You said chasing people out caused the timers to roll back, it does not. Sitting in the plex however does.

So what you're saying is a rollback mechanic already exists?

Thanks.

Can you be counted in the camp then that believes some change should be made? Everyone counts! (And you are correct that the devil is in the details, but step one is getting CCP to acknowledge that change is needed).

Yup, all we want is a better one.

I wouldn't go that far

I'm unconvinced as yet that there is, in practice, a real problem and I am certainly unconvinced by most of the arguments provided in the first part of this thread. I don't think stabs or cloaks are a problem and I don't have any sympathy at all for the guys who are whining about how terrible it is that they should be expected to actually cap plexes when all they want is free and easy PvP.

However, I do think that there is, in principle, a potential problem such that sheer numerical superiority on one side could imbalance the FW system and that it may be the case that the whole system could use a slight tweak in order to give the defenders more of a chance if they are being swamped. But I'm still not sure that any of the proposed solutions, including my own, are either really viable or necessary. The problem is that the potential issue, as I see it, is to do with numbers but any tweak will affect the system even when there is no significant numerical imbalance. Giving a defensive advantage could, then, just lead to greater chances of stagnation in normal circumstances, which wouldn't be a desirable outcome.

However (2), if I were convinced that some change were necessary I would be inclined to support either a very limited boost to timer rollback speed or, for preference, a first past the post system with independent timers. The suggestions of things like a 10x rollback speed, instant rollback, restrictions on stabs, and generally most of what has been suggested in this thread strike me as nuts and way out of proportion to any problem that might exist.

Sorry I can't give you a firmer answer but you can put me in the qualified maybe column.

You want one that provides you the same reward without putting in the work for it.

GJ, your entitlement is showing finally.

I'm not telling anyone to give me anything

I'm asking CCP to consider making a change to the mechanics of the game that would make it more fun for me

You want one that provides you the same reward without putting in the work for it.

GJ, your entitlement is showing finally.

If your only argument is nothing other than trolling to defend your isk faucet (while admitting you have no interested in FW other than isk) you are adding nothing of value to the discussion.

Contacting the CSM to do something won't bring any change to Faction War. It took YEARS! of complaints to get Faction War what it is today. Been in and out of FW for well over 5 years soon to be 6 I know first hand.

However this does not mean that we do not have a problem. CCP has proven that FW is at the bottom of Eve Care list. Instead they prefer to aid 0.0 peeps and high sec. carebears from meanies that would war dec. them and halt the oh great mining game that is Eve.

The timer Roll back is a great idea.
The cloak not so much.

In order to improve the situation in Faction war and have as little butt hurt as possible CCP would have to just deny any ship entry to a plex that has a warp core stabb fitted onto there ship. Why just the stab and not the cloak? because there is no good argument to support having a warp core stab inside a plex. A cloak can be used in pvp inside a plex for Falcon/ Pilgrim support. Also with the new SOE ships cloaks add a element to FW plexing that can't be so easy removed without MASSIVE QQ from all sides of the fence. Remember the 0.0 carebears made their tears known about how their "Ratting" was affected by AFK cloakys in system. Cloaks are a part of the game in many ways and will remain so.

Warp core stabs add nothing to the safty of farmers that can not be achived by someone with a cloak equiped on their ship. What it eliminates from FW plexing is AFK PLEXING. Thanks to not so long ago changes you can no longer run down a timer while using the cloak and uncloak trick. Also you can not keep FW plexs from spawning using this trick as well. Now if someone trys to afk plex with and alt farmer they will have to be active with that plexing alt looking for danger (not just waiting for the warning sounds so they can tab back in and warp out.) and give people a chance to destroy the farmer. Without any warp core stabs the farmer can now be pointed by normal means (not duel scram fits that believe it or not still sometimes fail to hold them in pvp.)

Removing Warp core stabs alone from plexes will still alow people to farm that are activly farming but at the same time limit the ammount of ISK farm and LP items on the market. This will not only improve the gameplay for all players in Faction War to generate more pvp but help those actually engaged in Faction war to earn more money to keep on doing what we all love. Pew Pew.

As everybody knows by now, FW experience has been ruined by allowing low-SP alts in stabbed T1 frigates and empty clones to both farm insane amounts of ISK and affect warzone control.

Instead of fighting each others, the PVP-minded FW pilots are forced to chase farmers out of plexes- endlessly. This is the most frustrating thing I've faced in EVE, and it's now time for CCP to acknowledge the situation.

My corpmate wrote a good blog post that lists the commonly suggested solutions:

- timer rollbacks
- buffing the NPCs
- rebalancing warp core stabs
- cloak prevention mechanism

Currently the farmers risk nearly nothing in space assets, time spent or lost value- cheapest PVE ships possible in game, timers don't reset and there's always a new plex to farm.

If you support fixing FW, post your ideas here, on all relevant forum sections or anywhere, contact your CSM representative or CCP directly. I know I speak for most FW pilots when I say enough is enough, farming has to end. It's up to us to make CCP wake up.

Warp core stabs add nothing to the safty of farmers that can not be achived by someone with a cloak equiped on their ship. What it eliminates from FW plexing is AFK PLEXING.

Thanks to not so long ago changes you can no longer run down a timer while using the cloak and uncloak trick. Also you can not keep FW plexs from spawning using this trick as well. Now if someone trys to afk plex with and alt farmer they will have to be active with that plexing alt looking for danger (not just waiting for the warning sounds so they can tab back in and warp out.) and give people a chance to destroy the farmer. Without any warp core stabs the farmer can now be pointed by normal means (not duel scram fits that believe it or not still sometimes fail to hold them in pvp.)

Removing Warp core stabs alone from plexes will still alow people to farm that are activly farming but at the same time limit the ammount of ISK farm and LP items on the market. This will not only improve the gameplay for all players in Faction War to generate more pvp but help those actually engaged in Faction war to earn more money to keep on doing what we all love. Pew Pew.

These two sentences directly contradict each other.



You are saying that there is really no problem here because you can fit your ship in such a way as to kill these guys but you just don't want to. The failure here is on your behalf with your insistence that you be allowed to fly 'normal' fits and not have to adapt to the fit your opponent chooses. CCP have absolutely no motivation to make this kind of change because it flies in the face of the entire design ethos of the game. You already have the tools you need; they are not going to change the game just because you would rather not use those tools.

You are saying that there is really no problem here because you can fit your ship in such a way as to kill these guys but you just don't want to. The failure here is on your behalf with your insistence that you be allowed to fly 'normal' fits and not have to adapt to the fit your opponent chooses. CCP have absolutely no motivation to make this kind of change because it flies in the face of the entire design ethos of the game. You already have the tools you need; they are not going to change the game just because you would rather not use those tools.

So essentially you want me to convince you that afk complex farming is not the intent of the FW sovereignty system( as an extension of the complex mechanic). I mean what I am gathering is that the rewards for complexes run in FW warfare are NOT rewards for taking an active role in the FW theater. Rather, these are merely payouts to people for free ISK to PLEX their accounts or support their hisec/nullsec/pirate mains. I am terribly sorry. I have no argument for that beyond the obvious. In fact, since it is only obvious to people who, you know, want the full features of FW, maybe the best road for those who give a darn is to just leave FW with our mains and continue to farm ISK for our shiney ships. Many have already taken that path.

I will however look at changes made by CCP concerning other activities to limit afk ISK farming. There is the change to ice belts. There is the AI change that did a nice job limiting the old afk lvl 4 missioning with drone boats. There is the fact that with the mining rebalance, even the barges net a higher vulnerability for the higher possible reward. Nope, can't see any patterns here, might as well resign the FW mechanic to just another ISK faucet free for the taking rather than a real feature that many people do actually want to do, actively, like an MMO or something.

I am not here to argue with trolls. I hate posting in most any forum because I prefer to take in others views and weigh them with mine. If the problem here isn't obvious, perhaps you haven't bothered trying the feature or as suggested earlier, you are more likely part of the problem. Hopefully we will see more constructive discussion here and maybe even some fresh ideas we can all get behind. The multiple timer suggestion seems a decent alternative to rollbacks. I personally would still just rather see a rollback at normal rate if the plex isn't occupied by a faction.

While I share some of the op's concerns regarding manticores and day old executioners spinning around, it might be considered that the reason there are lazy farmers is that the people who are supposed to be defending the systems are themselves too lazy to defend them.

The recent change in that you have to get in decloaking range to activate a gate is a plus for those trying to defend against such people. Smartbombs can kill bombers and the fact that an interceptor is faster than a bomber means you can beat them to the punch when it comes to getting in front of them. You could also have some patience and wait in their missions for them to appear. Maybe even use a stealth bomber of your own with its 0 retargeting time after decloaking. Time = isk after all.

Maybe even track to where their home base is and use some insta-lock thrashers to scare them.

Our opponents fly PVP fits, this thread is about plex farmers.

CCP has all the motivation to curb plex farming, because it breaks the whole risk/reward structure of the game, it breaks FW sovereignty mechanics and makes the players interested in FW disappointed with the gameplay.

As you really seem to be hard on defending plex farming, you can stop repeating the same counterarguments that have already been proven wrong multiple times, and instead give us a list of reasons why exploiting a flaw in a game mechanic to amass high end ISK income without any risk, SP or gear investment just by sitting in a spot in space and affecting FW warzone control has to be preserved- in your opinion of course, since you and that other troll are the only ones in EVE defending FW plex farming.

We don't need to track the farmers to their home base because they are constantly in ours (hence the farming).

.....

My wet dream (one of them anyway):
- Plexing LP removed or reduced to a pittance and plexes rebalanced to force/encourage appropriate ship.
- PvP LP increased manyfold to be paid out doing the boring stuff (act as multiplier for plex LP).
- Main farming LP glut moved back to missions.
- Missions only spawning in enemy held space, and
- Neutrals getting officially involved. They have been a major part of FW life since the beginning, time to 'reward' them for staying the course

I'm afraid that asserting that my arguments are wrong doesn't make it so, and the claim that everyone agrees with you bar a couple of posters in this thread is manifestly false (like a significant number of the other demonstrably untrue statements you and your corp mates have been floating here - some of them are just out and out lies ).

Your conception of plex farming as exploiting a game mechanic is simply wrong. It is a tactic that can be defeated easily, as has been repeatedly demonstrated, you're just too lazy to do so. It does not break the whole risk/reward structure of the game because a) it does involve risk, as your corp's killboard demonstrates; b) it can be defeated by those willing to do so, as your corp's killboard demonstrates; c) and while it may make some leet PvP FW players disappointed with the game because it makes them work, that is really their problem and not an issue with the mechanics.

You just seem pissed that people with low skillpoints and without expensive gear don't die instantly to high sp players flying shiney ships. Frankly, this is a good thing in my opinion.