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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
8898
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Posted - 2014.01.16 13:00:00 -
[1] - Quote
Quick announcement to start what will be a busy day. At the moment, all drones have the same shieldRechargeRate stat. All the way from Acolytes to Mantis'.
This was not an intended pattern and since the balance effects of fighter bombers sporting battlecruiser level passive tanks (mainly resistance to smartbombs and non-coordinated bombs) are negative we're going ahead and giving each size of drone a different shield recharge time just as we do with ships. Like with ships, the larger drones get better hp/s but the difference will now be much smaller. Light and medium drones are getting buffed, heavies staying the same, sentries through to fighter bombers nerfed.
This stat affects the time it takes the shields to regenerate passively from 0 to full. Lower is better.
At the moment every drone has a recharge time of 250s, post patch it will be:
Light - 125s Medium - 200s Heavy - 250s Sentry - 400s Fighter - 500s Fighter Bomber - 750s
This change will be on SISI for your testing shortly. Game Designer | Team Five-0 https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/ |
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Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
1198
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 13:04:00 -
[2] - Quote
1st! Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee" Undocking - More Routes Out of Station Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up! |
Turelus
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve The Fourth District
821
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 13:06:00 -
[3] - Quote
Not bad, goes a little towards fixing the the NPC Agro on Light Drones issue. Lieutenant Turelus
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
The Fourth District |
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
2116
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 13:07:00 -
[4] - Quote
My Astero and 'Augmented' Hobgoblins thank you very much. Novis Initiis is Recruting-į --į Ideas for Drone Improvement |
Weasel Leblanc
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
28
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Posted - 2014.01.16 13:09:00 -
[5] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Quick announcement to start what will be a busy day. At the moment, all drones have the same shieldRechargeRate stat. All the way from Acolytes to Mantis'.
This was not an intended pattern and since the balance effects of fighter bombers sporting battlecruiser level passive tanks (mainly resistance to smartbombs and non-coordinated bombs) are negative we're going ahead and giving each size of drone a different shield recharge time just as we do with ships. Like with ships, the larger drones get better hp/s but the difference will now be much smaller. Light and medium drones are getting buffed, heavies staying the same, sentries through to fighter bombers nerfed.
This stat affects the time it takes the shields to regenerate passively from 0 to full. Lower is better.
At the moment every drone has a recharge time of 250s, post patch it will be:
Light - 125s Medium - 200s Heavy - 250s Sentry - 400s Fighter - 500s Fighter Bomber - 750s
This change will be on SISI for your testing shortly. We both know my sentries needed to have lower shield regen, for balance's sake... but I still don't like it because I'm a provincial little git.
Please continute, even though I'm going to gripe endlessly about how my Wardens can't tank the easier level 4s for me any more. |
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
2116
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 13:09:00 -
[6] - Quote
Just put of curiosity, what are your thoughts on increasing heavy drone optimal range to allow them to engage before 2 Km making them useful beyond point blank range? Novis Initiis is Recruting-į --į Ideas for Drone Improvement |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
8901
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 13:16:00 -
[7] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:Just put of curiosity, what are your thoughts on increasing heavy drone optimal range to allow them to engage before 2 Km making them useful beyond point blank range?
There's a lot more work we want to do to heavy drones, it's likely that both optimal and MWD speed will be high on the list of stats to look at when we do that pass. Game Designer | Team Five-0 https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/ |
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Kendarr
Zebra Corp Gentlemen's Agreement
37
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Posted - 2014.01.16 13:34:00 -
[8] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Omnathious Deninard wrote:Just put of curiosity, what are your thoughts on increasing heavy drone optimal range to allow them to engage before 2 Km making them useful beyond point blank range? There's a lot more work we want to do to heavy drones, it's likely that both optimal and MWD speed will be high on the list of stats to look at when we do that pass.
I like =) http://crossingzebras.com/ |
Swiftstrike1
Interfector INC. Fade 2 Black
431
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 13:43:00 -
[9] - Quote
Any chance of a drone UI overhaul in the next year? Drone balancing is great and all, but I for one would prefer a nicer UI. Fleet Bookmarks New Gravimetric Sites Med Clones 2.0 |
WarFireV
Blackwater USA Inc. Pandemic Legion
171
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 13:44:00 -
[10] - Quote
Fighter and Fighter Bombers don't really need anymore nerfing. |
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Lulu Ormand
DarkStorm. Aureus Alae
0
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 13:50:00 -
[11] - Quote
Cant say I like this changes...I love sentrys =/
But now that you are checking the drones, may I ask what happened with that idea of making the sentry drones moveable? Heard some time ago about this, but since then nothing. Is this something on the CCP-¦s list? |
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
1199
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 13:54:00 -
[12] - Quote
Lulu Ormand wrote:Cant say I like this changes...I love sentrys =/
But now that you are checking the drones, may I ask what happened with that idea of making the sentry drones moveable? Heard some time ago about this, but since then nothing. Is this something on the CCP-¦s list?
sen-+try (sntr) 1. A guard, especially a soldier posted at a given spot to prevent the passage of unauthorized persons.
I hope they don't make them movable as they wouldn't be a sentry then. Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee" Undocking - More Routes Out of Station Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up! |
butters1
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2014.01.16 13:54:00 -
[13] - Quote
WarFireV wrote:Fighter and Fighter Bombers don't really need anymore nerfing. agreed. |
Akrasjel Lanate
Naquatech Conglomerate Naquatech Syndicate
1444
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 13:55:00 -
[14] - Quote
Looks good |
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
2116
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 13:57:00 -
[15] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Omnathious Deninard wrote:Just put of curiosity, what are your thoughts on increasing heavy drone optimal range to allow them to engage before 2 Km making them useful beyond point blank range? There's a lot more work we want to do to heavy drones, it's likely that both optimal and MWD speed will be high on the list of stats to look at when we do that pass. I suppose early theory crafting will all boil down to a single point, what "size" are heavy drones supposed to be. Are they a cruiser size weapon or a battleship size weapon? Novis Initiis is Recruting-į --į Ideas for Drone Improvement |
WarFireV
Blackwater USA Inc. Pandemic Legion
171
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 14:10:00 -
[16] - Quote
Drones are drone sized weapons, stop trying to put them as something else. |
Pseudo Ucksth
B0rthole
162
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 14:10:00 -
[17] - Quote
So are supers going to be getting a battleship tier universal drone bay to compensate for this castration? Not asking for much, like 3-500m3 |
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc Brave Collective
837
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 14:15:00 -
[18] - Quote
Sounds like a good, albeit minimal, change to me. Faster recharge rate for tiny shields, longer for larger shields... And I hope you were not counting on the passive tank of your fighter/bombers to tank anyway, otherwise this can explain why you were loosing them so fast :p G££ <= Me |
Mind Rape
Relentless Influence
10
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 14:17:00 -
[19] - Quote
well, i guess you gotta try to silence the legions of goons crying about drones somehow, gg ccp |
Pseudo Ucksth
B0rthole
163
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 14:25:00 -
[20] - Quote
Altrue wrote:Sounds like a good, albeit minimal, change to me. Faster recharge rate for tiny shields, longer for larger shields... And I hope you were not counting on the passive tank of your fighter/bombers to tank anyway, otherwise this can explain why you were loosing them so fast :p
Anyone who thinks of drones as anything but ammo for the ships that use them is thinking too hard. |
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Mag's
the united SCUM.
16490
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 14:25:00 -
[21] - Quote
Although I quite like the change, I would like to ask the following. Is there any chance of say a module that you can fit to your ship, that will reduce or use the same repair time?
(Clarification: I'm talking about one that repairs drones in your hold, as am fully aware of remote shield reppers.)
Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
Phoenus
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
130
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Posted - 2014.01.16 14:26:00 -
[22] - Quote
butters1 wrote:WarFireV wrote:Fighter and Fighter Bombers don't really need anymore nerfing. agreed.
This. It's not like Fighters/Fighterbombers don't already die the instant anybody sneezes in a fight. |
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
2116
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 14:37:00 -
[23] - Quote
Mag's wrote:Although I quite like the change, I would like to ask the following. Is there any chance of say a module that you can fit to your ship, that will reduce or use the same repair time?
(Clarification: I'm talking about one that repairs drones in your hold, as am fully aware of remote shield reppers.) There is drone durability enhancer rigs. +20 to drone hp, but for a penalty to CPU. Novis Initiis is Recruting-į --į Ideas for Drone Improvement |
Grarr Dexx
Snuff Box
306
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 14:40:00 -
[24] - Quote
lol pee el crying about fb nerfs |
Tumbles Goodness
Conquering Darkness
1
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 14:42:00 -
[25] - Quote
A module for in-bay repairing could be of interest, but then again, it could also be a case of launching drones and repping them. I don't like the idea of sentries being made more fragile though, if I read that right, but then again, they do work beautifully in plexes and missions and last for a long time, if mindfully tended to. |
47Magnum
Hoover Inc. Black Legion.
45
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Posted - 2014.01.16 14:42:00 -
[26] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:Mag's wrote:Although I quite like the change, I would like to ask the following. Is there any chance of say a module that you can fit to your ship, that will reduce or use the same repair time?
(Clarification: I'm talking about one that repairs drones in your hold, as am fully aware of remote shield reppers.) There is drone durability enhancer rigs. +20 to drone hp, but for a penalty to CPU.
Goodbye T2 Trimarks, Hello Drone Durability Rigs! |
Mag's
the united SCUM.
16492
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 14:46:00 -
[27] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:Mag's wrote:Although I quite like the change, I would like to ask the following. Is there any chance of say a module that you can fit to your ship, that will reduce or use the same repair time?
(Clarification: I'm talking about one that repairs drones in your hold, as am fully aware of remote shield reppers.) There is drone durability enhancer rigs. +20 to drone hp, but for a penalty to CPU. Not sure I'd use them tbh, but I would be willing to use a slot for repping in the hold. Even if it was at a reduced rate.
Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
waferzankko
Blackwater USA Inc. Pandemic Legion
33
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 14:50:00 -
[28] - Quote
not bad really, i was expecting something like carrier drone bay moved down from from alot to 400m3 or something. |
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
1676
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 14:54:00 -
[29] - Quote
WarFireV wrote:Fighter and Fighter Bombers don't really need anymore nerfing.
Ccp needs alpha fleet to be a success There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
Dorn Val
Probe Patrol Polarized.
155
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 15:11:00 -
[30] - Quote
Looks good!
Slightly on topic: Could you change Sentry Drone mechanics so that they can be recalled from range? Sandbox: An enclosed area filled with sand for children engaged in open-ended, unstructured, imaginative play. Also a place for cats to urinate and defecate... |
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Xolve
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
2328
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 15:18:00 -
[31] - Quote
Could probably just delete fighters altogether at this point.
Not like anyone would really notice anyway.
Grarr Dexx wrote:lol pee el crying about fb nerfs
We're collectively writing letters to Internal Affairs about it, so we can be just as mad as you were about that 'Kings of Lowsec' competition you lost. |
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
2117
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 15:21:00 -
[32] - Quote
Xolve wrote:Could probably just delete fighters altogether at this point. Not like anyone would really notice anyway. Grarr Dexx wrote:lol pee el crying about fb nerfs We're collectively writing letters to Internal Affairs about it, so we can be just as mad as you were about that 'Kings of Lowsec' competition you lost. Fighters need to gain the benefits of drone skills and mods, minus of course drone interfacing. Novis Initiis is Recruting-į --į Ideas for Drone Improvement |
Buhhdust Princess
Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships.
7815
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 15:42:00 -
[33] - Quote
Seems silly for fighter bombers to go up 250s from fighters. There isn't THAT much difference between the actual size of the drones so surely it should only be about 100s more?
Good idea overall though |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
8931
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 15:46:00 -
[34] - Quote
Buhhdust Princess wrote:Seems silly for fighter bombers to go up 250s from fighters. There isn't THAT much difference between the actual size of the drones so surely it should only be about 100s more?
Good idea overall though
It's connected to the HP differences between the drones, rather than their physical size. Game Designer | Team Five-0 https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/ |
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Manfred Sideous
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
341
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 15:55:00 -
[35] - Quote
Fozzie nerfing fighterbombers without a bomber nerf makes this change to drones is pre-mature. I mean you have ISBoxers everywhere with 1 single person clearing waves and waves of Fighterbombers. With the fits you can use ( Stabs + Agility etc) Normal bombers are damn near impossible to stop and ISboxers even harder. This change seems ill conceived till overarching problems are dealt with. Almost everyone in Nullsec ( only place you can use bombs) agree they are currently broken and in need of balancing. |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
486
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 16:04:00 -
[36] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Omnathious Deninard wrote:Just put of curiosity, what are your thoughts on increasing heavy drone optimal range to allow them to engage before 2 Km making them useful beyond point blank range? There's a lot more work we want to do to heavy drones, it's likely that both optimal and MWD speed will be high on the list of stats to look at when we do that pass.
Double damage bonus mediums on cruisers please. And the other 100 things you need to do to fix drones. |
Combat Wombatz
Martyr's Vengence Nulli Secunda
6
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 16:06:00 -
[37] - Quote
Overall, I am good with this change, but Fighters (not fighter bombers) need to be left out of it. Currently, their survivability is the only thing that they have going for them, and they have needed a buff for a while now anyway. To make them less survivable is to take away the only advantage that they currently have to sentries. |
Tyrant Scorn
10
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 16:06:00 -
[38] - Quote
How come these blogs don't show up on the Dev Blogs pages ? My video blog called "Legacy Of A Tyrant" can be found-įat: [url]http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCcC_wessMuXVxLmgqXZLaEQ[/url] |
Reapyr
Valar Morghulis. Goonswarm Federation
2
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Posted - 2014.01.16 16:10:00 -
[39] - Quote
FB builders everywhere rejoice. |
Phoenix Jones
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
395
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 16:11:00 -
[40] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Omnathious Deninard wrote:Just put of curiosity, what are your thoughts on increasing heavy drone optimal range to allow them to engage before 2 Km making them useful beyond point blank range? There's a lot more work we want to do to heavy drones, it's likely that both optimal and MWD speed will be high on the list of stats to look at when we do that pass.
Actually I think its bandwidth that needs to be looked at in regards to heavy drones. Someone did an analysis regarding heavy drones and determined that they were the equivalent to Medium guns, and sentry drones were the equivalent to battleship weapons.
Oddly enough since there is the new progression from frigate, destroyer, cruiser battlecruiser, battleship. I'm suprised that drones haven't been adjusted to accommodate that scaling.
Frigate (light), Destroyer (light/medium), Cruiser (medium), battlecruiser (Heavy), Battleship (Heavy/Sentry)
Bandwidth can be adjusted down on heavy drones from being 25 to 20 (so ships that have 100 bandwidth can launch 5 heavies, but only 4 sentries). 3 ships would have to be reviewed regarding there current bandwidth though (ishtar, Navy Vexor, Eos).
Different topic to a degree though.
Stabbers are totally broken
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=15116553
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MailDeadDrop
Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities
237
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 16:14:00 -
[41] - Quote
Tyrant Scorn wrote:How come these blogs don't show up on the Dev Blogs pages ? Technically this is a "thread" and not a blog (which should answer why they aren't on the "Dev Blogs" page). If you meant to ask "why isn't this information being communicated in a dev blog?", well, I suppose that's a question only Fozzie can answer...
MDD |
iskflakes
869
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 16:15:00 -
[42] - Quote
Phoenus wrote:butters1 wrote:WarFireV wrote:Fighter and Fighter Bombers don't really need anymore nerfing. agreed. This. It's not like Fighters/Fighterbombers don't already die the instant anybody sneezes in a fight.
These people are all correct.
Fighter bombers die to bombs far too easily right now, it only takes a few people to wipe them all out, and we have no replacements.
Please consider making them more vulnerable to direct fire from a human player and less vulnerable to bombs (or give us spares). The current situation limits their effectiveness considerably. - |
Beth Blackstar
Totaly Insane Elite Rank 5
0
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 16:17:00 -
[43] - Quote
Phoenus wrote:butters1 wrote:WarFireV wrote:Fighter and Fighter Bombers don't really need anymore nerfing. agreed. This. It's not like Fighters/Fighterbombers don't already die the instant anybody sneezes in a fight. They don't need a nerf, agreed. Tehy're the only capital weapons system that anyone uses, and they're already incredibly vulnerable to subcapitals, bombers, smartbombs, and their own glitchy mechanics that cause them to abandon randomly throughout space.
Also, you claimed that they don't need as good a tank as a battlecruiser. A Fighterbomber costs half as much as a battlecruiser does, and are the only form of DPS a supercarrier possesses - why shouldn't they be a bit tanky? They're dumber than a battlecruiser, less flexible than a battlecruiser, less repairable due to their inability to imporove their resistances. I understand the desire for some difference across drone sizes, fozzie, but an arbitrary nerf that fails toa ccount for the realities of supercarrier ownership and combat use is yet another nerf to capital combat - why shouldn't the biggest drones in the game be meaningfully durable, instead of easily killable by a T1 or T2 frigate? |
Manfred Sideous
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
341
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 16:18:00 -
[44] - Quote
iskflakes wrote:Phoenus wrote:butters1 wrote:WarFireV wrote:Fighter and Fighter Bombers don't really need anymore nerfing. agreed. This. It's not like Fighters/Fighterbombers don't already die the instant anybody sneezes in a fight. These people are all correct. Fighter bombers die to bombs far too easily right now, it only takes a few people to wipe them all out, and we have no replacements. Please consider making them more vulnerable to direct fire from a human player and less vulnerable to bombs (or give us spares). The current situation limits their effectiveness considerably.
Fozzie look lots of people all saying the same thing. Hmmmmmm
Suggestion: Fighters and Fighterbombers more resistant to AOE dmg and less resistant to targeted dmg. |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6094
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 16:23:00 -
[45] - Quote
Manfred Sideous wrote: Fozzie look lots of people all saying the same thing. Hmmmmmm
"look, all the supercapital owners who had been benefiting from broken mechanics are all saying don't fix them"
"bring back aoe dds and untacklable titans" "I can hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
iskflakes
869
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 16:25:00 -
[46] - Quote
Manfred Sideous wrote:
Fozzie look lots of people all saying the same thing. Hmmmmmm
I think the problem is our ticker isn't CONDI, so we don't matter. - |
Vahl Ahashion
Risk Breakers Fidelas Constans
6
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 16:27:00 -
[47] - Quote
Good changes, can Fozzie please just run EVE development. |
Andy Koraka
PonyWaffe Insidious Empire
24
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Posted - 2014.01.16 16:44:00 -
[48] - Quote
The change "makes sense" from a certain point of view but in terms of improving gameplay this makes a pair of weak weapon systems even worse.
As it is Fighters have no niche beyond a POS carrier assigning fighters to ratting subcaps, this makes them less capable of tanking even frigate sized DPS.
Fighter bombers on the other hand have some utility grinding structures but as soon as they enter a combat situation they get smart-bombed to death. Since every Dominix, (the pvp subcap of choice since Odyssey) fits a smartbomb, and every Carrier keeps a rack of them ready to refit it doesn't make sense to make them even less resistant to random smartbombs. |
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
632
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 17:05:00 -
[49] - Quote
now they just need to be given meaningful shield HP ..... most drones are only have decent structure and armour HP.. Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic. Nerf web strength ..... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
1943
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 17:10:00 -
[50] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Quick announcement to start what will be a busy day. At the moment, all drones have the same shieldRechargeRate stat. All the way from Acolytes to Mantis'.
This was not an intended pattern and since the balance effects of fighter bombers sporting battlecruiser level passive tanks (mainly resistance to smartbombs and non-coordinated bombs) are negative we're going ahead and giving each size of drone a different shield recharge time just as we do with ships. Like with ships, the larger drones get better hp/s but the difference will now be much smaller. Light and medium drones are getting buffed, heavies staying the same, sentries through to fighter bombers nerfed.
This stat affects the time it takes the shields to regenerate passively from 0 to full. Lower is better.
At the moment every drone has a recharge time of 250s, post patch it will be:
Light - 125s Medium - 200s Heavy - 250s Sentry - 400s Fighter - 500s Fighter Bomber - 750s
This change will be on SISI for your testing shortly.
Man, you are some piece of work. First, you trash using heavy drones in PvE situations since they are auto-aggroed with the idiotic changes to the PvE AI. Now, you trash my Sentries' range and tanking capabilities.
Do you really hate the PvE subscription base that much? Most people viewed Orwell's writings as a warning. The harper regime and the goons treat them as a guidebook. |
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Hinkledolph
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
12
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Posted - 2014.01.16 17:25:00 -
[51] - Quote
Raivi lost a friend :( |
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
2330
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 17:28:00 -
[52] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Do you really hate the PvE subscription base that much?
He does.
You, specifically.
Watch out, Dinsdale. He's creeping up behind you. Rifterlings pirate corporation is now recruitng members for lowsec PvP operations. Newbie friendly, free T1 frigate and dessy hangar, solo tutoring and PvP classes for new members. Join our in game channel 'weflyrifters' and speak to a recruiter today. |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
2877
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 17:33:00 -
[53] - Quote
Domanique Altares wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Do you really hate the PvE subscription base that much?
He does. You, specifically. Watch out, Dinsdale. He's creeping up behind you. Now don't be mean. Everyone knows Fozzie is actually just setting up an OP T1 destroyer gate camp to ruin as many PvEers days as he can. Well, everyone but Dinsdale. It's all a big in-joke. Rifterlings - small gang frigate PvP - lowsec pirate operation, newbie-friendly, free ship program; Join today! www.rifterlings.com
Accidentally The Whole Frigate (blog) - Learning how to pew pew, one loss at a time - www.thewholefrigate.com |
Bryperium
RAZOR Alliance
15
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Posted - 2014.01.16 17:36:00 -
[54] - Quote
iskflakes wrote:Phoenus wrote:butters1 wrote:WarFireV wrote:Fighter and Fighter Bombers don't really need anymore nerfing. agreed. This. It's not like Fighters/Fighterbombers don't already die the instant anybody sneezes in a fight. These people are all correct. Fighter bombers die to bombs far too easily right now, it only takes a few people to wipe them all out, and we have no replacements. Please consider making them more vulnerable to direct fire from a human player and less vulnerable to bombs (or give us spares). The current situation limits their effectiveness considerably.
+1 - |
Xolve
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
2331
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 17:43:00 -
[55] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:"look, all the supercapital owners who had been benefiting from broken mechanics are all saying don't fix them"
"bring back aoe dds and untacklable titans"
I can do this too : "look at all the people afraid to use supercapitals talk about how broken they are". |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
176
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 17:46:00 -
[56] - Quote
Xolve wrote:Weaselior wrote:"look, all the supercapital owners who had been benefiting from broken mechanics are all saying don't fix them"
"bring back aoe dds and untacklable titans" I can do this too : "look at all the people afraid to use supercapitals talk about how broken they are". I mean, there's really not much expertise required here to realize that drones with larger shield capacities having the same shield regen that ones with smaller capacities do is out of line and needs to be adjusted. If you think that fighterbomber EHP is unacceptable, argue so, but don't take someone noticing an improperly copy-pasted value in the static data and going "oh that is not right" and fixing it as some sort of treatise against the Fighterbomber. It's just not that sort of action. This post was crafted by a member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. |
Slappy Andven
Proletariat Projects Inc SoulWing Alliance
20
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 18:09:00 -
[57] - Quote
So, rather than making them completely useless, why not just remove them? That would do less damage than this. This just made the already questionable FB worse than useless.
---į Slappy Andven CEO Proletariat Projects, Inc. Executor, SoulWing Alliance |
Hatsumi Kobayashi
Origin. Black Legion.
402
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 18:18:00 -
[58] - Quote
Besides the consistency issues, is hitting Fighters and Fighter Bombers really called for right now? It's not like they're problematic at all. No sig. |
olan2005
Twisted Insanity. The Kadeshi
13
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 18:41:00 -
[59] - Quote
Just curios does anyone else perceive this as a super capital Nerf to assist the goons in their current war. IS CCP colluding with goons to hand them null sec . Did the goon tears drive you to this |
Xolve
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
2332
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 18:45:00 -
[60] - Quote
olan2005 wrote:Just curios does anyone else perceive this as a super capital Nerf to assist the goons in their current war. IS CCP colluding with goons to hand them null sec . Did the goon tears drive you to this
I think CCP is going out of their way to push everyone that dwells in any sort of "Sov-based Nullsec" to win at EVE, one step at a time.
While sure, the shield recharge rates are seemingly out of place, but this seems like something that could have been addressed in a sweeping rebalance and not another incremental band aide fix. |
|
Hatsumi Kobayashi
Origin. Black Legion.
405
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 18:47:00 -
[61] - Quote
olan2005 wrote:Just curios does anyone else perceive this as a super capital Nerf to assist the goons in their current war. IS CCP colluding with goons to hand them null sec . Did the goon tears drive you to this
tinfoil is not healthy when smoked, get your habit checked No sig. |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6115
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 18:51:00 -
[62] - Quote
olan2005 wrote:Just curios does anyone else perceive this as a super capital Nerf to assist the goons in their current war. IS CCP colluding with goons to hand them null sec . Did the goon tears drive you to this Is Kadeshi even allowed to use supercaps anymore after that little oops a week or so ago? "I can hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Sara Navorski
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
4
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 19:03:00 -
[63] - Quote
Maximus Aerelius wrote:Lulu Ormand wrote:Cant say I like this changes...I love sentrys =/
But now that you are checking the drones, may I ask what happened with that idea of making the sentry drones moveable? Heard some time ago about this, but since then nothing. Is this something on the CCP-¦s list? sen-+try (sntr) 1. A guard, especially a soldier posted at a given spot to prevent the passage of unauthorized persons. I hope they don't make them movable as they wouldn't be a sentry then.
Sentries generally patrol.
|
Xe'Cara'eos
A Big Enough Lever
62
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 19:07:00 -
[64] - Quote
Maximus Aerelius wrote:Lulu Ormand wrote:Cant say I like this changes...I love sentrys =/
But now that you are checking the drones, may I ask what happened with that idea of making the sentry drones moveable? Heard some time ago about this, but since then nothing. Is this something on the CCP-¦s list? sen-+try (sntr) 1. A guard, especially a soldier posted at a given spot to prevent the passage of unauthorized persons. I hope they don't make them movable as they wouldn't be a sentry then.
I'd like them to have a low speed, say 500 m/s at MWD, can't move when shooting, and can only move to return to the vessel, very irritating to have to manually go back and pick them up..... |
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
2120
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 20:15:00 -
[65] - Quote
Xe'Cara'eos wrote:Maximus Aerelius wrote:Lulu Ormand wrote:Cant say I like this changes...I love sentrys =/
But now that you are checking the drones, may I ask what happened with that idea of making the sentry drones moveable? Heard some time ago about this, but since then nothing. Is this something on the CCP-¦s list? sen-+try (sntr) 1. A guard, especially a soldier posted at a given spot to prevent the passage of unauthorized persons. I hope they don't make them movable as they wouldn't be a sentry then. I'd like them to have a low speed, say 500 m/s at MWD, can't move when shooting, and can only move to return to the vessel, very irritating to have to manually go back and pick them up..... Sounds like you want heavy drones. Novis Initiis is Recruting-į --į Ideas for Drone Improvement |
Joyce Antura
YC 112 Brothers of Tangra
11
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 20:29:00 -
[66] - Quote
because supers need to be nerfed more, typical CCP |
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
629
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 20:36:00 -
[67] - Quote
Good change. Remove insurance. |
Xe'Cara'eos
A Big Enough Lever
62
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 20:43:00 -
[68] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:Xe'Cara'eos wrote:Maximus Aerelius wrote:Lulu Ormand wrote:Cant say I like this changes...I love sentrys =/
But now that you are checking the drones, may I ask what happened with that idea of making the sentry drones moveable? Heard some time ago about this, but since then nothing. Is this something on the CCP-¦s list? sen-+try (sntr) 1. A guard, especially a soldier posted at a given spot to prevent the passage of unauthorized persons. I hope they don't make them movable as they wouldn't be a sentry then. I'd like them to have a low speed, say 500 m/s at MWD, can't move when shooting, and can only move to return to the vessel, very irritating to have to manually go back and pick them up..... Sounds like you want heavy drones.
what I want is either heavies that sit and shoot at long range, or sentries that can make their own way back to me..... you decide which is easier to say..... |
Xe'Cara'eos
A Big Enough Lever
62
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 20:44:00 -
[69] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Quick announcement to start what will be a busy day. At the moment, all drones have the same shieldRechargeRate stat. All the way from Acolytes to Mantis'.
This was not an intended pattern and since the balance effects of fighter bombers sporting battlecruiser level passive tanks (mainly resistance to smartbombs and non-coordinated bombs) are negative we're going ahead and giving each size of drone a different shield recharge time just as we do with ships. Like with ships, the larger drones get better hp/s but the difference will now be much smaller. Light and medium drones are getting buffed, heavies staying the same, sentries through to fighter bombers nerfed.
This stat affects the time it takes the shields to regenerate passively from 0 to full. Lower is better.
At the moment every drone has a recharge time of 250s, post patch it will be:
Light - 125s Medium - 200s Heavy - 250s Sentry - 400s Fighter - 500s Fighter Bomber - 750s
This change will be on SISI for your testing shortly.
presuming these are T1 values - what about T2 heavies through sentries? |
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
2121
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 20:45:00 -
[70] - Quote
Xe'Cara'eos wrote:Omnathious Deninard wrote: Sounds like you want heavy drones.
what I want is either heavies that sit and shoot at long range, or sentries that can make their own way back to me..... you decide which is easier to say.....
CCP Fozzie wrote:Omnathious Deninard wrote:Just put of curiosity, what are your thoughts on increasing heavy drone optimal range to allow them to engage before 2 Km making them useful beyond point blank range? There's a lot more work we want to do to heavy drones, it's likely that both optimal and MWD speed will be high on the list of stats to look at when we do that pass.
Novis Initiis is Recruting-į --į Ideas for Drone Improvement |
|
MukkBarovian
Blackwater USA Inc. Pandemic Legion
11
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 21:18:00 -
[71] - Quote
Nobody uses Heavy Drones in PVP outside of small gangs because they have to fly into smartbomb range to do their thing. When fleet size reaches about 20, everyone can fit a smartbomb in a utility high and just blow them away by cycling the things once. |
GetSirrus
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
80
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 21:56:00 -
[72] - Quote
Xe'Cara'eos wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Quick announcement to start what will be a busy day. At the moment, all drones have the same shieldRechargeRate stat. All the way from Acolytes to Mantis'.
This was not an intended pattern and since the balance effects of fighter bombers sporting battlecruiser level passive tanks (mainly resistance to smartbombs and non-coordinated bombs) are negative we're going ahead and giving each size of drone a different shield recharge time just as we do with ships. Like with ships, the larger drones get better hp/s but the difference will now be much smaller. Light and medium drones are getting buffed, heavies staying the same, sentries through to fighter bombers nerfed.
This stat affects the time it takes the shields to regenerate passively from 0 to full. Lower is better.
At the moment every drone has a recharge time of 250s, post patch it will be:
Light - 125s Medium - 200s Heavy - 250s Sentry - 400s Fighter - 500s Fighter Bomber - 750s
This change will be on SISI for your testing shortly. presuming these are T1 values - what about T2 heavies through sentries?
will faction and T2 have superior regen?
and Fozzie, since you are messing with drones when will the damage multiple between amarr and minmatar drones be correctly sorted compared to the order of their base speeds?
|
Dragonzchilde
BURN EDEN Northern Coalition.
42
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 22:07:00 -
[73] - Quote
olan2005 wrote:Just curios does anyone else perceive this as a super capital Nerf to assist the goons in their current war. IS CCP colluding with goons to hand them null sec . Did the goon tears drive you to this
what he says .... CCP taking sides in favor of the RUSRUS/ GOONS... and not even trying to hide it.
WP CCP ... how much of their RMT did they pomise you? |
Iris Bravemount
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
293
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 00:00:00 -
[74] - Quote
Could you please have a look at the Minmatar vs Amarr (light to heavy) Drone Damage multiplier inversion issue while you're at drones ? "I will not hesitate when the test of Faith finds me, for only the strongest conviction will open the gates of paradise. My Faith in you is absolute; my sword is Yours, My God, and Your will guides me now and for all eternity." - Paladin's Creed |
PinkPanter
The Scope Gallente Federation
6
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 00:53:00 -
[75] - Quote
Goon tears win eve again. CCP yet again withouth any bullshit helps goons to keep their RMT empire. **** this. Hope this game dies soon so we can all move to a more balanced alternative whatever the **** it is. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
8546
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 01:11:00 -
[76] - Quote
Dragonzchilde wrote:olan2005 wrote:Just curios does anyone else perceive this as a super capital Nerf to assist the goons in their current war. IS CCP colluding with goons to hand them null sec . Did the goon tears drive you to this what he says .... CCP taking sides in favor of the RUSRUS/ GOONS... and not even trying to hide it. WP CCP ... how much of their RMT did they pomise you? A very substantial amount. CCP Fozzie gets an extra cut. My EVE Videos |
Althorn
Azure Flame
0
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 02:42:00 -
[77] - Quote
What about caldari Drones getting more shield hp (at the cost of armour) and Amarr the other way round?
Sorta mirror the racial preferences.
Correctly me if I'm wrong, but Gal already do the most damage and minny drones are fastest?
|
Meyr
SiN Corp Black Core Alliance
245
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 05:31:00 -
[78] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Quick announcement to start what will be a busy day. At the moment, all drones have the same shieldRechargeRate stat. All the way from Acolytes to Mantis'.
This was not an intended pattern and since the balance effects of fighter bombers sporting battlecruiser level passive tanks (mainly resistance to smartbombs and non-coordinated bombs) are negative we're going ahead and giving each size of drone a different shield recharge time just as we do with ships. Like with ships, the larger drones get better hp/s but the difference will now be much smaller. Light and medium drones are getting buffed, heavies staying the same, sentries through to fighter bombers nerfed.
This stat affects the time it takes the shields to regenerate passively from 0 to full. Lower is better.
At the moment every drone has a recharge time of 250s, post patch it will be:
Light - 125s Medium - 200s Heavy - 250s Sentry - 400s Fighter - 500s Fighter Bomber - 750s
This change will be on SISI for your testing shortly.
Let me see if I got this straight; we have a situation where all sub-sentry drones are Gallente ++ber alles, unless you're fighting Angels, that could be fixed with an extremely simple bit of number-swapping,
AND THIS IS THE ISSUE THAT YOUVE DECIDED TO GIVE YOUR ATTENTION TO?!?!
My God, whatever passes for decision-making skills on your part needs radical revision.
You simply want to make it easier to kill Fighters & Fighter-Bombers (gee, go figure, way to kiss DBRB's ass), instead of using an even more easily implemented fix to make Amarr drones not suck completely.
Nice job, Fozzie. Way to show that you care about more than the Goons. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
920
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 05:36:00 -
[79] - Quote
GetSirrus wrote:
will faction and T2 have superior regen?
and Fozzie, since you are messing with drones when will the damage multiple between amarr and minmatar drones be correctly sorted compared to the order of their base speeds?
Assuming Faction & T2 have the same shield regen speed, since they have larger shield values than the T1 (To my memory) they will have a higher actual regen rate. Since regen rate is a function of shield size/shield regen time. So if you increase shield size, you increase actual regen without needing to touch shield regen speed.
Also known as why shield extenders increase shield regen. |
Meyr
SiN Corp Black Core Alliance
245
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 05:38:00 -
[80] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:Manfred Sideous wrote: Fozzie look lots of people all saying the same thing. Hmmmmmm
"look, all the supercapital owners who had been benefiting from broken mechanics are all saying don't fix them" "bring back aoe dds and untacklable titans"
Look at all of the Goons who couldn't be assed to solve a problem on their own whining to CCP about it. |
|
Meyr
SiN Corp Black Core Alliance
245
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 05:50:00 -
[81] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Omnathious Deninard wrote:Just put of curiosity, what are your thoughts on increasing heavy drone optimal range to allow them to engage before 2 Km making them useful beyond point blank range? There's a lot more work we want to do to heavy drones, it's likely that both optimal and MWD speed will be high on the list of stats to look at when we do that pass.
But drone shield regen was SUCH an issue, you just absolutely HAD to address it now. Just like the Drone Upgrade modules needed to be adjusted NOW, before you actually got around to fixing DRONES!
Wow, are your true loyalties on display for all to see.
Sloppy, shoddy, piecemeal, patchwork, ill-thought 'quick-fixes' are no way to go about resolving balance issues.
You're paid to use your brain to help the WHOLE playerbase.
How about you start doing so? |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
8551
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 06:05:00 -
[82] - Quote
If CCP were actually catering to us supercapitals would no longer exist. My EVE Videos |
Meyr
SiN Corp Black Core Alliance
245
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 06:31:00 -
[83] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:If CCP were actually catering to us supercapitals would no longer exist.
Nah, too obvious. Nice try, though...
I'm actually going to be very curious to see which comes first - the drone or capital/super balance pass.
Personally, I'm betting on the caps, since they've proven that they really couldn't care less about the imbalances in drones that have existed for most of Eve's history, but could have been easily fixed.
Unless Goons complain about them, that is...
How about it, DBRB - can you write a post complaining that Amarr drones suck? How about one asking that E-War Drone Interfacing skill level actually affects E-War Drones? |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1116
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 08:47:00 -
[84] - Quote
GetSirrus wrote:Xe'Cara'eos wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Quick announcement to start what will be a busy day. At the moment, all drones have the same shieldRechargeRate stat. All the way from Acolytes to Mantis'.
This was not an intended pattern and since the balance effects of fighter bombers sporting battlecruiser level passive tanks (mainly resistance to smartbombs and non-coordinated bombs) are negative we're going ahead and giving each size of drone a different shield recharge time just as we do with ships. Like with ships, the larger drones get better hp/s but the difference will now be much smaller. Light and medium drones are getting buffed, heavies staying the same, sentries through to fighter bombers nerfed.
This stat affects the time it takes the shields to regenerate passively from 0 to full. Lower is better.
At the moment every drone has a recharge time of 250s, post patch it will be:
Light - 125s Medium - 200s Heavy - 250s Sentry - 400s Fighter - 500s Fighter Bomber - 750s
This change will be on SISI for your testing shortly. presuming these are T1 values - what about T2 heavies through sentries? will faction and T2 have superior regen? and Fozzie, since you are messing with drones when will the damage multiple between amarr and minmatar drones be correctly sorted compared to the order of their base speeds?
still think , instead of doign that they should make amarr droens have damae damage as gallente, but EM and make caldari drone same damage than minmatar but kin. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -įthen you are -įsurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1116
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 08:50:00 -
[85] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Dragonzchilde wrote:olan2005 wrote:Just curios does anyone else perceive this as a super capital Nerf to assist the goons in their current war. IS CCP colluding with goons to hand them null sec . Did the goon tears drive you to this what he says .... CCP taking sides in favor of the RUSRUS/ GOONS... and not even trying to hide it. WP CCP ... how much of their RMT did they pomise you? A very substantial amount. CCP Fozzie gets an extra cut.
Dotn beleive they change things intentionally to helpa side. But given the clear advantage to one side on these changes, woudl be wise of them to delay them. Even if not with will to, these changes are aheavy deus ex machina intervention of CCP in the war and should be delayed at least 1 monht so that all parts can prepare and adjust. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -įthen you are -įsurely not using enough!" |
Aineko Macx
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
282
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 09:46:00 -
[86] - Quote
Fozzie, the cost of fighter bombers in light of their utility vs. survivability was already pretty high (not even mentioning how easily the space coffins carrying them are thus made tooth-less). If you go through with these changes I would seriously suggest you to make them cheaper by lowering the build requirements and/or give them more hitpoints. |
PinkPanter
The Scope Gallente Federation
6
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 09:48:00 -
[87] - Quote
Aineko Macx wrote:Fozzie, the cost of fighter bombers in light of their utility vs. survivability was already pretty high. If you go through with these changes I would seriously suggest you to make them cheaper by lowering the build requirements and/or give them more hitpoints.
Doesn't make any difference since you can't pack a lot of them in a super anyway. CCP literally has no idea how their game works or they are RMT supporters. No other way. |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1119
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 09:50:00 -
[88] - Quote
PinkPanter wrote:Aineko Macx wrote:Fozzie, the cost of fighter bombers in light of their utility vs. survivability was already pretty high. If you go through with these changes I would seriously suggest you to make them cheaper by lowering the build requirements and/or give them more hitpoints. Doesn't make any difference since you can't pack a lot of them in a super anyway. CCP literally has no idea how their game works or they are RMT supporters. No other way.
By DEFINITION they are RMT . They CHARGE REAL MONEY FOR EVE! THat is THEIR WORK :P "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -įthen you are -įsurely not using enough!" |
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc Brave Collective
861
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 10:12:00 -
[89] - Quote
Eeh.. I don't understand. Sure reducing Fighter Bombers' survivability might not be a step in the right direction (and its debatable... DEATH TO ALL SUPERCAPITALS !).
... But you were not passive tanking your Fighter Bomber anyway right ? If you want to keep this expensive stuff alive, its normal that you put some effort on it, and not only let the passive regen do its job. I'm signature tanking !
|
PinkPanter
The Scope Gallente Federation
6
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 10:20:00 -
[90] - Quote
Altrue wrote:Eeh.. I don't understand. Sure reducing Fighter Bombers' survivability might not be a step in the right direction (and its debatable... DEATH TO ALL SUPERCAPITALS !).
... But you were not passive tanking your Fighter Bomber anyway right ? If you want to keep this expensive stuff alive, its normal that you put some effort on it, and not only let the passive regen do its job.
Between bomber runs and crap fb mobility passive tanking did save a few quite often. Goons trying to win the war with CCP help as always. Small or large doesn't matter. Those ******* RMT motherfuckers will do everything to keep their car payments going and CCP will realize they are dumb same way it was with GMs and BoB. This time there won't be many people left paying for the game and providing CCP with cash to pay its employees. |
|
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
8559
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 10:23:00 -
[91] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:But given the clear advantage to one side on these changes What clear advantage? Maybe it's just because I haven't been as active in fleets recently, but I don't recall anybody using fighters or fighter-bombers. Certainly not extensively. And even if they were, the shield regen has such a minor effect in practice. If your fighters or fighter-bombers are going to die, they'll probably die with or without the regen. My EVE Videos |
Irya Boone
TIPIAKS
333
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 10:23:00 -
[92] - Quote
CCP working really good to please goons , why you bother organize CSM anyway? RENAME null sec systems With the name of REAL Universe Stellar Name like KOI-730 etc etc It will be awesome. Need Black Ops be able to FIT cover ops cloaking device !!! |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
8562
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 10:35:00 -
[93] - Quote
It doesn't matter what change CCP makes at this point, scrubs are still going to scream about it being a change to please us. Even when it makes no sense to, such as here.
You should know that pretty much everyone thinks that fighters and fighter-bombers could do with being a bit more survivable. That would include us. My EVE Videos |
PinkPanter
The Scope Gallente Federation
6
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 10:41:00 -
[94] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:It doesn't matter what change CCP makes at this point, scrubs are still going to scream about it being a change to please us. Even when it makes no sense to, such as here.
We all know the reasons why you defend CCP in every way when they work in your favor. Thing is that fine, nerf ("adjust") stats when they are not in any way influencing current largest conflict in eve. In a month when everybody is home ratting, fine. We all have time to readjust. Right now is like always is when you have no counter. Tears and whine and you get mommies hand. |
Irya Boone
TIPIAKS
333
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 10:51:00 -
[95] - Quote
people are aking for improving drones and drone boat for years , drone boat in pvp ( i mean real one not 5K people in local ) are pain in the A ..
and instead of improving them they :
Nerf missions for drone boats drones get massive aggro Nerf bonuses of dominix , nerf tracking of sentries nerf omnidirectional link nerf everything drone related when goon ask
Gallente are supposed to be drone faction ( the lore say it ) and Prophecy has drone and be more efficient in pvp Archon ..... no bother tell anything at this point.
Maulus only 3 drones , keres .. get drone bay and drone BW nerfed
need more ? RENAME null sec systems With the name of REAL Universe Stellar Name like KOI-730 etc etc It will be awesome. Need Black Ops be able to FIT cover ops cloaking device !!! |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
8562
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 10:55:00 -
[96] - Quote
Are they influencing the current largest conflict? Show me a recent BR of a large (at least one full fleet on each side) where fighters or fighter-bombers factored significantly in dealing damage to other ships. Bonus points if you can show me more than one.
Even if they were, if CCP ever adopted the policy of lassez-faire on balance changes until such changes would not influence any ongoing conflicts, then they would never have the opportunity to make changes at all. Alliances with a vested interest in continuing their current tactics would continue to form conflicts just for the purpose of preventing CCP from acting.
Besides, capitals and fighters/fighter-bombers have yet to be rebalanced, which we all know is incoming. Fighters and fighter-bombers are likely to be part of that balance pass. This change, despite being a nerf (and a pretty ******* minor one at that), makes sense if you read Fozzie's rationale. Now if you want to complain about the HP, do so. You'd actually have valid points there. But the regen? Come on now. My EVE Videos |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
8563
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 11:07:00 -
[97] - Quote
Irya Boone wrote:Nerf missions for drone boats drones get massive aggro This is pretty easy to avoid if you're not an idiot.
Irya Boone wrote:Nerf bonuses of dominix No, the Dominix prior to Odyssey had only the 10% damage and hitpoint bonus. In Odyssey it was given a very powerful buff with a 10% bonus per level to drone tracking speed and optimal range. The buff was scaled back somewhat in Odyssey 1.1, but it's still very powerful and of course overall a significant buff over what it was prior.
So the net effect in recent history was a significant buff in that respect.
The Ishtar also got two powerful drone bonuses it didn't have before in Odyssey 1.1 - one was a 7.5% per level sentry drone tracking and optimal similar to what the Dominix has (but only affecting sentries), and the other was a 7.5% heavy drone tracking and MWD speed bonus. One of the bonuses that was replaced, the drone bay capacity bonus, was instead added to the ship's stats itself so it wasn't even lost.
Irya Boone wrote:nerf tracking of sentries When did this happen? I'm sure you have a link.
Irya Boone wrote:nerf omnidirectional link As far as tracking is concerned it's a buff, and as far as range is concerned it might not be as bad of a nerf as you think it is.
Irya Boone wrote:Gallente are supposed to be drone faction ( the lore say it ) And the game itself reflects it more than ever. Also the Prophecy wasn't even a drone boat at all until Retribution 1.1.
You do realize the shield regen is the same for heavy drones, and it's buffed for anything smaller? My EVE Videos |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1123
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 13:35:00 -
[98] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote:But given the clear advantage to one side on these changes What clear advantage? Maybe it's just because I haven't been as active in fleets recently, but I don't recall anybody using fighters or fighter-bombers. Certainly not extensively. And even if they were, the shield regen has such a minor effect in practice. If your fighters or fighter-bombers are going to die, they'll probably die with or without the regen.
Ther is an implication that your opponents have superiority on SuperCarriers and they are way more pront to use them. Not to bring up the validity or not of this statement here, but taking this premisse as true (and sicen most of eve takes as true, seems to be a good start) it hurts your enemies more than hurts you. CFC has subcapital superiority and on general notes the whoel set of changes makes supercapitals weaker while subcapitals stronger.
Your side has not used much SC, but your enemy has (more earlier in the war, less recently, but still clear disparity).
As I said, I do not believe its intetional of CCP to affect the war, but just stating that it will leave such impression. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -įthen you are -įsurely not using enough!" |
Manfred Sideous
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
349
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 13:40:00 -
[99] - Quote
Fozzie suggestion for fighterbombers. Reduce sig radius on them otherwise you are going to have 1 dude running a Isboxer killing 100's of fighterbombers on each pass. Which is dumb since Supercarriers can only carry 1 flight of Fighterbombers. |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
9004
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 13:58:00 -
[100] - Quote
Manfred Sideous wrote:Fozzie suggestion for fighterbombers. Reduce sig radius on them otherwise you are going to have 1 dude running a Isboxer killing 100's of fighterbombers on each pass. Which is dumb since Supercarriers can only carry 1 flight of Fighterbombers.
If someone can kill 100s of fighterbombers in a pass after 1.1, that means they can also do it right now. We're not changing total HP in this adjustment, just regen rate of shields.
Discussions about hp and sig radius of fighters and fighterbombers are worth having, but this is a change specifically to fix the defect surrounding the shield regen rates and the effect this was having on lighter sources of damage to drones. Game Designer | Team Five-0 https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/ |
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Meyr
SiN Corp Black Core Alliance
251
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 14:20:00 -
[101] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Manfred Sideous wrote:Fozzie suggestion for fighterbombers. Reduce sig radius on them otherwise you are going to have 1 dude running a Isboxer killing 100's of fighterbombers on each pass. Which is dumb since Supercarriers can only carry 1 flight of Fighterbombers. If someone can kill 100s of fighterbombers in a pass after 1.1, that means they can also do it right now. We're not changing total HP in this adjustment, just regen rate of shields. Discussions about hp and sig radius of fighters and fighterbombers are worth having, but this is a change specifically to fix the defect surrounding the shield regen rates and the effect this was having on lighter sources of damage to drones.
Drones -
Quite possibly the single worst weapon system, from the viewpoint of needing to be re-vamped, and you're going about it by doing one change at a time, instead of examining them, the modules & rigs that affect them, the SKILLS that affect them (for the love of all that you may or may not consider holy, when will you get around to making E-War Drone Interfacing have an affect upon E-WAR DRONES?!) the manner in which they're used (yes, Fozzie, that includes PVE), and the ships for whom they are the primary focus, as a whole, putting in the skull sweat, and presenting a change that brings better balance to PVP, doesn't screw over PVE (yeah, like you've shown that you actually care about the parts of the game that 70% of your subscribers say is their primary focus [/SARCASM]), and appears BALANCED!
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Phoenus
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
137
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 14:29:00 -
[102] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Manfred Sideous wrote:Fozzie suggestion for fighterbombers. Reduce sig radius on them otherwise you are going to have 1 dude running a Isboxer killing 100's of fighterbombers on each pass. Which is dumb since Supercarriers can only carry 1 flight of Fighterbombers. If someone can kill 100s of fighterbombers in a pass after 1.1, that means they can also do it right now. We're not changing total HP in this adjustment, just regen rate of shields. Discussions about hp and sig radius of fighters and fighterbombers are worth having, but this is a change specifically to fix the defect surrounding the shield regen rates and the effect this was having on lighter sources of damage to drones.
So what is so massively broken about Drone regen rates, that it needs fixing right now? Wait until you do a balance pass on drones as a whole, and then fix the issues alongside other changes that you may make. |
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
634
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 14:44:00 -
[103] - Quote
sig radius is the biggest issue in terms of tanking for drones as considering all drones are smaller than frigates yet some have cruiser sigs and are thus easily picked off.. then of course getting around to making them actually consistent with their races might help .. like caldari drones should actually have more shield HP than structure which without resists is just easy to chew through.
then there is the engagement range which is tiny along with their tiny optimal ranges ... drones should be really agile ... maybe T2 drones could have a role bonus .. 25% damage reduction to incoming damage due to their agility making them hard to track Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic. Nerf web strength ..... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
8575
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 14:45:00 -
[104] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote:But given the clear advantage to one side on these changes What clear advantage? Maybe it's just because I haven't been as active in fleets recently, but I don't recall anybody using fighters or fighter-bombers. Certainly not extensively. And even if they were, the shield regen has such a minor effect in practice. If your fighters or fighter-bombers are going to die, they'll probably die with or without the regen. Ther is an implication that your opponents have superiority on SuperCarriers and they are way more pront to use them. Not to bring up the validity or not of this statement here, but taking this premisse as true (and sicen most of eve takes as true, seems to be a good start) it hurts your enemies more than hurts you. CFC has subcapital superiority and on general notes the whoel set of changes makes supercapitals weaker while subcapitals stronger. Your side has not used much SC, but your enemy has (more earlier in the war, less recently, but still clear disparity). As I said, I do not believe its intetional of CCP to affect the war, but just stating that it will leave such impression. They may use supercarriers, but they're not using them to deal damage to other ships. They're either dealing damage to structures in the absence of enemy fleets, or they're providing logistics as part of the wrecking ball doctrine. My EVE Videos |
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
1972
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 14:50:00 -
[105] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Manfred Sideous wrote:Fozzie suggestion for fighterbombers. Reduce sig radius on them otherwise you are going to have 1 dude running a Isboxer killing 100's of fighterbombers on each pass. Which is dumb since Supercarriers can only carry 1 flight of Fighterbombers. If someone can kill 100s of fighterbombers in a pass after 1.1, that means they can also do it right now. We're not changing total HP in this adjustment, just regen rate of shields. Discussions about hp and sig radius of fighters and fighterbombers are worth having, but this is a change specifically to fix the defect surrounding the shield regen rates and the effect this was having on lighter sources of damage to drones.
Oh, and don't forget that little tidbit about hammering shield regen on Sentries, which when accompanying the quadruple nerf of Omnidirectionals, absolutely kills using Garde II's in a PvE situation.
First you wiped out the use of heavies in missions with that asinine and malicious change to the rat AI. You gloated and told people to "adapt". So we adapted to using sentries, and now you have killed those too.
So what do drone boat operators adapt to using now, harsh language? Most people viewed Orwell's writings as a warning. The harper regime and the goons treat them as a guidebook. |
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
634
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 14:55:00 -
[106] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Manfred Sideous wrote:Fozzie suggestion for fighterbombers. Reduce sig radius on them otherwise you are going to have 1 dude running a Isboxer killing 100's of fighterbombers on each pass. Which is dumb since Supercarriers can only carry 1 flight of Fighterbombers. If someone can kill 100s of fighterbombers in a pass after 1.1, that means they can also do it right now. We're not changing total HP in this adjustment, just regen rate of shields. Discussions about hp and sig radius of fighters and fighterbombers are worth having, but this is a change specifically to fix the defect surrounding the shield regen rates and the effect this was having on lighter sources of damage to drones. Oh, and don't forget that little tidbit about hammering shield regen on Sentries, which when accompanying the quadruple nerf of Omnidirectionals, absolutely kills using Garde II's in a PvE situation. First you wiped out the use of heavies in missions with that asinine and malicious change to the rat AI. You gloated and told people to "adapt". So we adapted to using sentries, and now you have killed those too. So what do drone boat operators adapt to using now, harsh language?
talk about over the top ... if you rely on sentries shield regen to tank rats you're doing something wrong .... domi with multiple armour reps can keep sentries alive no problem ... and tracking isn't so much of an issue if you have a variety of drones available in your dronebay for close range rats .. the range is more important for sentries Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic. Nerf web strength ..... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
Manfred Sideous
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
349
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 14:57:00 -
[107] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Manfred Sideous wrote:Fozzie suggestion for fighterbombers. Reduce sig radius on them otherwise you are going to have 1 dude running a Isboxer killing 100's of fighterbombers on each pass. Which is dumb since Supercarriers can only carry 1 flight of Fighterbombers. If someone can kill 100s of fighterbombers in a pass after 1.1, that means they can also do it right now. We're not changing total HP in this adjustment, just regen rate of shields. Discussions about hp and sig radius of fighters and fighterbombers are worth having, but this is a change specifically to fix the defect surrounding the shield regen rates and the effect this was having on lighter sources of damage to drones.
How about waiting on drone shield recharge rates till you can look at drones as a whole. The mechanics the modules and the drones themselves. Instead of butchering supercarriers even more. Because currently I have a 25 billion isk ship that able to have its dps removed by a single guy with a Isboxer. I don't know how to say it any other way other than that's bullshit.
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Meyr
SiN Corp Black Core Alliance
251
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 15:33:00 -
[108] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Manfred Sideous wrote:Fozzie suggestion for fighterbombers. Reduce sig radius on them otherwise you are going to have 1 dude running a Isboxer killing 100's of fighterbombers on each pass. Which is dumb since Supercarriers can only carry 1 flight of Fighterbombers. If someone can kill 100s of fighterbombers in a pass after 1.1, that means they can also do it right now. We're not changing total HP in this adjustment, just regen rate of shields. Discussions about hp and sig radius of fighters and fighterbombers are worth having, but this is a change specifically to fix the defect surrounding the shield regen rates and the effect this was having on lighter sources of damage to drones. Oh, and don't forget that little tidbit about hammering shield regen on Sentries, which when accompanying the quadruple nerf of Omnidirectionals, absolutely kills using Garde II's in a PvE situation. First you wiped out the use of heavies in missions with that asinine and malicious change to the rat AI. You gloated and told people to "adapt". So we adapted to using sentries, and now you have killed those too. So what do drone boat operators adapt to using now, harsh language?
'Aliens' quote, FTW!!! |
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
1973
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 15:44:00 -
[109] - Quote
Harvey James wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Manfred Sideous wrote:Fozzie suggestion for fighterbombers. Reduce sig radius on them otherwise you are going to have 1 dude running a Isboxer killing 100's of fighterbombers on each pass. Which is dumb since Supercarriers can only carry 1 flight of Fighterbombers. If someone can kill 100s of fighterbombers in a pass after 1.1, that means they can also do it right now. We're not changing total HP in this adjustment, just regen rate of shields. Discussions about hp and sig radius of fighters and fighterbombers are worth having, but this is a change specifically to fix the defect surrounding the shield regen rates and the effect this was having on lighter sources of damage to drones. Oh, and don't forget that little tidbit about hammering shield regen on Sentries, which when accompanying the quadruple nerf of Omnidirectionals, absolutely kills using Garde II's in a PvE situation. First you wiped out the use of heavies in missions with that asinine and malicious change to the rat AI. You gloated and told people to "adapt". So we adapted to using sentries, and now you have killed those too. So what do drone boat operators adapt to using now, harsh language? talk about over the top ... if you rely on sentries shield regen to tank rats you're doing something wrong .... domi with multiple armour reps can keep sentries alive no problem ... and tracking isn't so much of an issue if you have a variety of drones available in your dronebay for close range rats .. the range is more important for sentries
And what about Gila, VNI, Proteus pilots who don't have the cap to operate an internal repper and an RR, who rely on pulling in drones. And the Omni nerf's wreck the optimal of Sentries, which wreck the effective DPS, which wrecks income. Most people viewed Orwell's writings as a warning. The harper regime and the goons treat them as a guidebook. |
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
2126
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 15:50:00 -
[110] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Harvey James wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Manfred Sideous wrote:Fozzie suggestion for fighterbombers. Reduce sig radius on them otherwise you are going to have 1 dude running a Isboxer killing 100's of fighterbombers on each pass. Which is dumb since Supercarriers can only carry 1 flight of Fighterbombers. If someone can kill 100s of fighterbombers in a pass after 1.1, that means they can also do it right now. We're not changing total HP in this adjustment, just regen rate of shields. Discussions about hp and sig radius of fighters and fighterbombers are worth having, but this is a change specifically to fix the defect surrounding the shield regen rates and the effect this was having on lighter sources of damage to drones. Oh, and don't forget that little tidbit about hammering shield regen on Sentries, which when accompanying the quadruple nerf of Omnidirectionals, absolutely kills using Garde II's in a PvE situation. First you wiped out the use of heavies in missions with that asinine and malicious change to the rat AI. You gloated and told people to "adapt". So we adapted to using sentries, and now you have killed those too. So what do drone boat operators adapt to using now, harsh language? talk about over the top ... if you rely on sentries shield regen to tank rats you're doing something wrong .... domi with multiple armour reps can keep sentries alive no problem ... and tracking isn't so much of an issue if you have a variety of drones available in your dronebay for close range rats .. the range is more important for sentries And what about Gila, VNI, Proteus pilots who don't have the cap to operate an internal repper and an RR, who rely on pulling in drones. And the Omni nerf's wreck the optimal of Sentries, which wreck the effective DPS, which wrecks income. There are these thing called cap booster. Novis Initiis is Recruting-į --į Ideas for Drone Improvement |
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Sid Crash
94
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 15:50:00 -
[111] - Quote
Instead of nerfing sentries, why don't you solve the ACTUAL issue; Drone assist. |
PinkPanter
The Scope Gallente Federation
6
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 15:53:00 -
[112] - Quote
CCP has no idea what it's doing but goons cry so all good! |
Batelle
Komm susser Tod
1290
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 16:00:00 -
[113] - Quote
but I really LIKED seeing my sentry drone tank a guristas battleship. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
634
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 16:23:00 -
[114] - Quote
how does the optimal get reduced here? you are being forced to pick either optimal or tracking with the scripts.. so if you pick optimal you end up with the same range as before unless i am mistaken and bouncers will still have plenty of range anyway even if there is less range Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic. Nerf web strength ..... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
2126
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 16:48:00 -
[115] - Quote
Harvey James wrote:how does the optimal get reduced here? you are being forced to pick either optimal or tracking with the scripts.. so if you pick optimal you end up with the same range as before unless i am mistaken and bouncers will still have plenty of range anyway even if there is less range
edit... you even get falloff bonus now too compensate for optimal loss whatever that figure is.. Yeah, you are mistaken. Omnis now boost 7.5% optimal, 15% falloff and 15% tracking, with the same scripts as a tracking computer. For a whopping .4gj/s Novis Initiis is Recruting-į --į Ideas for Drone Improvement |
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
634
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 16:55:00 -
[116] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:Harvey James wrote:how does the optimal get reduced here? you are being forced to pick either optimal or tracking with the scripts.. so if you pick optimal you end up with the same range as before unless i am mistaken and bouncers will still have plenty of range anyway even if there is less range
edit... you even get falloff bonus now too compensate for optimal loss whatever that figure is.. Yeah, you are mistaken. Omnis now boost 7.5% optimal, 15% falloff and 15% tracking, with the same scripts as a tracking computer. For a whopping .4gj/s
well it is hard to understand what the current bonus actually is 1.25x multiplier means what in %? Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic. Nerf web strength ..... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
2126
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 17:31:00 -
[117] - Quote
25% Novis Initiis is Recruting-į --į Ideas for Drone Improvement |
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
634
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 17:47:00 -
[118] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:25%
ok so with script you get 30% Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic. Nerf web strength ..... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6130
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 17:49:00 -
[119] - Quote
Manfred Sideous wrote: How about waiting on drone shield recharge rates till you can look at drones as a whole. The mechanics the modules and the drones themselves. Instead of butchering supercarriers even more. Because currently I have a 25 billion isk ship that able to have its dps removed by a single guy with a Isboxer. I don't know how to say it any other way other than that's bullshit.
"a single guy with a isboxer" is a fairly deceptive way of saying "a number of people working in unison"
why, i could say that an entire wrecking ball fleet is nothing but a single guy with some zombie computers
and supercarriers were deliberately designed around being able to be defanged (hence the limited FB capacity) so that's working as intended
"I can hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6130
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 17:51:00 -
[120] - Quote
"i should be able to pay enough money to be immune to the little people" "I can hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
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TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
492
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 18:08:00 -
[121] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Manfred Sideous wrote:Fozzie suggestion for fighterbombers. Reduce sig radius on them otherwise you are going to have 1 dude running a Isboxer killing 100's of fighterbombers on each pass. Which is dumb since Supercarriers can only carry 1 flight of Fighterbombers. If someone can kill 100s of fighterbombers in a pass after 1.1, that means they can also do it right now. We're not changing total HP in this adjustment, just regen rate of shields. Discussions about hp and sig radius of fighters and fighterbombers are worth having, but this is a change specifically to fix the defect surrounding the shield regen rates and the effect this was having on lighter sources of damage to drones.
Can we discuss whether carriers should even have dronebays? They're meant to be logistics ships, I don't get why they get all this extra stuff. |
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
634
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 18:18:00 -
[122] - Quote
TrouserDeagle wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Manfred Sideous wrote:Fozzie suggestion for fighterbombers. Reduce sig radius on them otherwise you are going to have 1 dude running a Isboxer killing 100's of fighterbombers on each pass. Which is dumb since Supercarriers can only carry 1 flight of Fighterbombers. If someone can kill 100s of fighterbombers in a pass after 1.1, that means they can also do it right now. We're not changing total HP in this adjustment, just regen rate of shields. Discussions about hp and sig radius of fighters and fighterbombers are worth having, but this is a change specifically to fix the defect surrounding the shield regen rates and the effect this was having on lighter sources of damage to drones. Can we discuss whether carriers should even have dronebays? They're meant to be logistics ships, I don't get why they get all this extra stuff.
nm... change their drone bays into fighter bays instead Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic. Nerf web strength ..... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
8590
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 18:46:00 -
[123] - Quote
TrouserDeagle wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Manfred Sideous wrote:Fozzie suggestion for fighterbombers. Reduce sig radius on them otherwise you are going to have 1 dude running a Isboxer killing 100's of fighterbombers on each pass. Which is dumb since Supercarriers can only carry 1 flight of Fighterbombers. If someone can kill 100s of fighterbombers in a pass after 1.1, that means they can also do it right now. We're not changing total HP in this adjustment, just regen rate of shields. Discussions about hp and sig radius of fighters and fighterbombers are worth having, but this is a change specifically to fix the defect surrounding the shield regen rates and the effect this was having on lighter sources of damage to drones. Can we discuss whether carriers should even have dronebays? They're meant to be logistics ships, I don't get why they get all this extra stuff. As worthwhile a discussion this is to have, the thread for this is coming. Most likely by 2015. My EVE Videos |
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
2126
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 20:18:00 -
[124] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:TrouserDeagle wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Manfred Sideous wrote:Fozzie suggestion for fighterbombers. Reduce sig radius on them otherwise you are going to have 1 dude running a Isboxer killing 100's of fighterbombers on each pass. Which is dumb since Supercarriers can only carry 1 flight of Fighterbombers. If someone can kill 100s of fighterbombers in a pass after 1.1, that means they can also do it right now. We're not changing total HP in this adjustment, just regen rate of shields. Discussions about hp and sig radius of fighters and fighterbombers are worth having, but this is a change specifically to fix the defect surrounding the shield regen rates and the effect this was having on lighter sources of damage to drones. Can we discuss whether carriers should even have dronebays? They're meant to be logistics ships, I don't get why they get all this extra stuff. As worthwhile a discussion this is to have, the thread for this is coming. Most likely by 2015. I suppose there is nothing stopping a new thread on the discussion in the general F&I area. Novis Initiis is Recruting-į --į Ideas for Drone Improvement |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
969
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 21:23:00 -
[125] - Quote
Harvey James wrote:Omnathious Deninard wrote:25% ok so with script you get 15% op and 30% falloff That's with 2 mods whereas before you got 25% to each with 1. So in no way can a single mod get you what it did prior range wise. Additionally limiting that reduction in range bonus to 10% rather than 17.5% means giving up any of the tracking bonus. |
Lelob
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
168
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 21:58:00 -
[126] - Quote
This seems kinda ****** for supercarriers, making it much easier to bomb fb's off the field in big fleet battles. I really do not think this will be a helpful change as far as supers go, as it will just make them more and more useless in the long term tidi fights, which seem to be the norm nowadays. I think at the least you should really consider reducing the sig on fb's to at least make them a bit more sturdy against bombers so that they are not relegated to glorified logistic boats. |
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
634
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 22:55:00 -
[127] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Harvey James wrote:Omnathious Deninard wrote:25% ok so with script you get 15% op and 30% falloff That's with 2 mods whereas before you got 25% to each with 1. So in no way can a single mod get you what it did prior range wise. Additionally limiting that reduction in range bonus to 10% rather than 17.5% means giving up any of the tracking bonus.
if you fit a T2 TC with a range script then you do get 15% optimal and 30% falloff... Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic. Nerf web strength ..... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
Meyr
SiN Corp Black Core Alliance
256
|
Posted - 2014.01.18 05:53:00 -
[128] - Quote
Why is it that you felt the need to do THESE changes NOW!(tm) instead of waiting for the Drone Mechanics Balance Pass(tm), which is most definitely NOT "Coming Soon!(tm).
If it were, you wouldn't feel the need to propose these two specific changes as you have (See what I did there? Logic!).
Yet again, there is no one with two brain cells that rub together arguing that drones don't need attention, and a LOT of it. Thus, the question - why these specific changes, right now, when there are so many others you could have made, with far less effort, that would actually help balance ALL drones, not simply nerf Fighters and Fighter Bombers (and before any of you start pointing out that this 'buffed' Light Drones, pull your heads out, and ask if you REALLY want to take me to task for what is now a whopping FOUR DPS TANK?).
What you've done here, with your proposed changes, is offered all stick, with zero carrot, under questionable circumstances. You're offering, using your words, all 'downside', with the vague promise that you'll eventually get around to addressing the rest of the rather lengthy list of drone issues at some later point in time, unless it gets bumped by some other catastrophe.
Thoughts, comments, anything? |
Aineko Macx
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
283
|
Posted - 2014.01.18 07:02:00 -
[129] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:and supercarriers were deliberately designed around being able to be defanged (hence the limited FB capacity) so that's working as intended Yes, A supercarrier, not an arbitrarily sized fleet of them with constant and low effort. |
Basil Pupkin
Why So Platypus
22
|
Posted - 2014.01.18 14:11:00 -
[130] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Quick announcement to start what will be a busy day. At the moment, all drones have the same shieldRechargeRate stat. All the way from Acolytes to Mantis'.
This was not an intended pattern and since the balance effects of fighter bombers sporting battlecruiser level passive tanks (mainly resistance to smartbombs and non-coordinated bombs) are negative we're going ahead and giving each size of drone a different shield recharge time just as we do with ships. Like with ships, the larger drones get better hp/s but the difference will now be much smaller. Light and medium drones are getting buffed, heavies staying the same, sentries through to fighter bombers nerfed.
This stat affects the time it takes the shields to regenerate passively from 0 to full. Lower is better.
At the moment every drone has a recharge time of 250s, post patch it will be:
Light - 125s Medium - 200s Heavy - 250s Sentry - 400s Fighter - 500s Fighter Bomber - 750s
This change will be on SISI for your testing shortly. Goon story, bro. |
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Grarr Dexx
Snuff Box
307
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Posted - 2014.01.19 03:56:00 -
[131] - Quote
Xolve wrote:Could probably just delete fighters altogether at this point. Not like anyone would really notice anyway. Grarr Dexx wrote:lol pee el crying about fb nerfs We're collectively writing letters to Internal Affairs about it, so we can be just as mad as you were about that 'Kings of Lowsec' competition you lost.
where's ur flag mate |
Zz Lazer
Astral Sanctuary - 4th Division
0
|
Posted - 2014.01.19 11:48:00 -
[132] - Quote
I am old and retired -> can you tell me why training has to take years to effectively play this game? I might be dead before I can fly a super.
Looking at EveMon, training time is the most frustrating thing ever, period.
Quote:Let us buy skill points - this drone rebalance is just not important to me at all. |
Verity Sovereign
Sovereign Fleet Tax Shelter
713
|
Posted - 2014.01.19 12:07:00 -
[133] - Quote
any plans on fixing amarr scout and heavy drones? |
Optimo Sebiestor
Intentionally Dense Easily Excited
222
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Posted - 2014.01.19 12:59:00 -
[134] - Quote
Please make Sentries the same as Heavy drones.... 250s.. |
Meyr
SiN Corp Black Core Alliance
274
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 14:22:00 -
[135] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Quick announcement to start what will be a busy day. At the moment, all drones have the same shieldRechargeRate stat. All the way from Acolytes to Mantis'.
This was not an intended pattern and since the balance effects of fighter bombers sporting battlecruiser level passive tanks (mainly resistance to smartbombs and non-coordinated bombs) are negative we're going ahead and giving each size of drone a different shield recharge time just as we do with ships. Like with ships, the larger drones get better hp/s but the difference will now be much smaller. Light and medium drones are getting buffed, heavies staying the same, sentries through to fighter bombers nerfed.
This stat affects the time it takes the shields to regenerate passively from 0 to full. Lower is better.
At the moment every drone has a recharge time of 250s, post patch it will be:
Light - 125s Medium - 200s Heavy - 250s Sentry - 400s Fighter - 500s Fighter Bomber - 750s
This change will be on SISI for your testing shortly.
Current numbers using highest shield capacity examples (note that all other Fighters & Fighter-Bombers will have lower numbers): Dragonfly - 3000 / 250 = 12 DPS passive tank Mantis - 6000 / 250 = 24 DPS passive tank
Proposed change will result in: Dragonfly - 3000 / 500 = 6 DPS passive tank Mantis - 6000 / 750 = 8 DPS passive tank
Are Fighters and Fighter-Bombers truly so overpowered that you feel it necessary to cut their shield regen rates by 50% and 67%, respectively?
Also, who the hell flies a BC relying upon a whopping TWENTY-FOUR DPS passive shield tank? (Your words, not mine, Fozzie). You WERE referring to a fitted-and-flown BC, weren't you? Otherwise, you're going to have to nerf things even further just to reach Drake level (5250 / 1400 = 3.75, or, about the same as your new, super beefy Hobgoblin. YARRR!!!).
The REAL questions should be - "Should a Fighter have roughly the same tank as a well-fit frigate? Should a Fighter-Bomber have approximately the same tank as a decent cruiser?"
Considering the costs and training time involved in acquiring the ability to properly utilize these drones, the questions and comparisons are sensible.
As the only offensive capability fielded by ships costing in the billions, and as units that, themselves, cost what a nicely-fit cruiser does, having that level of passive defense is not inappropriate.
Now, if you have further plans in the works to enhance the durability of these units, fine, be it through adjusted stats, an additional skill, or allowing them to benefit from existing skills, fine.
Make this change at that time. Otherwise, you're just punishing the users of these drones (a) for no reason than that you can, or (b) because there are those who feel it's just too tough to de-fang Carriers and Supercarriers with, again, YOUR WORDS, "NON-COORDINATED BOMBS."
I think we can all reasonably interpret that to mean shoddily-flown and poorly-coordinated and FC'd bombers. I leave it to you to determine which particular null-sec power block I'm inferring that you're sucking up to. |
Eric Shang
The Bastards The Bastards.
45
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Posted - 2014.01.20 17:02:00 -
[136] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Omnathious Deninard wrote:Just put of curiosity, what are your thoughts on increasing heavy drone optimal range to allow them to engage before 2 Km making them useful beyond point blank range? There's a lot more work we want to do to heavy drones, it's likely that both optimal and MWD speed will be high on the list of stats to look at when we do that pass.
Please make light drones mwd faster then 7km. Its for those pesky interceptors with links running. Cant shoot them and drones don't work. |
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
2127
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 17:19:00 -
[137] - Quote
Eric Shang wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Omnathious Deninard wrote:Just put of curiosity, what are your thoughts on increasing heavy drone optimal range to allow them to engage before 2 Km making them useful beyond point blank range? There's a lot more work we want to do to heavy drones, it's likely that both optimal and MWD speed will be high on the list of stats to look at when we do that pass. Please make light drones mwd faster then 7km. Its for those pesky interceptors with links running. Cant shoot them and drones don't work. Algos and warrior II will do that, if you still need more ther is drone navigation computers and rigs to further increase there speed. Novis Initiis is Recruting-į --į Ideas for Drone Improvement |
Estella Osoka
Deep Void Merc Syndicate Sicarius Draconis
275
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 20:30:00 -
[138] - Quote
Anyone know what the max shield each drone has? and what are their resists? |
Meyr
SiN Corp Black Core Alliance
275
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 13:12:00 -
[139] - Quote
You can 'Show Info' in the market tab, and get those answers for yourself. |
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
624
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 08:04:00 -
[140] - Quote
Optimo Sebiestor wrote:Please make Sentries the same as Heavy drones.... 250s..
CCP must really hate sentry drones. They're getting a tracking nerf, a range nerf AND a shield nerf??? Come on what's next they run out of ammo after a minute so you have to scoop and redeploy do they can "reload"?
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Phoenix Jones
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
401
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Posted - 2014.01.22 14:18:00 -
[141] - Quote
IIshira wrote:Optimo Sebiestor wrote:Please make Sentries the same as Heavy drones.... 250s.. CCP must really hate sentry drones. They're getting a tracking nerf, a range nerf AND a shield nerf??? Come on what's next they run out of ammo after a minute so you have to scoop and redeploy do they can "reload"?
They just turned sentry drones into a specific weapon system. It does not use ammo, but its now effected as every other gun is in the game, by added modules, overheating, etc.
Now they have to figure out how to overheat drones. Stabbers are totally broken
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=15116553
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Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
2068
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 14:30:00 -
[142] - Quote
IIshira wrote:Optimo Sebiestor wrote:Please make Sentries the same as Heavy drones.... 250s.. CCP must really hate sentry drones. They're getting a tracking nerf, a range nerf AND a shield nerf??? Come on what's next they run out of ammo after a minute so you have to scoop and redeploy do they can "reload"?
Look at the author of this disaster, then look at his past history of game mechanics he has wrecked. This obliteration of sentries is right in line with everything else he has done. Most people viewed Orwell's writings as a warning. The harper regime and the goons treat them as a guidebook. |
Icarus Able
Revenant Tactical
328
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 14:54:00 -
[143] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:IIshira wrote:Optimo Sebiestor wrote:Please make Sentries the same as Heavy drones.... 250s.. CCP must really hate sentry drones. They're getting a tracking nerf, a range nerf AND a shield nerf??? Come on what's next they run out of ammo after a minute so you have to scoop and redeploy do they can "reload"? Look at the author of this disaster, then look at his past history of game mechanics he has wrecked. This obliteration of sentries is right in line with everything else he has done.
Sentry drones are overpowered as ****. The tracking of medium guns with the damage of large guns all that can be put onto some cruiser hulls. Your tears are hilarious.
What game mechanics has he "wrecked"? So far it seems hes hit things with the nerfbat that needed to be nerfed. |
Notorious Fellon
Republic University Minmatar Republic
128
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Posted - 2014.01.22 21:16:00 -
[144] - Quote
The secretly planned buffs to fighters must be HUGE to make up for this change on top of their existing crap stats.
I look forward to seeing it. |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1161
|
Posted - 2014.01.23 09:08:00 -
[145] - Quote
Notorious Fellon wrote:The secretly planned buffs to fighters must be HUGE to make up for this change on top of their existing crap stats.
I look forward to seeing it.
They will fire rainbows. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -įthen you are -įsurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1161
|
Posted - 2014.01.23 09:10:00 -
[146] - Quote
Icarus Able wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:IIshira wrote:Optimo Sebiestor wrote:Please make Sentries the same as Heavy drones.... 250s.. CCP must really hate sentry drones. They're getting a tracking nerf, a range nerf AND a shield nerf??? Come on what's next they run out of ammo after a minute so you have to scoop and redeploy do they can "reload"? Look at the author of this disaster, then look at his past history of game mechanics he has wrecked. This obliteration of sentries is right in line with everything else he has done. Sentry drones are overpowered as ****. The tracking of medium guns with the damage of large guns all that can be put onto some cruiser hulls. Your tears are hilarious. What game mechanics has he "wrecked"? So far it seems hes hit things with the nerfbat that needed to be nerfed.
That is a complete exageration. They track way worse than medium guns (unless you are thinking medium arties) . A cuiser orbiting close can avoid 100% of the damage ( I know.. i do it all the time)
They track as SHORT RANGE LARGE GUNS, but with long ranges... still high, but not as some people state. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -įthen you are -įsurely not using enough!" |
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
219
|
Posted - 2014.01.28 04:33:00 -
[147] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:Notorious Fellon wrote:The secretly planned buffs to fighters must be HUGE to make up for this change on top of their existing crap stats.
I look forward to seeing it. They will fire rainbows.
... and pink unicorns |
Vincintius Agrippa
F L O O D
29
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Posted - 2014.01.29 18:02:00 -
[148] - Quote
WarFireV wrote:Fighter and Fighter Bombers don't really need anymore nerfing.
I hear tell that fighters and bombers cant hit anything smaller than a BC or BS. Why?
I was under the impression that they were frig and dessie sized drones respectively. And that because of that theyd have frig and dessie sigs for their guns. It seems pretty stupid that they cant hit cruisers and ****.
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Vincintius Agrippa
F L O O D
29
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Posted - 2014.01.29 18:29:00 -
[149] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Quick announcement to start what will be a busy day. At the moment, all drones have the same shieldRechargeRate stat. All the way from Acolytes to Mantis'.
This was not an intended pattern and since the balance effects of fighter bombers sporting battlecruiser level passive tanks (mainly resistance to smartbombs and non-coordinated bombs) are negative we're going ahead and giving each size of drone a different shield recharge time just as we do with ships. Like with ships, the larger drones get better hp/s but the difference will now be much smaller. Light and medium drones are getting buffed, heavies staying the same, sentries through to fighter bombers nerfed.
This stat affects the time it takes the shields to regenerate passively from 0 to full. Lower is better.
At the moment every drone has a recharge time of 250s, post patch it will be:
Light - 125s Medium - 200s Heavy - 250s Sentry - 400s Fighter - 500s Fighter Bomber - 750s
This change will be on SISI for your testing shortly.
Only an unskilled drone user would keep his drones out after their shields were depleted. In the case of light and medium drones I would simply return them to drone bay and redeploy :)
Why are sentries being nerfed? They are stationary and have to be used at range. Honestly it seems as though you people are not "balancing", but instead are destroying anything that becomes popular and making everything other alternative to it better. Only to repeat this process again and again.................. Your not going to have an even split of 25% of eve players between the four factions. Some ships look better, some weapons look better.......... Its all about personal taste.
P.s Multiple 500 man Nullsec domi/sentry fleets make up 95+% of the domi/sentry kills on killboards. |
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
237
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 00:12:00 -
[150] - Quote
Vincintius Agrippa wrote:[quote=CCP Fozzie]
Why are sentries being nerfed? They are stationary and have to be used at range. Honestly it seems as though you people are not "balancing", but instead are destroying anything that becomes popular and making everything other alternative to it better. Only to repeat this process again and again.................. Your not going to have an even split of 25% of eve players between the four factions. Some ships look better, some weapons look better.......... Its all about personal taste.
P.s Multiple 500 man Nullsec domi/sentry fleets make up 95+% of the domi/sentry kills on killboards.
Actually what happens in games is if something is even a few percent better it will suddenly dominate and nothing else gets used. You can see this clearly in modules where a variant with a fraction more effect or 1 less CPU fitting requirement will be the only one in regular use and everything else gets reprocessed. Unfortunately that popularity often then gets interpreted as "way overpowered" and is followed by a significant nerf.
There is however another issue what i like to call the "evil santa" syndrome. CCP can tend to get over excited about new stuff and often hand out new toys that actually are OP. Then next patch they behave like an evil santa coming back after Christmas and replacing all the great toys with broken ones. The problem with this is it can severely effect new players who have put most of their SP into a particular doctrine sometimes setting them back enough to consider quitting.
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Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
2217
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Posted - 2014.01.31 13:13:00 -
[151] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Manfred Sideous wrote:Fozzie suggestion for fighterbombers. Reduce sig radius on them otherwise you are going to have 1 dude running a Isboxer killing 100's of fighterbombers on each pass. Which is dumb since Supercarriers can only carry 1 flight of Fighterbombers. If someone can kill 100s of fighterbombers in a pass after 1.1, that means they can also do it right now. We're not changing total HP in this adjustment, just regen rate of shields. Discussions about hp and sig radius of fighters and fighterbombers are worth having, but this is a change specifically to fix the defect surrounding the shield regen rates and the effect this was having on lighter sources of damage to drones.
I think you should re examine this statement, as its turning out to be false.
Pre 1.1 we could nanny the fighterbombers and keep them relatively alive, but now a single ISBoxed bomber squad makes 2 passes and we're short all our fighterbombers no matter what we do.
If you would like proof, Wheniaminspace is bombing our fighterbombers near nightly when we bring them out. It takes him simply the cooldown time on the bomb launcher to do so.
Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
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Sione Tolutau
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
2
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Posted - 2014.02.01 21:50:00 -
[152] - Quote
For a light to medium drone user this sounds great |
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