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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Malka Badi'a
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Posted - 2006.04.27 22:26:00 -
[241]
Make WCS a targetable subsystem that can be destroyed. "Period".
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Fatima Nefestis
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Posted - 2006.04.27 22:37:00 -
[242]
 Originally by: Malka Badi'a
Make WCS a targetable subsystem that can be destroyed. "Period".
Now there's something I'd like to see extended to just about any module - whether it's targeting the WCS of a vessel you've just ambushed before it can shrug off your scramblers, frantically trying to target and destroy the scrambler of an ambushing vessel and escape before its guns and gangmates do you in, or trying to kill the various midslots of an EW cruiser and lift its shutdown of your gang's biggest hitter. It'd certainly be an improvement on the current "just pound on it until it dies," mechanic as far as how interesting and intelligent combat is.
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Gordan Freeman
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Posted - 2006.04.27 22:44:00 -
[243]
Originally by: Fatima Nefestis
I still reckon that the most effective 'quick fix' that wouldn't require a wholesale rebalancing of the system would be for fitted WCS to prevent the activation of warp disruptors. Let those who want to run, run, let those who want to aggress, aggress, but don't let people aggress while they're also carrying a 'get out of aggression free' card in the form of a fat rack of stabs.
If your saying that you shouldnt get flaged at all unleess you attack at a gate... thats the problem.. you get flagged and they get away scot free.. make the agression timer 5 mins and the 15 mins destruction timer AT LEAST if ccp is to chicken to nerf stabs.
Passari will never be safe again |
Fatima Nefestis
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Posted - 2006.04.27 23:23:00 -
[244]
Originally by: Gordan Freeman
If your saying that you shouldnt get flaged at all unleess you attack at a gate... thats the problem.. you get flagged and they get away scot free.. make the agression timer 5 mins and the 15 mins destruction timer AT LEAST if ccp is to chicken to nerf stabs.
I wasn't proposing any changes to the aggression system at all, actually - merely disabling the ability to credibly aggress (i.e. warp scramble) for any ship that also fits WCS. I think a ship that fits to run should be able to run, just the same as a ship that fits to tank should be able to tank, or a ship that fits to destroy should be able to destroy, and that effort should be required to prevent that ship from running, just as effort is required to break a tank or to tank a decent offensive setup - I just feel that fitting WCS as they currently exist allow a player too credible an offensive setup while still retaining that ability to run based on fittings alone.
What are you fighting that can fit both enough WCS to shrug off your scrambling, and a big enough tank to either slowboat to the gate before you can kill them, or to survive your attack long enough for the sentry guns to drive you off?
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Odet
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Posted - 2006.04.28 02:18:00 -
[245]
Originally by: Masta Killa
Fit more scramblers? 
Fit more brain cells before posting?
_______I podded a Dev and all I got was this lousy Implant_______
=This podding has been brought to you by Odet, the only way to fry.= |
Odet
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Posted - 2006.04.28 02:18:00 -
[246]
Originally by: Cummilla
Originally by: Odet
On a seperate note let's take a look at warpcores vs interdictors argument.
Warpcore Skill REQ:
navigation 1
Warp drive operation 1
(no activation or player skill involved)
VS
Interdictor skill REQ:
Frigate 5
interceptors 5
evasive maneuvering 5
destroyers 5
science 5
engeneirng 5
propulsion jamming 5
interceptors 4
electronics 3
spaceship command 3
navigation 2
graviton physics 1
(requires activations and player skill)
Pretty big difference.
Now the prices
warpcores:
10k
(can be used in empire)
VS
interdictors:
28 million
(cant be used in empire)
hmmm thats intresting theres also a pretty big price difference.
Now lets sum it all up:
the argument of some was "use an interdictor problem solved".
Not exactly buddy....
A tech 1 module that has bare minimum skill and fitting requirements and you say sure go counter it with this 28mill isk paper thin ship with insane skill requirements in the middle of an assault that it will be primary target.
anyone else see an imbalance?
make interdictors less skill instensive????
To be honest m8 making interdictors less skill intensive will not solve the wcs imbalance.
Something needs to done to warpcores themselves.
_______I podded a Dev and all I got was this lousy Implant_______
=This podding has been brought to you by Odet, the only way to fry.= |
B0rn2KiLL
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Posted - 2006.04.28 04:09:00 -
[247]
this is so getting locked soon :p
---
new sig, Hijack it and ill eat u.
*Imaran hands B0rn2KiLL a fork - Come get some!11 
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mazzilliu
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Posted - 2006.04.28 04:15:00 -
[248]
From now on i will never fit a low slot except for warp core stabilizers just to make half the people in this thread mad.
So there. Nyaah
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- ghuis8nf83fn45viunv8jgijfc4eshuvvgs
- You currently have 100 skills and 781,742 skill points
- eat THAT
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Odet
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Posted - 2006.04.28 05:52:00 -
[249]
Originally by: mazzilliu
From now on i will never fit a low slot except for warp core stabilizers just to make half the people in this thread mad.
So there. Nyaah
wont change my life.... go for it.
_______I podded a Dev and all I got was this lousy Implant_______
=This podding has been brought to you by Odet, the only way to fry.= |
Odet
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Posted - 2006.04.28 05:53:00 -
[250]
Originally by: B0rn2KiLL
this is so getting locked soon :p
not my fault people cant have an intelligent debate.
Not 1 person has come up with counter arguments to mine.
_______I podded a Dev and all I got was this lousy Implant_______
=This podding has been brought to you by Odet, the only way to fry.= |
Dinique
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Posted - 2006.04.28 09:00:00 -
[251]
Originally by: Fatima Nefestis
Originally by: Gordan Freeman
If your saying that you shouldnt get flaged at all unleess you attack at a gate... thats the problem.. you get flagged and they get away scot free.. make the agression timer 5 mins and the 15 mins destruction timer AT LEAST if ccp is to chicken to nerf stabs.
I wasn't proposing any changes to the aggression system at all, actually - merely disabling the ability to credibly aggress (i.e. warp scramble) for any ship that also fits WCS. I think a ship that fits to run should be able to run, just the same as a ship that fits to tank should be able to tank, or a ship that fits to destroy should be able to destroy, and that effort should be required to prevent that ship from running, just as effort is required to break a tank or to tank a decent offensive setup - I just feel that fitting WCS as they currently exist allow a player too credible an offensive setup while still retaining that ability to run based on fittings alone.
What are you fighting that can fit both enough WCS to shrug off your scrambling, and a big enough tank to either slowboat to the gate before you can kill them, or to survive your attack long enough for the sentry guns to drive you off?
I like this idea a lot. Let that -1 Scramble Strength you get from a WCS count for your own scramblers too.
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Masta Killa
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Posted - 2006.04.28 09:20:00 -
[252]
Originally by: Odet
Originally by: Masta Killa
Fit more scramblers?
Fit more brain cells before posting?
Oh I'm sorry that your royal highness does not care for scrambling his targets.
I need to fit -4 scrambling on my vaga to catch npcers and I'm not complaining, why are you?
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Xantina
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Posted - 2006.04.28 10:29:00 -
[253]
Edited by: Xantina on 28/04/2006 10:31:10
To lock, or not to lock ?
Pro: sending this necro thread to it's grave
Con: people will start "nerf WCS" thread #6856 until they can scramble a 10 WCS ship with their single 20 km disruptor.
Why do I think WCS are ok as they are ?
1. WCS against bubbles - useless
2. WCS against interdictors - useless
3. WCS against snipers - useless
4. WCS against gank gang with lots of scramblers - very chancy
5. WCS against single pilots with plenty of scramblers - very chancy
----
6. WCS against single pilots who are too lazy to change their tactics to one of the above or who want to keep their 'leet set-up AND have an I-WIN guarantee - good chance
So - WHY are warp core stabilizers "overpowered" again ?
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Niques Leutre
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Posted - 2006.04.28 14:04:00 -
[254]
Originally by: Xantina
Edited by: Xantina on 28/04/2006 10:31:10
To lock, or not to lock ?
Pro: sending this necro thread to it's grave
Con: people will start "nerf WCS" thread #6856 until they can scramble a 10 WCS ship with their single 20 km disruptor.
Why do I think WCS are ok as they are ?
1. WCS against bubbles - useless
2. WCS against interdictors - useless
3. WCS against snipers - useless
4. WCS against gank gang with lots of scramblers - very chancy
5. WCS against single pilots with plenty of scramblers - very chancy
----
6. WCS against single pilots who are too lazy to change their tactics to one of the above or who want to keep their 'leet set-up AND have an I-WIN guarantee - good chance
So - WHY are warp core stabilizers "overpowered" again ?
All to true...
___________________________________
The fiercer the foe, the sweeter the salvage.
The fatter the wallet, the bigger the smile. |
Bertram Vetold
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Posted - 2006.04.28 19:02:00 -
[255]
Originally by: Xantina
Edited by: Xantina on 28/04/2006 10:31:10
To lock, or not to lock ?
Pro: sending this necro thread to it's grave
Con: people will start "nerf WCS" thread #6856 until they can scramble a 10 WCS ship with their single 20 km disruptor.
Why do I think WCS are ok as they are ?
1. WCS against bubbles - useless
2. WCS against interdictors - useless
3. WCS against snipers - useless
4. WCS against gank gang with lots of scramblers - very chancy
5. WCS against single pilots with plenty of scramblers - very chancy
----
6. WCS against single pilots who are too lazy to change their tactics to one of the above or who want to keep their 'leet set-up AND have an I-WIN guarantee - good chance
So - WHY are warp core stabilizers "overpowered" again ?
There's your counter arguement Odet, much like the one Dinique posted a page back. the same proof of balance all the closed minded PvPers keep ignoring because they think it is their game and everybody must play to suit them.
Pierats are the biggest carebears of all, I'd love to meet more than 1 or 2 on these boards or in game that doesn't whine constantly because they can't gank alone.
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Tolonen
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Posted - 2006.04.28 19:11:00 -
[256]
I gank alone just fine. Maybe the problem is they can't kill someone every 5 minutes, so they can't compete on the stupid killboards.
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Odet
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Posted - 2006.04.28 19:48:00 -
[257]
Edited by: Odet on 28/04/2006 19:48:25
Originally by: Xantina
Edited by: Xantina on 28/04/2006 10:31:10
To lock, or not to lock ?
Pro: sending this necro thread to it's grave
Con: people will start "nerf WCS" thread #6856 until they can scramble a 10 WCS ship with their single 20 km disruptor.
Why do I think WCS are ok as they are ?
1. WCS against bubbles - useless
2. WCS against interdictors - useless
3. WCS against snipers - useless
4. WCS against gank gang with lots of scramblers - very chancy
5. WCS against single pilots with plenty of scramblers - very chancy
----
6. WCS against single pilots who are too lazy to change their tactics to one of the above or who want to keep their 'leet set-up AND have an I-WIN guarantee - good chance
So - WHY are warp core stabilizers "overpowered" again ?
have you even read my previous posts?
Ignorance is bliss....
I have a counter argument for everyone of your poorly thought out points.
re read the entire thread and try again pal.
_______I podded a Dev and all I got was this lousy Implant_______
=This podding has been brought to you by Odet, the only way to fry.= |
Odet
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Posted - 2006.04.28 19:50:00 -
[258]
Originally by: Masta Killa
Originally by: Odet
Originally by: Masta Killa
Fit more scramblers?
Fit more brain cells before posting?
Oh I'm sorry that your royal highness does not care for scrambling his targets.
I need to fit -4 scrambling on my vaga to catch npcers and I'm not complaining, why are you?
how about you back up your statment with some actual arguments, or do you actually lack the brain power to have a constructive debate?
read the entire thread and especially my posts with my arguments, then formulate your own arguments.
_______I podded a Dev and all I got was this lousy Implant_______
=This podding has been brought to you by Odet, the only way to fry.= |
Odet
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Posted - 2006.04.28 19:52:00 -
[259]
Originally by: Tolonen
I gank alone just fine. Maybe the problem is they can't kill someone every 5 minutes, so they can't compete on the stupid killboards.
If you've even bothered to read the thread m8, this isnt about gate gamping or snipping or garnbage like that. It's about overall game balance.
Go ahead and take a few mintutes to read the thread.
Maybe you can say something usefull next time.
_______I podded a Dev and all I got was this lousy Implant_______
=This podding has been brought to you by Odet, the only way to fry.= |
Prestis
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Posted - 2006.04.28 20:14:00 -
[260]
The diminishing returns change is responsible for alot of recent WCS whines. Once upon a time every WCS was 15% damage and ROF directly lost - a real trade off.
Since diminishing turns 2 or 3 damage mods and you start getting almost nothing back, so WCS become the no-brainer no-trade off module to fit for lots of setups.
WCS need their own diminishing returns just to get back to where we were.
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Karistis
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Posted - 2006.04.28 20:44:00 -
[261]
Odet's arguments pretty much destroy all others in this thread. She is one of the few who has actually been civil and used actual logic, unlike the "D00D JUST USE MORE SCRAMBLERS" idiots.
I sincerely hope that a MAJOR change is made to WCS ASAP (next patch maybe?) in order to make them require actual SKILL and BRAINS to use. As it stands today, any idiot with half a brain can slap a full rack of WCS on his/her BS PvP setup and be nearly impervious to being destroyed, while still being able to deal near-equal damage as anyone else who does not fit WCS. It has become an almost risk-free solution, just so that you don't have to chew what you bit off by entering lowsec/0.0/wars. "But I got war dec'd and I can't fight them! I can't control that!" Then don't fight. Pay mercs to fight for you, or simply run away. EVE is a PvP game that was designed to have RISK. Fitting WCS to a PvP setup almost completely removes the risk, which is one of the major things that is causing the slow demise of the profession of empire-pirating, as well as to PvP in general.
_________________________________________
2005.01.17 22:04:22 combat Chackle [PUSY] perfectly runs from you, wrecking for 1500 cowardice. |
Chain Gang
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Posted - 2006.04.28 21:33:00 -
[262]
Work for you kills .. the game is fine how it is ....
Another ... I want to fit an uber ship and stop everything with a single +1 30km Domimation Warp Disrupter .... please CCP don't make me fit 2 x Warp Disrupters because I can't still get my 1500 DPS. Pathetic ...
Funny how people have managed to get kills for 3 years and now you want CCP to line them up so you can shoot them ...... I suggest you go and play War Craft.
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Zooish
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Posted - 2006.04.28 21:37:00 -
[263]
You talk about game balance as long as it favours you blowing people up and not them escaping .......
OK..... lets have game balance .... I want a module that counters "warp bubbles" and "Interdictors Sphere" ... balance that ...
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Goodtime Girl
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Posted - 2006.04.28 21:44:00 -
[264]
There are already 2 items in the game that can and does stops ships warping without any form of defence ... Warp Bubbles and Interdictors ... isn't it already easy enough to lock people down .....
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Tolonen
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Posted - 2006.04.28 23:16:00 -
[265]
Edited by: Tolonen on 28/04/2006 23:17:19
I think the biggest counter argument to this ridiculous thread is the number of people using stabs that end up on the wrong end of a killmail. It seems a lot of people are off playing the game and killing stabbed up ships instead of whining about it here.
Hope that was productive enough. 
edit: grammar and clarity.
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Karistis
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Posted - 2006.04.28 23:32:00 -
[266]
Edited by: Karistis on 28/04/2006 23:33:24
EDIT: Talking to the three posters before Pistonbroke.
Why should it cost 28m ISK and millions of SP to negate a module that only costs 5k and requires only about a weeks worth of skill training?
All of your arguments have been addressed by Odet, but you seem content to post with flaming alts as a last-ditch effort. Oh, and as a former pirate, I can tell you that we don't want to have our opponents "lined up for us." Your entire argument seems based on putting words in our mouths. The majority of pirates/PvPers enjoy a challenge for BOTH sides (except for idiots like Ginger Magician). Where is the challenge, or the fun, if the other guy isn't brave enough to chew what he bit off by entering lowsec? By entering lowsec, you accept the risk of losing your ship. Where is the risk if you are in a geddon with 8 WCS? You can't place bubbles in lowsec, only in 0.0. Why am I even bothering to argue against such obviously brainless alt posts? Odet has already addressed every single one of your points. You have no ground to stand on. WCS have needed some nerfage for a long time. Maybe a module will come with them to counter bubbles, but maybe only have, say, a 5% chance per skill level of working to evade the bubble. WCS should be back to power-using medslot modules IMO. That way, they actually require SKILL to use, and make it so that you can't fit for risk-free PvP, but instead have to chew what you bit off. But of course, you resent that greatly. You want risk-free PvP. You want to be able to prance around in lowsec/0.0 with not a care in the world. You call pirates/PvPers cowards and whiners, even though you aren't even brave enough to chew what you bit off by entering lowsec, and compensate for your lack of knowledge for what EVE really is - a game of RISK - by flaming with alts and simply ignoring arguments that don't support your point of view. Unlike yourselves, some of us have actually read the WHOLE THREAD, not just the parts we want to read.
Rant over. Why do I even bother arguing against alts? I must have waaayy too must time on my hands....sheesh...
_________________________________________
2005.01.17 22:04:22 combat Chackle [PUSY] perfectly runs from you, wrecking for 1500 cowardice. |
Garage
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Posted - 2006.04.28 23:51:00 -
[267]
All of Odet's arguements boil down to one thing, people escaping.
That's why this is a flamy topic, people should be able to escape. You can't just nerf WCS without looking at changing the way the whole system works. Is there balance now, don't know, don't care. Would there be balance if just a WCS got a nerf, maybe for older players, but not the noobs or empire space players that don't want to get ganked in EMPIRE space. That's why you can't use the bubbles or intradictors there, even low-sec in empire should be safer than 0.0, but it's not.
There are some good ideas in the whole thread, but lots of them center on WCS being a travel only mod. I don't mind them becoming that, but I'd also like to see the scramblers become chance based like the rest of EW. Of course, I'd also like to see empires protect their space, even the low sec, but that's not going to happen.
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Testy Mctest
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Posted - 2006.04.29 00:09:00 -
[268]
Ooh, another thread to post my standard response in.
Testy's Eve Blog!
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Psycarne
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Posted - 2006.04.29 00:24:00 -
[269]
Originally by: Testy Mctest
Ooh, another thread to post my standard response in.
I endorse this responce.
-------------
Order of the Wombles: Recycling those untidy modules on your ship.
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Lorth
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Posted - 2006.04.29 00:32:00 -
[270]
Originally by: Testy Mctest
Ooh, another thread to post my standard response in.
What a horribly stupid argument, I'm really surprised you would even post that, even with an alt.
Could you explain to the whole community 'how to play?'
I've been in this game for a while, and about the only solution I have found to stabs is to gang up with 4 other people, and have 16 points of scrambling between all of us. I'm not exagertating in the least. And we still lose people who are stabbed, because not everyone can be in the same place at the same time, constantly.
The standered responce to stab threads boils down to three basic arguments.
Learn to play, though no-one ever seems to give a way to play to play the game and catch stab users. But that argument works, because you get to flame someone, and have to offer no real opinion, or even show the slightest bit of knowledge about the game.
Get more scramblers/friends. Though interestling enough everyone always forgets that is impossible to counter a fully stab ship, with a fully scambling ship, unless of course we all train for scorps, and managed to land 7km away from everyone. And saying this is a counter is even more stupid then the above statment. And then there the fact that needing more people on one side to balance the mods the other side is using IS NOT A BALANCED SITUATION. Jesus, this might be the stupidest things ever written on these forums. "Stabs are balanced because you can stop one person using them with two people"
Or the old "OMG you griefer try figthing people that want to fight" Sure thats exactly what I do. Allowing people who don't want to fight, to be completly immune from it, is esentually giveing the game a PVP flag. Which is exactly what the current situation is right now. Only stabs allow the truly stupid a chance to get away. The truly stupid really should die, and not be put on an equal level with everyone else because of an over powered mod, and its counter being vastly inferiour.
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