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Imhotep Khem	Posted - 2006.03.18 06:20:00 - [1] Edited by: Imhotep Khem on 18/03/2006 06:22:17 Originally by: Tuxford It's not really a far off from being a good ship. The optimal range bonus is mostly wasted on it so we've changed it to launcher rate of fire. It still has that split weapon system you hate so much but you should be more satisfied with the damage output of it. This ship will require more skills to fly than a Tempest. Split bonus is not just undesireable, its unfair. Note that the split would then be, Guns/Drones/Missiles. Its just bad. Please reconsider. There is a thread that is quite long where we tossed around several ideas. Try some of those, excluding ANY that create split weapons. You will just have to fix that 4-4 layout. This is also bad for the Jaguar, but thats another story. Specilization wins all the time in games. ____ If your not dyin' your not tryin'.
Tiuwaz	Posted - 2006.03.18 06:49:00 - [2] phoon will be a nice ship with missile rof bonus ( and a few other fixes like switching shield/armour hp etc) the only sour point is that are you gonna need about 2-3 years of skilling to fly the phoon to its potential Originally by: Oveur ****! Lets nerf it! To the nerfmobile!
Foulis	Posted - 2006.03.18 06:58:00 - [3] 4x Siege + 4x Nos + Wicked armor tank and mwd isn't good? ---- I <3 Taranis Cake > Pie - Imaran Originally by: CCP Hammer Boobies
KilROCK	Posted - 2006.03.18 07:02:00 - [4] Switch shield HP to Armor HP.............
Nyphur	Posted - 2006.03.18 07:04:00 - [5] Originally by: Foulis 4x Siege + 4x Nos + Wicked armor tank and mwd isn't good? I like how you think. Personally, I like any setup that makes heavy use of nos, especially if it's to run an uber tank. Eve-Tanking.com - For the ultimate tanking spreadsheet and resources.
Tiuwaz	Posted - 2006.03.18 07:11:00 - [6] who let that ugly Gallente face into a thread full of strong and pretty Brutors? Originally by: Oveur ****! Lets nerf it! To the nerfmobile!
Koth Krakenworth	Posted - 2006.03.18 08:19:00 - [7] Originally by: Foulis 4x Siege + 4x Nos + Wicked armor tank and mwd isn't good? Oh, this setup soo makes use of the new bonus. In fact, it makes such a good use of it you still only use one of the two phoon bonuses. You will have zero use for the projectile bonus, great use for the ship, eh? I actually like to fly the same setup, but with large projectiles instead of sieges with drone backup. Does wonders for me too. Yet if you change one of the bonuses to missiles, all I'll recieve is just a slight nerf even if I actually prefer the race weapon above caldari's missiles. Makes a lot of sense? Not to me. I agree with the threadmaker, don't split the phoons weapon systems up in 3 pieces, and especially not with 2 that both require heavy skilltraining. Give it a bonus to be used for something else then an other weapon system such as a navigation bonus, EW (like nos since this seem to be popular with the phoon), drones etc. Something that will not make it even a more jack of all trades and impossibility to train up for. I have 20m SP specialized in minmatar, yet no decent missile skills (which require an other 7-8m or so), because very few minmatar ships would ever require you to use missiles. Many have the possibility, an extra tool in the toolbox (and the toolbox is minmatars biggest strenght), but you can always avoid using this out-of-race weaponry if you don't want to. Making missiles a weapon that would be a heavy part of a minmatar BS would be silly, why the hell would I want to put 8m of SP into an other group of weapons just to give the phoon the same edge as people who only got 8m SP in one of the 4 weapon categories? Sure, this bonus might help the average skill-low character who doesn't have decent skills in any of the weapon groups anyways, but why would you want to give the people who specialized in minmatar an other extreme load of skilltraining? Some people actually have high standards, they want the possibility to spend months in recieving extra high bonuses in their ships. But it's not possible if you need to spend almost an extra half a year in training just to make maximum potential of half of a ships weapon systems, and only for one of the race's ships. It's honestly just an other kick in the nuts to true minmatar pilots. While some ofcourse also have missile-skills along with projectiles, a great deal decided to run for projectiles only as well. Worked so far. But apparently, race specialization is just something that will never be possible for minmatar pilots anyways. Projectiles, drones, missiles, nowadays all extremly heavy in skill which they weren't during the time the phoon was first introduced. This bonus could have worked 2 years ago, but today it doesn't make sense for a lot of people with high skill standards. Heck, they might just as well introduce the other 2 weapon weapon systems as well and have wannabe cool minmatar pilots train everything in game to become good in their race of preference. People say that if you want to be good in minmatar, you need to specialize. But there's a limit to where specialization ends and all-round begins. By making a ship use 3/5 weapon systems, you are not making a ship that can be sensibly specialized in. Even new characters might want to get the most out of their BS, which will feel like a total impossibility for them, making them run for other ships instead. Why spend 2 years learning how to fly a phoon when you can spend 1 year becoming a king in a scorp or domi. Vote missileskill for the phoon, vote for kicking down minmatar specialists who almost managed to stand on their feet! "It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems just with potatoes."
Spartan239	Posted - 2006.03.18 08:34:00 - [8] Originally by: Tiuwaz who let that ugly Gallente face into a thread full of strong and pretty Brutors? Wizie is the only good looking brutor
Nyphur	Posted - 2006.03.18 08:52:00 - [9] Originally by: Tiuwaz who let that ugly Gallente face into a thread full of strong and pretty Brutors? It's a mask, I swear! Eve-Tanking.com - For the ultimate tanking spreadsheet and resources.
Aloysius Knight	Posted - 2006.03.18 08:58:00 - [10] i personly have been drooling over the change i love the idea of a split wep system as it alows for so many diffent setups then other ships makes people think before having a go at ya "oh will he have all nos, or 4 auto 4 seige or 4 nos..." and so on can't what for sisi to come bak online and for it to hit TQ and to the guy whos so "hardcore minmater" why don't you have any missile skills, becuase if your so hard about flying minnnie ships then ud have missiles skills for typhoon ruppie all other minnie ships they have the slots for them as well and you would really ahve to change the whole slot lay out and bonus if you droped the split wep system and finaly all those for a 5th turret woopty ferking doo, it would still SUCK!! MISSILE ROF BOUNS 4TW WWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE Haha can't touch this!

Percy Loudbottom	Posted - 2006.03.18 09:12:00 - [11] 90% of my pvp setups on the phoon that I really like are missile/nos setups. This change is good for that. Im not worried about not getting the second bonus applied to the DOT of my weapons anyways. That is hardly limited to the phoon. Also, this will make my long range 1400/cruise pve setups (which actually work supprisingly well, for pve) a hell of a lot better than they are currently.
Koth Krakenworth	Posted - 2006.03.18 09:23:00 - [12] Originally by: Aloysius Knight and to the guy whos so "hardcore minmater" why don't you have any missile skills, becuase if your so hard about flying minnnie ships then ud have missiles skills for typhoon ruppie all other minnie ships they have the slots for them as well If you had bothered to read the post, you would have read that no other minmatar ship, except ofcourse the stealth bomber, would require you to have badass missileskills to get most out of the ship. In all other ships, it's just an option, if you want you can always go 100% projectiles and still get most out of the ship. In the case of the new phoon however, only 15m SP or so in weaponry can make it at the same level as an other specialist in an other race. It's not fair having to learn 3/5 weapon systems while others require at most 2/5, if even that much. Only other exception I know of is the crazy Sansha Nightmare, but that is an highly optional ship and not a main ship of one of the 4 player races. Amount of players that will be able to use a phoon at full potential are just a handful few compared to other races where specialists can pick whatever BS and apply all of their specialized skills to them. This chance is no fair to specialists as it only gives them unhumanly much to train compared to others. But n00bs rejoice, with drone lvl 1, large projectile lvl 1 and torpedoes lvl 1 you'll have a ship with good damage output compared to any other race BS's you might fly! Too bad any specialist in any race will slaughter you "It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems just with potatoes."
Dexter Rast	Posted - 2006.03.18 10:02:00 - [13] tbh after the changes the phoon is going to be best without nos, imagine a full ac/torp loadout with t2 heavy drones coming at you, you have torps that will hit at all ranges, drones that are good up to 40km away and ac`s from 0-20km, plus a fast battleship that is able to dictate range. all this about split weapon systems isnt a curse, its the minmatar way, forget about the raw dps etc.. this ship is about variation and adaptability, rejoice for we are minmatar etc... --------------------------------------------- Please resize your forum signature graphic to be smaller than 24,000 bytes in filesize - Jacques
Vishnej	Posted - 2006.03.18 10:07:00 - [14] Edited by: Vishnej on 18/03/2006 10:15:17 Edited by: Vishnej on 18/03/2006 10:09:52 Originally by: Imhotep Khem Edited by: Imhotep Khem on 18/03/2006 06:22:17 Split bonus is not just undesireable, its unfair. Note that the split would then be, Guns/Drones/Missiles. Its just bad. Please reconsider. There is a thread that is quite long where we tossed around several ideas. Try some of those, excluding ANY that create split weapons. You will just have to fix that 4-4 layout. This is also bad for the Jaguar, but thats another story. Specilization wins all the time in games. I disagree, I think that a ship split between two or three different weapon systems can be the pinnacle of ship design - it's also the most difficult to get right. It takes strong bonuses, a good serving of stats, and the right slots. Diversity is good. If you want a pure projectile ship, fly the tempest, if you want a pure missile ship, fly the ravenm and if you want a pure drone ship, fly the domi. My plan for the phoon from months and months ago was to say "It has enough weapons, screw the damage bonuses," and put in some bonuses that allow you to use more than one or two weapons at once. +25% missile velocity and +15% falloff per level. This was before the T2 ammo types screwed up the equation a bit.
KilROCK	Posted - 2006.03.18 10:08:00 - [15] Edited by: KilROCK on 18/03/2006 10:09:41 Originally by: Dexter Rast tbh after the changes the phoon is going to be best without nos, imagine a full ac/torp loadout with t2 heavy drones coming at you, you have torps that will hit at all ranges, drones that are good up to 40km away and ac`s from 0-20km, plus a fast battleship that is able to dictate range. all this about split weapon systems isnt a curse, its the minmatar way, forget about the raw dps etc.. this ship is about variation and adaptability, rejoice for we are minmatar etc... You won't kill alot of tanks by just spitting out damage on a large numbers of battleships without nos. Nos helps your tanking and unless you fit a rcu, i doubt you'll be able to fit 4AC,4 siege/Cruise, Cap injector dual large rep. That's a good tank and you won't last if you don't 'fit' a cap injector with that kind of tank on a pvp typhoon. As for drones, it's 45km with scout op 5. + 3km Per level of Electronic Warfare drones. so that's 60km max. On a side note. As much as i hate this change since i have bassicly no missile skills to bother wasting 4 highslots on them rather than nos (yea the usual torp 4 and support skills 3-4 but that's not 'specced')... This change might force me to train torpedos 5 and therefor... make the naglfar worth using over the moros. (which im training for rather than naglfar).
Leandro Salazar	Posted - 2006.03.18 10:58:00 - [16] Drone bonus instead of projectile bonus 4tw! Only two weapons systems needed to train anymore, and those obsessed with projectiles will just have to fly the Tempest, not like the phoon could ever do better with them than the tempy anyway... ___________________________________ Evacuate? In our moment of triumph?
KilROCK	Posted - 2006.03.18 11:02:00 - [17] Edited by: KilROCK on 18/03/2006 11:02:55 I want: 10% damage to Cruise/torps explosive missiles, 5% to others per level. Bring it, har har
Cilppiz	Posted - 2006.03.18 11:23:00 - [18] So whats the new role of Phoon then, being mixup of domi/raven/ac-pest, and still not being any better than even one of those?
Nafri	Posted - 2006.03.18 11:28:00 - [19] Phoon still has just 1 bonus, compared to 3 the dominix gets and the 2 every other BS gets. Cant we just make it 5% to missle/projectile ROF and 5% to missle/projectile Damage? Then I might thinking about flying this bad excuse for a BS.
Severa Crest	Posted - 2006.03.18 11:34:00 - [20] Edited by: Severa Crest on 18/03/2006 11:34:11 It still wont be worth fitting AC's, i say increase the proj rof bonus to 7.5%.

KilROCK	Posted - 2006.03.18 11:36:00 - [21] Originally by: Severa Crest Edited by: Severa Crest on 18/03/2006 11:34:11 It still wont be worth fitting AC's, i say increase the proj rof bonus to 7.5%. Actually, thats a darned GOOD idea. Megathron is getting 7.5% per level to tracking? Hop hop, I want 37.5% on my tempest ROF!
Sky Hunter	Posted - 2006.03.18 11:45:00 - [22] Typhoon with missle bonus is a dead ship in any kind of solo engagement versus any other BS. 4 autos + 4 nosfs >>>> 4 autos + 4 sieges\cruises in close-combat. Even if launchers are T2. Not even talkin about countering small ships in it. On top of that, afaik major part of any Minmatar pilots aint having 1:1 SP rate in both missles and gunnery. Bonus is useless, no additional grid either! You cant even fit decent weaponary and semi-good tank to it. I think ship will stay exactly as it was, everyone will maybe will fit 1-2 missle laucnhers but it still wont give the same result as other BS where 6 weapon slot used. Why not add a falloff bonus to Typhoon? Let alone grid, but make bonuses like 10% to damage and 5% to falloff or 5% to damage and 10% to falloff? Why not make it a dedicated close-range ship? I just cant get it.... -=-
KilROCK	Posted - 2006.03.18 11:48:00 - [23] I wanted a falloff bonus -.- But what i want more is.. More armor than shield. A 5th turret would be nice but that would be overdoing it. This bonus is nice. It gives caldari *****s a chance to use their uber missiles skills on typhoon with a bunch of nos! omg omg omg!
Grimpak	Posted - 2006.03.18 11:52:00 - [24] what a mess. We have only stuff in paper and everyone is saying "OMG SUX0R! SWITCH BONUS!" Altho I agree that more grid + swaping shield hp for armour hp is also needed, why don't we all wait untill the damn test server is up to try out the new typhoon? that said, TUX WE WANT THE DAMN TEST SERVER! ---------------- Originally by: Abdalion Shoot him ingame if you don't like this person. If you do like him, go mine veldspar with him.
KilROCK	Posted - 2006.03.18 11:55:00 - [25] Originally by: Grimpak what a mess. We have only stuff in paper and everyone is saying "OMG SUX0R! SWITCH BONUS!" Altho I agree that more grid + swaping shield hp for armour hp is also needed, why don't we all wait untill the damn test server is up to try out the new typhoon? that said, TUX WE WANT THE DAMN TEST SERVER! There's something we call math Grimpak, Try it sometimes. It lets you see the viable setups and their DPS and their ability to be useful.
Grimpak	Posted - 2006.03.18 12:02:00 - [26] Edited by: Grimpak on 18/03/2006 12:02:49 Originally by: KilROCK Originally by: Grimpak what a mess. We have only stuff in paper and everyone is saying "OMG SUX0R! SWITCH BONUS!" Altho I agree that more grid + swaping shield hp for armour hp is also needed, why don't we all wait untill the damn test server is up to try out the new typhoon? that said, TUX WE WANT THE DAMN TEST SERVER! There's something we call math Grimpak, Try it sometimes. It lets you see the viable setups and their DPS and their ability to be useful. math and me don't get allong i'm a human sciences student plus I prefer to experience the damn thing first hand and not using theories and such. maks the whole thing more funnier ---------------- Originally by: Abdalion Shoot him ingame if you don't like this person. If you do like him, go mine veldspar with him.
Pesadel0	Posted - 2006.03.18 12:03:00 - [27] Originally by: KilROCK Originally by: Severa Crest Edited by: Severa Crest on 18/03/2006 11:34:11 It still wont be worth fitting AC's, i say increase the proj rof bonus to 7.5%. Actually, thats a darned GOOD idea. Megathron is getting 7.5% per level to tracking? Hop hop, I want 37.5% on my tempest ROF! Mega is getting 7.5% ROF?. But i agree with the OP i'am minmatar only and this bonus sucks ,yeah it could be good on a minmatar/caldari specialist ,but there are pipol that are committed 100% to their projectilles :). As for notion that we need to train missiles to be efective?Hum that is simply not true i have 20M skills(6.5M in gunnary projectilles) and only 500K in missiles and i get along ok just fine .
operated	Posted - 2006.03.18 12:05:00 - [28] HMM sure typhoon is a underdog ,and any other bs might be better , but once you get loads of skills typhoon becomes a beast . The missile bonus gonna be so worth it . I keep reading these threads about how much phoon sucks , but there loads of setups that can suprise your target, and if phoon sucks so much you sure showed them when they go pop .Get those skills up and go wreck havoc .
dabster	Posted - 2006.03.18 12:07:00 - [29] Split bonuses is RETARDED on a ship like Phoon. Give it rof+dmg bonus to large projectiles, and 5 turrets, ya know, like a PROPER SHIP. ___________________________ Brutors Rule! My Eve-vids; Click.
KilROCK	Posted - 2006.03.18 12:07:00 - [30] Originally by: Pesadel0 Originally by: KilROCK Originally by: Severa Crest Edited by: Severa Crest on 18/03/2006 11:34:11 It still wont be worth fitting AC's, i say increase the proj rof bonus to 7.5%. Actually, thats a darned GOOD idea. Megathron is getting 7.5% per level to tracking? Hop hop, I want 37.5% on my tempest ROF! Mega is getting 7.5% ROF?. But i agree with the OP i'am minmatar only and this bonus sucks ,yeah it could be good on a minmatar/caldari specialist ,but there are pipol that are committed 100% to their projectilles :). As for notion that we need to train missiles to be efective?Hum that is simply not true i have 20M skills(6.5M in gunnary projectilles) and only 500K in missiles and i get along ok just fine . No, All ships with 5% tracking hops to 7.5% per level, all with 7.5% hop to 10%. Read sticky.

KilROCK	Posted - 2006.03.18 12:09:00 - [31] Originally by: dabster Split bonuses is RETARDED on a ship like Phoon. Give it rof+dmg bonus to large projectiles, and 5 turrets, ya know, like a PROPER SHIP. No bonus to damage, as it would make it a Mini tempest that can armor tank better, fields more drones, is faster and etc. ROF + Another bonus designed for guns that isn't DAMAGE
Pesadel0	Posted - 2006.03.18 12:13:00 - [32] Originally by: operated HMM sure typhoon is a underdog ,and any other bs might be better , but once you get loads of skills typhoon becomes a beast . The missile bonus gonna be so worth it . I keep reading these threads about how much phoon sucks , but there loads of setups that can suprise your target, and if phoon sucks so much you sure showed them when they go pop .Get those skills up and go wreck havoc . The question here is that phoon is not special ,and that every ship can do what the phoon does even better.And the minmatar ships are the more skill intensive in eve ,i can live with that, but dont make us train all weapons to be efective against a player that trained 3 times less and still kicks our a** to oblivion.
dabster	Posted - 2006.03.18 12:13:00 - [33] Originally by: KilROCK Originally by: dabster Split bonuses is RETARDED on a ship like Phoon. Give it rof+dmg bonus to large projectiles, and 5 turrets, ya know, like a PROPER SHIP. No bonus to damage, as it would make it a Mini tempest that can armor tank better, fields more drones, is faster and etc. ROF + Another bonus designed for guns that isn't DAMAGE I doubt it could tank better than a Tempest with its less pg/cpu/shields/armor/less med. ___________________________ Brutors Rule! My Eve-vids; Click.
KilROCK	Posted - 2006.03.18 12:18:00 - [34] Originally by: dabster Originally by: KilROCK Originally by: dabster Split bonuses is RETARDED on a ship like Phoon. Give it rof+dmg bonus to large projectiles, and 5 turrets, ya know, like a PROPER SHIP. No bonus to damage, as it would make it a Mini tempest that can armor tank better, fields more drones, is faster and etc. ROF + Another bonus designed for guns that isn't DAMAGE I doubt it could tank better than a Tempest with its less pg/cpu/shields/armor/less med. I said 'mini tempest' and by 'tank better', a lowslot is alot better for tanking than a midslot.
Sky Hunter	Posted - 2006.03.18 12:20:00 - [35] Originally by: operated HMM sure typhoon is a underdog ,and any other bs might be better , but once you get loads of skills typhoon becomes a beast . The missile bonus gonna be so worth it . I keep reading these threads about how much phoon sucks , but there loads of setups that can suprise your target, and if phoon sucks so much you sure showed them when they go pop .Get those skills up and go wreck havoc . no offence but id rather train few more Gunnery to V then go get missle skills up. and by the way, point is, to give Typhoon a role! I mean who would care about how much damage output getting boosted on it when it doesnt have a role. Damage dealer role? Nope. Even with 4x Siege IIs + 4x Autos\Artys Tank role? Nope. Barely got grid for it and not enough armor hp. So id really vote for a close-range supporting BS role with 4/5 weapon slots with turret only bonuses. Would finally make a role for it in gangs. -=-
KilROCK	Posted - 2006.03.18 12:23:00 - [36] Role - industrial ship popper
Deros	Posted - 2006.03.18 12:34:00 - [37] this is the post i made in the other topic about the phoon. i was hoping for a change such as this to the phoon: Description change: Using shared technology from their Gallente allies, the Republic Fleet created the Typhoon to work within its fleets complimenting the Tempest. With the Tempest's long range ability, the Typhoon gets in the middle of the fight and does the dirty work. Bonuses along the lines of the dom, say 5% to drone hitpoints and damage. then as a second bonus: 5% velocity to ship and launchers/projectiles Then maybe a few changes to the ship itself, such as a small drone increase to 225m3 or 250m3. The typhoon as a ship is versatile, and that is the reason that i have gone for coupled 5% bonuses, and not any larger than that. Give the phoon some real love. // quick edit oh and pls give AC some love, and make a reason to have 800mm over 650's. Deros
Sky Hunter	Posted - 2006.03.18 12:43:00 - [38] 800s just need more volley dmg, but shouldnt have way higher DPS, imo. As for bonuses, id suggest following then: 5% to drone velocity and damage. 5% to large projectile turret damage. Here we go! 4 Tuuret slots with damage bonus and ability to use 5 heavy drones in space with 5% velocity and dmg bonus. Velocity bonus should be used rather using hitpoints bonus since it will: a) Make a difference from Domi, b) Velocity is one of Minmatar favours -=-
Aloysius Knight	Posted - 2006.03.18 12:46:00 - [39] or how about we wait for sisi to come back ans try out the change before you lot start crying Haha can't touch this!
KilROCK	Posted - 2006.03.18 12:46:00 - [40] drones bonus would make me wet somewhere. Originally by: Ithildin Q: Will the Gallente ship have lots of missiles? I think it's time. A: Die. You are not worthy of life.

KilROCK	Posted - 2006.03.18 12:53:00 - [41] Originally by: Aloysius Knight or how about we wait for sisi to come back ans try out the change before you lot start crying You mean people actually TEST ** on that uh. I thought it was attacking my vagabond with nano nossing armageddons fitted with Quad Beam lasers. Sniping the living out of everything, seeing who sets up the most deadly pos or killing concord till you blow up and brag about it in local. Seriously, no need to test it to see if it's good or bad. It's just 'meh'. Originally by:** Ithildin Q: Will the Gallente ship have lots of missiles? I think it's time. A: Die. You are not worthy of life.
Pesadel0	Posted - 2006.03.18 13:05:00 - [42] Originally by: Aloysius Knight or how about we wait for sisi to come back ans try out the change before you lot start crying Well the change is mhe ...At least in my opinion ;)
Koth Krakenworth	Posted - 2006.03.18 13:06:00 - [43] Sky Hunters suggestion would be excellent as well as any nos-bonus too, though I can imagine other practical bonuses as well. Such as 5% large projectile damage/5% reduction to signature radius (since it's a rather fast BS, it could use this bonus well while orbiting its targets) or maybe a 10% to webbing range (seeing as the huginn got a huge one kinda seems it's a racial thingy except for target painters), or why not a cap injector bonus to encourage other setups then 4 weapon of preferral/4 nos? Or a smartbomb bonus maybe, or a bonus to ladar strenght, making it an ECCM specialist. Point I want to make is that this is the possibility to finally make the phoon an unique, gang-friendly and useful ship for everyone, not just people who either got godlike skillpoints (or those who are forced to get it because of a certain change of bonuses) in all kinds of weaponry or those who like to strap as much firepower on the ship as possible, regarding skills to use it. "It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems just with potatoes."
Naughty Boy	Posted - 2006.03.18 13:08:00 - [44] I so want a drone bonus... Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy.
KilROCK	Posted - 2006.03.18 13:15:00 - [45] Originally by: Naughty Boy I so want a drone bonus... Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy. when they see your sad face, they'll give you one.. Minmatar with a drone ship, that's like asking for more gallente missile based ships Originally by: Ithildin Q: Will the Gallente ship have lots of missiles? I think it's time. A: Die. You are not worthy of life.
Pesadel0	Posted - 2006.03.18 13:23:00 - [46] Originally by: KilROCK Originally by: Naughty Boy I so want a drone bonus... Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy. when they see your sad face, they'll give you one.. Minmatar with a drone ship, that's like asking for more gallente missile based ships Arent the matari allied with the galente?Couldnt we steal their tecknologie?I mean we stole the caldari one rigth?
KilROCK	Posted - 2006.03.18 13:30:00 - [47] Yes. Amarr / Caldari Minmatar / Gallente I guess for a change, we could have a RP change. Seems Tux humps caldari a bit too much with every ships in the game with missiles anyways. Originally by: Ithildin Q: Will the Gallente ship have lots of missiles? I think it's time. A: Die. You are not worthy of life.
Dragon Slave	Posted - 2006.03.18 13:35:00 - [48] Originally by: KilROCK Minmatar with a drone ship, that's like asking for more gallente missile based ships Minmatar with a bonus to missiles, that's like asking for more caldari projectile based ships ... Oh, wait
elorran	Posted - 2006.03.18 13:44:00 - [49] Edited by: elorran on 18/03/2006 13:44:21 A curious thought but while this being played about with and tested, perhaps try turning the typhoon into a fast attack battleship. Modify its mass and/or agility if needed and give it a speed bonus instead of optimal range bonus. Obviously you don't want to make it to "mobile" but it would be interesting to play around with the concept and see what comes out from it.
Soyemia	Posted - 2006.03.18 13:46:00 - [50] Then we still have 1 useless ship. I go train I win omgwtfpwnmobile caldaris.

Bottled Brain	Posted - 2006.03.18 14:52:00 - [51] The difference between the ac typhoon and the ac tempest should be that the typhoon (as a dedicated close range ship) can orbit outside web range doing next to full damage with acs (without much falloff usage) while using her orbit speed as defense. I never understood why a fast and agile short range ship has to enter web range to become a sitting duck while the backstory gabbels something about fast attack and hit and run style... But to stay out of web range the typhoon hast to use 40% of the falloff of the acs and that¦s unacceptable damage-wise. Keep the range bonus and double it or give a modifier to the ammo range penalty or something like that....dunno do something to actually give her an advantage over the tempest in short range combat... A missile bonus is ummm not very innovative...
Severa Crest	Posted - 2006.03.18 14:53:00 - [52] I like the missile bonus tbh. How i'd like the Phoon - 5% missile rof, 7.5% proj rof, 5 missile points, 5 turret points, and lop off 5mill or so Kg from the mass (Min BS are way too heavy compared to the other races). Im not fond of drones in their current form and a drone bonus would turn it into a pwning Domi clone that we don't really need.
Pesadel0	Posted - 2006.03.18 15:22:00 - [53] Originally by: elorran Edited by: elorran on 18/03/2006 13:44:21 A curious thought but while this being played about with and tested, perhaps try turning the typhoon into a fast attack battleship. Modify its mass and/or agility if needed and give it a speed bonus instead of optimal range bonus. Obviously you don't want to make it to "mobile" but it would be interesting to play around with the concept and see what comes out from it. That was my hope when i saw phoon getting fixed,I dunno make it a fast ac machine ,But phoon only has four turret hardpoints,and i like it that way gives you room to play. Thux and tomb must have the hardest job ;). Has it stands now the new phoon wil be 100% better than the old but it could be more matari . Or "The Typhoon class battleship has an unusually strong structural integrity for a Minmatar ship." Give it a bonus to structure tanking .
Sky Hunter	Posted - 2006.03.18 15:29:00 - [54] Originally by: Severa Crest I like the missile bonus tbh. How i'd like the Phoon - 5% missile rof, 7.5% proj rof, 5 missile points, 5 turret points, and lop off 5mill or so Kg from the mass (Min BS are way too heavy compared to the other races). Im not fond of drones in their current form and a drone bonus would turn it into a pwning Domi clone that we don't really need. The phoon setup you mentioned above wont stand a chance against other close-range BS out there. Not enough hp to tank and surely not enough dmg to shoot down its target before you get shot down. -=-
j0sephine	Posted - 2006.03.18 15:30:00 - [55] "Split bonuses is RETARDED on a ship like Phoon. Give it rof+dmg bonus to large projectiles, and 5 turrets, ya know, like a PROPER SHIP." Then you will wind up with a wanna-be Tempest with one gun less. I.e. something that can neither match damage per-volley nor the DoT of any other ship. Kinda like Dominix is a wanna-be Megathron with one gun less. See the relevant "omg domi sux boost it" thread...
Dragon Slave	Posted - 2006.03.18 15:38:00 - [56] The typhoon has always appeared to me as a highly versatile ship, I think a bonus along those lines would be cool. Anything to further emphasize its mobility to turn it into a weapon. Would be better then a silly missile bonus TBH. Whatever the bonus will become, Tux should make sure that it is one most can agree with, people are clearly not all content with a boost to missiles. To avoid further "We want to boost the phoon!" threads and general whining, give it a bonus everyone will have use of, few can argue against and that wont make it imbalanced. True, I would hate to have Tux's and TomB's job
Leandro Salazar	Posted - 2006.03.18 16:18:00 - [57] Quote: The difference between the ac typhoon and the ac tempest should be that the typhoon (as a dedicated close range ship) can orbit outside web range doing next to full damage with acs (without much falloff usage) while using her orbit speed as defense. Meh, it is still a battleship with a high sig radius and at best sluggish manoeverability. It wont ever be able to use speed as defense. And a Tempest would still outdamage it even outside web range with its damage bonus. Even at 50% Falloff it still hits plenty. At least mine does. ___________________________________ Evacuate? In our moment of triumph?
Pesadel0	Posted - 2006.03.18 16:24:00 - [58] Originally by: Dragon Slave The typhoon has always appeared to me as a highly versatile ship, I think a bonus along those lines would be cool. Anything to further emphasize its mobility to turn it into a weapon. Would be better then a silly missile bonus TBH. Whatever the bonus will become, Tux should make sure that it is one most can agree with, people are clearly not all content with a boost to missiles. To avoid further "We want to boost the phoon!" threads and general whining, give it a bonus everyone will have use of, few can argue against and that wont make it imbalanced. True, I would hate to have Tux's and TomB's job I agree with ya in the speed bonus on phoon :). Has for the balancing issues i dunno usally people like me and you ,put our own agenda first (our ships) to give us the edge ,by the way i dont mean this in a bad way, it is just human . Maybe the devs tested the phoon with a maxed character on their server and it kicked ass i dunno i was just hoping a more matari centered "fix" ,the phoon with the missile bonus ,just seems odd to me
Imhotep Khem	Posted - 2006.03.18 16:26:00 - [59] Specialization tops versality. Give typhoon-tempest same relationship between stabber-rupture. Make it 5/3 Give it 5% velocity bonus and take away the optimal bonus. Or if going missiles go all the way Make it 3/5 10% Explosive missile damage, 5% EM/KIN/TH missile damage 5% Missile launch ROF 4/4 Must Die! ____ If your not dyin' your not tryin'.
Xanta	Posted - 2006.03.18 16:28:00 - [60] Originally by: Imhotep Khem Or if going missiles go all the way Make it 3/5 10% Explosive missile damage, 5% EM/KIN/TH missile damage 5% Missile launch ROF more damage than raven?

Jim McGregor	Posted - 2006.03.18 17:01:00 - [61] Originally by: Sky Hunter and by the way, point is, to give Typhoon a role! Its the geekship of eve. --- "Automatic override. Manual control overridden by autopilot. Please wait for operation to complete. You can override the automatic autopilot override in 28 seconds. Then you can make it wait"
Kcel Chim	Posted - 2006.03.18 17:08:00 - [62] Edited by: Kcel Chim on 18/03/2006 17:12:32 i thought the typhoon gets a serious rework and not just a "ok lets switch 1 crap bonus for another" kind of fix. the typhoon has been the bastardchild of the bs class for ages and just by adding a different bonus to it you wont fix it. there is 3 problems which hamper the typhoon a) minmataar are jack of all trades which nowadays need to be specialist of all trades to get the best out of their ships b) the typhoon gets the least out of each bonus because of its slot nature c) the typhoon has no real defined role yet since apart from a vamp or a pve 1400 setup everyone preferes the tempest anyways. To fix these problems you need a new approach on the typhoon and a clear statement of what it is supposed to be / do. a) dont add a new weapontype which minmataars generally dont have a beef with. Projectiles are our guns for a reason so lets stick to them AND drones (if we need 2) and be done. b) revamp the slotlayout with either 6/2 guns / module slots (no missiles) or 5 / 3 guns / modules w. 1-2 missiles c) make the bonuses unique, maybe rof or dmg and a speed bonus ? imagine the typhoon with a 25% speed boost as an AC boat with a 6 gun setup... say rawr ? Once uve done all that, consider some possible fittings and adjust pg and cpu reasonably close to them to make the ship fitworthy without wasting 3 lowslots on engineering upgrades. bang u reinvented a typhoon which might be worth fitting and would prolly have the unique role to be "between hac and bs" with a speed of 180 m/s on bs 5 (without navi skills). Also would need to have a look at agility and mass so its inline with its speedyness. As otherwise it has the acceleration of a mountain comined with the agility of an anvil. Advantages: closrange champ, can dictate range, very good for roaming. Disadvantages: limited flexibility (only guns and guns only with maybe 2 nos), no EW with the tiny medslots and lets not forget its still 1 of the more exspensive t1. In return it will finally be a minamtar ship which uses -->purely <-- OUR core skills and no caldari badaboo.
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2006.03.18 17:14:00 - [63] Missiles have ALLWAYS been Minmatar's secondary weapon. Saying that missiles are only caldari is rubbish. Digital Communist> The Jin-Mei are probably more profficient in training for Tofu and Noodles than Spaceship Command
Kcel Chim	Posted - 2006.03.18 17:25:00 - [64] Edited by: Kcel Chim on 18/03/2006 17:26:50 Originally by: Maya Rkell Missiles have ALLWAYS been Minmatar's secondary weapon. Saying that missiles are only caldari is rubbish. the problem with minmatar is that we not just have secondary primary but also tertiary stuff to worry about. Do u want to name another bs which has a bonus to only 4 of its slots ? and 4 to the others ? By adding such a bonus system it dictates that u can only make full use of the boni but forcing you hand in the highslots. Every other tier 1 bs (and even tier 2) has a clear dedicated role. Domi = drones + hybrids (all bonus in 1 slotrelated weaponbranch, as drones are "ontop") Scorp = EW & 8 medslots Arma = laserboni the only ship actually with split boni is the dominix but it got 3 bonis to make up for it and high ones at it. Not to mention that all 3 are viable for ALL highslots the domi has. This means in short, if i fit my arma with 7 lasers i get all my 2 boni apply to 7 highslots for their full value (ill give you the 8th slot with a nos is boni less but any nos slot is that on tier 1 bs). If i fit my typhoon with 4 launchers and 4 guns i get 4 slots with 1 bonus and another 4 with the other meaning on average only 1 bonus applies to all 8 slots (even worse if i actually fit the famous nos).
KilROCK	Posted - 2006.03.18 17:31:00 - [65] Minmatar secondary being missiles. Oh yea, sure. I fit Nos in every 'secondary - non turret used slots'. 360k in missiles 4tw. Originally by: Ithildin Q: Will the Gallente ship have lots of missiles? I think it's time. A: Die. You are not
Wizie	Posted - 2006.03.18 17:34:00 - [66] While a Drone bonus sounds good on paper, just keep in mind that you only get 5 heavy and 5 med... or more mediums.... Kinda hurts the ship when your 1 load of heavy are dead. I dislike a drone bonus, and I dislike the missile bonus. The ship needs a better bonus and a reworking of the turret/missile slots to make it good.
Pesadel0	Posted - 2006.03.18 17:34:00 - [67] Originally by: Kcel Chim Edited by: Kcel Chim on 18/03/2006 17:12:32 i thought the typhoon gets a serious rework and not just a "ok lets switch 1 crap bonus for another" kind of fix. the typhoon has been the bastardchild of the bs class for ages and just by adding a different bonus to it you wont fix it. there is 3 problems which hamper the typhoon a) minmataar are jack of all trades which nowadays need to be specialist of all trades to get the best out of their ships b) the typhoon gets the least out of each bonus because of its slot nature c) the typhoon has no real defined role yet since apart from a vamp or a pve 1400 setup everyone preferes the tempest anyways. To fix these problems you need a new approach on the typhoon and a clear statement of what it is supposed to be / do. a) dont add a new weapontype which minmataars generally dont have a beef with. Projectiles are our guns for a reason so lets stick to them AND drones (if we need 2) and be done. b) revamp the slotlayout with either 6/2 guns / module slots (no missiles) or 5 / 3 guns / modules w. 1-2 missiles c) make the bonuses unique, maybe rof or dmg and a speed bonus ? imagine the typhoon with a 25% speed boost as an AC boat with a 6 gun setup... say rawr ? Once uve done all that, consider some possible fittings and adjust pg and cpu reasonably close to them to make the ship fitworthy without wasting 3 lowslots on engineering upgrades. bang u reinvented a typhoon which might be worth fitting and would prolly have the unique role to be "between hac and bs" with a speed of 180 m/s on bs 5 (without navi skills). Also would need to have a look at agility and mass so its inline with its speedyness. As otherwise it has the acceleration of a mountain comined with the agility of an anvil. Advantages: closrange champ, can dictate range, very good for roaming. Disadvantages: limited flexibility (only guns and guns only with maybe 2 nos), no EW with the tiny medslots and lets not forget its still 1 of the more exspensive t1. In return it will finally be a minamtar ship which uses -->purely <-- OUR core skills and no caldari badaboo. Chim i soo agree with you that i want to scream ,damm that is exactlly the phhon we matar pilots want .
Koth Krakenworth	Posted - 2006.03.18 17:35:00 - [68] Originally by: Maya Rkell Missiles have ALLWAYS been Minmatar's secondary weapon. Saying that missiles are only caldari is rubbish. Secondary maybe, optional? Always. "It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems just with potatoes."
Janus Ovellian	Posted - 2006.03.18 17:39:00 - [69] I hate missiles. Much rather have some drones than missiles. They're just so much cuter... Interesting times await...
Tachy	Posted - 2006.03.18 18:00:00 - [70] You can't fit weapons and tank to make the ships usefull. The Bellicose used to be a very nice cruiser until the missile fitting changes. Many pilots didn't fly it because missiles and drones had a bad start in EVE. Later they didn't care because they already loved their Stabber or Rupture. One problem many pilots have with the missile are devs who forgot to compensate the Minmatar ships for the massive changes in the missile launcher fitting adjustment patch. With the T2 skills, Minmatar ships are just falling behind the more specialized ships because you have to specialize in all three weapon systems and both tanking systems. And the very limited fitting choices are hurting you a bit more. --==*-- Megadon CCP wanted a well known artist and celebrity to test the new font so it's approval would be well known. They got Ray

Sarmaul	Posted - 2006.03.18 18:03:00 - [71] Choose 2: 7.5% ac rof per level 7.5% launcher rof per level 5% drone damage per level
Isabelle Velchan	Posted - 2006.03.18 18:41:00 - [72] aw... can't we have all 3? /me bats eye-lids at Tux
Leandro Salazar	Posted - 2006.03.18 19:02:00 - [73] Increasing the bonuses for split weapons to 7.5 should really happen. That would make the 4/4 layout at least remotely feasible (still a bit sucky though due to needing different damage mods). Aside from that, making the phoon another pure proj boat would be kinda boring imho, so I don't mind a missile bonus even if I like a drone one better. Of course, I don't care for pwnage (If I did I would be flying Caldari and not care at all about the phoon) but rather want to see an interesting ship. ___________________________________ Evacuate? In our moment of triumph?
BlackDog Rackh'am	Posted - 2006.03.18 19:14:00 - [74] Give me an oversized vagabond as the new typhoon any time. Mass reduction/agility boost,5 turret 3 missile slot layout, bonus to speed/guns. Maybe different med/low slot mix,lose some armor tank capability but gain a choice: shield tank with nanos and gyros in the lows,or armor tank with EW in the mids? Originally by: Black Lotus I vote u for KIA spokesperson.
Severa Crest	Posted - 2006.03.18 19:39:00 - [75] Originally by: Sky Hunter Originally by: Severa Crest I like the missile bonus tbh. How i'd like the Phoon - 5% missile rof, 7.5% proj rof, 5 missile points, 5 turret points, and lop off 5mill or so Kg from the mass (Min BS are way too heavy compared to the other races). Im not fond of drones in their current form and a drone bonus would turn it into a pwning Domi clone that we don't really need. The phoon setup you mentioned above wont stand a chance against other close-range BS out there. Not enough hp to tank and surely not enough dmg to shoot down its target before you get shot down. 5% rof is the only damage bonus a raven has, yet does it suffer from a lack of damage? OK the layout I suggested only has 5 missile slots, but you have 3 highslots left to fit guns or nos, and the ability to field a full set of heavy drones. The drone bonus everyone wants is insane tbh - a phoon with a boosted drone bay and drone bonus will be too overpowered, too much grid and too many high slots. It will be the new domi once EW is adjusted.
Chaotic Beauty	Posted - 2006.03.18 20:01:00 - [76] Originally by: Severa Crest Originally by: Sky Hunter Originally by: Severa Crest I like the missile bonus tbh. How i'd like the Phoon - 5% missile rof, 7.5% proj rof, 5 missile points, 5 turret points, and lop off 5mill or so Kg from the mass (Min BS are way too heavy compared to the other races). Im not fond of drones in their current form and a drone bonus would turn it into a pwning Domi clone that we don't really need. The phoon setup you mentioned above wont stand a chance against other close-range BS out there. Not enough hp to tank and surely not enough dmg to shoot down its target before you get shot down. 5% rof is the only damage bonus a raven has, yet does it suffer from a lack of damage? OK the layout I suggested only has 5 missile slots, but you have 3 highslots left to fit guns or nos, and the ability to field a full set of heavy drones. The drone bonus everyone wants is insane tbh - a phoon with a boosted drone bay and drone bonus will be too overpowered, too much grid and too many high slots. It will be the new domi once EW is adjusted. Drones would be to powerful, but turning phoon into something that will have same missile damage, short of 1 launcher, but with possibility to cover that up with 3x large guns and 5 drones wouldn't be overpowered at all? Also add the 7 lows and smack, game gankship number one. TBH, phoon deserves something different, more unique. Don't turn in into a wannabe Caldari ship, only because you might have better ships for caldari general ships then minmatar general ships. It's a minmatar one, which should mean Large Projectiles, all the other BS for the races do use their race weaponry primarily. Why should the phoon be different and seem to belong more to a different race then it actually is?
Tachy	Posted - 2006.03.18 21:31:00 - [77] I had a dream last night about the tier3 Minmatar BS and the tier2 Minmatar BC. They had a bonus to target painting and one to mining yield, split weapon slots and enough drone capacity for 3 heavy drones, respective 4 medium drones. --==*-- Megadon CCP wanted a well known artist and celebrity to test the new font so it's approval would be well known. They got Ray
Sarmaul	Posted - 2006.03.18 21:32:00 - [78] Originally by: Tachy I had a dream last night about the tier3 Minmatar BS and the tier2 Minmatar BC. They had a bonus to target painting and one to mining yield, split weapon slots and enough drone capacity for 3 heavy drones, respective 4 medium drones. omg we have the same nightmares!
Pesadel0	Posted - 2006.03.18 21:43:00 - [79] Originally by: Tachy I had a dream last night about the tier3 Minmatar BS and the tier2 Minmatar BC. They had a bonus to target painting and one to mining yield, split weapon slots and enough drone capacity for 3 heavy drones, respective 4 medium drones. That is not a dream ,that is a nigthmeare O.o . The stats of both seem cool at least for now ;)
Aversin	Posted - 2006.03.18 23:08:00 - [80] Edited by: Aversin on 18/03/2006 23:09:43 Edited by: Aversin on 18/03/2006 23:09:01 Don't want to read all three pages so here's my idea Since other bs have 2 bonuses that affect 6-8 of their high slots and the phoon has 1 bonus that affects 4 high slots and a second bonus for the other 4 high slots. say the raven it has 2 bonuses that effect 6 of its slots 2x6=12, the typhoon has 2 bonuses to 4 slots each 2x4=8. 8/12=67% so the typhoon's bonuses are only 2/3 as much as a raven, increase the 5%'s to 7.5% and you've got this 1.54+1.54=12 and that is equal, not even mentioning the extra amount of skills needed or the extra pg/cpu needed. So I suggest this, make the typhoon a truely versitile ship. Make it have a slot layout of 8/5/5 and give the typhoon a bonus (10%-15%) to shield boost and armor repair amount to make up for the balanced slots this would allow the typhoon to armor or shield tank and do it decent. Then give the typhoon a hardpoint layout of 5 turret AND 5 missile, the tempest will still be the better gunboat since it has 2 gun bonuses, but with the 7.5% to RoF for missiles and turrets it would be like an enlarged cyclone. Increase the pg to balance because there are 2 less slots for power grid upgrades, and leave the cpu where it is at. You would have a true jack of all trades ship. The typhoon would not be overpowered because it would STILL require more skills than any other bs to fly and it would have the same damage bonus as other bs, also this ship would be unique so when you run into a typhoon you'd have to wonder what he's fitted rather than guessing 4 nos 4 misc + armor tank and drones. The tanking bonus would be a must with the suggested slot layout and would need to be tested, perhaps increased because the loss of 2 low slots would hurt it. Also consider a new model with it and who knows we might make a ship out of her yet =) Originally by: Razner Cerizo They will never quit. The beatings will continue until morale improves.

Leandro Salazar	Posted - 2006.03.18 23:28:00 - [81] You lost me there somewhere Aversin... Are you suggesting 3 bonuses for the new phoon? Coz I am pretty sure that that will never happen. But the 7.5 instead of 5% for split weapons part makes a lot of sense. Maybe even to Tux? ___________________________________ Evacuate? In our moment of triumph?
Tachy	Posted - 2006.03.18 23:34:00 - [82] The higher RoF for the guns still doesn't help the guns falling short in the tracking speed department. The soon to be gone optimal range bonus was a tracking bonus of sorts. The higher RoL for launchers definately isn't. --==*-- Megadon CCP wanted a well known artist and celebrity to test the new font so it's approval would be well known. They got Ray
Kaylana Syi	Posted - 2006.03.18 23:46:00 - [83] Imo... its role is to get up close and personal and smash stuff. It can do that with a missile RoF just fine. However, what I wouldn't mind seeing : 7.5% RoF to Cruise and Siege 12.5% improvement to logistics drones per level Honestly ACs on a phoon with only 4 are fine without any bonus and not using up ammo like water and being able to sustain your damage balances things out in the long run. It even makes that shield hp to armor hp imbalance workable since... well... shield maintenance drones could help a ton. Talk about not even using a shield booster on it... thats a free mid slot to passive tank. 4 Projectiles, 4 Siege IIs 2 Large Shield Extender IIs, 2 Invun field IIs 3 shield power relays, 2 PDU IIs, 2 BCU IIs Mix of Shield Maintenance AND combat drones or you could go with your standard armor tank AND use a mix of Armor maintenance drones AND combat drones. Versatility, and split weapon systems 4tw... if you have an imagination that is Originally by: "Oveur" I don't react to threats any better than you do
Nafri	Posted - 2006.03.18 23:56:00 - [84] Originally by: Kaylana Syi Imo... its role is to get up close and personal and smash stuff. It can do that with a missile RoF just fine. However, what I wouldn't mind seeing : 7.5% RoF to Cruise and Siege 12.5% improvement to logistics drones per level Honestly ACs on a phoon with only 4 are fine without any bonus and not using up ammo like water and being able to sustain your damage balances things out in the long run. It even makes that shield hp to armor hp imbalance workable since... well... shield maintenance drones could help a ton. Talk about not even using a shield booster on it... thats a free mid slot to passive tank. 4 Projectiles, 4 Siege IIs 2 Large Shield Extender IIs, 2 Invun field IIs 3 shield power relays, 2 PDU IIs, 2 BCU IIs Mix of Shield Maintenance AND combat drones or you could go with your standard armor tank AND use a mix of Armor maintenance drones AND combat drones. Versatility, and split weapon systems 4tw... if you have an imagination that is you cant use drones on yourself
Tiuwaz	Posted - 2006.03.18 23:58:00 - [85] small problem maintenance drones dont work on oneself and no i dont want another minnie ship have a bonus like the minnie carrier ( 20% reduction in remote rep repair time ) I'd even take a target painter bonus instead that Originally by: Oveur ****! Lets nerf it! To the nerfmobile!
Kaylana Syi	Posted - 2006.03.19 00:00:00 - [86] Originally by: Nafri Originally by: Kaylana Syi Imo... its role is to get up close and personal and smash stuff. It can do that with a missile RoF just fine. However, what I wouldn't mind seeing : 7.5% RoF to Cruise and Siege 12.5% improvement to logistics drones per level Honestly ACs on a phoon with only 4 are fine without any bonus and not using up ammo like water and being able to sustain your damage balances things out in the long run. It even makes that shield hp to armor hp imbalance workable since... well... shield maintenance drones could help a ton. Talk about not even using a shield booster on it... thats a free mid slot to passive tank. 4 Projectiles, 4 Siege IIs 2 Large Shield Extender IIs, 2 Invun field IIs 3 shield power relays, 2 PDU IIs, 2 BCU IIs Mix of Shield Maintenance AND combat drones or you could go with your standard armor tank AND use a mix of Armor maintenance drones AND combat drones. Versatility, and split weapon systems 4tw... if you have an imagination that is you cant use drones on yourself bah what a crap system then... who cares about helping others... this is EVE and this is the Galnet. Originally by: "Oveur" I don't react to threats any better than you do
Kaylana Syi	Posted - 2006.03.19 00:01:00 - [87] Originally by: Tiuwaz small problem maintenance drones dont work on oneself and no i dont want another minnie ship have a bonus like the minnie carrier ( 20% reduction in remote rep repair time ) I'd even take a target painter bonus instead that well I hadn't used the repair drones before... and yeah... that idea really sucks if you can't repair self. Originally by: "Oveur" I don't react to threats any better than you do
Kaylana Syi	Posted - 2006.03.19 00:11:00 - [88] I find TPs worthless on every ship I have put them on no matter what weapon system I used. Nothing beats SP in weapon systems and player skill to get around that dumb module. Its practically an MWD only counter and that doesn't really need it. Maybe with range it would be better, like you say, and it has potential since its a module that works for guns, missiles, and drones... but meh... I'd rather have a cap recharcher or a shield boost amp than a TP. Originally by: "Oveur" I don't react to threats any better than you do
Kcel Chim	Posted - 2006.03.19 00:12:00 - [89] kaylana, not just that the "tanking" u suggest wouldnt work but may i ask how you close in or "hold" a target with your setup ? The main issue with these threads is that ppl step up with certain setups they deem "right" for their choice of play and hence assume they need to be considered standard. As much as a ship setup like urs might rock your world with a cov op warpin point, a bunch of tacklers holding your hands etc joe random will still call it "teh suxx" cause he might be faced with other settings for his engagements. The idea behind a "new typhoon" should be to create a starting point by giving it a role and from there the option to go different ways to cater ppls playstyles. This means in return that there should be no discussion about "a nos setup" or "a passive shieldtank setup" but instead about a role. In the sense "close and personal" or "joe sniperlovski" or like i suggested "roaming speed bs". After such a role is formulated tux should throw some fitting boni in the mix and then everyone can go and make his setups. Be it with nos, ew, shield, armor or even drones. Anything else will just lead to nothing and surely not increase the SHIP typhoon.
Nafri	Posted - 2006.03.19 00:13:00 - [90] Originally by: Elenia Kheynes Originally by: Nafri Edited by: Nafri on 19/03/2006 00:08:07 Originally by: Tiuwaz small problem maintenance drones dont work on oneself and no i dont want another minnie ship have a bonus like the minnie carrier ( 20% reduction in remote rep repair time ) I'd even take a target painter bonus instead that TP bonus sounds cool, but the bonus is still with 7.5% very low. A TPII with maxed skills give 37.5% sig increase on a normal ship and 51.5625% on a Huginn. sounds cool, but isnt really great. Its basicly the difference between a stabber and a deimos. Ohh, and the range is laughable as well. Target painting could be cool in some fights, but if you have to stay around 40km to be within optimal, thats just rofl I wonder how many painters you need to bring the sig radius of a BS to 1000... then you could use rage torps on it... Then the huginn would have a use o,- You sit at a PC, you should be able to do the math yourself. But since TP do stack nowadays you can only use 3 on a ship remotly effective. Im pretty sure that TP only stack and not multiply like other EW, so you need 3 to get 800 sig on a BS, still not enough for the rage torpedos

Tiuwaz	Posted - 2006.03.19 00:17:00 - [91] Originally by: Kcel Chim kaylana, not just that the "tanking" u suggest wouldnt work but may i ask how you close in or "hold" a target with your setup ? The main issue with these threads is that ppl step up with certain setups they deem "right" for their choice of play and hence assume they need to be considered standard. As much as a ship setup like urs might rock your world with a cov op warpin point, a bunch of tacklers holding your hands etc joe random will still call it "teh suxx" cause he might be faced with other settings for his engagements. The idea behind a "new typhoon" should be to create a starting point by giving it a role and from there the option to go different ways to cater ppls playstyles. This means in return that there should be no discussion about "a nos setup" or "a passive shieldtank setup" but instead about a role. In the sense "close and personal" or "joe sniperlovski" or like i suggested "roaming speed bs". After such a role is formulated tux should throw some fitting boni in the mix and then everyone can go and make his setups. Be it with nos, ew, shield, armor or even drones. Anything else will just lead to nothing and surely not increase the SHIP typhoon. good post, gotta agree with that Originally by: Oveur ****! Lets nerf it! To the nerfmobile!
Naughty Boy	Posted - 2006.03.19 00:18:00 - [92] Edited by: Naughty Boy on 19/03/2006 00:19:15 Originally by: Elenia Kheynes I wonder how many painters you need to bring the sig radius of a BS to 1000... then you could use rage torps on it... Then the huginn would have a use o,- The real problem is not how many, but rather the base sig radius of the ship you are painting (because of the stacking penalty). Stacking goes like that (if Nafri's 51.5625 figure is correct): * 0 TP t2: 100% * 1 TP t2: 151.5625% * 2 TP t2: 219.4837172% * 3 TP t2: 284.0573486% * 4 TP t2: 325.5009611% With 3 TP t2: * 1000m sig radius after 3 TP t2: ~352m base sig * 400m sig radius after 3 TP t2: ~141m base sig * 125m sig radius after 3 TP t2: ~44m base sig Edit: MWD sig radius bonus also stack in the same stack. Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy.
Aversin	Posted - 2006.03.19 00:19:00 - [93] Originally by: Leandro Salazar You lost me there somewhere Aversin... Are you suggesting 3 bonuses for the new phoon? Coz I am pretty sure that that will never happen. But the 7.5 instead of 5% for split weapons part makes a lot of sense. Maybe even to Tux? I guess it would seem that way, but the bonus to tanking would just be to supplement the reduced amount of slots, I sopose you could forget about that bonus and just give the typhoon a flat decrease in cap recharge by 25-30% which would compensate for the reduced slots. and maybe a flat shield and armor increase, the minmatar really need a good tank. Originally by: Razner Cerizo They will never quit. The beatings will continue until morale improves.
Nafri	Posted - 2006.03.19 00:20:00 - [94] Originally by: Naughty Boy Edited by: Naughty Boy on 19/03/2006 00:19:15 Originally by: Elenia Kheynes I wonder how many painters you need to bring the sig radius of a BS to 1000... then you could use rage torps on it... Then the huginn would have a use o,- The real problem is not how many, but rather the base sig radius of the ship you are painting (because of the stacking penalty). Stacking goes like that (if Nafri's 51.5625 figure is correct): * 0 TP t2: 100% * 1 TP t2: 151.5625% * 2 TP t2: 219.4837172% * 3 TP t2: 284.0573486% * 4 TP t2: 325.5009611% With 3 TP t2: * 1000m sig radius after 3 TP t2: ~352m base sig * 400m sig radius after 3 TP t2: ~141m base sig * 125m sig radius after 3 TP t2: ~44m base sig Edit: MWD sig radius bonus also stack in the same stack. Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy. You sure that thy multiply? Didnt thy changed that, cause you could easily kill all kind of ceptors when thy had mwd running? Or did thy just removed the mwd penalty from the TP math?
Imhotep Khem	Posted - 2006.03.19 00:45:00 - [95] I think the bottom like is this slots - turrets/misiles 8 - 5/3 8 - 3/5 8 - 5/5 Once we get here then we can talk. Personally I think 5/5 is true versatility and not this fake versatility people are talking about with 4/4. ____ If your not dyin' your not tryin'.
Kaylana Syi	Posted - 2006.03.19 00:49:00 - [96] Originally by: Kcel Chim kaylana, not just that the "tanking" u suggest wouldnt work but may i ask how you close in or "hold" a target with your setup ? The main issue with these threads is that ppl step up with certain setups they deem "right" for their choice of play and hence assume they need to be considered standard. I love the phoon... where have you been for 2.5 years? 2nd and last BS I ever lost was a Typhoon and I fly one to this day. These threads ARE littered with people who push agendas. So far many people have begged for role for phoon and their ideas turn it into a b@stardblasterthron or a b@stardraven or a b@starddominix. So, what we have is a ship that has not been nerfed in 3 years.... that is due for a boost. Why has it not been nerfed? Because its bonii have been worthless from teh start. Can't nerf what was broke to begin with... well I guess you can but that is not the case for phoon. It is almost as good to not have any bonus on it than to have the current ones. Its slot arrangement is more of a bonus than the bonii. So, yes I made a mistake... not used logistics drones. Already said my bad. And you could and did admit... it would be a biach of a setup if it was real and unlike any ship in eve. But, alas, it can't and you are stuck with the fact that the next best thing is making it a b@stardblasterthron. You wanna go ballroom dancing around the fact that your idea of combat is an aggressor and my idea of the phoon is meant for defense... fine. The Typhoon always has been a point defense ship which could fill in other roles as needed when something better wasn't available. I say make it unique in that, and stop trying to make it into a fracking megathron. But, it doesn't matter since Tux will do what Tux will do. Originally by: "Oveur" I don't react to threats any better than you do
Aloysius Knight	Posted - 2006.03.19 01:41:00 - [97] Originally by: Kaylana Syi It is almost as good to not have any bonus on it than to have the current ones. Its slot arrangement is more of a bonus than the bonii. You wanna go ballroom dancing around the fact that your idea of combat is an aggressor and my idea of the phoon is meant for defense... fine. The Typhoon always has been a point defense ship which could fill in other roles as needed when something better wasn't available. I say make it unique in that, and stop trying to make it into a fracking megathron. But, it doesn't matter since Tux will do what Tux will do. Haha can't touch this!
Aloysius Knight	Posted - 2006.03.19 01:43:00 - [98] Originally by: Kaylana Syi It is almost as good to not have any bonus on it than to have the current ones. Its slot arrangement is more of a bonus than the bonii. You wanna go ballroom dancing around the fact that your idea of combat is an aggressor and my idea of the phoon is meant for defense... fine. The Typhoon always has been a point defense ship which could fill in other roles as needed when something better wasn't available. I say make it unique in that, and stop trying to make it into a fracking megathron. But, it doesn't matter since Tux will do what Tux will do. point defence ship? ever thought its used like that because it sucked at taking on larger things? and dear god if typhoon gets a TP bonus im flying to iceland to get payback Haha can't touch this!
Kaylana Syi	Posted - 2006.03.19 02:58:00 - [99] Originally by: Aloysius Knight Originally by: Kaylana Syi It is almost as good to not have any bonus on it than to have the current ones. Its slot arrangement is more of a bonus than the bonii. You wanna go ballroom dancing around the fact that your idea of combat is an aggressor and my idea of the phoon is meant for defense... fine. The Typhoon always has been a point defense ship which could fill in other roles as needed when something better wasn't available. I say make it unique in that, and stop trying to make it into a fracking megathron. But, it doesn't matter since Tux will do what Tux will do. point defence ship? ever thought its used like that because it sucked at taking on larger things? and dear god if typhoon gets a TP bonus im flying to iceland to get payback To be quite honest its not really a matter of how you [anyone] want it to be used or crusading around the forums saying it sux. The ship's role is defined by its slots and if people refuse to use that role in combat because it [the combat style] is impractical or is boring doesn't mean that it should be made like other ships because status quo uses other ships in a certain way. That much I agree with Mr Chim. Nothing wrong with point defense as long as there is a clear line between the phoon being king dingaling in that department compared to say... the domi or geddon. At the moment... the geddon is better point defense in many ways. That, as you know, is the problem... it shines in NO role because the DEVs have given it crap bonus from day 1. The new role of being a cheap b@stardthron is tantilizing... but maybe other things could be changed instead because in the end if I wanted to fly a b@stardthron I would just buy one. shrug And yes... a TP bonus would make me fall on my sword... sell my phoon and buy a NightMare. Originally by: "Oveur" I don't react to threats any better than you do
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2006.03.19 03:05:00 - [100] Originally by: Kcel Chim Edited by: Kcel Chim on 18/03/2006 17:26:50 Originally by: Maya Rkell Missiles have ALLWAYS been Minmatar's secondary weapon. Saying that missiles are only caldari is rubbish. the problem with minmatar is that we not just have secondary primary but also tertiary stuff to worry about. That's fine, but trying to say that missiles are "not minmatar" is incorrect. As for them being optional, in many cases with frigate setups you'll be missing a big chunk of DPS without them. Digital Communist> The Jin-Mei are probably more profficient in training for Tofu and Noodles than Spaceship Command

Valea Silpha	Posted - 2006.03.19 03:39:00 - [101] Oh the woes of the phoon. Recently had a lil 1 vs 1 sparring with corpies... One corp mate was flying his new phoon set-up (Dual 425s and nos i think). I thought he was boned. I was wrong. Torp raven (with siegeIIs) vs phoon = phoon won. And not by a little. Nailed the guys cap before his tank was really sweating. AC tempest (me) vs phoon = phoon won. It stung my pride. A lot. Geddon vs phoon = phoon won. Ripped it a new one. The phoon tanks REALLY DAMN HARD. Maybe not as hard as the domi in nos set-up or the apoc, but it tanks hard enough to neutralise someone assuming they are in a normal PvP outift (not a crazy nos one).
Ghoest	Posted - 2006.03.19 03:59:00 - [102] Split bonus sucks. Pick one or the other and give 2 really good bonuses. It still wont be powerful like a ship dedicated to one weapon, but at least it will let you put your nos in place of a missile and you have 4 good weapons. Wherever you went - here you are.
Tiuwaz	Posted - 2006.03.19 04:35:00 - [103] Originally by: Valea Silpha Oh the woes of the phoon. Recently had a lil 1 vs 1 sparring with corpies... One corp mate was flying his new phoon set-up (Dual 425s and nos i think). I thought he was boned. I was wrong. Torp raven (with siegeIIs) vs phoon = phoon won. And not by a little. Nailed the guys cap before his tank was really sweating. AC tempest (me) vs phoon = phoon won. It stung my pride. A lot. Geddon vs phoon = phoon won. Ripped it a new one. The phoon tanks REALLY DAMN HARD. Maybe not as hard as the domi in nos set-up or the apoc, but it tanks hard enough to neutralise someone assuming they are in a normal PvP outift (not a crazy nos one). did the phoon win because it was a phoon or because he had 4 heavy nos equipped, think about that Originally by: Oveur ****! Lets nerf it! To the nerfmobile!
Valdor Hag	Posted - 2006.03.19 05:35:00 - [104] I normally do not post to these discussions on ships as they are heavily biased on peoples own agendas. I do however feel compelled to do so now, as I see some people that have no clue what is going on with Minmitar ships come in here and post their opinions. These opinions may or may not directly influence a ship that they donÆt fly and donÆt care about to be frank. I for one do care about this ship and would not like it to be messed up again. We have the opportunity to set the wrongs right so let us not mess this up. I know personal agendas are close to the harts of all who fly a Typhoon and I will admit, that is why I am posting this, but allow me to explain. When the missile changes where introduced the Minmitar got it from two sides up to that point we had a choice of using a mix between guns and missiles. Having to spec guns to make them worthwhile though, but we still had this choice. Most Minmitar like me choose to go the gun route, as that is where our skills lay and hence left the missiles behind. With the current proposal I have to spec missiles and guns and drones to make the Typhoon a viable ship this is unfair towards us.(Look at the Hound 2/2 missiles and guns totally worthless. Nobody fits any guns on the thing as you canÆt be close enough to use them as the ship is made of tissue paper)) According to the story line, we are close to the Gallentes and hence share some of their ships and technologies. Look at the Makcriel for example. Hence, I do not see why drone bonuses will be over board at all? But Missiles is 90% Caldari and if I wanted to play a Caldari with cruise I would have been a Caldari, so please donÆt force this on to us. Do not force us to have to spec three different trees to be effective on a single ship. May I suggest the following; do not give the ship bonuses to, Target painters, Missiles or EW, but instead look at Gunnery, Velocity / agility, Drone, Nos or Armoury as the bonuses areas. I would also suggest you change the slot layout to 5/3 and switch the shield/Armour on the ship as it is meant to do armour tanking. This will make the ship much more viable than it is currently. Regards, V
Percy Loudbottom	Posted - 2006.03.19 07:56:00 - [105] Originally by: Pesadel0 Originally by: Kcel Chim Edited by: Kcel Chim on 18/03/2006 17:12:32 i thought the typhoon gets a serious rework and not just a "ok lets switch 1 crap bonus for another" kind of fix. the typhoon has been the bastardchild of the bs class for ages and just by adding a different bonus to it you wont fix it. there is 3 problems which hamper the typhoon a) minmataar are jack of all trades which nowadays need to be specialist of all trades to get the best out of their ships b) the typhoon gets the least out of each bonus because of its slot nature c) the typhoon has no real defined role yet since apart from a vamp or a pve 1400 setup everyone preferes the tempest anyways. To fix these problems you need a new approach on the typhoon and a clear statement of what it is supposed to be / do. a) dont add a new weapontype which minmataars generally dont have a beef with. Projectiles are our guns for a reason so lets stick to them AND drones (if we need 2) and be done. b) revamp the slotlayout with either 6/2 guns / module slots (no missiles) or 5 / 3 guns / modules w. 1-2 missiles c) make the bonuses unique, maybe rof or dmg and a speed bonus ? imagine the typhoon with a 25% speed boost as an AC boat with a 6 gun setup... say rawr ? Once uve done all that, consider some possible fittings and adjust pg and cpu reasonably close to them to make the ship fitworthy without wasting 3 lowslots on engineering upgrades. bang u reinvented a typhoon which might be worth fitting and would prolly have the unique role to be "between hac and bs" with a speed of 180 m/s on bs 5 (without navi skills). Also would need to have a look at agility and mass so its inline with its speedyness. As otherwise it has the acceleration of a mountain comined with the agility of an anvil. Advantages: closrange champ, can dictate range, very good for roaming. Disadvantages: limited flexibility (only guns and guns only with maybe 2 nos), no EW with the tiny medslots and lets not forget its still 1 of the more exspensive t1. In return it will finally be a minamtar ship which uses -->purely <-- OUR core skills and no caldari badaboo. Chim i soo agree with you that i want to scream ,damm that is exactlly the phhon we matar pilots want . Speak for yourself champ. The phoon (and even the tempest) have 4 launcher slots for a reason. I love a missile phoon... in fact, even without a bonus I find it to be vastly preferable to an AC phoon. The one big advantage the phoon has over any other BS is that its much faster, even than a tempest. We dont need another gunship that will suck compared to a tempest, and especially compared to some crazy 8 turret monstrosity of a tier 3 BS. We DO need the phoon to be something different. I love the missile phoon... the speed is the perfect partner for missiles and nos.. it can control the range, stay out of web range, and make the transversal high will using a weapon that doesnt care about transversal. The only thing I hope for is that the missile ROF bonus will be 7.5% instead of 5... since it can only be used on half the high slots...
Percy Loudbottom	Posted - 2006.03.19 07:59:00 - [106] Originally by: Tiuwaz Originally by: Valea Silpha Oh the woes of the phoon. Recently had a lil 1 vs 1 sparring with corpies... One corp mate was flying his new phoon set-up (Dual 425s and nos i think). I thought he was boned. I was wrong. Torp raven (with siegeIIs) vs phoon = phoon won. And not by a little. Nailed the guys cap before his tank was really sweating. AC tempest (me) vs phoon = phoon won. It stung my pride. A lot. Geddon vs phoon = phoon won. Ripped it a new one. The phoon tanks REALLY DAMN HARD. Maybe not as hard as the domi in nos set-up or the apoc, but it tanks hard enough to neutralise someone assuming they are in a normal PvP outift (not a crazy nos one). did the phoon win because it was a phoon or because he had 4 heavy nos equipped, think about that It probably won because it was a phoon with 4 heavy nos. A while ago I beat a tempest with t2 ACs flying a phoon.. he didnt have a crap setup, although it was a pretty cookie-cutter setup. The only reason I won (with about 40% structure left) was the fact that I had the speed to stay out of web range, keep the transversal up to bring his DOT down some and my own weapons didnt care about transversal. Missile phoon ftw, now gimme my ROF bonus.
Kcel Chim	Posted - 2006.03.19 10:35:00 - [107] Originally by: Kaylana Syi I love the phoon... where have you been for 2.5 years? 2nd and last BS I ever lost was a Typhoon and I fly one to this day. These threads ARE littered with people who push agendas. So far many people have begged for role for phoon and their ideas turn it into a b@stardblasterthron or a b@stardraven or a b@starddominix. So, what we have is a ship that has not been nerfed in 3 years.... that is due for a boost. Why has it not been nerfed? Because its bonii have been worthless from teh start. Can't nerf what was broke to begin with... well I guess you can but that is not the case for phoon. It is almost as good to not have any bonus on it than to have the current ones. Its slot arrangement is more of a bonus than the bonii. Kaylana, while i welcome your compassion and love for the typhoon please lets stay realistic and not create a highly metaphysical image of something which just doesnt work ingame. The typhoon so far sucked in everything a ship could suck at which will even the ship producers backup. That it wasnt nerfed (which isnt true) was simply down to the reason that apart from missile and projectile changes noone even bothered to mess with it as it was already broken, like you stated yourself. The slotlayout is similar for every ship in eve, claiming the typhoons pure eternal bonus was its unique layout is just screeing some hot air to excuse its severe disadvantages. By your logic a scorp with its 8 meds wouldnt need boni either because it has already 8 meds for ew or a raven wouldnt need boni either because it has 6 missile slots. Lets be honest and face it, compared to all these ships the typhoon is always 1 step behind because it has crappy boni in the first place. Quote: So, yes I made a mistake... not used logistics drones. Already said my bad. And you could and did admit... it would be a biach of a setup if it was real and unlike any ship in eve. But, alas, it can't and you are stuck with the fact that the next best thing is making it a b@stardblasterthron. Im far from wishing it to be a blasterthron, actually quiet the opposite. I personally would like to see it as a closerange battleship (mind you its tier 1 so lets not mix tier 2 in) which excells at speed and agility. Adding a valueable asset to roaming and fast moving fleets. Call it heavy support or "cheap and fast". Quote: You wanna go ballroom dancing around the fact that your idea of combat is an aggressor and my idea of the phoon is meant for defense... fine. The Typhoon always has been a point defense ship which could fill in other roles as needed when something better wasn't available. I say make it unique in that, and stop trying to make it into a fracking megathron. But, it doesn't matter since Tux will do what Tux will do. This part of your post is where you are wrong. I dont mind if the typhoon becomes a "point defence" ship, whatever that role is supposed to do However i do want the typhoon to become a "choice" and an alternative for the tempest, not for just 1 role but for day to day operations and maybe even an alternative to other races ships in a unique role only the typhoon can fill. Last but not least, as much as i enjoy the stories of the unkillable typhoon, a tempest with the exact same setup (mind you the low and medslot difference might cause a minor problem there) with a similar pilot on the helm would have eaten it alive. What you declared as the reason for success was the setup (and prolly the current overpoweredness of Nos) not the ship. The typhoon breathes the same air, the same cap and is slave to the same gamemechanics every other ship is bound to. No magic involved. As a conclusion, it is tux call how to "improve" the typhoon, but i personally with experience since beta, dont see the typhoon becoming the new lovechild with these minor changes. Far from it i think its prolly still as worthless as it used to be. There is no decrease in crap.
Pesadel0	Posted - 2006.03.19 11:49:00 - [108] Quote: Speak for yourself champ. The phoon (and even the tempest) have 4 launcher slots for a reason. I love a missile phoon... in fact, even without a bonus I find it to be vastly preferable to an AC phoon. The one big advantage the phoon has over any other BS is that its much faster, even than a tempest. We dont need another gunship that will suck compared to a tempest, and especially compared to some crazy 8 turret monstrosity of a tier 3 BS. We DO need the phoon to be something different. I love the missile phoon... the speed is the perfect partner for missiles and nos.. it can control the range, stay out of web range, and make the transversal high will using a weapon that doesnt care about transversal. The only thing I hope for is that the missile ROF bonus will be 7.5% instead of 5... since it can only be used on half the high slots... I said we as in me and kcel chim ,i got to practice my english more :).. What role does the phoon have now seriously guys ,I love the phoon but it needs help since release and it is not a missile bonus that will help him i think.. The fast mobile ACBship would be a superb in little figths and guerrila tactics ,It would stand between the BS and HAC,make it more paper thin but fast and agile that is a role not a ,mini-raven and a mini-tempest coupled together.. Quote: Oh the woes of the phoon. Recently had a lil 1 vs 1 sparring with corpies... One corp mate was flying his new phoon set-up (Dual 425s and nos i think). I thought he was boned. I was wrong. Torp raven (with siegeIIs) vs phoon = phoon won. And not by a little. Nailed the guys cap before his tank was really sweating. AC tempest (me) vs phoon = phoon won. It stung my pride. A lot. Geddon vs phoon = phoon won. Ripped it a new one. The phoon tanks REALLY DAMN HARD. Maybe not as hard as the domi in nos set-up or the apoc, but it tanks hard enough to neutralise someone assuming they are in a normal PvP outift (not a crazy nos one). Let me guess the phoon had NOS ,try agains a 4 NOS tempest with EW,a domi,a NOS geddon or even a nos raven with armor tank and EW (dunno if it fits only fly matari ships),or even a scorp the scorp would scram you,and leave you there :\|. The thing here is that the phoon doesnt do anything better that other BS ,i mean it lack a role ,every heard a team mate say: " hey i will bring a phoon cause we nedd it for X ". The phoon needs a role and it is not a missile bonus that will help him in that departement.
dabster	Posted - 2006.03.19 11:53:00 - [109] Guess it could fit as 'damage dealer' or something aleast 4 siege, 4 dual 650/800 (if they fix em) mwd, web, scram, sensor booster 3 gyro, 3 bcu, rcu maybe :\| ___________________________ Brutors Rule! My Eve-vids; Click.
Sarmaul	Posted - 2006.03.19 11:58:00 - [110] Originally by: dabster Guess it could fit as 'damage dealer' or something aleast 4 siege, 4 dual 650/800 (if they fix em) mwd, web, scram, sensor booster 3 gyro, 3 bcu, rcu maybe :\| 4 arbi siege, 4 d425mm II, ab, named xlbooster, 2 invul II, co-pro II, 3 gyro II and 3 bcu II fits. useless for solo, and other ships can do the job better for gangs

Jim McGregor	Posted - 2006.03.19 12:11:00 - [111] Any ship can win vs any other ship, it just depends on the setup and the skills. Sorry for stating the obvious, but i felt i needed to when people started using phoon nos setups to prove the point that phoon doesnt suck. Personally i think the phoon should get 5% speed bonus and agility bonus per level. Fast and agile is the role its best suited for. --- "Automatic override. Manual control overridden by autopilot. Please wait for operation to complete. You can override the automatic autopilot override in 28 seconds. Then you can make it wait"
Randuin MaraL	Posted - 2006.03.19 12:34:00 - [112] Originally by: Foulis 4x Siege + 4x Nos + Wicked armor tank and mwd isn't good? It is all good - but let us keep the typhoon for ourselves and let the others play with their toys. Never be in the company of anyone with whom you would not want to die. MEDUSA veteran, Khumaak Award winner
smallgreenblur	Posted - 2006.03.19 12:40:00 - [113] Originally by: Jim McGregor Any ship can win vs any other ship, it just depends on the setup and the skills. Sorry for stating the obvious, but i felt i needed to when people started using phoon nos setups to prove the point that phoon doesnt suck. Personally i think the phoon should get 5% speed bonus and agility bonus per level. Fast and agile is the role its best suited for. QFT. If you are going to have a split bonus, which does mean less dot than any bs that specialises in one type, then i don't see why a small speed or agility bonus is out of the question. And please do the swapping around of shield and armor. Please. sgb
KilROCK	Posted - 2006.03.19 12:40:00 - [114] 10% to Stasis webifier Range, sounds like fun.. or 5% to Nosferatu drain ammount, sounds overpowered but i like it All in all, the missile bonus only adds versatility to setups, i have no intentions of turning the typhoon into some more expensive version of a gankageddon, gankaphoon with Gyros and BCU II starts to cost a bit. Originally by: Ithildin Q: Will the Gallente ship have lots of missiles? I think it's time. A: Die. You are not
Leandro Salazar	Posted - 2006.03.19 14:06:00 - [115] I think the split slot layout is the phoons trademark and should not be changed. But it should be enhanced by increasing the bonuses (boni?) to 7.5% (and that needs to be done for all ships suffering from that dilemma, not just the phoon, single weapon ships STILL get an advantage due to damage mods and tracking mods applying to all their weapons (or not applying and hence being useles in the case of missiles and tracking) and split weapons systems would be at least remotely competitive. The last thing I want it make the phoon even more of a NOS reliant ship as I think NOS are pretty lame and take a great amount of fun out of combat just like EW (Yes I agree with 1 or 2 NOS as defense against frigs but only because there is no other really useful one, 4 nos as main weapons suck :D). Damage dealer is the right way to go imho, it just needs to be done correctly to make it competitive, 2 damage bonuses will make it slightly better than before, but only with 2 7.5% bonuses will it be competitive. And we want to lift the phoon from poor to average, not from poor to slightly less poor, or don't we? ___________________________________ Evacuate? In our moment of triumph?
Selim	Posted - 2006.03.19 15:31:00 - [116] While the missile bonus is welcomed, its really not enough to lift the phoon up from crappiness. Some additional changes that others have proposed would be great: - switch shield for armor - add a missile hardpoint and a turret hardpoint, to increase versatility - increase powergrid a slight amount - if not adding a missile/turret hardpoint, change both bonuses to 7.5 per level, and do the same for ALL split weapon ships like: - Ares - Raptor - Huginn - Bellicose - er.. whatever else there is? Speaking of the Bellicose/Huginn... target painter bonuses suck. Give Minmatar tracking disruptor bonuses, it fits more with the idea of being fast and hard to hit. If not that, something else... just anything but target painters please. One more thing. Does the phoon even need the projectile ROF bonus? I'd like to see it become sort of like the scorpion compared to the raven. The scorpion has completely different bonuses than the Raven. The phoon should be completely missile/drone based, in my opinion. Just because it is minmatar doesnt mean it needs a projectile bonus. Thus I propose this alternative change: - +1 missile slot - keep the missile rof bonus - switch the projectile rof bonus with 10% drone damage/tracking bonus - increase drone bay from 175 to 250 - switch lowslot to med - lower CPU Minmatar are supposed to be able to use everything good. Drone bonuses shouldnt be exclusive to the gallente, nor should missile bonuses be exclusive to the caldari. These changes would preserve versatility while giving the phoon a new outlook on life. It would be like a dominix, but faster, more versatility, but with a weaker tank. I'm not sure of all the specifics but basically, a missile bonus and a drone bonus would, even if it kinda sucked, would make the phoon unique and make it a possibility when people choose their battleship, instead of the current 'k fit 4 nos' setups. ____________ Originally by: hired goon Imagine if you were having sex but the girl turned into Margaret Thatcher just as you were approaching climax. That's why we hate WCS.
KilROCK	Posted - 2006.03.19 15:34:00 - [117] Edited by: KilROCK on 19/03/2006 15:36:23 Tracking disruptor is an amarr thing. And stop trying to make the typhoon a drone boat in your suggestions lol Drone bonus maybe, but drone bay? pfft. No slot change for med/lows or I'll personally hunt you down in-game if your suggestion leads to such crappy changes. Same goes for turning it into a missile bonus + drone crap. Originally by: Ithildin Q: Will the Gallente ship have lots of missiles? I think it's time. A: Die. You are not
Selim	Posted - 2006.03.19 15:45:00 - [118] Originally by: KilROCK Edited by: KilROCK on 19/03/2006 15:36:23 Tracking disruptor is an amarr thing. And stop trying to make the typhoon a drone boat in your suggestions lol Drone bonus maybe, but drone bay? pfft. No slot change for med/lows or I'll personally hunt you down in-game if your suggestion leads to such crappy changes. Same goes for turning it into a missile bonus + drone crap. Who cares if tracking disruptors are amarr? Target painters suck and minmatar need a better EW. Give your own suggestion to that if you disagree, thx. And stop trying to make the typhoon into a nosferatu boat in your suggestions lol. I think my proposal makes more sense than yours, building on the NATURAL strengths of the ship rather than the overpoweredness of heavy nosferatu. As far as the low to med slot, thats just so the typhoon wont out-tank the dominix. If you can think of something else with my bonuses that wouldnt make the dominix 'useless' compared to the typhoon than I'm all ears, mr. hunt me down. Plus, we already have one turret battleship, with another one on the way, we don't need another. ____________ Originally by: hired goon Imagine if you were having sex but the girl turned into Margaret Thatcher just as you were approaching climax. That's why we hate WCS.
Leandro Salazar	Posted - 2006.03.19 15:59:00 - [119] Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 19/03/2006 16:01:24 Proj damage and RoF bonus? Woohoo! Yeah, like a Tempest! Oh wait, we already got a Tempest... What exactly would be the use of the phoon in exactly the same role? If you fancy exclusively projectiles just stick with the Tempest, but please let the Phoon remain different. I'd rather have it stay as is than having it become a stupid poor mans Tempest. Missiles + Drones sound perfectly fine! ___________________________________ Evacuate? In our moment of triumph?
KilROCK	Posted - 2006.03.19 16:03:00 - [120] Selim, you just try to much to change the whole typhoon. Keep it simple, suggest something that keeps it 'true' to minmatar ways. They won't put a nos bonus i know. They also won't change the dronebay, and the slots arrangements of Meds/Lows. If you think they'll turn the typhoon into a EW based ship with more meds, and a tracking disruptor bonus, well... ouch. Won't happen. I'll just stop bothering and hope they make something good and just give it a bonus to use both splitted up weaponry or enhance the Turret side of the typhoon along with a shield/armor HP switch to improve armor tanking. Originally by: Ithildin Q: Will the Gallente ship have lots of missiles? I think it's time. A: Die. You are not

Pesadel0	Posted - 2006.03.19 16:08:00 - [121] Originally by: Leandro Salazar Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 19/03/2006 16:01:24 Proj damage and RoF bonus? Woohoo! Yeah, like a Tempest! Oh wait, we already got a Tempest... What exactly would be the use of the phoon in exactly the same role? If you fancy exclusively projectiles just stick with the Tempest, but please let the Phoon remain different. I'd rather have it stay as is than having it become a stupid poor mans Tempest. Missiles + Drones sound perfectly fine! Well i have to disagree with ya ,because i would love a fast and more agile BS,for the minamatar ;) And people didnt try to make it a miny-tempest ,a fast hiting Bs . Our cruisers forgetting the hacs ;) : Rupture--+Tempest Staber---+??? phoon with speed bonus ;) But the selim proposol seems ok ,but a bit overpowered with maxed skills
Selim	Posted - 2006.03.19 16:13:00 - [122] Originally by: KilROCK If you think they'll turn the typhoon into a EW based ship with more meds, and a tracking disruptor bonus, well... ouch. Won't happen. I thought I was done but then I saw this. You can say whatever you want, except for that... not once did I propose giving the typhoon an EW bonus. If they did that I'd probably throw up. What I meant is that current minmatar EW sucks. Anyway, the typhoon's stats already show it to be a more droney ship than most others, why not go all the way and give it a drone bonus and a missile bonus to set it apart from the tempest? A more turretey typhoon would be BORING, even more boring than what they did to the sacrilege. Indeed, I think saying that missiles ARENT 'true' to minmatar ways is sacriligious. Drones aren't exactly anti-minmatar either. Besides even if they arent minmatar, which they are, every race needs an oddball ship. ____________ Originally by: hired goon Imagine if you were having sex but the girl turned into Margaret Thatcher just as you were approaching climax. That's why we hate WCS.
Koth Krakenworth	Posted - 2006.03.19 16:42:00 - [123] Originally by: Selim Just because it is minmatar doesnt mean it needs a projectile bonus. Quote: So you're saying people should train the heavy skills large projectiles lvl 5 + sharpshooting lvl 5/motion prediction lvl 5 + large autocannon spec + large artillery spec ONLY for one ship? Please, if you've spent so much effort getting a type of gun, atleast give people a choice of ships (other then faction that is, who shouldn't be an option because it isn't something a lot of people can afford, especially not for PvP). "It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems just with potatoes."
Kaylana Syi	Posted - 2006.03.19 16:57:00 - [124] Edited by: Kaylana Syi on 19/03/2006 16:58:02 Originally by: Kcel Chim Kaylana, while i welcome your compassion and love for the typhoon please lets stay realistic and not create a highly metaphysical image of something which just doesnt work ingame. The typhoon so far sucked in everything a ship could suck at which will even the ship producers backup. That it wasnt nerfed (which isnt true) was simply down to the reason that apart from missile and projectile changes noone even bothered to mess with it as it was already broken, like you stated yourself. The slotlayout is similar for every ship in eve, claiming the typhoons pure eternal bonus was its unique layout is just screeing some hot air to excuse its severe disadvantages. By your logic a scorp with its 8 meds wouldnt need boni either because it has already 8 meds for ew or a raven wouldnt need boni either because it has 6 missile slots. Lets be honest and face it, compared to all these ships the typhoon is always 1 step behind because it has crappy boni in the first place. Right now we are just splitting hairs and you are misinterpreting my words. The Typhoon beggs for a role. The best role it servers is leading a small camp. Always has. Quote me you been here since beta means nothing to me. I been here almost as long and been flying phoons longer than most. The phoon I have in my hangar is the same phoon I built 2 years ago. Its been through PvP, NPC, Missions and several patches. I know how to use one. My skills revolved around it in spades. It is one step behind to other ships when trying to fit 'their' repsective roles. But the severe penalties it has going against it, which have been here from day 1... don't make it a crap ship it just doesn't shine in anything PvP wise. It makes it one that needs SP and player skill to soak benefit of it. Which, admittingly, is a blessing and a curse in itself. Quote: Im far from wishing it to be a blasterthron, actually quiet the opposite. I personally would like to see it as a closerange battleship (mind you its tier 1 so lets not mix tier 2 in) which excells at speed and agility. Adding a valueable asset to roaming and fast moving fleets. Call it heavy support or "cheap and fast". This part of your post is where you are wrong. I dont mind if the typhoon becomes a "point defence" ship, whatever that role is supposed to do However i do want the typhoon to become a "choice" and an alternative for the tempest, not for just 1 role but for day to day operations and maybe even an alternative to other races ships in a unique role only the typhoon can fill. A point defense ship is one that is similar to what you described. It is a ship that can get somewhere, buckle down, and be the centerpiece of a camp to control an area on teh front line. If you think of a carrier as a system wide point defense, think of the phoon as the frong line point defense that has offense and the 'ability' ( not bonii oriented mind you) to repair his wingman through logistic drones and/or take the fight to the ones pushing into what your defending. I really don't like using NOS on my phoon. I have made that clear more times than 1. I think that is totally crap I have around 13mil SP that make the phoon a monster and its better served with a nooblet's template. I have a character, Kaylon Syi who has been flying phoons since 2003, and can fly all BSs equally at lvl 3 and fire all weapons at lvl 3. Nowhere near the level of Kaylana's skills. Yet, he can be just as effective as Kaylana can be in a fight using NOS and missiles. That is just wrong and I hate every minute of it. But I will use NOS in PvP if that is what it takes to win these days. shrug Originally by: "Oveur" I don't react to threats any better than you do
Dragon Slave	Posted - 2006.03.19 17:00:00 - [125] Typhoon should be projectiles. Those who want it to be a missileship, just go get a bloody Raven or a Scorp, why do you want to make a wannabe raven with an armor tank for? If you think missiles are the way to go, I'm sorry to say, but Minmatar is the wrong race for you. Missiles are highly secondary, a way to get a little unprediction into your setups or add a touch of extra DPS, no way the primary damage output. That should always be projectiles, the race weapon, otherwise, what's the point with having projectiles at all? Just remove projectiles and add missiles to all ships and build Minmatar into Caldari. Imagine, twice as many missile ships to choose from! Good, no, since you want to make one out of the bastard BS of the minmatar anyways, why stop there?
Kcel Chim	Posted - 2006.03.19 17:24:00 - [126] Edited by: Kcel Chim on 19/03/2006 17:26:09 kaylana, as ive stated in every post, i dont doubt you know how to fit and use a typhoon for your special way of playstyle. Namely "point defence". The issue im looking at is the fact that i would like the typhoon to be improved to be a multirole ship which doesnt appear just on the rare occasion where a gatecamp is needed. Frankly said during the last 2 years gatecamps as the primary source of defence just became less and less satisfying, especially with lesser 0.0 traffic and new ways into existing territories. In short im not doubting your word or that the typhoon actually has a, boni unrelated, role there. Just let us agree that the typhoon is rare and unused by the main proportion of the players because they cant make sense of it or dont camp often enough to cherish its unique abilities. I would rather like to see tbat the typhoon gets a serious revamp which makes it a more common competitor on the battlefield and a ship which has its place amongst "standard tools" instead of "surprise weapons".
Leandro Salazar	Posted - 2006.03.19 17:27:00 - [127] Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 19/03/2006 17:31:18 Well the Typhoon will keep the turret slots most certainly so everyone will be free to fit projectiles. But a proj bonus should not be mandatory. I don't think the Scorpion has a missle bomus, does it? Would it not be much more interesting to have the Tempest and then something completely different rather than a Tempest and a slightly faster Tempest? And if all you care about is pwnage, I think Minmatar is the wrong race for you to fly too. Their strong point is versatility, their weak point is damage/tank. And I hope that will live on. Also, the phoon already has a large drone bay and those missile hardpoints, so why not expand on those. With the Tier3 Battleship coming in Kali, that can be that speedy close range boat that the hardcore projectilists desire rather than turning the phoon into one. ___________________________________ Evacuate? In our moment of triumph?
Dragon Slave	Posted - 2006.03.19 17:46:00 - [128] Originally by: Leandro Salazar Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 19/03/2006 17:31:18 Well the Typhoon will keep the turret slots most certainly so everyone will be free to fit projectiles. But a proj bonus should not be mandatory. I don't think the Scorpion has a missle bomus, does it? Would it not be much more interesting to have the Tempest and then something completely different rather than a Tempest and a slightly faster Tempest? And if all you care about is pwnage, I think Minmatar is the wrong race for you to fly too. Their strong point is versatility, their weak point is damage/tank. And I hope that will live on. Also, the phoon already has a large drone bay and those missile hardpoints, so why not expand on those. With the Tier3 Battleship coming in Kali, that can be that speedy close range boat that the hardcore projectilists desire rather than turning the phoon into one. Scorp doesn't have a missile bonus, but sure, give Phoon a double EW bonus and that would be nice as well. Scorp is heavily specialized, a pure EW platform, and its bonuses reflect that. And EW is the caldari, isn't it? A highly racial bonus I would say. For all other BS, they have bonuses to their race weapons, so why shouldn't phoon have something that is highly minmatar? Projectiles, ofcourse, but velocity is also a very common minmatar bonus. I would say this is the way to go, one projectile bonus and one bonus to navigation, this would be the most logical bonus and also one that would greatly disguingish it from the tempest; tempest is a slow, not very mobile turretplatform while phoon will be the fast, mobile ship with versitality in highslots, you will still be able to fit those missiles you so love, even though they will do 5-25% less damage, but the choice to use those highs for something diffent such as nos, neutralizers or SB's will still be there and everyone will have a use for the extra velocity. And it will get a very specific role everywhere; The rather fast tankable BS that can be sent in front, close up gaps, fetch loot, chase enemies etc. Damagepotiential will still only be moderate, but it's mobility will give it other advantages in combat.
Kcel Chim	Posted - 2006.03.19 17:53:00 - [129] ill ask it simple, why do minmataar need a ship which is similar to another race ? galleante have rails + drones (unique) caldari have missiles + ew (unique) amarr have lasers + cap (unique) minmatar have projectiles + ???? some of everything ? i see a designflaw there and i honestly wonder why ppl try to build up on "dronebay size" and "missile slots" as those can be changed in an eyeglimpse and have nothing to do with a ROLE the ship will fullfill. Every other race has one ship designed to make use of its primary weapon system and another one to make use of its special ability (amarr have cap and 8 turrets which made the apoc the uberminer back in the days if that counts) while minmatar get a projectile ship and some bastard who gets the worse of all other races ? Sorry im asking for something real which might make this ship more popular instead of "better for me and my pals when we are doing the lvl 4 mission we always had a problem with". Oh and btw the scorpion had before the revamp a railgun rof bonus and a shieldsize bonus for all it matters so pls dont come with some "roleplaying" "but its in the lore" bollox.
Sarmaul	Posted - 2006.03.19 18:14:00 - [130] if cap counts as being racial, then minmatar get projectiles, speed and lower sig radii

Leandro Salazar	Posted - 2006.03.19 19:04:00 - [131] Well I wouldn't mind a navigation bonus to the phoon either, but it would have to be very significant. The 10 m/s it has over the Tempest is nothing. Its speed would have to be up there with the Machariel, and include a rather hefty boost to agility putting that close to Battlecruisers. Otherwise it will be just as useless as the optimal range bonus currently is. And somehow I don't see such a strong bonus happening. The most reasonable change to the phoon I see as realistic and also improving it enough to be competitive is 7.5% bonus to both missile and turret RoF, and changing shield and armor HP. Though I would actually prefer a 7.5% bonus to proj damage instead of RoF to help with the insane ammo consumption. I still want a drone bonus, but the above would still be satisfactory. ___________________________________ Evacuate? In our moment of triumph?
Merv Tring	Posted - 2006.03.19 20:03:00 - [132] Meh. You wanna give the Typhoon a unique role for a battleship? Fine, make it a cruiser-killer. Slots as they are, but with a 5/4 Turret/Bay layout. Bit extra speed and agility (lower mass?). Bonuses: 7.5% to Large Projectile Turret tracking. 12.5% to Large Projectile Turret signature radius (makes it 150m at BS 5). BS 5, 5 650mm ACs, and 3 Heavy Nosses should eat any cruiser, HAC or not. Add a web or two and it should tear apart frigs as well. Battleships, however, would pose quite a problem. There, now the Typhoon's basically a tier 5 battlecruiser. ------------------------------------------- My my my, how the time does fly, When you know you're gonna die by the end of the night.
Laughlyn Vaughns	Posted - 2006.03.19 22:02:00 - [133] i'd like a RoF to the phoon it coudl make it interesting fitting Cruise/1200's on it with a bit of a squeeze, ages since i had my phoon but with Drones turrets and missiles it's pretty much a kill anything ship. theres enuff variety in it with a 3 way weapon split to keep any phoon pilot busy for ages training the new skills, but just imagine a fully pimped T2 phoon, sure to do a pretty reasonable amount of damage.
Uuve Savisaalo	Posted - 2006.03.19 22:33:00 - [134] As a habitual typhoon pilot I've to add some commentary to this. Imhotep, I strongly disagree with your point. Not every single ship in eve has to have the most clearly-defined, set-in-stone, obvious and limiting one-directional role. I'm very fond of typhoon because of its flexibility, even in its current form and have been modestly successful in combat with this ship against by far more popular vessels. Your point that minmatar ships in general require high skills to fly is absolutely spot-on, but this isn't a disadvantage. After several years of specialising in exclusively minmatar ships I am able to reap the rewards by using the typhoon as a missile boat, an armour tank, an autocannon/nos or even agressive cap denial quad neutraliser/ac. The damage from split weapon systems, enhanced by the rof bonus, combines nicely with the drone compliment to form one of the most versatile and unpredictable ships you can face in eve. yes, the requirements are steep but such is the game with minmatar in general. Deal with it, or get a raven as ..well, just about everyone else.
Kaylana Syi	Posted - 2006.03.20 04:40:00 - [135] Originally by: Uuve Savisaalo As a habitual typhoon pilot I've to add some commentary to this. Imhotep, I strongly disagree with your point. Not every single ship in eve has to have the most clearly-defined, set-in-stone, obvious and limiting one-directional role. I'm very fond of typhoon because of its flexibility, even in its current form and have been modestly successful in combat with this ship against by far more popular vessels. Your point that minmatar ships in general require high skills to fly is absolutely spot-on, but this isn't a disadvantage. After several years of specialising in exclusively minmatar ships I am able to reap the rewards by using the typhoon as a missile boat, an armour tank, an autocannon/nos or even agressive cap denial quad neutraliser/ac. The damage from split weapon systems, enhanced by the rof bonus, combines nicely with the drone compliment to form one of the most versatile and unpredictable ships you can face in eve. yes, the requirements are steep but such is the game with minmatar in general. Deal with it, or get a raven as ..well, just about everyone else. Originally by: "Oveur" I don't react to threats any better than you do
Percy Loudbottom	Posted - 2006.03.20 07:52:00 - [136] Edited by: Percy Loudbottom on 20/03/2006 07:53:26 Originally by: Pesadel0 Quote: Speak for yourself champ. The phoon (and even the tempest) have 4 launcher slots for a reason. I love a missile phoon... in fact, even without a bonus I find it to be vastly preferable to an AC phoon. The one big advantage the phoon has over any other BS is that its much faster, even than a tempest. We dont need another gunship that will suck compared to a tempest, and especially compared to some crazy 8 turret monstrosity of a tier 3 BS. We DO need the phoon to be something different. I love the missile phoon... the speed is the perfect partner for missiles and nos.. it can control the range, stay out of web range, and make the transversal high will using a weapon that doesnt care about transversal. The only thing I hope for is that the missile ROF bonus will be 7.5% instead of 5... since it can only be used on half the high slots... I said we as in me and kcel chim ,i got to practice my english more :).. What role does the phoon have now seriously guys ,I love the phoon but it needs help since release and it is not a missile bonus that will help him i think.. The fast mobile ACBship would be a superb in little figths and guerrila tactics ,It would stand between the BS and HAC,make it more paper thin but fast and agile that is a role not a ,mini-raven and a mini-tempest coupled together.. Quote: Oh the woes of the phoon. Recently had a lil 1 vs 1 sparring with corpies... One corp mate was flying his new phoon set-up (Dual 425s and nos i think). I thought he was boned. I was wrong. Torp raven (with siegeIIs) vs phoon = phoon won. And not by a little. Nailed the guys cap before his tank was really sweating. AC tempest (me) vs phoon = phoon won. It stung my pride. A lot. Geddon vs phoon = phoon won. Ripped it a new one. The phoon tanks REALLY DAMN HARD. Maybe not as hard as the domi in nos set-up or the apoc, but it tanks hard enough to neutralise someone assuming they are in a normal PvP outift (not a crazy nos one). Let me guess the phoon had NOS ,try agains a 4 NOS tempest with EW,a domi,a NOS geddon or even a nos raven with armor tank and EW (dunno if it fits only fly matari ships),or even a scorp the scorp would scram you,and leave you there :\|. The thing here is that the phoon doesnt do anything better that other BS ,i mean it lack a role ,every heard a team mate say: " hey i will bring a phoon cause we nedd it for X ". The phoon needs a role and it is not a missile bonus that will help him in that departement. 1> I might have still won against a 4 nos tempest under that situation. my 4 nos, his 4 nos, cancel each other out. The main reason I won was that he couldnt hit me very well, and with 4 nos he would have had 2 less guns, 33% less dot and that much easier for me to tank. 2> I could not have won against any kind of EW ship at all, since jammers would have screwed me... but it was a duel so no jammers anyways. 3> The role of a typhoon is a fast, agile, short range heavy tackle ship, at least the way I use it. For that role, a strong defence, a primary weapon system that is short ranged but doesnt care about tracking, and a way to run the tank without chargers in the mids (which are full of MWD/AB + tackle gear) is required. Thus logically you get siege launchers and nos. That is in NO WAY similar even a bit to a raven. A raven is a big fat practically immobile torp spamming machine that works best when it warps in close, it doesnt chase things down like a phoon does. We dont need a fast AC BS, since we already have the tempest... the second fastest BS in the game which hits way way harder than any 5 turret phoon with 1 DOT effecting bonus ever could. I will say that I wouldnt mind some speed or agility bonus on the phoon, but I think that a missile ROF bonus is better because sit increases the utility of the ship all around... better for PvP and better for PvE...
klok718	Posted - 2006.03.20 08:25:00 - [137] The answer to me seems obvious. 7/7 missiles/guns in the high slots and its only bonus is +10% speed per lvl. Want a missile boat? Go fit it. Want a speedy lilÆ auttocannon ship? Go fit it. Want a long-range sniper? Go fit it. (Use drones and your speed for close in combat or team up with an AC tempest) Want to mix it up and have it work best with your skills? Go fit it. You could even fit 8X heavy nos and fly that sucker right into a cluster of BS and nos/web/scram 3 at once!!! And before you scream ôOMGwtfbbqpwnagemobile!!!11ö think about ôputting all your eggs in one basketö all autocannons? How do you fight a cruise raven and such? Sniper full of howies? Better not run across a wolfpack of 3-5 frigates. Even if you had to nerf it just a touch, Shave off one mid and one low slot. This gives you 8 highs, 4 mids and 6 lows. Still enough to armor tank well. I would also like to see this as a minmatar race specific ship requiring frigate V, cruiser V and maybe even industrial V. This still fits the matari credo of ôversatilityö and plays to the matari back-story of hard/fast combat. the line to tell me how bad an idea this is starts here --------------------------------
Testy Mctest	Posted - 2006.03.20 08:28:00 - [138] Originally by: Foulis 4x Siege + 4x Nos + Wicked armor tank and mwd isn't good? You do realise that that doesn't actually fit even with max skills, right? The phoon with a missile bonus will actually be quite interesting and workable, imo. It just needs about 2000 more grid to be any good. There used to be a sig here, but I got bored of it.
Percy Loudbottom	Posted - 2006.03.20 09:40:00 - [139] Originally by: klok718 The answer to me seems obvious. 7/7 missiles/guns in the high slots and its only bonus is +10% speed per lvl. Want a missile boat? Go fit it. Want a speedy lilÆ auttocannon ship? Go fit it. Want a long-range sniper? Go fit it. (Use drones and your speed for close in combat or team up with an AC tempest) Want to mix it up and have it work best with your skills? Go fit it. You could even fit 8X heavy nos and fly that sucker right into a cluster of BS and nos/web/scram 3 at once!!! And before you scream ôOMGwtfbbqpwnagemobile!!!11ö think about ôputting all your eggs in one basketö all autocannons? How do you fight a cruise raven and such? Sniper full of howies? Better not run across a wolfpack of 3-5 frigates. Even if you had to nerf it just a touch, Shave off one mid and one low slot. This gives you 8 highs, 4 mids and 6 lows. Still enough to armor tank well. I would also like to see this as a minmatar race specific ship requiring frigate V, cruiser V and maybe even industrial V. This still fits the matari credo of ôversatilityö and plays to the matari back-story of hard/fast combat. the line to tell me how bad an idea this is starts here -------------------------------- Haha.... well... that would be hella fun, but maybe a little on the overpowered side. Also if you took a mid off it would be 3, not 4 mids. Training indy 5 for it wouldnt make any sense. I could see something like that as a cool tier 3 BS though as long as it had enough grid to make it worth it.
Masu'di	Posted - 2006.03.20 09:58:00 - [140] microwarp drive bonus would be great

klok718	Posted - 2006.03.20 10:11:00 - [141] I added the indy V skill because I thought caldari pilots may start flying them for the extra missile high slot and wanted to avoid that. Maybe a penalty to shields per level can avoid that issue. It would force caldari pilots to train a bunch of armor skills if they wanted to fly one effectively. And your right about only having 3 mids. I still think thatÆs a good idea. You really have to think out your fitting carefully. I would even like to see an 8 high (8 missile/8 turret), 2 mid slot 8 low slot tier 3 battleship (huge cargohold, small drone bay, slow and the sig radius of a small moon)
Tar om	Posted - 2006.03.20 10:12:00 - [142] Reading the thread, I think that the way the phoon is going now would be better kept for the 3rd Minmatar BS. You could actually build a real beast if you gave it 8 highs, 4:4 and decent bonuses to both (Missile RoF, Turret RoF, Drone Damage 10% per level). You'd have to spec all three weapons systems but thats what Minmatar is all about - Massive Skills. Requiring such massive skill input would (imo) justify giving a phoon-like ship 5 mids, more cap and grid with the shield/armour HP swapped. Yes, it could become a juggernaught - but only for the most supremely skilled up PvP chars. Worth a try for hardcore PvPers.. the type that have the skills but not the cash for capital ships. -- We are the Octavian Vanguard www.octavianvanguard.net "The belief in the possibility of a short decisive war appears to be one of the most ancient and dangerous of human illusions."
Sarmaul's Slave	Posted - 2006.03.20 13:13:00 - [143] The problem with the new Typhoon is that even if you manage to max out all 3 weapon skill-trees (projectiles, missiles and drones), the rewards still aren't worth it due to the single bonus. "What do you mean single bonus?" I'll explain. Taking the Megathron as an example, it gets a bonus to Large Hybrid Turret damage and Large Hybrid Turret tracking. As it has 7 turret points, this means that it has 2 bonuses that effect 87.5% (7/8) of it's highslot weapons. Now moving on to the Typhoon in it's present form. It gets bonuses to Large Projectile Turret optimal range and rate of fire. The Typhoon only has 4 turret points, so that gives it 2 bonuses that effect 50% (4/8) of it's highslot weapons. If the Typhoon loses the optimal range bonus and gains a 5% Cruise and Siege Launcher rate of fire bonus, you are basically leaving it with a single ROF bonus for all it's highslots. 5% ROF Bonus for 4 Turrets + 5% ROF Bonus for 4 Launchers = 5% ROF to all large racial weapon systems. Now, even if you gave it extra missile or launcher points (you could even do 8/8), it would still only have a 5% ROF to all large racial weapon systems. The only real solution is to either give both weapon systems 2 bonuses, or increase the percentage per level of the dual ROF bonuses to 7.5% or higher. This is an issue with all split-weapon ships that CCP like to give minmatar (look at the Rapier and Huginn for another lovely 5% ROF to all medium racial weapon systems). You wouldn't dare give Amarr -10% capacitor use for lasers per level and no other bonus, much like you wouldn't dare give a Gallente 5% damage bonus and nothing else, so why does Minmatar get shafted with the crappy bonuses yet again?
Sarmaul	Posted - 2006.03.20 13:14:00 - [144] gah ******* alt
Oberon Oblique	Posted - 2006.03.20 13:37:00 - [145] Drum roll pls.... Change harpoints to 5/5 insted of 4/4 Bonus: 5% missiles and projetile ROF per lvl 5% velocity bonus per lvl Its still a flying trashcan, but you can get your funk on! Say you want it.. -The mind is strong and the flesh is weak, but oh the flesh...
Kcel Chim	Posted - 2006.03.20 13:39:00 - [146] Quote: 1> I might have still won against a 4 nos tempest under that situation. my 4 nos, his 4 nos, cancel each other out. The main reason I won was that he couldnt hit me very well, and with 4 nos he would have had 2 less guns, 33% less dot and that much easier for me to tank. A tempest can fit the very same setup your typhoon can fit without wasting space on a pg mod (4 nos 4 ac t2, large repper t2 and an afterburner). Doing so it gains 1 medslot free on you which would prolly end up beeing a webber negating any speed or optimal advantages you have which leaves the tempest in theory with the same tank, and 25% rof bonus for its 4 guns. Not to speak of the more armor (very important as it is hardened hp), shield and structure it gains thanks to tier 2 'ness. Tho in total you gain 2 heavy t2 drones on him. Doubt thats enough to bail out well for you. Tho as i said before its not about "nos or not" as others stated aswell we dont need a ship with a half bonus again change the slotlayout to 5 or 6 / something so we can make use of the full boni in the majority of our slots or make the boni double so that we have 10% proj rof per lvl and 10% missile rof per lvl. Problem fixed, all slots get 2 boni.
Shidhe	Posted - 2006.03.20 13:45:00 - [147] Originally by: Oberon Oblique Drum roll pls.... Change harpoints to 5/5 insted of 4/4 Bonus: 5% missiles and projetile ROF per lvl 5% velocity bonus per lvl Its still a flying trashcan, but you can get your funk on! Say you want it.. Looks interesting. As for projectiles, we only have one sane minnie projectile BS now. When the tier 3 comes out, that will hopefully be two. Making the Typhoon something different from pure projectiles provides a bit of room to have some variation between BS - otherwise why dont we just have Tempest Mk 1, 2 and 3?
Kaylana Syi	Posted - 2006.03.20 14:09:00 - [148] Edited by: Kaylana Syi on 20/03/2006 14:09:44 If you want to go with a speed bonus : 10% RoF to Cruise Missiles and/or Siege 5% Increase to base speed Keep 4/4 setup Change Shield HP to Armor HP Be done with it Originally by: "Oveur" I don't react to threats any better than you do
Forsch	Posted - 2006.03.20 14:11:00 - [149] Originally by: Kaylana Syi 10% RoF to Cruise Missiles and/or Siege 5% Increase to base speed Keep 4/4 setup Change Shield HP to Armor HP sounds good ________________________________________________________________ Forsch Defender of the empire
Alupigus1	Posted - 2006.03.20 14:19:00 - [150] The most logical change will be dropping turrets optimal for some speed and agility and maybe one more turret slot.. plus switching armor with shields. Any missiles rof (7.5% minimum per level) will be useless without at least 4/5 layout, still crappy though. As a message for CCP, if you do change it make it worth.. or let it be.

Imhotep Khem	Posted - 2006.03.20 14:25:00 - [151] Originally by: Oberon Oblique Drum roll pls.... Change harpoints to 5/5 insted of 4/4 Bonus: 5% missiles and projetile ROF per lvl 5% velocity bonus per lvl QFT. if 5/5 becomes too uber then nerf it later. Typh0on deserves its time in the sun. 7.5% missiles and projetile ROF per lvl Target Painters: Signature and velocity are part of the same equation. A cheap Stasis Webbifier I has DOUBLE (75%) the effect of a maxed T2 TP. Basic BS is not a support ship and should not have supporting styled bonuses anyway ____ If your not dyin' your not tryin'.
Kaylana Syi	Posted - 2006.03.20 14:32:00 - [152] Edited by: Kaylana Syi on 20/03/2006 14:35:05 Originally by: Alupigus1 The most logical change will be dropping turrets optimal for some speed and agility and maybe one more turret slot.. plus switching armor with shields. Any missiles rof (7.5% minimum per level) will be useless without at least 4/5 layout, still crappy though. As a message for CCP, if you do change it make it worth.. or let it be. Phoon doesn't need any bonus to projectiles. It isn't that good of a gun ship to begin with. ACs do not need a RoF bonus with only 4 guns unless its enough to compete with 6 guns on the tempest. Speed increases on a 4/4 ship have to make sure it will help BOTH weapon systems and thier bonus. Right now a RoF bonus to projectiles + a speed bonus would imho suck. It would have to be a missile bonus. To drop the gun bonus for a complete 1 weapon system bonus you would have to have 10% as the speed wouldn't be 'that' great if a cyclone could come close you your damage profile from your high slots. Going to a 5/5 or 5/4 or 4/5 is retardedly asking too much. It is obvious by them only looking into a missile bonus. So, by giving us a 10% bonus to cruise and siege on a 5% bonus to speed, which benefits missiles much, much more than ACs, they could give us something that wouldn't out perform a raven, yet is well defined in its own right as a missile ship. We can use ACs at their stock numbers wich will cut back on ammo use and add secondary DoT. It makes d.425mm IIs manageable, afterall fitting ammo and missiles is askign a super model to eat a whole newyork cheesecake. The phoon would stand out on its own and have a worth while damage profile. It would seriously shine as a versatile ship no other ship could clame in EVE without being grossly imbalanced the moment a Jim Raynor stepped into it. Originally by: "Oveur" I don't react to threats any better than you do
KilROCK	Posted - 2006.03.20 14:40:00 - [153] Edited by: KilROCK on 20/03/2006 14:41:08 Lame. Turn typhoon into a missile boat without any projectile bonuses left and you're one hell of a fool.. And to top it off, you use a typhoon for npcing, so no wonder you want to change it into a poor, raven. Originally by: Ithildin Q: Will the Gallente ship have lots of missiles? I think it's time. A: Die. You are not
Kaylana Syi	Posted - 2006.03.20 14:49:00 - [154] Originally by: KilROCK Edited by: KilROCK on 20/03/2006 14:41:08 Lame. Turn typhoon into a missile boat without any projectile bonuses left and you're one hell of a fool.. And to top it off, you use a typhoon for npcing, so no wonder you want to change it into a poor, raven. excuse me? My Typhoon has seen more pvp then NPC in its lifetime. I've NPC'ed with it 2,3 times and just got lvl 4 missions last month... after 2 years of having it. I have sat in missions with other people for maybe 20 missions at most and they were with jide when lvl 4s were brand spanking new. Stop trying to tell others their career history. You are not the definitive of minmatar fighting. You didn't give any numbers to back up your rebuttle. It was a personal attack. I NPC IN A PROPHECY!!! Anyone that knows me will raise their hand to that. I have done 2 lvl 4 missions of my own agent with my Typhoon. Sir, don't label me. If I want to use projectiles, which 1/3 of my SP investment belong too... I will fly a tempest. If I want to fly a Raven... sir... I will fly a raven. Moreover, I think missiles for NPC is a waste of isk. That is what lasers are for. Originally by: "Oveur" I don't react to threats any better than you do
Leandro Salazar	Posted - 2006.03.20 16:02:00 - [155] I admit to using the Typhoon for PvE (Even though only for those missions that put me at serious risk of being PvPed). That does not make my wish for a missile and drone bonus rather than proj any less valid, does it? Just because you are a high and mighty oh so important PvPer does not mean CCP does not have to consider the other avenues this game offers. Hate to burst your bubble, but this game revolves neither only around you nor only around PvP combat. ___________________________________ Evacuate? In our moment of triumph?
Tulthix	Posted - 2006.03.20 16:07:00 - [156] I don't get the point of the Typhoon. Its the "hey i spent 2 years skilling for this ship and now its up to par with the 6month skilled other battleships" ship.
cy4n1d3	Posted - 2006.03.20 16:34:00 - [157] Edited by: cy4n1d3 on 20/03/2006 16:35:11 you guys are retarded. the phoon already holds its own, has plenty of grid, and the missile rof bonus will make it insane. you just need good skills. try 4xdual 425 2's and 4xarb sieges and 5x t2 heavy drones. you have plenty of room for a cap injector and a great armor tank and a couple BCS 2's. how about a faction version of it with an extra mid slot and more armor?
Wizie	Posted - 2006.03.20 16:49:00 - [158] Originally by: Kaylana Syi Originally by: KilROCK Edited by: KilROCK on 20/03/2006 14:41:08 Lame. Turn typhoon into a missile boat without any projectile bonuses left and you're one hell of a fool.. And to top it off, you use a typhoon for npcing, so no wonder you want to change it into a poor, raven. excuse me? My Typhoon has seen more pvp then NPC in its lifetime. I've NPC'ed with it 2,3 times and just got lvl 4 missions last month... after 2 years of having it. I have sat in missions with other people for maybe 20 missions at most and they were with jide when lvl 4s were brand spanking new. Stop trying to tell others their career history. You are not the definitive of minmatar fighting. You didn't give any numbers to back up your rebuttle. It was a personal attack. I NPC IN A PROPHECY!!! Anyone that knows me will raise their hand to that. I have done 2 lvl 4 missions of my own agent with my Typhoon. Sir, don't label me. If I want to use projectiles, which 1/3 of my SP investment belong too... I will fly a tempest. If I want to fly a Raven... sir... I will fly a raven. Moreover, I think missiles for NPC is a waste of isk. That is what lasers are for. I remember your response on my thread regarding tech II ammo type.. it was a 1 liner that did nothing to rebutt the points I had made... "sir"... Pfft pot meet kettle. I agree with KR.
Pesadel0	Posted - 2006.03.20 16:58:00 - [159] Originally by: cy4n1d3 Edited by: cy4n1d3 on 20/03/2006 16:35:11 you guys are retarded. the phoon already holds its own, has plenty of grid, and the missile rof bonus will make it insane. you just need good skills. try 4xdual 425 2's and 4xarb sieges and 5x t2 heavy drones. you have plenty of room for a cap injector and a great armor tank and a couple BCS 2's. how about a faction version of it with an extra mid slot and more armor? You have power grid to fit that all in??
Testy Mctest	Posted - 2006.03.20 16:59:00 - [160] Originally by: cy4n1d3 Edited by: cy4n1d3 on 20/03/2006 16:35:11 you guys are retarded. the phoon already holds its own, has plenty of grid, and the missile rof bonus will make it insane. you just need good skills. try 4xdual 425 2's and 4xarb sieges and 5x t2 heavy drones. you have plenty of room for a cap injector and a great armor tank and a couple BCS 2's. how about a faction version of it with an extra mid slot and more armor? In which world is this, where you can fit that and still have a 'great' armour tank and a 'couple' of BCUs? 2x BCU and 1x RCU (to fit anything in your armour tank after you fit your mids) leaves you with a 4 slot armour tank. Hardly great.... Yes, it does hold its own, but then so does any ship in the game that's considered 'bad'. Just because they can kill people, doesn't mean they dont need looking at. There used to be a sig here, but I got bored of it.

Testy Mctest	Posted - 2006.03.20 16:59:00 - [161] Originally by: Pesadel0 Originally by: cy4n1d3 Edited by: cy4n1d3 on 20/03/2006 16:35:11 you guys are retarded. the phoon already holds its own, has plenty of grid, and the missile rof bonus will make it insane. you just need good skills. try 4xdual 425 2's and 4xarb sieges and 5x t2 heavy drones. you have plenty of room for a cap injector and a great armor tank and a couple BCS 2's. how about a faction version of it with an extra mid slot and more armor? You have power grid to fit that all in?? Someone else noticed, then :P As I keep saying. This new 'improved' Phoon will be a fine ship, as long as it gets another 2k grid. There used to be a sig here, but I got bored of it.
smallgreenblur	Posted - 2006.03.20 17:01:00 - [162] Originally by: Testy Mctest Originally by: Pesadel0 Originally by: cy4n1d3 Edited by: cy4n1d3 on 20/03/2006 16:35:11 you guys are retarded. the phoon already holds its own, has plenty of grid, and the missile rof bonus will make it insane. you just need good skills. try 4xdual 425 2's and 4xarb sieges and 5x t2 heavy drones. you have plenty of room for a cap injector and a great armor tank and a couple BCS 2's. how about a faction version of it with an extra mid slot and more armor? You have power grid to fit that all in?? Someone else noticed, then :P As I keep saying. This new 'improved' Phoon will be a fine ship, as long as it gets another 2k grid. QFT. I'm sick of using up my wonderful 7 low slots to increase powergrid. sgb
Kaylana Syi	Posted - 2006.03.20 18:15:00 - [163] Originally by: Wizie Originally by: Kaylana Syi Originally by: KilROCK Edited by: KilROCK on 20/03/2006 14:41:08 Lame. Turn typhoon into a missile boat without any projectile bonuses left and you're one hell of a fool.. And to top it off, you use a typhoon for npcing, so no wonder you want to change it into a poor, raven. excuse me? My Typhoon has seen more pvp then NPC in its lifetime. I've NPC'ed with it 2,3 times and just got lvl 4 missions last month... after 2 years of having it. I have sat in missions with other people for maybe 20 missions at most and they were with jide when lvl 4s were brand spanking new. Stop trying to tell others their career history. You are not the definitive of minmatar fighting. You didn't give any numbers to back up your rebuttle. It was a personal attack. I NPC IN A PROPHECY!!! Anyone that knows me will raise their hand to that. I have done 2 lvl 4 missions of my own agent with my Typhoon. Sir, don't label me. If I want to use projectiles, which 1/3 of my SP investment belong too... I will fly a tempest. If I want to fly a Raven... sir... I will fly a raven. Moreover, I think missiles for NPC is a waste of isk. That is what lasers are for. I remember your response on my thread regarding tech II ammo type.. it was a 1 liner that did nothing to rebutt the points I had made... "sir"... Pfft pot meet kettle. I agree with KR. You agree with him about me, or about the ship? Because if you agree with him about me... you are the fool as he is. You spend 1 week and a half doing missions in Gulfonodi trying to score a lvl 4 agent and you get labeled a mission runner... sir you don't know me nor do you know what accounts I run. Some posts come off funny, and over the top... you feel that way about something I post then laugh at it, do a 1 liner, get your knuckle punch in. But KR has been doing it over and over to me the last months because he saw a fellow forum wh@re in the system he was in in a ship that she don't fly often. Both of you can kiss it. Originally by: "Oveur" I don't react to threats any better than you do
Kaylana Syi	Posted - 2006.03.20 18:17:00 - [164] Originally by: cy4n1d3 Edited by: cy4n1d3 on 20/03/2006 16:35:11 you guys are retarded. the phoon already holds its own, has plenty of grid, and the missile rof bonus will make it insane. you just need good skills. try 4xdual 425 2's and 4xarb sieges and 5x t2 heavy drones. you have plenty of room for a cap injector and a great armor tank and a couple BCS 2's. how about a faction version of it with an extra mid slot and more armor? Since when do you have enough cargo space to fit torpedos, L Proj Ammo, and spare cap injectors? That ship lives in a logistic word's nightmare. Originally by: "Oveur" I don't react to threats any better than you do
KilROCK	Posted - 2006.03.20 18:47:00 - [165] Originally by: Kaylana Syi Originally by: Wizie Originally by: Kaylana Syi Originally by: KilROCK Edited by: KilROCK on 20/03/2006 14:41:08 Lame. Turn typhoon into a missile boat without any projectile bonuses left and you're one hell of a fool.. And to top it off, you use a typhoon for npcing, so no wonder you want to change it into a poor, raven. excuse me? My Typhoon has seen more pvp then NPC in its lifetime. I've NPC'ed with it 2,3 times and just got lvl 4 missions last month... after 2 years of having it. I have sat in missions with other people for maybe 20 missions at most and they were with jide when lvl 4s were brand spanking new. Stop trying to tell others their career history. You are not the definitive of minmatar fighting. You didn't give any numbers to back up your rebuttle. It was a personal attack. I NPC IN A PROPHECY!!! Anyone that knows me will raise their hand to that. I have done 2 lvl 4 missions of my own agent with my Typhoon. Sir, don't label me. If I want to use projectiles, which 1/3 of my SP investment belong too... I will fly a tempest. If I want to fly a Raven... sir... I will fly a raven. Moreover, I think missiles for NPC is a waste of isk. That is what lasers are for. I remember your response on my thread regarding tech II ammo type.. it was a 1 liner that did nothing to rebutt the points I had made... "sir"... Pfft pot meet kettle. I agree with KR. You agree with him about me, or about the ship? Because if you agree with him about me... you are the fool as he is. You spend 1 week and a half doing missions in Gulfonodi trying to score a lvl 4 agent and you get labeled a mission runner... sir you don't know me nor do you know what accounts I run. Some posts come off funny, and over the top... you feel that way about something I post then laugh at it, do a 1 liner, get your knuckle punch in. But KR has been doing it over and over to me the last months because he saw a fellow forum wh@re in the system he was in in a ship that she don't fly often. Both of you can kiss it. Lol, Paranoid mumbling right there. It isn't all about you Originally by: Ithildin Q: Will the Gallente ship have lots of missiles? I think it's time. A: Die. You are not
Sarmaul	Posted - 2006.03.20 18:55:00 - [166] now now children
Wizie	Posted - 2006.03.20 19:10:00 - [167] Originally by: Kaylana Syi Originally by: Wizie Originally by: Kaylana Syi Originally by: KilROCK Edited by: KilROCK on 20/03/2006 14:41:08 Lame. Turn typhoon into a missile boat without any projectile bonuses left and you're one hell of a fool.. And to top it off, you use a typhoon for npcing, so no wonder you want to change it into a poor, raven. excuse me? My Typhoon has seen more pvp then NPC in its lifetime. I've NPC'ed with it 2,3 times and just got lvl 4 missions last month... after 2 years of having it. I have sat in missions with other people for maybe 20 missions at most and they were with jide when lvl 4s were brand spanking new. Stop trying to tell others their career history. You are not the definitive of minmatar fighting. You didn't give any numbers to back up your rebuttle. It was a personal attack. I NPC IN A PROPHECY!!! Anyone that knows me will raise their hand to that. I have done 2 lvl 4 missions of my own agent with my Typhoon. Sir, don't label me. If I want to use projectiles, which 1/3 of my SP investment belong too... I will fly a tempest. If I want to fly a Raven... sir... I will fly a raven. Moreover, I think missiles for NPC is a waste of isk. That is what lasers are for. I remember your response on my thread regarding tech II ammo type.. it was a 1 liner that did nothing to rebutt the points I had made... "sir"... Pfft pot meet kettle. I agree with KR. You agree with him about me, or about the ship? Because if you agree with him about me... you are the fool as he is. You spend 1 week and a half doing missions in Gulfonodi trying to score a lvl 4 agent and you get labeled a mission runner... sir you don't know me nor do you know what accounts I run. Some posts come off funny, and over the top... you feel that way about something I post then laugh at it, do a 1 liner, get your knuckle punch in. But KR has been doing it over and over to me the last months because he saw a fellow forum wh@re in the system he was in in a ship that she don't fly often. Both of you can kiss it. Personal insults.. thats brilliant. Anyhow, my opinion about you was formed on your 1 liner response to my request to have autocannon ammo get looked at. But this last post has only helped solidify that. I agree with KRs ideas on the Phoon.
Imhotep Khem	Posted - 2006.03.20 20:50:00 - [168] Well when you go from pvp to NPC as Minmatar typically you swap your nosferatus for siege launchers. So when folks hear 4xguns 4xsiege, naturally they think NPC because if you point that setup at any respectable pilot you may as well be making plans for your insurance payout. Truth: Most of the people that bother to pvp in Typhoon would not benefit at all from a missile bonus. My missiles skills are poor and I only briefly entertained them to bring use to the useless Hound. I'll train missiles when i get done with armor/shields/mw/cpu/speed/cap/guns/etc... all of which make more difference to minmatar than missiles. ____ If your not dyin' your not tryin'.
Severa Crest	Posted - 2006.03.20 22:04:00 - [169] Originally by: Testy Mctest Originally by: Pesadel0 Originally by: cy4n1d3 Edited by: cy4n1d3 on 20/03/2006 16:35:11 you guys are retarded. the phoon already holds its own, has plenty of grid, and the missile rof bonus will make it insane. you just need good skills. try 4xdual 425 2's and 4xarb sieges and 5x t2 heavy drones. you have plenty of room for a cap injector and a great armor tank and a couple BCS 2's. how about a faction version of it with an extra mid slot and more armor? You have power grid to fit that all in?? Someone else noticed, then :P As I keep saying. This new 'improved' Phoon will be a fine ship, as long as it gets another 2k grid. Correct, tried fitting one with a dual rep tank, cap injector, and an AB and after that theres not enough PG for 4 cruise and and 4 425s.
Pesadel0	Posted - 2006.03.20 23:00:00 - [170] Edited by: Pesadel0 on 20/03/2006 23:01:34 Originally by: Oberon Oblique Drum roll pls.... Change harpoints to 5/5 insted of 4/4 Bonus: 5% missiles and projetile ROF per lvl 5% velocity bonus per lvl Its still a flying trashcan, but you can get your funk on! Say you want it.. Seems cool to me the phoon keeps its funkinest and becomes a wildcard on the battle field ;)

Kashre	Posted - 2006.03.21 05:57:00 - [171] Originally by: Imhotep Khem Truth: Most of the people that bother to pvp in Typhoon would not benefit at all from a missile bonus. My missiles skills are poor and I only briefly entertained them to bring use to the useless Hound. I'll train missiles when i get done with armor/shields/mw/cpu/speed/cap/guns/etc... all of which make more difference to minmatar than missiles. Originally by: Imhotep Khem Well when you go from pvp to NPC as Minmatar typically you swap your nosferatus for siege launchers. So when folks hear 4xguns 4xsiege, naturally they think NPC because if you point that setup at any respectable pilot you may as well be making plans for your insurance payout. Truth: Most of the people that bother to pvp in Typhoon would not benefit at all from a missile bonus. My missiles skills are poor and I only briefly entertained them to bring use to the useless Hound. I'll train missiles when i get done with armor/shields/mw/cpu/speed/cap/guns/etc... all of which make more difference to minmatar than missiles. Thats probably not as true as you might think. Now a days, minmatar PvP revolvs around the tempest and it is deffinately a gunship, but long long ago projectiles were so crappy no one ever used them... back then all the "good" setups I had for a tempest even had 4 siege cause torps outdamaged 1400s even with good skills in gunnery (for the time), and they were the uber anti-frigate weapon. Id be willing to bet that a large number of the older minmatar pilots have as many missile SP as I do. +++ It's called "low security space" for a reason.
Valdor Hag	Posted - 2006.03.21 11:02:00 - [172] If you want a raven go fly a Raven, leave the Typhoon alone. Minmatar is about guns, if missiles are your thing go play with Caldari ships by all means. However, leave the Typhoon alone. If I wanted to do missiles, I would have gone with a missile race! Why is it that most of the people in here propagating these missile skills for the Typhoon arenÆt even Minmataar? What is it to you whether we have an ac ship in the Tempest or long range ship for that matter? If I wanted to make the typhoon an AC ship what is it to you? Are trying to convince me that I have to get large projectiles purely for one ship? Why do I, now have to go and get my missile skills up as well, to fly my favourite ship? This is like telling all the Raven pilots they need large artillery to fly their Ravens even though they don't want it or need it!! May I suggest we add Large artily bonus to the Raven? Moreover, while were at it letÆs split it 4/4 as well I donÆt think you Caldari would like that now would you? So leave the Minmitar ships alone. Let the DevÆs give it the bonuses that they want but for heavens sake stop propagating missiles. Every time the Minmatar hear that word we get shafted so stop it please.
Nafri	Posted - 2006.03.21 11:03:00 - [173] Originally by: Kashre Originally by: Imhotep Khem Truth: Most of the people that bother to pvp in Typhoon would not benefit at all from a missile bonus. My missiles skills are poor and I only briefly entertained them to bring use to the useless Hound. I'll train missiles when i get done with armor/shields/mw/cpu/speed/cap/guns/etc... all of which make more difference to minmatar than missiles. Originally by: Imhotep Khem Well when you go from pvp to NPC as Minmatar typically you swap your nosferatus for siege launchers. So when folks hear 4xguns 4xsiege, naturally they think NPC because if you point that setup at any respectable pilot you may as well be making plans for your insurance payout. Truth: Most of the people that bother to pvp in Typhoon would not benefit at all from a missile bonus. My missiles skills are poor and I only briefly entertained them to bring use to the useless Hound. I'll train missiles when i get done with armor/shields/mw/cpu/speed/cap/guns/etc... all of which make more difference to minmatar than missiles. Thats probably not as true as you might think. Now a days, minmatar PvP revolvs around the tempest and it is deffinately a gunship, but long long ago projectiles were so crappy no one ever used them... back then all the "good" setups I had for a tempest even had 4 siege cause torps outdamaged 1400s even with good skills in gunnery (for the time), and they were the uber anti-frigate weapon. Id be willing to bet that a large number of the older minmatar pilots have as many missile SP as I do. but back then my 1million SP in missles were more than enough
MissileRus	Posted - 2006.03.21 11:08:00 - [174] missile ROF is fine. thanks Tux! i agree there are some fitting issues, but bonuses are fine now for a tier 1 BS, it got a very nice dps bonus now. cant wait to test it --------------------------- 4. i like pizza
Nafri	Posted - 2006.03.21 11:12:00 - [175] Originally by: MissileRus missile ROF is fine. thanks Tux! i agree there are some fitting issues, but bonuses are fine now for a tier 1 BS, it got a very nice dps bonus now. cant wait to test it it has a single damage bonus, really great
Veriane	Posted - 2006.03.21 11:13:00 - [176] poor Nafri, going to have to hold off on Large projectile spec 5 then ?
smallgreenblur	Posted - 2006.03.21 11:29:00 - [177] Originally by: Nafri but back then my 1million SP in missles were more than enough So fricking true. /me stops training gunnery skills and goes to find some missiles ones. sgb P.S. i actually quite like that 4/4 setup for the new phoon, should give out a decent dps since it uses all 8 slots, unlike many of the other bs out there. sgb
Pesadel0	Posted - 2006.03.21 13:29:00 - [178] Originally by: smallgreenblur Originally by: Nafri but back then my 1million SP in missles were more than enough So fricking true. /me stops training gunnery skills and goes to find some missiles ones. sgb P.S. i actually quite like that 4/4 setup for the new phoon, should give out a decent dps since it uses all 8 slots, unlike many of the other bs out there. sgb Back in the days of the 1400 apocs? Or when we had to whine a 20 page tempest thread, to receive the boost to 1400 ? I know the devs have alot of work but some things take so long it ,seems its eternal .. Make the typhhon the last hope,when last hope is activated ,phoon has 20 seconds then it selfdestructs doing massive damage in a 15Km radius. BOnus: 5% to afterburner velocity 5% to armor repairer velocity.
Bob ThePlumber	Posted - 2006.03.21 15:00:00 - [179] since im training torpedos lvl5 for the naglfar (another lousy split weapon systems ship) i figured i'd take another look at the typhoon with T2 siege and T2 autos...it doesnt work, to fit the guns and a reasonable armor tank, i have to put on atleast 1 co-procesor and RCU II, making the tank NOT reasonable, 5 slot tanks dont work for BSs, its the reason the tempest cant shield tank for ****. if you want the typhoon to be worth using, you have to do more the change the bonus, that is only 1 part of the whole mess...but since the minmatar race is the laughing stock at CCP, i wouldnt expect any such changes to make it a useable ship.
Cmd Woodlouse	Posted - 2006.03.21 15:18:00 - [180] 6 Hislots, only turrets, half dronebay 10% falloff, 5% proj. damage switch armor with shield -------------------------------- I am G and i am IRON - as we all are brothers in arms and times of need.

Kaylana Syi	Posted - 2006.03.21 15:31:00 - [181] Edited by: Kaylana Syi on 21/03/2006 15:31:31 I don't care if I have to train missile skills. I have both L Proj Specialties at 4 and I am training torps to 5 for naglfar, the only skill I need to make it complete. I don't care about pve, I am not a missile junkie. 1 don't have much sp invested in them... along the same sp nafri has probably. So... whatever. @Wiz... Don't even remember what I said in your post about t2 ammo but tech 2 ammo is a joke at every level. The thread I remember one semi-trolling [but was very serious] recently is the Domi needs pg thread... which is a totally joke. Whatever, you all can think of the typhoon how you want I will still fly it. Doesn't matter to me if it has 4 missile slots or 8 or 4 turret slots or 8... my speed and missile suggestion was for people who were asking for the speed bonus and why I think it would have to be missiles if it was 4+4. Obviosly [lowblow] you are inept enought to read english and read everything as ambiguously and err on the negative side. Somepeople just want the ship to make sense. Originally by: "Oveur" I don't react to threats any better than you do
Al Haquis	Posted - 2006.03.21 15:43:00 - [182] Seeing that i am posting in all the Minnie ship threads today i will do it here . I Dig the changes. To the person whining about not beeing abile to fit Siege launchers and big guns and a major armour tank , WHY DONT you try to Fit a Death star there also. cant wait to test this ship after the changes . Was thinking in these lines. High 4x 1200 4x Cruise missile launchers Med Sensor booster 2 tracking comp 2 painter 2 100 mn ab Low 3x gyro2 3x BCU2 and if we are in a BE mood , 2 wcs. Then 5 sentry drones :) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Council Member, Tahiri Warrior Masuat'aa Forums
Kaylana Syi	Posted - 2006.03.21 16:04:00 - [183] Edited by: Kaylana Syi on 21/03/2006 16:05:15 Originally by: Cmd Woodlouse 6 Hislots, only turrets, half dronebay 10% falloff, 5% proj. damage switch armor with shield It would then always be a bastard Tempest. You would need 2 RCU II to begin to fit 6 1400 IIs. Its slots would become : 6 1400 IIs 2x Sensor booster IIs, 2 tracking computer 2s 3 Gyro IIs, 2 RCU IIs and 2 whatever ( wcs, tracking enhancer, sensor amp etc ) Why would people fly that over a Tempest? Which is the problem we have now. An armageddon would do equivelant or better in fleet combat with beams. As for AC Phoon 6 x 650 IIs MWD/AB , Cap Injector, web, scram Dual L Rep, hardners etc Why would this be any better than a Tempest, which will most certainly have 2 Large NOS? Drones? I think 2 Large NoS and 5 Medium Drones are better than 5 Medium Drones. Especially on smaller targets. AKA... bastard ship even more. Originally by: "Oveur" I don't react to threats any better than you do
KilROCK	Posted - 2006.03.21 16:06:00 - [184] i'd like to have 5/4 (turret/missiles). Feels like a big cyclone slot wise like that. Originally by: Ithildin Q: Will the Gallente ship have lots of missiles? I think it's time. A: Die. You are not
Severa Crest	Posted - 2006.03.21 16:30:00 - [185] I think whatever happens CCP have to give some incentive to fit guns on the phoon. 4 x projectile turrets with only 5% ROF wont be worth fitting over levering as much nos into those 4 slots as possible.
Nafri	Posted - 2006.03.21 16:42:00 - [186] Originally by: Pesadel0 Originally by: smallgreenblur Originally by: Nafri but back then my 1million SP in missles were more than enough So fricking true. /me stops training gunnery skills and goes to find some missiles ones. sgb P.S. i actually quite like that 4/4 setup for the new phoon, should give out a decent dps since it uses all 8 slots, unlike many of the other bs out there. sgb Back in the days of the 1400 apocs? Or when we had to whine a 20 page tempest thread, to receive the boost to 1400 ? I know the devs have alot of work but some things take so long it ,seems its eternal .. Make the typhhon the last hope,when last hope is activated ,phoon has 20 seconds then it selfdestructs doing massive damage in a 15Km radius. BOnus: 5% to afterburner velocity 5% to armor repairer velocity. back when m0o terrorized FA
Imhotep Khem	Posted - 2006.03.21 17:07:00 - [187] I think they need to address two issues 1. The low skill efficiency of the Typhoon. 2. The low effective bonus per slot ratio of the Typhoon. ____ If your not dyin' your not tryin'.
Kaylana Syi	Posted - 2006.03.21 19:24:00 - [188] Originally by: Imhotep Khem I think they need to address two issues 1. The low skill efficiency of the Typhoon. 2. The low effective bonus per slot ratio of the Typhoon. QFT Originally by: "Oveur" I don't react to threats any better than you do
Sarmaul	Posted - 2006.03.21 19:33:00 - [189] never forget that a 25% rof bonus to 4 turrets and a 25% rof bonus to 4 missiles gives the typhoon a single 25% rof bonus to it's highslots, basically leaving it without a second bonus. 37.5% or more please.
Wizie	Posted - 2006.03.21 20:56:00 - [190] Originally by: Kaylana Syi Edited by: Kaylana Syi on 21/03/2006 15:31:31 I don't care if I have to train missile skills. I have both L Proj Specialties at 4 and I am training torps to 5 for naglfar, the only skill I need to make it complete. I don't care about pve, I am not a missile junkie. 1 don't have much sp invested in them... along the same sp nafri has probably. So... whatever. @Wiz... Don't even remember what I said in your post about t2 ammo but tech 2 ammo is a joke at every level. The thread I remember one semi-trolling [but was very serious] recently is the Domi needs pg thread... which is a totally joke. Whatever, you all can think of the typhoon how you want I will still fly it. Doesn't matter to me if it has 4 missile slots or 8 or 4 turret slots or 8... my speed and missile suggestion was for people who were asking for the speed bonus and why I think it would have to be missiles if it was 4+4. Obviosly [lowblow] you are inept enought to read english and read everything as ambiguously and err on the negative side. Somepeople just want the ship to make sense. I dont know what you are ranting about... The tech II ammo was with regards to the EXTRA penalty that Proj ammo gets (4 as opposed to 3 for every other race). The missile bonus is something I am against, I like KR's ideas better. It has nothing to do with reading ability only with personal choice, and I think your idea was junk.

Wizie	Posted - 2006.03.21 20:59:00 - [191] Originally by: Cmd Woodlouse 6 Hislots, only turrets, half dronebay 10% falloff, 5% proj. damage switch armor with shield Dont mind the 6 turret idea but halving the dronebay is silly.
General Meridus	Posted - 2006.03.21 21:02:00 - [192] I don't think the average pilot really knows how good this ship will be with the proposed missle bonus. I can set this beast up many different ways. I already hold my own with any other race battle ship. It has a massive tank, lower sig, huge drone bay, and is fast. I can load a wave of heavy drones, and have room for 10 more lights, or another wave of mediums. I think of it as an advanced battle ship, in that it does take many, many skill points to use effectively. However, with high skill points the ship catches, then passes the others. I have max battle ship skills in 3 races, I always end up flying the phoon.
Wizie	Posted - 2006.03.21 21:09:00 - [193] Originally by: General Meridus I don't think the average pilot really knows how good this ship will be with the proposed missle bonus. I can set this beast up many different ways. I already hold my own with any other race battle ship. It has a massive tank, lower sig, huge drone bay, and is fast. I can load a wave of heavy drones, and have room for 10 more lights, or another wave of mediums. I think of it as an advanced battle ship, in that it does take many, many skill points to use effectively. However, with high skill points the ship catches, then passes the others. I have max battle ship skills in 3 races, I always end up flying the phoon. I have flown every BS in game with maxed skills (except for the Caldari stuff) and I hardly ever pick the phoon over other BS. Heck with good drone skills and nearly maxed gunnery (only auto spec 5 remains), Minmatar BS 5 and Gallente BS 4, I would pick the Dominix over the phoon.. The whole argument of after maxing out all skills in Eve you maybe able to do awesome things with this ship is a rather weak method of reasoning.
Sarmaul	Posted - 2006.03.21 21:11:00 - [194] Originally by: Wizie The whole argument of after maxing out all skills in Eve you maybe able to do awesome things with this ship is a rather weak method of reasoning. Not only is it weak, it's false.
Kaylana Syi	Posted - 2006.03.21 21:56:00 - [195] Edited by: Kaylana Syi on 21/03/2006 21:58:32 Problem with the whole split issue on highs isn't that its inferior becaue it is far from it. The problem lies with they require far more effort to balance. You can err on the side of negligance, and both bonii to one half of the ships highs. You can err on the side of too little too late and split the bonii to achieve 1 complete bonus comparatively. Both prove to be a 'too little too late cya next major revisioning next year and a half,' scenario I sure dont' want to repeat. I say choose a high bonus, give it 2 times what would normally would have gotten then apply a bonus to something else independant of the high slots. EG if you keep a 4/4 highslot: 10% AB Max Velocity 10% Projectile Damage swap shield hp to armor -or- 5% Ship Speed 10% Missile RoF swap shield hp to armor -or- Increase Ship speed by 20% base value Give 5% RoF to proj. Give 7.5% RoF to Missiles swap shield hp to armor Edit : Right now 4 d.650 on phoon != 4 d.650 on Tempest in damage. Originally by: "Oveur" I don't react to threats any better than you do
Pesadel0	Posted - 2006.03.21 22:08:00 - [196] Quote: EG if you keep a 4/4 highslot: 10% AB Max Velocity 10% Projectile Damage swap shield hp to armor That would make me a happy matar.
Sean Drake	Posted - 2006.03.21 22:35:00 - [197] Actually I like the look of this new Typhoon. tbh I don't see a problem with it now I admit it is kinda skill intensive but I think it could be worth it. I look at as the exact opposite of the scorp good defense but the fire power of a box of cheap fireworks. New Typhoon slightly sucky defense but between the Turrets,Missles and Drones this ship is going to be able to open a can of whoop ass. I will be taking proj to lvl5 to try it out anyway. Besides if you train missles and still don't like it you can come see how good the Cal bs's really are with your new skills.
Kashre	Posted - 2006.03.22 05:18:00 - [198] Edited by: Kashre on 22/03/2006 05:21:07 Haha... man I look at people who say minmatar are all about guns... then I look at how NO MINMATAR WARSHIP CURRENTLY IN THE GAME HAS ZERO MISSILE SLOTS, and a good number of them have enough missile slots to fill 50% of their highs... And then I laugh. If you people are only training gun skills than you're missing out on a LOT of the flexibility that minmatar ships have to offer. Read my virtual lips: We. Do. Not. Need. Another. Gun Based. Battleship. The tempest is a gunship. The tier 3 BS is going to be a gunship. There is no reason to make the phoon into a wana-be tempest. What we really need is a good EW ship.. but they're not going to do that with the phoon... so, I see 2 options... 1> do the oposite of what the amarr do: make our tier 1 a monster tank since our tier 2 is the monster (haha) damage dealer. 2> give us enough bonuses to utilize all of our high slots and make it a damage machine, as much as possible with projectile DOT. Which is what they're doing... so Im happy as long as the bonuses are high enough to balance. +++ It's called "low security space" for a reason.
KilROCK	Posted - 2006.03.22 05:22:00 - [199] Originally by: Kashre If you people are only training gun skills than you're missing out on a LOT of the flexibility that minmatar ships have to offer. Read my virtual lips: We. Do. Not. Need. Another. Gun Based. Battleship. Read my Virtual lips: We. Do. Not. Need. A. Half. Assed. Minmatar. Version. Of. A. Raven. As. a. Tier. 3. Bs. in. Kali. Minmatar have missile hardpoints, you choose to use them or you choose to use something else. The way the typhoon is getting changed. It doesn't mean you have to go all out in missile training for speccing and whatever for 1, i repeat. 1 Battleship we have that Might use more than 2 missile hardpoint on it. Level 4 skills on missile skilltree are more than enough as minmatar ships are mostly at 80% turret oriented while using 1-2 launchers on most ships as optional damage. Most fit nos, and i won't stop doing it Originally by: Ithildin Q: Will the Gallente ship have lots of missiles? I think it's time. A: Kill yourself, you don't deserve to live.
Kashre	Posted - 2006.03.22 05:32:00 - [200] Edited by: Kashre on 22/03/2006 05:33:54 Originally by: KilROCK Originally by: Kashre If you people are only training gun skills than you're missing out on a LOT of the flexibility that minmatar ships have to offer. Read my virtual lips: We. Do. Not. Need. Another. Gun Based. Battleship. Read my Virtual lips: We. Do. Not. Need. A. Half. Assed. Minmatar. Version. Of. A. Raven. As. a. Tier. 3. Bs. in. Kali. Uhm... we're talking about the current tier 1 BS, not the tier 3 in kali. In any event, just cause you give the phoon a bonus to missiles doesnt make it resemble a raven in any way shape or form. Its an armor tank. Its a fast ship. It has a huge drone bay. Its way rustier. It will have a much different kind of flexibility from the raven. AC+missiles? It works. AC + nos? It works. Missiles + nos? It works too. It will be able to increase its DOT across all 8 turrets! How can that not be a good thing? If I want a crappy gunship, I'll take a tempest and only put 5 guns on it. This way it (the phoon) maintains the thing that makes it unique. Any minmatar who doesnt train the basic misile spec skills up to a decent level is loosing out bigtime on all the ships we fly anyways. It doesnt take THAT much training... and you dont HAVE to use t2 launchers. You probably cant use all t2 launchers and guns with any kind of decent setup on a phoon anyways. Not enough grid. +++ It's called "low security space" for a reason.

KilROCK	Posted - 2006.03.22 05:37:00 - [201] Edited by: KilROCK on 22/03/2006 05:38:33 Quote: Its an armor tank. Its a fast ship. It has a huge drone bay. Its way rustier. It will have a much different kind of flexibility from the raven. The ship only gets more flexibility. It's like people saying the dominix isn't best with nos. It's better with guns. Then you get the typhoon. It's better with missiles than nos, but does it matter if you can use them when you can break a tank with the nos faster? And oh. Dual 425mm II + 4 Cruise launcher II, 20km, heavy cap injector, AB, web. (whatever mids tbh). 2 Large rep, 3 t2 Hardener,1600mm tungsten or Damage control or 20% energized adaptive nano, RCU II Sure, It even fits with Siege launcher. It's a nice setup. I'd still use my nos setup over that. Originally by: Ithildin Q: Will the Gallente ship have lots of missiles? I think it's time. A: Kill yourself, you don't deserve to live.
OrangeAfroMan	Posted - 2006.03.22 06:01:00 - [202] Originally by: KilROCK It's better with missiles than nos, but does it matter if you can use them when you can break a tank with the nos faster? It's a nice setup. I'd still use my nos setup over that. Thats exactly what I'm saying in the Minmatar missle ship post.. They either dont have enough bonuses/hardpoints to make it worth using missles over nos.. Or in this case not enough for using missles + guns instead of guns + nos. Minmatar might as well have Nos as their secondary weapon type.. Because thats all that ever gets used 90% of the time in those missle hardpoints...
Malvan	Posted - 2006.03.22 10:49:00 - [203] Fix it like the Cyclone's boost bonus, multiply it by 1.5 for each bonus. Since most ships with similar bonus can concetrate on a single weapon. with +5ROF/+5Dam, give the split-weapon ships a 1.5x bonus to each weapon. So maybe +7.5% missile ROF and +7.5% Proj ROF. Not a double bonus to each but the flexibility is still there and it's better than having the equivalent of a single DPS bonus across all weapons. 'A flag that has no nation makes an enemy of the world' - The Golden Apple.
Lucian Alucard	Posted - 2006.03.22 11:25:00 - [204] I always liked the idea of it being a armor tanking,missle spamming,drone zerging monster of gankage. ----------------------------------------------- Done is done Yes, there will be no taking back Every journey must come to an end All hail to the Gunslinger Beyond our reach, out of control
Naughty Boy	Posted - 2006.03.22 11:33:00 - [205] I don't really understand why some of you want those damage bonuses so badly. The only reason for the low damage of the typhoon (in comparison to other battleships with damage mods) is the split weapon system. It is not because of the typhoon lacking damage in itself and damage bonuses aren't going to help. As the ship doesn't get much out of weapon upgrades - in other words, and as the marginal advantage of fitting them is so low because of the split weapon hardpoints - it gets more out of tanking and as a result, nosferatus and neutralizers are used to help the tank and help breaking tanks faster/easier (... and also because it increases the versatility of the fitting, but that's not really the point here). In the end, the ship isn't versatile when it comes to fitting it, but is versatile once fitted. I know i won't fly the typhoon, new bonuses or not, if i can't have more versatility when fitting the ship. 4 missiles hardpoints/4 turrets hardpoints is a no go for me. I understand that some people might like it but it sounds very selfish to argue that it's an option that we can't have because they don't want to have it. An option never gets a negative value so there's no loss for anyone. Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy.
Krige	Posted - 2006.03.22 11:56:00 - [206] Points to agree on: The Typhoon does require high skills to fly well It doesn't have as clear a role as other ships It does have a bit of a problem Personal views: The Missile RoF bonus would be fantastic. Certainly for my setup, this would seriously improve the ship. More armor would be nice too of course... But please CCP: Don't make it something it isn't. It's an oddball ship, it taked more getting used to, more setup effort, and more training than any other ship I've flown, but please don't make me waste the time spent in a phoon so far - improve its strengths as they stand. No need to be sidetracked by those who simply want a small Tempest, or a Minmatar Scorpion or whatever. K.
Leandro Salazar	Posted - 2006.03.22 11:58:00 - [207] The low damage due to split weapons can be almost negated through 7.5% bonuses though (almost because the disadvantage remains when you fit damage mods). Other people have done the math here already and I hope CCP sees it and includes it. It would finally give those split slot ships a reason for existance other than being 'different'. ___________________________________ Evacuate? In our moment of triumph?
Xantina	Posted - 2006.03.22 12:16:00 - [208] I think the one thing I don't like is that in order to fly this tier 1 BS with some efficiency I almost need more skills than for the tier 2 tempest. This doesn't seem right.
Krige	Posted - 2006.03.22 12:22:00 - [209] Originally by: Xantina I think the one thing I don't like is that in order to fly this tier 1 BS with some efficiency I almost need more skills than for the tier 2 tempest. This doesn't seem right. Well, sort of. But I suspect that Scorpion pilots feel the same.
FunkerVogt	Posted - 2006.03.22 12:43:00 - [210] Love my typhoon; I suppose it comes from always favoring the underdog. Anyway, it armor tanks beautifully; the cpu is higher than a tempest, which is nice, considering it's virtually worthless to shield tank if you want anything other than hardeners and a booster + boost amplifier or some form of afterburner. Webber? Waste of space, imo, drones should pick up the slack, considering the drone bay is a strong point. The split layout is disappointing; I agree with most people on that fact. There simply isn't enough grid to make effective use, even with perfect skills - either you have four siege for highest potential or you sac those for artillery. The RoF bonus is nice; the optimal range isn't worth looking at - again, I agree with RoF of missiles is a good idea. Considering it has a little less armor on shield + armor, I think maybe a resist bonus or overall armor bonus would be a nice perk, too.

Testy Mctest	Posted - 2006.03.22 12:46:00 - [211] Originally by: Pesadel0 5% to armor repairer velocity. Yeh, I hate it when Im shooting armour repairers at people....they take ages before they hit. Testy's Eve Blog!
Jerusalem Man	Posted - 2006.03.22 14:24:00 - [212] If they're going to change to a missile rof bonus tidy up the little problems as well: 7.5% projectile & missile rof swap shield and armour hp a smidge more pg and surely the Fleet is researching: a 5/5 turret/missile split an extra low (or mid) an extra 3-4% speed/bs lvl
haq aan	Posted - 2006.03.22 17:47:00 - [213] Originally by: Oberon Oblique Drum roll pls.... Change harpoints to 5/5 insted of 4/4 Bonus: 5% missiles and projetile ROF per lvl 5% velocity bonus per lvl Its still a flying trashcan, but you can get your funk on! Say you want it.. This is the BEST SUGGESTION ever ..(i read all ,some said the same or similar also) PLUS - reduce the Mass - tweak PG & CPU
Sarmaul	Posted - 2006.03.22 17:53:00 - [214] Originally by: Testy Mctest Originally by: Pesadel0 5% to armor repairer velocity. Yeh, I hate it when Im shooting armour repairers at people....they take ages before they hit. rofl
Pesadel0	Posted - 2006.03.22 18:16:00 - [215] Originally by: Sarmaul Originally by: Testy Mctest Originally by: Pesadel0 5% to armor repairer velocity. Yeh, I hate it when Im shooting armour repairers at people....they take ages before they hit. rofl Now imagine when i use my arties as rocks
Orvy	Posted - 2006.03.27 16:26:00 - [216] I'd be happy with 7.5% to launcher and projectiles RoF on a typhoon. Or, as it has been mentioned before, the bonus to drone damage and velocity would be welcome. ______________________________________________ Fighting for perfection of sweets recepies
Valdor Hag	Posted - 2006.04.09 09:36:00 - [217] Looks like this thread is dying a slow death. Yet we do not have any updates from the powers that be, since the last comments by Tux on this issue. So when is it going to happen? I have surrender myself to the fact that I will have to do missiles as well, so scratch getting large arties for now and started training those missiles. I would appreciate it, if an expected due date for the changes is announced. That at least, will give us an indication of how long we have to get those missile skills up. PS. SoonÖ just ainÆt doing it!
Marcus Alkhaar	Posted - 2006.04.09 10:10:00 - [218] null Originally by: dabster Split bonuses is RETARDED on a ship like Phoon. Give it rof+dmg bonus to large projectiles, and 5 turrets, ya know, like a PROPER SHIP. A tempest with 3 nos in highs and better at armor tanking? hm? BOOOORRRIIINNNGGG! doesnt fly Matari ships
Aloysius Knight	Posted - 2006.04.09 11:05:00 - [219] well it also needs more grid not much just 1-2k more....please?
Lonectzn	Posted - 2006.04.09 11:07:00 - [220] Originally by: Marcus Alkhaar null Originally by: dabster Split bonuses is RETARDED on a ship like Phoon. Give it rof+dmg bonus to large projectiles, and 5 turrets, ya know, like a PROPER SHIP. A tempest with 3 nos in highs and better at armor tanking? hm? BOOOORRRIIINNNGGG! doesnt fly Matari ships Would be a temp but: + 1 nos, 2 heavy drones, low, cpu, speed - 1 turret, mid, grid, cap, hp. TBH I think it might possibly be a half decent ship, but not in a way I'd like. Would have grid issues. -----------------

CptEagle	Posted - 2006.04.09 11:18:00 - [221] Typhoon can fit 8 weapons and get a dps bonus to all of them. There is no other battleship that can do the same. Maybe thats an advantage.
Tachy	Posted - 2006.04.09 11:33:00 - [222] ... paid with lowest locking range and hard cut weapon system separation, along with highest cost of all tier1 bs and the tank using the same slots as the weapon support modules in the low slots that can only improve half of the weapons each. Oveur is recovering from pneumonia. And he's probably not the only ev with health problems these days. TomB is in China. He's probably not alone. Now, why is there nothing going ahead on the game fixing? --==*-- Megadon CCP wanted a well known artist and celebrity to test the new font so it's approval would be well known. They got Ray
Vladimir Sheva	Posted - 2006.04.09 12:01:00 - [223] I just think that CCP have been playing a funny game called "lets screw minie ships" and I dont like it. Give minie a chance!
Neon Genesis	Posted - 2006.04.09 12:40:00 - [224] Edited by: Neon Genesis on 09/04/2006 12:40:05 It's pretty simple really. Split weapon types/bonuses is pointblank WORSE than a more polarised set of bonuses and slots, like the mega or tempest. There, i just contributed nothing to your thread
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2006.04.09 13:05:00 - [225] Originally by: Neon Genesis Edited by: Neon Genesis on 09/04/2006 12:40:05 It's pretty simple really. Split weapon types/bonuses is pointblank WORSE than a more polarised set of bonuses and slots, like the mega or tempest. I wouldnt mind the split weapon system if it actually gave some advantages that the other ships doesnt have. The training required to master tech 2 missiles, tech 2 projectiles and tech 2 drones is huge. So it would be fair if all this training gave some advantages that, for example, a 4 month Raven pilot doesnt have. --- "Automatic override. Manual control overridden by autopilot. Please wait for operation to complete. You can override the automatic autopilot override in 28 seconds. Then you can make it wait"
Pesadel0	Posted - 2006.04.09 13:19:00 - [226] Originally by: CptEagle Typhoon can fit 8 weapons and get a dps bonus to all of them. There is no other battleship that can do the same. Maybe thats an advantage. Hum ?Get to fit 8 weapons but the bonus only aplly to 4 ..
Karazack	Posted - 2006.04.09 13:20:00 - [227] Edited by: Karazack on 09/04/2006 13:21:07 Edited by: Karazack on 09/04/2006 13:20:18 first 2 things should be adressed independent of the ships boni: - switch armor and shield hp amount - reduce costs by 10 Mio to bring it in line with other tier1 bs now for the boni: 1. +5% RoF for both missile AND guns / lvl (keep 4/4 slot layout ofc) for second bonus sth like: - +5% Drone Damage / lvl (large drone bay IS sth phoon specific after all) or - +5% velocity/lvl (speed is sth phoon specific also) or - +5% nos and neut effectiveness / lvl or - 5% less penalty to max capacitor for MWDs (speed again) there: balanced ship, different role then tempest
Eximius Josari	Posted - 2006.04.09 17:17:00 - [228] I think the Typhoon is great lol...even tho Im flying Amarr now >.> ~Shadowlord Victory is the weakness of the enemy.


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