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Gunsnroses
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Posted - 2006.04.20 21:45:00 -
[91]
 Originally by: NeoOhm
A idea to fix this overpriced t2 stuff is to add a few NPC¦s that manufactures t2 stuff for a resonable price, that way the prices in the galaxy should be more balanced.
Right now, we can see in the Insurances, that t2 ships are extremly expensive.
The Hawk it 3 mill payback and it it 18+ mill on the market.
Or the Cerberus that is 220+ mil and 14 mill payback.
Plz make some npc¦s or release more Blueprints so less greedy ppl can have a chance to make good ships for good prices.
Ty!
The God Damn producers do not set the prices, its the buyers such as your self.
Your the reason they cost so much, stop buying them prices will go down.
Simple supply and demand for most t2.
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MajorPMS
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Posted - 2006.04.20 21:50:00 -
[92]
I dont think thats true Gunsandroses. People been sayin that for months now . Once prices drop a little people buy them . "Oh cheap cerb finally! woohoobuy buy buy!" . Prices are just going up and up . Thought it was obvious.
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Arkanor
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Posted - 2006.04.20 22:07:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Mr Vapor
I'm sorry, but not every 2 month noob should be in a BS. Cruisers should take a bit to work for and get like they did back in the day when the MOA was a feared ship to go against in battle. Frigates should be the most flown ships.
That's why they added bigger ships, not even everyone a year old is in a Dreadnaught.
Originally by: Mr Vapor
And before you freak out, thinking "ZOMG, 3 year old player with tons of ISK!!!"
I own 2 BS that I worked for
Playing a game =/= work.
Originally by: Mr Vapor
learn to STFU and put the time in if you want that nice shiny ship.
Originally by: Mr Vapor
This game isn't about grinding
Come again?
________________________________________________
Originally by: Imperial Baddour
I just lost my ship, and dont feel like playing anymore!
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.04.20 22:20:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Arkanor
Originally by: Mr Vapor
This game isn't about grinding
Come again?
It is ironic that the man's post you were quoting talked all about work, and then said it wasn't grinding, but no, the game isn't about grinding 
Grinding in EVE exists so that those who are not creative enough to earn ISK through more interesting means still have a means of making a living.
[23] Member: Official Forum Warrior
What's with the blue robots? Click my sig.
RAWR!11 Sig Hijack!11 - Imaran |
Al Thorr
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Posted - 2006.04.20 22:27:00 -
[95]
Sigh and I remember the days when producers got flamed for selling their Cerbs at 75Mil .
If you rely on insurance to fly a ship then you should not go any where near T2.
As the old adage goes - If you have to ask how much you cant afford it.
Regards
Al Thorr
"You cant polish a turd" - The new rendered font is living proof.
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Kira Natel
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Posted - 2006.04.20 22:39:00 -
[96]
T2 is fast becoming a standard and not a luxury item. The playerbase is maturing. People want to play with all their favorite toys but not be continually gouged. CCP for the most part seems slow to react to the changing dynamics of the playerbase. And there is always that nagging feeling that CCP favors certain players,corps and alliances; whether true or not.
A novel solution would be to devalue all ISK by a factor of ten. 2B = 200 mil 200mil=20 mil. Prices would drop and everybody would be complaining about the same thing. 
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Netto
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Posted - 2006.04.20 22:49:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Vincent Rainbow
I dont think they are overpriced.
They are meant to be a luxury type item, not something that every Tom, **** and Harry can afford to lose on a daily basis. People have more isk now than they used to have, so the price of decent stuff SHOULD go up.
This is about as dead of a horse as a horse can get but this comment still makes me chuckle.
And exactly WHO decided that HAC's are meant to be luxury items?
Don't get me wrong, I don't mind the high HAC prices because they make them WAY more fun to blow up, but the luxury comment is just ridiculous.
Netto
Celestial Fleet - We care. |
Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.04.20 22:57:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Netto
Originally by: Vincent Rainbow
I dont think they are overpriced.
They are meant to be a luxury type item, not something that every Tom, **** and Harry can afford to lose on a daily basis. People have more isk now than they used to have, so the price of decent stuff SHOULD go up.
This is about as dead of a horse as a horse can get but this comment still makes me chuckle.
And exactly WHO decided that HAC's are meant to be luxury items?
Don't get me wrong, I don't mind the high HAC prices because they make them WAY more fun to blow up, but the luxury comment is just ridiculous.
Well by definition they're a luxury item, as appears to be intended by CCP.
Even with top industry skills and good PE research on the blueprint, there are a mere 120-140 HACs made per day at most. Thousands of cruisers, frigates, and battleships are probably lost every day. They are a luxury item, simply because due to the low supply there are not enough HACs for everyone to fly them the way they would any other ship.
[23] Member: Official Forum Warrior
What's with the blue robots? Click my sig.
RAWR!11 Sig Hijack!11 - Imaran |
Netto
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Posted - 2006.04.20 23:24:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Harisdrop
Vets with 30 mill skill points dont think tech II is overpriced.
34 mil and climbing and I know there is a problem with supply and demand (I.e. they cost too much).
Broad sweeping statements ftl.
Netto
Celestial Fleet - We care. |
Netto
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Posted - 2006.04.21 00:15:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: Netto
Originally by: Vincent Rainbow
I dont think they are overpriced.
They are meant to be a luxury type item, not something that every Tom, **** and Harry can afford to lose on a daily basis. People have more isk now than they used to have, so the price of decent stuff SHOULD go up.
This is about as dead of a horse as a horse can get but this comment still makes me chuckle.
And exactly WHO decided that HAC's are meant to be luxury items?
Don't get me wrong, I don't mind the high HAC prices because they make them WAY more fun to blow up, but the luxury comment is just ridiculous.
Well by definition they're a luxury item, as appears to be intended by CCP.
Even with top industry skills and good PE research on the blueprint, there are a mere 120-140 HACs made per day at most. Thousands of cruisers, frigates, and battleships are probably lost every day. They are a luxury item, simply because due to the low supply there are not enough HACs for everyone to fly them the way they would any other ship.
I think there is something to be said for HAC's to cost a premium, but I think that's different then hacs costing 200+ mil.
My interpretation of CCP's intention was that they wanted them to be leet, and for higher sp or spec'd people, but I also think the system itself is flawed and CCP knows it. At least, this is the impression I got from them when I talked to them in Vegas.
It's similar to what's happening with housing in Ireland. A population bubble that is looking for something that's limited, the price goes through the roof in extremely short time. Now in a market that should be elastic, the current method of t2 BPO release and production doesn't allow for that elasticity. They are going to introduce mechanisms into the game that allows for it. Ergo, one could surmise that they are not intended to be luxury items, like faction BS', but merely high end weapons of war to be used by specialized warriors.
Just a theory, but certainly makes more sense then the knee-jerk 'OMG it's a luxury item, like a yacht with guns!'
Netto
Celestial Fleet - We care. |
0bsession
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Posted - 2006.04.21 02:28:00 -
[101]
I have the perfect fix... make ALL t2 bpos limited runs and limited time to produce. CCP can figure out those numbers, but I'd say a Cerb bpo would be like 50 runs and/or 3 months. After 50% of the runs are made or 3 months have past, then another bpo is seeded. This would keep a constant lottery going.
... and the market reasonable. There's NO REASON why some nice t2 bpo should make insta-billionaires to ONE person.
CCP also needs to put out corp lottery t2 drops... make corps profit, not ONE person.
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235ppo01
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Posted - 2006.04.21 02:55:00 -
[102]
Originally by: 0bsession
I have the perfect fix... make ALL t2 bpos limited runs and limited time to produce. CCP can figure out those numbers, but I'd say a Cerb bpo would be like 50 runs and/or 3 months. After 50% of the runs are made or 3 months have past, then another bpo is seeded. This would keep a constant lottery going.
CCP is already going to release limited bpc's in kalai..
... and the market reasonable. There's NO REASON why some nice t2 bpo should make insta-billionaires to ONE person.
why not??? I bust my arse to run missions and train skills and now fate be falls me and I get a shinny new bpo..
CCP also needs to put out corp lottery t2 drops... make corps profit, not ONE person.
And who will controll it? CEO, CFO, Main producer?? idea impossible to implament, just asking for more corp thefts... err wait yeah I like that, join corps and steal their tech 2 bpo's
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UGWidowmaker
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Posted - 2006.04.21 04:44:00 -
[103]
ive had an agent runer for almost 1+ year i have insane amount of rd points and i get nothing. so when i finaly get one you say im not allowed to make ****load o isk on it ??? dudes i worked 1+ year to get one.. i charge whatever posible.. some have gotten bpo very easy and some will never get one.. the system is ****** up! and ccp knows it, and they are working on various solutions.. but lets not blame the ones selling t2 because i know ANY here would do excactly the same if they had one heck so would i ! so stop whining because you dont have any bpos and apreciate some wanna haul t2 stuff around for houres to make it posible for you to get some t2 mods..
I will make u into biosource... |
Andrue
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Posted - 2006.04.21 10:00:00 -
[104]
I think the equipment prices are fine. The stuff is supposed to be the best. If everyone could gain access to it the market for T1 would vanish. That would mean T2 would cease to be special and everything that T1 represents would be thrown away.
For T2 to have meaning we need to have T1 and that means T1 must remain mainstream and T2 must remain more costly. The prices for T2 equipment are not really all that bad. I recently outfitted an Apoc with T2 kit and it only cost 30mil. For a player with the skills to use such kit that shouldn't be any great hardship. Heck - I earned that back with four hours mining in a .4 with said Apoc.
T2 ships I'm not so sure about. They are very expensive. OTOH I've not flown one yet. If they give the kind of boost that T2 equipment does then I think the price is acceptable.
Neither CCP nor the players will appreciate seeing T1 rendered worthless. T2 needs to stay expensive.
--
(Battle hardened miner)
[Brackley, UK]
WARNING:This post may contain large doses of reality. |
Jenny Spitfire
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Posted - 2006.04.21 11:55:00 -
[105]
Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 21/04/2006 11:59:54
Another thought.
T2 market is fine. T2 market has not reached equilibrium yet. With the current T2 scare, the reason for the ever increasing prices are because of over-buying. If everyone can only own 1 T2 item at any time, we would be seeing cheap stuffs in the market.
How many owns more than a T2 ship type in hangar? Maybe like 2 Cerberus but still buying a few more because afraid to lose out in the market.
How many owns too many redundant T2 equipment in hangar? Read carefully, redundant.
I am guessing, everyone has T2 stocks to last for at least a few months to a year.
Paranoia + Scare + T2 == Prices go up
Just my 1 ISK.
----------------
RecruitMe@NOINT!
RAWR!11 Sig Hijack!11 - Imaran |
Uggster
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Posted - 2006.04.21 12:04:00 -
[106]
Another thought.
HAHAHAHAHAHA
Poor people should not have nice ships.
I have all the T2 stuff I want.
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Grainsalt
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Posted - 2006.04.21 12:46:00 -
[107]
Heh..
Personally I sold my Eagle at a huge profit, and decided to stick to my lovely tech I raven and train BS V instead and use T2 equip.. At least when I die now I get full insurance.. Is quite funny to see a 200m cerb go pop and get a 10m payout
BabyBlue:- "I propose CCP make USB powered genital electrodes compulsory for pod pilots, activated when hull < 5%. " |
Steppa
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Posted - 2006.04.21 12:51:00 -
[108]
IMHO, one of the biggest reasons T2 ships cost so much at the moment is because of the fact that you can't really defend a POS.
There are a couple of absolutely, we-wipe-our-asses-with-extra-dreadnaughts alliances out there that can clean areas of POS structures at will. This severely hampers investment into moon mining and high-end mineral mining.
CCP needs to give the defenders a bit of a boost.
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Kaeten
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Posted - 2006.04.21 13:06:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Steppa
IMHO, one of the biggest reasons T2 ships cost so much at the moment is because of the fact that you can't really defend a POS.
There are a couple of absolutely, we-wipe-our-asses-with-extra-dreadnaughts alliances out there that can clean areas of POS structures at will. This severely hampers investment into moon mining and high-end mineral mining.
CCP needs to give the defenders a bit of a boost.
I suppose you have never heard of that pos's can be built in 0.5 and higher, meaning yes, they can be defended well enough. You would need a fleet ot take a pos out liek that.
Another thing, I thin kthis thread is abit more pointing towards hac's as atm they are really *** in price.
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Balazs Simon
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Posted - 2006.04.21 13:14:00 -
[110]
There is no problem with t2 prices.
Rich can buy it, rest can't. This is how it should be. DoN't e-bay all your isk, than you can buy things. So simple.
Pay for eve n RL cash, not with GTC, and you can buy T2.
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POST WITH YOUR MAIN!
This post is my personal opinion. It does not represent the standpoint of the HUN Corporation in any way.
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Tachy
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Posted - 2006.04.21 13:23:00 -
[111]
Originally by: Kaeten
I suppose you have never heard of that pos's can be built in 0.5 ...
but wont be able to do any moon mining, nor will there be any of the minerals needed for T2 component building past atmos, evaps and sillis.
--*=*=*--
Megadon
CCP wanted a well known artist and celebrity to test the new font so it's approval would be well known. They got Ray |
0bsession
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Posted - 2006.04.21 13:30:00 -
[112]
Originally by: 235ppo01
Originally by: 0bsession
I have the perfect fix... make ALL t2 bpos limited runs and limited time to produce. CCP can figure out those numbers, but I'd say a Cerb bpo would be like 50 runs and/or 3 months. After 50% of the runs are made or 3 months have past, then another bpo is seeded. This would keep a constant lottery going.
CCP is already going to release limited bpc's in kalai..
... and the market reasonable. There's NO REASON why some nice t2 bpo should make insta-billionaires to ONE person.
why not??? I bust my arse to run missions and train skills and now fate be falls me and I get a shinny new bpo..
CCP also needs to put out corp lottery t2 drops... make corps profit, not ONE person.
And who will controll it? CEO, CFO, Main producer?? idea impossible to implament, just asking for more corp thefts... err wait yeah I like that, join corps and steal their tech 2 bpo's
Of course their CEO would control it, and the whole corp would know about it. If the CEO can't handle the management, then he shouldnt be CEO. If he's not trusted, then he shouldn't be CEO.
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Tehyarec
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Posted - 2006.04.21 13:54:00 -
[113]
My take is that indeed the prices can be as they are, if the players wish to pay as much (and yeah, I plan on getting many T2 ships in the future myself), but there really should be better insurance coverage in some non-exploitable way. It's not like if you insure a Lexus you only get the raw material's worth back either.
Now, I assume there's a similar "problem" for faction ships too. It's a bit of a shame, like with T2 ships it makes them slightly less useable when they're so expensive yet you can't get much of an insurance return.
If the market is supposedly so realistic as player-driven, insurance should be equally "realistic" as well.
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Galea Wildfang
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Posted - 2006.04.21 13:57:00 -
[114]
Easiest fix would be ..
make BPC's of T2 equipment buyable from research agents with RP ..
People will buy those BPC's who are totally scarce .. and will avoid those that have a huge supply. That should bring the prices down some for the overprized equipment. The stuff will still be alot more expensive than T1 and range more in the area of Meta Items (and t2 have their drawbacks, like fitting requirements for guns/launcher compared to T1).
Flamming leads to anger, anger leads to pain, pain leads to suffering, and suffering leads to teh Dark Side !
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Yilan Cheran
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Posted - 2006.04.21 14:11:00 -
[115]
Just wait when T3 comes trickling in. Or when more COSMOS items start hitting the market, or simply more named items. T2 will come around... many named items come very close to T2 in effectivity, I like to think (but mabe I am just naive nub, who can tell)
Anyway, I find the T2 equipment that I need affordable enough- it's just, why fly the best of the best in no time at all?
PS: and CCP heavily interfering in the market will put a terrible dent in the players' trust of same, which would be one of the worst possible disasters that could happen to Eve.
PPS: weren't there threats that T2 complain-threads would cause little kittens to be brutally killed?
The kittens! Think of the kittens 
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.04.21 14:21:00 -
[116]
Originally by: Galea Wildfang
Easiest fix would be ..
make BPC's of T2 equipment buyable from research agents with RP ..
People will buy those BPC's who are totally scarce .. and will avoid those that have a huge supply. That should bring the prices down some for the overprized equipment. The stuff will still be alot more expensive than T1 and range more in the area of Meta Items (and t2 have their drawbacks, like fitting requirements for guns/launcher compared to T1).
I posted a similar idea not long ago. Basically the BPCs would be very expensive in terms of RPs (like 8k RPs for a Deimos BPC), and thus would not give great profit to the researchers, but would boost the very limited supply just enough to lower prices. People would of course only "buy" BPCs for the most expensive items, thus making the system adapt to the market automatically.
[23] Member: Official Forum Warrior
What's with the blue robots? Click my sig.
RAWR!11 Sig Hijack!11 - Imaran |
Malena Panic
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Posted - 2006.04.21 15:58:00 -
[117]
Originally by: Andrue
For T2 to have meaning we need to have T1 and that means T1 must remain mainstream and T2 must remain more costly.
Even if T2 BPOs were seeded in the open NPC market (note that I am not necessarily advocating this), T2 would be more costly than T1 for the following reasons:
1. Higher materials cost
2. More varied materials required for production
3. Higher production skill levels required
4. Higher initial investment cost
5. Relative scarcity as a result of 1-4
5. More congested production lines as players realize the higher profit margins available to production
It seems fairly reasonable to assume that T2 prices will always be higher than T1 prices, and profit margins accordingly.
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Kaylana Syi
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Posted - 2006.04.21 16:02:00 -
[118]
People don't seem to realize that ability and feasability are being restricted in EVE via DEV tools. The DEVs originally loved the BPC system in the beginning. It was good. As our wallets grew off mining phat rock and chaining 45k cruisers in 0.0 for hours it turned out that the BPC system was borked. Unlimited copies destroyed the need for BPOs. So they put in number of runs but still retained the copy times.
Tech 1 Copy Time up to Battleships is a throwback to the old system even on new ships. Tech 2 Blueprint research was the first step to correct this problem. The DEVs give you the ability to still copy but the feasability is lackluster. Capital Ship Construction is a hybrid model of t1 and t2. You need components to build them but those components are in themselves tech 1 and only need minerals. However, the copy time for a BPC is insane if you compare them to tech 1 Battleships.
The moral of the story is the DEVs are correcting, even sometimes overcorrecting, inherent flaws of the original system. As this game evolves the DEVs are thinking about how to keep the market competitive, long lasting, and interesting. Tech 2 has the blessing and curse of being player driven. There are nothing wrong with the prices if things are balanced. We see some variables to tech 2 production are infact not balanced. Thus, they have stated they will be enabling countermeasures to ensure balance.
One thing you must allow history to dictate is that what the DEVs do to balance *WILL* be foundational and last years to come so they tread lightly. Don't expect drastic changes overnight especially while people have tools to aquire expensive goods or just out class them with modules and skill with t1 variants. And finally said changes that will happen will likely be foundation for t3 so stop busting their balls.
Originally by: "Oveur"
I don't react to threats any better than you do
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Malena Panic
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Posted - 2006.04.21 16:03:00 -
[119]
Originally by: Yilan Cheran
PS: and CCP heavily interfering in the market will put a terrible dent in the players' trust of same, which would be one of the worst possible disasters that could happen to Eve.
Red herring. CCP already heavily interfere in the market, both in setting initial conditions and in changing them in response to user demand (eg RAM BPs).
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Petwraith
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Posted - 2006.04.21 16:39:00 -
[120]
snip, click and sweep.....
Thread cleaned, please refrain from ranting, trolling, flaming, spamming and stay on topic. Any more problems will bring my newly created Lock Bat down upon this thread.
---
Originally by: Nikolai Nuvolari
CONCORD is as cunning and ruthless as a demented epileptic with a rocket launcher.
I nerfed my own sig 
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