I don't even have the words for how excellent that post was.

Also funny how you point out the Zealot is inferior to the Legion (which is true) yet you see Zealot fleets far more often than Legion fleets.

Why? Quite frankly it's because the Legion's increased strengths still don't really justify the increased cost and SP loss upon destruction.

when I challenge people to provide examples of T3s making T2 cruisers that would be used if the T3s didn't exist* obsolete, actual examples are hard to come by.

I think that's because people don't use T3s as alternatives to T2 cruisers. They use them as alternatives to battleships, which is where the problem lies.

You know nothing. It's all speculation. The difference between T2 and T3 is close minimal. Who would spend 500 mill on a cruiser that tanks somewhere between a Thorax and a Deimos. Especially given the skill loss of T3. Hopefully devs are not that ********.

But yeah unless it's on Sisi being tested, in a dev blog or in patch notes you know as much as I do. Which is nothing. One dev may have expressed an idea but afaik the development of EvE is a team thing subject to a specific development process.

They also use T2 cruisers as alternatives to battleships.

I'm still sceptical. Can you give examples?

The reson for my scepticism is that I see a hell of a lot of battleships on the killboards. T3s are good for some jobs, but in my limited experience, not for the jobs I see BS doing.

What is the main draw of BSes? Tank and damage application, T2 cruisers don't compare with BSes in either of those areas.


Tengu fleets, which I know you've encountered frequently. Do you think the Russians would have fielded T2s against us if T3s were inferior? I don't think they would, they'd use Rokhs instead.

T2 do compare to battleships in terms of tank and damage application (actual dps / tank including RR) in many instances. The only reason battleships are going to be used is cost and range (with associated dps drops to sub hac bc damage).

What is the main draw of BSes? Tank and damage application, T2 cruisers don't compare with BSes in either of those areas.


Tengu fleets, which I know you've encountered frequently. Do you think the Russians would have fielded T2s against us if T3s were inferior? I don't think they would, they'd use Rokhs instead.

All of that info came from dev blogs, dev posts, fanfest announcements and several AMAs.

T3 will be nerfed to fit them into the cruiser lineup where they belong.

I was referring to range when I said damage application, although I think the DPS is still a little better in BSes too. Cruisers tank the same with reps, or more with T2 resists but they lack buffer, which makes them easier to alpha.

Which BS have been made obsolete by tengu fleets?

I'm not arguing that BSes have been made obsolete by T3s so I'm not sure if your question is relevant. I'm saying they're more comparable to BSes than other cruisers are (due to tank) and that they are more comparable to BSes than they are to other cruisers. They outclass all cruisers greatly in combat roles.

The only time range is really going to be important is fleet fights

So in the majority of EVE pvp which is not the two instances above

While a battleship may have more EHP on paper it also takes signficantly more dps from all incoming damage than smaller faster ships like HAC.

Except HAC and HIC's and umm Logistics :) So No they don't. Oh and Pirate cruisers (well some of them).

And yet battleships can kill both effectively, it just happens to be a game of fitting your ship for the specific role.

You have to fit a T2 or T3 cruiser accordingly in order to kill battleships. Likewise, you have to use specific battleships and fit them accordingly in order to kill T2 and T3 cruisers

I don't really consider HICs and Logi to be combat roles, as such. I mean, a logi boat isn't winning any fights and I don't think a HIC is either.

How so? If I want to kill a battleship in a Prot all I need is blasters, prop mod (usually I use 10mn AB), scram and cap injector with 400's. 1600 plate, hardners, mag stab and dcu...

If I want to kill a cruiser / bc I'll use the same thing....

No need to fit differently in a T3, HAC, or any other ship.

The only time that changes is against an ECM / Neut or specialist battleship like a Mach or Dominix... the rest of the general tank and spank BS need no special refitting... they die very easily

I don't really consider HICs and Logi to be combat roles, as such. I mean, a logi boat isn't winning any fights and I don't think a HIC is either.

Nobody asked for your input. Nobody wanted a solo analysis.

The problem with this post is that almost everything in it is completely wrong.

Malcanis, your argument doesn't make much sense. Just because T3s don't obsolete other ships, that doesn't mean they're balanced. The fact we're arguing about T3s in a BS thread should be indicative of that.

We could be arguing about HACs too. Does that mean HACs are too powerful since they can be used in place of BS?

Is a fleet of HACs reasonably matched against an appropriate fleet of BSes? I'm not sure, I haven't been involved in null sov stuff since before the HAC rebalance.

The few that do are usually designed with HACs in mind.

Most battleship doctrines don't do very well against HACs.

Then I guess they'll do even worse against T3s.