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Krios Ahzek
Juvenis Iratus
116
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Posted - 2011.11.12 00:05:00 -
[151] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Nova Fox wrote:TD;DR
Basically said that High Sec Players like to create not destroy.
This is not the case though there is much room for colonizing 0.0 and building something that would be talked for ages. There are very few things that come even close to what you can do out there and build out there. Then like all things in order to build you must find the ashes of before to build upon. Actually this was tried before - it was called "Hub 0" or something like that. There were a couple of epic threadnaughts over it. It was tried, and fell to the fact that some people just can't get past ganking - and then those people, being sociopaths, did the usual politics, hiding behind the "EvE is harsh" argument, and other forms of self aggrandizing bloviations, dramaboi routines, and standard trappings of the Neckbeard Universe. I know what would work. I mentioned in another thread recently that system to system warp, Star Trek or Star Wars style (though I like the hyperwarp effects better in Star Wars) would be the game changer. Fact is, going to 0.0 means lots of things but are limited to being a target or being fodder for targets. Give the game system-to-system point to point warp and the reign of the warp bubble is over the the "Great Wall of Carebear" comes tumbling down like the Berlin Wall. The reign of the combat probe begins and the blobs become split up into combat patrols, and any skirmish can be from small gangs to fleet fight bonanzas. I think a good time would be had by all. No "I WIN" button here. But in the present situation, leaving high sec is at best an "I BROKE EVEN" proposition, but usually an I LOSE button. Would it be that impossible for point to point system to system warp? CCP, SET US FREEEEEE!!!!!1!!!!!!
What part of ''this would make Eve a single player game'' don't you understand?
Softly schooling you one post at a time since 2011-10-27 |
Barbie D0ll
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
24
|
Posted - 2011.11.12 00:06:00 -
[152] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:CCP, SET US FREEEEEE!!!!!1!!!!!!
this is CCP we are talking about and they aren't about to set the prisoners free. poor poor CCP employees....
oh wait, are we talking about the players here? |
Jennifer Starling
Imperial Navy Forum Patrol
262
|
Posted - 2011.11.12 00:19:00 -
[153] - Quote
Serene Repose wrote:The great majority of EVE players do not find constantly fighting with no real opportunity to be creative (rather than destructive) a satisfying, enjoyable or productive way to spend time. As much as I sympathize I can-¦t wholeheartedly agree with the OP.
The thing is that most highsec `carebears` that I know don-¦t mind fighting at all. Nor do they mind losing ships in combat, even lots of them. That-¦s actually not the big problem.
The problem can be divided into a few points:
- `free PvP` in EVE is restricted to areas that are hard to reach and organizing a roam is very time consuming
- to get into PvP can take a very long time, you can even roam lowsec for hours without finding a fight
- losing implants when podded
- PvP in EVE usually isn't about equal chances but very much about mere numbers
- Security hits in lowsec
Now imagine there would be 1 vs 1 and 4 vs 4 arenas for frigate and cruiser hulls in some highsec systems where you wouldn't get a security hit except when you pod someone. You can immediately jump into action whenever you have time and chances are equal. Ask yourself how many 'carebears' would happily spend hours losing their ships for no other reason than the thrill and learning about PvP?
They'd definitely find constantly fighting with no real opportunity to be creative (rather than destructive) a satisfying, enjoyable or productive way to spend time. |
Just Lilly
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
2
|
Posted - 2011.11.12 00:37:00 -
[154] - Quote
Empire offers solo gameplay with both profit and no downtime, low, 0.0 and w-space does not.
EvE is an MMO, best experienced in a group with other players with the same goals. But not everyone is like that, i'm pretty sure there are tons of players who wants to do solo stuff.
So they are pretty much limited to Empire. |
Terminal Entry
New Fnord Industries
0
|
Posted - 2011.11.12 00:53:00 -
[155] - Quote
Jita Alt666 wrote:
The opportunities to be constructive in 0.0 far out weighs the opportunities to be constructive in empire.
That could very well be true, but reread what the OP said to understand why people will still stay in high sec.
To paraphrase you, "The opportunities to be destructive in 0.0 far out weighs the opportunities to be destructive in empire".
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Reilly Duvolle
Hydra Squadron
95
|
Posted - 2011.11.12 01:33:00 -
[156] - Quote
I'm not gonna pretend that my own experiences is applicable to everybody, but during my own journey I've had a few surprises regarding the sentiments expressed in this thread.
When I started out a few years ago I started out in highsec and stayed there for some time, doing mining, missioning, rattng (lol) and some basic T1 manufacture.
During this time I ventured once out to lowsec because of curiosity - and got ganked in a belt by a Hurricane withinh 3 minutes.
I joined a corp I liked the name of, only to find that they were essentially nullsec based. And had a war going on. Next time i went to Jita in my merlin i got killed on the station. Twice.
Dropped that corp, joined a new one, and life was peachy for about 2 weeks, when the corp got wardecced by a griefercorp which essentially tore us newbies a new one with their HACs and Recons. After a while, the corp more or less fell apart.
After a couple of months running aimlessly around in empire in my own corp - feeling bored and depressed - and getting ganked on lowsec gates twice - I finally decided to look for a way to learn how to PVP so I could a) defend myself and b) avoid unfavorable encounters.
So I joined a nullsec PVP corp. And learned so much stuff about game mechanics I didnt knew about it was pretty amazing. And I never left nullsec after that. I'm still there - with an army of highsec alts - because like the OP, I like to construct things as well as blow them up.
My first period in highsec I felt lost, bored and infuriated by all the griefers and people out to destroy my game, as I sure as hell didnt have any intention to destroy theirs. This all changed when I moved to null. After a while I knew what I was doing, I knew how to travel safely through hostile space, I knew how to avoid unfavourable encounters. I learned how to stay safe. I learned how to set up traps, and spring them, on overconfident griefers.
Coming back to highsec, suddenly those grifers, lowsec pirates and other scumbags wasnt so scary anomore. So - to all you highsec people that are not nullsec alts, but actual pure hiughsec players: Take a leap of faith. If you cant beat them, join them. U will be amazed how the game opens up for you. |
Morganta
Peripheral Madness The Midget Mafia
276
|
Posted - 2011.11.12 01:41:00 -
[157] - Quote
Reilly Duvolle wrote:good stuff.
+1
The American public's reaction to the change was poor and the new cola was a major marketing failure. The subsequent reintroduction of Coke's original formula, re-branded as "Coca-Cola Classic", resulted in a significant gain in sales, leading to speculation that the introduction of the New Coke formula was just a marketing ploy |
Celestine Polel
Without the Daystar
0
|
Posted - 2011.11.12 01:51:00 -
[158] - Quote
I'm amazed that there have been entire pages in this thread without the word 'casual' occuring.
The fact is that the casual player is often playing solo even if they are in a corp with other casual players (Freddy can't log in tonight 'cause one of his kids is sick, Jimmy and his missus went to the cinema etc.). They're not interested in diplomacy, CTAs or even SOV. They might be interested in POSes if they've got the capital for it but they're probably more interested in garnering enough isk for their next shiny acquisition.
"Don't fly what you can't afford to lose", right? In high-sec the more noobish players don't have to worry about losing their t1 fit drakes... And in all honesty they don't have the ISK reserves to shrug it off anyway. Every mil is a milestone for them. They need to be in space for weeks just to recoup the costs. While the more experienced players don't have to warp their marauders to a pos anytime a neut enters the system. There are approximately 5 and a half people logged in at the moment for every system in eve, which would be a lot of time wasted warping to and sitting in the POS or station.
I guess one route might be easy access to NPC null but it doesn't solve the problems either. As some-one said earlier "one neut in local doesn't matter if you've got a couple of buddies"... yeah the problem is: you are that neut and you are fair game to anyone nearby that also happens to have couple of buddies logged in. Perhaps in addition to easier NPC-null access might be stronger emphasis on exploration and then increased protection when you're in sites (could be for mission sites too). Null really isn't worth it for the casual players in any commodity you chose to mention - time, isk, stress, whatever.
I'm worried that focus on trying to make null-sec a tasty enough carrot to entice people from high-sec will not work. I'm worried that it will only make the entrenched null-sec alliances richer and their super-cap blobs larger. At the same time it that makes it harder for small groups to get a meagre foothold let alone a profit out of a move to null. If there need to be more isk sinks, so be it but the carrot needs to be reachable... not dangled in our faces and then whipped away and munched on by blobs of goons, or PL or whoever else happens to playing super serious alliance/coalition pvp spaceships. |
Reilly Duvolle
Hydra Squadron
96
|
Posted - 2011.11.12 02:18:00 -
[159] - Quote
Celestine Polel wrote:I'm amazed that there have been entire pages in this thread without the word 'casual' occuring.
I'll just counter with this: Yes, the big nullsec alliances are about CTAs and Sov. But in between the large powerblocks, there are plenty of smaller entities - usually basing in NPC null, where a casual playstyle is entirely possible. And that DID solve the problem - at least for me. |
Tanya Powers
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
182
|
Posted - 2011.11.12 02:22:00 -
[160] - Quote
Nova Fox wrote:TD;DR
Basically said that High Sec Players like to create not destroy.
This is not the case though there is much room for colonizing 0.0 and building something that would be talked for ages. There are very few things that come even close to what you can do out there and build out there. Then like all things in order to build you must find the ashes of before to build upon.
Basicly said, most of those grieffing there and "pvp" there just because they like Concorde and "safety" more than each single rookie or afk miner.
Change high sec to null like for a month or two and let's see how many uber high sec pvp gays or griefers will show their epeen.
I already know the answer: 0 |
|
Serene Repose
Perkone Caldari State
69
|
Posted - 2011.11.12 03:44:00 -
[161] - Quote
Tanya Powers wrote:Nova Fox wrote:TD;DR
Basically said that High Sec Players like to create not destroy.
This is not the case though there is much room for colonizing 0.0 and building something that would be talked for ages. There are very few things that come even close to what you can do out there and build out there. Then like all things in order to build you must find the ashes of before to build upon. Basicly said, most of those grieffing there and "pvp" there just because they like Concorde and "safety" more than each single rookie or afk miner. Change high sec to null like for a month or two and let's see how many uber high sec pvp gays or griefers will show their epeen. I already know the answer: 0 Uhhh.....right.
Smokestack lightnin' shinin' just like gold. |
Richard Hammond II
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
78
|
Posted - 2011.11.12 03:52:00 -
[162] - Quote
Velicitia wrote:Richard Hammond II wrote: They also have the downside of highsec ppl not having access to moon goo and making more than a billion a day, which I think is the larger issue here. Goons/0.0 ppl have basically unlimited resources for their fun, Highsec dont.
Its kinda like a DM game vs ppl with God Mode on
As the post above me has said, what with the amount on volume you lose having to tank your ship instead of running stuff that gets you better yield, and the lack of resources to get the minerals/ores to high sec to sell OR stations to process them, you make pretty much the same money as just one guy in a corp mining veld in high sec as you do just one guy mining ABC ores in 0.0. Sanctums make you less money than running a lvl 4 as well.
Well, not really. The person above you was doing it solo, so using that as an argument to not head to low is meh. Pulling Sov holding alliances in the general "northern" regions of the map (ignoring the goons). White Noise Raiden RAZOR Get off my lawn Fatal Ascension Tactical Narcotics Team SpaceMonkey's Alliance Fidelas (something ... the name is obscured by another alliance's) Gentleman's Agreement The Methodical Alliance and a few others that I can't read (damn png map) I'm sure *some* of them are big enough to have moongoo income, and need oxytopes, and don't like the goons ... So, one of them contacts empire miners in Gallente space. They agree on a lowsec ice system. Alliance provides the muscle, empire miners provide the oxytopes (or ice, whichever). Trouble with that is the stupid fact that all lowsec systems with ice appear to have stations as well (WTF CCP). edit -- alternatively, there is NPC nullsec with oxytopes that these guys could help set up a psuedo-safe system for a day or two...
None of the other nulsec alliances give a **** about high sec and/or dont see whats in it for them and/or are part of the massive super alliance DCF. so yeah theyre not shooting each other.
I was arguing that the highsec corps cant band together and fight them off as they dont have the resources as thats what you suggested in the first place.
Quote:As long as the majority of players see null and low sec as a sucker's bet populated only by those that intend to destroy everything creative players build, just to provide yucks for a minority of vocal (putting it nicely) vandals you will NOT see a major migration of hi sec players into low or null sec. Funny thing about intelligent people. They aren't stupid.
Read it and weep.
Unless that "majority" you were talking about was the 0.0 and low players too... and if THEY see 0.0 and null as a "suckers bet" um... what the hell are THEY doing IN 0.0 and low?
They hired actual clothing designers for WiS clothes "no wonder the monocle cost $80, they had to pay royalties" Screw "FiS" its called EVE CCP |
Richard Hammond II
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
78
|
Posted - 2011.11.12 03:55:00 -
[163] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Something to consider regarding Null Sec and it's residents.
Often a successful high sec based entity approaches a null sec entity to become a renter.
Once this happens the renter either fails to learn how to protect itself and it's interests, or it gains strength and experience sufficient to hold their given territory.
As time progresses, if the renters organization survives, it begins to attract a larger membership and greater wealth starts being generated for it's members.
Eventually they begin to feel the need to expand their borders, or at least solidify their holdings.
Finally they find themselves being approached by other empire based organizations for the purpose of seeking a rental agreement with them...
yeah I have yet to see this. The corps that are "renters" that Ive belonged to or had friends belong to never grew and had others rent from them, as the alliance we were renting from would have smashed us into nothingness had we even tried that.
Mostly it seems to work as a pyramid scheme lol
They hired actual clothing designers for WiS clothes "no wonder the monocle cost $80, they had to pay royalties" Screw "FiS" its called EVE CCP |
JitaJane
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
24
|
Posted - 2011.11.12 04:13:00 -
[164] - Quote
Velicitia wrote:Richard Hammond II wrote: They also have the downside of highsec ppl not having access to moon goo and making more than a billion a day, which I think is the larger issue here. Goons/0.0 ppl have basically unlimited resources for their fun, Highsec dont.
Its kinda like a DM game vs ppl with God Mode on
As the post above me has said, what with the amount on volume you lose having to tank your ship instead of running stuff that gets you better yield, and the lack of resources to get the minerals/ores to high sec to sell OR stations to process them, you make pretty much the same money as just one guy in a corp mining veld in high sec as you do just one guy mining ABC ores in 0.0. Sanctums make you less money than running a lvl 4 as well.
Well, not really. The person above you was doing it solo, so using that as an argument to not head to low is meh. Pulling Sov holding alliances in the general "northern" regions of the map (ignoring the goons). White Noise Raiden RAZOR Get off my lawn Fatal Ascension Tactical Narcotics Team SpaceMonkey's Alliance Fidelas (something ... the name is obscured by another alliance's) Gentleman's Agreement The Methodical Alliance and a few others that I can't read (damn png map) I'm sure *some* of them are big enough to have moongoo income, and need oxytopes, and don't like the goons ... So, one of them contacts empire miners in Gallente space. They agree on a lowsec ice system. Alliance provides the muscle, empire miners provide the oxytopes (or ice, whichever). Trouble with that is the stupid fact that all lowsec systems with ice appear to have stations as well (WTF CCP). edit -- alternatively, there is NPC nullsec with oxytopes that these guys could help set up a psuedo-safe system for a day or two... Primus: It sounds like it would be an awful lot of fun and I don't even mine. Secundus: Of course you would have to deploy a security element for the entire freaking route to and from to prevent every Yartard for a dozen systems from trying to gate-camp themselves a KM to **** it to. So you'd have to mine a gianourmous amount of ice to make the investment worth it.
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Alexandra Alt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
30
|
Posted - 2011.11.12 04:53:00 -
[165] - Quote
Nex apparatu5 wrote:Alexandra Alt wrote: This is my likes collector, I like to collect Likes, problem much ?
You appear to be doing it wrong.
I has a mission! |
Dirty Weegie
The Dirty Rejects Scelus Sceleris.
0
|
Posted - 2011.11.12 06:29:00 -
[166] - Quote
If you want industrial players to move to nullsec you need to make zydrine and megacyte harder to obtain in highsec. Mission runners reprocess most loot then sell the minerals. If you changed reprocessing so that no zydrine or megacyte is given out then the price would sky rocket. This in turn would mean the price of T1 mods and ships would also sky rocket. meaning the rewards for braving lowsec for the all important ores much much greater.
The only way you would beable to run an industrial corp at a profit would be lowsec and nullsec mining.
.... or prices will sky rocket and all the carebares will still be to scared to go to null and null alliances will just get richer. If you can't win fair... Cheat |
Terminal Entry
New Fnord Industries
0
|
Posted - 2011.11.12 06:46:00 -
[167] - Quote
Dirty Weegie wrote:If you want industrial players to move to nullsec you need to make zydrine and megacyte harder to obtain in highsec. Mission runners reprocess most loot then sell the minerals. If you changed reprocessing so that no zydrine or megacyte is given out then the price would sky rocket. This in turn would mean the price of T1 mods and ships would also sky rocket. meaning the rewards for braving lowsec for the all important ores much much greater.
The only way you would beable to run an industrial corp at a profit would be lowsec and nullsec mining.
.... or prices will sky rocket and all the carebares will still be to scared to go to null and null alliances will just get richer.
Fortunately mining isn't the be-all and end-all for an industrial player/corp! That is a stereotype.
I mean would you enjoy sitting in a mining barge, mining in 0.0? Doing so isn't all that safe either, even in high sec
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Dirty Weegie
The Dirty Rejects Scelus Sceleris.
0
|
Posted - 2011.11.12 07:06:00 -
[168] - Quote
Terminal Entry wrote:Dirty Weegie wrote:If you want industrial players to move to nullsec you need to make zydrine and megacyte harder to obtain in highsec. Mission runners reprocess most loot then sell the minerals. If you changed reprocessing so that no zydrine or megacyte is given out then the price would sky rocket. This in turn would mean the price of T1 mods and ships would also sky rocket. meaning the rewards for braving lowsec for the all important ores much much greater.
The only way you would beable to run an industrial corp at a profit would be lowsec and nullsec mining.
.... or prices will sky rocket and all the carebares will still be to scared to go to null and null alliances will just get richer. Fortunately mining isn't the be-all and end-all for an industrial player/corp! That is a stereotype. I mean would you enjoy sitting in a mining barge, mining in 0.0? Doing so isn't all that safe either, even in high sec
But the point i makes still stands... remove zydrine and megacyte from reprocessing and going to lowsec and null becomes way more profitable.
And I used to be a miner.. till i discovered the joy of autocannons If you can't win fair... Cheat |
Majuan Shuo
Sons Of 0din Fatal Ascension
3
|
Posted - 2011.11.12 07:09:00 -
[169] - Quote
"This obviates (Google it) itself "
when you write something like that - its another way of saying "I used a thesaurus to find a word I myself didn't get at first, but will use it in this post as well as point out how sophisticated it is to appear smarter than the riff raff."
OR
"I suck ****" "I believe the Winter expansion needs to be a huge success, and so they are giving us ice cream, and cake, and ice cream cake, and pizza, and hookers, and blow, an pizza. Any and everything they think players want and they can do by winter, they will stuff into this expansion." |
Kengutsi Akira
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
155
|
Posted - 2011.11.12 09:02:00 -
[170] - Quote
Terminal Entry wrote:Dirty Weegie wrote:If you want industrial players to move to nullsec you need to make zydrine and megacyte harder to obtain in highsec. Mission runners reprocess most loot then sell the minerals. If you changed reprocessing so that no zydrine or megacyte is given out then the price would sky rocket. This in turn would mean the price of T1 mods and ships would also sky rocket. meaning the rewards for braving lowsec for the all important ores much much greater.
The only way you would beable to run an industrial corp at a profit would be lowsec and nullsec mining.
.... or prices will sky rocket and all the carebares will still be to scared to go to null and null alliances will just get richer. Fortunately mining isn't the be-all and end-all for an industrial player/corp! That is a stereotype. I mean would you enjoy sitting in a mining barge, mining in 0.0? Doing so isn't all that safe either, even in high sec
its actually SAFER in 0.0 than highsec right now thanks to the gankers lol
i find that funny
Majuan Shuo wrote:"This obviates (Google it) itself "
when you write something like that - its another way of saying "I used a thesaurus to find a word I myself didn't get at first, but will use it in this post as well as point out how sophisticated it is to appear smarter than the riff raff."
OR
"I suck ****"
when you write something like that - its another way of saying "Im a ******* moron and to assuage my ego need to make fun of people more intelligent than me to make myself feel better."
OR
"HURRRRRRRRRDURRRRRRR" https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=255722#post255722
My stance on WiS |
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Celestine Polel
Without the Daystar
1
|
Posted - 2011.11.12 09:03:00 -
[171] - Quote
Reilly Duvolle wrote:Celestine Polel wrote:I'm amazed that there have been entire pages in this thread without the word 'casual' occuring.
I'll just counter with this: Yes, the big nullsec alliances are about CTAs and Sov. But in between the large powerblocks, there are plenty of smaller entities - usually basing in NPC null, where a casual playstyle is entirely possible. And that DID solve the problem - at least for me.
I entirely agree with you, I've there myself... and I've also been in sov holding alliances where following escalations into NPC space wasn't worth the bother (the locals relished the opportunity to pounce on the hapless, lone grunts from the ~evil neighbourhood sov-holders~ ) . As it stands at the moment it is possible for a casual play in NPC null. However, I just don't see it as sustainable (or profitable) in the current mechanics for a 23/7 influx of 5-10 players per system to NPC null. Too much additional conflict and risk with too little profit margin (which goes down too because of the increased population... and you don't have the benefits of ihubs out there like the sov holders, so even if you're all NAPed you can't sustain the same number of players per system anyway) ... but it still seems like the best place for people to go.
I don't know if its just me, but when the CSM and CCP talk about attracting people to and changing nullsec, its very much like they're talking exclusively about the sov-holding parts. |
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CCP Phantom
C C P C C P Alliance
149
|
Posted - 2011.11.12 09:26:00 -
[172] - Quote
Off topic posts removed. Please stay on topic, thank you. CCP Phantom - German Community Coordinator |
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Suddenly Boom
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2011.11.12 11:54:00 -
[173] - Quote
Try to force highsec players into nullsec and that will be the end of EVE as a mainstream mmo. Most of those highsec players arn't going to move to nullsec, they'll just move on to another game. EVE will join the likes of Darkfall with an empty gameworld and a few rabid pvpers hunting for "noobs" to kill. |
Elric Astrius
MarSec Industries Gold Star Alliance
19
|
Posted - 2011.11.12 12:00:00 -
[174] - Quote
Suddenly Boom wrote:Try to force highsec players into nullsec and that will be the end of EVE as a mainstream mmo. Most of those highsec players arn't going to move to nullsec, they'll just move on to another game. EVE will join the likes of Darkfall with an empty gameworld and a few rabid pvpers hunting for "noobs" to kill.
Darkfall seemed to copy shadowbane series which was good for Ubisoft but I think in context to what your saying you cant force anyone's hand but perhaps if the system guided them down a path sure it would have to be included in a huge installment over a period of time but if it were to bring in more people and perhaps hand guide some into these areas without the risk being there and then perhaps making them aware of what happens could change things. However, I do see your point.. I have been doing alot of heavy thinking on these matters, and seeing things from both sides of the coin really makes a difference, sure I actively fought and chewed out hardcore PVP people, however though i feel distain for them still a tad, I can see where people come from but now the question asked is how can we package these concerns to CCP so that they can implement their judgment and hopefully repair some of the damage done here. |
MaiLina KaTar
Katar Corp
24
|
Posted - 2011.11.12 13:07:00 -
[175] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:It was tried, and fell to the fact that some people just can't get past ganking - and then those people, being sociopaths, did the usual politics, hiding behind the "EvE is harsh" argument, and other forms of self aggrandizing bloviations, dramaboi routines, and standard trappings of the Neckbeard Universe. See this is what people around here just don't understand.
It doesn't have anything to do with the people. The reason it failed was because Eve as a game is lacking the gameplay features required to make such stuff work.
Don't blame yourselves. Blame CCP.
Suddenly Boom wrote:Try to force highsec players into nullsec and that will be the end of EVE as a mainstream mmo. Most of those highsec players arn't going to move to nullsec, they'll just move on to another game. EVE will join the likes of Darkfall with an empty gameworld and a few rabid pvpers hunting for "noobs" to kill. As a matter of fact most of the "highsec players" are also "nullsec players". People around here like to talk in black and white because it makes it easier for them to go and flame others and make arguments that are bound to fail right from the get go. Reality is much more grey. You have some people who never leave highsec, for whatever reason, while others clonejump constantly, while yet others spend most of their time in null. Some may rarely ever leave their station on one character, then log into another one to roam nullsec.
You will never get anywhere with the stereotyped thinking rampant on these boards. |
Iceni
Angel Constellation
46
|
Posted - 2011.11.12 13:39:00 -
[176] - Quote
Serene Repose wrote:...those who are contemptuously labeled "Care Bears."
What - you never heard of Carebear Pride week? |
hired goon
Legio Prima Victrix Imperius Legio Victrix
6
|
Posted - 2011.11.12 13:46:00 -
[177] - Quote
Serene Repose wrote:
Read it and weep.
Few things.
Firstly, there is a lot of venom, and many insults, in your ill-considered and subjective rant. So you look even more like a fool for prefacing with "it is not meant as an insult"
Secondly, "more intelligent and widely versed people" vs "self-imagined thugs" is inaccurate. I find that people who enjoy pvp are much more balanced, are more outgoing (I have never met a carebear at an eve meet), and more productive in real life. People who need creative games are sedimentary or directionless in life and cannot take responsibility for themselves. This can be seen in the manner of their respective outlets; 'destructive' players need destruction in their games because they are creative in their life, where as those who are going nowhere in their life require compensation in digital form.
Thirdly, "The satisfaction of seeing an intricately planned and well-executed creation reach fruition is much, much better." could only ever be spoken by someone with no experience in planning an ambush. It has already been established that you've only ever been in an NPC corp, so this part is fairly obvious.
Though you may be right that attempting to "force" carebears into nullsec/lowsec would simply cause them to quit, I personally see that as no problem. Despite common belief, industry would not shut down. This is simply because PvPers can do industry whenever they need to. Carebears cannot do PvP. We will build our own ships.
Without PvPers Eve would become space-WoW. Without carebears, eve would become ... just better.
Because there would be no more forum whining. |
hired goon
Legio Prima Victrix Imperius Legio Victrix
6
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Posted - 2011.11.12 13:52:00 -
[178] - Quote
And another thing. You are not a "creative player", you are a just a different type of PvPer. You don't make stuff in Eve so you can stand back afterwards and think "I built that. That's cool." - otherwise you'd be playing X: Beyond the Frontier or Minecraft. You are playing a MMOG and are trying to make as much profit as you possibly can. But why? You can't spend that money in real life. The only purpose it serves is to impress your digital friends and buy more digital "things" to show off with. That is ego, buddy; the same thing that propels people like me to shoot each other in the butt.
Or oh, I'm sorry, do you enjoy mining? Or hauling materials? Or clicking "build"? That's a fine button actually, yeah. One of my personal favourites.
So we are both PvPers, just with different styles. Mine is an adrenaline rush, yours is monotonous. So your OP is just looking more and more like a jealous whine. |
MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University Minmatar Republic
72
|
Posted - 2011.11.12 14:11:00 -
[179] - Quote
hired goon wrote:attempting to "force" carebears into nullsec/lowsec would simply cause them to quit, I personally see that as no problem. Despite common belief, industry would not shut down. This is simply because PvPers can do industry whenever they need to. Carebears cannot do PvP. We will build our own ships. Your posts are filled with the same old hate, disdain, and vitriol for carebears. You'll claim that you don't hate them. But your vitriol proves otherwise. You rather see these people leave the game and yet act repulsed when they reply to your rheotic with animosity. People like you are the ones to prove anti-social and sadistic individuals. But some how it makes you feel better to project your feelings of inadequecies on your carebear enemies.
The truth is that carebears could care less about you and what you do. Except that people like you make it a habit to bother, taunt, and prod others for pleasure. And when they finally lash out at you you move back and call them immature and childish. Just like a bully from school.
Honestly, I rather you get your kicks from a video game (by using it as a tool) than get it perhaps from a different more dangerous venue. So I can't really be too harsh on you. But seriously, the ones in need of some serious professional attention is you. But I understand that it will be difficult for you to see it that way. |
hired goon
Legio Prima Victrix Imperius Legio Victrix
6
|
Posted - 2011.11.12 14:39:00 -
[180] - Quote
Okay, you are right. I admit there was some hate in my replies and I apologize. But I just got off reading the OP and was successfully trolled by him. I am always open to constructive discussion on this topic and do think a more "integrated" eve will be a better experience for everyone.
The more I think about it though the more it seems impossible. The second post in this thread was much better than the OP and made me consider things from a new angle; mainly that it seems there are two games being played, almost like two servers in Eve. Many hisec players never leave, and many nullsec players journey to hisec only to buy stuff, or log in with their missioning alt. I mean come on... you essentially may as well log into a different game. Hisec and nullsec seem to have a relationship almost like that of Eve and Dust 514 - they have links that affect each other but are still different games.
So it seems like trying to make a Civilization 4 player move over to Call of Duty by reducing the "benefits" of one vs the other. The civ players wouldn't switch - they'd just install Total War instead. They are different players playing different games.
However, I still believe the rewards from hisec should be reduced, if simply to encourage hisec players to explore the game. I firmly believe that lowsec/nullsec/wormhole gameplay should be experienced; as it is truly exciting beyond hisec play (which I cannot ever return to after leaving forever in 2007) and would bring added value to the subscription of any player. |
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