Pages: 1 2 3 4 [5] :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
4434
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 23:54:00 -
[121] - Quote
My ex had a druid in WoW.
She remapped the SP over 30 frikkin' times. Bring back DEEEEP Space! |
dadar
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
4
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 00:06:00 -
[122] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:This game has no "try before you buy" regarding ships.
Someone may choose to want to fly a Golem. Why a golem? I don't know, this is just an example. Maybe whoever the guy is decided that a golem looked like it would be fun to fly. He could find out by getting any other Ravenkind. With one (very mild) exception, there is nothing in the game that requires a ton of SP that can't be explored using next to no SP at all. Putting more SP into it just makes it the same thing, but with more SP put into it GÇö the core usage patter or gameplay doesn't change. The mild exception is capships, since they require at least some kind of GÇ£teamworkGÇ¥ (that can be done on your own) but they're still just ships that use the same mechanics as every other ship in the game. The mistake people make is that they think they have to train a ton of stuff to try an activity out. They don't. That's just a silly myth born out of the same ignorance that gave birth to the GÇ£must train to V to be effectiveGÇ¥ idiocy.
I am thinking of trying heavy interdictors out can you please point out the low sp way for me to try them out with out training the next 46 days to get into one? |
dadar
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
4
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 00:09:00 -
[123] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:My ex had a druid in WoW.
She remapped the SP over 30 frikkin' times.
that's impressive considering wow doen't even have sp you can't relate wow's talents even remotely to sp.
now if she was able to switch classes without leveling a new one that would be closer but still way off as you can just level a new toon in wow in couple weeks
some level 5 skills in eve take twice as long as it takes to level one char in wow to max level
and for thos saying sp don't matter your just trolling to keep noobs playing with lies.
example two pilots flying same ship same mods and same level of piloting skills using same tactics no errors the pilot with the most sp wins
a new pilot with say lvl 4 small hybrids agasint somebody with say lvl 4 small hybrid speclization is already at a 13% dmg disadvantage.
13% dmg is a huge advantage |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19996
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 00:12:00 -
[124] - Quote
dadar wrote:I am thinking of trying heavy interdictors out can you please point out the low sp way for me to try them out with out training the next 46 days to get into one? Oh, that's easy. Buy a PLEX and sit inGǪ ohGǪ just about anything on the Jita undock while spamming GǣI'm carrying a PLEXGǥ in local.
The speed and cost of your loss should be a good approximation of the HIC experience. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
432
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 00:38:00 -
[125] - Quote
I do not think I have ever seen a HIC or Interdictor outside null ... ever. |
SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2497
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 00:58:00 -
[126] - Quote
Hasikan Miallok wrote:I do not think I have ever seen a HIC or Interdictor outside null ... ever.
What? HIC's are the primary tackle in lowsec supercap battles, and remote sebo'd hics as primary tackle in gatecamps has been a thing for quite some time in both low and high (To deal with stabs). |
Malrikk
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
5
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 01:26:00 -
[127] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:This game has no "try before you buy" regarding ships.
Someone may choose to want to fly a Golem. Why a golem? I don't know, this is just an example. Maybe whoever the guy is decided that a golem looked like it would be fun to fly. So he's spent 110 days reaching the point where he can fly a golem. He spends another 90 days training up all the skills necessary to fly it "really well".
To him, the Golem sucks. Having had no 100% accurate way to determine if flying a golem is something he would enjoy, because he's told to "make a plan", he made one and it turned out to be something he didn't enjoy.
Now he's stuck with a character in a game he spent 200 days working towards something he doesn't enjoy. He knows there's a possibility that he could be enjoying another aspect of the game that takes 200 days to enter, but he can't. He's screwed.
Now because you're entitled elitist who attribute value to being able to wait longer than others (hahaha I can stand being bored more than you can nah nah nah nah nah), you would rather that person feel as though he's made an irreversible mistake and QUIT THE GAME.
You're so dependent on EVE to prop up your ego that you'd rather people quit the game than have the opportunity to remap their skill points to maintain the possibility of interest to keep playing.
(inb4 some idiot wants to spend 3 hours arguing over why I personally would want to choose a golem when I clearly stated it was an arbitrarily picked example. It seems people have a hard time with hypotheticals here)
Much like religion or politics, you will never convince them otherwise. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20006
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 01:49:00 -
[128] - Quote
dadar wrote:a new pilot with say lvl 4 small hybrids agasint somebody with say lvl 4 small hybrid speclization is already at a 13% dmg disadvantage.
13% dmg is a huge advantage It's a lot smaller than the advantage the new player has if he puts those small-hybrid SP into electronic warfareGǪ GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
9150
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 02:14:00 -
[129] - Quote
Hasikan Miallok wrote:I do not think I have ever seen a HIC or Interdictor outside null ... ever. Interdictors (read: the Sabre) actually used to be quite common in low and sometimes high because destroyers had a hull "bonus" of 50% reduction in weapon damage. Interdictors never had that limitation.
Now T1 destroyers overshadow interdictors in cost effectiveness for combat outside of nullsec. They're a truly niche ship but one that serves a very important and significant role.
HICs are useful in lowsec because as previously mentioned, they're the only way to tackle supercaps in lowsec, and they can circumvent any number of warp core stabs on a ship to tackle them. "Pretty much all 14 of the CSM were in favor of a drone assign nerf for OBVIOUS gameplay reasons" - Sala Cameron
|
Sarcasim
Powder and Ball Alchemists Union The Predictables
10
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 04:05:00 -
[130] - Quote
Tippia wrote:E-2C Hawkeye wrote:I would have to agree with Malrikk here.
It removes the point of having skills to begin with. LOL what?? What is the purpose of having skills and skill training? Same purpose as having attributes that can be re-mapped. I hope your not suggesting because something can be re-mapped or reset that it renders it useless?
That would silly to say even by your standards Tippia. (even just for arguments sake)
There are many reasons this may not be a good idea, but to imply resetting or re-map of SP makes skills or skill training useless is not one of them.
I can see both sides of the coin here. Some people would benefit from a SP reset . People who made poor training choices early in their eve history for certain.
Bitter Vets with 10 years training under their belt, not so much.
Either way would be interesting to see. |
|
Johan Civire
The Lyran Empire
847
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 04:10:00 -
[131] - Quote
Long version for the answer is ? NOO
Short version for the answer is ? NO
|
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
4435
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 05:13:00 -
[132] - Quote
dadar wrote:Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:My ex had a druid in WoW.
She remapped the SP over 30 frikkin' times. that's impressive considering wow doen't even have sp you can't relate wow's talents even remotely to sp. now if she was able to switch classes without leveling a new one that would be closer but still way off as you can just level a new toon in wow in couple weeks some level 5 skills in eve take twice as long as it takes to level one char in wow to max level and for thos saying sp don't matter your just trolling to keep noobs playing with lies. if sp don't matter corps would not have a min amount to join. example two pilots flying same ship same mods and same level of piloting skills using same tactics no errors the pilot with the most sp wins a new pilot with say lvl 4 small hybrids agasint somebody with say lvl 4 small hybrid speclization is already at a 13% dmg disadvantage. 13% dmg is a huge advantage
I haven't played since late 2007 so I don't even know what anything was called anymore. Rum helps. Bring back DEEEEP Space! |
March rabbit
Federal Defense Union
1336
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 06:01:00 -
[133] - Quote
dadar wrote:Tippia wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:This game has no "try before you buy" regarding ships.
Someone may choose to want to fly a Golem. Why a golem? I don't know, this is just an example. Maybe whoever the guy is decided that a golem looked like it would be fun to fly. He could find out by getting any other Ravenkind. With one (very mild) exception, there is nothing in the game that requires a ton of SP that can't be explored using next to no SP at all. Putting more SP into it just makes it the same thing, but with more SP put into it GÇö the core usage patter or gameplay doesn't change. The mild exception is capships, since they require at least some kind of GÇ£teamworkGÇ¥ (that can be done on your own) but they're still just ships that use the same mechanics as every other ship in the game. The mistake people make is that they think they have to train a ton of stuff to try an activity out. They don't. That's just a silly myth born out of the same ignorance that gave birth to the GÇ£must train to V to be effectiveGÇ¥ idiocy. I am thinking of trying heavy interdictors out can you please point out the low sp way for me to try them out with out training the next 46 days to get into one? 1. try T1 cruiser (which is base of heavy interdictor of your chose) 2. play with bubbles in 0.0 3. play with interdictor 4. play with heavy-interdictor The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20013
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 07:01:00 -
[134] - Quote
Sarcasim wrote:Same purpose as having attributes that can be re-mapped. Close, but not quite. There's a crucial difference between attributes and skills: you are not removing you attributes and replacing their effect with something completely different forwards and backwards in history.
If you'll allow some semantic drift for a second, attributes are a mechanism that turn time into SP, whereas skills are effects of that mechanic. Altering the mechanism after the fact does not alter the effect it has already had GÇö only what effect it will have in the future. Altering the effects themselves, however, is akin to turning back time. At that point, the mechanism becomes meaningless because you can always turn back time and get a different, GÇ£betterGÇ¥, result.
The entire mechanism is bypassed and the effects themselves become quite meaningless because they're only a result of the moment rather than of the entire decision-making and SP-gathering process that led you to the result.
Quote:There are many reasons this may not be a good idea, but to imply resetting or re-map of SP makes skills or skill training useless is not one of them. It's not something I imply GÇö it's something I state as a fact because it is a very obvious result of being able to reverse, alter, and remake decisions you've made in the past. Or, wellGǪ to be a bit more pedantic, it doesn't render them useleess GÇö it renders them meaningless because they are infinitely mutable. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Spaeder
DEAD JESTERS The Harlequin's
0
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 08:18:00 -
[135] - Quote
No |
Dalloway Jones
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
189
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 11:14:00 -
[136] - Quote
I wear my stupid skill choices as a badge of noob honor. Don't you try to take them away from me! |
Jad-bal-jah
Nanashi no Geemu
2
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 12:36:00 -
[137] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:We currently receive 2 bonus remaps for each character. Why have remap at all? I can't change my expertise or IQ/EQ in real life without growing and studying, so why make it possible in game? Why have a jump clone at all? I cant jump to my body to work which is 509 jumps away. so why make it possible in game? |
Sophia Skinner
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 12:56:00 -
[138] - Quote
What if using this option also reset your learned skills to your noob character racial default, and you had to repurchase skill books? That could potentially make using your SP reset a costly decision, and could also be a nice ISK sink. This would also remove the abilty to have access to skills you shouldn't have because you no longer have the prereqs.
I'm curious how many people that think the OPs idea is terrible were also against training of multiple characters on the same account, but now think it's fine. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20024
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 13:16:00 -
[139] - Quote
Sophia Skinner wrote:What if using this option also reset your learned skills to your noob character racial default, and you had to repurchase skill books? Still causes all the same game-breaking issues. Money is trivially overcome. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Sarcasim
Powder and Ball Alchemists Union The Predictables
10
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 13:54:00 -
[140] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Sarcasim wrote:Same purpose as having attributes that can be re-mapped. Close, but not quite. There's a crucial difference between attributes and skills: you are not removing you attributes and replacing their effect with something completely different forwards and backwards in history. If you'll allow some semantic drift for a second, attributes are a mechanism that turn time into SP, whereas skills are effects of that mechanism. Altering the mechanism after the fact does not alter the effect it has already had GÇö only what effect it will have in the future. Altering the effects themselves, however, is akin to turning back time. At that point, the mechanism no longer has any real point because you can go back and get a different, GÇ£betterGÇ¥, result. The entire mechanism is bypassed and the effects themselves become quite meaningless because they're only a result of the moment rather than of the entire decision-making and SP-gathering process that led you to the result. Quote:There are many reasons this may not be a good idea, but to imply resetting or re-map of SP makes skills or skill training useless is not one of them. It's not something I imply GÇö it's something I state as a fact because it is a very obvious result of being able to reverse, alter, and remake decisions you've made in the past. Or, wellGǪ to be a bit more pedantic, it doesn't render them useleess GÇö it renders them meaningless because they are infinitely mutable.
Sorry there is no difference in what you imply or what you state. Both are wrong. Resetting SP would not make them useless or meaningless just because you donGÇÖt agree with it or like the suggestion.
It may not be in the best interest of the game to do so, but not for the silly reason you (state).
I have read enough of your post and seen how you conduct yourself on the forums to know that you enjoy arguing and would never admit to being wrong.
I will not become ensnared or entangled in your foolishness. Do not look for me to continue to engage in your Trollish methods.
|
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20029
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 14:01:00 -
[141] - Quote
Sarcasim wrote:Sorry there is no difference in what you imply or what you state. Both are wrong. Resetting SP would not make them useless or meaningless just because you donGÇÖt agree with it or like the suggestion. That's not what makes them meaningless. What makes them meaningless is that they no longer offer any distinction in abilities between characters and no longer represent a history of decisions made.
If you have a meaningful choice between A or B, and suddenly can have both at any time you want regardless of what you decided before, that initial choice is no longer meaningful. It is no longer an actual choice. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
E-2C Hawkeye
State War Academy Caldari State
523
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 14:26:00 -
[142] - Quote
Sarcasim wrote:Tippia wrote:Sarcasim wrote:Same purpose as having attributes that can be re-mapped. Close, but not quite. There's a crucial difference between attributes and skills: you are not removing you attributes and replacing their effect with something completely different forwards and backwards in history. If you'll allow some semantic drift for a second, attributes are a mechanism that turn time into SP, whereas skills are effects of that mechanism. Altering the mechanism after the fact does not alter the effect it has already had GÇö only what effect it will have in the future. Altering the effects themselves, however, is akin to turning back time. At that point, the mechanism no longer has any real point because you can go back and get a different, GÇ£betterGÇ¥, result. The entire mechanism is bypassed and the effects themselves become quite meaningless because they're only a result of the moment rather than of the entire decision-making and SP-gathering process that led you to the result. Quote:There are many reasons this may not be a good idea, but to imply resetting or re-map of SP makes skills or skill training useless is not one of them. It's not something I imply GÇö it's something I state as a fact because it is a very obvious result of being able to reverse, alter, and remake decisions you've made in the past. Or, wellGǪ to be a bit more pedantic, it doesn't render them useleess GÇö it renders them meaningless because they are infinitely mutable. Sorry there is no difference in what you imply or what you state. Both are wrong. Resetting SP would not make them useless or meaningless just because you donGÇÖt agree with it or like the suggestion. It may not be in the best interest of the game to do so, but not for the silly reason you (state). I have read enough of your post and seen how you conduct yourself on the forums to know that you enjoy arguing and would never admit to being wrong. I will not become ensnared or entangled in your foolishness. Do not look for me to continue to engage in your Trollish methods.
Chorus: |: I saw the light, :| I saw the light, No more darkness, No more night -, Now I'm so happy, No sorrow in sight. Praise the Lord, I saw the light.
|
Kaivar Lancer
Federal Defense Union
445
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 15:38:00 -
[143] - Quote
Yes.
I'm currently involved in PVP, but a HUGE portion of my skill points has been invested in mining from when I first started out. If I can have a neural remap, then a skill remap makes sense as well. But just like the OP said, provide some penalty to prevent abuse.
+1 |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
9151
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 16:08:00 -
[144] - Quote
Sarcasim wrote:Tippia wrote:Sarcasim wrote:Same purpose as having attributes that can be re-mapped. Close, but not quite. There's a crucial difference between attributes and skills: you are not removing you attributes and replacing their effect with something completely different forwards and backwards in history. If you'll allow some semantic drift for a second, attributes are a mechanism that turn time into SP, whereas skills are effects of that mechanism. Altering the mechanism after the fact does not alter the effect it has already had GÇö only what effect it will have in the future. Altering the effects themselves, however, is akin to turning back time. At that point, the mechanism no longer has any real point because you can go back and get a different, GÇ£betterGÇ¥, result. The entire mechanism is bypassed and the effects themselves become quite meaningless because they're only a result of the moment rather than of the entire decision-making and SP-gathering process that led you to the result. Quote:There are many reasons this may not be a good idea, but to imply resetting or re-map of SP makes skills or skill training useless is not one of them. It's not something I imply GÇö it's something I state as a fact because it is a very obvious result of being able to reverse, alter, and remake decisions you've made in the past. Or, wellGǪ to be a bit more pedantic, it doesn't render them useleess GÇö it renders them meaningless because they are infinitely mutable. Sorry there is no difference in what you imply or what you state. Both are wrong. Resetting SP would not make them useless or meaningless just because you donGÇÖt agree with it or like the suggestion. It may not be in the best interest of the game to do so, but not for the silly reason you (state). I have read enough of your post and seen how you conduct yourself on the forums to know that you enjoy arguing and would never admit to being wrong. I will not become ensnared or entangled in your foolishness. Do not look for me to continue to engage in your Trollish methods. Offering full remaps for skillpoints would absolutely make training skills meaningless. You'd switch from training skills to training skillpoints. Making decisions and living with the consequences of your decisions no longer applies. "Pretty much all 14 of the CSM were in favor of a drone assign nerf for OBVIOUS gameplay reasons" - Sala Cameron
|
Batelle
HOMELE55
2244
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 16:39:00 -
[145] - Quote
Sarcasim wrote:Sorry there is no difference in what you imply or what you state. Both are wrong. Resetting SP would not make them useless or meaningless just because you donGÇÖt agree with it or like the suggestion.
Sure it would. Everything I've trained before becomes irrelevant. All that matters is what my SP count is. While new players would still be training the skills they need as they play, I (having enough sp to cover all my basics) can comfortably switch my main and all my accounts into int/mem +5's, and stick to training useless science skills to level 5, just because it allows me to gain SP as rapidly as possible.
If I want to train an alt, I can do the same, and remap when he has enough SP to be "done" and remap into whatever I need at that time, or whatever happens to be in demand on the character bazaar. No thinking ahead about what kind of plan I need or what the alt will be for. Old players can already train alts faster than a new player can train his main, this would just make the advantage even bigger.
If you put 200 days of training into a golem without first using missiles ever, or using a raven ever, or using an SNI ever, then you're utterly foolish and no amount of skill remaps will make up for it, and at worst you've wasted very little of that time, as most of that time is in a host of core skills that will benefit multiple if not all ships. This example is too ridiculous to be taken seriously. Furthermore, there's this thing called the test server. It allows you to fly things before you buy them. If you sign up for scheduled and pre-announced SiSi mass tests, you get a couple mil of unallocated SP on the test server, specifically allowing you to test things before committing to them. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
Sarcasim
Powder and Ball Alchemists Union The Predictables
10
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 18:48:00 -
[146] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Sarcasim wrote:Tippia wrote:Sarcasim wrote:Same purpose as having attributes that can be re-mapped. Close, but not quite. There's a crucial difference between attributes and skills: you are not removing you attributes and replacing their effect with something completely different forwards and backwards in history. If you'll allow some semantic drift for a second, attributes are a mechanism that turn time into SP, whereas skills are effects of that mechanism. Altering the mechanism after the fact does not alter the effect it has already had GÇö only what effect it will have in the future. Altering the effects themselves, however, is akin to turning back time. At that point, the mechanism no longer has any real point because you can go back and get a different, GÇ£betterGÇ¥, result. The entire mechanism is bypassed and the effects themselves become quite meaningless because they're only a result of the moment rather than of the entire decision-making and SP-gathering process that led you to the result. Quote:There are many reasons this may not be a good idea, but to imply resetting or re-map of SP makes skills or skill training useless is not one of them. It's not something I imply GÇö it's something I state as a fact because it is a very obvious result of being able to reverse, alter, and remake decisions you've made in the past. Or, wellGǪ to be a bit more pedantic, it doesn't render them useleess GÇö it renders them meaningless because they are infinitely mutable. Sorry there is no difference in what you imply or what you state. Both are wrong. Resetting SP would not make them useless or meaningless just because you donGÇÖt agree with it or like the suggestion. It may not be in the best interest of the game to do so, but not for the silly reason you (state). I have read enough of your post and seen how you conduct yourself on the forums to know that you enjoy arguing and would never admit to being wrong. I will not become ensnared or entangled in your foolishness. Do not look for me to continue to engage in your Trollish methods. Offering full remaps for skillpoints would absolutely make training skills meaningless. You'd switch from training skills to training skillpoints. Making decisions and living with the consequences of your decisions no longer applies. I could see the potential for abuse perhaps. However SP are a set amount and the time invested is the time invested. Six months of training cant be traded in for 10 months of training.
You wouldn't be able to train for the FOTM if you only get one reset a year or one reset a lifetime, it would be FOTY (flavor of the year)
If I were to use this same thought process you offer I would have to argue against selling pilots for the same reasons. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20041
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 18:55:00 -
[147] - Quote
Sarcasim wrote:You wouldn't be able to train for the FOTM if you only get one reset a year or one reset a lifetime, it would be FOTY (flavor of the year) Yes you would. You only put the SP back in that you need GÇö the rest you leave sloshing around in the SP pool for whenever something new comes up. When the FOTM changes, you use those free SP to instantly get it.
This is why the whole idea effectively removes skills completely: any time you want something, you instantly have it. Or, wellGǪ any time an older player wants something, he'll instantly have it. New players are surprise-butt-sexed in every way. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
|
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1002
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 20:33:00 -
[148] - Quote
This proposal should be moved to Features & Ideas Discussion. But as there already have been a lot of proposals in that part of the forum similar to this one, it would get a lock for being redundant. So I might as well lock it here.
The rules: 16. Redundant and re-posted threads will be locked.
As a courtesy to other forum users, please search to see if there is a thread already open on the topic you wish to discuss. If so, please place your comments there instead. Multiple threads on the same subject clutter up the forums needlessly, causing good feedback and ideas to be lost. Please keep discussions regarding a topic to a single thread. ISD Ezwal Commander Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 [5] :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |