| Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 .. 18 :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
portriat
   |
Posted - 2006.03.19 02:10:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: Remedial
There is nothing more frustrating in Eve right now than a group of 10 sniping battleships, stuffed with T2 guns and T2 ammo.
They can literally sit 150-200km away from virtually any smaller ship and pound it into pieces in seconds. Since the game relies on an "align to warp" system instead of some inherant countdown for warping away, a group of BS can warp in, fire while realigning to a safespot, then warp away to the safespot as soon as anything gets within even 50km of them. No scrambler reaches that far. No interdictor bubble is big enough. No covert is fast enough to bridge the gap before the BS's are realigned. No probing is fast enough to find the new safespot those BSs just went to. Warp bubbles pre-deployed do not catch people who warp in from "off" angles - it's just an uncounterable move unless you have your own set of sniping BS.
Instead of interdictors being the great counter to sniping BS, sniping BS now use interdictors to just lock down enemy fleets so they can snipe them even harder. Instead of coverts being a potential counter, sniping BS just warp to coverts at 100 so they can be 150-200km away from their targets.
Only the longest range EW has a chance *CHANCE* of working at 200+km, and only a very few ships will work for that. And even if the EW works, you still haven't removed the sniping BS, just delayed him. Plus it's hard to get an entire gang of sniping BS EW'd at the same time with no overlap or missed targets.
Even a carrier has a hard time dealing with BS snipers. Since you can just insta to a gate and leave if you're targeted by fighters, or instadock, they aren't effective at actually killing snipers. Also if you're at extreme range it still takes the fighters some time to get to you, and a sniping BS gang can simply pop a couple fighters as they approach and then warp off since they don't scramble - or better yet, go to a safespot and have the guy tank the fighters while everybody shoots them off of him!
T2 ammo have just made this whole process worse. Now there are "guided precision" missiles and other ammos that can make a BS sniper hit from farther away, hit smaller ships like inties or other tacklers harder, and make it so that they don't even have to devote lowslots to WCS so they can just pile on more tracking enhancers, etc.
I think that this is significantly effecting high-level game balance. Fleet combat is all about who can bring a few interdictors, a few coverts, some EW and craploads of sniping BS since virtually anything else is a waste in large numbers. In small combat, small groups can't do jack against a lone T2 laden T2 ammo sniping BS. He can just bounce from safe to safe to safe and come in whenever and wherever he pleases - especially if he has an alt covops to run around with him.
I don't know how to fix this problem, but I hope I'm not the only person *****ing about it.
so let me get this straight...you got ****** up by BSs and logged on here to post about how that needs to be fixed? 
|
Alexis DeTocqueville
|
Posted - 2006.03.19 02:13:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Alexis DeTocqueville on 19/03/2006 02:13:24
Originally by: Valkazm
anyone else crying .. ?
heard some crying and whining ... oh well *walk of*
God, you can't even troll properly.
|
j0sephine
|
Posted - 2006.03.19 02:16:00 -
[33]
"Instead of interdictors being the great counter to sniping BS, sniping BS now use interdictors to just lock down enemy fleets so they can snipe them even harder."
Given the radius of interdictor bubble is pretty big, as long as the snipers don't vary their 'entry points' that much, you might try to place in advance a cloaked interdictor or few near the likely spots ... then once the snipers warp in to snipe the 'regular' bait if they land close enough a 'dictor has fair chance to both trap them and act as warp beacon for your own force. It's hardly fireproof though and yes, the whole sniping thing is quite of issue...
|
j0sephine
|
Posted - 2006.03.19 02:19:00 -
[34]
"Also don't forget the lack of mobility of a sniper BS. Since they suck so much at close range engagements they can't easily get to another system."
Instas, cloak, covert op alt scout, stabs. What lack of mobility..?
|
fisty
|
Posted - 2006.03.19 02:50:00 -
[35]
dampners?
ciao |
Maya Rkell
|
Posted - 2006.03.19 02:53:00 -
[36]
Originally by: fuze
Bout 2 yrs ago there was a similar post about sniping BS because of sensor boosters and factional guns. People adapted to this new opportunity and learned to live with it.
Rinse and repeat.
Yes, because sniper fire from beyond the effective range of anything except another BS also with T2 guns (including, note, beyond ECM effective range) is an "opportunity". Yes, an opportunity to die without being able to respond if you don't have one of a VERY limited range of setups.
I'd suggest you stop rinseing in whatever vessel you're currently using.
Digital Communist> The Jin-Mei are probably more profficient in training for Tofu and Noodles than Spaceship Command |
Native
|
Posted - 2006.03.19 03:01:00 -
[37]
Originally by: fisty
dampners?
ever check the range on dampers
|
Avon
|
Posted - 2006.03.19 03:13:00 -
[38]
Er, scan resolution thingmy stat should effect not only targetting speed but targetting range.
It should be much harder for a BS to lock a frig at 200km than another BS.
Or something.
The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur |
gron alt
|
Posted - 2006.03.19 03:17:00 -
[39]
whats wrong with sniping?
i mean seriously? its a proper question. with 2years under my belt and 36mil sp char i still dont get the sniper hate?
usually we only snipe when we are out numbered and use close range when its even or in our favour.
if ur saying long range t2 ammo is overpowered. signed. it should do the same damage as the least powerfull ammo [usually a +60% range] but at the +100% range and have half tracking.
if your saying snipers have no risk you are again wrong, a single frig can kill a sniper BS if it gets in close and a single crusier does it with out trouble. ive got lots of sniper BS kills solo in a thorax.
snipers give up tank. lots of damage. ability to web/scram/ew.
|
Maya Rkell
|
Posted - 2006.03.19 03:18:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Maya Rkell on 19/03/2006 03:18:14
Avon, interesting idea. Not convinced tho...
You'd probably want to use a non-linear factor (^4?) for the modifier to locking time.
And what happens if the range changes during the lock?
In any case it's only a partial soloution.
Digital Communist> The Jin-Mei are probably more profficient in training for Tofu and Noodles than Spaceship Command |
Avon
|
Posted - 2006.03.19 03:20:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Maya Rkell
Edited by: Maya Rkell on 19/03/2006 03:18:14
Avon, interesting idea. Not convinced tho...
You'd probably want to use a non-linear factor (^4?) for the modifier to locking time.
And what happens if the range changes during the lock?
In any case it's only a partial soloution.
Well, I'll take a partial solution over no solution.
The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur |
gron alt
|
Posted - 2006.03.19 03:26:00 -
[42]
WTF stupid post
so far we have **** like "sniping is boring" and "sniping is lame"
for me mining is boring and lame,, lets neft thaT
get a clue and post your opions on WHY sniping is out of balance or unfair or overpowered as it is. not just omg im a nub and i cant kill a sniper BS at sniper ranges
|
Dark Shikari
|
Posted - 2006.03.19 03:27:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 19/03/2006 03:27:35
Originally by: Native
Originally by: fisty
dampners?
ever check the range on dampers
They work just fine at 150km... even if they only have 30% effectiveness, you don't need more than that to stop someone locking at the end of their lock range.
Dampeners sometimes seem to work too well at long ranges.
A single dampening scorp with good skills can make an entire sniping gang 100% useless 100% of the time.
[23] Member: Official Forum Warrior
What's with the blue robots? Click my sig.
|
gron alt
|
Posted - 2006.03.19 03:33:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 19/03/2006 03:27:35
Originally by: Native
Originally by: fisty
dampners?
ever check the range on dampers
They work just fine at 150km... even if they only have 30% effectiveness, you don't need more than that to stop someone locking at the end of their lock range.
Dampeners sometimes seem to work too well at long ranges.
A single dampening scorp with good skills can make an entire sniping gang 100% useless 100% of the time.
yep in my experience they work well upto 200km
you guys gotta remember average lock range of a BS is 200km with 2 sensor boosters and the further they are the less u damp them, but u dont need to damp them as much.
|
Amerame
|
Posted - 2006.03.19 03:33:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Maya Rkell
Edited by: Maya Rkell on 19/03/2006 03:18:14
Avon, interesting idea. Not convinced tho...
You'd probably want to use a non-linear factor (^4?) for the modifier to locking time.
And what happens if the range changes during the lock?
In any case it's only a partial soloution.
The solution that makes sense is that it should be more difficult to hit something at 200km than at 100km.
The accuracy depends on the size of the ship you're shooting at, it makes sense, though it's the absolute size, not the relative size, is it harder to hit a tennis ball that is moving at 5meters or at 500 meters with a riffle assuming it's speed is constant ? In eve it's easier to hit the ball that is at 500 meters, because it's easier to track something far away than close, and accuracy does not depend of range if you are below your optimal range. The efficiency of transversal speed decrease with range, which is fair, but the signature should change too.
Using the relative signature, i.e. the solid angle that a ship makes with you instead of the base signature regardless of the range would solve quite a few problem, like Blaster tracking (how can I miss a BS at point blank with my guns ??) sniping (gl hitting something with 0.5 signature radius).
|
gron alt
|
Posted - 2006.03.19 03:41:00 -
[46]
counters:
1; damps at up to 200km work very well
2: tracking desrupters at upto 100km work VERY WELL.
3: your own snipers
4: though tank, a sniper does a LOT less damage then a close range ship. a tanked raven can take a good beating from 5 snipers and sit there for a good amount of time
5: WARP BUBBLES to pull them away from the snipe spots
6: cloack
7: frigs [although ppl will tell u omg snipers hit cepters at 100km for full dmg, i can garantee you that they dont hit AT ALL if you have good trans on them.
8: get in close with low sig ships such as frigs
9: ECM upto 170km
10: a single frig with a mwd/2tracking desrupters/sensor boosters [mwd with good trans to 100km of the turret ships and uses the tacking desrupters. puts 2 BS out of the picture per frig,]
11. jump/warp/kill the thing scrambling you
or ofcourse there is option 12: write a forum thred and hope they nerf/boost something that doesnt need nering/boosting
|
Bombcrater
|
Posted - 2006.03.19 04:05:00 -
[47]
Remedial, sniping with battleships is just a tactic like any other. There are ways of reducing your vulnerability to it - but sitting on a gate with a huge swarm of frigates when you know there are enemy BSs in system isn't one of them.
Throw up multiple bubbles, disperse your fleet into groups, probe the BS's safespot if they're using one, or even call up your own BSs. You'll never be able to counter snipers 100%, but that's the price you pay for flying cheap, fast frigates.
(you may be sore about snipers, but I'm sore that my BS was about the only one in the small RAZOR fleet that was sniping at you last night that wasn't actually able to do any sniping  )
|
Mishima
|
Posted - 2006.03.19 04:59:00 -
[48]
lol, get a covert ops withint hem and orbit the bs's with your big-ass frig fleet man they wont be able to do anything but use drones
70frigs vs. 70drones...
I love x-mas :D |
Dr Smacktalk
|
Posted - 2006.03.19 05:17:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Remedial
Yeah except that's about 20 times harder than actually sniping, plus it's difficult to pull off on pre-aligned battleships with WCS and other fun mods. The point of a "counter" is not to be theoretically possible but realistically improbable - it's to provide a fairly simple solution to a similarly simple problem. Guy warps in at 200km with T2 guns and T2 ammo... but the suggested counter is some team effort involving cloaking recon cruisers and CovOps and your own anti-BS ships? That seems pretty complicated for a game that's all about balance.
Unfortunately your mind cannot grasp tactics beyond the meatshield method of 20-30 frigs warping and suicide ganking. balance is what you make it, if your limited skills in pvp and leadership prevent you from winning a battle, EVE should not balance out your shortcomings to make it easy for you.
|
Dr Smacktalk
|
Posted - 2006.03.19 05:23:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Kye Kenshin
200km sniping BS is pretty lame and boring when you really think about it.
100-140km is ok though.
Only problem is not much you can do about it
Maybe frig only 40km scramblers are needed.
Hint.
#1 Covert ops, get 15 KM to BS
#2 tell your fleet to align to an object that will get you 15KM in front of your point
#3 warp ontop, scramble, trackdisrupt,shoot.
#4 warp away, wash, rinse, repeat
|
Kyguard
|
Posted - 2006.03.19 06:27:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Kyguard on 19/03/2006 06:29:00
Originally by: d4ve
well, it was a fleet fight about a minute after the goons jumped in. and we had a disadvantage in bs numbers (not to mention total numbers). so yeah.... stop crying
I couldn't care less of your little fleet fight in Syndicate. This thread is about a counter to sniping. Please go back to the north where you think you're special. Kthnxbye.
Unfortunately, using a scorpion with a full rack dampeners is a counter to sniping that is only very effective against snipers. While I agree this is a good counter, I would wish there was something to stop this "Warp @ 150km, drop sphere, snipe whatever isn't in jump range" tactic that is used so often today.
I agree sniping is a valid tactic, but the invulnerability that comes with it is letting everyone snipe all day and night. It's ruining pvp
-|-
God is on the side with the best artillery.
I think he meant lasers.. |
Deja Thoris
|
Posted - 2006.03.19 06:50:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Kyguard
Some of you are by far the most ignorant people I have seen on these forums.
I agree with you Rem, sniping is lame when it is used in anything other than fleet fights. Sniping from 100km is fine tbh, but from 150-200km where you can't lock or hit without a complete sniper setup... needs to be fixed.
LOL at this coming from your alliance where one of your members sits 24/7 in a 0.0 system sniping frigates in a zealot.
Truly pathetic.
Oh, and goons brought these tactics on themselves. If you bring 55 people to engage 10 at a gate, don't complain when the minority change tactics and snipe you out of contention. There are a few viable but tough options to counter snipers.
|
The1
|
Posted - 2006.03.19 06:51:00 -
[53]
Edited by: The1 on 19/03/2006 06:51:51
You are wrong. This is a valid tactic and should remain so. Honestly, why the hell else whould there be large arty ammo that gives a 100% range bonus if not to do exactly this? There is such a massive anti BS sentiment in this game right now, its like being middle aged, straight, white male in America 
I honestly think some of you feel like a BS should have no usefullness vs a frig or frig fleet at all. Get a grip. This is not a balance issue. Balance is fine. Your skill and tactics are the problem. BTW, this is not a troll.....its a fact.
|
Legomanish
|
Posted - 2006.03.19 07:13:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Lord Noodle
Translation of Remedials post:
Hi, we want to zerg lone people with our 300 man noob fleet in Herons and Condors. Please don't use anti-blob tactics against us, no fair! 
hey we fly Rifters too
|
Hllaxiu
|
Posted - 2006.03.19 07:31:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Dr Smacktalk
#1 Covert ops, get 15 KM to BS
How do you get a covert ops ship within 15km of a 200+km sniper before they warp out and then warp back in to a completely different spot? My alt with a cheetah can get up to around 700m/s under cloak - that means about 5 minutes to travel 220klicks. A good sniper will have many such spots, none of which will be in line with any celestial object.
Its just like using scan probes - you only catch the newbs.
This is not to say that theres anything wrong with sniping. My only problem is that EWar can't hit anyone at 200km+ reliably.
---
Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson |
Kyguard
|
Posted - 2006.03.19 07:39:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Deja Thoris
Originally by: Kyguard
...Sniping from 100km is fine tbh..
LOL at this coming from your alliance where one of your members sits 24/7 in a 0.0 system sniping frigates in a zealot.
I've reduced my quote so that you can easily read it, but let me reword just in case.
Zealot can snipe from 100km.
Truly pathetic that you try to attack me and my alliance without regarding the facts or even what I said.
This isn't about Goonfleet or Goonwaffe, its about discussing counters to 150-200km sniping.
-|-
God is on the side with the best artillery.
I think he meant lasers.. |
Deja Thoris
|
Posted - 2006.03.19 07:46:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Kyguard
Originally by: Deja Thoris
Originally by: Kyguard
...Sniping from 100km is fine tbh..
LOL at this coming from your alliance where one of your members sits 24/7 in a 0.0 system sniping frigates in a zealot.
I've reduced my quote so that you can easily read it, but let me reword just in case.
Zealot can snipe from 100km.
Truly pathetic that you try to attack me and my alliance without regarding the facts or even what I said.
This isn't about Goonfleet or Goonwaffe, its about discussing counters to 150-200km sniping.
Ah. Check.
Sniping from 150km = lame
Sniping from +-110km = fine.
That makes a lot of sense (not).
|
Siigari Kitawa
|
Posted - 2006.03.19 08:35:00 -
[58]
To all the people replying in this thread: GET A LIFE AND HELP THE OP. HE ASKED A VALID QUESTION, GIVE HIM A HELPFUL ANSWER.
To the OP: Well, that really is a pickle. I'd say the best approach to a sniping BS gang is to get your own sniping BS gang. Once you show up with a relatively motley counter, they'll go away. Or better yet - if you have some time on your hands - swarm the gates with massive numbers of frigates out-of-system and scramble the hell out of them once they try to run away. Sure it'll take some time, but it'd be a great chance to show your resolve and put their money where their t2 long range ammo (that can't hit the egg of a ship at 15km on the other side of a gate) where their mouth is.
_________
|
Lo3d3R
|
Posted - 2006.03.19 08:46:00 -
[59]
Edited by: Lo3d3R on 19/03/2006 08:51:36
there are tons of ways to kill a sniper gang... ( I instruct for 100 mill an hour ), much easier then a gang of versatile ships, i do not see a problem within the game mechanics but a lack creativity.
also i see there are "lets whine, so that the devs kill sniping people, because the evil players killed my badger and im to lazy to use the tons of counter measures you can take" around here, i dont like you.
0/
Carebear Destruction - Rank (13) - Level 5 -
|
d4ve
|
Posted - 2006.03.19 09:24:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Kyguard
Edited by: Kyguard on 19/03/2006 06:29:00
Originally by: d4ve
well, it was a fleet fight about a minute after the goons jumped in. and we had a disadvantage in bs numbers (not to mention total numbers). so yeah.... stop crying
I couldn't care less of your little fleet fight in Syndicate. This thread is about a counter to sniping. Please go back to the north where you think you're special. Kthnxbye.
meh.. why couldnt you reply to this thread without flaming me? we were up north, the fight took place in q-cab2 a couple of jumps out from d7-zac and we pretty much did exactly what he described to them, except that we werent as far out as 150-200km to begin with at least.
he also did fail to mention a few other facts about that particular situation and that's why i thought that i'd fill you in on it.
the fact that this thread was created immidiately after the engagement where they had lost alot of his precious frigs to our gang gave me the impression that this thread not at all was about countering the sniping tactic, but that it was about something much more personal. maybe they dont like to play the designated suicide frigsquad for the 5.
but lets not get into that, this thread has evolved since then and this post from Amerame has some very good points:
Originally by: "Amerame"
The solution that makes sense is that it should be more difficult to hit something at 200km than at 100km.
The accuracy depends on the size of the ship you're shooting at, it makes sense, though it's the absolute size, not the relative size, is it harder to hit a tennis ball that is moving at 5meters or at 500 meters with a riffle assuming it's speed is constant ? In eve it's easier to hit the ball that is at 500 meters, because it's easier to track something far away than close, and accuracy does not depend of range if you are below your optimal range. The efficiency of transversal speed decrease with range, which is fair, but the signature should change too.
Using the relative signature, i.e. the solid angle that a ship makes with you instead of the base signature regardless of the range would solve quite a few problem, like Blaster tracking (how can I miss a BS at point blank with my guns ??) sniping (gl hitting something with 0.5 signature radius).
--
|
| |
|
| Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 .. 18 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |