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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Remedial
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Posted - 2006.03.18 23:10:00 -
[1]
There is nothing more frustrating in Eve right now than a group of 10 sniping battleships, stuffed with T2 guns and T2 ammo.
They can literally sit 150-200km away from virtually any smaller ship and pound it into pieces in seconds. Since the game relies on an "align to warp" system instead of some inherant countdown for warping away, a group of BS can warp in, fire while realigning to a safespot, then warp away to the safespot as soon as anything gets within even 50km of them. No scrambler reaches that far. No interdictor bubble is big enough. No covert is fast enough to bridge the gap before the BS's are realigned. No probing is fast enough to find the new safespot those BSs just went to. Warp bubbles pre-deployed do not catch people who warp in from "off" angles - it's just an uncounterable move unless you have your own set of sniping BS.
Instead of interdictors being the great counter to sniping BS, sniping BS now use interdictors to just lock down enemy fleets so they can snipe them even harder. Instead of coverts being a potential counter, sniping BS just warp to coverts at 100 so they can be 150-200km away from their targets.
Only the longest range EW has a chance *CHANCE* of working at 200+km, and only a very few ships will work for that. And even if the EW works, you still haven't removed the sniping BS, just delayed him. Plus it's hard to get an entire gang of sniping BS EW'd at the same time with no overlap or missed targets.
Even a carrier has a hard time dealing with BS snipers. Since you can just insta to a gate and leave if you're targeted by fighters, or instadock, they aren't effective at actually killing snipers. Also if you're at extreme range it still takes the fighters some time to get to you, and a sniping BS gang can simply pop a couple fighters as they approach and then warp off since they don't scramble - or better yet, go to a safespot and have the guy tank the fighters while everybody shoots them off of him!
T2 ammo have just made this whole process worse. Now there are "guided precision" missiles and other ammos that can make a BS sniper hit from farther away, hit smaller ships like inties or other tacklers harder, and make it so that they don't even have to devote lowslots to WCS so they can just pile on more tracking enhancers, etc.
I think that this is significantly effecting high-level game balance. Fleet combat is all about who can bring a few interdictors, a few coverts, some EW and craploads of sniping BS since virtually anything else is a waste in large numbers. In small combat, small groups can't do jack against a lone T2 laden T2 ammo sniping BS. He can just bounce from safe to safe to safe and come in whenever and wherever he pleases - especially if he has an alt covops to run around with him.
I don't know how to fix this problem, but I hope I'm not the only person *****ing about it.
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Gibmundur
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Posted - 2006.03.18 23:17:00 -
[2]
Yup sniping is booring
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BurnHard
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Posted - 2006.03.18 23:27:00 -
[3]
Lol @goonwaffe. Here's my take on the situation you are complaining about. You were trying to camp a gate with your 20+ gang and a fleet of 7 or 8 sniping battleships warped in. You had to run away. You came back, they returned, rinse and repeat.
If you want to counter them, get your own covert ops to scout a position on their sniping spot and you warp to it. Otherwise, quite complaining.
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Remedial
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Posted - 2006.03.18 23:28:00 -
[4]
Originally by: BurnHard
If you want to counter them, get your own covert ops to scout a position on their sniping spot and you warp to it. Otherwise, quite complaining.
How exactly are you supposed to do that if their covert ops is cloaked, too?
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Furnok Dorn
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Posted - 2006.03.18 23:29:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Remedial
Originally by: BurnHard
If you want to counter them, get your own covert ops to scout a position on their sniping spot and you warp to it. Otherwise, quite complaining.
How exactly are you supposed to do that if their covert ops is cloaked, too?
Use recon ships. Get in close, scramble the whole lot right away. Or get your own counter-snipers.
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Franky B
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Posted - 2006.03.18 23:33:00 -
[6]
there's an effective counter to them... but they dont involve frigates :P
as you may have just seen about 10 minutes ago
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Remedial
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Posted - 2006.03.18 23:34:00 -
[7]
Yeah except that's about 20 times harder than actually sniping, plus it's difficult to pull off on pre-aligned battleships with WCS and other fun mods. The point of a "counter" is not to be theoretically possible but realistically improbable - it's to provide a fairly simple solution to a similarly simple problem. Guy warps in at 200km with T2 guns and T2 ammo... but the suggested counter is some team effort involving cloaking recon cruisers and CovOps and your own anti-BS ships? That seems pretty complicated for a game that's all about balance.
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BurnHard
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Posted - 2006.03.18 23:42:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Remedial Yeah except that's about 20 times harder than actually sniping, plus it's difficult to pull off on pre-aligned battleships with WCS and other fun mods. The point of a "counter" is not to be theoretically possible but realistically improbable - it's to provide a fairly simple solution to a similarly simple problem. Guy warps in at 200km with T2 guns and T2 ammo... but the suggested counter is some team effort involving cloaking recon cruisers and CovOps and your own anti-BS ships? That seems pretty complicated for a game that's all about balance.
What do you want to do? Scramble him from 200km away? If your goal is to actually kill him, you are out of luck. If your goal was to kill my Covert Ops, you'd also be out of luck (as an example). If you just want to counter them, then you just need to warp on top of them, you don't need to get your c-ops to scramble them. Once you are in their snipe spot, they are no longer effective. You win.
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Jaabaa Prime
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Posted - 2006.03.18 23:50:00 -
[9]
Agreed, a sniping BS gang is a pain in the butt.
In all honesty though, if their pilots have earnt the skills to use T2 weapons and T2 ammo then it is their duly earnt skill based advantage.
The only real way of countering such an attack has already been stated, so stop whining. --
Mini Skill Planner |
Kyguard
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Posted - 2006.03.18 23:50:00 -
[10]
Some of you are by far the most ignorant people I have seen on these forums.
I agree with you Rem, sniping is lame when it is used in anything other than fleet fights. Sniping from 100km is fine tbh, but from 150-200km where you can't lock or hit without a complete sniper setup... needs to be fixed.
-|-
God is on the side with the best artillery.
I think he meant lasers.. |
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Lord Noodle
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Posted - 2006.03.18 23:52:00 -
[11]
Translation of Remedials post:
Hi, we want to zerg lone people with our 300 man noob fleet in Herons and Condors. Please don't use anti-blob tactics against us, no fair!
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d4ve
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Posted - 2006.03.18 23:56:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Kyguard I agree with you Rem, sniping is lame when it is used in anything other than fleet fights.
well, it was a fleet fight about a minute after the goons jumped in. and we had a disadvantage in bs numbers (not to mention total numbers). so yeah.... stop crying
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Elve Sorrow
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Posted - 2006.03.19 00:05:00 -
[13]
Quite simply put: Deal with it.
If you're in Frigates and you die to Battleships sniping at 200k then you're just being ******* stupid and deserve to die.
Yours,
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Sarmaul
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Posted - 2006.03.19 00:10:00 -
[14]
if you're in 0.0, an interdictor does wonders.
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MolRob
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Posted - 2006.03.19 00:16:00 -
[15]
reduce tha maximum locking range to 50Km.
no. wait... i have an eagle somewhere:P (witch is lame i have to addmit, but effective)
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Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2006.03.19 00:16:00 -
[16]
Sensor boosters being either range of speed would be a good first step.
Remind me about The Maze.
I'm Danton Marcellus and I approve of this message. |
IamBen
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Posted - 2006.03.19 00:19:00 -
[17]
If you are in small ships just be mobile. Set up in another system. They cant snipe when they are jumping in through the gate :)
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Kye Kenshin
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Posted - 2006.03.19 00:22:00 -
[18]
200km sniping BS is pretty lame and boring when you really think about it.
100-140km is ok though.
Only problem is not much you can do about it
Maybe frig only 40km scramblers are needed.
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Daniel Cartman
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Posted - 2006.03.19 00:25:00 -
[19]
When you are faced up with a much large force (blob!) sniping is the only way to hurt them without loosing much yourself.
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Foulis
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Posted - 2006.03.19 00:40:00 -
[20]
Deal with it. Snipers have every right to their kills because they are setting up ships to be usefull in one, and only one situation. If you manage to get on top of them they are screwed. If you warp away, they don't get the kill and they can't stop you from doing that. ---- I <3 Taranis
Cake > Pie - Imaran
Originally by: CCP Hammer Boobies
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.03.19 00:46:00 -
[21]
A scorpion with a few sensor damps can activate one per sniping battleship--none will be able to lock any more.
A covops can also warp your fleet on them and you can kill them.
On the other hand, this is what you get for only using frigates.
[23] Member: Official Forum Warrior
What's with the blue robots? Click my sig.
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Farjung
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Posted - 2006.03.19 00:55:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Farjung on 19/03/2006 00:55:36
Originally by: Dark Shikari A scorpion with a few sensor damps can activate one per sniping battleship--none will be able to lock any more.
Remote sensor damper II has base optimal of 30km, falloff of 60km.
With maxed skills, optimal of 45km, falloff of 90km.
So 50% chance to damp at 135km. Fairly small chance to damp at 200km.
---
Video: Wave of Mutilation |
Nifel
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Posted - 2006.03.19 01:02:00 -
[23]
The wonders of T2 ammo... CCP please fix it :<.
"We wield swords for the sound of laughter that used to be there long ago." RKK Ranking: (MIN13) Jata |
Foulis
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Posted - 2006.03.19 01:10:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Farjung Edited by: Farjung on 19/03/2006 00:55:36
Originally by: Dark Shikari A scorpion with a few sensor damps can activate one per sniping battleship--none will be able to lock any more.
Remote sensor damper II has base optimal of 30km, falloff of 60km.
With maxed skills, optimal of 45km, falloff of 90km.
So 50% chance to damp at 135km. Fairly small chance to damp at 200km.
Then just warp away, deny them the field of battle. ---- I <3 Taranis
Cake > Pie - Imaran
Originally by: CCP Hammer Boobies
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.03.19 01:16:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Farjung Edited by: Farjung on 19/03/2006 00:55:36
Originally by: Dark Shikari A scorpion with a few sensor damps can activate one per sniping battleship--none will be able to lock any more.
Remote sensor damper II has base optimal of 30km, falloff of 60km.
With maxed skills, optimal of 45km, falloff of 90km.
So 50% chance to damp at 135km. Fairly small chance to damp at 200km.
Wrong. Falloff for ECM doesn't affect chance to jam, it affects jam strength.
But even if you damp someone just 20%... they can no longer lock.
[23] Member: Official Forum Warrior
What's with the blue robots? Click my sig.
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Na'Kota
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Posted - 2006.03.19 01:22:00 -
[26]
This topic probably would have got a much better response if it hadn't been posted by a Goonfleet/Waffe member, now instead of intelligent discussion we have people like Lord Noodle making what they believe to be comedic responses based on our very, very old reputation.
Stop with the stupid "Hurrr frigates, 300 man newbie blob" comments guys because that's not at all what Rem is referring to.
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.03.19 01:23:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Maya Rkell on 19/03/2006 01:23:41
Originally by: Danton Marcellus Sensor boosters being either range of speed would be a good first step.
No, not really. Because the BS have enough sensor boosters to slap on 2 of each. What's needed is a lower soft cap on range. Change sensor boosters to +20/+20 not +50/+50. (and +25/+25 for T2).
This is an old problem, and Remedial is quite right to think it's an issue.
Digital Communist> The Jin-Mei are probably more profficient in training for Tofu and Noodles than Spaceship Command |
fuze
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Posted - 2006.03.19 01:48:00 -
[28]
Bout 2 yrs ago there was a similar post about sniping BS because of sensor boosters and factional guns. People adapted to this new opportunity and learned to live with it.
Rinse and repeat. ___________________________ Ethernal glory is hugely overrated. |
Alexis DeTocqueville
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Posted - 2006.03.19 01:49:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Alexis DeTocqueville on 19/03/2006 01:49:41 Posting in a Remedial thread.
EDIT: Also agreeing, but that wasn't enough reason to post.
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Valkazm
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Posted - 2006.03.19 02:06:00 -
[30]
anyone else crying .. ?
heard some crying and whining ... oh well *walk of*
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