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NeoOhm
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Posted - 2006.04.20 07:37:00 -
[1]
A idea to fix this overpriced t2 stuff is to add a few NPC¦s that manufactures t2 stuff for a resonable price, that way the prices in the galaxy should be more balanced.
Right now, we can see in the Insurances, that t2 ships are extremly expensive.
The Hawk it 3 mill payback and it it 18+ mill on the market.
Or the Cerberus that is 220+ mil and 14 mill payback.
Plz make some npc¦s or release more Blueprints so less greedy ppl can have a chance to make good ships for good prices.
Ty!
WTF?! |
Malken
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Posted - 2006.04.20 07:39:00 -
[2]
i totally agree.
 Quote:
[05:17:46] Obiareus > freindlies dock or safespot
[05:17:51] Obiareus > YOU CANNOT WIN
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snowpanther
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Posted - 2006.04.20 07:40:00 -
[3]
o dear  flames will contiune shortly im guessing
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NeoOhm
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Posted - 2006.04.20 07:42:00 -
[4]
Edited by: NeoOhm on 20/04/2006 07:42:30
-Lucky that you where wearing that helmet sir
-Have we stopped?
-Yes sir!
-Good, smokem if u got them! :D
WTF?! |
SonOTassadar
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Posted - 2006.04.20 07:50:00 -
[5]
No.
Thread closed.
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Balazs Simon
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Posted - 2006.04.20 07:55:00 -
[6]
Originally by: NeoOhm
A idea to fix this overpriced t2 stuff is to add a few NPC¦s that manufactures t2 stuff for a resonable price, that way the prices in the galaxy should be more balanced.
Right now, we can see in the Insurances, that t2 ships are extremly expensive.
The Hawk it 3 mill payback and it it 18+ mill on the market.
Or the Cerberus that is 220+ mil and 14 mill payback.
Plz make some npc¦s or release more Blueprints so less greedy ppl can have a chance to make good ships for good prices.
Ty!
Things corst as much as ppl are willing to pay for it.. belive me, if noone would buy cerberus for 220 mill, than no one would selling it for that price.
CCP stated it several time t2 will stay 100% player manufactured.
What you suggesting is like remove all 0.0 form EVE.
It is one of the basic concepts in EVE, if CCP change it, tehy ruin the game.
BTW, we have a search function now ! and this thread is the 103241354 one about this.
If you don't knwo how market work, do not whine about it.
And no, I don't have HAC bpo.. I wish I had :) because they are poverpriced :)
-
POST WITH YOUR MAIN!
This post is my personal opinion. It does not represent the standpoint of the HUN Corporation in any way.
- |
The TX
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Posted - 2006.04.20 07:57:00 -
[7]
lol - there are more threads about T2 being overpriced than there are threads started by me.
Usul Faust:as it stands there aren't enough pictures ob baboon's arses on the forum imo. This must change. |
Tachy
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Posted - 2006.04.20 07:58:00 -
[8]
Insurance covers the base minerals used for building the T2 ships at npc base mineral price.
T2 ships consist of a handful base minerals, some rare minerals, T2 components based on a lot of moon minging (POS business) and a T1 ship.
Overpriced?
It is the price the market will pay.
Want T2 cheap? Check nagamazon or some other source of cheap T2 ships.
T2 production differs a bit from T1 production. Production is much slower, and you need a lot of stuff that just doesn't appear in your hangar. The infrastructure needed to get a T2 production line running constantly is more than a mining ship, a hauler and okay standing with the next station owner.
There is a limited production capacity. There is a fixed number of BPO. There is a fixed number of Moons with the needed minerals. There are some losses between the low sec moon mining POS and the buyers in high sec. POS require quite a lot of dedication to be successfull from a business perspective.
Oveur (the producer) stated that there will be more of some T2 BPO.
All boils down to: Don't wanna pay the price - don't buy.
--*=*=*--
Megadon
CCP wanted a well known artist and celebrity to test the new font so it's approval would be well known. They got Ray |
Vincent Rainbow
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Posted - 2006.04.20 08:03:00 -
[9]
I dont think they are overpriced.
They are meant to be a luxury type item, not something that every Tom, **** and Harry can afford to lose on a daily basis.
People have more isk now than they used to have, so the price of decent stuff SHOULD go up.
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Jenny Spitfire
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Posted - 2006.04.20 08:03:00 -
[10]
/me dreams of her shinny T1 ships, hugging a Caracal to bed. 
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RecruitMe@NOINT! |
Arkwright
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Posted - 2006.04.20 08:11:00 -
[11]
Maybe they aint overpriced but the insurance payouts too little
Saying that, if T2 gear is supposed to be a luxury, maybe the insurance payout is so small to give eve a little isk sink.
If you cant afford to lose it, dont fly/use t2 gear or use t1/named gear instead.
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SpaceDrake Taleweaver
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Posted - 2006.04.20 08:12:00 -
[12]
They cost what some (fools) are willing to pay for them.
Stop buying them, and the price will go down.
---
What good are actions if there's no one to tell the tale afterward?...
Player of the character "Amarii Oulasangeri". |
Zeonog
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Posted - 2006.04.20 08:12:00 -
[13]
don't buy them? 
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Mia Archer
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Posted - 2006.04.20 08:14:00 -
[14]
if they cost more than you think they are worth then dont buy them
if they cost as much as you think they are worth buy them
in either case, stop whining
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Lori Carlyle
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Posted - 2006.04.20 08:24:00 -
[15]
People say don't buy them at that price.. well what about large corps or alliances that can afford them at that price therefore keeping the prices high and out of reach of the normal solo players.
PINK PINK PINK PINK PINK ERISGREEN
Eris <3 Meh! |
Tachy
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Posted - 2006.04.20 08:32:00 -
[16]
Lori:
If it really bugs you that much, grab your corp and drag them into 0.0 and make them mine like there's no tomorrow and collect the cash.
You could make them practice with POS setups and supplying all along, and probably alot of PvP practice.
Within a few weeks your corp should be able to buy the ships or even a T2 ship BPO when one pops up in an auction.
I know that I don't wanna be among the T2 cruiser+ building elite because I'd have to have a lot of pilots working hand in hand to keep the factories running all the time.
My little ammo shop requires some dedication, but I can do other stuff next to it.
--*=*=*--
Megadon
CCP wanted a well known artist and celebrity to test the new font so it's approval would be well known. They got Ray |
Vincent Rainbow
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Posted - 2006.04.20 08:32:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Vincent Rainbow on 20/04/2006 08:32:44
Originally by: Lori Carlyle
People say don't buy them at that price.. well what about large corps or alliances that can afford them at that price therefore keeping the prices high and out of reach of the normal solo players.
They pay tens or hundreds of billions for the bpos.
If you would like to do the same, then offer the goods at charity prices, go ahead.
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Sub rose
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Posted - 2006.04.20 08:35:00 -
[18]
Originally by: NeoOhm
A idea to fix this overpriced t2 stuff is to add a few NPC¦s that manufactures t2 stuff for a resonable price, that way the prices in the galaxy should be more balanced.
Yeah ... please please please do this .... imagine the money that'll be made buying the limited NPC supply up and reselling them for player manufacturer prices *drool*
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F'nog
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Posted - 2006.04.20 08:43:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Sub rose
Originally by: NeoOhm
A idea to fix this overpriced t2 stuff is to add a few NPC¦s that manufactures t2 stuff for a resonable price, that way the prices in the galaxy should be more balanced.
Yeah ... please please please do this .... imagine the money that'll be made buying the limited NPC supply up and reselling them for player manufacturer prices *drool*
Though it would be a useful ISK sink.
But it's not gonna happen, and shouldn't.
Originally by: Bl4zer
But, cmon, this is the Eve forums, we don't let facts get in the way of pointless speculation.
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Lori Carlyle
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Posted - 2006.04.20 08:44:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Vincent Rainbow
Edited by: Vincent Rainbow on 20/04/2006 08:32:44
Originally by: Lori Carlyle
People say don't buy them at that price.. well what about large corps or alliances that can afford them at that price therefore keeping the prices high and out of reach of the normal solo players.
They pay tens or hundreds of billions for the bpos.
If you would like to do the same, then offer the goods at charity prices, go ahead.
and there are only a few BPO out there, so somehow i don't really think that a holder of one would let it go that often. or maybe we should all just go to ebay and buy the isk needed to get one. for some players spending hours saving for one cuz thay can only play for 1-2 hours a night or less.
1. Yes there using in game mechcanics to charge that much
2. Ebaying the isk *might* get your account removed
3. We could just not buy them
the problem is someone is buying them, possibley a corp or alliance that don't have a BPO but can afford to buy them per unit. either way the player base sets the market price and atm the market price is high.
so to sum up and if you need more info just take a look at the worlds history
PEOPLE ARE STUPID.
The people that buy them are stupid
The T2 market is stupid
The T2 Lotto is stupid
*Personal view not that of my corp or it's members*
PINK PINK PINK PINK PINK ERISGREEN
Eris <3 Meh! |
Sensor Error
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Posted - 2006.04.20 08:46:00 -
[21]
not another one
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE!!!
------------------------------------------
Now run along and play with your dolls...
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d'hofren
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Posted - 2006.04.20 08:47:00 -
[22]
There are a lot of very niave answers in this thread.
T2 is over priced. Limited production output combined with high target audience is one reason. Ease of price fixing due to the limited number of bpo, (on the earlier ships and modules), is another reason.
The T2 market is being further distorted by the current ease of cash to isk conversion via GTC sales this means that anyone who wants isk has an easy way to obtain it. See the current price of t2 ammo BPO's for proof on that front.
However fix insurance? nope T2 is supposed to be an isk sink.
The best proposal to solving the whole darned disaster is to allow all t2 bpc's to become free market items bought via lp trade ins.
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
Galactic Exploration and Mining - Web and T II Shop
(Including Cerbs)
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Lori Carlyle
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Posted - 2006.04.20 08:51:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Tachy
Lori:
If it really bugs you that much, grab your corp and drag them into 0.0 and make them mine like there's no tomorrow and collect the cash.
You could make them practice with POS setups and supplying all along, and probably alot of PvP practice.
Within a few weeks your corp should be able to buy the ships or even a T2 ship BPO when one pops up in an auction.
I know that I don't wanna be among the T2 cruiser+ building elite because I'd have to have a lot of pilots working hand in hand to keep the factories running all the time.
My little ammo shop requires some dedication, but I can do other stuff next to it.
It does get my back up as i've been in corps that are just a small close knit player base that enjoy the game but they would need to give massive time to EvE that due to RL they cannot. sure we could go to 0.0 like i have been in both this char and my other accounts and personaly i found it boring and dull. i have nor see a reason to head back out there.
PINK PINK PINK PINK PINK ERISGREEN
Eris <3 Meh! |
Doxs Roxs
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Posted - 2006.04.20 09:41:00 -
[24]
In my opinion the price is not the problem, the problem is the insurance!
The insurance should be based on what you paid for the ship. To ensure that insurance frauds dont ruin things the payout might also be dependent on the average market price of the ship.
I still think that it is rediculous that you pay a 100% insurance and just get a 10-20% refund...
ISK sink or not, it is way off...
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Ashraaf
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Posted - 2006.04.20 09:47:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Ashraaf on 20/04/2006 09:47:57
Originally by: Doxs Roxs
The insurance should be based on what you paid for the ship. To ensure that insurance frauds dont ruin things the payout might also be dependent on the average market price of the ship.
I build a ship for 35M, is sell it 95B, Insure it, blow it and got lot of money :)
so it will be the end of the game very very quickly :)
Average price market is not a reality, for such a limited amount of item, average could change everyday, with a 95B on 10 items average is 9.5 :)
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Obmud
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Posted - 2006.04.20 09:53:00 -
[26]
Rise 'em more! Rise em mooore!
-----------------------
This signature got altered because it was way to sexy and uber. If you want to know why don't ask. We're still horny. |
Doxs Roxs
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Posted - 2006.04.20 09:59:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Doxs Roxs on 20/04/2006 10:00:41
Originally by: Ashraaf
Edited by: Ashraaf on 20/04/2006 09:47:57
Originally by: Doxs Roxs
The insurance should be based on what you paid for the ship. To ensure that insurance frauds dont ruin things the payout might also be dependent on the average market price of the ship.
I build a ship for 35M, is sell it 95B, Insure it, blow it and got lot of money :)
so it will be the end of the game very very quickly :)
Average price market is not a reality, for such a limited amount of item, average could change everyday, with a 95B on 10 items average is 9.5 :)
Oups... It was a bad idea...
There should be some way of ensuring that its not exploitable without having ****ty returns on the insurance.
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Iratus Caelestis
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Posted - 2006.04.20 10:00:00 -
[28]
Eve expanded a lot, a lot of people became able to fly t2 ships. More competition means that the prices go up.
You saw this with hacs where the price was low to start off with because only a few people could fly them. Fast forward a year and loads of people can now fly them so the price rocketed.
The solution is probably two fold, they either need to introduce more bp's or reduce the time t2 takes to manufacture. This to reflect the doubling of population in the last year, no-one loses any money because more ships can be built so the manufacturers have more profit opportunity not less.
That is probably the greater part of the problem, a Heavy Assault Cruiser takes a day and a half to make and too many people can spend 100m a day on losses and not worry about it.
The secondary resolution would be the release of T3. As us older players max out T2 skills to Level 5 these older richer folks would be able to jump on the Tech 3 wagon , thus leaving tech 2 to the people that perhaps haven't or cannot yet spend 30 days training things like Heavy Assault Ships to level 5 and that reduced competition for ships will reduce the price.
In summary its us old players that ruin the theory at present. Our latant bank balances, combined with high skill points and an ability to make money faster means that many of us aren't too bothered about spending 200m on T2 ships and that's what does need to be looked at, not putting in arbitary artifical price restrictions that ruin the base on which Eve was founded.
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.04.20 10:04:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 20/04/2006 10:04:19
CCP has said they are not going to change the system. Especially by putting T2 on market at NPC prices. At most they will add a BPC rewards system to raise supply on the most undersupplied items and add some more BPOs.
To quote Niaski's sig:
"That's a damn good milkshake. I don't know if its worth 5 dollars, but its a damn good milkshake. Tech 2: Its like a milkshake."
[23] Member: Official Forum Warrior
What's with the blue robots? Click my sig.
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Quaren
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Posted - 2006.04.20 10:20:00 -
[30]
the big problem is really that the number of players has almost doubled in the last year but the number of t2 bpos are still the same.
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DeGrand
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Posted - 2006.04.20 10:36:00 -
[31]
Nothing *has* to be done, altho I agree that it would be nice if supply went up enough for prices to drop.
Eventho I can afford 200mil a pop HAC`s..I just refuse to buy em..and have so eversince they reached 100mil, you dont have to fly them, theres alternatives.
Theres pros and cons to a pricechange as well, I get a really big smile on my face when a HAC bites the dust. That smile wouldnt be so big if they would be reasonably priced.
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Nelson Vandermark
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Posted - 2006.04.20 10:40:00 -
[32]
Just buy isk of ebay problem sovled. tbh I think most ppl do that because how the market is syndicated. but like in real life at moment with pertol prices paying $60AU to fill up my car a week is getting a bit too out of hand.
-
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Boonaki
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Posted - 2006.04.20 10:45:00 -
[33]
220 mil for a cerb? Damn I get em for 50 mil a pop... /hug BoB
WTB Sig, 50 mil, eve mail me and I'll tell ya what I want. |
Jenny Spitfire
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Posted - 2006.04.20 10:48:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Boonaki
220 mil for a cerb? Damn I get em for 50 mil a pop... /hug BoB
How do I join BoB?
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RecruitMe@NOINT! |
Miss Overlord
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Posted - 2006.04.20 10:48:00 -
[35]
the reason they are so expensive is because the alliances hae brought some of them up restricting supply to their members and now the rest are left to fight over price levels.
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James Lyrus
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Posted - 2006.04.20 10:51:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Quaren
the big problem is really that the number of players has almost doubled in the last year but the number of t2 bpos are still the same.
The big problem really is that too many people think they _need_ HACs
--
We are recruiting
We sell carriers. |
Miss Overlord
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Posted - 2006.04.20 10:51:00 -
[37]
u gotta be a PVP pro and also be part of the borg
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Jenny Spitfire
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Posted - 2006.04.20 10:52:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Miss Overlord
u gotta be a PVP pro and also be part of the borg
I am a good meatshield and very collective too. I have own an Ibis, everything else to my corp.
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RecruitMe@NOINT! |
Miss Overlord
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Posted - 2006.04.20 10:55:00 -
[39]
be a meatshield u must fly a titan u need. Mmm be good PVP u must
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Deja Thoris
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Posted - 2006.04.20 11:01:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Boonaki
220 mil for a cerb? Damn I get em for 50 mil a pop... /hug BoB
We know. You dont have to troll every thread telling us about your e-peen.
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Oosel
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Posted - 2006.04.20 11:06:00 -
[41]
simple solution is do not buy them.....also dont join the 0.0 space/alliance bandwagon so what you wont get the hac you want theres still tons of t1 stuff you can have a lot of fun with and counter to what every 0.0 player would have you beleive you can hang around in empire and have masses of fun without having to suck to any major alliance and play the game how you want at your own pace
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Hast
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Posted - 2006.04.20 11:09:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Nelson Vandermark
Just buy isk of ebay problem sovled. tbh I think most ppl do that because how the market is syndicated. but like in real life at moment with pertol prices paying $60AU to fill up my car a week is getting a bit too out of hand.
heh, what a gem, I think I'm gonna keep this one 
Ebaying doesent really solve anything, especially not HAC prices...
I cheat in poker |
Deja Thoris
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Posted - 2006.04.20 11:11:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Hast
Originally by: Nelson Vandermark
Just buy isk of ebay problem sovled. tbh I think most ppl do that because how the market is syndicated. but like in real life at moment with pertol prices paying $60AU to fill up my car a week is getting a bit too out of hand.
heh, what a gem, I think I'm gonna keep this one
Ebaying doesent really solve anything, especially not HAC prices...
True, just buy GTC's, thats what all the cool kids do.
We have some t2 / GTC moguls in game now. Go CCP!
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Mr Vapor
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Posted - 2006.04.20 11:13:00 -
[44]
I never post on this crap because I don't really see the point, but I'd like to finally say something on this.
T2 ships are not overpriced. T1 ships are underpriced.
I'm sorry, but not every 2 month noob should be in a BS. Cruisers should take a bit to work for and get like they did back in the day when the MOA was a feared ship to go against in battle. Frigates should be the most flown ships.
Then you would not see the mega blob BS Fleets. Then you would see more teamwork to get things done. Prices should go up.
And before you freak out, thinking "ZOMG, 3 year old player with tons of ISK!!!"
Think again.....
I have less than 50 mil in my wallet currently. I fly what I can afford to lose (a basic rule that all the WoW converts can't get their head wrapped around). I fly frigs tons, I own 2 BS that I worked for, I own several cruisers for PvP and I insure my ships.
IMO, the BS should cost the 200-300 mil they used to cost. Cruisers should cost the 10-20 mil they used to cost. Tech 2 ships should remain the same if not higher in cost, and whiners should learn to STFU and put the time in if you want that nice shiny ship.
If everyone is so uber then what's the damn point? This game isn't about grinding and getting a level 60 wizardpaladinorcslayerwithamagicspoon. It's about social interaction, politics, teamwork and goals.
Welcome to EVE. It's not for tards.
/siggy war hero |
Kryss Darkdust
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Posted - 2006.04.20 11:20:00 -
[45]
Originally by: NeoOhm
A idea to fix this overpriced t2 stuff is to add a few NPC¦s that manufactures t2 stuff for a resonable price, that way the prices in the galaxy should be more balanced.
Right now, we can see in the Insurances, that t2 ships are extremly expensive.
The Hawk it 3 mill payback and it it 18+ mill on the market.
Or the Cerberus that is 220+ mil and 14 mill payback.
Plz make some npc¦s or release more Blueprints so less greedy ppl can have a chance to make good ships for good prices.
Ty!
T2 stuff is basically the best you can do in the game short of unique rare drop items, faction rewards or dev releases like the Guardian Verox. The price of T2 stuff should be completetly outragous and personly I think its still waaaay too cheap. I've been playing for two months and I can already easily afford tech II ships and I don't even have the skills to fly them yet.
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Antzor
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Posted - 2006.04.20 11:22:00 -
[46]
Edited by: Antzor on 20/04/2006 11:23:40
Edited by: Antzor on 20/04/2006 11:23:28
Hey heres an idea, make money and buy them. Not everything is SUPPOSED to be cheap :|
Speaking of which, devs I can't afford a BS right now, can you please make them cheaper?
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Kaeten
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Posted - 2006.04.20 11:22:00 -
[47]
Originally by: SonOTassadar
No.
Thread closed.
I bet you own one of the hac bp's and are making a ****load of em
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Lo3d3R
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Posted - 2006.04.20 11:26:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Lo3d3R on 20/04/2006 11:26:42
the tech II market is insanly high priced...
for those people who say: "oh its supply and demand just like the real world"  I say like the real world my foot.
+ they are probaly totally biased having BPO's themseleves or have strings attached one way or the other AND YOU BLOODY WELL KNOW IT.
ahem, so we need allot more tech II BPO's
I feel better now.
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Jenny Spitfire
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Posted - 2006.04.20 11:29:00 -
[49]
Sighs, topic of the month... more T2 outcry.
Topic of next month, It-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named is waaaaaaaaaaaaaay overpowered. Devz plz do something.
1337 speak?
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RecruitMe@NOINT! |
Mr Vapor
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Posted - 2006.04.20 11:33:00 -
[50]
Jenny, you're soooooo hawt.
/siggy war hero |
Iratus Caelestis
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Posted - 2006.04.20 11:45:00 -
[51]
Still think the manufacture time is too high on them. Long term its impossible to support a growing playerbase through that system as if people can't see themselves progressing, by getting T2 ships etc, then they'll just stop playing.
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eLLioTT wave
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Posted - 2006.04.20 11:53:00 -
[52]
lets also make concord protect everyone in 0.0 like in 1.0 and.... also make it so everything is free like on the test server, then everyone will be happy right?
(honestly go play another game please you dont belong here) |
odium alpha
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Posted - 2006.04.20 12:06:00 -
[53]
IMHO I doubt decreasing manufactoring or increasing BPO's will have any impact on the prices.
As long as people are willing to buy them for 200mill they will always be 200mill regardless of what happens.
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Steven Dynahir
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Posted - 2006.04.20 12:23:00 -
[54]
Since I have a T2 ship BPO, I think that T2 market is fine. (Altho we should start a cartel on that ship, the 500% markup price is way too low).
---
Sell orders
Recruitment
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.04.20 12:28:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Lo3d3R
the tech II market is insanly high priced...
for those people who say: "oh its supply and demand just like the real world" I say like the real world my foot.
+ they are probaly totally biased having BPO's themseleves or have strings attached one way or the other AND YOU BLOODY WELL KNOW IT.
ahem, so we need allot more tech II BPO's
I feel better now.
Target Painter IIs are an incredible 300k ISK.
They cost way too much. I can't afford to put one on my apoc--they should cost 150k ISK or less!
/not
"The T2 market" is actually mostly underpriced. People whine about 3 or 4 ships and items and generalize their whines to the entire system. Its like saying that "all cars explode and are unreliable" when only talking about the Ford Pinto.
[23] Member: Official Forum Warrior
What's with the blue robots? Click my sig.
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Iberi
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Posted - 2006.04.20 12:49:00 -
[56]
About supply and demand in Eve:
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=326296
Please, it is reality. Such practice is forbidden in any civilized country.but not in Eve.
We do not need NPC manufacture we need high concurrency in t2 market. I.e. full liquidation of t2 BPO and replacement them with t2 BPC. Afaik, CCP is planning something like this. I hope that CCP could correctly calculate number of BPC required by community...
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.04.20 12:51:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Iberi
About supply and demand in Eve:
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=326296
Please, it is reality. Such practice is forbidden in any civilized country.but not in Eve.
It said on the EVE box when you bought it: "hypercapitalistic economy."
This means, among other things, no socialistic controls such as antitrust measures.
[23] Member: Official Forum Warrior
What's with the blue robots? Click my sig.
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Baldour Ngarr
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Posted - 2006.04.20 12:55:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: Iberi
About supply and demand in Eve:
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=326296
Please, it is reality. Such practice is forbidden in any civilized country.but not in Eve.
It said on the EVE box when you bought it: "hypercapitalistic economy."
This means, among other things, no socialistic controls such as antitrust measures.
It also means, among other things, ability to spy on the bpo holders, figure out the secrets and make a bpo in competition. That doesn't happen.
The fundamental problem is shortage of bpo's. The player base has .. what? tripled? quadrupled? ..since those originals came out, but the number of blueprints hasn't gone up. That's non-capitalist, artificial restriction of a market, right there. You want hypercapitalism, wipe out the protectionism.
________________________________________________
"I tried strip mining, but I lost, and it's cold flying around in space naked." |
Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.04.20 13:00:00 -
[59]
Originally by: NeoOhm
The Hawk it 3 mill payback and it it 18+ mill on the market.
Yep, T2 insurance dosn't even cover mineral costs. This is deliberate.
Next!
"The Human eye is a marvelous device, with a very little effort it can overlook all but the most glaring injustice" - Quellchrist Falconer |
Tresh Keen
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Posted - 2006.04.20 13:07:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Quaren
the big problem is really that the number of players has almost doubled in the last year but the number of t2 bpos are still the same.
Yep, and it is strange that CCP dont change that - remember the R.A.M. changes? CCPs reaction was extremly fast and they seeded R.A.M. BPO's - but the HAC BPOs or the Cap Rec 2 - they do nothing. For me its looks like the T2 BPO owner (HACs and co) do have a good relationship to CCP - a better then the rest of us.
I dont buy anymore any Cap Recs 2 and i stopped skilling for HACs.
Just that you understand me - i dont care about high price if there is a fair releation between BPO and Players - and i think we all agree that this relation ship is not fair anymore (with the older T2 BPO).
Cheers, Trash
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Jobie Thickburger
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Posted - 2006.04.20 13:22:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Maya Rkell
Originally by: NeoOhm
The Hawk it 3 mill payback and it it 18+ mill on the market.
Yep, T2 insurance dosn't even cover mineral costs. This is deliberate.
Next!
Amen! What would be the point if insurance covered the cost of a T2 ship! No risk-No Gain. Losing 15 mil on that hawk, reason enough to be careful and not careless with it isn't it.
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Lord WarATron
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Posted - 2006.04.20 13:33:00 -
[62]
There is no problem with people charging what they like. Prices will meet market demand. End of story.
There is a problem, however, with the length of time it takes to make a T2 BPC. It takes longer to make a copy than it is to build the original.
---
Slot 10 Akemons Modified 'Noble'Zet 5000 implant +8% Armour
FREE |
Ominus Decre
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Posted - 2006.04.20 13:59:00 -
[63]
Supply and demand.
Sure I would like an opportunity to get something like a rare t2 BPO although just becasue I _don't_ have one doesn't mean I should get special compensation.
I have no problem with the prices as they appear for some t2 items.
Wasn't sometihng expressed about a form of "Reverse Engineering" that would fix this?
Oh, and what the hell is with the attitude of players lately? There's been alot more of the "GIVE ME!!1" attitudes floating around lately. Did they close a WoW server?
Boobies:  |
Jobie Thickburger
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Posted - 2006.04.20 14:14:00 -
[64]
Just had an odd realization:
Gmail log in page: Has a counter that shows how many GB of Mail space you have.
HAC BPO Holders: Use a similar counter... Every time a "Nerf The Prices" Post is made, and a reply to it, The counter goes up, as do the prices.....
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Iberi
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Posted - 2006.04.20 14:26:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: Iberi
About supply and demand in Eve:
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=326296
Please, it is reality. Such practice is forbidden in any civilized country.but not in Eve.
It said on the EVE box when you bought it: "hypercapitalistic economy."
This means, among other things, no socialistic controls such as antitrust measures.
Hm, you should learn a bit economic before post nonsense. Antitrust, anticartel and antimonopol regulations lead Western World to the prosperity. At the moment at least. These regulations keeps The Market in The Free and Concurrent state.
On the other hand, almost 100% monopolizationa in soviet economy destroyed Soviet Union. In Soviet Union nobody cares about The Market. Expecially about The Free Market, because the freedom is not for the slaves.
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.04.20 14:28:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Iberi
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: Iberi
About supply and demand in Eve:
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=326296
Please, it is reality. Such practice is forbidden in any civilized country.but not in Eve.
It said on the EVE box when you bought it: "hypercapitalistic economy."
This means, among other things, no socialistic controls such as antitrust measures.
Hm, you should learn a bit economic before post nonsense. Antitrust, anticartel and antimonopol regulations lead Western World to the prosperity. At the moment at least. These regulations keeps The Market in The Free and Concurrent state.
On the other hand, almost 100% monopolizationa in soviet economy destroyed Soviet Union. In Soviet Union nobody cares about The Market. Expecially about The Free Market, because the freedom is not for the slaves.
Did I ever say such regulations were bad for an economy? No, of course they're beneficial.
But "hypercapitalistic" means no such regulations.
[23] Member: Official Forum Warrior
What's with the blue robots? Click my sig.
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D'onryu Shoqui
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Posted - 2006.04.20 14:40:00 -
[67]
they should have done it so you can only own 1 of each t2 bpo per account.
to stop people buying as many as the same bpo as possible to make a monopoly.
i know alot of t2 manufactures have 2 accounts but it would still help.
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Jobie Thickburger
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Posted - 2006.04.20 14:50:00 -
[68]
Originally by: D'onryu Shoqui
they should have done it so you can only own 1 of each t2 bpo per account.
to stop people buying as many as the same bpo as possible to make a monopoly.
i know alot of t2 manufactures have 2 accounts but it would still help.
Anyone who owns a T2 ship BPO would have been crazy to sell it. If they Did sell it, Probally noone out there would have enough money to buy it.
The problem (if you call it that) is that only a limited number of BPOs were allowed out. Now only so many people own them, and everyone wants one.
Do you really mean to say if you couldn't get your hands on 2 HAC BPOs you'd give one up because you didn't want a monopoly?
BP Envy, Its a bad thing. Besides, I don't think the prices are that outragous. I Understand paying about 20 mil for an Assault frig, By the time you have the skills to fly it well, You should be able to afford it anyway. Training to fly, and Training to fly well are two different things.
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Iberi
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Posted - 2006.04.20 15:00:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Did I ever say such regulations were bad for an economy? No, of course they're beneficial.
But "hypercapitalistic" means no such regulations.
ok. Anyway, socialistic sounds a bit negative.
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Jason Marshall
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Posted - 2006.04.20 15:25:00 -
[70]
Edited by: Jason Marshall on 20/04/2006 15:29:04
Edited by: Jason Marshall on 20/04/2006 15:28:33
COMMUNISM IS THE ANSWER....i am the people....all the BPO's belong to the people...not for the people or used by the people , but they belong to the people....
...I am the government...you can have equal shares of bread and milk, I WILL take thoose BPO's and use them for the greater good. The greater good of the government, which is for the people. look utopian everyone gets what they need, i get what i wan...need
I love eve everyone, its capatalism at its finest. I love the diversity and getting off topic on its forums. But like everyone else said its a player driven capatalistic econemy supply and demand. Case closed if you would like a less diverse experienced go play a linear game...im told WoW is a great linear game.
(Im not using communism to describe any one country just the 'vauge' definition of communism, all i ngood fun.)
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Rift Scorn
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Posted - 2006.04.20 15:45:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Sensor Error
not another one
great! now i need to clean my monitor!
Your friendly clone activation expert, free of service to the eve community since '03! |
Tresh Keen
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Posted - 2006.04.20 15:59:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Jobie Thickburger
BP Envy, Its a bad thing. Besides, I don't think the prices are that outragous. I Understand paying about 20 mil for an Assault frig, By the time you have the skills to fly it well, You should be able to afford it anyway. Training to fly, and Training to fly well are two different things.
But thats not realy the point, CCP has seeded a lot of T2 BPO based on half of the players we have now. The other problem, we dont know how many of the BPO's are not in use because some players have stopped playing or do make a break.
So CCP just have to seed again some BPO's - the rest is game mechanic.
Cheers, Trash
P.S. and please dont say T2 copy or production has to be faster - NO - we need more BPO.
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Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2006.04.20 16:01:00 -
[73]
Funny, we never were producing the Eagle fulltime as there simply weren't any buyers, I guess all the whiners wants their Cerberus for cost, at Jita, delivered fully fitted, with instructions...
Remind me about The Maze.
I'm Danton Marcellus and I approve of this message. |
Tresh Keen
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Posted - 2006.04.20 16:11:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Danton Marcellus
Funny, we never were producing the Eagle fulltime as there simply weren't any buyers, I guess all the whiners wants their Cerberus for cost, at Jita, delivered fully fitted, with instructions...
Maybe your price is just to high?
You call us whiners? I just remember to the R.A.M. - where all the producers where whining around because they have to buy them and can not repair them anymore. And wow - you have to travel to search and buy the R.A.M. - ... why was CCP so fast in seeding out the R.A.M. BPO?
I think CCP has a formula how many BPO they should seed - and they should check the numbers every 6 Month....
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Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2006.04.20 16:20:00 -
[75]
Yeah 90-100M, 120M at worst, those must've been extortion prices by comparison, what does the other HACs go for these days?
Next!
Remind me about The Maze.
I'm Danton Marcellus and I approve of this message. |
D'onryu Shoqui
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Posted - 2006.04.20 16:36:00 -
[76]
Edited by: D''onryu Shoqui on 20/04/2006 16:37:19
Quote:
Do you really mean to say if you couldn't get your hands on 2 HAC BPOs you'd give one up because you didn't want a monopoly?
if i could get 2 hac BPO's i wouldnt give one up, im not stupid.
but imo it would be better if they did limit 1 t2 bpo of each kind to an account.
isnt there only 4-6 hulk bpo's in existance and someone has 2 or something crazy like that.
someone else is suposed to have around 80% of the cap charger II bpo's.
maybe it wont be so much of an issue when they eventually bring in reverse engineering but i guess it depends on how that works. im hoping it will allow you to have a chance of getting a limited run BPC of whatever u reverse engineer with another skill that determines the length of the bpc.
like reverese enginerring skill could be 5% percent chance per level of getting a BPC.
then some other skill could determine how many runs that bpc can potentially be.
something like , 10% chance of +2 runs added to the bpc per level with the max run bpc you could possibly get beeing a 10run.
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Tresh Keen
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Posted - 2006.04.20 16:42:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Danton Marcellus
Yeah 90-100M, 120M at worst, those must've been extortion prices by comparison, what does the other HACs go for these days?
And? I do own a useless T2 CM BPO - some BPO are better then the other ones - that life, thats market - but its hard for me that you dont understand the diffence between (just examples, i dont know the number)
12 BPO for 50'000 Accounts
12 BPO for over 100'000 Accounts
if you go out, buy all BPO and own them - then its you right to sell it for whetever you want to have. But there should be at least enough BPOs around - in this example - another 12 BPO.
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Harisdrop
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Posted - 2006.04.20 16:45:00 -
[78]
Tech II bpo what are they?
Are the items soo exspensive your mission whoing is doing soo bad that you have to buy a deimos everyweek. You probally need to replace your tech II ship every day since your 2 million skill points are enough to fly the ship. So for the poor sap with no skills yup it hurts to own a tech II ship.
Vets with 30 mill skill points dont think tech II is overpriced.
--------------------------
After being cloned over forty times I found that my looks get better and better.
I am no one but a mouse in a house of cats.
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Kretin Arnon
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Posted - 2006.04.20 16:46:00 -
[79]
I find meta and faction items way overpriced.
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Nathan Grey
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Posted - 2006.04.20 16:55:00 -
[80]
QFT: Dark Shikari's comments about oversupply of most T2 items being oversupplied. Having any trouble finding Miner 2s? How about T2 blasters? An Ares at a reasonable price? A pack of Hobgoblin IIs? How about Sensor Booster II? Or -- if you'd ever use one -- Thermic Resistence Plating II?
Eve isn't fair. Get over it. Stop whining that players, both buyers and sellers, are setting the prices for T2 toys. THIS IS BY DESIGN.
I'd write more, but I'm listening to Nyphur and working on Progress and Poverty.
----------------------------------
Industrialist. I build it. You buy it. You break it and buy another one.
Market domination through ingue ferrogue.
(I did this and could have stopped it.) |
Jowen Datloran
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Posted - 2006.04.20 16:57:00 -
[81]
Edited by: Jowen Datloran on 20/04/2006 16:58:38
Originally by: Danton Marcellus
Yeah 90-100M, 120M at worst, those must've been extortion prices by comparison, what does the other HACs go for these days?
Next!
I just checked this up with the prices for HAC's in Domain and it seems right. Some HAC's clearly "suffers" from being fotm. The price difference and availability between Eagles and Cerberus is laughable.
The real title of this topic should have been: "Cerberus Way overpriced (Devs plz do someting so I can get that pretty thing cheap)"
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Main as main can be. |
Baldour Ngarr
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Posted - 2006.04.20 19:13:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Ominus Decre
Supply and demand.
Wrong. It's just demand; the supply is fixed, and fixed way too low, for most HACs. That's what causes the problem.
In a realistic economy, if building HACs were this profitable, more people would find ways to bulid them, increasing supply and therefore bringing the price back down again. In the artificial EVE economy, that's impossible because CCP don't introduce any extra blueprints.
________________________________________________
"I tried strip mining, but I lost, and it's cold flying around in space naked." |
mirel yirrin
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Posted - 2006.04.20 19:17:00 -
[83]
Originally by: NeoOhm
A idea to fix this overpriced t2 stuff is to add a few NPC¦s that manufactures t2 stuff for a resonable price, that way the prices in the galaxy should be more balanced.
Right now, we can see in the Insurances, that t2 ships are extremly expensive.
The Hawk it 3 mill payback and it it 18+ mill on the market.
Or the Cerberus that is 220+ mil and 14 mill payback.
Plz make some npc¦s or release more Blueprints so less greedy ppl can have a chance to make good ships for good prices.
Ty!
And you think Whining about it on the forums will make THE SLIGTEST bit of difference?
It's CCP's game, they will design it as they see fit. Only a few times have the listened to Players.
NPC's will never, ever, EVER, ever, EVER, EVER, ever, EVER, EVER, ever, ever,ever vend TII stuff.
Ever.
EVER EVER EVER EVER.
---------------------------------
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NeoOhm
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Posted - 2006.04.20 20:07:00 -
[84]
Originally by: mirel yirrin
Originally by: NeoOhm
A idea to fix this overpriced t2 stuff is to add a few NPC¦s that manufactures t2 stuff for a resonable price, that way the prices in the galaxy should be more balanced.
Right now, we can see in the Insurances, that t2 ships are extremly expensive.
The Hawk it 3 mill payback and it it 18+ mill on the market.
Or the Cerberus that is 220+ mil and 14 mill payback.
Plz make some npc¦s or release more Blueprints so less greedy ppl can have a chance to make good ships for good prices.
Ty!
And you think Whining about it on the forums will make THE SLIGTEST bit of difference?
It's CCP's game, they will design it as they see fit. Only a few times have the listened to Players.
NPC's will never, ever, EVER, ever, EVER, EVER, ever, EVER, EVER, ever, ever,ever vend TII stuff.
Ever.
EVER EVER EVER EVER.
I did not whine, if u get my post to be a whining one u wrong.
I just posted what i think, and the insuranse should be fixed or release some more bpo¦s.
Not whining, loving the game.
So stop whine about ppl that not whine, whine :)
WTF?! |
mirel yirrin
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Posted - 2006.04.20 20:10:00 -
[85]
Ok, listen to me for a second.
If you have one or two NPC's that vend TII for a reasonable price, people will market camp them, buy up the stock and sell it for higher prices.
Thats why no TII vending npc's exist.
---------------------------------
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Angelus Pyre
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Posted - 2006.04.20 20:14:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Baldour Ngarr
Originally by: Ominus Decre
Supply and demand.
Wrong. It's just demand; the supply is fixed...In the artificial EVE economy, that's impossible because CCP don't introduce any extra blueprints.
Exactly.
Well Put.
Anyone who believes an economy where one person and / or group (aka CCP) has god like ability to control supply such as in EVE is a "real life economic simulation" is fooling themselves. The more they tweak, the more the break the "Free" economy model... so they resist tweaking, yet by limiting supply and setting a fixed value for the initial "Seeds" they have already influenced the economy for better or worse.
While the economy may be "player driven" it is far from "player controlled"... CCP does not control prices or demand, but they do control supply... from BPOs to raw ore...
and tweaks (when they come) should be used to enhance the fun aspects of the game for all and allow everybody to enjoy every aspect of the game (with work of course...) not simply to appease a few...
... Hopefully the CCP god will be merciful...
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MajorPMS
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Posted - 2006.04.20 21:08:00 -
[87]
I spent a few months skillin up for the lovly cerebrus . I've regreted it sicne january when I first got to fly one. What a dream machine for me truly. It was blown up rightfully so and i have not been able to get another cause of price.
I really wish i put them 2-3 months skilling into my raven, tho she is a pig to fly (slow and not very agile).
by now i'd have t2 cruise and torps with maybe a couple or few of the support skills to lvl V .
My advice for newer players is to avoid to much skilling for hac , just to many downsides right now and for the next few months at least most likly. By the time they impliment more BPO's or reverse engineering you will possibly be very effective in a much cheaper & versitile battleship .
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.04.20 21:28:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Jobie Thickburger
Originally by: D'onryu Shoqui
they should have done it so you can only own 1 of each t2 bpo per account.
to stop people buying as many as the same bpo as possible to make a monopoly.
i know alot of t2 manufactures have 2 accounts but it would still help.
Anyone who owns a T2 ship BPO would have been crazy to sell it. If they Did sell it, Probally noone out there would have enough money to buy it.
So all those quite regular T2 ship BPO auctions on the forums with quite reasonable bids are imaginary?
[23] Member: Official Forum Warrior
What's with the blue robots? Click my sig.
RAWR!11 Sig Hijack!11 - Imaran |
Tachy
|
Posted - 2006.04.20 21:32:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Foil
has UTTERLY failed!!!
Hmm yeah. Right. I can get the ships I want cheap with long waiting lists or quickly at the high market price.
The devs already said there will be more BPO for some ships in the future.
Calm down and train your Science skills some more.
Or do more mining and just buy them - or a BC or BS doing the same job, just less stylish and fully insured.
--*=*=*--
Megadon
CCP wanted a well known artist and celebrity to test the new font so it's approval would be well known. They got Ray |
MajorPMS
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Posted - 2006.04.20 21:42:00 -
[90]
Have any of the Dev's responded to any of these "T2 overpriced!" thread's yet? When is Kali due ? Also how many MORE month's after Kali and/or more BPO's are seeded will it take for the prices to fall back to even 100-120mil zone? It's gonna be awhile huh .............
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Gunsnroses
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Posted - 2006.04.20 21:45:00 -
[91]
Originally by: NeoOhm
A idea to fix this overpriced t2 stuff is to add a few NPC¦s that manufactures t2 stuff for a resonable price, that way the prices in the galaxy should be more balanced.
Right now, we can see in the Insurances, that t2 ships are extremly expensive.
The Hawk it 3 mill payback and it it 18+ mill on the market.
Or the Cerberus that is 220+ mil and 14 mill payback.
Plz make some npc¦s or release more Blueprints so less greedy ppl can have a chance to make good ships for good prices.
Ty!
The God Damn producers do not set the prices, its the buyers such as your self.
Your the reason they cost so much, stop buying them prices will go down.
Simple supply and demand for most t2.
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MajorPMS
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Posted - 2006.04.20 21:50:00 -
[92]
I dont think thats true Gunsandroses. People been sayin that for months now . Once prices drop a little people buy them . "Oh cheap cerb finally! woohoobuy buy buy!" . Prices are just going up and up . Thought it was obvious.
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Arkanor
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Posted - 2006.04.20 22:07:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Mr Vapor
I'm sorry, but not every 2 month noob should be in a BS. Cruisers should take a bit to work for and get like they did back in the day when the MOA was a feared ship to go against in battle. Frigates should be the most flown ships.
That's why they added bigger ships, not even everyone a year old is in a Dreadnaught.
Originally by: Mr Vapor
And before you freak out, thinking "ZOMG, 3 year old player with tons of ISK!!!"
I own 2 BS that I worked for
Playing a game =/= work.
Originally by: Mr Vapor
learn to STFU and put the time in if you want that nice shiny ship.
Originally by: Mr Vapor
This game isn't about grinding
Come again?
________________________________________________
Originally by: Imperial Baddour
I just lost my ship, and dont feel like playing anymore!
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.04.20 22:20:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Arkanor
Originally by: Mr Vapor
This game isn't about grinding
Come again?
It is ironic that the man's post you were quoting talked all about work, and then said it wasn't grinding, but no, the game isn't about grinding 
Grinding in EVE exists so that those who are not creative enough to earn ISK through more interesting means still have a means of making a living.
[23] Member: Official Forum Warrior
What's with the blue robots? Click my sig.
RAWR!11 Sig Hijack!11 - Imaran |
Al Thorr
|
Posted - 2006.04.20 22:27:00 -
[95]
Sigh and I remember the days when producers got flamed for selling their Cerbs at 75Mil .
If you rely on insurance to fly a ship then you should not go any where near T2.
As the old adage goes - If you have to ask how much you cant afford it.
Regards
Al Thorr
"You cant polish a turd" - The new rendered font is living proof.
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Kira Natel
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Posted - 2006.04.20 22:39:00 -
[96]
T2 is fast becoming a standard and not a luxury item. The playerbase is maturing. People want to play with all their favorite toys but not be continually gouged. CCP for the most part seems slow to react to the changing dynamics of the playerbase. And there is always that nagging feeling that CCP favors certain players,corps and alliances; whether true or not.
A novel solution would be to devalue all ISK by a factor of ten. 2B = 200 mil 200mil=20 mil. Prices would drop and everybody would be complaining about the same thing.
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Netto
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Posted - 2006.04.20 22:49:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Vincent Rainbow
I dont think they are overpriced.
They are meant to be a luxury type item, not something that every Tom, **** and Harry can afford to lose on a daily basis. People have more isk now than they used to have, so the price of decent stuff SHOULD go up.
This is about as dead of a horse as a horse can get but this comment still makes me chuckle.
And exactly WHO decided that HAC's are meant to be luxury items?
Don't get me wrong, I don't mind the high HAC prices because they make them WAY more fun to blow up, but the luxury comment is just ridiculous.
Netto
Celestial Fleet - We care. |
Dark Shikari
|
Posted - 2006.04.20 22:57:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Netto
Originally by: Vincent Rainbow
I dont think they are overpriced.
They are meant to be a luxury type item, not something that every Tom, **** and Harry can afford to lose on a daily basis. People have more isk now than they used to have, so the price of decent stuff SHOULD go up.
This is about as dead of a horse as a horse can get but this comment still makes me chuckle.
And exactly WHO decided that HAC's are meant to be luxury items?
Don't get me wrong, I don't mind the high HAC prices because they make them WAY more fun to blow up, but the luxury comment is just ridiculous.
Well by definition they're a luxury item, as appears to be intended by CCP.
Even with top industry skills and good PE research on the blueprint, there are a mere 120-140 HACs made per day at most. Thousands of cruisers, frigates, and battleships are probably lost every day. They are a luxury item, simply because due to the low supply there are not enough HACs for everyone to fly them the way they would any other ship.
[23] Member: Official Forum Warrior
What's with the blue robots? Click my sig.
RAWR!11 Sig Hijack!11 - Imaran |
Netto
|
Posted - 2006.04.20 23:24:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Harisdrop
Vets with 30 mill skill points dont think tech II is overpriced.
34 mil and climbing and I know there is a problem with supply and demand (I.e. they cost too much).
Broad sweeping statements ftl.
Netto
Celestial Fleet - We care. |
Netto
|
Posted - 2006.04.21 00:15:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: Netto
Originally by: Vincent Rainbow
I dont think they are overpriced.
They are meant to be a luxury type item, not something that every Tom, **** and Harry can afford to lose on a daily basis. People have more isk now than they used to have, so the price of decent stuff SHOULD go up.
This is about as dead of a horse as a horse can get but this comment still makes me chuckle.
And exactly WHO decided that HAC's are meant to be luxury items?
Don't get me wrong, I don't mind the high HAC prices because they make them WAY more fun to blow up, but the luxury comment is just ridiculous.
Well by definition they're a luxury item, as appears to be intended by CCP.
Even with top industry skills and good PE research on the blueprint, there are a mere 120-140 HACs made per day at most. Thousands of cruisers, frigates, and battleships are probably lost every day. They are a luxury item, simply because due to the low supply there are not enough HACs for everyone to fly them the way they would any other ship.
I think there is something to be said for HAC's to cost a premium, but I think that's different then hacs costing 200+ mil.
My interpretation of CCP's intention was that they wanted them to be leet, and for higher sp or spec'd people, but I also think the system itself is flawed and CCP knows it. At least, this is the impression I got from them when I talked to them in Vegas.
It's similar to what's happening with housing in Ireland. A population bubble that is looking for something that's limited, the price goes through the roof in extremely short time. Now in a market that should be elastic, the current method of t2 BPO release and production doesn't allow for that elasticity. They are going to introduce mechanisms into the game that allows for it. Ergo, one could surmise that they are not intended to be luxury items, like faction BS', but merely high end weapons of war to be used by specialized warriors.
Just a theory, but certainly makes more sense then the knee-jerk 'OMG it's a luxury item, like a yacht with guns!'
Netto
Celestial Fleet - We care. |
0bsession
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Posted - 2006.04.21 02:28:00 -
[101]
I have the perfect fix... make ALL t2 bpos limited runs and limited time to produce. CCP can figure out those numbers, but I'd say a Cerb bpo would be like 50 runs and/or 3 months. After 50% of the runs are made or 3 months have past, then another bpo is seeded. This would keep a constant lottery going.
... and the market reasonable. There's NO REASON why some nice t2 bpo should make insta-billionaires to ONE person.
CCP also needs to put out corp lottery t2 drops... make corps profit, not ONE person.
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235ppo01
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Posted - 2006.04.21 02:55:00 -
[102]
Originally by: 0bsession
I have the perfect fix... make ALL t2 bpos limited runs and limited time to produce. CCP can figure out those numbers, but I'd say a Cerb bpo would be like 50 runs and/or 3 months. After 50% of the runs are made or 3 months have past, then another bpo is seeded. This would keep a constant lottery going.
CCP is already going to release limited bpc's in kalai..
... and the market reasonable. There's NO REASON why some nice t2 bpo should make insta-billionaires to ONE person.
why not??? I bust my arse to run missions and train skills and now fate be falls me and I get a shinny new bpo..
CCP also needs to put out corp lottery t2 drops... make corps profit, not ONE person.
And who will controll it? CEO, CFO, Main producer?? idea impossible to implament, just asking for more corp thefts... err wait yeah I like that, join corps and steal their tech 2 bpo's
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UGWidowmaker
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Posted - 2006.04.21 04:44:00 -
[103]
ive had an agent runer for almost 1+ year i have insane amount of rd points and i get nothing. so when i finaly get one you say im not allowed to make ****load o isk on it ??? dudes i worked 1+ year to get one.. i charge whatever posible.. some have gotten bpo very easy and some will never get one.. the system is ****** up! and ccp knows it, and they are working on various solutions.. but lets not blame the ones selling t2 because i know ANY here would do excactly the same if they had one heck so would i ! so stop whining because you dont have any bpos and apreciate some wanna haul t2 stuff around for houres to make it posible for you to get some t2 mods..
I will make u into biosource... |
Andrue
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Posted - 2006.04.21 10:00:00 -
[104]
I think the equipment prices are fine. The stuff is supposed to be the best. If everyone could gain access to it the market for T1 would vanish. That would mean T2 would cease to be special and everything that T1 represents would be thrown away.
For T2 to have meaning we need to have T1 and that means T1 must remain mainstream and T2 must remain more costly. The prices for T2 equipment are not really all that bad. I recently outfitted an Apoc with T2 kit and it only cost 30mil. For a player with the skills to use such kit that shouldn't be any great hardship. Heck - I earned that back with four hours mining in a .4 with said Apoc.
T2 ships I'm not so sure about. They are very expensive. OTOH I've not flown one yet. If they give the kind of boost that T2 equipment does then I think the price is acceptable.
Neither CCP nor the players will appreciate seeing T1 rendered worthless. T2 needs to stay expensive.
--
(Battle hardened miner)
[Brackley, UK]
WARNING:This post may contain large doses of reality. |
Jenny Spitfire
|
Posted - 2006.04.21 11:55:00 -
[105]
Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 21/04/2006 11:59:54
Another thought.
T2 market is fine. T2 market has not reached equilibrium yet. With the current T2 scare, the reason for the ever increasing prices are because of over-buying. If everyone can only own 1 T2 item at any time, we would be seeing cheap stuffs in the market.
How many owns more than a T2 ship type in hangar? Maybe like 2 Cerberus but still buying a few more because afraid to lose out in the market.
How many owns too many redundant T2 equipment in hangar? Read carefully, redundant.
I am guessing, everyone has T2 stocks to last for at least a few months to a year.
Paranoia + Scare + T2 == Prices go up
Just my 1 ISK.
----------------
RecruitMe@NOINT!
RAWR!11 Sig Hijack!11 - Imaran |
Uggster
|
Posted - 2006.04.21 12:04:00 -
[106]
Another thought.
HAHAHAHAHAHA
Poor people should not have nice ships.
I have all the T2 stuff I want.
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Grainsalt
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Posted - 2006.04.21 12:46:00 -
[107]
Heh..
Personally I sold my Eagle at a huge profit, and decided to stick to my lovely tech I raven and train BS V instead and use T2 equip.. At least when I die now I get full insurance.. Is quite funny to see a 200m cerb go pop and get a 10m payout
BabyBlue:- "I propose CCP make USB powered genital electrodes compulsory for pod pilots, activated when hull < 5%. " |
Steppa
|
Posted - 2006.04.21 12:51:00 -
[108]
IMHO, one of the biggest reasons T2 ships cost so much at the moment is because of the fact that you can't really defend a POS.
There are a couple of absolutely, we-wipe-our-asses-with-extra-dreadnaughts alliances out there that can clean areas of POS structures at will. This severely hampers investment into moon mining and high-end mineral mining.
CCP needs to give the defenders a bit of a boost.
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Kaeten
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Posted - 2006.04.21 13:06:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Steppa
IMHO, one of the biggest reasons T2 ships cost so much at the moment is because of the fact that you can't really defend a POS.
There are a couple of absolutely, we-wipe-our-asses-with-extra-dreadnaughts alliances out there that can clean areas of POS structures at will. This severely hampers investment into moon mining and high-end mineral mining.
CCP needs to give the defenders a bit of a boost.
I suppose you have never heard of that pos's can be built in 0.5 and higher, meaning yes, they can be defended well enough. You would need a fleet ot take a pos out liek that.
Another thing, I thin kthis thread is abit more pointing towards hac's as atm they are really *** in price.
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Balazs Simon
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Posted - 2006.04.21 13:14:00 -
[110]
There is no problem with t2 prices.
Rich can buy it, rest can't. This is how it should be. DoN't e-bay all your isk, than you can buy things. So simple.
Pay for eve n RL cash, not with GTC, and you can buy T2.
-
POST WITH YOUR MAIN!
This post is my personal opinion. It does not represent the standpoint of the HUN Corporation in any way.
- |
Tachy
|
Posted - 2006.04.21 13:23:00 -
[111]
Originally by: Kaeten
I suppose you have never heard of that pos's can be built in 0.5 ...
but wont be able to do any moon mining, nor will there be any of the minerals needed for T2 component building past atmos, evaps and sillis.
--*=*=*--
Megadon
CCP wanted a well known artist and celebrity to test the new font so it's approval would be well known. They got Ray |
0bsession
|
Posted - 2006.04.21 13:30:00 -
[112]
Originally by: 235ppo01
Originally by: 0bsession
I have the perfect fix... make ALL t2 bpos limited runs and limited time to produce. CCP can figure out those numbers, but I'd say a Cerb bpo would be like 50 runs and/or 3 months. After 50% of the runs are made or 3 months have past, then another bpo is seeded. This would keep a constant lottery going.
CCP is already going to release limited bpc's in kalai..
... and the market reasonable. There's NO REASON why some nice t2 bpo should make insta-billionaires to ONE person.
why not??? I bust my arse to run missions and train skills and now fate be falls me and I get a shinny new bpo..
CCP also needs to put out corp lottery t2 drops... make corps profit, not ONE person.
And who will controll it? CEO, CFO, Main producer?? idea impossible to implament, just asking for more corp thefts... err wait yeah I like that, join corps and steal their tech 2 bpo's
Of course their CEO would control it, and the whole corp would know about it. If the CEO can't handle the management, then he shouldnt be CEO. If he's not trusted, then he shouldn't be CEO.
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Tehyarec
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Posted - 2006.04.21 13:54:00 -
[113]
My take is that indeed the prices can be as they are, if the players wish to pay as much (and yeah, I plan on getting many T2 ships in the future myself), but there really should be better insurance coverage in some non-exploitable way. It's not like if you insure a Lexus you only get the raw material's worth back either.
Now, I assume there's a similar "problem" for faction ships too. It's a bit of a shame, like with T2 ships it makes them slightly less useable when they're so expensive yet you can't get much of an insurance return.
If the market is supposedly so realistic as player-driven, insurance should be equally "realistic" as well.
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Galea Wildfang
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Posted - 2006.04.21 13:57:00 -
[114]
Easiest fix would be ..
make BPC's of T2 equipment buyable from research agents with RP ..
People will buy those BPC's who are totally scarce .. and will avoid those that have a huge supply. That should bring the prices down some for the overprized equipment. The stuff will still be alot more expensive than T1 and range more in the area of Meta Items (and t2 have their drawbacks, like fitting requirements for guns/launcher compared to T1).
Flamming leads to anger, anger leads to pain, pain leads to suffering, and suffering leads to teh Dark Side !
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Yilan Cheran
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Posted - 2006.04.21 14:11:00 -
[115]
Just wait when T3 comes trickling in. Or when more COSMOS items start hitting the market, or simply more named items. T2 will come around... many named items come very close to T2 in effectivity, I like to think (but mabe I am just naive nub, who can tell)
Anyway, I find the T2 equipment that I need affordable enough- it's just, why fly the best of the best in no time at all?
PS: and CCP heavily interfering in the market will put a terrible dent in the players' trust of same, which would be one of the worst possible disasters that could happen to Eve.
PPS: weren't there threats that T2 complain-threads would cause little kittens to be brutally killed?
The kittens! Think of the kittens
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.04.21 14:21:00 -
[116]
Originally by: Galea Wildfang
Easiest fix would be ..
make BPC's of T2 equipment buyable from research agents with RP ..
People will buy those BPC's who are totally scarce .. and will avoid those that have a huge supply. That should bring the prices down some for the overprized equipment. The stuff will still be alot more expensive than T1 and range more in the area of Meta Items (and t2 have their drawbacks, like fitting requirements for guns/launcher compared to T1).
I posted a similar idea not long ago. Basically the BPCs would be very expensive in terms of RPs (like 8k RPs for a Deimos BPC), and thus would not give great profit to the researchers, but would boost the very limited supply just enough to lower prices. People would of course only "buy" BPCs for the most expensive items, thus making the system adapt to the market automatically.
[23] Member: Official Forum Warrior
What's with the blue robots? Click my sig.
RAWR!11 Sig Hijack!11 - Imaran |
Malena Panic
|
Posted - 2006.04.21 15:58:00 -
[117]
Originally by: Andrue
For T2 to have meaning we need to have T1 and that means T1 must remain mainstream and T2 must remain more costly.
Even if T2 BPOs were seeded in the open NPC market (note that I am not necessarily advocating this), T2 would be more costly than T1 for the following reasons:
1. Higher materials cost
2. More varied materials required for production
3. Higher production skill levels required
4. Higher initial investment cost
5. Relative scarcity as a result of 1-4
5. More congested production lines as players realize the higher profit margins available to production
It seems fairly reasonable to assume that T2 prices will always be higher than T1 prices, and profit margins accordingly.
|
Kaylana Syi
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Posted - 2006.04.21 16:02:00 -
[118]
People don't seem to realize that ability and feasability are being restricted in EVE via DEV tools. The DEVs originally loved the BPC system in the beginning. It was good. As our wallets grew off mining phat rock and chaining 45k cruisers in 0.0 for hours it turned out that the BPC system was borked. Unlimited copies destroyed the need for BPOs. So they put in number of runs but still retained the copy times.
Tech 1 Copy Time up to Battleships is a throwback to the old system even on new ships. Tech 2 Blueprint research was the first step to correct this problem. The DEVs give you the ability to still copy but the feasability is lackluster. Capital Ship Construction is a hybrid model of t1 and t2. You need components to build them but those components are in themselves tech 1 and only need minerals. However, the copy time for a BPC is insane if you compare them to tech 1 Battleships.
The moral of the story is the DEVs are correcting, even sometimes overcorrecting, inherent flaws of the original system. As this game evolves the DEVs are thinking about how to keep the market competitive, long lasting, and interesting. Tech 2 has the blessing and curse of being player driven. There are nothing wrong with the prices if things are balanced. We see some variables to tech 2 production are infact not balanced. Thus, they have stated they will be enabling countermeasures to ensure balance.
One thing you must allow history to dictate is that what the DEVs do to balance *WILL* be foundational and last years to come so they tread lightly. Don't expect drastic changes overnight especially while people have tools to aquire expensive goods or just out class them with modules and skill with t1 variants. And finally said changes that will happen will likely be foundation for t3 so stop busting their balls.
Originally by: "Oveur"
I don't react to threats any better than you do
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Malena Panic
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Posted - 2006.04.21 16:03:00 -
[119]
Originally by: Yilan Cheran
PS: and CCP heavily interfering in the market will put a terrible dent in the players' trust of same, which would be one of the worst possible disasters that could happen to Eve.
Red herring. CCP already heavily interfere in the market, both in setting initial conditions and in changing them in response to user demand (eg RAM BPs).
|
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Petwraith
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Posted - 2006.04.21 16:39:00 -
[120]
snip, click and sweep.....
Thread cleaned, please refrain from ranting, trolling, flaming, spamming and stay on topic. Any more problems will bring my newly created Lock Bat down upon this thread.
---
Originally by: Nikolai Nuvolari
CONCORD is as cunning and ruthless as a demented epileptic with a rocket launcher.
I nerfed my own sig 
|
|
Stephen Chow
|
Posted - 2006.04.21 17:18:00 -
[121]
Originally by: Petwraith
Any more problems will bring my newly created Lock Bat down upon this thread.
Can I have one of these newly created weapons? They sound uber! 
But seriously, there are three big categories we can use to solve this in economic terms.
All of T1 and some of T2 are commodities, those items that are needed in order to survive. They are available in large quantities and relatively affordable. Things like small uranium hybrid rounds (T1 and T2 ver.s), Paradise cruise missiles, Raven class battleships and PDUs(T2 ver) would be commodities IMO.
The second category would be luxuries. These are items that aren't necesary for survival but can help make life better. For example; HACs in general, Assault Frigates, Tech 2 variants of afterburners.
The final category is the specialized items that aren't needed to survive per se but can't be done without in specific situations. For example: Interdictors, Frieghters, Cloaking devices.
The OP seems to be mostly concerned with the second category, mistaking them for being part of the first. The fact of the matter is that something like a Cerberus is unnecesary, therefore, it's not really a problem for the devs. It's a problem for the player to be able to get the funds for it.
The notion that the devs have to stop people from being greedy in this game is funny. This is after all a Hypercapitalistic gaming world.
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Galea Wildfang
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Posted - 2006.04.21 18:30:00 -
[122]
Originally by: Malena Panic
Originally by: Andrue
For T2 to have meaning we need to have T1 and that means T1 must remain mainstream and T2 must remain more costly.
Even if T2 BPOs were seeded in the open NPC market (note that I am not necessarily advocating this), T2 would be more costly than T1 for the following reasons:
1. Higher materials cost
2. More varied materials required for production
3. Higher production skill levels required
4. Higher initial investment cost
5. Relative scarcity as a result of 1-4
5. More congested production lines as players realize the higher profit margins available to production
It seems fairly reasonable to assume that T2 prices will always be higher than T1 prices, and profit margins accordingly.
No one has a problem with T2 being more costly than t1 .. it's the huge difference that makes people unhappy.
Flamming leads to anger, anger leads to pain, pain leads to suffering, and suffering leads to teh Dark Side !
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Ms Freak
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Posted - 2006.04.21 18:41:00 -
[123]
Originally by: NeoOhm
A idea to fix this overpriced t2 stuff is to add a few NPC¦s that manufactures t2 stuff for a resonable price, that way the prices in the galaxy should be more balanced.
Right now, we can see in the Insurances, that t2 ships are extremly expensive.
The Hawk it 3 mill payback and it it 18+ mill on the market.
Or the Cerberus that is 220+ mil and 14 mill payback.
Plz make some npc¦s or release more Blueprints so less greedy ppl can have a chance to make good ships for good prices.
Ty!
Yeah, and lets make a single player version of EVE so people can be all "uber 1337" and that way we can all be the best at everything on easy mode.
Is it just me or do posts like this make anyone else wanna bang thier heads against walls and various other large, flat and hard objects??
Why can't people just get over the fact that this is how RL works too??
Senario:
1) UberElectricFirm Makes ProductX (Say DVD Writers?)
2) The UberElectricsFirm charges 300X Production cost on release.
3) Only 10% of the market buys one so the prices drop.
4) Once 80% of the market have one prices stabalize because the original units brake/explode and need replacing.. rinse repeat.
Now turn that 10% in step 3 to 80% - what happens?? Prices stay at 300x production cost.. WHY? BECAUSE PEOPLE PAY THAT FOR THEM!!
It's a shame they don't teach A Level Economics at Grade 2 instead
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NeoOhm
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Posted - 2006.04.21 18:46:00 -
[124]
Wow, does the lenght of this thread make me famous now?!
Anyway, the lenght of is sure shows that its SOME problems with the economy or else there should not be anything to discuss.
Anyway, if my thread is number 50372 it means, like someone pointed out, there is a problem... did i just say that twice?!
WTF?! |
Dark Shikari
|
Posted - 2006.04.21 18:48:00 -
[125]
Originally by: Galea Wildfang
Originally by: Malena Panic
Originally by: Andrue
For T2 to have meaning we need to have T1 and that means T1 must remain mainstream and T2 must remain more costly.
Even if T2 BPOs were seeded in the open NPC market (note that I am not necessarily advocating this), T2 would be more costly than T1 for the following reasons:
1. Higher materials cost
2. More varied materials required for production
3. Higher production skill levels required
4. Higher initial investment cost
5. Relative scarcity as a result of 1-4
5. More congested production lines as players realize the higher profit margins available to production
It seems fairly reasonable to assume that T2 prices will always be higher than T1 prices, and profit margins accordingly.
No one has a problem with T2 being more costly than t1 .. it's the huge difference that makes people unhappy.
Obvious solution: Multiply the prices of T1 ships and modules by 10.
/runs
[23] Member: Official Forum Warrior
What's with the blue robots? Click my sig.
RAWR!11 Sig Hijack!11 - Imaran |
Jenny Spitfire
|
Posted - 2006.04.21 18:52:00 -
[126]
Originally by: Ms Freak
Originally by: NeoOhm
A idea to fix this overpriced t2 stuff is to add a few NPC¦s that manufactures t2 stuff for a resonable price, that way the prices in the galaxy should be more balanced.
Right now, we can see in the Insurances, that t2 ships are extremly expensive.
The Hawk it 3 mill payback and it it 18+ mill on the market.
Or the Cerberus that is 220+ mil and 14 mill payback.
Plz make some npc¦s or release more Blueprints so less greedy ppl can have a chance to make good ships for good prices.
Ty!
Yeah, and lets make a single player version of EVE so people can be all "uber 1337" and that way we can all be the best at everything on easy mode.
Is it just me or do posts like this make anyone else wanna bang thier heads against walls and various other large, flat and hard objects??
Why can't people just get over the fact that this is how RL works too??
Senario:
1) UberElectricFirm Makes ProductX (Say DVD Writers?)
2) The UberElectricsFirm charges 300X Production cost on release.
3) Only 10% of the market buys one so the prices drop.
4) Once 80% of the market have one prices stabalize because the original units brake/explode and need replacing.. rinse repeat.
Now turn that 10% in step 3 to 80% - what happens?? Prices stay at 300x production cost.. WHY? BECAUSE PEOPLE PAY THAT FOR THEM!!
It's a shame they don't teach A Level Economics at Grade 2 instead
Maybe ISKs grow on trees?
----------------
RecruitMe@NOINT!
RAWR!11 Sig Hijack!11 - Imaran |
Father Weebles
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Posted - 2006.04.21 21:24:00 -
[127]
fix the damn insurance
anybody know why invul field II cost 14 mil a pop for a 5% bonus? LOL
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Ukonius
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Posted - 2006.04.21 21:44:00 -
[128]
Originally by: Sub rose
Originally by: NeoOhm
A idea to fix this overpriced t2 stuff is to add a few NPC¦s that manufactures t2 stuff for a resonable price, that way the prices in the galaxy should be more balanced.
Yeah ... please please please do this .... imagine the money that'll be made buying the limited NPC supply up and reselling them for player manufacturer prices *drool*
to prevent this the purchased ship could be Neural-linked to the buyer and thus unsellable. I still think they should cost a ton of money but not quite what they are at atm.
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.04.21 22:02:00 -
[129]
Originally by: Father Weebles
fix the damn insurance
anybody know why invul field II cost 14 mil a pop for a 5% bonus? LOL
30% / 25% = 1.2
That's a 20% bonus.
[23] Member: Official Forum Warrior
What's with the blue robots? Click my sig.
RAWR!11 Sig Hijack!11 - Imaran |
Jenny Spitfire
|
Posted - 2006.04.21 22:05:00 -
[130]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: Father Weebles
fix the damn insurance
anybody know why invul field II cost 14 mil a pop for a 5% bonus? LOL
30% / 25% = 1.2
That's a 20% bonus.
20% with respect to T1. On the whole, it is still 5%.
----------------
RecruitMe@NOINT!
RAWR!11 Sig Hijack!11 - Imaran |
Dark Shikari
|
Posted - 2006.04.21 22:09:00 -
[131]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: Father Weebles
fix the damn insurance
anybody know why invul field II cost 14 mil a pop for a 5% bonus? LOL
30% / 25% = 1.2
That's a 20% bonus.
20% with respect to T1. On the whole, it is still 5%.
(100 * (1 - 0.3)) / (100 * (1 - 0.25)) = 0.933333333
= 6.66% less damage, actually, because 50% hardening = cuts damage in half, 75% = cuts damage by 4 times, etc.
But I'm just nitpicking.
[23] Member: Official Forum Warrior
What's with the blue robots? Click my sig.
RAWR!11 Sig Hijack!11 - Imaran |
NeoOhm
|
Posted - 2006.04.21 22:22:00 -
[132]
Well, atleast we got SOMETHING important out of this thread :)
WTF?! |
MysticNZ
|
Posted - 2006.04.21 22:27:00 -
[133]
I hope the price goes up more.
Seriously.
-
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Lady Gadiva
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Posted - 2006.04.21 22:29:00 -
[134]
T2 modules are generally pretty decent value. Turrets in particular are almost always significantly cheaper than their best named counterparts. I think the reason so many people get annoyed about HAC prices is that they can simply never afford to play with one. They may or may not be worth the ridiculous prices, but so many people will never get a chance to find out for themselves. T2 ships are the sexiest toys in Eve, obviously everyone wants a go, even just once. It is massively unfair that only a small proportion of eve's population will ever get a chance to play with them outside the test server.
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MysticNZ
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Posted - 2006.04.21 22:30:00 -
[135]
Edited by: MysticNZ on 21/04/2006 22:30:33
Originally by: Lady Gadiva
T2 modules are generally pretty decent value. Turrets in particular are almost always significantly cheaper than their best named counterparts. I think the reason so many people get annoyed about HAC prices is that they can simply never afford to play with one. They may or may not be worth the ridiculous prices, but so many people will never get a chance to find out for themselves. T2 ships are the sexiest toys in Eve, obviously everyone wants a go, even just once. It is massively unfair that only a small proportion of eve's population will ever get a chance to play with them outside the test server.
Maybe they should make more isk then. Its not like it's hard or anything.
-
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Al Thorr
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Posted - 2006.04.21 23:21:00 -
[136]
ok to all the whiners that think t2 ships ie the Cerberus is expensive cos they want the ship now. and dont want to pay a premium price to get the ship asap. Who believe that turning the Bpos into Bpcs . Just one simple question....
Do you honestly believe that in converting Bpos into Bpcs will make the cost of the Hac Cheaper? Fact - If My Bpo turned into a Bpc - then all orders are voided. and I would just produce as many ships as I could and not sell them. after all why should I train all the skills to build the ship - to benefit for a limited time any other player? - Nah Id build em and keep them.
What Happens to the Price ........ Through the roof.
Please get an idea on how this game works before posting inane arguements.
Regards
Al Thorr
"You cant polish a turd" - The new rendered font is living proof.
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Tar Magen
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Posted - 2006.04.21 23:30:00 -
[137]
Edited by: Tar Magen on 21/04/2006 23:31:12
Why should there be a fixed number of BPOs for a given ship or module and that be it? How long does any technology stay holed up like it does on EVE? In any competitive economy, some company releases the initial version of a product and pulls it in for a while. Then what happens? More and more competitors start making items closely resembling it until finally the price drops down to where it starts to remotely reflect the cost of manufacturing and delivering it.
They should keep handing out more and more BPOs over time. The whole problem is due to the fact that they handed out a limited number and that was it. The BPO holders have had their time to get super freaking rich.
EDIT: And to head off the inevitable moron accusing me of whining, I did receive a tech II BPO. |
NeoOhm
|
Posted - 2006.04.22 07:41:00 -
[138]
Well, ty all for the good discussion we had in this thread.
Ty for sharing your opininon without flaming away (most of you anyway)
Player run ecenomy seems to work but still, the huge amount of new players must be calculated in this and maybe a few more BP¦s.
That is about what we came toas a solution?
WTF?! |
Calleb
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Posted - 2006.04.22 09:00:00 -
[139]
Well It seems to me that there are only a few real problem items and ships.
OK its clear that certain ships make alot of money as they are the popular ship of the day (zealot retribution hulk etc.) and a few modules are similar (cap chargers ice miners etc) and I am quite happy accepting that in this free market that eve is manufacturers should be allowed to set their own prices.
There are a problem area however that I would like to see something done. This is specifically cloaking devices. I dont manufacture cloaking devices but i do manufacture covert-ops frigates. I have no say on the pricing structure of the cloaks that are needed to fit on to my ships though, and the high price of covert cloaks is killing my buisness.
The cloaks are as far as I am aware, are sort of unique ATM as the basic cloak is limited to player manufacture, The advanced cloak is therefore limited to the manufacturer of the basic cloak, and the manufacturer of the covert cloak is limited to the manufacturers of both the basic and advanced Cloak. Understandably the prices are going mental here (50mill for a covert cloak last time I looked). The introduction of recon curisers has only made the problem worse as more people want cloaks and there has been no BPO dropped.
I cant blame the cloak manufacturers as they get as much isk for them as they can, but if the prices continue to rise, I will be out of a job
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Cipher7
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Posted - 2006.04.22 09:57:00 -
[140]
If its overpriced then don't buy it.
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Flyyn
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Posted - 2006.04.22 10:00:00 -
[141]
Well I have to add my own two cents here...again...Tech II overprices means sombody out there can afford to buy them. If they are a hard worker and play for four to 5 hours a night they can make maybe 20mill a night in 0.0. So this for a week and they can buy a HAC. Now I dont know that many people that will Rat or mine in 0.0 that steady for that long to buy an over priced HAC.
But there are several hundred (if not thousand) players that are willing, yes willing to buy ISK.
ISK is cheap...
Hac's are expensive in ISK
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Madcat Adams
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Posted - 2006.04.22 10:07:00 -
[142]
Must agree with others, just don't buy them. Have a game wide boycot of Hacs for say 2 weeks, and the price will come down. Not that it will ever happen. The real kicker for me is the insurance. I could scrounge up the ISK after some hard core grinding for a while, did it for my first Apoc. The idea that if it goes I'm out basically everything though, well I'm saving my isk for a Tier 3, they can keep the Hac.
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.04.22 10:09:00 -
[143]
Originally by: Madcat Adams
Must agree with others, just don't buy them. Have a game wide boycot of Hacs for say 2 weeks
Technically such a thing would work, however:
1. You'd never be able to get everyone to listen.
2. Since the sellers would know of the boycot, they'd just wait 2 weeks to avoid the price collapse.
[23] Member: Official Forum Warrior
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RAWR!11 Sig Hijack!11 - Imaran |
Cipher7
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Posted - 2006.04.22 10:17:00 -
[144]
Then what do you need isk for?
If rich and poor should fly the same ships, then there is no difference between being rich and poor.
Seriously, some of you live in socialist countries, you are totally out of touch with reality.
Nobody wants to spend 8 years learning to be a doctor, if it will just give them the same standard of living as a hot dog vendor.
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Madcat Adams
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Posted - 2006.04.22 10:42:00 -
[145]
Originally by: Cipher7
Then what do you need isk for?
If rich and poor should fly the same ships, then there is no difference between being rich and poor.
Seriously, some of you live in socialist countries, you are totally out of touch with reality.
Nobody wants to spend 8 years learning to be a doctor, if it will just give them the same standard of living as a hot dog vendor.
Because in a socialist country the doctor would have chosen the profesion because he wants to heal patients, where as a Capitalst country people take it to make more for themselves. There is no other reason for price jacking than to impose a class system, denying the common player for the sake of making the rich players fell superior.
Stop and think about it, why should their be rich and poor? Why can't their just be everybody?
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.04.22 10:44:00 -
[146]
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 22/04/2006 10:44:01
Originally by: Madcat Adams
Originally by: Cipher7
Then what do you need isk for?
If rich and poor should fly the same ships, then there is no difference between being rich and poor.
Seriously, some of you live in socialist countries, you are totally out of touch with reality.
Nobody wants to spend 8 years learning to be a doctor, if it will just give them the same standard of living as a hot dog vendor.
Because in a socialist country the doctor would have chosen the profesion because he wants to heal patients, where as a Capitalst country people take it to make more for themselves. There is no other reason for price jacking than to impose a class system, denying the common player for the sake of making the rich players fell superior.
Stop and think about it, why should their be rich and poor? Why can't their just be everybody?
Because... this... is... a... capitalist economy...
EVE is not communism and never will be.
P.S. The "common player" isn't denied. I have never won a BPO, yet I have billions and multiple T2 BPOs. The "lazy and/or uncreative player" is denied.
As in real life, there is not an equality of wealth--there is an equality of opportunity.
[23] Member: Official Forum Warrior
What's with the blue robots? Click my sig.
RAWR!11 Sig Hijack!11 - Imaran |
Hunters Presence
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Posted - 2006.04.22 10:58:00 -
[147]
Quote:
As in real life
Correction: As in your country.
However, the rest is perfectly truthful. EvE is not an equal society, that would defeat the object. Part of the charm of the game for many players is that such monopolies can and will take place.
-----
Lead Games Programmer @ Quasit-Rushyo Games | Me! |
Madcat Adams
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Posted - 2006.04.22 11:03:00 -
[148]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 22/04/2006 10:44:01
Originally by: Madcat Adams
Originally by: Cipher7
Then what do you need isk for?
If rich and poor should fly the same ships, then there is no difference between being rich and poor.
Seriously, some of you live in socialist countries, you are totally out of touch with reality.
Nobody wants to spend 8 years learning to be a doctor, if it will just give them the same standard of living as a hot dog vendor.
Because in a socialist country the doctor would have chosen the profesion because he wants to heal patients, where as a Capitalst country people take it to make more for themselves. There is no other reason for price jacking than to impose a class system, denying the common player for the sake of making the rich players fell superior.
Stop and think about it, why should their be rich and poor? Why can't their just be everybody?
Because... this... is... a... capitalist economy...
EVE is not communism and never will be.
P.S. The "common player" isn't denied. I have never won a BPO, yet I have billions and multiple T2 BPOs. The "lazy and/or uncreative player" is denied.
As in real life, there is not an equality of wealth--there is an equality of opportunity.
This economy is whatever the players make it. Should the community decide to reject price gouging, they could put an end to it by simply standing up and refusing to pay the prices. The business owners would adopt, or be forced to sell out to others who would.
By the way, your posession of "billions and multiple T2 BPOs" would mark you as not one of the common players. A bit like Donald Trump standing up in the middle of a union meeting and saying that the distribution of wealth is just fine.
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.04.22 11:05:00 -
[149]
Originally by: Madcat Adams
This economy is whatever the players make it. Should the community decide to reject price gouging, they could put an end to it by simply standing up and refusing to pay the prices. The business owners would adopt, or be forced to sell out to others who would.
And we will burn the capitalists and start our Bolshevik Revolution, my brothers! VIVE LA REVOLUTION!
Originally by: Madcat Adams
By the way, your posession of "billions and multiple T2 BPOs" would mark you as not one of the common players. A bit like Donald Trump standing up in the middle of a union meeting and saying that the distribution of wealth is just fine.
Sure I'm a common player. I earned every cent of those BPOs myself. I can't feel sorry for other common players complaining about the price of T2 and complaining that its out of reach when I earned all this myself in such a relatively short period of time.
I didn't start playing EVE until 18 months after release, and I have never had more than one account. And nobody gave me anything. I've never received any donations, nor have I sold gametime cards.
[23] Member: Official Forum Warrior
What's with the blue robots? Click my sig.
RAWR!11 Sig Hijack!11 - Imaran |
fkingfurious
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Posted - 2006.04.22 11:11:00 -
[150]
Edited by: fkingfurious on 22/04/2006 11:13:11
I guess another reason why t2 ship prices just keep rising is cos they never get superceded. HACS are beyond dispute the best solo pvpers/ e-peens in the game. As more and people get the skills the demand sky rockets but supply cannot increase to match and so prices rise. However, in the real world something better would have come along and so the prices of the "old" HACS would drop. That doesnt happen in eve. And as the supply of these ships is never going to increase the price can only continue to rise. And we all know from experience that people will always buy them, regardless of how much they cost. So if we think that theyre expensive now, what are we gonna do when a cerb is 300m, and 400m, and then 500m and still rising. Cos if the system doesnt change prices like that are the only possible outcome.
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Mi Lai
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Posted - 2006.04.22 11:11:00 -
[151]
Quote:
How would you expect people to choose who gets them and who doesn't in your communist society? Lottery?
We've seen how well that works .
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.04.22 11:13:00 -
[152]
Originally by: fkingfurious
HACS are beyond dispute the best solo pvpers/ e-peens in the game.
According to who?
A properly fitted battleship can shred any HAC. WTB HAC that can kill a NOSinix...
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bldyannoyed
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Posted - 2006.04.22 11:18:00 -
[153]
What we are witnessing here ladies and gentlemen is the phenomenon known as inflation. " A reduction in the purchasing power of isk". The ships dont cost more, its just that ur money is worth less. And its worth less cos stupid amounts of isk are insultingly easy to come by. I was running lvl3's not long ago and got, for no apparent effort or risk, a +3 willpower in a can, a+3 perc for a reward and a +3 int for a 15k lp offer. 110+ mill for no effort, hell i could have done thoise missions in my sleep. So all of a sudden a 200 mill HAC is reduced to 2 days of mission running. They arent so expensive if u think of it like that.
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Madcat Adams
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Posted - 2006.04.22 11:29:00 -
[154]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
And we will burn the capitalists and start our Bolshevik Revolution, my brothers! VIVE LA REVOLUTION!
Sorry, doesn't work that way.
Tech 2 prices are based on supply and demand. For example, there are only enough HACs built every day to furnish a tiny fraction of the playerbase with HACs. How would you expect people to choose who gets them and who doesn't in your communist society? Lottery?
First off, only a portion of that player base is actually able to fly Hacs, as they are a SP intensive epeen. Hacs would be divided among Corporations according to member size, to be distributed to members with the greatest need that have the ability to pilot them. Individual distribution would be by Corp exec, with an apointed Empire wide oversight for investigation of any cases of favortism.
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Sure I'm a common player. I earned every cent of those BPOs myself. I can't feel sorry for other common players complaining about the price of T2 and complaining that its out of reach when I earned all this myself in such a relatively short period of time.
I didn't start playing EVE until 18 months after release, and I have never had more than one account. And nobody gave me anything. I've never received any donations, nor have I sold gametime cards.
Because of this, I can rightfully assume that everyone whining about tech 2 prices and how impossible it is to get a T2 BPO is simply a lazy, uncreative, ignorant sheep who's too full of himself to imagine that he could quite easily get one for himself.
Yay, more elder player elitisim. So basically your saying your character has been around forever, and therefore should have anything he wants, but other folks should just suck it up and watch you in your shiny ride. Right... Don't doubt you got lots of ISK from the savings snowballing up. Here is the flaw in your arguemnt. We haven't all been playing since The Andy Griffit Show was making new episodes, and no we very well can't just go pick up a BPO2 or a toss cash down the toilie for Tier two items on a whim. I work hard with my character, yes I could buy a HAC. If I wanted to bankrupt my character, and watch it all go away the second some party of griefers catches me 3 weeks down the road.
By the way, that's sarcasm, kindly don't bother posting notice The Andy Griffit Show was off the air well before Eve came out.
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.04.22 11:31:00 -
[155]
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 22/04/2006 11:34:05
Originally by: Madcat Adams
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Sure I'm a common player. I earned every cent of those BPOs myself. I can't feel sorry for other common players complaining about the price of T2 and complaining that its out of reach when I earned all this myself in such a relatively short period of time.
I didn't start playing EVE until 18 months after release, and I have never had more than one account. And nobody gave me anything. I've never received any donations, nor have I sold gametime cards.
Because of this, I can rightfully assume that everyone whining about tech 2 prices and how impossible it is to get a T2 BPO is simply a lazy, uncreative, ignorant sheep who's too full of himself to imagine that he could quite easily get one for himself.
Yay, more elder player elitisim. So basically your saying your character has been around forever, and therefore should have anything he wants, but other folks should just suck it up and watch you in your shiny ride. Right... Don't doubt you got lots of ISK from the savings snowballing up. Here is the flaw in your arguemnt. We haven't all been playing since The Andy Griffit Show was making new episodes, and no we very well can't just go pick up a BPO2 or a toss cash down the toilie for Tier two items on a whim. I work hard with my character, yes I could buy a HAC. If I wanted to bankrupt my character, and watch it all go away the second some party of griefers catches me 3 weeks down the road.
By the way, that's sarcasm, kindly don't bother posting notice The Andy Griffit Show was off the air well before Eve came out.
Did you even read my post before responding with an ignorant comment?
I said I haven't been around forever--I joined long after most people did.
I had my first billion in my second month, from trading.
As an example of an easy way to make money, one can earn 20 million an hour running level 4 missions. That means just 8 hours of missions to get a HAC. Just 50 hours to get a billion. I don't see what the big deal is about people not having money these days. Do they mine in an ibis or something?
P.S. If you're worrying about "parties of griefers" I would suggest you learn to play EVE, because not only are there few griefers in EVE, but its pathetically easy to avoid pirates if thats what you mean.
[23] Member: Official Forum Warrior
What's with the blue robots? Click my sig.
RAWR!11 Sig Hijack!11 - Imaran |
Madcat Adams
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Posted - 2006.04.22 11:48:00 -
[156]
You do of course realize this game has been around since 2003, thus still giving you quite a bit of time in game. Further... more... pretty... pretty... what was a I saying? Never mind.. *wanders off*
Seriously though, the Hac market is simply ludricous. Something should be done, and the only viable method is to boycot them. Or we can all wait till were rich, but by then, will probably go buy something else anyways.
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Cipher7
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Posted - 2006.04.22 11:50:00 -
[157]
Originally by: Madcat Adams
Originally by: Cipher7
Then what do you need isk for?
If rich and poor should fly the same ships, then there is no difference between being rich and poor.
Seriously, some of you live in socialist countries, you are totally out of touch with reality.
Nobody wants to spend 8 years learning to be a doctor, if it will just give them the same standard of living as a hot dog vendor.
Because in a socialist country the doctor would have chosen the profesion because he wants to heal patients, where as a Capitalst country people take it to make more for themselves. There is no other reason for price jacking than to impose a class system, denying the common player for the sake of making the rich players fell superior.
Stop and think about it, why should their be rich and poor? Why can't their just be everybody?
Because it depends on goodwill to get things done.
What keeps the doctor from having a bad day, and saying "Damn it. Thats it, I've had it, I quit. These sniveling whiney people don't appreciate what I do for them" and going off to play his XBox.
Especially in a multi-ethnic society, where your fellow citizens aren't members of your tribe or ethnic group.
I love my people, my ethnic group, they are children of my ancestors, we have a common bond, we have solidarity, like a large extended family, when we meet in public we stop and say hello, hey what part are you from, do you know so-and-so, we have common history, our ancestors spilled the same blood together, if I am in a position to do a service for them, I do an extra good job, and if I can do it for free then its free.
Its hard to maintain any kind of solidarity when you got some foreign guy in weird clothing picking his nose in the waiting room. It makes you not want to treat him.
Money is the grease that oils the machine. Thats why there is rich and poor, the rich are those who do hard or undesirable jobs.
If there was no money, nobody would be a trash man. Nobody grows up saying, "I want to be a factory worker when I grow up."
Nobody has a life dream to be a waiter.
Who is going to do those jobs if nobody has to work?
You think people will just do them for goodwill?
I don't have that much faith in humanity.
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.04.22 11:51:00 -
[158]
Originally by: Madcat Adams
You do of course realize this game has been around since 2003, thus still giving you quite a bit of time in game. Further... more... pretty... pretty... what was a I saying? Never mind.. *wanders off*
Seriously though, the Hac market is simply ludricous. Something should be done, and the only viable method is to boycot them. Or we can all wait till were rich, but by then, will probably go buy something else anyways.
Yes, I would probably agree that there are too few BPOs for HACs.
They're affordable to me, technically... but not even I fly them in PvP. At least the way I fly ships, I'd blow all my billions of ISK in a matter of weeks . I much prefer T2-fitted cruisers.
CCP has officially stated that they know there's too few HACs in supply. They'll probably either release more BPOs or release BPCs through research agents.
[23] Member: Official Forum Warrior
What's with the blue robots? Click my sig.
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fkingfurious
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Posted - 2006.04.22 11:55:00 -
[159]
There is a fatal flaw to this argument of course, which is to say u cant't apply it to eve. I dont think there are many people in eve who do things they think of as "unpleasant". There are rich miners and poor miners, rich carebears and porr carebears, rich pirates and poor pirates. The profession u choose in eve has no impact on ur potnetial to make money, only how good u are at it. All this comparison of garbage men to doctors is completely pointless.
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Cipher7
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Posted - 2006.04.22 11:59:00 -
[160]
I haven't met that many people who LIKE mining.
I've met alot of people who TOLERATE it because its easy money.
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Miss Overlord
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Posted - 2006.04.22 11:59:00 -
[161]
Realising the t2 BPCs through research agents is a good way to explore a BPC realise system before puting it across the board.
Obvioulsy prices for HACs still arent high enough to affect demand ppl are still pushing hard to get their hands on one - the other affect inflation is reduced and battleship prices are still falling.
400m for a HAC might start to reduce demand but if the current situation persists then prices will keep rising.
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Miss Overlord
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Posted - 2006.04.22 12:02:00 -
[162]
Mining is easy money - mmm for the ebayers that is - as long as u have the skills to pull it off within a reasonable time.
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Rodj Blake
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Posted - 2006.04.22 12:04:00 -
[163]
If I were CCP, my reasoning might be something along these lines...
TomB: Hey, Oveur, there's players complaining that HACs are overpriced, they say that there aren't enough BPOs.
Oveur: I don't see any complaints about the price of T2 hardeners, and they have the same number of BPOs, so that can't be the problem.
TomB: So the problem must be that demand is too high, how can we decrease it?
Oveur: Send for Tuxford!
Tuxford: Wassup boss, you need me to nerf something?
Dolce et decorum est pro imperator mori |
fkingfurious
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Posted - 2006.04.22 12:05:00 -
[164]
Originally by: Cipher7
I haven't met that many people who LIKE mining.
I've met alot of people who TOLERATE it because its easy money.
I on the other hand have met LOTS of people who actually enjoy mining and think im a total fruit loop for getting a kick out of shooting people. Just cos u aint met em dont mean they dont exist.
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Miss Overlord
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Posted - 2006.04.22 12:06:00 -
[165]
Originally by: Rodj Blake
If I were CCP, my reasoning might be something along these lines...
TomB: Hey, Oveur, there's players complaining that HACs are overpriced, they say that there aren't enough BPOs.
Oveur: I don't see any complaints about the price of T2 hardeners, and they have the same number of BPOs, so that can't be the problem.
If HACs were to be nerfed demand would slip right off. What we need are pirate faction HACs via agents and also via 0.0 factional and named officer drops. Might split supply a bit. Add some more skills in there to.
TomB: So the problem must be that demand is too high, how can we decrease it?
Oveur: Send for Tuxford!
Tuxford: Wassup boss, you need me to nerf something?
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phillip duncan
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Posted - 2006.04.22 12:53:00 -
[166]
Id CCP not say they were thinking about actioning additional tech2 BPO's in a monthly auction ?
As Demand for BPO increase people will buy the BPO for billions of ISK creatign more supply.
And they are talking about the research agents allowing you to trade RP for BPC in the next expantion looking at the drawing board.
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Jenny Spitfire
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Posted - 2006.04.22 13:12:00 -
[167]
Originally by: phillip duncan
Id CCP not say they were thinking about actioning additional tech2 BPO's in a monthly auction ?
As Demand for BPO increase people will buy the BPO for billions of ISK creatign more supply.
And they are talking about the research agents allowing you to trade RP for BPC in the next expantion looking at the drawing board.
This is very dangerous because only the established players can afford and will collect them all. Imagine, there is only one plumber in EvE and you have to ask him to fix your tap.
----------------
RecruitMe@NOINT!
RAWR!11 Sig Hijack!11 - Imaran |
phillip duncan
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Posted - 2006.04.22 13:31:00 -
[168]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
This is very dangerous because only the established players can afford and will collect them all. Imagine, there is only one plumber in EvE and you have to ask him to fix your tap.
Yes but there tow thing to take into account.
1) new players will not have the money or the skills to produce the ships, if they have been ingame for and made a couple of Bil and have the skills they cant be classed as new.
2) There are more rich corps in Eve then HAC PBO. Corps will buy the BPO in the auctions and start production increasing the supply. A decent sized corp working together should be able to make a couple of Bil in a month or two,
If the supply of ships increase significently the price will start to drop as the producers will have to fight for custom like some of the other over supplied tech2 market.
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spRAYed
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Posted - 2006.04.22 14:10:00 -
[169]
OK, so people dont buy HAC's or any overpriced tech II stuff anymore.
Price goes down, people start buying again,so price goes up! and the same thing happens OVER AND OVER AGAIN.
Saying that not buying something would fix this isn't true as long as tech II bpo holders cant build enough.
There is too much ask, and no offer.
-----------------------------------------
Now, who wants a cookie? |
Jenny Spitfire
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Posted - 2006.04.22 14:12:00 -
[170]
Originally by: phillip duncan
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
This is very dangerous because only the established players can afford and will collect them all. Imagine, there is only one plumber in EvE and you have to ask him to fix your tap.
Yes but there tow thing to take into account.
1) new players will not have the money or the skills to produce the ships, if they have been ingame for and made a couple of Bil and have the skills they cant be classed as new.
2) There are more rich corps in Eve then HAC PBO. Corps will buy the BPO in the auctions and start production increasing the supply. A decent sized corp working together should be able to make a couple of Bil in a month or two,
If the supply of ships increase significently the price will start to drop as the producers will have to fight for custom like some of the other over supplied tech2 market.
More BPOs do not guarantee lower prices. What it guarantees is there is a competition between manufacturers and resellers. Those who have a certain BPOs might want to collect a few of a kind like on Monopoly games. Get 4 railway stations and whoever takes a ride must cry.
/me doesnt like to land on Park Lane and Mayfair.
----------------
RecruitMe@NOINT!
RAWR!11 Sig Hijack!11 - Imaran |
Abyss Jack
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Posted - 2006.04.22 14:42:00 -
[171]
yup agree, a new t2 bpo wave would solve the problems. I know that the producer yet won't be happy about it cuz they won't be kool as they like to, but ye higher quantitys would rebalance the prices. Give me some hac bpos and i show you how low the prices can be
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