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Kaylana Syi
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Posted - 2006.03.21 15:31:00 -
[181]
Edited by: Kaylana Syi on 21/03/2006 15:31:31 I don't care if I have to train missile skills. I have both L Proj Specialties at 4 and I am training torps to 5 for naglfar, the only skill I need to make it complete.
I don't care about pve, I am not a missile junkie. 1 don't have much sp invested in them... along the same sp nafri has probably. So... whatever.
@Wiz...
Don't even remember what I said in your post about t2 ammo but tech 2 ammo is a joke at every level. The thread I remember one semi-trolling [but was very serious] recently is the Domi needs pg thread... which is a totally joke.
Whatever, you all can think of the typhoon how you want I will still fly it. Doesn't matter to me if it has 4 missile slots or 8 or 4 turret slots or 8... my speed and missile suggestion was for people who were asking for the speed bonus and why I think it would have to be missiles if it was 4+4. Obviosly [lowblow] you are inept enought to read english and read everything as ambiguously and err on the negative side.
Somepeople just want the ship to make sense.
Originally by: "Oveur" I don't react to threats any better than you do
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Al Haquis
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Posted - 2006.03.21 15:43:00 -
[182]
Seeing that i am posting in all the Minnie ship threads today i will do it here .
I Dig the changes. To the person whining about not beeing abile to fit Siege launchers and big guns and a major armour tank , WHY DONT you try to Fit a Death star there also.
cant wait to test this ship after the changes .
Was thinking in these lines.
High
4x 1200 4x Cruise missile launchers
Med
Sensor booster 2 tracking comp 2 painter 2 100 mn ab
Low
3x gyro2 3x BCU2 and if we are in a BE mood , 2 wcs.
Then 5 sentry drones :)
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Council Member, Tahiri Warrior Masuat'aa Forums
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Kaylana Syi
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Posted - 2006.03.21 16:04:00 -
[183]
Edited by: Kaylana Syi on 21/03/2006 16:05:15
Originally by: Cmd Woodlouse 6 Hislots, only turrets, half dronebay
10% falloff, 5% proj. damage
switch armor with shield
It would then always be a bastard Tempest.
You would need 2 RCU II to begin to fit 6 1400 IIs. Its slots would become :
6 1400 IIs
2x Sensor booster IIs, 2 tracking computer 2s
3 Gyro IIs, 2 RCU IIs and 2 whatever ( wcs, tracking enhancer, sensor amp etc )
Why would people fly that over a Tempest? Which is the problem we have now. An armageddon would do equivelant or better in fleet combat with beams.
As for AC Phoon
6 x 650 IIs
MWD/AB , Cap Injector, web, scram
Dual L Rep, hardners etc
Why would this be any better than a Tempest, which will most certainly have 2 Large NOS? Drones? I think 2 Large NoS and 5 Medium Drones are better than 5 Medium Drones. Especially on smaller targets.
AKA... bastard ship even more.
Originally by: "Oveur" I don't react to threats any better than you do
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KilROCK
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Posted - 2006.03.21 16:06:00 -
[184]
i'd like to have 5/4 (turret/missiles). Feels like a big cyclone slot wise like that.
Originally by: Ithildin Q: Will the Gallente ship have lots of missiles? I think it's time. A: Die. You are not |
Severa Crest
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Posted - 2006.03.21 16:30:00 -
[185]
I think whatever happens CCP have to give some incentive to fit guns on the phoon. 4 x projectile turrets with only 5% ROF wont be worth fitting over levering as much nos into those 4 slots as possible.
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Nafri
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Posted - 2006.03.21 16:42:00 -
[186]
Originally by: Pesadel0
Originally by: smallgreenblur
Originally by: Nafri but back then my 1million SP in missles were more than enough
So fricking true.
/me stops training gunnery skills and goes to find some missiles ones.
sgb
P.S. i actually quite like that 4/4 setup for the new phoon, should give out a decent dps since it uses all 8 slots, unlike many of the other bs out there.
sgb
Back in the days of the 1400 apocs?
Or when we had to whine a 20 page tempest thread, to receive the boost to 1400 ?
I know the devs have alot of work but some things take so long it ,seems its eternal ..
Make the typhhon the last hope,when last hope is activated ,phoon has 20 seconds then it selfdestructs doing massive damage in a 15Km radius.
BOnus:
5% to afterburner velocity
5% to armor repairer velocity.
back when m0o terrorized FA
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Imhotep Khem
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Posted - 2006.03.21 17:07:00 -
[187]
I think they need to address two issues
1. The low skill efficiency of the Typhoon. 2. The low effective bonus per slot ratio of the Typhoon. ____ If your not dyin' your not tryin'. |
Kaylana Syi
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Posted - 2006.03.21 19:24:00 -
[188]
Originally by: Imhotep Khem I think they need to address two issues
1. The low skill efficiency of the Typhoon. 2. The low effective bonus per slot ratio of the Typhoon.
QFT
Originally by: "Oveur" I don't react to threats any better than you do
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Sarmaul
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Posted - 2006.03.21 19:33:00 -
[189]
never forget that a 25% rof bonus to 4 turrets and a 25% rof bonus to 4 missiles gives the typhoon a single 25% rof bonus to it's highslots, basically leaving it without a second bonus.
37.5% or more please.
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Wizie
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Posted - 2006.03.21 20:56:00 -
[190]
Originally by: Kaylana Syi Edited by: Kaylana Syi on 21/03/2006 15:31:31 I don't care if I have to train missile skills. I have both L Proj Specialties at 4 and I am training torps to 5 for naglfar, the only skill I need to make it complete.
I don't care about pve, I am not a missile junkie. 1 don't have much sp invested in them... along the same sp nafri has probably. So... whatever.
@Wiz...
Don't even remember what I said in your post about t2 ammo but tech 2 ammo is a joke at every level. The thread I remember one semi-trolling [but was very serious] recently is the Domi needs pg thread... which is a totally joke.
Whatever, you all can think of the typhoon how you want I will still fly it. Doesn't matter to me if it has 4 missile slots or 8 or 4 turret slots or 8... my speed and missile suggestion was for people who were asking for the speed bonus and why I think it would have to be missiles if it was 4+4. Obviosly [lowblow] you are inept enought to read english and read everything as ambiguously and err on the negative side.
Somepeople just want the ship to make sense.
I dont know what you are ranting about...
The tech II ammo was with regards to the EXTRA penalty that Proj ammo gets (4 as opposed to 3 for every other race).
The missile bonus is something I am against, I like KR's ideas better. It has nothing to do with reading ability only with personal choice, and I think your idea was junk.
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Wizie
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Posted - 2006.03.21 20:59:00 -
[191]
Originally by: Cmd Woodlouse 6 Hislots, only turrets, half dronebay
10% falloff, 5% proj. damage
switch armor with shield
Dont mind the 6 turret idea but halving the dronebay is silly.
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General Meridus
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Posted - 2006.03.21 21:02:00 -
[192]
I don't think the average pilot really knows how good this ship will be with the proposed missle bonus. I can set this beast up many different ways. I already hold my own with any other race battle ship.
It has a massive tank, lower sig, huge drone bay, and is fast. I can load a wave of heavy drones, and have room for 10 more lights, or another wave of mediums. I think of it as an advanced battle ship, in that it does take many, many skill points to use effectively. However, with high skill points the ship catches, then passes the others.
I have max battle ship skills in 3 races, I always end up flying the phoon.
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Wizie
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Posted - 2006.03.21 21:09:00 -
[193]
Originally by: General Meridus I don't think the average pilot really knows how good this ship will be with the proposed missle bonus. I can set this beast up many different ways. I already hold my own with any other race battle ship.
It has a massive tank, lower sig, huge drone bay, and is fast. I can load a wave of heavy drones, and have room for 10 more lights, or another wave of mediums. I think of it as an advanced battle ship, in that it does take many, many skill points to use effectively. However, with high skill points the ship catches, then passes the others.
I have max battle ship skills in 3 races, I always end up flying the phoon.
I have flown every BS in game with maxed skills (except for the Caldari stuff) and I hardly ever pick the phoon over other BS.
Heck with good drone skills and nearly maxed gunnery (only auto spec 5 remains), Minmatar BS 5 and Gallente BS 4, I would pick the Dominix over the phoon..
The whole argument of after maxing out all skills in Eve you maybe able to do awesome things with this ship is a rather weak method of reasoning.
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Sarmaul
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Posted - 2006.03.21 21:11:00 -
[194]
Originally by: Wizie The whole argument of after maxing out all skills in Eve you maybe able to do awesome things with this ship is a rather weak method of reasoning.
Not only is it weak, it's false.
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Kaylana Syi
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Posted - 2006.03.21 21:56:00 -
[195]
Edited by: Kaylana Syi on 21/03/2006 21:58:32 Problem with the whole split issue on highs isn't that its inferior becaue it is far from it. The problem lies with they require far more effort to balance.
You can err on the side of negligance, and both bonii to one half of the ships highs.
You can err on the side of too little too late and split the bonii to achieve 1 complete bonus comparatively. Both prove to be a 'too little too late cya next major revisioning next year and a half,' scenario I sure dont' want to repeat.
I say choose a high bonus, give it 2 times what would normally would have gotten then apply a bonus to something else independant of the high slots.
EG if you keep a 4/4 highslot:
10% AB Max Velocity 10% Projectile Damage swap shield hp to armor
-or-
5% Ship Speed 10% Missile RoF swap shield hp to armor
-or-
Increase Ship speed by 20% base value Give 5% RoF to proj. Give 7.5% RoF to Missiles swap shield hp to armor
Edit : Right now 4 d.650 on phoon != 4 d.650 on Tempest in damage.
Originally by: "Oveur" I don't react to threats any better than you do
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Pesadel0
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Posted - 2006.03.21 22:08:00 -
[196]
Quote:
EG if you keep a 4/4 highslot:
10% AB Max Velocity 10% Projectile Damage swap shield hp to armor
That would make me a happy matar.
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Sean Drake
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Posted - 2006.03.21 22:35:00 -
[197]
Actually I like the look of this new Typhoon. tbh I don't see a problem with it now I admit it is kinda skill intensive but I think it could be worth it. I look at as the exact opposite of the scorp good defense but the fire power of a box of cheap fireworks. New Typhoon slightly sucky defense but between the Turrets,Missles and Drones this ship is going to be able to open a can of whoop ass. I will be taking proj to lvl5 to try it out anyway. Besides if you train missles and still don't like it you can come see how good the Cal bs's really are with your new skills.
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Kashre
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Posted - 2006.03.22 05:18:00 -
[198]
Edited by: Kashre on 22/03/2006 05:21:07 Haha... man I look at people who say minmatar are all about guns... then I look at how NO MINMATAR WARSHIP CURRENTLY IN THE GAME HAS ZERO MISSILE SLOTS, and a good number of them have enough missile slots to fill 50% of their highs...
And then I laugh.
If you people are only training gun skills than you're missing out on a LOT of the flexibility that minmatar ships have to offer.
Read my virtual lips: We. Do. Not. Need. Another. Gun Based. Battleship.
The tempest is a gunship. The tier 3 BS is going to be a gunship. There is no reason to make the phoon into a wana-be tempest.
What we really need is a good EW ship.. but they're not going to do that with the phoon...
so, I see 2 options...
1> do the oposite of what the amarr do: make our tier 1 a monster tank since our tier 2 is the monster (haha) damage dealer.
2> give us enough bonuses to utilize all of our high slots and make it a damage machine, as much as possible with projectile DOT. Which is what they're doing... so Im happy as long as the bonuses are high enough to balance. +++
It's called "low security space" for a reason. |
KilROCK
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Posted - 2006.03.22 05:22:00 -
[199]
Originally by: Kashre
If you people are only training gun skills than you're missing out on a LOT of the flexibility that minmatar ships have to offer.
Read my virtual lips: We. Do. Not. Need. Another. Gun Based. Battleship.
Read my Virtual lips: We. Do. Not. Need. A. Half. Assed. Minmatar. Version. Of. A. Raven. As. a. Tier. 3. Bs. in. Kali.
Minmatar have missile hardpoints, you choose to use them or you choose to use something else. The way the typhoon is getting changed. It doesn't mean you have to go all out in missile training for speccing and whatever for 1, i repeat. 1 Battleship we have that Might use more than 2 missile hardpoint on it.
Level 4 skills on missile skilltree are more than enough as minmatar ships are mostly at 80% turret oriented while using 1-2 launchers on most ships as optional damage. Most fit nos, and i won't stop doing it
Originally by: Ithildin Q: Will the Gallente ship have lots of missiles? I think it's time. A: Kill yourself, you don't deserve to live. |
Kashre
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Posted - 2006.03.22 05:32:00 -
[200]
Edited by: Kashre on 22/03/2006 05:33:54
Originally by: KilROCK
Originally by: Kashre
If you people are only training gun skills than you're missing out on a LOT of the flexibility that minmatar ships have to offer.
Read my virtual lips: We. Do. Not. Need. Another. Gun Based. Battleship.
Read my Virtual lips: We. Do. Not. Need. A. Half. Assed. Minmatar. Version. Of. A. Raven. As. a. Tier. 3. Bs. in. Kali.
Uhm... we're talking about the current tier 1 BS, not the tier 3 in kali.
In any event, just cause you give the phoon a bonus to missiles doesnt make it resemble a raven in any way shape or form.
Its an armor tank. Its a fast ship. It has a huge drone bay. Its way rustier. It will have a much different kind of flexibility from the raven.
AC+missiles? It works. AC + nos? It works. Missiles + nos? It works too.
It will be able to increase its DOT across all 8 turrets! How can that not be a good thing? If I want a crappy gunship, I'll take a tempest and only put 5 guns on it. This way it (the phoon) maintains the thing that makes it unique.
Any minmatar who doesnt train the basic misile spec skills up to a decent level is loosing out bigtime on all the ships we fly anyways. It doesnt take THAT much training... and you dont HAVE to use t2 launchers. You probably cant use all t2 launchers and guns with any kind of decent setup on a phoon anyways. Not enough grid.
+++
It's called "low security space" for a reason. |
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KilROCK
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Posted - 2006.03.22 05:37:00 -
[201]
Edited by: KilROCK on 22/03/2006 05:38:33
Quote: Its an armor tank. Its a fast ship. It has a huge drone bay. Its way rustier. It will have a much different kind of flexibility from the raven.
The ship only gets more flexibility. It's like people saying the dominix isn't best with nos. It's better with guns. Then you get the typhoon. It's better with missiles than nos, but does it matter if you can use them when you can break a tank with the nos faster?
And oh. Dual 425mm II + 4 Cruise launcher II, 20km, heavy cap injector, AB, web. (whatever mids tbh). 2 Large rep, 3 t2 Hardener,1600mm tungsten or Damage control or 20% energized adaptive nano, RCU II
Sure, It even fits with Siege launcher. It's a nice setup. I'd still use my nos setup over that.
Originally by: Ithildin Q: Will the Gallente ship have lots of missiles? I think it's time. A: Kill yourself, you don't deserve to live. |
OrangeAfroMan
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Posted - 2006.03.22 06:01:00 -
[202]
Originally by: KilROCK It's better with missiles than nos, but does it matter if you can use them when you can break a tank with the nos faster?
It's a nice setup. I'd still use my nos setup over that.
Thats exactly what I'm saying in the Minmatar missle ship post.. They either dont have enough bonuses/hardpoints to make it worth using missles over nos.. Or in this case not enough for using missles + guns instead of guns + nos. Minmatar might as well have Nos as their secondary weapon type.. Because thats all that ever gets used 90% of the time in those missle hardpoints...
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Malvan
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Posted - 2006.03.22 10:49:00 -
[203]
Fix it like the Cyclone's boost bonus, multiply it by 1.5 for each bonus.
Since most ships with similar bonus can concetrate on a single weapon. with +5ROF/+5Dam, give the split-weapon ships a 1.5x bonus to each weapon. So maybe +7.5% missile ROF and +7.5% Proj ROF. Not a double bonus to each but the flexibility is still there and it's better than having the equivalent of a single DPS bonus across all weapons.
'A flag that has no nation makes an enemy of the world' - The Golden Apple. |
Lucian Alucard
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Posted - 2006.03.22 11:25:00 -
[204]
I always liked the idea of it being a armor tanking,missle spamming,drone zerging monster of gankage. ----------------------------------------------- Done is done Yes, there will be no taking back Every journey must come to an end All hail to the Gunslinger Beyond our reach, out of control |
Naughty Boy
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Posted - 2006.03.22 11:33:00 -
[205]
I don't really understand why some of you want those damage bonuses so badly. The only reason for the low damage of the typhoon (in comparison to other battleships with damage mods) is the split weapon system. It is not because of the typhoon lacking damage in itself and damage bonuses aren't going to help.
As the ship doesn't get much out of weapon upgrades - in other words, and as the marginal advantage of fitting them is so low because of the split weapon hardpoints - it gets more out of tanking and as a result, nosferatus and neutralizers are used to help the tank and help breaking tanks faster/easier (... and also because it increases the versatility of the fitting, but that's not really the point here).
In the end, the ship isn't versatile when it comes to fitting it, but is versatile once fitted. I know i won't fly the typhoon, new bonuses or not, if i can't have more versatility when fitting the ship. 4 missiles hardpoints/4 turrets hardpoints is a no go for me. I understand that some people might like it but it sounds very selfish to argue that it's an option that we can't have because they don't want to have it. An option never gets a negative value so there's no loss for anyone.
Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy.
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Krige
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Posted - 2006.03.22 11:56:00 -
[206]
Points to agree on:
The Typhoon does require high skills to fly well It doesn't have as clear a role as other ships It does have a bit of a problem
Personal views:
The Missile RoF bonus would be fantastic. Certainly for my setup, this would seriously improve the ship. More armor would be nice too of course...
But please CCP:
Don't make it something it isn't. It's an oddball ship, it taked more getting used to, more setup effort, and more training than any other ship I've flown, but please don't make me waste the time spent in a phoon so far - improve its strengths as they stand. No need to be sidetracked by those who simply want a small Tempest, or a Minmatar Scorpion or whatever.
K.
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Leandro Salazar
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Posted - 2006.03.22 11:58:00 -
[207]
The low damage due to split weapons can be almost negated through 7.5% bonuses though (almost because the disadvantage remains when you fit damage mods). Other people have done the math here already and I hope CCP sees it and includes it. It would finally give those split slot ships a reason for existance other than being 'different'.
___________________________________
Evacuate? In our moment of triumph? |
Xantina
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Posted - 2006.03.22 12:16:00 -
[208]
I think the one thing I don't like is that in order to fly this tier 1 BS with some efficiency I almost need more skills than for the tier 2 tempest. This doesn't seem right.
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Krige
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Posted - 2006.03.22 12:22:00 -
[209]
Originally by: Xantina I think the one thing I don't like is that in order to fly this tier 1 BS with some efficiency I almost need more skills than for the tier 2 tempest. This doesn't seem right.
Well, sort of. But I suspect that Scorpion pilots feel the same.
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FunkerVogt
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Posted - 2006.03.22 12:43:00 -
[210]
Love my typhoon; I suppose it comes from always favoring the underdog. Anyway, it armor tanks beautifully; the cpu is higher than a tempest, which is nice, considering it's virtually worthless to shield tank if you want anything other than hardeners and a booster + boost amplifier or some form of afterburner. Webber? Waste of space, imo, drones should pick up the slack, considering the drone bay is a strong point. The split layout is disappointing; I agree with most people on that fact. There simply isn't enough grid to make effective use, even with perfect skills - either you have four siege for highest potential or you sac those for artillery. The RoF bonus is nice; the optimal range isn't worth looking at - again, I agree with RoF of missiles is a good idea. Considering it has a little less armor on shield + armor, I think maybe a resist bonus or overall armor bonus would be a nice perk, too.
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