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Can we get the option to remap our skill points?

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Aivo Dresden Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 289	Posted - 2014.03.13 15:32:00 - [61] - Quote This sh*t again? The other 454 threads we've had on this weren't enough yet?
Aimy Maulerant Coreli Corporation Ineluctable. 21	Posted - 2014.03.13 15:34:00 - [62] - Quote Scipio Artelius wrote: Malrikk wrote: Neural remap and skill point remap should remain exclusive of one another. I'm not asking for a change to neural remapping, just the addition of a skill point remap. But I don't believe it should be free, a 10% loss in skill points sounds balanced to me. Seems illogical to me. I don't want to be a scientist anymore, I want to be a plumber. Please don't make me study, just convert my scientific knowledge into plumbing and local planning knowledge. Doesn't really work as far as I'm concerned. Sorry. because flying spaceships with rocket launchers and cloaking devices is soo similar to what happens in real life i mean how could you ever remap a skillset in a game if you couldnt do it in real life
Lyelle Wolf Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 16	Posted - 2014.03.13 15:38:00 - [63] - Quote I, for one, Like this idea +1
Aimy Maulerant Coreli Corporation Ineluctable. 21	Posted - 2014.03.13 15:41:00 - [64] - Quote certainly benefit new players who dont have wasted some sp at the start of the game
Stitcher Alexylva Paradox 3295	Posted - 2014.03.13 15:42:00 - [65] - Quote There is no such thing as a wasted skillpoint. There are only skillpoints that you are not using right now. An in-character blog and a video: http://verinsjournal.blogspot.com http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu1mbsgo738
Batelle HOMELE55 2228	Posted - 2014.03.13 15:45:00 - [66] - Quote Its a bit funny seeing divine intervention out in favor of something that would provide incredible benefits to old players and nothing at all to new players. Old players have large amounts of raw SP and plenty of isk to buy plexes. New players generally don't have much of either, and spend most of their time training skills they would never ever want to remap anyway (core level 4's and 5s). With one character I could be a max skilled indy person, a titan pilot, have all subcap skills maxed, or shuffle easily into a max leadership booster role. All for the low low price of one plex. It would also crash the demand for alts and characters on the charater bazar, and also signficiantly hurt CCPs revenue. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!" Never forget.
Good Posting Posting with my Mind 119	Posted - 2014.03.13 15:49:00 - [67] - Quote I was thinking in the pros and cons if this is implemented while reading the thread, but since (almost) everyone is upset for some reason i don't know yet, then probably this isn't a bad idea. I wouldn't use this service because i'm ok with my skill point distribution, but maybe this would be a nice help to other people. Also, people like to talk a lot about consecuences. In a game plagued with alts, yeah.
Aimy Maulerant Coreli Corporation Ineluctable. 21	Posted - 2014.03.13 15:52:00 - [68] - Quote Stitcher wrote: There is no such thing as a wasted skillpoint. There are only skillpoints that you are not using right now. i hear it all the time when looking to buy characters
Owen Levanth Federated Deep Space Explorations 91	Posted - 2014.03.13 15:54:00 - [69] - Quote Tippia wrote: Owen Levanth wrote: Also I think you didn't think my proposal really through. Every time you remap, you lose 10% of those skill points you want to remap. Every single time. Which means you lose more and more the more often you remap. There is no way to abuse this, except if you define abuse as "******* yourself over". In a year, you earn 23,652,000 SP. If you have 236,520,000 SP (that's more than half of the SP it is possible to ever train and a large part of that maximum is SP that has absolutely no use whatsoever) and remap all of them, you lose 10% and up with as many SP as you had at the start of the year. You lose nothing and you can fit everything you'd ever need into that buffer. So there's no reason to ever do anything other than remap your full amount because you will never operate at a loss. Your best option is always to abuse the hell out of it and get as much free SP as you possibly could to be ready for any and all eventualities. The only way to **** yourself over is to not remap as soon as possible as much as possible. Thus: 30M or 80% loss, whichever is higher, anything less and it's too good a deal (and I'm not convinced even that is high enough a price). Eh, I'm not convinced. But I'm tired of arguing in favor of something I'm not really in favor of myself. A last proposal: -Remaps only possible once a year and only up to 5 different skills at once. -Complete remaps will never be allowed. -A remap costs at least a PLEX to use. -You lose 10% of the skill points you want to remap. So, problem solved.
Batelle HOMELE55 2230	Posted - 2014.03.13 15:56:00 - [70] - Quote Owen Levanth wrote: A last proposal: -Remaps only possible once a year and only up to 5 different skills at once. -Complete remaps will never be allowed. -A remap costs at least a PLEX to use. -You lose 10% of the skill points you want to remap. So, problem solved. Wouldn't even be worth doing at all. How about you pay a plex to completely remove a skill, with zero reimbursement. Then no one gets remaps CCP gets to make money off of OCD persons. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!" Never forget.

Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 19954	Posted - 2014.03.13 15:58:00 - [71] - Quote Owen Levanth wrote: So, problem solved. That's just it: there is no problem. Remapping is a mechanic meant to patch a design flaw that the EVE skill system has already avoided through other means. It comes from games that are designed around ability lock-in and path restrictions, where remaps are needed to get out of those restrictions. EVE never had those restrictions to begin with so transplanting this GÇ£solutionGÇ¥ from those games only ever manages to transplant the problems those systems have without ever solving anything because, again, the solution was already built into the way skilling in EVE works. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1.
Stitcher Alexylva Paradox 3296	Posted - 2014.03.13 16:06:00 - [72] - Quote Aimy Maulerant wrote: Stitcher wrote: There is no such thing as a wasted skillpoint. There are only skillpoints that you are not using right now. i hear it all the time when looking to buy characters Because it's true. An in-character blog and a video: http://verinsjournal.blogspot.com http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu1mbsgo738
baltec1 Bat Country Goonswarm Federation 10363	Posted - 2014.03.13 16:18:00 - [73] - Quote Aimy Maulerant wrote: certainly benefit new players who dont have wasted some sp at the start of the game No it wont. it will be most abused by the people with large pools of SP to jump into whatever is the new FOTM. Every single time people like you demand a change and use new players as the reason to do it and every single time we find that it will not benefit new players at all but will give even more power to the bittervets. this idea is not new and is just as bad now as it was ten years ago. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
Suned Viziam Amarr Empire 2	Posted - 2014.03.13 16:20:00 - [74] - Quote I don't think this is a good idea. The skill points you invest in your character is part of your history and you should not change eve history. It's permanent just like anything else
Good Posting Posting with my Mind 119	Posted - 2014.03.13 16:21:00 - [75] - Quote Bittervets already can fly the cool ship of the season. I'm not a bittervet and i can fly any t2 frigate and t2 cruiser with t2 guns.
Sven Viko VIkolander Aliastra Gallente Federation 129	Posted - 2014.03.13 16:23:00 - [76] - Quote I've been an advocate for a very limited type of skill reset since I started playing EVE and wasted a bunch of time training mining skills. I think they should add a skill "Remap" system comparable to the neural remap system--very, very limited and primarily aimed at helping newer players once they figure out what type of gameplay they enjoy. My idea for this is that new players would be given 2 skill remaps, with one more available once a year, and it would remap only one level of one skill per use--perfect for resetting that Astrometics V, for instance. So I vote "c" with a pretty please added in.
Benny Ohu Beneath the Ashes Margin of Silence 2663	Posted - 2014.03.13 16:29:00 - [77] - Quote Stitcher wrote: There is no such thing as a wasted skillpoint. There are only skillpoints that you are not using right now. COUGHdefender missiles
baltec1 Bat Country Goonswarm Federation 10365	Posted - 2014.03.13 16:29:00 - [78] - Quote Good Posting wrote: Bittervets already can fly the cool ship of the season. I'm not a bittervet and i can fly any t2 frigate and t2 cruiser with t2 guns. Just think how many dreads we could have dumped on the slowcat fleet from day one if we had this. Rather than having one fleet several months leter we could have dumped 5 of them a week after PL/N3 showed their hand. not only would this idea remove the conciquences of chosing a poor skill plan but it would break the game in horrible ways in our hands. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
Gizznitt Malikite Agony Unleashed Agony Empire 3680	Posted - 2014.03.13 16:32:00 - [79] - Quote Sorry, there is no way I support remapping your skill points. You already benefited from the skillpoints you have previously trained. It doesn't matter if you use them currently or not, they still have potential benefit to you. I see no reason to allow you to instantly remap those skillpoints to a new skillset. Train the new skills if you want new skills.
Good Posting Posting with my Mind 119	Posted - 2014.03.13 16:35:00 - [80] - Quote Looking from your point of view (sov null warfare), then i have to agree with you, baltec.

Aivo Dresden Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 290	Posted - 2014.03.13 16:41:00 - [81] - Quote Scipio Artelius wrote: It don't. My mammy taught me, two wrongs don't make a right! Get rid of neural remaps too. To be honest, in the earlier years of EVE it wasn't possible to remap either. It's a fairly new concept that. You couldn't even pick your starting attributes. They were automatically assigned according to the bloodline you had selected. Speaking of things having Consequences, in that way character creation was very unforgiving.
dadar 24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire 4	Posted - 2014.03.13 16:52:00 - [82] - Quote i am all for this myself it would fix the major downside that new players have. the amount of skills in this game is overwhelming for a new player there are so many skills so many paths to chose from picking the wrong skills at the wrong time can set your over all plan back months. new players don't know what they should be training giving or selling a reset wouldn't be a bad thing and the framework to do it is already in place with the ablity to give free sp and the removal of the learning skills this would be very easy to implement. the only downside I see is when folks join corps they will go over that persons skills an prob tell them they have to reset and train such and such skills etc in the future.
Norian Lonark Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance 125	Posted - 2014.03.13 16:56:00 - [83] - Quote horrible horrible idea. New players have a real hang up about needing all the skill points and never being able to catch up, its a total nonsense. If everyone could just change their skills on the fly to be uber at what they wanted for that particular time of the month or fleet it would destroy a massive aspect of the game. Instant reward and gratification no choices have impact etc etc etc. If ever anything like this or buying skill points was in the progress I would quit. It may as well be wow, lets all go out and buy a lvl 90 character or whatever as I don't want to wait. Horrible. _____________________________________ Start wide, expand further, and never look back
Malrikk Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 5	Posted - 2014.03.13 17:02:00 - [84] - Quote Reading everyone's discussion points on this topic is certainly interesting. Admittedly I don't have much time online in Eve, but it's becoming quite apparent that "skill" in this game is directly tied to how many skills you have, and where they are allocated. I see veterans not liking the idea because it will give other people an edge over them, or create an environment of fair play. That is the only logical conclusion from this behavior, as it isn't a mandatory retraining every year. Even Tippia confirmed this in an earlier post tippia wrote: It hurts my gameplay by removing all skill progression. Once you have enough SP GÇö after no more than a year or two GÇö you can remap it to cover anything and everything in the game as if you had been playing for 20 years. It hurts my gameplay by turning the game into an XP/Level-grinding game rather than a game where thoughtful application of training time gives me an edge over those who weren't thoughtful. I never really understood that. If that is truly the driving "skill" behind being a good combat pilot in Eve Online, then it's time I reevaluate some things. Even so I stand behind this idea for reasons I've already stated.
Brainless Bimbo Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 72	Posted - 2014.03.13 17:07:00 - [85] - Quote Malrikk wrote: I started playing Eve a long time ago on and off, as my understanding of the game has grown my desires in-game have changed. My skills are a cluster of clutter from mining to a plethora of various random skills. For instance mining, it was one of the first things I trained and have regretted it ever since. I would love to be able to put those skill points into something else. I propose a skill remap, possibly a one year timer on it, and it would cost roughly 10% of your skill points as the remap is rather dangerous and memory loss has been known to happen. I believe this would balance out the remap and only the most desperate like myself would use it. Eve-Online is a complicated game, and brutal on the newbies, this would go a long way to help some of us out who made a lot of bad decisions early on. It saddens me to see threads like this, it honestly does, but the scenario happens to a large proportion of people who just don-¦t get what eve is when they start, but once you get EvE its too late, so do what i did and biomass your character and its shameful traits so you can reuse your name. If you do not want to go down that route as you may consider it extreme you can just HTFU and take responsibility of being too slow on the understanding of the game concepts and like a sentient being live with it without complaint. Wanting to change long established game rules because of your own inadequacies is pretty lame to be brutally honest with you, the reality of whatever you do has consequences and they will forever follow you until your character gets bio massed or you quit is a selling point (or used to be) and what makes you a class above other lesser gamers. You have not spent a lot of time on this proposal, it has the intellectual depth of a libatarian, looks like a winner, but when you actually think about what it does the true horror become+ƒ apparent and no sane person would consider it already dead, just haven-¦t fallen over yet....
baltec1 Bat Country Goonswarm Federation 10368	Posted - 2014.03.13 17:10:00 - [86] - Quote Malrikk wrote: I see veterans not liking the idea because it will give other people an edge over them Wrong. We would have an even greater edge over new players as we could abuse this to get into whatever the new FOTM is instantly. The new player would still be getting slaughtered by us while us bittervets will be able to instantly swap into the next overpowered mess with the click of a button. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 19960	Posted - 2014.03.13 17:13:00 - [87] - Quote Malrikk wrote: Reading everyone's discussion points on this topic is certainly interesting. Admittedly I don't have much time online in Eve, but it's becoming quite apparent that "skill" in this game is directly tied to how many skills you have, and where they are allocated. Yeah, no. If that were the case, we wouldn't have these people who take a trial alt out on day 1 and murder people to bits. The only thing that makes it GÇ£apparentGÇ¥ to you is your lack of time in the game GÇö reality and history has consistently proven you wrong for over a decade now. Quote: I see veterans not liking the idea because it will give other people an edge over them, or create an environment of fair play. You need to visit an optometrist then, or possibly get a prescription for some anti-hallucinant. What you're seeing is veterans disliking the idea because they understand the skill system and how the idea will utterly break it to give them massive advantages over other players, removing all semblance of fair play. This idea transforms EVE's skill system from one where GÇ£catching upGÇ¥ isn't even an applicable concept and where newbies will handily destroy opponents of any age into one where the only thing that matters is how high your GÇ£levelGÇ¥ is. Quote: Even Tippia confirmed this in an earlier post You mean the post that has nothing to do with being a veteran and not, but about making [i]good decisions/i] and not? No, it does not confirm your perception. Quite the opposite, in fact. Quote: If that is truly the driving "skill" behind being a good combat pilot in Eve Online, then it's time I reevaluate some things. Goods news, then, that it isn't and has never claimed to be (other than by those who think that SP somehow matter and want to alter the skill system because they believe they can benefit from itGÇª). GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1.
Aivo Dresden Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 292	Posted - 2014.03.13 17:17:00 - [88] - Quote Malrikk wrote: I see veterans not liking the idea because it will give other people an edge over them, or create an environment of fair play. That is the only logical conclusion from this behavior, as it isn't a mandatory retraining every year. Even Tippia confirmed this in an earlier post That's incorrect. There are only so many skillpoints you can put in to something. Once you've matched that you're even. That doesn't take long at all. Besides, only idiots think like that. If you think you'll suddenly have an edge because you have redistributed your skill points, you're mistaken. Malrikk wrote: tippia wrote: It hurts my game play by removing all skill progression. Once you have enough SP GÇö after no more than a year or two GÇö you can remap it to cover anything and everything in the game as if you had been playing for 20 years. It hurts my game play by turning the game into an XP/Level-grinding game rather than a game where thoughtful application of training time gives me an edge over those who weren't thoughtful. I never really understood that. If that is truly the driving "skill" behind being a good combat pilot in Eve Online, then it's time I reevaluate some things. Even so I stand behind this idea for reasons I've already stated. Tippia never said that, you're just putting words in her mouth. She said that 40m-50m SP would be enough to basically instantly remap to anything you want. At that point there's no difference between character ages at all, kind of trivializing skill points. The only thing this is on your side is impatience and desire for instant gratification. Really tell us, what is the skill you want now that you can't be bothered to train and wait for? And yes, it is time to reevaluate some things, but not about the skill system. You should go reevaluate your game choice. If you lack patience, EVE isn't the game for you.
I Riven I Hedion University Amarr Empire 7	Posted - 2014.03.13 17:18:00 - [89] - Quote plex for remap
Othran Route One 681	Posted - 2014.03.13 17:25:00 - [90] - Quote Mmmm yes this will benefit newer players I'm sure I couldn't (for example) dump a load of shield skills on one alt, armour on another and end up with 2 "uber-alts" for no cost at all. The OP has no idea of what he gibbers about. End of.



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