Not with the appropriate fleet you mentioned.

Indeed. My point is that we can argue about HACs being OP if you want, but every point you make in that argument will only strengthen my argument that T3s are OP because T3s, in general, outclass HACs.

Did you seriously just compare our AFK Ishtar fit against that Proteus fit? A faction fit Proteus no less?

It'd be different if I compared a faction fit Ishtar against a T2 Proteus and said, "see the Ishtar is almost as good" however I did the reverse. The T2 fit Ishtar (HAC) is close to as good as the faction fit T3 apart from the EHP which would still be well in excess of the Ishtar even with T2. So it doesn't matter.

Edit: Also since there were a distinct lack of T3's on the killboard, I had to choose something, no T2 fit ones on there :)

Its not exactly shocking that ishtars show up a lot as most powerblocks fly fleets of them simply for the drone assist.

Plus they're way better than T3's. Like I said earlier, I have all 5's on Proteus and Loki but I use Ishtar. Being able to apply 900dps out to 50km, with tracking that'll instapop interceptors at 30k or less, 700 dps out to 100km, 600 to 130... 150m sig...

No T3 can get even close to that.

Did you consider WHY that might be? Ok, lets pretend we're comparing apples with apples here. I can squint hard enough for that.

Here's a thought; perhaps the KB looks the way it does is because a faction fit T3 cruiser is less likely to die in combat than a PVE fit Ishtar. Gee, it's almost as if one of these apples is actually a hand grenade painted red, and the other is just an apple.

Guess which one is just an apple.

T3 wipe the floor with them if not for the instant and perfect hitting alpha and the need to retrain for the subsystem if you do die. Incidently, how much ehp does this max dps ishtar have?

Also its more common in my opinion that a T3 pvp ship, pretty much any pvp ship, will die more often then a PvE fit Ishtar. The latter should very rarely die at all.

30k or thereabouts.

T3 might wipe the floor with them but likely purely based on the inordinate amount of EHP and only if they manage to get in range. Which is quite a feat with some HACS.

T3 will rip them apart.

I'm not arguing that BSes have been made obsolete by T3s so I'm not sure if your question is relevant. I'm saying they're more comparable to BSes than other cruisers are (due to tank) and that they are more comparable to BSes than they are to other cruisers. They outclass all cruisers greatly in combat roles.

T3 will rip them apart.

Which is, naturally, why you found a stack of dead T3s on our killboards, rather than PVE Ishtars...

Oh wait.

Only the magic ones, the normal ones have limitations which could cause them to die vs HAC.

So you assert. Which cruisers in which roles?

T3 wipe the floor with them if not for the instant and perfect hitting alpha and the need to retrain for the subsystem if you do die. Incidently, how much ehp does this max dps ishtar have?

HAC, T1, faction.

Really most of the GrrrrT3s threads where because HACs were terrible or because certain demographics really hated off grid boosting. What's left now? GrrrrT3s are flown as fleetships! But so are battleships still! This is a problem because GrrrT3!

Which T3 obsoletes the Falcon?

Which T3 obsoletes the Falcon?

So should T3s be balanced against cruisers or battleships? They can't have the best of both worlds.

Why should they be balanced against either?

They don't have to be balanced against either. Perhaps entirely new roles could be found for them but why are you being so slippery about it?