been a better place without you. Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk! |
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
3919
|
Posted - 2014.01.27 16:17:00 -
[138] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:Star citzen had the disadvantage of being vaporware....
Also you clearly were not here for the riots. because you do not get what happened. We rioted and most unsubscribed ALL their accounts (as i did) because of the arrogant statements of eve directorship, and throwing us a CRAP HORRIBLE character rendering that they dared to call an expansiont hat REDUCED functionalities in game and caused several computers to have problems.
Eve community was clear, that mentality that CCP tried to switch into.. is somehting we do NOT TOLERATE. Vaporware + money = Actual Software. There is no higher explanation for that equation, and that other piece of software has the money in place.
As to the riots, they were not about WiS.
WiS was collaterally damaged by the rumor of PTW coming to the game. If they had simply left the default station environment alone, and put the captains quarters as the optional place you could look at if curious, the complaints would have been trivial.
As long as fighting in space is unaffected, there can be no truly valid complaints against WiS. You can ignore it, or you can explore it, the same as anything else. Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence So Local Chat vanished, now what? |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
963
|
Posted - 2014.01.28 00:43:00 -
[139] - Quote
Nikk Narrel wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote:Star citzen had the disadvantage of being vaporware....
Also you clearly were not here for the riots. because you do not get what happened. We rioted and most unsubscribed ALL their accounts (as i did) because of the arrogant statements of eve directorship, and throwing us a CRAP HORRIBLE character rendering that they dared to call an expansiont hat REDUCED functionalities in game and caused several computers to have problems.
Eve community was clear, that mentality that CCP tried to switch into.. is somehting we do NOT TOLERATE. Vaporware + money = Actual Software. There is no higher explanation for that equation, and that other piece of software has the money in place. As to the riots, they were not about WiS. WiS was collaterally damaged by the rumor of PTW coming to the game. If they had simply left the default station environment alone, and put the captains quarters as the optional place you could look at if curious, the complaints would have been trivial. As long as fighting in space is unaffected, there can be no truly valid complaints against WiS. You can ignore it, or you can explore it, the same as anything else.
I can confirm that this is true, I rioted in all the hubs and biomassed my main in protest (25million sp at the time) the riots were about pay to win, not walking in stations. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Kabaos
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
116
|
Posted - 2014.02.01 11:59:00 -
[140] - Quote
Hm, intresting. |
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Kabaos
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
116
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 14:58:00 -
[141] - Quote
Continue... |
Soldarius
Deadman W0nderland Test Alliance Please Ignore
571
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 15:07:00 -
[142] - Quote
Incarna and WiS is in the dumpster where it belongs. This is a FiS game. Not barbies in space. Free Ripley Weaver! |
Seliah
0mega.
48
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 15:14:00 -
[143] - Quote
Soldarius wrote:Incarna and WiS is in the dumpster where it belongs. This is a FiS game. Not barbies in space.
If EVE was just about flying in space, then there would be a lot of other games out there that are much better at this. EVE is about living and evolving in one complex sandbox, and flying ships in space just happens to be a big part of it. It doesn't mean that everything else should be discarded. The ability to walk in stations would be a tremendeous boost to immersion within the EVE universe and, if done properly, would add a huge dimension to the game and a whole set of exciting features (spaceship related features ofc, but from another point of view). The problem is it would require a lot of time and patience to get all this done, which is probably why it won't happen anytime soon.
Anyway, I just wanted to say your comment was plain stupid. |
Crucial Thread
Viziam Amarr Empire
1
|
Posted - 2014.03.07 20:16:00 -
[144] - Quote
Seliah wrote:Soldarius wrote:Incarna and WiS is in the dumpster where it belongs. This is a FiS game. Not barbies in space. If EVE was just about flying in space, then there would be a lot of other games out there that are much better at this. EVE is about living and evolving in one complex sandbox, and flying ships in space just happens to be a big part of it. It doesn't mean that everything else should be discarded. The ability to walk in stations would be a tremendeous boost to immersion within the EVE universe and, if done properly, would add a huge dimension to the game and a whole set of exciting features (spaceship related features ofc, but from another point of view). The problem is it would require a lot of time and patience to get all this done, which is probably why it won't happen anytime soon. Anyway, I just wanted to say your comment was plain stupid.
I couldn't say better, fully agree.
|
Kabaos
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
119
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 16:45:00 -
[145] - Quote
Bump! |
Kabaos
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
119
|
Posted - 2014.05.13 12:56:00 -
[146] - Quote
Bump, some comments ) |
Binary Arnoux
Dark Pheonix Armada
0
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 07:58:00 -
[147] - Quote
this game feels like a browser game sometimes. just a chat, and buttons, say what u want, but a ship dont identify me more than an avatar, i feel WiS would give more social life to eve. but i dont think it will happend anytime soon, but games like Star citizen, and elite dangerous are coming and will bring all space u want and all avatar interaction u want, so, there is hope there if not here. |
Ray Kyonhe
Ray's Relentless Research Special Circumstances Alliance
17
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 08:15:00 -
[148] - Quote
Incarna defenitely had some good stuff coming (but it was flawed from the birth, yes, I agree), but lobby of "shiny 3D spaceship models in a goo" part of the game is too strong on forums and well organised ingame, so take this bunch of new shiny hulls (like there aren't enough of them in the game already) and be happy, why shouldn't you? "You need something completely new and different for a change? Why wouldn't you try playing WoW then, or WoT?" It'a a pity to see it came down to this. |
Kabaos
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
121
|
Posted - 2014.06.01 14:35:00 -
[149] - Quote
Binary Arnoux wrote:this game feels like a browser game sometimes. just a chat, and buttons, say what u want, but a ship dont identify me more than an avatar, i feel WiS would give more social life to eve. but i dont think it will happend anytime soon, but games like Star citizen, and elite dangerous are coming and will bring all space u want and all avatar interaction u want, so, there is hope there if not here.
I think so ..) |
RavenTesio
Liandri Corporation Liandri Covenant
120
|
Posted - 2014.06.01 14:51:00 -
[150] - Quote
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris wrote:I guess you were living in a cave for past several years so you know nothing about Jita riots and player protests against "features" Incarna had to offer.
Those "Riots" had nothing to do with Incarna, they were entirely about the fact CCP was taking the **** with their Micro-Transaction items like Clothes in the NEXUS Store... the entire concept of Incarna was something most players were actually really looking forward to, and the fact that during the whole "Let's re-evaluate our priorities" that CCP did... that entire aspect of the game basically got completely shelved.
I'm not going to say that I'm upset that they've put so much focus on going back to fix many of the long-standing issues with EVE by completely re-building the core game from the ground up ... as honestly I do think that was a smart decision, but the fact that Incarna was literally abandoned because of the complaints over pricing; rather than the feature itself was honestly was pretty extreme.
Especially now with the 6-Week Release schedule, meaning implementing something like Incarna; which as we were led to understand was not fully released because it wasn't ready, but merely because it lacked content could easily be remedied with them releasing it bit-by-bit with the new schedule as a "Bonus"
I mean after all DUST 514 / Project Legion heavily rely upon much of what was developed with Incarna and the Carbon Technology Platform as a whole; and while sure we've had a trickle out of clothing specifically over the last year of stuff they basically had sitting around ready to go ... it doesn't make that much sense that they're still keeping this stuff just stored on a HDD somewhere right now.
Especially as only last year or so at the Russian CCP event they were showing off Prototype gameplay footage (done in Unity) of how they were thinking of implementing Incarna for getting implants for Dust from Wormhole (Sleeper) space. So it's not like they've completely shelved it internally, they just don't seem to want to release or let us really know what is going on with it; which as I said it would make sense for them to now look at pushing out non-gameplay aspects so it can be tinkered and fine tuned before they do add gameplay aspects. |
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Alundil
Rolled Out
517
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Posted - 2014.06.01 22:29:00 -
[151] - Quote
RavenTesio wrote:[quote=Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris] Especially as only last year or so at the Russian CCP event they were showing off Prototype gameplay footage (done in Unity) of how they were thinking of implementing Incarna for getting implants for Dust from Wormhole (Sleeper) space. So it's not like they've completely shelved it internally
Is there any other available information about this? This would be interesting.
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RavenTesio
Liandri Corporation Liandri Covenant
121
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Posted - 2014.06.02 21:11:00 -
[152] - Quote
Alundil wrote:RavenTesio wrote:[quote=Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris] Especially as only last year or so at the Russian CCP event they were showing off Prototype gameplay footage (done in Unity) of how they were thinking of implementing Incarna for getting implants for Dust from Wormhole (Sleeper) space. So it's not like they've completely shelved it internally Is there any other available information about this? This would be interesting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33cJpp8YGlI - this was from Mid-2012 in Berlin, but there was another from Russia that was better quality... unfortunately I can't find it anymore.
I also know there was some Dev Blog in October 2012, but again can't find it now; that outlined the "Gameplay" they were prototyping for Avatar (WiS / Incarna) that they were looking to add.
Don't get me wrong I understand they want to make sure that if they do work on this again there will be a "Gameplay" aspect to it, but that said there is more than simply Gameplay that will make it something useful and meaningful for players; even if at first it means it is little more than a 3D Chatroom - well consider what most players do right now while they're sitting around shooting the breeze.
We're spinning our Ships or looking at our limited view in Station, I mean part of why I turned off my Captains Quarter's is simply because that Door to the rest of the station taunts me every time. It doesn't make any sense why we can't go through it to be able to talk and interact with our friends, directors, bunnies, etc...
To those who are deeply into the Role Playing aspect of the game, it becomes one less barrier to maintaining your persona rather than blankly looking at little more than a chat box; and what frustrates me the most here is we know this technology is basically compete and working... we have Captains Quarters, Dust 514 has the Pre-Game Lobby, so this stuff is working.
So much effort went in to these features, for them to be relegated right now to little more than another Docked Interact that loads a bit slower; so most turn that off when they know they're going to want to dock and reship for PVP. Yet if you're not, well more often than not; you flick it back on... perhaps sit on the couch and wonder why you can't pick up that can of Quafe while watching the Galactic news on your 70" Holoscreen. |
Kabaos
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
122
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Posted - 2014.07.29 12:42:00 -
[153] - Quote
CCP and what are your plans about Walking in stations? Some answers? I'm waiting.. |
Delt0r Garsk
Sanctuary of Shadows Honorable Third Party
147
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Posted - 2014.07.29 13:13:00 -
[154] - Quote
Lets just hope for the rest of eve, they you are kept waiting a very long time.
Why don't you play Star Citizen. I hear you can run around the station all day. Death and Glory!
Well fun is also good. |
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
4331
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Posted - 2014.07.29 13:32:00 -
[155] - Quote
Delt0r Garsk wrote:Lets just hope for the rest of eve, they you are kept waiting a very long time.
Why don't you play Star Citizen. I hear you can run around the station all day. Let's not be negative.
There is no reason to expect that any improvements to WiS will have a negative impact on the ship side of things. It is a different section of code entirely, and the budget plus staffing would be a separate issue.
Would you rather CCP diversified into an entirely separate game again? Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked... |
Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Ixtab.
1631
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Posted - 2014.07.29 13:38:00 -
[156] - Quote
WIS will not happen until another games proves how valuable avatar gameplay can be to a scifi game... But by then it will be too late.
You think eve has a problem retaining/attracting new players now? Wait to see what happens in a couple years +1 |
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
4331
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Posted - 2014.07.29 13:50:00 -
[157] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:WIS will not happen until another games proves how valuable avatar gameplay can be to a scifi game... But by then it will be too late. You think eve has a problem retaining/attracting new players now? Wait to see what happens in a couple years It is entirely possible that what we have now will be viewed as half of a game, in the years to come.
The walking in stations aspect has every potential to rival similar aspects of other MMO's, if done correctly. And those other MMOs... they do not have the spaceship side like EVE...
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked... |
Fer'isam K'ahn
None Of One
251
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Posted - 2014.07.29 14:31:00 -
[158] - Quote
Why is this so blatantly being bumped ? Bumping in this forum is against the rules btw.!
Besides that, WiS is somewhere below the last place on my wishlist for anything regrading EVE and semingly not only on mine. Can we let it die ?
Once Legion and Single Login is fully integrated we can maybe have a look back at this .. before, simply no, please NO!
Are you sure your issues aren't elsewhere ?! |
Ray Kyonhe
Ray's Relentless Research
108
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Posted - 2014.07.29 16:40:00 -
[159] - Quote
Fer'isam K'ahn wrote: Once Legion and Single Login is fully integrated we can maybe have a look back at this .. before, simply no, please NO!
Legion and Dust are least suitable addition to Eve's universe I could imagine. I don't want even think about them, not to actually play it. A BF\COD-like brainless shooter has nothing to do with Eve which based on planning and decision making. It's like some alien parasite on its body.
The only best approach to ambulations and all the similar WiS features (like sabotage or assasiantions) I can imagine is something similar to what can be experienced in Full Spectrum Warrior game series. In this combat simulator you have indirect control over the small squad of soldiers and have to make quick and well weighed decisions (not compete in who is strafes better and click mouse buttons faster) while time pressured by environment (and other players if its an MP game), and the price of mistakes is very high (there is no regenerations and revivals, and soldiers die very quickly if exposed to enemy fire). So much like Eve we know.
Here is actuall gameplay footage from it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRT5zooiKLQ Just swap modern weapons and armor with futuristic ones and you'll get an absolute winner for all speheres where fighting on foot should be assumed in Eve. Not some crappy generic MP shooter full of bunnyhopping teenagers. Survey/voting system inbuilt to the game client: link_Reforming corp and taxation system: link_New PvE content (reward collective gameplay): link |
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
2348
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Posted - 2014.07.29 20:47:00 -
[160] - Quote
Ray Kyonhe wrote:Legion and Dust are least suitable addition to Eve's universe I could imagine. I don't want even think about them, not to actually play it. A BF\COD-like brainless shooter has nothing to do with Eve which based on planning and decision making. It's like some alien parasite on its body.
Except that CCP's design goal for DUST/Legion isn't to have "some brainless shooter". They want to make an FPS that requires thought and planning go into your character development because every choice you make matters - something that those other FPS games don't have.
Whether that goal can be achieved, however, is beyond the scope of my reply. |
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Ray Kyonhe
Ray's Relentless Research
114
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Posted - 2014.07.31 12:48:00 -
[161] - Quote
Alvatore DiMarco wrote: They want to make an FPS that requires thought and planning go into your character development because every choice you make matters.
This won't change a thing if underlying gameplay will stay the same as what was seen in Dust. And it will most certnaly will. It will still be brainless hectic strafebattle driven spray-your-fire-all-around-without-second-thought one from Planetside/Battlefield/COD which has nothing to do with Eve's basic design concepts. Yes I hate those kind of games to the guts, so it makes me somewhat biased. But honestly such type of gameplay shoulnd't be in any form linked to Eve Online, the resulting Frankenstine makes me sick. Survey/voting system inbuilt to the game client: link_Reforming corp and taxation system: link_New PvE content (reward collective gameplay): link |
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
4332
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Posted - 2014.07.31 13:20:00 -
[162] - Quote
Ray Kyonhe wrote:Alvatore DiMarco wrote: They want to make an FPS that requires thought and planning go into your character development because every choice you make matters.
This won't change a thing if underlying gameplay will stay the same as what was seen in Dust. And it will most certnaly will. It will still be brainless hectic strafebattle driven spray-your-fire-all-around-without-second-thought one from Planetside/Battlefield/COD which has nothing to do with Eve's basic design concepts. Yes I hate those kind of games to the guts, so it makes me somewhat biased. But honestly such type of gameplay shoulnd't be in any form linked to Eve Online, the resulting Frankenstine makes me sick. DUST might have had these traits you describe. I can't say from direct experience as some might be able to.
As an EVE player, I was unable to convince myself to go out and by a PS3, just to play this.
I am hoping they bring a version with more stable elements, and not just a MOBA with EVE inspired skins on it. Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked... |
Kabaos
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
125
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Posted - 2014.08.12 18:27:00 -
[163] - Quote
Hm some intresting game - Elite:Dangerous https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBNmQqea6S0 |
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ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1920
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Posted - 2014.08.13 22:51:00 -
[164] - Quote
I have removed a rule breaking post.
The Rules: 19. All posts must be related to EVE Online.
Posts regarding other companies and products or services are prohibited and any content of this nature will be removed. Posts regarding other games are however permitted on the Out of Pod Experience forum for the purposes of discussion only. ISD Ezwal Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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