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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |

Aih-Li Tahn
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
14
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 21:46:00 -
[1] - Quote
I understand eve is free and no rules and blah blah blah. this isnt about ccp or how they manage stuff ... this is about comunity and how full of bad ppl it is! u cant even turn around without running into somone trying to take advantage of u with a lie or something! and its almost always not even for profit or money but just beign EVIL! i mean.... i once join a ""mining/industry"" corp and in 10 mins they try to gank my freighter with alot of battleships, why? and then i almost lose a orca with nothing expensive in hold or fit because of gank? i kno harasment is not alowed (even if alot of other stuff is) so is this even reportable? anyway thats not the point, its more..... whyy?? why do ppl go to self harm ways to hurt others? is this how pleyers act IRL too? is eve space australia? |

masternerdguy
State Protectorate Caldari State
1455
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 21:47:00 -
[2] - Quote
Because this is just a game, and your in-game actions do not reflect your real world ones. Things are only impossible until they are not. |

Domanique Altares
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
2542
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 21:48:00 -
[3] - Quote
Aih-Li Tahn wrote: is eve space australia?
The ****?
You been watching too many movies, mate. Rifterlings pirate corporation is now recruitng members for lowsec PvP operations. Newbie friendly, free T1 frigate and dessy hangar, solo tutoring and PvP classes for new members. Join our in game channel 'weflyrifters' and speak to a recruiter today. |

Aih-Li Tahn
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
14
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 21:49:00 -
[4] - Quote
masternerdguy wrote:Because this is just a game, and your in-game actions do not reflect your real world ones. but your the same person! |

March rabbit
Federal Defense Union
1334
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 21:49:00 -
[5] - Quote
because other games don't allow such things and people come here to do it  The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
|

Aih-Li Tahn
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
14
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 21:50:00 -
[6] - Quote
Domanique Altares wrote:[quote=
The ****?
You been watching too many movies, mate.[/quote] its called history and how australia was created, learn to read dude  |

masternerdguy
State Protectorate Caldari State
1455
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 21:51:00 -
[7] - Quote
Aih-Li Tahn wrote:masternerdguy wrote:Because this is just a game, and your in-game actions do not reflect your real world ones. but your the same person!
Patrick Steward is the same person as Jean-Luc Picard? Amanda Tapping is the same person as Samantha Carter? Tara Strong is the same person as Twilight Sparkle?
Fascinating. Things are only impossible until they are not. |

Frank Millar
478
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 21:51:00 -
[8] - Quote
0/10.
I think WoW is more to your liking. Biomass yourself and go there.  |

Aih-Li Tahn
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
14
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 21:53:00 -
[9] - Quote
masternerdguy wrote:Aih-Li Tahn wrote:masternerdguy wrote:Because this is just a game, and your in-game actions do not reflect your real world ones. but your the same person! Patrick Stewart is the same person as Jean-Luc Picard? Amanda Tapping is the same person as Samantha Carter? Tara Strong is the same person as Twilight Sparkle? Fascinating. eve is a movie with pro actors? sory, i thought it was a game ppl play to relax and meet ppl sooooorry didnt realize lol |

Chopper Rollins
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
562
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 21:54:00 -
[10] - Quote
Aih-Li Tahn wrote:... is eve space australia?
Look Skip! An idiot! Get out of high sec.
Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good. |

Domanique Altares
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
2542
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 21:54:00 -
[11] - Quote
Aih-Li Tahn wrote:masternerdguy wrote:Aih-Li Tahn wrote:masternerdguy wrote:Because this is just a game, and your in-game actions do not reflect your real world ones. but your the same person! Patrick Stewart is the same person as Jean-Luc Picard? Amanda Tapping is the same person as Samantha Carter? Tara Strong is the same person as Twilight Sparkle? Fascinating. eve is a movie with pro actors? sory, i thought it was a game ppl play to relax and meet ppl  sooooorry didnt realize lol
Apparently EVE is a penal colony with pro debtors. Rifterlings pirate corporation is now recruitng members for lowsec PvP operations. Newbie friendly, free T1 frigate and dessy hangar, solo tutoring and PvP classes for new members. Join our in game channel 'weflyrifters' and speak to a recruiter today. |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19978
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 21:55:00 -
[12] - Quote
Because it makes it a better game. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |

masternerdguy
State Protectorate Caldari State
1455
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 21:56:00 -
[13] - Quote
Aih-Li Tahn wrote:masternerdguy wrote:Aih-Li Tahn wrote:masternerdguy wrote:Because this is just a game, and your in-game actions do not reflect your real world ones. but your the same person! Patrick Stewart is the same person as Jean-Luc Picard? Amanda Tapping is the same person as Samantha Carter? Tara Strong is the same person as Twilight Sparkle? Fascinating. eve is a movie with pro actors? sory, i thought it was a game ppl play to relax and meet ppl  sooooorry didnt realize lol
Lets try some Macbeth then.
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player that struts and frets his hour upon the stage And then is heard no more, it is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing. Things are only impossible until they are not. |

Aih-Li Tahn
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
14
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 21:59:00 -
[14] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Because it makes it a better game. how? it just ruins ppls days and make them vinditive and angry irl, and the gankers and bad guys get worse irl too
masternerdguy wrote:Lets try some Macbeth then.
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player That struts and frets his hour upon the stage And then is heard no more, it is a tale Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, Signifying nothing. wtf???? wat are u even saying!? lol |

masternerdguy
State Protectorate Caldari State
1455
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 22:00:00 -
[15] - Quote
Aih-Li Tahn wrote: wtf???? wat are u even saying!? lol
/thread Things are only impossible until they are not. |

DaReaper
Net 7 The Last Brigade
243
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 22:02:00 -
[16] - Quote
Because, every human has a dark side, there is prolly someone in your lift you would of punched in the face when annoyed but don't/won't because you are afraid of the consequences (i.e. jail, being sued) or its frowned upon in society.
Humans are naturally violent, but we turn to curb it because its not civil.
In a world with no consequences, cause honestly its a game, you are free to unleash whatever dark part you wish. So why not? If I melt your hull and blow your pod to dust because you looked at me funny, does that do anything to you in real life? Nope, so i'll do it.
If I want to remove a fool from his isk, does that send me to jail? no? then sure! There have been tons of people in the real world that I face palm at and would love to remove them of there hard earned money. But I don't.
EvE is a game, you can do what you want, be want you want. Explore any odd personality kick you have had because its fun to explore those in a 'safe' environment. This is like asking your husband/wife/bf/gf/FWB why they like to be tied up and smacked with a whip. Because its fun, and to them the environment is safe. If I kill you in eve you still live irl.
I'm a nice guy irl, and a tad too nice in eve, but even I occasionally just want to melt someone's hull for no reason. |

Aih-Li Tahn
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
14
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 22:02:00 -
[17] - Quote
pls troll somewher else, im trying to have a discusion why do ppl always like ruining and being destructive even on forums... i just realize its not just ingame |

Divine Entervention
The Advent of Faith Against ALL Anomalies
119
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 22:03:00 -
[18] - Quote
Aih-Li Tahn wrote:I understand eve is free and no rules and blah blah blah. this isnt about ccp or how they manage stuff ... this is about comunity and how full of bad ppl it is! u cant even turn around without running into somone trying to take advantage of u with a lie or something! and its almost always not even for profit or money but just beign EVIL! i mean.... i once join a ""mining/industry"" corp and in 10 mins they try to gank my freighter with alot of battleships, why? and then i almost lose a orca with nothing expensive in hold or fit because of gank? i kno harasment is not alowed (even if alot of other stuff is) so is this even reportable? anyway thats not the point, its more..... whyy?? why do ppl go to self harm ways to hurt others? is this how pleyers act IRL too? is eve space australia?
Because they're bad people. CCP set up an environment where bad people can do bad things. Being unable to do bad things IRL because of consequence, they flock to this game as an outlet to be their true selves.
But that's what makes people like you and I that much better at life and for the game. Because even in a cesspool of filth, we remain clean.
They're illogical and irrational. There's no other explanation. Trying to understand is a waste of your time. |

Caviar Liberta
Moira. Villore Accords
487
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 22:03:00 -
[19] - Quote
masternerdguy wrote:Aih-Li Tahn wrote:masternerdguy wrote:Because this is just a game, and your in-game actions do not reflect your real world ones. but your the same person! Patrick Stewart is the same person as Jean-Luc Picard? Amanda Tapping is the same person as Samantha Carter? Tara Strong is the same person as Twilight Sparkle? Fascinating. Yes and Arnold Schwarzenegger is really a terminator. |

Domanique Altares
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
2543
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 22:07:00 -
[20] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Because even in a cesspool of filth, we remain clean.
And yet you're still playing in a cesspool of filth.
Isn't that a bit like getting off to scat **** solely because it's perfectly clean from this side of the monitor? Rifterlings pirate corporation is now recruitng members for lowsec PvP operations. Newbie friendly, free T1 frigate and dessy hangar, solo tutoring and PvP classes for new members. Join our in game channel 'weflyrifters' and speak to a recruiter today. |

Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
3098
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 22:10:00 -
[21] - Quote
Oh, and it's not reportable, or, to put it correctly, it's not actionable.
If you want to give the GMs a good laugh, you're welcome to try. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á
Psychotic Monk for CSM9.
|

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19978
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 22:11:00 -
[22] - Quote
Aih-Li Tahn wrote:Tippia wrote:Because it makes it a better game. how? By providing some actual opposition to overcome rather than some trivially solvable automated simulation of resistance.
Divine Entervention wrote:Because they're bad people. CCP set up an environment where bad people can do bad things. Being unable to do bad things IRL because of consequence, they flock to this game as an outlet to be their true selves. Do you have anything to support this nonsensical dribble? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |

Aih-Li Tahn
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
14
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 22:14:00 -
[23] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Aih-Li Tahn wrote:I understand eve is free and no rules and blah blah blah. this isnt about ccp or how they manage stuff ... this is about comunity and how full of bad ppl it is! u cant even turn around without running into somone trying to take advantage of u with a lie or something! and its almost always not even for profit or money but just beign EVIL! i mean.... i once join a ""mining/industry"" corp and in 10 mins they try to gank my freighter with alot of battleships, why? and then i almost lose a orca with nothing expensive in hold or fit because of gank? i kno harasment is not alowed (even if alot of other stuff is) so is this even reportable? anyway thats not the point, its more..... whyy?? why do ppl go to self harm ways to hurt others? is this how pleyers act IRL too? is eve space australia? Because they're bad people. CCP set up an environment where bad people can do bad things. Being unable to do bad things IRL because of consequence, they flock to this game as an outlet to be their true selves. But that's what makes people like you and I that much better at life and for the game. Because even in a cesspool of filth, we remain clean. They're illogical and irrational. There's no other explanation. Trying to understand is a waste of your time. its weird because i try to not judge andput ppl in boxes and be mean myself but sometimes its imposible? sometimes some ppl just need some real help irl cause they try to hurt others for n oreason..... i dont know the name for it but i think thats serious
point is this thread, with all hate and anger for a simple question and no answer without 'lol just because' |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
269
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 22:15:00 -
[24] - Quote
I would like nothing better than to ruin your day in EVE.
Is that a problem for you? |

Aih-Li Tahn
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
14
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 22:18:00 -
[25] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:I would like nothing better than to ruin your day in EVE.
Is that a problem for you? lol just try its more a problem with u i think but i guess im not a doctor so i dunno... y are so many ppl in eve mesed up like this? |

masternerdguy
State Protectorate Caldari State
1456
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 22:18:00 -
[26] - Quote
You want to know what is really funny about these kinds of threads? The authors don't seem to realize that EVE is actually a game about friendship and cooperation.
If you want to do anything worth doing, you need to make friends. Whether this is industry, market manipulation, or PVP, having friends will make achieving the goal significantly easier. Consider any large alliance or coalition, they only control their space because they have so many people working together towards a common goal.
Just like in the real world, with friendship and hard work people can accomplish anything. There is strength and numbers, and having lots of people means you have a wide talent pool to draw from. And if the goal is worth achieving, there will be plenty of people who want to help make it happen.
On any given day I'd rather have friends than skill. Things are only impossible until they are not. |

Erotica 1
Krypteia Operations CODE.
4273
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 22:18:00 -
[27] - Quote
Another fine candidate for Star Citizen, which comes out "soon" (though we'll be paying you a visit there.)
Who wants his stuff? See Bio for isk doubling rules. If you didn't read bio, chances are you funded those who did. |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19978
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 22:18:00 -
[28] - Quote
Aih-Li Tahn wrote:point is this thread, with all hate and anger for a simple question and no answer without 'lol just because' Well, if you hadn't come right out of the gate with said hate and anger, people would have been less likely to respond in kindGǪ GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
269
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 22:19:00 -
[29] - Quote
Aih-Li Tahn wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:I would like nothing better than to ruin your day in EVE.
Is that a problem for you? lol just try  its more a problem with u i think but i guess im not a doctor so i dunno... y are so many ppl in eve mesed up like this?
Why is it a problem with me? My behavior is not a problem for me. It makes me happy.
Maybe you are the one with a problem, because you are so sad and upset? |

Aih-Li Tahn
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
14
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 22:20:00 -
[30] - Quote
if its all about firendship y is everyone an enemy with each other? its what im trying to ask to explain here 
and no ero im not goign to star citizen... at lest yet? lost alot of money preorder duke nukem and im not trusting devs with promises now |

Aih-Li Tahn
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
14
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 22:21:00 -
[31] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Aih-Li Tahn wrote:point is this thread, with all hate and anger for a simple question and no answer without 'lol just because' Well, if you hadn't come right out of the gate with said hate and anger, people would have been less likely to respond in kindGǪ uhhhh where m i hating and anger? i just describe whats hapening and ask why... i think its in ur head |

Dain Rokjaw
Shotguns and Duct Tape
22
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 22:21:00 -
[32] - Quote
Aih-Li Tahn wrote:pls troll somewher else, im trying to have a discusion  why do ppl always like ruining and being destructive even on forums... i just realize its not just ingame
Discussion implies the invitation of comment and acknowledgement of counterpoint. You're just rebutting all evidence and flaunting your own ignorance.
Oh and bonus points for the passive-aggressive "its weird because i try to not judge and put ppl in boxes" right after referring to a game which includes cutthroat activity and criminal intent as "space Australia".
.
Whoops. Fed the troll. Meh. |

EvEa Deva
Forum Alt Retort
467
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 22:21:00 -
[33] - Quote
I will admit sometimes i just want to chill and do something easy in EvE, and then some A-hole ruins it.
But the fear of loss is what makes this game great, danger of losing a ship or pod, if you got blown up and just respawned at the station what fun would that be?
|

masternerdguy
State Protectorate Caldari State
1456
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 22:22:00 -
[34] - Quote
Aih-Li Tahn wrote:if its all about firendship y is everyone an enemy with each other? its what im trying to ask to explain here  and no ero im not goign to star citizen... at lest yet? lost alot of money preorder duke nukem and im not trusting devs with promises now
It would be foolish to think that every group is always going to get along with every other group. Like in real life. Things are only impossible until they are not. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
269
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 22:22:00 -
[35] - Quote
Aih-Li Tahn wrote:if its all about firendship y is everyone an enemy with each other?
Where the **** ** ** ***** ******* * * ****** did you get it into your head that EVE is all about firendship?
Who told you this? Are you 12? |

masternerdguy
State Protectorate Caldari State
1456
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 22:22:00 -
[36] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Aih-Li Tahn wrote:if its all about firendship y is everyone an enemy with each other? Where the **** ** ** ***** ******* * * ****** did you get it into your head that EVE is all about firendship? Who told you this? Are you 12?
Maybe he read my post  Things are only impossible until they are not. |

Harrison Tato
Barringtons Research
39
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 22:24:00 -
[37] - Quote
If this was Space Australia we would be fishing drunks out of the gutter every half hour. |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19978
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 22:25:00 -
[38] - Quote
Aih-Li Tahn wrote:if its all about firendship y is everyone an enemy with each other? its what im trying to ask to explain here  Have you ever played monopoly? Or checkers? Or bridge? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |

Aih-Li Tahn
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
14
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 22:25:00 -
[39] - Quote
EvEa Deva wrote:I will admit sometimes i just want to chill and do something easy in EvE, and then some A-hole ruins it.
But the fear of loss is what makes this game great, danger of losing a ship or pod, if you got blown up and just respawned at the station what fun would that be?
im ok with blowing up and losing stuff but it makes no sense to blow ppl up and hate them at expending ur own money and time just to do something evil, so i just dont understand whats in ppls heads. |

Aih-Li Tahn
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
14
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 22:26:00 -
[40] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Aih-Li Tahn wrote:if its all about firendship y is everyone an enemy with each other? its what im trying to ask to explain here  Have you ever played monopoly? Or checkers? Or bridge? working together in games like that means losing, working together in eve is winning, and ppl are hostiler in eve for some reason... do u know why? |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19980
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 22:27:00 -
[41] - Quote
Aih-Li Tahn wrote:working together in games like that means losing So you haven't played the games I mentioned.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |

Dain Rokjaw
Shotguns and Duct Tape
22
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 22:28:00 -
[42] - Quote
Harrison Tato wrote:If this was Space Australia we would be fishing drunks out of the gutter every half hour.
This is EVE. We'd give them a ladder out of the gutter which actually led to a deeper pool - then take bets on which one will drown first, and try to sell the rest a life-ring in a scam contract.  |

Aih-Li Tahn
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
14
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 22:30:00 -
[43] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Aih-Li Tahn wrote:working together in games like that means losing So you haven't played the games I mentioned. how do u work together in a 2-player game? ur making no sense. pls explain without hyperbola pls |

Claud Tiberius
Caldari Colonial Defense Ministry Templis CALSF
20
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 22:33:00 -
[44] - Quote
masternerdguy wrote:Because this is just a game, and your in-game actions do not reflect your real world ones.
Actually no. It absolutely reflects the players character. The player decides to be a pirate, a soldier, a thief, a miner, w/e.
It doesn't happen by accident. |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19980
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 22:33:00 -
[45] - Quote
Aih-Li Tahn wrote:how do u work together in a 2-player game? You should look up the games I mentioned.
Quote:pls explain without hyperbola pls No. Sod off and do try to make a few neurons fire in sequence for once.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |

masternerdguy
State Protectorate Caldari State
1457
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 22:36:00 -
[46] - Quote
Claud Tiberius wrote:masternerdguy wrote:Because this is just a game, and your in-game actions do not reflect your real world ones. Actually no. It absolutely reflects the players character. The player decides to be a pirate, a soldier, a thief, a miner, w/e. It doesn't happen by accident.
So you never played cops and robbers as a kid I take it? Things are only impossible until they are not. |

Aih-Li Tahn
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
14
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 22:36:00 -
[47] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Aih-Li Tahn wrote:how do u work together in a 2-player game? You should look up the game s I mentioned. Quote:pls explain without hyperbola pls No. Sod off and do try to make a few neurons fire in sequence for once. Claud Tiberius wrote:Actually no. It absolutely reflects the players character. Correct: it reflects the character, not the player.
holy **** please stop the abuse... u cant be communicating clearly and then u go attack me? geez u kno what nvm, blocked, im not gonna deal with this toxic |

Claud Tiberius
Caldari Colonial Defense Ministry Templis CALSF
20
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 22:37:00 -
[48] - Quote
You can try to separate your life and the characters. But in the end you created the player and you are playing the character.
Don't be ashamed, its only a game.  |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19980
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 22:37:00 -
[49] - Quote
Aih-Li Tahn wrote:holy **** please stop the abuse. Have you looked up the games yet?
Claud Tiberius wrote:You can try to separate your life and the characters. GǪand will succeed every time since they have nothing to do with each other. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
269
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 22:39:00 -
[50] - Quote
Aih-Li Tahn wrote:ppl are hostiler in eve for some reason... do u know why?
I dunno, but I don't like you already. |

Divine Entervention
The Advent of Faith Against ALL Anomalies
120
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 22:40:00 -
[51] - Quote
I hope you'll eventually see what you're doing.
Right now, you're complaining on the forums about how bad people are bad people. It is a magnet. You've expressed an emotion, which to them, is a weakness. They're not normal, and you're trying to hold them to normal standards, and all it does is create an opening which the people who derive enjoyment from upsetting others utilize to try and further exacerbate the "weakness" you've exposed.
These people don't really care about what it is they're doing or saying. Which is their fault, but they don't care. All people are to them are potential sources for their own amusement. You're letting yourself be used by them through choosing to interact with them.
You stated your peace, and there are those of us who agree and understand. Normal people.
But normal people aren't motivated by the same things, we understand what it is you're doing and while we appreciate it, we know expressing agreement only makes us targets for their rage. They, being motivated by causing disruption to achieve some sense of impact in others lives since they're incapable of creating a positive impact, use this opportunity you've created to hopefully further destabilize you, just because.
Because they can. They have a severe disconnect with humanity and reality. They believe that if they can do something, they should. While the rest of us understand that just because you can, doesn't mean you should.
Anything you say will be used against you, regardless of their statements being grounded in reality or not, because their goal isn't any sort of meaningful accomplishment. Only one of simplicity.
Maor teers plx
|

masternerdguy
State Protectorate Caldari State
1457
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 22:41:00 -
[52] - Quote
Claud Tiberius wrote:You can try to separate your life and the characters. But in the end you created the player and you are playing the character. Don't be ashamed, its only a game. 
Maybe your inability to separate reality from fantasy is your own problem? Things are only impossible until they are not. |

Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
3684
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 22:41:00 -
[53] - Quote
Because EvE is an Everyone vs Everyone game.
Be the Villain.
|

Baneken
Arctic Light Inc. Arctic Light
159
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 22:42:00 -
[54] - Quote
To answer OP's question:
We do it because we can and without conflict this game would be boring and best way to create conflict is to shoot someone and even better is to do it with friends, so you can share the experience.
|

Claud Tiberius
Caldari Colonial Defense Ministry Templis CALSF
20
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 22:42:00 -
[55] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Aih-Li Tahn wrote:holy **** please stop the abuse. Have you looked up the games yet? Claud Tiberius wrote:You can try to separate your life and the characters. GǪand will succeed every time since they have nothing to do with each other. They have everything to do with each other.
There is no guarantee a character is going to be played the exact same way, irrespective to the player. |

Claud Tiberius
Caldari Colonial Defense Ministry Templis CALSF
20
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 22:43:00 -
[56] - Quote
masternerdguy wrote:Claud Tiberius wrote:You can try to separate your life and the characters. But in the end you created the player and you are playing the character. Don't be ashamed, its only a game.  Maybe your inability to separate reality from fantasy is your own problem? I have a problem with that?
|

Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
3268
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 22:43:00 -
[57] - Quote
Aih-Li Tahn wrote:Why is eve being full of scamers gankers bumpers and liars? EVE isn't full of them exclusively. They just make far more noise for their sliver of the population.
The last bumper I encountered was 4 years ago when I was jetcan mining in my Osprey (back when it had a mining yield bonus). I lost a very small portion of ore as a result. No shots were fired.
The last scammer I encountered was several months ago. I had several BPC on the market, and he offered to buy them all for a slightly discounted rate. He made up a bogus contract, which I corrected him on, to which he responded with another bogus contract, which I also called him on, causing him to depart chat. This is at least the third time I've had the exact same thing happen. My loss: minor amount of contract broker fees.
I don't ever recall encountering a liar in EVE, or else the ones I've encountered are just very good liars, or my memory is getting really poor. |

Aih-Li Tahn
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
14
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 22:43:00 -
[58] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:I hope you'll eventually see what you're doing.
Right now, you're complaining on the forums about how bad people are bad people. It is a magnet. You've expressed an emotion, which to them, is a weakness. They're not normal, and you're trying to hold them to normal standards, and all it does is create an opening which the people who derive enjoyment from upsetting others utilize to try and further exacerbate the "weakness" you've exposed.
These people don't really care about what it is they're doing or saying. Which is their fault, but they don't care. All people are to them are potential sources for their own amusement. You're letting yourself be used by them through choosing to interact with them.
You stated your peace, and there are those of us who agree and understand. Normal people.
But normal people aren't motivated by the same things, we understand what it is you're doing and while we appreciate it, we know expressing agreement only makes us targets for their rage. They, being motivated by causing disruption to achieve some sense of impact in others lives since they're incapable of creating a positive impact, use this opportunity you've created to hopefully further destabilize you, just because.
Because they can. They have a severe disconnect with humanity and reality. They believe that if they can do something, they should. While the rest of us understand that just because you can, doesn't mean you should.
Anything you say will be used against you, regardless of their statements being grounded in reality or not, because their goal isn't any sort of meaningful accomplishment. Only one of simplicity.
Maor teers plx
its hard to find ""normal"" ppl though... i was hoping a discusion would help, but aparently not
also lol, i didnt know i was geting tears, that actually makes it a bit sad, i think ppl are feeling bad but stoping it because they dont like being wrong |

masternerdguy
State Protectorate Caldari State
1457
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 22:44:00 -
[59] - Quote
Claud Tiberius wrote:masternerdguy wrote:Claud Tiberius wrote:You can try to separate your life and the characters. But in the end you created the player and you are playing the character. Don't be ashamed, its only a game.  Maybe your inability to separate reality from fantasy is your own problem? I have a problem with that?
Yes, since you cannot separate the character in the fictional world from the person in the real world. Things are only impossible until they are not. |

Aih-Li Tahn
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
14
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 22:45:00 -
[60] - Quote
Baneken wrote:To answer OP's question:
We do it because we can and without conflict this game would be boring and best way to create conflict is to shoot someone and even better is to do it with friends, so you can share the experience.
yes conflict is good and GAINING from conflict is fun and producive, but conflict with just losing for everyone dosent make sense!!! can u explain that for me pls? thats all im trying to get |

Dain Rokjaw
Shotguns and Duct Tape
24
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 22:46:00 -
[61] - Quote
NPC corp suggesting lack of "courage in conviction",, check. Overly bad spelling, (hopefully on purpose), and careless presentation, check Female portrait, unlikely to actually be in the 4%, confused identity, check. Over-inflated sense of self importance, claiming topic ownership, check Frequent replies and hitting "refresh", attention seeking, check Completely ignoring reasonable attempts at discussion, check
All signs point to male adolescent trying too hard, probably raging hormones around early puberty. I prescribe a healthy dose of "grow the **** up"...
 |

Claud Tiberius
Caldari Colonial Defense Ministry Templis CALSF
21
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 22:46:00 -
[62] - Quote
masternerdguy wrote:Claud Tiberius wrote:masternerdguy wrote:Claud Tiberius wrote:You can try to separate your life and the characters. But in the end you created the player and you are playing the character. Don't be ashamed, its only a game.  Maybe your inability to separate reality from fantasy is your own problem? I have a problem with that? Yes, since you cannot separate the character in the fictional world from the person in the real world. There is no rule saying I cant. If you don't like it, I don't care. Seems to me its your problem.
|

masternerdguy
State Protectorate Caldari State
1459
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 22:48:00 -
[63] - Quote
Claud Tiberius wrote:masternerdguy wrote:Claud Tiberius wrote:masternerdguy wrote:Claud Tiberius wrote:You can try to separate your life and the characters. But in the end you created the player and you are playing the character. Don't be ashamed, its only a game.  Maybe your inability to separate reality from fantasy is your own problem? I have a problem with that? Yes, since you cannot separate the character in the fictional world from the person in the real world. There is no rule saying I cant. If you don't like it, I don't care. Seems to me its your problem.
If you are unable to see that the character is going to behave differently from the person who plays it, then that is your problem not mine. It seems you are the one projecting your own problems onto the game. Things are only impossible until they are not. |

Aih-Li Tahn
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
14
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 22:48:00 -
[64] - Quote
Dain Rokjaw wrote:NPC corp suggesting lack of "courage in conviction",, check. Overly bad spelling, (hopefully on purpose), and careless presentation, check Female portrait, unlikely to actually be in the 4%, confused identity, check. Over-inflated sense of self importance, claiming topic ownership, check Frequent replies and hitting "refresh", attention seeking, check Completely ignoring reasonable attempts at discussion, check All signs point to male adolescent trying too hard, probably raging hormones around early puberty. I prescribe a healthy dose of "grow the **** up"...  way to make asumptions and be constructive and discussion, dude -1/10 |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19982
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 22:49:00 -
[65] - Quote
Claud Tiberius wrote:They have everything to do with each other. GǪexcept for one being real and the other being in a game. Granted, pathologies like schizophrenia and borderline personality disorder have a tendency not to be able to make the distinction, but that's in the perception of the action GÇö not in the action itself GÇö and that incorrect connection is why they're labelled as disorders.
Aih-Li Tahn wrote:its hard to find ""normal"" ppl though... i was hoping a discusion would help, but aparently not Again, it would maybe have helped if you had avoided being hostile and baselessly judgemental from the get-go.
Quote:way to make asumptions and be constructive and discussion, dude He's doing exactly the same thing you're doing, you knowGǪ GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |

Divine Entervention
The Advent of Faith Against ALL Anomalies
120
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 22:49:00 -
[66] - Quote
What we have here, is a failure of people realizing they are the product of their actions.
to communicate |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19982
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 22:52:00 -
[67] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:What we have here, is a failure of people realizing they are the product of their actions. So I take it you haven't realised that you're prejudiced yet, then? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |

Dain Rokjaw
Shotguns and Duct Tape
24
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 22:53:00 -
[68] - Quote
Aih-Li Tahn wrote:Dain Rokjaw wrote:NPC corp suggesting lack of "courage in conviction",, check. Overly bad spelling, (hopefully on purpose), and careless presentation, check Female portrait, unlikely to actually be in the 4%, confused identity, check. Over-inflated sense of self importance, claiming topic ownership, check Frequent replies and hitting "refresh", attention seeking, check Completely ignoring reasonable attempts at discussion, check All signs point to male adolescent trying too hard, probably raging hormones around early puberty. I prescribe a healthy dose of "grow the **** up"...  way to make asumptions and be constructive and discussion, dude  -1/10
Evidence. Observation.
And there's been little constructive in this thread since (and including) the first post. People have tried, but you've ignored them like a spoiled brat... |

masternerdguy
State Protectorate Caldari State
1459
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 22:54:00 -
[69] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:What we have here, is a failure of people realizing they are the product of their actions. So I take it you haven't realised that you're prejudiced yet, then?
People who are prejudiced tend to be slow to change their ways. Some never do. Things are only impossible until they are not. |

Divine Entervention
The Advent of Faith Against ALL Anomalies
120
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 22:54:00 -
[70] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:What we have here, is a failure of people realizing they are the product of their actions. So I take it you haven't realised that you're prejudiced yet, then?
It's not a prejudice if I'm making the judgement on the evidence provided to me through their actions.
If I judged your character as being good at cooking and cleaning because it's a female avatar, that would be prejudice.
I find it disheartening that after a month you still haven't learned that prejudice is short for pre judgement.
its afterjudice, if I make the judgement based on evidence. |

Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
5042
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 22:54:00 -
[71] - Quote
The real question isn't "why are all these 'bad' (Ie content creating) people in EVE".
IMHO the real question is this: why are all these really squeemish people totally unsuited to sandbox style gaming playing a sandbox game then complaining about it's sandbox nature? And why can't they understand that they are the misfits, not the people playing the game within the rules.
I wonder if Grand Theft Auto has a forum where people constantly post "Why you slap innocent Hoes, you must slap Hoes in real life" threads? |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19982
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 22:57:00 -
[72] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:It's not a prejudice if I'm making the judgement on the evidence provided to me through their actions. GǪbut since you don't have any such evidence, it is. All you're doing is making judgement based on baseless and nonsensical assumptions that are in every way completely disconnected from any kind of reality. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |

Divine Entervention
The Advent of Faith Against ALL Anomalies
120
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 22:57:00 -
[73] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:The real question isn't "why are all these 'bad' (Ie content creating) people in EVE".
IMHO the real question is this: why are all these really squeemish people totally unsuited to sandbox style gaming playing a sandbox game then complaining about it's sandbox nature? And why can't they understand that they are the misfits, not the people playing the game within the rules.
I wonder if Grand Theft Auto has a forum where people constantly post "Why you slap innocent Hoes, you must slap Hoes in real life" threads?
O no, I find it perfectly fine that people who wish to do bad things use EVE as their platform to do those bad things. I mean, I understand bad people exist in and out of game. While they may be unenjoyable aspects of the game, the rest of it more than makes up for thousands and thousands of bad apples.
EvE is a great game, regardless of bad people trying to **** it up. If anything, it makes a much more vibrant contrast of possibility.
Bad people get to do bad things, and I get to judge them as inferior for choosing to do bad things when they could just as easily be making the choice to do good things.
EvE is great. Choices are great. |

masternerdguy
State Protectorate Caldari State
1460
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 22:58:00 -
[74] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote: I wonder if Grand Theft Auto has a forum where people constantly post "Why you slap innocent Hoes, you must slap Hoes in real life" threads?
The funny thing is, many major news networks seem to believe that statement. Most of the flak that video games get is based on the assumption that people are going to behave the same way in real life as they do playing the video game.
It's the same flawed reasoning that gets movies, books, and television shows censored or outright banned. Things are only impossible until they are not. |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19982
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 22:59:00 -
[75] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Bad people get to bad things, and I get to judge them No you don't, because you have no idea what kind of people they are. In fact, just by arbitrarily classifying them as GÇ£bad peopleGÇ¥, you are showing staggeringly bad judgement.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |

Serenity Miner
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
8
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 23:01:00 -
[76] - Quote
Aih-Li Tahn wrote:I understand eve is free and no rules and blah blah blah. this isnt about ccp or how they manage stuff ... this is about comunity and how full of bad ppl it is! u cant even turn around without running into somone trying to take advantage of u with a lie or something! and its almost always not even for profit or money but just beign EVIL! i mean.... i once join a ""mining/industry"" corp and in 10 mins they try to gank my freighter with alot of battleships, why? and then i almost lose a orca with nothing expensive in hold or fit because of gank? i kno harasment is not alowed (even if alot of other stuff is) so is this even reportable? anyway thats not the point, its more..... whyy?? why do ppl go to self harm ways to hurt others? is this how pleyers act IRL too? is eve space australia? editing.... y all the hate ppl?  pls stop trolling, im just trying to understand
because the assholes of the world have to go somewhere
Vietnam, Iraq 1 & 2, Afghanistan
4 Wars are enough, Retired US Army O-3 |

Divine Entervention
The Advent of Faith Against ALL Anomalies
120
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 23:01:00 -
[77] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:It's not a prejudice if I'm making the judgement on the evidence provided to me through their actions. GǪbut since you don't have any such evidence, it is. All you're doing is making judgement based on baseless and nonsensical assumptions that are in every way completely disconnected from any kind of reality.
The evidence being shown by the individual choosing to perform the action.
Just as I display what you would consider to be evidence of my being "prejudiced", even though it's wrong because I'm making my judgements on the specific individuals in question based on their actions, I get to use the evidence of their actions as a basis to reach my conclusions on them as a person, since it is their person making the choice. |

Divine Entervention
The Advent of Faith Against ALL Anomalies
120
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 23:02:00 -
[78] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:Bad people get to bad things, and I get to judge them No you don't, because you have no idea what kind of people they are. In fact, just by arbitrarily classifying them as GÇ£bad peopleGÇ¥, you are showing staggeringly bad judgement.
I do have an idea. Because they've shown me through their actions. |

Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
5042
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 23:04:00 -
[79] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:The real question isn't "why are all these 'bad' (Ie content creating) people in EVE".
IMHO the real question is this: why are all these really squeemish people totally unsuited to sandbox style gaming playing a sandbox game then complaining about it's sandbox nature? And why can't they understand that they are the misfits, not the people playing the game within the rules.
I wonder if Grand Theft Auto has a forum where people constantly post "Why you slap innocent Hoes, you must slap Hoes in real life" threads? O no, I find it perfectly fine that people who wish to do bad things use EVE as their platform to do those bad things. I mean, I understand bad people exist in and out of game. While they may be unenjoyable aspects of the game, the rest of it more than makes up for thousands and thousands of bad apples. EvE is a great game, regardless of bad people trying to **** it up. If anything, it makes a much more vibrant contrast of possibility. Bad people get to do bad things, and I get to judge them as inferior for choosing to do bad things when they could just as easily be making the choice to do good things. EvE is great. Choices are great.
Exactly the post that a bad person would make. The 'bad' part is being judmental of people for how they play a video game coupled with this need to be seen as superior (inferred by your use of the word inferior).
I mean seriously, it's pitiful. Right this moment there are people in the real world proving they are better than you, helping others, sacrificing their time, effort and sometimes even lives for others while you sit at a key board and falsely prop your self up as a 'good person' because other video game players play a video game in a way you don't like.
It's as i said before, the 'bad' people of EVE are most likely the well adjusted adults who can keep a video game in proper context while the self proclaimed 'good' are simply the ones trying to mask how truly aweful they are deep down inside. |

Taegan Kairos
Xenon Salvage Inc.
0
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 23:05:00 -
[80] - Quote
There's plenty of "good people" in Eve. But that's just it, most of them are actually in Eve, playing the game not trawling the forums.
Plus if you start a thread basically saying "everyone who plays this game is an *******" guess what kind of reaction you're going to get...
Not to mention the whole concept of "good" people and "bad" people is ridiculously over simplistic and subject to opinion, especially when you add the impossible criteria of comparing real life and in game actions. |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19982
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 23:05:00 -
[81] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:The evidence being shown by the individual choosing to perform the action. GǪwhich you've never witnessed. The only choice you've seen is that they play a game.
I take it you are a bad person then since you made the exact same choice?
Quote:Just as I display what you would consider to be evidence of my being "prejudiced" Nope. You see, I see you making prejudiced claims, which makes me label you as prejudiced. You see people play a game, which makes you draw the unrelated conclusion that they're bad people. If I made the same prejudiced statements you did, I would try to connect your baseless and wild accusations of other people with some cognitive-empathic disorder, which I can't since I haven't been able to make any relevant observations.
Quote:I get to use the evidence of their actions as a basis to reach my conclusions on them as a person You do, if you ever get to observe their actions, which you don't. All you ever observe is that they're playing a game GÇö same as you. If you want to use such loose connections, we can conclude that you are actually a giraffe. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |

Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
5043
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 23:06:00 -
[82] - Quote
masternerdguy wrote:Jenn aSide wrote: I wonder if Grand Theft Auto has a forum where people constantly post "Why you slap innocent Hoes, you must slap Hoes in real life" threads?
The funny thing is, many major news networks seem to believe that statement. Most of the flak that video games get is based on the assumption that people are going to behave the same way in real life as they do playing the video game. It's the same flawed reasoning that gets movies, books, and television shows censored or outright banned.
Well said, and most of the people doing the censoring (or asking for the censoring) do so while having their noses stuck in the air because they are the "good people" protecting everyone else from evil....when in fact their actions make them bad people trying to supress freedom. |

masternerdguy
State Protectorate Caldari State
1460
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 23:06:00 -
[83] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote: It's as i said before, the 'bad' people of EVE are most likely the well adjusted adults who can keep a video game in proper context while the self proclaimed 'good' are simply the ones trying to mask how truly aweful they are deep down inside.
I've never seen anyone put it so well, I agree. I'll remember this quote when the topic returns in a few days. Things are only impossible until they are not. |

Divine Entervention
The Advent of Faith Against ALL Anomalies
120
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 23:09:00 -
[84] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:The evidence being shown by the individual choosing to perform the action. GǪwhich you've never witnessed. The only choice you've seen is that they play a game. I take it you are a bad person then since you made the exact same choice? Quote:Just as I display what you would consider to be evidence of my being "prejudiced" Nope. You see, I see you making prejudiced claims, which makes me label you as prejudiced. You see people play a game, which makes you draw the unrelated conclusion that they're bad people. Quote:I get to use the evidence of their actions as a basis to reach my conclusions on them as a person You do, if you ever get to observe their actions, which you don't. All you ever observe is that they're playing a game GÇö same as you. If you want to use such loose connections, we can conclude that you are actually a giraffe.
You have a disconnect between cause and effect. There is a choice to treat people nicely. People who choose to treat people poorly are bad people because they are choosing to perform the action that distinguishes them as bad people.
I'm really sorry for anyone who has to interact with you, because you display a tendency to feel a disconnection between your actions and the effects it will cause. |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19982
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 23:12:00 -
[85] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:You have a disconnect between cause and effect. Nope. I just don't share your baseless assumed connection between game strategy and real-life personality.
Quote:There is a choice to treat people nicely. GǪa choice you never get to observe since you never meet the person. The only choice you observe is their strategy in a competitive game environment.
Since you hate it so much, let's go back to this old simile: does bluffing in poker make you a bad person and a compulsive liar? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |

Dain Rokjaw
Shotguns and Duct Tape
24
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 23:14:00 -
[86] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:
You have a disconnect between cause and effect. There is a choice to treat people nicely. People who choose to treat people poorly are bad people because they are choosing to perform the action that distinguishes them as bad people.
I'm really sorry for anyone who has to interact with you, because you display a tendency to feel a disconnection between your actions and the effects it will cause.
You do understand the difference between player and character, between in real life and in a game... right?
|

Divine Entervention
The Advent of Faith Against ALL Anomalies
120
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 23:14:00 -
[87] - Quote
Dain Rokjaw wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:
You have a disconnect between cause and effect. There is a choice to treat people nicely. People who choose to treat people poorly are bad people because they are choosing to perform the action that distinguishes them as bad people.
I'm really sorry for anyone who has to interact with you, because you display a tendency to feel a disconnection between your actions and the effects it will cause.
You do understand the difference between player and character, between in real life and in a game... right?
You do understand that the character is controlled by the player? That the game is being played within real life. . . . right? |

masternerdguy
State Protectorate Caldari State
1460
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 23:14:00 -
[88] - Quote
Dain Rokjaw wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:
You have a disconnect between cause and effect. There is a choice to treat people nicely. People who choose to treat people poorly are bad people because they are choosing to perform the action that distinguishes them as bad people.
I'm really sorry for anyone who has to interact with you, because you display a tendency to feel a disconnection between your actions and the effects it will cause.
You do understand the difference between player and character, between in real life and in a game... right?
The issue with his reasoning is that he does not. Things are only impossible until they are not. |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19982
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 23:17:00 -
[89] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:You do understand that the character is controlled by the player? You do understand that the context of the actions of that character is that they happen inside of a game, right?
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |

Divine Entervention
The Advent of Faith Against ALL Anomalies
120
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 23:19:00 -
[90] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:You do understand that the character is controlled by the player? You do understand that the context of the actions of that character is that they happen inside of a game, right?
A game driven by the choices of the individuals within. Yes |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19982
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 23:21:00 -
[91] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:A game driven by the choices of the individuals within. So you're saying that you're a bad person since you made the same choice, then.
Does bluffing in poker make you a bad person and a compulsive liar? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |

Divine Entervention
The Advent of Faith Against ALL Anomalies
120
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 23:24:00 -
[92] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:A game driven by the choices of the individuals within. So you're saying that you're a bad person since you made the same choice, then. Does bluffing in poker make you a bad person and a compulsive liar?
No, because I do not lie to, or steal from people. The OP listed a clear situation where she was lied to with the intention of ruining her gameplay. I make the choice to not treat people like that. Am I bad person for something? Of course. We're all imperfect in one way or another. Mine just happens not to be my interaction with people. And since I make the choice to treat others fairly and with respect as long as they prove they are of the same mentality, that makes me a good person.
I do not play poker. Any reference you choose to make about poker I will remind you with the fact that it is a game I do not play. |

Good Posting
Posting with my Mind
119
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 23:24:00 -
[93] - Quote
Amusing thread 8/10 |

Dain Rokjaw
Shotguns and Duct Tape
24
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 23:24:00 -
[94] - Quote
If this debate gets much further down the line, we'll have an arguement that says you can't bowl at a guy out at cricket (which is definitely a game) as it's deprived the player of his real-life right to score runs - that's not generally what they mean when referring to a "bad" bowler....  |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19985
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 23:31:00 -
[95] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:No, because I do not lie to, or steal from people. I have no evidence of this, so I must assume that you are a bad person. After all, you made the exact same choice as the people you're judging to be bad people.
Quote:I do not play poker. Irrelevant. Does bluffing in poker make you a bad person and a compulsive liar? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |

Lugia3
Emerald Inc.
881
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 23:33:00 -
[96] - Quote
Aih-Li Tahn wrote:pls troll somewher else, im trying to have a discusion  why do ppl always like ruining and being destructive even on forums... i just realize its not just ingame
Next up: Another player calls everyone who disagrees with her a troll! "CCP Dolan is full of ****." - CCP Bettik |

The Slayer
Vasilkovsky Interstellar Goonswarm Federation
82
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 23:35:00 -
[97] - Quote
In Grand Theft Auto you can choose to obey the traffic laws. You can choose to not shoot anyone ever. You can choose to not steal or set things on fire.
Few people do this. |

Divine Entervention
The Advent of Faith Against ALL Anomalies
120
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 23:37:00 -
[98] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:No, because I do not lie to, or steal from people. I have no evidence of this, so I must assume that you are a bad person. After all, you made the exact same choice as the people you're judging to be bad people. Quote:I do not play poker. Irrelevant. Does bluffing in poker make you a bad person and a compulsive liar?
Based on my actions, you get to make your assumptions of who and what I am.
Me too, in regards to you.
We're the product of our actions. The reflection of our choices. People who do bad, are bad.
I don't play poker. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
270
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 23:38:00 -
[99] - Quote
Divine, do you as aperson look like your avatar ingame? |

masternerdguy
State Protectorate Caldari State
1464
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 23:39:00 -
[100] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote: People who do bad, are bad.
Once again you are failing to separate reality from fantasy. Things are only impossible until they are not. |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19985
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 23:41:00 -
[101] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Based on my actions, you get to make your assumptions of who and what I am. Your prejudice is not an assumption GÇö it's amply displayed in this and every other thread on the topic. Personally, I choose not to make the kind of assumptions you're so fond of, and the only actions of yours I've observed is that you choose to play EVE (which according to you makes someone a bad person) and that you make prejudiced claims about other players. So that's as far as I can ever go.
Does bluffing in poker make you a bad person and a compulsive liar? It's a very simple question and whether you, personally, play poker or not is completely irrelevant so you can drop that useless attempt at evading it. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |

Divine Entervention
The Advent of Faith Against ALL Anomalies
120
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 23:43:00 -
[102] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Divine, do you as aperson look like your avatar ingame?
I think it's rather inappropriate for you to be asking on a public forum about my appearance.
No avatar in any game ever could look as good as I do IRL. |

Divine Entervention
The Advent of Faith Against ALL Anomalies
120
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 23:45:00 -
[103] - Quote
masternerdguy wrote:Divine Entervention wrote: People who do bad, are bad. Once again you are failing to separate reality from fantasy.
And again you're insinuating that you are exempt from the reactions to your actions.
How nice it must be, to live in a fairy tale where you get to pick and choose the consequences of your actions.
#accountability
|

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19988
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 23:46:00 -
[104] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:And again you're insinuating that you are exempt from the reactions to your actions.
How nice it must be, to live in a fairy tale where you get to pick and choose the consequences of your actions. GǪexcept, of course, that he's not doing either of those.
Does bluffing in poker make you a bad person and a compulsive liar? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
271
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 23:47:00 -
[105] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Divine, do you as aperson look like your avatar ingame? I think it's rather inappropriate for you to be asking on a public forum about my appearance. No avatar in any game ever could look as good as I do IRL.
I dont care if you find it inappropriate, nor did I ask if you find it so. That is subject to your personal morality which has no bearing whatsoever on my own same such.
Nor did I ask if you are as ugly as your avatar.
I asked whether you, in person, look like your avatar. It is an objective query devoid of value judgement, nor should you apply such to it, since none is either implicit or explicit in it. To do so would be to indicate a prejudice. |

EvEa Deva
Forum Alt Retort
469
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 23:49:00 -
[106] - Quote
M mouthy M mother f***** O online R ruining P peoples G games
thats what it stands for right ? |

masternerdguy
State Protectorate Caldari State
1468
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 23:51:00 -
[107] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:masternerdguy wrote:Divine Entervention wrote: People who do bad, are bad. Once again you are failing to separate reality from fantasy. And again you're insinuating that you are exempt from the reactions to your actions. How nice it must be, to live in a fairy tale where you get to pick and choose the consequences of your actions. #accountability
I used to be the head FC in a 650 man lo sec alliance so don't lecture me about accountability.
As for the rest of your post, I am not exempt from my actions in-game because in-game they have in-game consequences. Notice how I keep saying in-game, since EVE is just a game. Like cops and robbers.
In EVE, I am playing a character in another world. That character is not the same person who I am in my day to day life. You don't seem to be able to separate the game world from the real world, and some would call that a personality disorder. Things are only impossible until they are not. |

Divine Entervention
The Advent of Faith Against ALL Anomalies
120
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 23:51:00 -
[108] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Divine, do you as aperson look like your avatar ingame? I think it's rather inappropriate for you to be asking on a public forum about my appearance. No avatar in any game ever could look as good as I do IRL. I dont care if you find it inappropriate, nor did I ask if you find it so. That is subject to your personal morality which has no bearing whatsoever on my own same such. Nor did I ask if you are as ugly as your avatar. I asked whether you, in person, look like your avatar. It is an objective query devoid of value judgement, nor should you apply such to it, since none is either implicit or explicit in it.
Considering the severe disrespect you've just shown my person, I'm going to disregard your request. |

Erica Dusette
Sky Fighters
3767
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 23:53:00 -
[109] - Quote
Aih-Li Tahn wrote: is eve space australia? Yes.
Tasmania, specifically. GÖí -á-á Major (Ret.) Caldari Naval Militia Gÿá -á Sky Fighters | Just an innocent explorer! pâä -áHerrbert: "womwomwowmwoaugharwajwowoooommm"
|

Kais Klip
State Protectorate Caldari State
16
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 23:53:00 -
[110] - Quote
I don't understand why being bad, provided it further's one's agenda, is being so frowned upon when there is no more downside to acting bad than good.
I'm not even proposing Eve is a zero sum game on fun, it's not if it's a good fight, I'm just pointing out scamming and lying is no more "bad" in this game than opening up with your 425s. To the same extent, if it's a good scam, "gf". |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
271
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 23:53:00 -
[111] - Quote
Then you have objectively demonstrated bias and prejudice. |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19988
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 23:53:00 -
[112] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Considering the severe disrespect you've just shown my person Where did he do that?
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |

Divine Entervention
The Advent of Faith Against ALL Anomalies
120
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 23:54:00 -
[113] - Quote
masternerdguy wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:masternerdguy wrote:Divine Entervention wrote: People who do bad, are bad. Once again you are failing to separate reality from fantasy. And again you're insinuating that you are exempt from the reactions to your actions. How nice it must be, to live in a fairy tale where you get to pick and choose the consequences of your actions. #accountability I used to be the head FC in a 650 man lo sec alliance so don't lecture me about accountability. As for the rest of your post, I am not exempt from my actions in-game because in-game they have in-game consequences. Notice how I keep saying in-game, since EVE is just a game. Like cops and robbers. In EVE, I am playing a character in another world. That character is not the same person who I am in my day to day life. You don't seem to be able to separate the game world from the real world, and some would call that a personality disorder.
You justify a disconnection between your actions and your self however you wish. That is a deficiency in your character, not mine.
You failing to understand that you're the person making your choices to have negative impacts on other real people indicates no fault in me, only in you.
You're probably going to focus on the real, but here's the "reality". Every other capsuleer in game is controlled by a real person. |

Erica Dusette
Sky Fighters
3768
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 23:55:00 -
[114] - Quote
Oh gawd, not this again.  GÖí -á-á Major (Ret.) Caldari Naval Militia Gÿá -á Sky Fighters | Just an innocent explorer! pâä -áHerrbert: "womwomwowmwoaugharwajwowoooommm"
|

The Slayer
Vasilkovsky Interstellar Goonswarm Federation
82
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 23:55:00 -
[115] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:masternerdguy wrote:Divine Entervention wrote: People who do bad, are bad. Once again you are failing to separate reality from fantasy. And again you're insinuating that you are exempt from the reactions to your actions. How nice it must be, to live in a fairy tale where you get to pick and choose the consequences of your actions. #accountability
We all live in that fairy tale, its called EVE Online.
Edit : If I shoot a guy in a shooting game, am I a bad person? If I shoot someone in EVE Online, am I a bad person? At what point do my actions make me a bad person? |

Divine Entervention
The Advent of Faith Against ALL Anomalies
120
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 23:56:00 -
[116] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Then you have objectively demonstrated bias and prejudice.
You've overtly demonstrated a lack of care for my feelings. You've made a request of me that I felt inappropriate, and then upon learning of my feeling on the matter you chose to reinforce your demand.
It's not biased or prejudiced, it's a reaction to someone who's shown me severe disrepect, disrespect amounting towards coming to a conclusion that you're not a person worthy of me placating. |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19988
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 23:56:00 -
[117] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:You justify a disconnection between your actions and your self however you wish. That is a deficiency in your character What do you base that claim on?
Quote:You failing to understand that you're the person making your choices to have negative impacts on other real people indicates no fault in me, only in you. GǪexcept, of course, that he doesn't fail to understand that. That's just you being prejudiced.
Does bluffing in poker make you a bad person and a compulsive liar? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
271
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 23:59:00 -
[118] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Then you have objectively demonstrated bias and prejudice. You've overtly demonstrated a lack of care for my feelings. You've made a request of me that I felt inappropriate, and then upon learning of my feeling on the matter you chose to reinforce your demand. It's not biased or prejudiced, it's a reaction to someone who's shown me severe disrepect, disrespect amounting towards coming to a conclusion that you're not a person worthy of me placating.
It is a biased and prejudiced response to an objective and neutral query.
Either you, in person, look like your avatar, or you don't.
I expressed no implicit or explicit value judgements upon the query. All of that, was added by you in demonstration and enactment of your own bias and prejudice. Not only that, but you then went further to superimpose your own imaginary speculation as to my motives for asking, when I had given no objective data on any of that.
You further try to dissemble the chronology of the discourse, by taking umbrage at my lack of caring for your irrelevant and evasive answer, when you failed to provide a direct question to a simple direct question.
I merely asked a neutral and objective question. Everything else, is your own doing, and as such, something you are accountable for, and which is representative of what you are. Ergo, biased and prejudicial.
I win. |

masternerdguy
State Protectorate Caldari State
1468
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 23:59:00 -
[119] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:You justify a disconnection between your actions and your self however you wish. That is a deficiency in your character What do you base that claim on? Quote:You failing to understand that you're the person making your choices to have negative impacts on other real people indicates no fault in me, only in you. GǪexcept, of course, that he doesn't fail to understand that. That's just you being prejudiced. Does bluffing in poker make you a bad person and a compulsive liar?
He doesn't seem to want to answer that question Tippia, at your leisure may I suggest an alternative question?
Does playing a robber in the children's game cops and robbers make you a bad person? Does playing a cop in the children's game cops and robbers make you a good person? Things are only impossible until they are not. |

Spaja Saist
The Scope Gallente Federation
7
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 23:59:00 -
[120] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Aih-Li Tahn wrote:point is this thread, with all hate and anger for a simple question and no answer without 'lol just because' Well, if you hadn't come right out of the gate with said hate and anger, people would have been less likely to respond in kindGǪ
What a lying piece of **** you are. All you ever do is insult people and act like you are better than everyone else. You are a prime example of what the OP is talking about. I'm sure you're a useless piece of **** in real life as well. Anyone that derives as much joy as you do in putting others down is a waste of air and doesn't deserve to live. Hopefully you will get ganked in real life then we won't have to listen to your stupid bullshit.
Now that being said, OP this is a harsh game and it attracts the worst sociopaths from a round the world. Coming to the forums and complaining just brings out the likes of Tippia the **** and Erotic1 the psychopath. Do yourself a favor and either play the game with people you know or just quit and find a game were being the biggest douche bag in the playground isn't rewarded.
CCP seems to like running a game were being an ******* is the main goal. Playing this game for the last 10 and a half years has taught me I would never want to go to Iceland. |

The Slayer
Vasilkovsky Interstellar Goonswarm Federation
82
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 00:00:00 -
[121] - Quote
Oh I see this is a slap fight between you two and not an actual discussion. Fair enough, I will stop trying to contribute :D
:snipe: |

Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
628
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 00:03:00 -
[122] - Quote
masternerdguy wrote: You don't seem to be able to separate the game world from the real world, and some would call that a personality disorder.
Yes, it seems he has a paranoid personality disorder and a superiority complex. It could also be a form of narcissism.
This has been plainly evident in multiple threads over the last couple of weeks.
In most people, I would judge it as part of their gameplay as the forum is part of the metagame of EvE-O.
However, in this case to apply the standard by which everyone else is judged, this must be who he is as a person.
This post is not in any way intended as a personal attack. It is simply a judgment based on evidence applied to the standard to which many of us have been subjected over the last couple of weeks, just for posting in a forum. eve-bazaar - Discount prices on ships and PLEX. Real savings to drive your ISK further. |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19988
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 00:03:00 -
[123] - Quote
Spaja Saist wrote:What a lying piece of **** you are. Do you have anything to support this claim?
Quote:You are a prime example of what the OP is talking about. I'm sure you're a useless piece of **** in real life as well. Anyone that derives as much joy as you do in putting others down is a waste of air and doesn't deserve to live. Hopefully you will get ganked in real life then we won't have to listen to your stupid bullshit. [GǪ] Coming to the forums and complaining just brings out the likes of Tippia the **** and Erotic1 the psychopath. Before you go on a vacation, can I have your stuff? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |

Kais Klip
State Protectorate Caldari State
16
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 00:05:00 -
[124] - Quote
This is why the word 'carebear' got invented. Instead of having an insightful conversation on the idea of morality when the enviroment of crime & punishment is so drastically changed from real life to Eve, you freak out and resort to forcefully demeaning another poster (an act which would be more "bad" than scamming by your logic, since you are attacking the poster and not his avatar).
So, forgive me, because I'd love to have that conversation:
lol stfu carebear *** |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
274
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 00:05:00 -
[125] - Quote
Compare the following:
Spaja Saist wrote:What a lying piece of **** you are. All you ever do is insult people and act like you are better than everyone else. You are a prime example of what the OP is talking about. I'm sure you're a useless piece of **** in real life as well. Anyone that derives as much joy as you do in putting others down is a waste of air and doesn't deserve to live. Hopefully you will get ganked in real life then we won't have to listen to your stupid bullshit.
With:
Spaja Saist wrote:Now that being said, OP this is a harsh game and it attracts the worst sociopaths from a round the world.
Now read your first quote again.
That was the most sociopathic output I have EVER read on this forum, ergo, you proved your second statement true by showing yourself to be exactly that of which you speak, as evidenced by the first quote. |

Erica Dusette
Sky Fighters
3768
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 00:07:00 -
[126] - Quote
Spaja Saist wrote:CCP seems to like running a game were being an ******* is the main goal. Playing this game for the last 10 and a half years has taught me I would never want to go to Iceland. You dump a lot of **** onto a game that's kept you fixed for ten years. 
What're you truly bitter about? GÖí -á-á Major (Ret.) Caldari Naval Militia Gÿá -á Sky Fighters | Just an innocent explorer! pâä -áHerrbert: "womwomwowmwoaugharwajwowoooommm"
|

Spaja Saist
The Scope Gallente Federation
7
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 00:08:00 -
[127] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:I hope you'll eventually see what you're doing.
Right now, you're complaining on the forums about how bad people are bad people. It is a magnet. You've expressed an emotion, which to them, is a weakness. They're not normal, and you're trying to hold them to normal standards, and all it does is create an opening which the people who derive enjoyment from upsetting others utilize to try and further exacerbate the "weakness" you've exposed.
These people don't really care about what it is they're doing or saying. Which is their fault, but they don't care. All people are to them are potential sources for their own amusement. You're letting yourself be used by them through choosing to interact with them.
You stated your peace, and there are those of us who agree and understand. Normal people.
But normal people aren't motivated by the same things, we understand what it is you're doing and while we appreciate it, we know expressing agreement only makes us targets for their rage. They, being motivated by causing disruption to achieve some sense of impact in others lives since they're incapable of creating a positive impact, use this opportunity you've created to hopefully further destabilize you, just because.
Because they can. They have a severe disconnect with humanity and reality. They believe that if they can do something, they should. While the rest of us understand that just because you can, doesn't mean you should.
Anything you say will be used against you, regardless of their statements being grounded in reality or not, because their goal isn't any sort of meaningful accomplishment. Only one of simplicity.
Maor teers plx
Truer words have never been spoken. |

Spaja Saist
The Scope Gallente Federation
7
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 00:15:00 -
[128] - Quote
Dain Rokjaw wrote:Aih-Li Tahn wrote:Dain Rokjaw wrote:NPC corp suggesting lack of "courage in conviction",, check. Overly bad spelling, (hopefully on purpose), and careless presentation, check Female portrait, unlikely to actually be in the 4%, confused identity, check. Over-inflated sense of self importance, claiming topic ownership, check Frequent replies and hitting "refresh", attention seeking, check Completely ignoring reasonable attempts at discussion, check All signs point to male adolescent trying too hard, probably raging hormones around early puberty. I prescribe a healthy dose of "grow the **** up"...  way to make asumptions and be constructive and discussion, dude  -1/10 Evidence. Observation. And there's been little constructive in this thread since (and including) the first post. People have tried, but you've ignored them like a spoiled brat...
What you're doing isn't being constructive. It's just being a **** because you are one. |

Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
630
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 00:16:00 -
[129] - Quote
Aih-Li Tahn wrote:I understand eve is free and no rules and blah blah blah. this isnt about ccp or how they manage stuff ... this is about comunity and how full of bad ppl it is! u cant even turn around without running into somone trying to take advantage of u with a lie or something! and its almost always not even for profit or money but just beign EVIL! i mean.... i once join a ""mining/industry"" corp and in 10 mins they try to gank my freighter with alot of battleships, why? and then i almost lose a orca with nothing expensive in hold or fit because of gank? i kno harasment is not alowed (even if alot of other stuff is) so is this even reportable? anyway thats not the point, its more..... whyy?? why do ppl go to self harm ways to hurt others? is this how pleyers act IRL too? is eve space australia? Coming back to the OP, I think if that's your experience then perhaps you've been turning around in the wrong locations.
There are people in the game who chose to be the villain, but that's a choice made within the rules of the game. As a person in real life, they are playing totally within the rules, which is a morally correct and ethical choice.
That this choice has fictional consequences in a game is something we are all aware of when we play. We each have a responsibility to look after our own interests first; and then depending on our in game choices to help others or not.
There are many players who have made the choice to help others and they can be found quite easily if you look.
So in my experience, EvE is not full of bad people. It's full of good people playing a game within the rules.
When characters interact, I usually find the purpose of both is to have fun. While the consequences can be negative for one player, that doesn't mean the other player set out to hurt them. In most cases they are just enjoying their own game and not being concerned about the consequences for others, as all the consequences are fictional anyway.
As a final comment I hope you are Australian, because your statement is easy to interpret as racist. eve-bazaar - Discount prices on ships and PLEX. Real savings to drive your ISK further. |

Spaja Saist
The Scope Gallente Federation
7
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 00:18:00 -
[130] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:It's not a prejudice if I'm making the judgement on the evidence provided to me through their actions. GǪbut since you don't have any such evidence, it is. All you're doing is making judgement based on baseless and nonsensical assumptions that are in every way completely disconnected from any kind of reality.
I can judge the type of person you are by reading the thousands of posts you've made over the years. They all point to the fact that's your a jackass who thinks you're better than everyone else. |

Divine Entervention
The Advent of Faith Against ALL Anomalies
120
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 00:18:00 -
[131] - Quote
masternerdguy wrote: Does playing a cop in the children's game cops and robbers make you a good person?
Ooo interesting. This is a comparison I can get into. Let me elaborate upon this question to set it up to better reflect the sandbox of EVE.
Kid's are in class. It now becomes "RECESS". Recess is EVE.
On the playground, there are kids on swings. There are kids playing kick ball. there are kids making mountains in the sand. There are kids laughing and playing on the slide. Kids playing tag.
There are also some kids playing a game with each other called "Cops and Robbers" For a bit, the robbers are fighting over imaginary goods between themselves. One "Robber" takes a Policeman's eraser, and the cops are trying to arrest the robbers and reclaim that eraser, that eraser is very important and worth alot! They are having a blast!
That is perfectly acceptable. I applaud those children for having a great time. O to be a kid again.
But uh-oh! It's another day, and another recess. Everyone is out in the sandbox of recess having fun! Another game of "Cops and Robbers" emerges!
This time though, the robbers take the ball the kids are using to play kick ball. In the idea of making their own game within recess more enjoyable, they've allowed their desire to steal the ball OTHER kids, not part of their game within recess, were using to enjoy themselves in their own way. The robbers have stolen the ball and now the cops are trying to retrieve the ball and return it to the kick ballers.
This is wrong. The kids playing kick ball would have a valid complain to the Yard Supervisor because the selfish prick robbers allowed their own desire of injecting more meaning into their own game to negatively impact those who made the choice not to involve themselves in. Now those kids can't play kick ball because others have decided their own fun is more important than theirs.
Those "robbers" deserve a talking to, to be told that just because they want to enjoy themselves, they're not allowed to do so at others expense.
Then send the kids to jail permanently for the rest of their lives. For stealing the ball. Save society the trouble. (LoL) |

Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
630
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 00:22:00 -
[132] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:[This time though, the robbers take the ball the kids are using to play kick ball. In the idea of making their own game within recess more enjoyable, they've allowed their desire to steal the ball OTHER kids, not part of their game within recess, were using to enjoy themselves in their own way. The robbers have stolen the ball and now the cops are trying to retrieve the ball and return it to the kick ballers. I can't see how taking something from someone not playing the game is in any way connected to EvE.
How for example in EvE as a pirate can you reach into another game and steal something from someone? (That's the comparison you've portrayed in the quote)
That isn't possible, nor makes any sense as a serious comparison.
The only choices anyone can make are in game choices. They can't chose to steal from a player playing CoD online or any other game not connected to the rules of EvE. eve-bazaar - Discount prices on ships and PLEX. Real savings to drive your ISK further. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
274
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 00:22:00 -
[133] - Quote
Divine, guess how you are judged by your observed conduct here.
Do you accept that judgement? Is it true, because we perceive it to be true of you?
It must be, as that is the criteria you apply yourself onto others.
Something for you to introspect on. |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20004
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 00:23:00 -
[134] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Ooo interesting. This is a comparison I can get into. Let me elaborate upon this question to set it up to better reflect the sandbox of EVE. No. Just answer the question: does playing the cop in a game of cops and robbers make the kid a good person?
Inventing a completely different scenario doesn't answer this simple question. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |

Spaja Saist
The Scope Gallente Federation
7
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 00:23:00 -
[135] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:The real question isn't "why are all these 'bad' (Ie content creating) people in EVE".
IMHO the real question is this: why are all these really squeemish people totally unsuited to sandbox style gaming playing a sandbox game then complaining about it's sandbox nature? And why can't they understand that they are the misfits, not the people playing the game within the rules.
I wonder if Grand Theft Auto has a forum where people constantly post "Why you slap innocent Hoes, you must slap Hoes in real life" threads? O no, I find it perfectly fine that people who wish to do bad things use EVE as their platform to do those bad things. I mean, I understand bad people exist in and out of game. While they may be unenjoyable aspects of the game, the rest of it more than makes up for thousands and thousands of bad apples. EvE is a great game, regardless of bad people trying to **** it up. If anything, it makes a much more vibrant contrast of possibility. Bad people get to do bad things, and I get to judge them as inferior for choosing to do bad things when they could just as easily be making the choice to do good things. EvE is great. Choices are great. Exactly the post that a bad person would make. The 'bad' part is being judmental of people for how they play a video game coupled with this need to be seen as superior (inferred by your use of the word inferior). I mean seriously, it's pitiful. Right this moment there are people in the real world proving they are better than you, helping others, sacrificing their time, effort and sometimes even lives for others while you sit at a key board and falsely prop your self up as a 'good person' because other video game players play a video game in a way you don't like. It's as i said before, the 'bad' people of EVE are most likely the well adjusted adults who can keep a video game in proper context while the self proclaimed 'good' are simply the ones trying to mask how truly aweful they are deep down inside.
I can tell your a bad person because of the way you talk to people on the forums not how you may act in the game itself. You're postings prove you have no empathy in the real world. It's not surprising that's you'd want to act out your fantasies in a game that allows it.
|

Divine Entervention
The Advent of Faith Against ALL Anomalies
120
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 00:25:00 -
[136] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:[This time though, the robbers take the ball the kids are using to play kick ball. In the idea of making their own game within recess more enjoyable, they've allowed their desire to steal the ball OTHER kids, not part of their game within recess, were using to enjoy themselves in their own way. The robbers have stolen the ball and now the cops are trying to retrieve the ball and return it to the kick ballers. I can't see how taking something from someone not playing the game is in any way connected to EvE. How for example in EvE as a pirate can you reach into another game and steal something from someone? (That's the comparison you've portrayed in the quote) That isn't possible, nor makes any sense as a serious comparison. The only choices anyone can make are in game choices. They can't chose to steal from a player playing CoD online or any other game not connected to the rules of EvE.
Because there's more than one way to play EVE.
That's part of the appeal no? Non-linear, choice based game play. During recess, I get to choose if I want to explore the swings or if I want to mine for cat poop in the sand box. |

Anomaly One
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
2
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 00:26:00 -
[137] - Quote
this thread again.. |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20005
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 00:28:00 -
[138] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Because there's more than one way to play EVE. Yes, but playing Jagged Alliance isn't one of them. That's a different game with different rules, just like how intruding on someone's ballgame is not a part of cops and robbers. You're once again confusing in-game with out-of-game.
So, again, does playing the cop in a game of cops and robbers make the kid a good person? Does bluffing in poker make you a bad person and a compulsive liar? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |

masternerdguy
State Protectorate Caldari State
1481
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 00:32:00 -
[139] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Scipio Artelius wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:[This time though, the robbers take the ball the kids are using to play kick ball. In the idea of making their own game within recess more enjoyable, they've allowed their desire to steal the ball OTHER kids, not part of their game within recess, were using to enjoy themselves in their own way. The robbers have stolen the ball and now the cops are trying to retrieve the ball and return it to the kick ballers. I can't see how taking something from someone not playing the game is in any way connected to EvE. How for example in EvE as a pirate can you reach into another game and steal something from someone? (That's the comparison you've portrayed in the quote) That isn't possible, nor makes any sense as a serious comparison. The only choices anyone can make are in game choices. They can't chose to steal from a player playing CoD online or any other game not connected to the rules of EvE. Because there's more than one way to play EVE. That's part of the appeal no? Non-linear, choice based game play. During recess, I get to choose if I want to explore the swings or if I want to mine for cat poop in the sand box.
This is where I see your reasoning break down. You are working under the assumption that EVE isn't one game but lots of smaller games put together under one name. This just isn't the case.
I pay my $15 a month to get access to log into the EVE server. I cannot choose to pay less and only mine, or only mission, or only PVP, because they are smaller subsets of the larger game called EVE Online.
In addition, even if you think you aren't affecting anyone else, you are. Whenever you buy, sell, or trade, you are manipulating the market for someone else. Whenever you mine, you are mining ore someone else could have mined. When you PVP, the repercussions are obvious. We are all interconnected, and no career in EVE exists in isolation.
In fact, CCP sells the game on this point as you can see in this trailer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08hmqyejCYU
EVE is the game. Mining, missioning, and PVP are just small parts of it. Therefore by logging in to the server you are joining the game, and all that entails. Things are only impossible until they are not. |

Divine Entervention
The Advent of Faith Against ALL Anomalies
120
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 00:32:00 -
[140] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote: In most cases they are just enjoying their own game and not being concerned about the consequences for others, as all the consequences are fictional anyway.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_disengagement |

The Slayer
Vasilkovsky Interstellar Goonswarm Federation
83
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 00:34:00 -
[141] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:
So what about In game piracy? Is that bad? Aer you a bad person for blowing people up?
:doublesnipe: |

Divine Entervention
The Advent of Faith Against ALL Anomalies
120
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 00:35:00 -
[142] - Quote
masternerdguy wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:Scipio Artelius wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:[This time though, the robbers take the ball the kids are using to play kick ball. In the idea of making their own game within recess more enjoyable, they've allowed their desire to steal the ball OTHER kids, not part of their game within recess, were using to enjoy themselves in their own way. The robbers have stolen the ball and now the cops are trying to retrieve the ball and return it to the kick ballers. I can't see how taking something from someone not playing the game is in any way connected to EvE. How for example in EvE as a pirate can you reach into another game and steal something from someone? (That's the comparison you've portrayed in the quote) That isn't possible, nor makes any sense as a serious comparison. The only choices anyone can make are in game choices. They can't chose to steal from a player playing CoD online or any other game not connected to the rules of EvE. Because there's more than one way to play EVE. That's part of the appeal no? Non-linear, choice based game play. During recess, I get to choose if I want to explore the swings or if I want to mine for cat poop in the sand box. This is where I see your reasoning break down. You are working under the assumption that EVE isn't one game but lots of smaller games put together under one name. This just isn't the case. I pay my $15 a month to get access to log into the EVE server. I cannot choose to pay less and only mine, or only mission, or only PVP, because they are smaller subsets of the larger game called EVE Online. In addition, even if you think you aren't affecting anyone else, you are. Whenever you buy, sell, or trade, you are manipulating the market for someone else. Whenever you mine, you are mining ore someone else could have mined. When you PVP, the repercussions are obvious. We are all interconnected, and no career in EVE exists in isolation. In fact, CCP sells the game on this point as you can see in this trailer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08hmqyejCYUEVE is the game. Mining, missioning, and PVP are just small parts of it. Therefore by logging in to the server you are joining the game, and all that entails.
Actually according to the accessibility through skill points, it kind of is multiple smaller games within one big game. A subscription doesn't grant you access to all the content. You make your choices based on how you wish to progress which defines clear distinctions between the different aspects of the game. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
275
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 00:36:00 -
[143] - Quote
Presumes to judge, but will not accept judgement in return.
A sure sign of moral decrepitude, duplicity, insincerity and hypocrisy. |

Divine Entervention
The Advent of Faith Against ALL Anomalies
120
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 00:36:00 -
[144] - Quote
The Slayer wrote:Divine Entervention wrote: So what about In game piracy? Is that bad? Aer you a bad person for blowing people up? :doublesnipe:
It would be circumstantial depending on what and how it happened. |

Divine Entervention
The Advent of Faith Against ALL Anomalies
120
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 00:37:00 -
[145] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Presumes to judge, but will not accept judgement in return.
A sure sign of moral decrepitude, duplicity, insincerity and hypocrisy.
I've never stated you're not allowed to judge me however you wish. In fact I've stated quite the opposite. You think of me however you like, that's a right afforded to all of us.
The difference between us is I don't really care what you decide about me, because to me, you're not a person who's opinion I feel I have to value.
You on the other hand, well you present yourself as being one who needs to be perceived as correct. Probably due to an insecurity on your end where you can't handle being perceived in a manner you do not see yourself.
Say what you will about me, unless you're a person who's opinion I value, it's just noise.
I shouldn't be a person who's opinion you value, yet your intent on painting me in a light that allows for you to believe anything I say isn't correct because you feel compelled enough to care about the message I state. |

masternerdguy
State Protectorate Caldari State
1481
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 00:38:00 -
[146] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote: Actually according to the accessibility through skill points, it kind of is multiple smaller games within one big game. A subscription doesn't grant you access to all the content. You make your choices based on how you wish to progress which defines clear distinctions between the different aspects of the game.
Incorrect. Anyone can train to fly a titan, it just takes a while. Just because it takes time to progress into a ship does not mean that the content is blocked off to you.
And the distinctions aren't so clear as evidenced by battle badgers, battle ventures, mining rokhs, and bait orcas. The ships and modules are just the tools, not the content itself. Things are only impossible until they are not. |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20005
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 00:38:00 -
[147] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Actually according to the accessibility through skill points, it kind of is multiple smaller games within one big game. Actually, according to the actual game mechanics and not some contrived and arbitrarily made-up separation into activities, they're they're all the same singular game: EVE.
You choose to play it or you don't. If you choose to play it, you've made the same choice as the gankers and scammers.
So, again, does playing the cop in a game of cops and robbers make the kid a good person? Does bluffing in poker make you a bad person and a compulsive liar?
These are simple questions and the only reason you refuse to answer them and instead try this desperate song-dance number where you cut EVE into separate pieces is that you know that your answer will completely demolish your entire stance. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |

Spaja Saist
The Scope Gallente Federation
7
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 00:38:00 -
[148] - Quote
Erica Dusette wrote:Spaja Saist wrote:CCP seems to like running a game were being an ******* is the main goal. Playing this game for the last 10 and a half years has taught me I would never want to go to Iceland. You dump a lot of **** onto a game that's kept you fixed for ten years.  What're you truly bitter about?
I get tired of the same jackholes who have nothing better to do but mess with people on the forums. It serves no purpose other than to show everyone that they are in fact assholes in real life. I have no problem with someone wanting to be a sociopath in the game but when they come to the forums and attack anyone who has issues with the game it just proves they are as bad in real life as their characters in the game.
In other words keep your crazy in the game. |

Blodhgarm Dethahal
Transcendent Sedition Dustm3n
84
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 00:40:00 -
[149] - Quote
Aih-Li Tahn wrote:Baneken wrote:To answer OP's question:
We do it because we can and without conflict this game would be boring and best way to create conflict is to shoot someone and even better is to do it with friends, so you can share the experience.
yes conflict is good and GAINING from conflict is fun and producive, but conflict with just losing for everyone dosent make sense!!! can u explain that for me pls? thats all im trying to get
Do scammmers lose when they hit their mark? Do gankers lose when they strike a prime target?
There is definitely profit involved... you are just upset you are on the recieving end. -Bl+¦d |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
275
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 00:41:00 -
[150] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Presumes to judge, but will not accept judgement in return.
A sure sign of moral decrepitude, duplicity, insincerity and hypocrisy. I've never stated you're not allowed to judge me however you wish. In fact I've stated quite the opposite. You think of me however you like, that's a right afforded to all of us.
Yes, it is.
Which invalidates all the pages and pages of posting you have made, as merely a personal opinion and your own personal judgement of others.
Not a universal truth. Just your own personal prejudice and bias.
Spaja Saist: You have literally hoped that someone gets harmed physically IRL here in these discussions. What do you have to say for yourself on that? |

Divine Entervention
The Advent of Faith Against ALL Anomalies
120
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 00:41:00 -
[151] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:Actually according to the accessibility through skill points, it kind of is multiple smaller games within one big game. Actually, according to the actual game mechanics and not some contrived and arbitrarily made-up separation into activities, they're they're all the same singular game: EVE. You choose to play it or you don't. If you choose to play it, you've made the same choice as the gankers and scammers. So, again, does playing the cop in a game of cops and robbers make the kid a good person? Does bluffing in poker make you a bad person and a compulsive liar?
So camping a station is exactly the same as mining in high sec.
Gotcha |

Divine Entervention
The Advent of Faith Against ALL Anomalies
120
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 00:42:00 -
[152] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Presumes to judge, but will not accept judgement in return.
A sure sign of moral decrepitude, duplicity, insincerity and hypocrisy. I've never stated you're not allowed to judge me however you wish. In fact I've stated quite the opposite. You think of me however you like, that's a right afforded to all of us. Yes, it is. Which invalidates all the pages and pages of posting you have made, as merely a personal opinion and your own personal judgement of others. Not a universal truth. Just your own personal prejudice and bias.
Sadly it's not my own, considering society looks down upon people who's objective is to cause misery in others. |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20005
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 00:42:00 -
[153] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:So camping a station is exactly the same as mining in high sec. Yes.
Does playing the cop in a game of cops and robbers make the kid a good person? Does bluffing in poker make you a bad person and a compulsive liar?
Quote:Sadly it's not my own, considering society looks down upon people who's objective is to cause misery in others. GǪa trait that you can't determine merely from playing a game. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |

Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
630
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 00:44:00 -
[154] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:
Every single person I have interacted with in game has been playing within the rules and with the tools provided. It is clear that they have applied ethical standards to themselves at a player level without any issue.
I have never met anyone in EvE that has deliberately cheated or used tools outside the game, though there are people playing the game that do make those choices (eg. running bot scripts, abusing an exploit, etc.).
The only possible conclusion I can make is that the article above is another ridiculous link designed to denigrate the community and is totally inappropriate.
eve-bazaar - Discount prices on ships and PLEX. Real savings to drive your ISK further. |

Divine Entervention
The Advent of Faith Against ALL Anomalies
120
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 00:44:00 -
[155] - Quote
Spaja Saist wrote:Erica Dusette wrote:Spaja Saist wrote:CCP seems to like running a game were being an ******* is the main goal. Playing this game for the last 10 and a half years has taught me I would never want to go to Iceland. You dump a lot of **** onto a game that's kept you fixed for ten years.  What're you truly bitter about? I get tired of the same jackholes who have nothing better to do but mess with people on the forums. It serves no purpose other than to show everyone that they are in fact assholes in real life. I have no problem with someone wanting to be a sociopath in the game but when they come to the forums and attack anyone who has issues with the game it just proves they are as bad in real life as their characters in the game. In other words keep your crazy in the game.
I agree with your message but you should not stoop to his level of leveraging personal insults. It detracts from the validity of your stance when you allow yourself to become motivated with a negative intention.
You have promise, your heart is in the right place. Do not squander it on a petty squabble. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
275
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 00:44:00 -
[156] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Sadly it's not my own, considering society looks down upon people who's objective is to cause misery in others.
And as has been demonstrated here, society looks down upon you as being a presumptuous, biased, prejudiced, insincere, dishonest and altogether hypocritical individual, both in action and intent.
Therefore, that must be what you are. Because we perceive you to be.
That is, after all, how you presume to claim that others are, what you perceive them to be, is it not? |

Divine Entervention
The Advent of Faith Against ALL Anomalies
120
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 00:45:00 -
[157] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Divine Entervention wrote: Every single person I have interacted with in game has been playing within the rules and with the tools provided. It is clear that they have applied ethical standards to themselves at a player level without any issue. I have never met anyone in EvE that has deliberately cheated or used tools outside the game, though there are people playing the game that do make those choices (eg. running bot scripts, abusing an exploit, etc.). The only possible conclusion I can make is that the article above is another ridiculous link designed to denigrate the community and is totally inappropriate.
It explains that people are willing to disconnect themselves from their own actions. |

Divine Entervention
The Advent of Faith Against ALL Anomalies
120
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 00:47:00 -
[158] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:Sadly it's not my own, considering society looks down upon people who's objective is to cause misery in others. And as has been demonstrated here, society looks down upon you as being a presumptuous, biased, prejudiced, insincere, dishonest and altogether hypocritical individual, both in action and intent. Therefore, that must be what you are. Because we perceive you to be. That is, after all, how you presume to claim that others are, what you perceive them to be, is it not?
You may think what you wish.
The other side of that coin means I get to think what I wish.
Luckily for me, I have alot more weight on my side. I understand you though, I use to be like you. But I got better. |

Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
3100
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 00:47:00 -
[159] - Quote
How on earth has he not been banned yet? The last, like, 4 pages are just one long violation. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á
Psychotic Monk for CSM9.
|

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
278
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 00:48:00 -
[160] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:It explains that people are willing to disconnect themselves from their own actions. The context being EVE.
And, ironically, and as is so often the case with the most vocal of hypocrites, also how you are disconnecting yourself from the repercussions and logical consequences of your own behavior and posited perspective, by thinking that you are not subject to the same judgement you would apply onto others.
It cuts both ways. That is the nature of responsible morality. You are not acting as you preach. You are infact, yourself, demonstrating a gross disconnection between judging your own actions by the same standards you apply to others. |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20006
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 00:49:00 -
[161] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:It explains that people are willing to disconnect themselves from their own actions. The context being EVE. It certainly has you down to a t.
GÇ£Another disengagement technique is advantageous comparison. Moral judgments of conduct can be influenced by structuring what the conduct is compared against. In social comparison the GÇ£moralityGÇ¥ of acts depends more on the ideological allegiances of the labelers than on the acts themselves.GÇ¥ Put another way: personal prejudice.
Anyway, the term you're looking for is GÇ£magic circleGÇ¥.
Quote:Luckily for me, I have alot more weight on my side. I understand you though, I use to be like you. But I got better. Prejudice, bigotry, and unfounded assumption offers no weight, and that is all you have on your side. Nor is an increased reliance on them in any way a turn for the betterGǪ GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |

Helia Tranquilis
State War Academy Caldari State
12
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 00:50:00 -
[162] - Quote
Anonymity brings out the sociopath.
On more serious note the concentration of who you might see as "bad guys" in the game derives directly from natural selection.
As CCP has stated several times, scamming, ganking and other such emergent game play is encouraged. This leads to the golden rule where weak perish and strong flourish. Over time the balance of "bad guys" vs. "good guys" shifts to the "bad" side. And, as we know, alts give voices to our hidden personalities. Why not play the bad guy? One might find it relaxing.
Another idea might be that the group you are referring to tends to be one of the loudest around. That fact has kept their corner of the sandbox strong, which may be the cause of your concern.
If anything, take the game as a learning experience; everything is a scam, everyone will want to shoot at you, maybe something will rub on you like this:
reading the fine print |

Divine Entervention
The Advent of Faith Against ALL Anomalies
120
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 00:50:00 -
[163] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:It explains that people are willing to disconnect themselves from their own actions. The context being EVE. It certainly has you down to a t. GÇ£Another disengagement technique is advantageous comparison. Moral judgments of conduct can be influenced by structuring what the conduct is compared against. In social comparison the GÇ£moralityGÇ¥ of acts depends more on the ideological allegiances of the labelers than on the acts themselves.GÇ¥ Put another way: personal prejudice. Anyway, the term you're looking for is GÇ£magic circleGÇ¥. You're the one who keeps trying to compare morality to poker. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
278
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 00:51:00 -
[164] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:You're the one who keeps trying to compare morality to poker.
And you are the one who keeps trying to judge others, without applying the same standards to himself. |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20006
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 00:53:00 -
[165] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:You're the one who keeps trying to compare morality to poker. No, that's just you being unable to distinguish what goes on in your head with what goes on in the real world. No such comparison has ever been made.
But since you bring it up, does bluffing in poker make you a bad person and a compulsive liar? Does playing the cop in a game of cops and robbers make the kid a good person? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |

Divine Entervention
The Advent of Faith Against ALL Anomalies
120
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 00:53:00 -
[166] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:It explains that people are willing to disconnect themselves from their own actions. The context being EVE. And, ironically, and as is so often the case with the most vocal of hypocrites, also how you are disconnecting yourself from the repercussions and logical consequences of your own behavior and posited perspective, by thinking that you are not subject to the same judgement you would apply onto others. It cuts both ways. That is the nature of responsible morality. You are not acting as you preach. You are infact, yourself, demonstrating a gross disconnection between judging your own actions by the same standards you apply to others.
Well whatever, all we can do is present our opinions. How it's perceived and judged is entirely out of our hands.
I've stated my case, you've stated yours. Yours revolves around attacking me personally, enforcing my point that bad people exist and be their true selves vicariously through EVE.
Mine revolves around the fact that people who make the choice to do bad things are bad people. Which for some reason influences you to wish to do bad things to me. |

SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2497
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 00:53:00 -
[167] - Quote
Eve is the libertarian ideal given wings. |

Slade Trillgon
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
2599
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 00:54:00 -
[168] - Quote
I am late to the thread. But all I need to do is say to the OP that it is worse in the real world.
"Tan has also seen reports of caulk and petroleum jelly injected in black market cosmetic procedure rings."
I also saw a report this morning saying some cosmetic hackers are using fix a flat. Very not cool yet somewhat hilarious considering what it is being used for  |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
278
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 00:54:00 -
[169] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Mine revolves around the fact that people who make the choice to do bad things are bad people. Which for some reason influences you to wish to do bad things to me.
You are, from my perspective, a bad person. You are doing bad things to people. |

Divine Entervention
The Advent of Faith Against ALL Anomalies
120
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 00:57:00 -
[170] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:You're the one who keeps trying to compare morality to poker. No, that's just you being unable to distinguish what goes on in your head with what goes on in the real world. No such comparison has ever been made. But since you bring it up, does bluffing in poker make you a bad person and a compulsive liar? Does playing the cop in a game of cops and robbers make the kid a good person?
The real world is you're choosing to sit at your computer and type on the eve forum so you can spread the message that people who do bad things aren't bad people.
Or do you think you're not really you right now?
|

Aih-Li Tahn
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
14
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 00:58:00 -
[171] - Quote
Blodhgarm Dethahal wrote:Do gankers lose when they strike a prime target? the ppl who tried to awox my freighter and sucide gank my empty orca had zero to gain and something to lose. thats my question. why are there ppl who will go to any length to ruin other ppls game? or realy why so many, and im starting to beleive eve is full of very loud evil people.... sorry divine entervention i tried to stay positive but this thread shows i was wrong to try |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20006
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 00:58:00 -
[172] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:I've stated my case, you've stated yours. Yours Mine revolves around attacking me everyone who disagrees with me personally, enforcing my point that bad people exist and be their true selves vicariously through EVE.
Mine My unsupported claim revolves around the fact unproven assumption that people who make the choice to do bad things play the game as intended are bad people. You had a couple of misspellings in there. I fixed them up for you.
Quote:Which for some reason influences you to wish to do bad things to me. Could you point to this actually happening? So far, the only one who has expressed any such wish is the guy who agreed with you and who wanted me to die for pointing out that your claims are prejudiced.
Quote:The real world is you're choosing to sit at your computer and type on the eve forum so you can spread the message that people who do bad things aren't bad people. No, that's once again just you confusing what goes on in your head with what actually goes on in the real world.
By the way, you never answered the question: does bluffing in poker make you a bad person and a compulsive liar? Does playing the cop in a game of cops and robbers make the kid a good person? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |

Divine Entervention
The Advent of Faith Against ALL Anomalies
120
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 00:59:00 -
[173] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:Mine revolves around the fact that people who make the choice to do bad things are bad people. Which for some reason influences you to wish to do bad things to me. You are, from my perspective, a bad person. You are doing bad things to people. Furthermore you are duplicitous and insincere in discourse. Whether you are aware of it or not, you repeatedly break multiple rules of unilateral and objective communication. You are not as smart as you think you are, you are not as educated as you think you are, your morality is not as honed as you think it is. In all these things, you strike me as a dilettante. A hack. At worst, a demagog. Someone who has taken the first steps but is too cowardly to apply to themselves the morality they espouse and would apply to others.
Alright well, you've already disrespected me. Because of the way you chose to interact with me, I get to choose to not take your conclusion as an honest assessment.
You performed an action that resulted in a reaction of my considering your stance invalid. Consequence of your actions.
#accountability |

Divine Entervention
The Advent of Faith Against ALL Anomalies
120
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 01:02:00 -
[174] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:I've stated my case, you've stated yours. Yours Mine revolves around attacking me everyone who disagrees with me personally, enforcing my point that bad people exist and be their true selves vicariously through EVE.
Mine My unsupported claim revolves around the fact unproven assumption that people who make the choice to do bad things are bad people. You had a couple of misspellings in there. I fixed them up for you. Quote:Which for some reason influences you to wish to do bad things to me. Could you point to this actually happening? So far, the only one who has expressed any such wish is the guy who agreed with you and who wanted me to die for pointing out that your claims are prejudiced. Quote:The real world is you're choosing to sit at your computer and type on the eve forum so you can spread the message that people who do bad things aren't bad people. No, that's once again just you confusing what goes on in your head with what actually goes on in the real world. By the way, you never answered the question: does bluffing in poker make you a bad person and a compulsive liar? Does playing the cop in a game of cops and robbers make the kid a good person?
You must be scraping the bottom of the barrel if you're resorting to correcting spelling errors. And if you read the thread, you'll see where Salvos Rhoska completely disrespected my request to not ask me about my personal appearance.
#thebest |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20006
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 01:03:00 -
[175] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Alright well, you've already disrespected me. When did he do that?
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |

Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
432
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 01:04:00 -
[176] - Quote
Aih-Li Tahn wrote:Blodhgarm Dethahal wrote:Do gankers lose when they strike a prime target? the ppl who tried to awox my freighter and sucide gank my empty orca had zero to gain and something to lose. thats my question. why are there ppl who will go to any length to ruin other ppls game? or realy why so many, and im starting to beleive eve is full of very loud evil people.... sorry divine entervention i tried to stay positive  but this thread shows i was wrong to try
They had a killmail to gain.
Some ppl genuinely try and make ISK from PvP. Some PvPers justify PvP by saying they make ISK that way but do not really. Some have other silly justifications for ganking like "the code". But some people are just honest and say we gank anything that makes a good killmail. |

masternerdguy
State Protectorate Caldari State
1483
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 01:05:00 -
[177] - Quote
I feel obligated to point out that just because someone doesn't respect you doesn't mean that their opinion is wrong. Things are only impossible until they are not. |

Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
432
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 01:07:00 -
[178] - Quote
masternerdguy wrote:I feel obligated to point out that just because someone doesn't respect you doesn't mean that their opinion is wrong.
What? Are you saying Ad Hominiem is not a valid form of rational argument ? |

Pix Severus
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
447
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 01:07:00 -
[179] - Quote
http://i.imgur.com/xblF4.gif |

Divine Entervention
The Advent of Faith Against ALL Anomalies
120
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 01:07:00 -
[180] - Quote
masternerdguy wrote:I feel obligated to point out that just because someone doesn't respect you doesn't mean that their opinion is wrong.
and it doesn't mean it's right.
From personal experience, people who choose to disrespect others show a tendency to say things for the sole purpose of upsetting others to feel a sense of accomplishment at having an impact on the life of another. Knowing that he's displayed a correlative similarity between people who say mean things for their own amusement, it gives me reason to believe he might be doing so at this very moment for that purpose, which for my own sake it would be better to ignore and accept the judgment of someone who's proven himself to me as one who's opinion I can believe is honest. |

Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
3100
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 01:07:00 -
[181] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:masternerdguy wrote:I feel obligated to point out that just because someone doesn't respect you doesn't mean that their opinion is wrong. and it doesn't mean it's right.
In this case, is almost literally true. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á
Psychotic Monk for CSM9.
|

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
279
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 01:07:00 -
[182] - Quote
Whether you find it offensive if I ask if you look like your avatar, is completely immaterial to me.
Its as immaterial to me, as it obviously is to you that you don't care that I find it extremely offensive that you would not answer a simple direct and neutral question that I posited to you. And to add further insult to that offense, you started speculating wildly on my person for having asked that simple direct and neutral question, when I had given no cause to do so.
Again, you are failing to apply your own moral precepts to yourself, and evading personal responsibility for your own actions, as measured not only against your own morality, but those of others around you with whom you are interacting, and whos morality you are REPEATEDLY stepping and infringing on.
This is all irrelevant though, because you have already shown me what you truly are. I know what you are now. I understand exactly how broken, frail and false you are.
I pity you, sincerely.
At first I thought you had some actual understanding and direction behind your posting.
Now I think there is just some juvenile emo with a moral crisis there behind that persona (and that avatar that you will not answer upon), but who is not yet psychologically and socially developed enough to understand the unilateral and consensual nature of morality in adult and civilized society. Your brand of moral absolutism is not only childish, you aren't living up to it. Nor taking responsibility for it. You aren't applying to yourself what you are expecting from others. That also, is most definately, childish.
Read some Nietzsche. Read some Sartre. And hang your head in shame from what you learn from them. |

masternerdguy
State Protectorate Caldari State
1483
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 01:08:00 -
[183] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:masternerdguy wrote:I feel obligated to point out that just because someone doesn't respect you doesn't mean that their opinion is wrong. and it doesn't mean it's right.
You are correct. Whether or not someone has respect for you as a person has no bearing on whether or not they are correct about the topic at hand. Attacking people for not respecting you is beside the point and irrelevant. Things are only impossible until they are not. |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20006
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 01:09:00 -
[184] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:masternerdguy wrote:I feel obligated to point out that just because someone doesn't respect you doesn't mean that their opinion is wrong. and it doesn't mean it's right. GǪbut as luck would have it, no-one is trying to make that particular value judgement. The only thing someone tried to do was the kind fallacious dismissal of an argument that MNG mentions. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |

Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
631
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 01:09:00 -
[185] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:It explains that people are willing to disconnect themselves from their own actions. The context being EVE. Wrong.
It explains that they have very much connected themselves to their actions. They have chosen to play within the rules and with the tools provided to them. As a person, they are making the moral and ethical choices that society expects.
Plain and simple.
Any other judgement you make on the subject is purely a result of your paranoid personality disorder and superiority complex. eve-bazaar - Discount prices on ships and PLEX. Real savings to drive your ISK further. |

Kais Klip
State Protectorate Caldari State
17
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 01:13:00 -
[186] - Quote
Aih-Li Tahn wrote:Blodhgarm Dethahal wrote:Do gankers lose when they strike a prime target? the ppl who tried to awox my freighter and sucide gank my empty orca had zero to gain and something to lose. thats my question. why are there ppl who will go to any length to ruin other ppls game? or realy why so many, and im starting to beleive eve is full of very loud evil people.... sorry divine entervention i tried to stay positive  but this thread shows i was wrong to try
You misunderstand, for some your upset is the reward, this doesn't mean you should stop playing the game, rather stop being upset; have a laugh at your own misfortune and suddenly both parties are being entertained. Don't get me wrong, I play to have my own fun first and foremost, but a person turning around and saying they enjoyed the fight, that they learned from the loss or had more fun from it than they would have if they had won adds a sweet cherry on op of another cake.
'They' will keep having fun, why not join them in laughing?
Now some cannot play with such legalised trolls, for lack of a better phrase, and they will have more fun in another game. If you fail to take heed to my advice, but still want to stick with eve, think of it this way; don't give them tears and they'll move on to find another watering hole. |

Divine Entervention
The Advent of Faith Against ALL Anomalies
120
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 01:15:00 -
[187] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Whether you find it offensive if I ask if you look like your avatar, is completely immaterial to me.
Its as immaterial to me, as it obviously is to you that you don't care that I find it extremely offensive that you would not answer a simple direct and neutral question that I posited to you. And to add further insult to that offense, you started speculating wildly on my person for having asked that simple direct and neutral question, when I had given no cause to do so.
Again, you are failing to apply your own moral precepts to yourself, and evading personal responsibility for your own actions, as measured not only against your own morality, but those of others around you with whom you are interacting, and whos morality you are REPEATEDLY stepping and infringing on.
This is all irrelevant though, because you have already shown me what you truly are. I know what you are now. I understand exactly how broken, frail and false you are.
I pity you, sincerely.
This is like textbook trolling right here.
Let me find the psychological report about those who troll.
http://www.helsinkitimes.fi/finland/finland-news/domestic/9776-research-internet-trolls-are-sadistic-narcissistic-and-psychopathic.html
Considering that your post is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting me in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response, which happens to be the very definition of trolling according to CCP's forum rules, coupled with the link I posted that is a psychological report on those who troll on the internet:
Would you feel that you are either a Sadist, Narcissist, or a Psychopath? Or are you completely disconnected from your own actions? |

Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
433
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 01:16:00 -
[188] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:
Generally most EVE players are sociopaths though.
|

Divine Entervention
The Advent of Faith Against ALL Anomalies
120
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 01:18:00 -
[189] - Quote
Hasikan Miallok wrote:Divine Entervention wrote: Generally most EVE players are sociopaths though.
Yea, i know.  |

Aih-Li Tahn
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
14
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 01:19:00 -
[190] - Quote
Kais Klip wrote:Aih-Li Tahn wrote:Blodhgarm Dethahal wrote:Do gankers lose when they strike a prime target? the ppl who tried to awox my freighter and sucide gank my empty orca had zero to gain and something to lose. thats my question. why are there ppl who will go to any length to ruin other ppls game? or realy why so many, and im starting to beleive eve is full of very loud evil people.... sorry divine entervention i tried to stay positive  but this thread shows i was wrong to try You misunderstand, for some your upset is the reward, this doesn't mean you should stop playing the game, rather stop being upset; have a laugh at your own misfortune and suddenly both parties are being entertained. Don't get me wrong, I play to have my own fun first and foremost, but a person turning around and saying they enjoyed the fight, that they learned from the loss or had more fun from it than they would have if they had won adds a sweet cherry on op of another cake. 'They' will keep having fun, why not join them in laughing? Now some cannot play with such legalised trolls, for lack of a better phrase, and they will have more fun in another game. If you fail to take heed to my advice, but still want to stick with eve, think of it this way; don't give them tears and they'll move on to find another watering hole. isnt that called stockhulm syndrome and its a bad thing? |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20006
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 01:23:00 -
[191] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:This is like textbook trolling right here. Explaining why your position and argument is incoherent and inconsistent is not trolling GÇö it is only what it is.
Quote:Let me find the psychological report about those who troll. Does it explain that they often try to avoid responding directly to questions or arguments directed at them and instead attempt to inject all manner of diversions and fallacies in the hope that it will hide the fact that they have no concrete argument to begin with? We have already established fairly well what category you fall into, so the results in that article should hardly come as a surprise to you.
Quote:Considering that your post is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting me His post is deliberately designed to point out that your playing the victim makes only exposes the hypocrisy of your argumentation.
You know something that is completely made up and devoid of any kind of basis in reality? InterestingGǪ GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |

masternerdguy
State Protectorate Caldari State
1484
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 01:23:00 -
[192] - Quote
Aih-Li Tahn wrote:Kais Klip wrote:Aih-Li Tahn wrote:Blodhgarm Dethahal wrote:Do gankers lose when they strike a prime target? the ppl who tried to awox my freighter and sucide gank my empty orca had zero to gain and something to lose. thats my question. why are there ppl who will go to any length to ruin other ppls game? or realy why so many, and im starting to beleive eve is full of very loud evil people.... sorry divine entervention i tried to stay positive  but this thread shows i was wrong to try You misunderstand, for some your upset is the reward, this doesn't mean you should stop playing the game, rather stop being upset; have a laugh at your own misfortune and suddenly both parties are being entertained. Don't get me wrong, I play to have my own fun first and foremost, but a person turning around and saying they enjoyed the fight, that they learned from the loss or had more fun from it than they would have if they had won adds a sweet cherry on op of another cake. 'They' will keep having fun, why not join them in laughing? Now some cannot play with such legalised trolls, for lack of a better phrase, and they will have more fun in another game. If you fail to take heed to my advice, but still want to stick with eve, think of it this way; don't give them tears and they'll move on to find another watering hole. isnt that called stockhulm syndrome and its a bad thing?
No, Stockholm syndrome when you feel sympathy for the people holding you hostage. Things are only impossible until they are not. |

Kais Klip
State Protectorate Caldari State
17
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 01:23:00 -
[193] - Quote
Aih-Li Tahn wrote:Kais Klip wrote:Aih-Li Tahn wrote:Blodhgarm Dethahal wrote:Do gankers lose when they strike a prime target? the ppl who tried to awox my freighter and sucide gank my empty orca had zero to gain and something to lose. thats my question. why are there ppl who will go to any length to ruin other ppls game? or realy why so many, and im starting to beleive eve is full of very loud evil people.... sorry divine entervention i tried to stay positive  but this thread shows i was wrong to try You misunderstand, for some your upset is the reward, this doesn't mean you should stop playing the game, rather stop being upset; have a laugh at your own misfortune and suddenly both parties are being entertained. Don't get me wrong, I play to have my own fun first and foremost, but a person turning around and saying they enjoyed the fight, that they learned from the loss or had more fun from it than they would have if they had won adds a sweet cherry on op of another cake. 'They' will keep having fun, why not join them in laughing? Now some cannot play with such legalised trolls, for lack of a better phrase, and they will have more fun in another game. If you fail to take heed to my advice, but still want to stick with eve, think of it this way; don't give them tears and they'll move on to find another watering hole. isnt that called stockhulm syndrome and its a bad thing?
Only if you take my advice as "laugh at yourself along with the bullies". I'm not saying that, what I'm proposing is that he is being targeted soley because of his response; in short if he stops crying (by going "lol gf") the bullies go away. If the problem persists, they are not bullies on the strictest sense; they are not removing more fun from him than they are gaining themselves. That means they're on a simple business venture, and in that case it's only bullying if the food chain is bullying.
"It's not personal." Is my message; he's being mugged in a sidestreet, not bullied on the playground. The former is logical and understandable for me, the latter is too but incodonable for me. |

Divine Entervention
The Advent of Faith Against ALL Anomalies
120
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 01:31:00 -
[194] - Quote
Kais Klip wrote:
"It's not personal." Is my message; he's being mugged in a sidestreet, not bullied on the playground. The former is logical and understandable for me, the latter is too but incodonable for me.
Well I dunno man, that's actually really personal. Like if I were mugged on a side street I'd take it incredibly personally since it was my person being mugged.
The mugger might not mean it personally, but that's because he's deficient in moral character and takes actions against people without regard of their personal situation solely for his own benefit.
That's wrong. |

Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
631
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 01:32:00 -
[195] - Quote
Aih-Li Tahn wrote:the ppl who tried to awox my freighter and sucide gank my empty orca had zero to gain and something to lose. thats my question. why are there ppl who will go to any length to ruin other ppls game? or realy why so many, and im starting to beleive eve is full of very loud evil people.... sorry divine entervention i tried to stay positive  but this thread shows i was wrong to try Your idea of gain and loss is different to theirs, which is also perfectly fine in our society.
Different people can have different goals and they can sometimes compete. Someone is going to win and someone is going to lose.
It's not wrong in EvE for people to shoot at you. It's not wrong for them to blow up your ship, just as it's not wrong if you are adequately tanked and Concord gets them first in highsec.
It's totally wrong if they did that in real life.
In a single shard sandbox game, what is wrong is expecting that you have the right to play the way you want, but others don't have that same right. eve-bazaar - Discount prices on ships and PLEX. Real savings to drive your ISK further. |

Kais Klip
State Protectorate Caldari State
17
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 01:37:00 -
[196] - Quote
See I avoid trying to understand what's "right" or "wrong", to me they're just opinions and what's more important is that myself and those closest too me (thereby again, myself) benefit. So I don't take account of anything from a moral point of view, especially something as inconsequential as a spaceship internet game.
My main message is much of our entertainment is rooted in zero sum competition, be it football or chess. When you lose, you still enjoyed playing the game, and would rather play it again and lose than sit out, would you not? Now when I was little I had friends that went against that, but as we all grew up we realised that having fun does not need to necettate with winning. I'm not saying some of you never grew up, only that you are treating Eve differently than you do any other competitive game, which I'm sure you play and enjoy. |

Angelica Dreamstar
Epic Boo Bees
550
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 01:38:00 -
[197] - Quote
EVE is real. The real world would be the same if there weren't laws protecting the stupid. Well... the killing might be an issue, but that would regulate itself, because people would flock together in groups protecting each other. If you leave your group or can't actually provide any benefits for yours, though... then natural selection happens. |

Divine Entervention
The Advent of Faith Against ALL Anomalies
120
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 01:38:00 -
[198] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:
In a single shard sandbox game, what is wrong is expecting that you have the right to play the way you want, but others don't have that same right.
This statement sums it up nicely. It's wrong for people to expect that they have the right to play the way they want, but others don't have that right.
So since I have the same right to play the game in a manner where all I want to do all day is mine in high security, then since it's how I want to play EVE since it's a valid way to play the game, that people who wish to enforce their way to play upon me by attacking and blowing me up are wrong.
Thanks for clearing it up for everyone with your exact quote.
O wait! Except for you it only applies to how you want to play and not how others do.
NVM |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
280
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 01:40:00 -
[199] - Quote
Divine Entervention, did you at any point consider that the following actions your part where offensive to me:
A) Refusal to answer my neutral query whether you look in person, as does your avatar ingame B) Adding further insult ontop of that by throwing aspersions and wild speculations at me for asking a neutral query.
These where both extremely offensive to me.
My post you quote is not meant to ellicit any kind of response. You mean very little to me, as I perceive you, as you turned out to be. A very small and insignificant person who goes around telling other people they are bad, without analysing his own behavior first or applying the same standards to himself.
Those are my observations of you. Those are my conclusions of you. Those are my judgements of you. They are a result of your own behavior. You are responsible for those. I HOLD you responsible for them.
Just as you presume to judge others here, I do so onto you, and have found you a pitiable person and very wanting in moral fortitude or direction.
And now you whine that I am a sociopath/sadist for doing exactly the same thing you have? That is ironic, and ultimately reinforces and confirms my position in regards to you. |

Malrikk
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
5
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 01:40:00 -
[200] - Quote
Eve Online is actually a great argument against gun control. It's one of the things I find fascinating about Eve Online because it delves farther into human nature. There's a reason even CCP needs Concord.
Removing the argument of likely-hood, can you imagine how humanity would treat one another if there was no law enforcement in a post apoc world? Sure eventually small towns would sprout up and common justice would be around, but anyone not under the direct protection of such a safety net would most likely be raped, pilfered and murdered within a small time frame.
Even in today's world it happens every single day. |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20006
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 01:42:00 -
[201] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:The mugger might not mean it personally, but that's because he's deficient in moral character and takes actions against people without regard of their personal situation solely for his own benefit. No, it's because it's not personal. You, as a person, had nothing to do with it, nor was morality a factor in going after you rather than someone else.
Sure, you will probably develop a trauma centered on the question GÇ£why me?GÇ¥, but that's just it: the healing process will entail the realisation that it's not a relevant question because it was never personal GÇö that it was just an irrational projection of your emotions onto his motives and motivations.
Quote:So since I have the same right to play the game in a manner where all I want to do all day is mine in high security, then since it's how I want to play EVE since it's a valid way to play the game, that people who wish to enforce their way to play upon me by attacking and blowing me up are wrong. No, they're not. You are wrong in thinking that you have any GÇ£rightGÇ¥ to play the game the way you like without intervention from others. Just like everyone else, you have to enforce your way on others to get what you want, and they have to do the same to you to get what they want.
It's simply how a multiplayer sandbox works.
Quote:O wait! Except for you it only applies to how you want to play and not how others do. No, it applies equally to everyone. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |

Kais Klip
State Protectorate Caldari State
17
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 01:44:00 -
[202] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Scipio Artelius wrote:
In a single shard sandbox game, what is wrong is expecting that you have the right to play the way you want, but others don't have that same right.
This statement sums it up nicely. It's wrong for people to expect that they have the right to play the way they want, but others don't have that right. So since I have the same right to play the game in a manner where all I want to do all day is mine in high security, then since it's how I want to play EVE since it's a valid way to play the game, that people who wish to enforce their way to play upon me by attacking and blowing me up are wrong.Thanks for clearing it up for everyone with your exact quote. O wait! Except for you it only applies to how you want to play and not how others do. NVM
But to them, and the system as a whole blowing you up is no different than you mining an asteroid, a finite resource, thus taking the opportunity away from someone wanting to mine it as much. It's proven economics.
I'm saying you are just as bad as they are, and given that you consider yourself good, the best thing to do is discard the whole terminology altogether since it is perspective, as demonstrated. Now good or bad might exist, I might be the colourblind man claiming the Green Apple is red, but if you find yourself in a room with armed colourblind men and they say the Green Apple is red...
Oh for **** sake, who took the apple? |

Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
631
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 01:44:00 -
[203] - Quote
Malrikk wrote:Removing the argument of likely-hood, can you imagine how humanity would treat one another if there was no law enforcement in a post apoc world? Sure eventually small towns would sprout up and common justice would be around, but anyone not under the direct protection of such a safety net would most likely be raped, pilfered and murdered within a small time frame. You only need to look at history to see how humanity would act.
Just removing law and order wouldn't cause a mass shift in peoples basic needs and wants. Order would emerge out of the chaos, not because we are intelligent beings, but because at a basic level, survival is an aim for all species, even those that have no cognitive thought.
The need to survive would result in a form of order emerging, just as in the past.
eve-bazaar - Discount prices on ships and PLEX. Real savings to drive your ISK further. |

Kais Klip
State Protectorate Caldari State
17
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 01:47:00 -
[204] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Malrikk wrote:Removing the argument of likely-hood, can you imagine how humanity would treat one another if there was no law enforcement in a post apoc world? Sure eventually small towns would sprout up and common justice would be around, but anyone not under the direct protection of such a safety net would most likely be raped, pilfered and murdered within a small time frame. You only need to look at history to see how humanity would act. Just removing law and order wouldn't cause a mass shift in peoples basic needs and wants. Order would emerge out of the chaos, not because we are intelligent beings, but because at a basic level, survival is an aim for all species, even those that have no cognitive thought. The need to survive would result in a form of order emerging, just as in the past.
Both of you are assuming you are not typing this out in the Highsec part of the world :D
Both worlds are the same, except one has spaceships and the other nipples. |

Divine Entervention
The Advent of Faith Against ALL Anomalies
120
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 01:52:00 -
[205] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Divine Entervention, did you at any point consider that the following actions your part where offensive to me:
A) Refusal to answer my neutral query whether you look in person, as does your avatar ingame B) Adding further insult ontop of that by throwing aspersions and wild speculations at me for asking a neutral query.
These where both extremely offensive to me.
My post you quote is not meant to ellicit any kind of response. You mean very little to me, as I perceive you, as you turned out to be. A very small and insignificant person who goes around telling other people they are bad, without analysing his own behavior first or applying the same standards to himself.
Those are my observations of you. Those are my conclusions of you. Those are my judgements of you. They are a result of your own behavior. You are responsible for those. I HOLD you responsible for them.
Just as you presume to judge others here, I do so onto you, and have found you a pitiable person and very wanting in moral fortitude or direction.
And now you whine that I am a sociopath/sadist for doing exactly the same thing you have? That is ironic, and ultimately reinforces and confirms my position in regards to you.
Upon making an offensive request to me for my personal information, the protection of my privacy ranks higher than your obsessive focus on my physical appearance IRL.
I'm sorry you're the type of person that feels it necessary to become emotionally upset because I do not care to share with you my personal information that is no business of yours, but I cannot hold myself accountable for your irrational thought process.
I'm sorry you're upset, and I hope you get over the fact that I wont indulge you with my private information.
If you seriously wish to know what it is I look like, well maybe throughout the course of time we may develop a friendship where I feel comfortable with sharing my self with you. Until then though, all you've demonstrated to me is a severe disrespect.
Because of this demonstration, I have the right to label you as someone who's opinions and irrational desires of me should be regarded as such and ignored.
Sorry |

Divine Entervention
The Advent of Faith Against ALL Anomalies
120
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 01:54:00 -
[206] - Quote
Kais Klip wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:Scipio Artelius wrote:
In a single shard sandbox game, what is wrong is expecting that you have the right to play the way you want, but others don't have that same right.
This statement sums it up nicely. It's wrong for people to expect that they have the right to play the way they want, but others don't have that right. So since I have the same right to play the game in a manner where all I want to do all day is mine in high security, then since it's how I want to play EVE since it's a valid way to play the game, that people who wish to enforce their way to play upon me by attacking and blowing me up are wrong.Thanks for clearing it up for everyone with your exact quote. O wait! Except for you it only applies to how you want to play and not how others do. NVM But to them, and the system as a whole blowing you up is no different than you mining an asteroid, a finite resource, thus taking the opportunity away from someone wanting to mine it as much. It's proven economics. I'm saying you are just as bad as they are, and given that you consider yourself good, the best thing to do is discard the whole terminology altogether since it is perspective, as demonstrated. Now good or bad might exist, I might be the colourblind man claiming the Green Apple is red, but if you find yourself in a room with armed colourblind men and they say the Green Apple is red... Oh for **** sake, who took the apple?
Except the asteroid is not controlled on the other end by a sentient being investing it's time. |

Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
631
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 01:55:00 -
[207] - Quote
Kais Klip wrote:Both of you are assuming you are not typing this out in the Highsec part of the world :D Not quite. I think we are both assuming that in a post apocalypse World, there would be no highsec, or if there is, we aren't referring to that part of, but only to a lawless component with no order.
That's my take on what he meant by his post anyway.
eve-bazaar - Discount prices on ships and PLEX. Real savings to drive your ISK further. |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20006
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 01:58:00 -
[208] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Upon making an offensive request to me for my personal information, the protection of my privacy ranks higher than your obsessive focus on my physical appearance IRL. GǪexcept that none of those actually happened. That's just you making a massive strawman argument to cover for the fact that you knew where his argument was going and knew that it was going to end up in a place that would further expose your prejudice.
Quote:Because of this demonstration, I have the right to label you as someone who's opinions and irrational desires of me should be regarded as such and ignored. Sure, you have the right to do that, but it would be no less prejudiced or hypocritical than the other arbitrary declarations of character you've made.
And again, just because you choose to play the victim doesn't mean that his initial argument was incorrect GÇö only that you couldn't respond to it.
Quote:Except the asteroid is not controlled on the other end by a sentient being investing it's time. GǪbut the competition is, and by mining that asteroid, you've just forced your gameplay decisions on them, which obviously makes you a very nasty and evil person. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |

Divine Entervention
The Advent of Faith Against ALL Anomalies
120
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 01:59:00 -
[209] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:The mugger might not mean it personally, but that's because he's deficient in moral character and takes actions against people without regard of their personal situation solely for his own benefit. No, it's because it's not personal. You, as a person, had nothing to do with it, nor was morality a factor in going after you rather than someone else. Sure, you will probably develop a trauma centered on the question GÇ£why me?GÇ¥, but that's just it: the healing process will entail the realisation that it's not a relevant question because it was never personal GÇö that it was just an irrational projection of your emotions onto his motives and motivations. Quote:So since I have the same right to play the game in a manner where all I want to do all day is mine in high security, then since it's how I want to play EVE since it's a valid way to play the game, that people who wish to enforce their way to play upon me by attacking and blowing me up are wrong. No, they're not. You are wrong in thinking that you have any GÇ£rightGÇ¥ to play the game the way you like without intervention from others. Just like everyone else, you have to enforce your way on others to get what you want, and they have to do the same to you to get what they want. It's simply how a multiplayer sandbox works. Quote:O wait! Except for you it only applies to how you want to play and not how others do. No, it applies equally to everyone.
You are justifying robbing someone of their personal belongings to further an internet argument. You're proclaiming that there is no morality surrounding stealing.
I'm not stating that people who scam/gank/bump in EvE shouldn't be allowed to do so. In fact I enjoy it being a possibility. But I am allowed within the confines of human interaction to label such people who do so as those who engage in actions designed towards benefiting themselves at another's expense without concern for their desired way to play the game.
Considering that we all have the right to play the game how we wish, those who enact their right to impede my desired play style are liable to be thought of as people who perform actions solely for their own benefit at the expense of others regardless of their desired way to play the game. |

Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
631
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 02:00:00 -
[210] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Except the asteroid is not controlled on the other end by a sentient being investing it's time. Who cares how the asteroid is controlled? It's not relevant, other than that asteroid is a resource for another miner. If you mine it first, it's no longer available for anyone else to mine. Are you a bad person for stealing that resource and limiting another miners opportunity? Obviously not.
To your earlier post, if a ganker forced you to also gank, then that would be forcing their play on you.
That's not what they do.
If you want to mine, no one can stop you.
If a ganker wants to gank no one can stop them.
At some point, those 2 different ways to play may intersect. One or both (if highsec) will lose a ship.
Then both go get new ships and continue their play style.
No problem. No stopping each other from playing the game and no forcing their play style onto the other person. The miner is still free to mine and the ganker is still free to gank. Both choices have consequences.
The miner may lose their ship and, in highsec the ganker will lose their ship.
But that's part of the game. Rinse and repeat. Everyone doing what they want in a completely fictional environment. eve-bazaar - Discount prices on ships and PLEX. Real savings to drive your ISK further. |

Kais Klip
State Protectorate Caldari State
17
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 02:00:00 -
[211] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Kais Klip wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:Scipio Artelius wrote:
In a single shard sandbox game, what is wrong is expecting that you have the right to play the way you want, but others don't have that same right.
This statement sums it up nicely. It's wrong for people to expect that they have the right to play the way they want, but others don't have that right. So since I have the same right to play the game in a manner where all I want to do all day is mine in high security, then since it's how I want to play EVE since it's a valid way to play the game, that people who wish to enforce their way to play upon me by attacking and blowing me up are wrong.Thanks for clearing it up for everyone with your exact quote. O wait! Except for you it only applies to how you want to play and not how others do. NVM But to them, and the system as a whole blowing you up is no different than you mining an asteroid, a finite resource, thus taking the opportunity away from someone wanting to mine it as much. It's proven economics. I'm saying you are just as bad as they are, and given that you consider yourself good, the best thing to do is discard the whole terminology altogether since it is perspective, as demonstrated. Now good or bad might exist, I might be the colourblind man claiming the Green Apple is red, but if you find yourself in a room with armed colourblind men and they say the Green Apple is red... Oh for **** sake, who took the apple? Except the asteroid is not controlled on the other end by a sentient being investing it's time.
I'm not saying you're hurting the asteroids feelings. Rather;
1)They shoot you. 2)You lose stuff. 3)You are upset.
You are upset because you lose stuff, be it time or ISK, not because another human being raised a hand against you (right?).
When you mine, asteroid goes from full to empty.
Therefore, if I was planning on mining it, but turn up all dressed an it's gone:
2)I lose stuff. 3)I get upset.
The only difference is that I don't care as much about the asteroid as you do about your ship; I lose, but I laugh and play on. Whether it is because there are plenty of more asteroids (are there not plenty more ships?) or because the particular way you mined it was funny doesn't matter.
Do you see?
Now this crumbles if you are a pacifist and are disturbed by the very act of violence, in which case eve would not bring you much fun. |

Divine Entervention
The Advent of Faith Against ALL Anomalies
120
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 02:02:00 -
[212] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:Upon making an offensive request to me for my personal information, the protection of my privacy ranks higher than your obsessive focus on my physical appearance IRL. GǪexcept that none of those actually happened. That's just you making a massive strawman argument to cover for the fact that you knew where his argument was going and knew that it was going to end up in a place that would further expose your prejudice. Quote:Because of this demonstration, I have the right to label you as someone who's opinions and irrational desires of me should be regarded as such and ignored. Sure, you have the right to do that, but it would be no less prejudiced or hypocritical than the other arbitrary declarations of character you've made. And again, just because you choose to play the victim doesn't mean that his initial argument was incorrect GÇö only that you couldn't respond to it.
I never considered what his argument was. He made no implication to me that he wished to have an argument. All he did was ask me a personal question regarding my IRL appearance. I explained to him how I felt and why I would not oblige his request.
I don't care what his argument was going to be. He can correlate it to another similar comparison if he wishes, but I'm not going to placate his request regarding my real personal appearance. It's a selfish request of his and if he wishes to present to me an argument, he can do so in another fashion without bringing in my personal appearance.
|

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
280
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 02:03:00 -
[213] - Quote
All you have done, is insult, harass and troll the entire board at large. Time and time again.
Your attempt to turn the benign query of whether you look in persin as does your avatar into a point of "offensiveness" is laughable.
Furthermore, the question is instrumental and central to the discussion at hand.
I look almost exactly like my avatar, minus the tattoos. I have nothing to hide in that fact, nor do I take any offence in being asked ifI do.
You, however, are presenting yourself, in your avatar, as someone you are infact not. Ergo, you are breaking your own espoused moral code, in that you are PRETENDING here to be someone you are not. Your avatar is proof positive of that. You have as much as said you do not look like it.
I cam therefore judge you, by observation, with cause, to be a person who pretends to be someone of an appearance you do not actually have. This I do according to your own moral code, perfectly justifiably, because if you would impinge it on others, I willnalso hold you personally responsible for fulfilling every single preceot of that morality.
Whether you are offended by a question, is not my concern, nor responsibility. I am not responsible for your own autonomous reaction to a neutral question which neither implictly or explicitly warranted offense. That is between you and your "feels", not with me or the query.
Nonetheless, your reaction is proof positive that you are someone who is prepared to present themselves online as soneome they are infact not offline, in person. You fell into your own absolutist morality, as is always the case with moral pontificators. |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20007
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 02:06:00 -
[214] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:You are justifying robbing No. That's just you confusing what goes on inside your head with what is actually going on in the real world. Please try again. This goes for your equally incorrect and baseless second sentence as well.
Quote:I am allowed within the confines of human interaction to label such people who do so as those who engage in actions designed towards benefiting themselves at another's expense without concern for their desired way to play the game. GǪand by taking that liberty, you are being prejudiced.
Quote:Considering that we all have the right to play the game how we wish We don't. That's where your entire line of reasoning breaks down. You have exactly two right: 1) to log in, and 2) to cancel your subscription at any time. Everything beyond that is something you have to carve out of the game environment in competition with (and against the will of) other players.
A GÇ£sandboxGÇ¥ does not mean you will succeed at anything you want to attempt; it means you can attempt anything you want to succeed at. It also does not mean that you can do what you want; it means everyone can try do what they want, which will include them doing things (to you) that you don't want them to do. In both cases, you have to force your will onto other players, the same way all the other players must, and will, impose their will onto you.
Meanwhile, you're trying to impose your irrational and incoherent GÇ£moralityGÇ¥ and prejudice on everyone around you while at the same time deploring the practice of others doing the exact same thing. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |

Divine Entervention
The Advent of Faith Against ALL Anomalies
120
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 02:08:00 -
[215] - Quote
Kais Klip wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:Kais Klip wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:Scipio Artelius wrote:
In a single shard sandbox game, what is wrong is expecting that you have the right to play the way you want, but others don't have that same right.
This statement sums it up nicely. It's wrong for people to expect that they have the right to play the way they want, but others don't have that right. So since I have the same right to play the game in a manner where all I want to do all day is mine in high security, then since it's how I want to play EVE since it's a valid way to play the game, that people who wish to enforce their way to play upon me by attacking and blowing me up are wrong.Thanks for clearing it up for everyone with your exact quote. O wait! Except for you it only applies to how you want to play and not how others do. NVM But to them, and the system as a whole blowing you up is no different than you mining an asteroid, a finite resource, thus taking the opportunity away from someone wanting to mine it as much. It's proven economics. I'm saying you are just as bad as they are, and given that you consider yourself good, the best thing to do is discard the whole terminology altogether since it is perspective, as demonstrated. Now good or bad might exist, I might be the colourblind man claiming the Green Apple is red, but if you find yourself in a room with armed colourblind men and they say the Green Apple is red... Oh for **** sake, who took the apple? Except the asteroid is not controlled on the other end by a sentient being investing it's time. I'm not saying you're hurting the asteroids feelings. Rather; 1)They shoot you. 2)You lose stuff. 3)You are upset. You are upset because you lose stuff, be it time or ISK, not because another human being raised a hand against you (right?). When you mine, asteroid goes from full to empty. Therefore, if I was planning on mining it, but turn up all dressed an it's gone: 2)I lose stuff. 3)I get upset. The only difference is that I don't care as much about the asteroid as you do about your ship; I lose, but I laugh and play on. Whether it is because there are plenty of more asteroids (are there not plenty more ships?) or because the particular way you mined it was funny doesn't matter. Do you see? Now this crumbles if you are a pacifist and are disturbed by the very act of violence, in which case eve would not bring you much fun.
Are you implying that I get upset when I lose items? Please link where I've ever expressed a personal dissatisfaction related to dying or losing items in EvE.
If you feel that I get upset upon the loss of material possession, well I'm sorry but you're wrong. I place my value on the interaction between people, not on possessions. |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20007
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 02:11:00 -
[216] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Are you implying that I get upset when I lose items? No, he's not. He's implying that your notion of being able to play the game without enforcing your will to play upon other players is inherently impossible. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |

Kais Klip
State Protectorate Caldari State
18
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 02:11:00 -
[217] - Quote
While I may agree with one of you not a few posts back we just managed to lift off and discuss an idea rather than an event or worse, a person.
Why don't we continue discussing the idea at hand as two schools of divergent thought. Right or wrong, there will always be disagreements and the eventual ignorance of reason by one party, at which point fights or wars happen so one mouth can shut the other one up. But we don't want that, because both sides have the nuclear detterant that is thread lock.
So both of you tell your grandkids the other guy was the evil one, and discuss the idea of morality and it's existence or rather, relevance, in eve. |

Spaja Saist
The Scope Gallente Federation
7
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 02:15:00 -
[218] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Divine Entervention, did you at any point consider that the following actions your part where offensive to me:
A) Refusal to answer my neutral query whether you look in person, as does your avatar ingame B) Adding further insult ontop of that by throwing aspersions and wild speculations at me for asking a neutral query.
These where both extremely offensive to me.
My post you quote is not meant to ellicit any kind of response. You mean very little to me, as I perceive you, as you turned out to be. A very small and insignificant person who goes around telling other people they are bad, without analysing his own behavior first or applying the same standards to himself.
Those are my observations of you. Those are my conclusions of you. Those are my judgements of you. They are a result of your own behavior. You are responsible for those. I HOLD you responsible for them.
Just as you presume to judge others here, I do so onto you, and have found you a pitiable person and very wanting in moral fortitude or direction.
And now you whine that I am a sociopath/sadist for doing exactly the same thing you have? That is ironic, and ultimately reinforces and confirms my position in regards to you.
I have not done here, or said, anything that you have yourself already not done. To me, others and the entire board at large. How do you like your own medicine? Is it bitter? Does it stick in your craw?
The difference between us, and what makes me better than you, is that I can see and recognise that, whereas you lack the introspection, honesty, moral integrity and ultimately the ackonwledgement of responsibility to do so.
You show me the type of person you are by how you talk to people on the forums. Judging by this post and others you've made I can say with a 100% certainty that you're an *******. You think you are better than everyone else and you derive joy from putting other people down. If CCP had any sense they would actually moderate their forums. Everytime I've tried to get someone to play this game all they have to do is spend 30 minutes perusing the forums and they say no thanks. Why CCP will not enforce a level of civility is beyond me. As I've said before I would never judge someone for what they do in game even if I find some of the scams personally pathetic. I realize that is the nature of this game and trying to change it would be a waste of time. However I will judge the content of your character by how you respond to people on the forums. You may be tired of people coming to the forums to complain but what good comes from the same gang of people jumping on and insulting people or telling them to play WOW. It just makes people think the game is full of sociopaths. |

Kais Klip
State Protectorate Caldari State
18
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 02:17:00 -
[219] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:
If you feel that I get upset upon the loss of material possession, well I'm sorry but you're wrong. I place my value on the interaction between people, not on possessions.
So what exactly are you perturbed about, the very act of violence against another human being, the loss of possessions and thus the loss of well being coming from an act of violence against another human being, or an act which is inherently carried out to upset the other player more than it entertains the perpetrator (something so selfless that I do not believe to be possible)?
I'm not arguing against you, I'm arguing against the ideas you hold.
And Spaja, Salvos did attempt to be reasonable and cordial at first, if anything he is just an impatient man, eh :) |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20007
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 02:19:00 -
[220] - Quote
Spaja Saist wrote:Why CCP will not enforce a level of civility is beyond me. But then you wouldn't be allowed to postGǪ GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |

Divine Entervention
The Advent of Faith Against ALL Anomalies
120
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 02:23:00 -
[221] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:All you have done, is insult, harass and troll the entire board at large. Time and time again.
I have not done one thing into you, that you have not done to countless others here on your ceaseless trolling of these boards, no doubt with alts as well.
You judge others on their conduct, now its time dor you to be judged on yours. And all the better, according ro your own bogus morality.
Your attempt to turn the benign query of whether you look in person as does your avatar into a point of "offensiveness" is laughable.
Furthermore, the question is instrumental and central to the discussion at hand.
I look almost exactly like my avatar, minus the tattoos. I have nothing to hide in that fact, nor do I take any offence in being asked ifI do.
You, however, are presenting yourself, in your avatar, as someone you are infact not. Ergo, you are breaking your own espoused moral code, in that you are PRETENDING here to be someone you are not. Your avatar is proof positive of that. You have as much as said you do not look like it.
I cam therefore judge you, by observation, with cause, to be a person who pretends to be someone of an appearance you do not actually have. This I do according to your own moral code, perfectly justifiably, because if you would impinge it on others, I willnalso hold you personally responsible for fulfilling every single preceot of that morality.
Whether you are offended by a question, is not my concern, nor responsibility. I am not responsible for your own autonomous reaction to a neutral question which neither implictly or explicitly warranted offense. That is between you and your "feels", not with me or the query.
Nonetheless, your reaction is proof positive that you are someone who is prepared to present themselves online as soneome they are infact not offline, in person. You fell into your own absolutist morality trap, by failing to live up to your own high demands on others, as is always the case with moral pontificators.
You do not practice what you preach. A charlatan, a liar, a hypocrite.
If you feel as though I am who you describe, then why you consider wasting time with me is astoundingly incomprehensible.
I simply stated my opinion regarding the actions of others. No where have I stated that you cannot make your judgments of me however you wish. I've simply stated that I do not have to take the opinions of people who's actions I consider to be morally bankrupt as an opinion I should offer credence to.
Your becoming upset with my stance could say many things about you. Why do you care about my opinion regarding human interaction? What is it about yourself that feels my stating an opinion you disagree with is such a threat to your self that you must interject yourself into stating your stance and insulting me.
Are you your body, or are you your mind? I can close my eyes and imagine what life would be like if I had no body. If I could be able to be my sense of self floating around invisible or if I even looked like a slug and crawled around on the ground eating grass.
What I cannot do though, is close my eyes and imagine what I would be if I were no mind and just a body. I cannot comprehend what it would be like to not exist.
I could look like anything or anyone, yet if I were still this ability to think and comprehend, I would still be this collective consciousness that I am.
Our interaction with each other has no bearing on our physical appearance. Everything that takes place with our communication is because it was chosen to take place by our minds.
I guess it's cool that you think since you're willing to model your in game avatar after yourself, that supposedly it's suppose to mean you're proud of yourself or something. Whatever, it's no matter to me. I don't care what you look like, and you shouldn't care what I do either.
What's important is how we choose to interact with each other.
And because I chose to disregarded your selfish invasive request into my private life to propagate your stance in an internet argument, I reach a conclusion that your emotional over reaction to such a disrespectful request is irrational. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
282
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 02:25:00 -
[222] - Quote
Kais Klip wrote:So both of you tell your grandkids the other guy was the evil one, and discuss the idea of morality and it's existence or rather, relevance, in eve.
Well said.
We are creatures subject to the moral context and parameters of our environment, whether theynare aligned with our personal morality or not.
Though it is the same person whom plays the game, as the person who acts outside the game, the moral frame of reference and context within the game is not equal to or the same as that of the world outside it.
The person remains the same, but the context and frame of reference of morality within the game is NOT the same as without it.
Why? Because the games environment is fictional. It is virtual. It is an abstraction with no substance, only derived meaning. A dog or chimpanzee placed before a keyboard will not be able to comprehend what EVE is. It cannot smell it, it cannot touch it, it cannot eat it.
To illustrate the importance of understanding that morality is integrallyndefined by a frame of referende, consider the following. If I travel to a foreign country with a culture vsstly different to my own, I can not expect my personal morality to automatically supercede that of that culture. I will be expected, even though their morality is not my own, to conduct myself in their culture, in their world, as they do.
The same applies when you enter the world of EVE.
There are no moral absolutes. This because there is no absolute frame of reference to define and distinguish it. What is right to one man, is wrong to another, and vice versa. What is right in one place, is wrong in another, and vice versa.
The same applies when you enter the frame of refernce that is EVE.
@ Divine: Its too late. I already see what you truly are. A hack, a dilettante, a hypocrite. You lack the conviction of your beliefs. You do not practice what you preach. You do not have the wisdom and introspection to realise that morality is somethinf youninflict upon yourself first, not into others.
It is not a means to control or convict the conduct or beliefs of others, it is a means ro define yourself and how YOU choose to live, not how others hould. To not understand this, is juvenile. It is infact a stage in established psychological theories of moral development at which you seem to be at an impasse to overcome. |

Divine Entervention
The Advent of Faith Against ALL Anomalies
120
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 02:28:00 -
[223] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:You are justifying robbing No. That's just you confusing what goes on inside your head with what is actually going on in the real world. Please try again. This goes for your equally incorrect and baseless second sentence as well. Quote:I am allowed within the confines of human interaction to label such people who do so as those who engage in actions designed towards benefiting themselves at another's expense without concern for their desired way to play the game. GǪand by taking that liberty, you are being prejudiced. Quote:Considering that we all have the right to play the game how we wish We don't. That's where your entire line of reasoning breaks down. You have exactly two right: 1) to log in, and 2) to cancel your subscription at any time. Everything beyond that is something you have to carve out of the game environment in competition with (and against the will of) other players. A GǣsandboxGǥ does not mean you will succeed at anything you want to attempt; it means you can attempt anything you want to succeed at. It also does not mean that you can do what you want; it means everyone can try do what they want, which will include them doing things (to you) that you don't want them to do. In both cases, you have to force your will onto other players, the same way all the other players must, and will, impose their will onto you. Meanwhile, you're trying to impose your irrational and incoherent GǣmoralityGǥ and prejudice on everyone around you while at the same time deploring the practice of others doing the exact same thing.
And it also means that when someone chooses to perform an action such as stealing from me, I am allowed to classify them as a person who performs the action of stealing and treat them as such. |

Divine Entervention
The Advent of Faith Against ALL Anomalies
120
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 02:31:00 -
[224] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote: If I travel to a foreign country with a culture vsstly different to my own, I can not expect my personal morality to automatically supercede that of that culture. I will be expected, even though their morality is not my own, to conduct myself in their culture, in their world, as they do.
The same applies when you enter the world of EVE.
There are no moral absolutes. This because there is no absolute frame of reference to define and distinguish it. What is right to one man, is wrong to another, and vice versa. What is right in one place, is wrong in another, and vice versa.
The same applies when you enter the frame of refernce that is EVE.
Exactly. So because you get to believe that your action of stealing is right, I get to believe that it is wrong.
|

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20008
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 02:31:00 -
[225] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:And it also means that when someone chooses to perform an action such as stealing from me, I am allowed to classify them as a person who performs the action of stealing and treat them as such. GǪwhich, since it happens within a game, isn't enough to let you say anything about the character or morality of the real-life person unless you filter it through a huge layer of unfounded assumptions, aka prejudices.
And anyway, no, a GÇ£sandboxGÇ¥ does not actually mean that.
Quote:Exactly. So because you get to believe that your action of stealing is right, I get to believe that it is wrong. The difference is that in the context, your belief is wrong. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |

Spaja Saist
The Scope Gallente Federation
7
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 02:31:00 -
[226] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Spaja Saist wrote:Why CCP will not enforce a level of civility is beyond me. But then you wouldn't be allowed to postGǪ
You're thousands of insult posts have lost you the right to be treated with respect as far as I'm concerned. You are the problem that needs to be corrected. How you haven't been permanently banned is beyond me. If I was into wearing tinfoil hats I'd suspect you're a CCP employee. |

Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
631
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 02:34:00 -
[227] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:O wait! Except for you it only applies to how you want to play and not how others do. NVM Sorry what?
Where have we ever interacted in game and I forced you to play the way I want?
What evidence are you basing your conclusion on?
I am all for everyone being able to play how they want and for everyone to accept the consequences of those choices.
The basic argument about the immorality of others boils down to you wanting to make a choice about how you play, but not taking personal responsibility for the consequence of that choice.
eve-bazaar - Discount prices on ships and PLEX. Real savings to drive your ISK further. |

Divine Entervention
The Advent of Faith Against ALL Anomalies
120
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 02:35:00 -
[228] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:And it also means that when someone chooses to perform an action such as stealing from me, I am allowed to classify them as a person who performs the action of stealing and treat them as such. GǪwhich, since it happens within a game, isn't enough to let you say anything about the character or morality of the real-life person unless you filter it through a huge layer of unfounded assumptions, aka prejudices. And anyway, no, a GǣsandboxGǥ does not actually mean that.
Incorrect, because it is the person outside of the game making the choice for it to happen within the game. It lets me say that the person is someone who is willing to steal from others convincing the self that ethical standards do not apply to himself in a particular context, by separating moral reactions from inhumane conduct by disabling the mechanism of self-condemnation. |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20009
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 02:36:00 -
[229] - Quote
Spaja Saist wrote:You're thousands of insult posts No, I am not thousands of posts GÇö insults or otherwise.
Quote:You are the problem that needs to be corrected. How you haven't been permanently banned is beyond me. Oh, that's simple: I tend to stay away from personal abuse, wishing harm on others, trolling, emotional ranting, and off-topic posting. Instead, I prefer to rely on facts, logic, and argumentation, which makes it hard to build a solid case for my being banned.
I understand that trolls get mightily upset when their standard tactics fail and their lack of reasoning is exposed, and descend into frothing rage that get them shut down, but that's really their problem, not mine. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |

Divine Entervention
The Advent of Faith Against ALL Anomalies
120
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 02:39:00 -
[230] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:O wait! Except for you it only applies to how you want to play and not how others do. NVM Sorry what? Where have we ever interacted in game and I forced you to play the way I want? What evidence are you basing your conclusion on? I am all for everyone being able to play how they want and for everyone to accept the consequences of those choices. The basic argument about the immorality of others boils down to you wanting to make a choice about how you play, but not taking personal responsibility for the consequence of that choice.
Sorry I should have reworded it, taking the "you" and replacing it with "others" and "they".
Careless mistake. |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20009
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 02:39:00 -
[231] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Incorrect, because it is the person outside of the game making the choice for it to happen within the game. GǪand since all of that happens within the magic circle, it has little to no bearing on the character of the real-life person. What's GǣrightGǥ and GǣwrongGǥ in one context does not carry over into a completely separate context.
Or are you saying that people who bluff in pokers are bad people and compulsive liars? Are you saying that a kid playing a cop in a game of cops and robbers is necessarily a good person? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |

Divine Entervention
The Advent of Faith Against ALL Anomalies
120
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 02:40:00 -
[232] - Quote
Tippia wrote:
I understand that trolls get mightily upset when their standard tactics fail and their lack of reasoning is exposed, and descend into frothing rage that get them shut down, but that's really their problem, not mine.
This is exactly the same sentiment I feel regarding people who get upset when they cannot comprehend the reality that we're all real people playing a real game in reality, interacting with other real people, really. |

Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1032
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 02:40:00 -
[233] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:O wait! Except for you it only applies to how you want to play and not how others do. NVM Sorry what? Where have we ever interacted in game and I forced you to play the way I want? What evidence are you basing your conclusion on? I am all for everyone being able to play how they want and for everyone to accept the consequences of those choices. The basic argument about the immorality of others boils down to you wanting to make a choice about how you play, but not taking personal responsibility for the consequence of that choice. There aren't any natural consequences for most actions that get people blown up. If someone overloads a freighter it doesn't just explode, someone has to shoot it to make that happen, as such it's not consequence, but other players actively enforcing their goals over that of the freighter pilot.
I'm a neutral in this argument. Don't mind me.
|

Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
631
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 02:43:00 -
[234] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Sorry I should have reworded it, taking the "you" and replacing it with "others" and "they".
Careless mistake.
This has become tiresome over the last couple of weeks. When this thread is inevitably locked, hopefully action is finally taken to prevent it occurring again, at least for the near future. Unfortunately none of us have shown the maturity to step out and stop feeding the same issue over and over and over.
Most of us here have been trying to argue rationally with an irrational and careless opponent, which just makes us all irrational. eve-bazaar - Discount prices on ships and PLEX. Real savings to drive your ISK further. |

Spaja Saist
The Scope Gallente Federation
7
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 02:43:00 -
[235] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Spaja Saist wrote:You're thousands of insult posts No, I am not thousands of posts GÇö insults or otherwise. Quote:You are the problem that needs to be corrected. How you haven't been permanently banned is beyond me. Oh, that's simple: I tend to stay away from personal abuse, wishing harm on others, trolling, emotional ranting, and off-topic posting. Instead, I prefer to rely on facts, logic, and argumentation, which makes it hard to build a solid case for my being banned. I understand that trolls get mightily upset when their standard tactics fail and their lack of reasoning is exposed, and descend into frothing rage that get them shut down, but that's really their problem, not mine.
Everything you do is trolling. Your posts are the very definition of trolling. |

Divine Entervention
The Advent of Faith Against ALL Anomalies
120
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 02:43:00 -
[236] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:Incorrect, because it is the person outside of the game making the choice for it to happen within the game. GǪand since all of that happens within the magic circle, it has little to no bearing on the character of the real-life person. What's GǣrightGǥ and GǣwrongGǥ in one context does not carry over into a completely separate context. Or are you saying that people who bluff in pokers are bad people and compulsive liars? Are you saying that a kid playing a cop in a game of cops and robbers is necessarily a good person?
That's cool. Whatever made up reasonings or expressions you need to use to help you convince yourself that ethical standards do not apply to oneself in a particular context, by separating moral reactions from inhumane conduct by disabling the mechanism of self-condemnation. |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20009
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 02:43:00 -
[237] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:This is exactly the same sentiment I feel regarding people who get upset when they cannot comprehend the reality that we're all real people playing a real game in reality, interacting with other real people, really. Then again, that never really happens. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |

Johan Civire
The Lyran Empire
847
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 02:44:00 -
[238] - Quote
Because its a game move on. Go play kitty online if you don`t like it. Why is this why is that why is a banana crooked? Why is there a sun? And we can continue like this forever.
Its a part of the game mechanic the easy one. but still in real life people just hate other people but the can not express them selfs. So in game its the easy way to do. Why do you think there is wars in the first place on earth? because we hate or selfs. A part that keeps us evolving..
Yah i know sounds bad. |

Spaja Saist
The Scope Gallente Federation
7
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 02:44:00 -
[239] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:Sorry I should have reworded it, taking the "you" and replacing it with "others" and "they".
Careless mistake. This has become tiresome over the last couple of weeks. When this thread is inevitably locked, hopefully action is finally taken to prevent it occurring again, at least for the near future. Unfortunately none of us have shown the maturity to step out and stop feeding the same issue over and over and over. Most of us here have been trying to argue rationally with an irrational and careless opponent, which just makes us all irrational.
The moderators are either asleep or watching and eating popcorn. |

Divine Entervention
The Advent of Faith Against ALL Anomalies
120
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 02:45:00 -
[240] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:Sorry I should have reworded it, taking the "you" and replacing it with "others" and "they".
Careless mistake. This has become tiresome over the last couple of weeks. When this thread is inevitably locked, hopefully action is finally taken to prevent it occurring again, at least for the near future. Unfortunately none of us have shown the maturity to step out and stop feeding the same issue over and over and over. Most of us here have been trying to argue rationally with an irrational and careless opponent, which just makes us all irrational.
Yea, but I don't think they'll get banned even though they continuously flame and insult us for having a different opinion. I mean it's cool that they feel differently, but I would o so hope that they would come to the argument with an angle other than trying to insult the individuals speaking their mind. |

Kais Klip
State Protectorate Caldari State
18
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 02:48:00 -
[241] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Tippia wrote:
I understand that trolls get mightily upset when their standard tactics fail and their lack of reasoning is exposed, and descend into frothing rage that get them shut down, but that's really their problem, not mine.
This is exactly the same sentiment I feel regarding people who get upset when they cannot comprehend the reality that we're all real people playing a real game in reality, interacting with other real people, really.
But the costs aren't real. Or rather, not nearly as real as the benefits; who are we to deny an exhilaration equalling a kid opening his birthday present (ship kill) at the cost of a negative emotion no more than that of a stubbing of a toe (ship loss), quickly forgotten along with other mundane things of the day? If one turns and does onto the other as was done onto him; both parties have a net benefit. Yes, it may be wrong in your mind, but what's the problem if all parties profit? |

Divine Entervention
The Advent of Faith Against ALL Anomalies
120
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 02:52:00 -
[242] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:This is exactly the same sentiment I feel regarding people who get upset when they cannot comprehend the reality that we're all real people playing a real game in reality, interacting with other real people, really. Then again, that never really happens. Quote:That's cool. Whatever made up reasonings or expressions you need to use to help you convince yourself that ethical standards do not apply to oneself in a particular context, by separating moral reactions from inhumane conduct by disabling the mechanism of self-condemnation. Again, it's not really made-up so much as being capable of separating game from reality GÇö it's a very healthy thing and the inability to do so is something that is a reoccurring characteristic of many mental and cognitive pathologies. For instance, do you believe that someone who bluffs in poker is a bad person and a compulsive liar? Do you believe that a kid who plays a cop in cops and robbers must necessarily be a good person? Or is it just that both are simply legal and expected moves within their respective games?
Except EVE is a different game than poker and cops and robbers. How I personally feel about poker players and cops and robbers elementary school kids has zero bearing on whether or not I feel someone who lies and steals from others in EvE makes them subject to classification of their morality.
EvE is a completely different game than cops and robbers and poker.
If EvE were poker, it would be called Poker.
If EvE were Cops and Robbers, it would be called Cops and Robbers.
I will not entertain the idea that Poker and Cops and Robbers is EVE. Because it's completely wrong.
You're allowed to want to talk about whatever you wish, but having the right to do so doesn't mean you're not wrong. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
283
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 02:53:00 -
[243] - Quote
You made comments to Tippia hoping that she suffers IRL misfortune and violence.
Your post below was the most sociopathic and sick thing I have ever read on this board:
Spaja Saist wrote:What a lying piece of **** you are. All you ever do is insult people and act like you are better than everyone else. You are a prime example of what the OP is talking about. I'm sure you're a useless piece of **** in real life as well. Anyone that derives as much joy as you do in putting others down is a waste of air and doesn't deserve to live. Hopefully you will get ganked in real life then we won't have to listen to your stupid bullshit.
If I was you, I would seriously step away from the keyboard and go take a walk outside before you post again. Your conduct is WAY outside even lax consideration of civility and proper behavior towards others.
Divine Entervention wrote:Exactly. So because you get to believe that your action of stealing is right, I get to believe that it is wrong.
Yes, and by the same mechanism we can also believe you to be wrong in all of this.
And justifiably so, let me demonstrate:
You have shown yourself to be a person who is capable of and willing to present themselves as someone they are not, in that your avatar does not accurately portray who you are in person.
Yet at the same time, you posit to claim that anyone who acts or is a certain way in-game, is also that way outside of the game.
But because you are a person who him/herself does not portray themselves in-game, as you are OUTSIDE of it, your entire rational and argument is destroyed by this same line of reasoning.
You don't even look like yourself in the game, and you made that choice consciously. Therefore you are not actually yourself in the game, are you, not even a graphic representation of yourself.
Therefore as it can be objectively and without reservation be said that you are NOT ingame, what you are without it, your entire argumentation that everyone ELSE is exactly ingame as they are without it, falters and is quashed by its own weight.
You failed. Sorry, kid. |

Muestereate
Minions LLC
193
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 02:54:00 -
[244] - Quote
Many abused people acting out their life end game |

Kais Klip
State Protectorate Caldari State
18
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 02:54:00 -
[245] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Tippia wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:This is exactly the same sentiment I feel regarding people who get upset when they cannot comprehend the reality that we're all real people playing a real game in reality, interacting with other real people, really. Then again, that never really happens. Quote:That's cool. Whatever made up reasonings or expressions you need to use to help you convince yourself that ethical standards do not apply to oneself in a particular context, by separating moral reactions from inhumane conduct by disabling the mechanism of self-condemnation. Again, it's not really made-up so much as being capable of separating game from reality GÇö it's a very healthy thing and the inability to do so is something that is a reoccurring characteristic of many mental and cognitive pathologies. For instance, do you believe that someone who bluffs in poker is a bad person and a compulsive liar? Do you believe that a kid who plays a cop in cops and robbers must necessarily be a good person? Or is it just that both are simply legal and expected moves within their respective games? Except EVE is a different game than poker and cops and robbers. How I personally feel about poker players and cops and robbers elementary school kids has zero bearing on whether or not I feel someone who lies and steals from others in EvE makes them subject to classification of their morality. EvE is a completely different game than cops and robbers and poker. If EvE were poker, it would be called Poker. If EvE were Cops and Robbers, it would be called Cops and Robbers. I will not entertain the idea that Poker and Cops and Robbers is EVE. Because it's completely wrong. You're allowed to want to talk about whatever you wish, but having the right to do so doesn't mean you're not wrong.
I don't see sense in that; in eve you are encouraged to commit 'immoral' acts, a la bluffing in poker. Why isn't it acceptable therefore to use one as a novel approach to discuss the other?
|

Divine Entervention
The Advent of Faith Against ALL Anomalies
120
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 02:54:00 -
[246] - Quote
Kais Klip wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:Tippia wrote:
I understand that trolls get mightily upset when their standard tactics fail and their lack of reasoning is exposed, and descend into frothing rage that get them shut down, but that's really their problem, not mine.
This is exactly the same sentiment I feel regarding people who get upset when they cannot comprehend the reality that we're all real people playing a real game in reality, interacting with other real people, really. But the costs aren't real. Or rather, not nearly as real as the benefits; who are we to deny an exhilaration equalling a kid opening his birthday present (ship kill) at the cost of a negative emotion no more than that of a stubbing of a toe (ship loss), quickly forgotten along with other mundane things of the day? If one turns and does onto the other as was done onto him; both parties have a net benefit. Yes, it may be wrong in your mind, but what's the problem if all parties profit?
I don't recall my ever having said you should not be allowed to open your birthday present, or kill any ship you want to. |

Kais Klip
State Protectorate Caldari State
18
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 02:58:00 -
[247] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Kais Klip wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:Tippia wrote:
I understand that trolls get mightily upset when their standard tactics fail and their lack of reasoning is exposed, and descend into frothing rage that get them shut down, but that's really their problem, not mine.
This is exactly the same sentiment I feel regarding people who get upset when they cannot comprehend the reality that we're all real people playing a real game in reality, interacting with other real people, really. But the costs aren't real. Or rather, not nearly as real as the benefits; who are we to deny an exhilaration equalling a kid opening his birthday present (ship kill) at the cost of a negative emotion no more than that of a stubbing of a toe (ship loss), quickly forgotten along with other mundane things of the day? If one turns and does onto the other as was done onto him; both parties have a net benefit. Yes, it may be wrong in your mind, but what's the problem if all parties profit? I don't recall my ever having said you should not be allowed to open your birthday present, or kill any ship you want to.
Were you not upset at the idea of people controlling Internet ships and destroying the internet ships controlled by other people?
|

PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
1138
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 02:59:00 -
[248] - Quote
If I foreclose someone's hotel in Monopoly, am I a bad person? |

KwaLevu
PH0ENIX COMPANY Cult of War
13
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 02:59:00 -
[249] - Quote
Quote:EVE is a dark and harsh world, you're supposed to feel a bit worried and slightly angry when you log in, you're not supposed to feel like you're logging in to a happy, happy, fluffy, fluffy lala land filled with fun and adventures, that's what hello kitty online is for.
I got that from an old post in the old evo forums i think its from ccp wrangler , one of the ccp devs might be able to confirm it but i link that to everyone who gets ganked.
hope it helps the op |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20010
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 03:02:00 -
[250] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Except EVE is a different game than poker and cops and robbers. Doesn't matter. They're all games. They all have rules about what you can and can't do within the context of that game. They all have rules about how you win or lose. They are all, for the lack of a better term, GÇ£PvPGÇ¥.
Someone blowing up your ship in EVE has the real-world-moral equivalence of someone tagging you in cops and robbers. Someone scamming you in EVE has the real-world-moral equivalence of someone bluffing you in poker. I.e. none. Everyone is simply playing the game as intended. You cannot judge anyone's character in real life based on what they do in game because there is no connection between the two: what's allowed and acceptable in one is not allowed in the other.
All three games revolve around shooting and tricking and robbing each other. None of it means that the people playing these games are murderers, liars or thieves in real life. Transposing one into the other necessitates passing through a massively thick layer of unproven assumptions about the connection between (legal, expected, morally neutral) in-game behaviour and (illegal, unexpected, and immoral) out-of-game behaviour that instantly turns any such characterisation into unadulterated prejudice.
Quote:I will not entertain the idea that Poker and Cops and Robbers is EVE. Because it's completely wrong. Good news, then: no-one has ever put forward that idea. That's just something you've made up in your head. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |

Divine Entervention
The Advent of Faith Against ALL Anomalies
120
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 03:04:00 -
[251] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:You made comments to Tippia hoping that she suffers IRL misfortune and violence. Your post below was the most sociopathic and sick thing I have ever read on this board: Spaja Saist wrote:What a lying piece of **** you are. All you ever do is insult people and act like you are better than everyone else. You are a prime example of what the OP is talking about. I'm sure you're a useless piece of **** in real life as well. Anyone that derives as much joy as you do in putting others down is a waste of air and doesn't deserve to live.Hopefully you will get ganked in real life then we won't have to listen to your stupid bullshit. If I was you, I would seriously step away from the keyboard and go take a walk outside before you post again. Your conduct is WAY outside even lax consideration of civility and proper behavior towards others. Divine Entervention wrote:Exactly. So because you get to believe that your action of stealing is right, I get to believe that it is wrong.
Yes, and by the same mechanism we can also believe you to be wrong in all of this. And justifiably so, let me demonstrate: You have shown yourself to be a person who is capable of and willing to present themselves as someone they are not, in that your avatar does not accurately portray who you are in person. Yet at the same time, you posit to claim that anyone who acts or is a certain way in-game, is also that way outside of the game. But because you are a person who him/herself does not portray themselves in-game, as you are OUTSIDE of it, your entire rational and argument is destroyed by this same line of reasoning. You don't even look like yourself in the game, and you made that choice consciously. Therefore you are not actually yourself in the game, are you, not even a graphic representation of yourself. Therefore as it can be objectively and without reservation be said that you are NOT ingame, what you are outside it, even by graphic representation which you can and did manually choose to not present yourself, your entire argumentation that everyone ELSE is exactly ingame as they are without it, falters and is quashed by its own weight. You failed. Sorry, kid.
You do not know if I look like the picture in my avatar.
I understand that you're trying to imply that since this "could" be something I am not, and we all get to choose how we represent ourselves, that the conclusions based on that information "could" be false.
I get that. It's a great point.
But on the other hand, back to my statements, someone who has evidenced himself to be one who does an action against another human being at his expense for one's own profitable gain, is evidence to suggest that the person is someone who convinceshis self that ethical standards do not apply to himself in a particular context, by separating moral reactions from inhumane conduct by disabling the mechanism of self-condemnation.
And still, I will not answer if I look like my avatar because it's none of your business. How I look should be of no concern to you.
If it is your concern, then why? Why do you care so much about what I look like? |

Divine Entervention
The Advent of Faith Against ALL Anomalies
120
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 03:06:00 -
[252] - Quote
Kais Klip wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:Kais Klip wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:Tippia wrote:
I understand that trolls get mightily upset when their standard tactics fail and their lack of reasoning is exposed, and descend into frothing rage that get them shut down, but that's really their problem, not mine.
This is exactly the same sentiment I feel regarding people who get upset when they cannot comprehend the reality that we're all real people playing a real game in reality, interacting with other real people, really. But the costs aren't real. Or rather, not nearly as real as the benefits; who are we to deny an exhilaration equalling a kid opening his birthday present (ship kill) at the cost of a negative emotion no more than that of a stubbing of a toe (ship loss), quickly forgotten along with other mundane things of the day? If one turns and does onto the other as was done onto him; both parties have a net benefit. Yes, it may be wrong in your mind, but what's the problem if all parties profit? I don't recall my ever having said you should not be allowed to open your birthday present, or kill any ship you want to. Were you not upset at the idea of people controlling Internet ships and destroying the internet ships controlled by other people?
Upset by it? No. But i will label them as people who are willing to convince themselvesthat ethical standards do not apply to oneself in a particular context, by separating moral reactions from inhumane conduct by disabling the mechanism of self-condemnation. |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20011
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 03:08:00 -
[253] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:But on the other hand, back to my statements, someone who has evidenced himself to be one who does an action against another human being at his expense for one's own profitable gain, is evidence to suggest that the person is someone who convinceshis self that ethical standards do not apply to himself in a particular context, by separating moral reactions from inhumane conduct by disabling the mechanism of self-condemnation. GǪand the problem with trying to apply any kind of moral judgement from that is that within that context, the ethics explicitly don't apply GÇö their inapplicability is the defining characteristic of the context. Not being able to make those distinctions is a serious mental deficiency. It's one you can get you put on heavy-duty medication, that's how bad it is.
Quote:But i will label them as people who are willing to convince themselvesthat ethical standards do not apply to oneself in a particular context, by separating moral reactions from inhumane conduct by disabling the mechanism of self-condemnation. You mean you will label them GÇ£saneGÇ¥. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |

Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1032
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 03:08:00 -
[254] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote:If I foreclose someone's hotel in Monopoly, am I a bad person? Can Eve draw parallels with games that have clear victory conditions? |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20011
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 03:09:00 -
[255] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:If I foreclose someone's hotel in Monopoly, am I a bad person? Can Eve draw parallels with games that have clear victory conditions? Since we're talking about singular acts in EVE that have clear victory conditions, sure. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |

Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1032
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 03:12:00 -
[256] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:If I foreclose someone's hotel in Monopoly, am I a bad person? Can Eve draw parallels with games that have clear victory conditions? Since we're talking about singular acts in EVE that have clear victory conditions, sure. I guess that works in a complete denial of context, though in the case of the subject at hand, I doubt that's a fair consideration. Just my opinion though. |

Divine Entervention
The Advent of Faith Against ALL Anomalies
120
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 03:13:00 -
[257] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:Except EVE is a different game than poker and cops and robbers. Doesn't matter. They're all games. This is the critical distinction you keep missing. They all have rules about what you can and can't do within the context of that game. They all have rules about how you win or lose. They are all, for the lack of a better term, GÇ£PvPGÇ¥. Someone blowing up your ship in EVE has the real-world-moral equivalence of someone tagging you in cops and robbers. Someone scamming you in EVE has the real-world-moral equivalence of someone bluffing you in poker. I.e. none. Everyone is simply playing the game as intended. You cannot judge anyone's character in real life based on what they do in game because there is no connection between the two: what's allowed and acceptable in one is not allowed in the other. All three games revolve around shooting and tricking and robbing each other. None of it means that the people playing these games are murderers, liars or thieves in real life. Transposing one into the other necessitates passing through a massively thick layer of unproven assumptions about the connection between (legal, expected, morally neutral) in-game behaviour and (illegal, unexpected, and immoral) out-of-game behaviour that instantly turns any such characterisation into unadulterated prejudice. Quote:I will not entertain the idea that Poker and Cops and Robbers is EVE. Because it's completely wrong. Good news, then: no-one has ever put forward that idea. That's just something you've made up in your head.
The kids playing kickball in the recess known as eve don't want to play cops and robbers. EvE is a different game than cops and robbers.
In the Casino of "EvE" there are not only poker tables. If the guy steps up to the poker table, he cannot get mad if someone bluffs him. But in the Casino of "EvE", he can choose to play roulette or maybe even the slot machines. That's the great thing about this casino, is there's different amenities. |

Kais Klip
State Protectorate Caldari State
18
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 03:13:00 -
[258] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:
Upset by it? No. But i will label them as people who are willing to convince themselvesthat ethical standards do not apply to oneself in a particular context, by separating moral reactions from inhumane conduct by disabling the mechanism of self-condemnation.
Brilliant, my bad.
^^ not sarcasm
^^ not sarcasm either
Brilliant as long as you convince only your self and don't go preaching, because I disagree with that assertion and will want to preach back :D |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
286
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 03:15:00 -
[259] - Quote
@Divine:
You are missing the point. Whether intentionally or not. I suspect the former as you have shown yourself as dishonest and opportunistic in discourse. You ignore arguments that are not advantageous to your own position. There can be no unilateral and constructive discussion with such a person who deliberately sabotages the pursuit of truth for their own ends.
This is what it boils down to:
You chose to NOT accurately represent yourself ingame, yet you presume to be able to observe absolutely and accurately who other people ARE by the choices they make ingame.
This is an irreconcilable contradiction.
By the same proxy and mechanism of choice as you made use of when you created a simulacra of yourself ingame that is not representative of your actual self, so did everyone else. And by extension from this, even as your true nature cannot be discerned from your avatar, neither can their true personal nature be discerned from their conduct in a game (as a virtual and abstract environment) that has a completely different frame of moral reference (not to mention its complete lack of any physical tangibility). |

Divine Entervention
The Advent of Faith Against ALL Anomalies
120
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 03:17:00 -
[260] - Quote
Kais Klip wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:
Upset by it? No. But i will label them as people who are willing to convince themselvesthat ethical standards do not apply to oneself in a particular context, by separating moral reactions from inhumane conduct by disabling the mechanism of self-condemnation.
Brilliant, my bad. ^^ not sarcasm ^^ not sarcasm either Brilliant as long as you convince only your self and don't go preaching, because I disagree with that assertion and will want to preach back :D
Yea no worries man. You're allowed to feel how you want. Thanks for taking the opportunity to express yourself. I'll keep talking about it though, i hope you understand. EvE is a dark place, and I feel that others deserve to know that there are others who feel passionately about the light. I'll be a lodestar. I'll walk through the shadows in the valley of Mad. |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20011
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 03:18:00 -
[261] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:The kids playing kickball in the recess known as eve don't want to play cops and robbers. EvE is a different game than cops and robbers. Irrelevant. They are all still games; they all have rules about what is and what isn't allowed; they all have rules for how you win or lose; they are all PvP. The moral transposition between them and real life is the same: none whatsoever.
Quote:In the Casino of "EvE" there are not only poker tables. If the guy steps up to the poker table, he cannot get mad if someone bluffs him. But in the Casino of "EvE", he can choose to play roulette or maybe even the slot machines. That's the great thing about this casino, is there's different amenities. GǪbut the funny part is that no matter which one you choose, you can only win by making someone else lose. If you want to win, you have to do it at the expense of someone else. Don't worry, it won't reflect poorly on your moral constitution GÇö those are just the rules of the context.
In every case, playing by the rules is playing by the rules. In every case, the rules allow and actively encourage behaviour that would be considered very GÇ£badGÇ¥ outside of the context. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |

Divine Entervention
The Advent of Faith Against ALL Anomalies
120
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 03:19:00 -
[262] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:You are missing the point. Whether intentionally or not. I suspect the former as you have shown yourself as dishonest and opportunistic in discourse. You ignore arguments that are not advantageous to your own position. There can be no unilateral and constructive discussion with such a person who deliberately sabotages the pursuit of truth for their own ends.
This is what it boils down to:
You chose to NOT accurately represent yourself ingame, yet you presume to be able to observe absolutely and accurately who other people ARE by the choices they make ingame.
This is an irreconcilable contradiction.
By the same proxy and mechanism of choice as you made use of when you created a simulacra of yourself ingame that is not representative of your actual self, so did everyone else. And by extension from this, even as your true nature cannot be discerned from your avatar, neither can their true personal nature be discerned from their conduct in a game (as a virtual and abstract environment) that has a completely different frame of moral reference (not to mention its complete lack of any physical tangibility).
You can say thousands, millions of words. I'm not telling you what I look like. You believe whatever you want. Believe I look like the picture in my avatar, believe I don't.
What you think about me ultimately means nothing.
But you don't get to choose the overall moral affinity of the game. That choice is by the people. Just because you think it's Ok to steal, doesn't mean it is OK. You get to feel what you want, regardless of being wrong.
Am I choosing the overall moral affinity? No. I'm simply stating my opinion.
I feel stealing is wrong, in game and out. If you show me that you are one to steal by stealing, then I'll label you as a stealer (Go black and yellow!!!). Do something about it. |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20011
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 03:22:00 -
[263] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:I feel stealing is wrong. So why are you playing EVE, where it isn't?
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
286
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 03:25:00 -
[264] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:You can say thousands, millions of words. I'm not telling you what I look like. You believe whatever you want. Believe I look like the picture in my avatar, believe I don't.
What you think about me ultimately means nothing.
What I think of you means everything to me. Again, you are wrong.
But its not just what I think, it is what is demonstrable and shown to be true.
You are wrong, for the objective, discernible and provable reasons I have delineated.
Its not a matter of opinion, its a matter of fact.
Your stated view contradicts itself fatally when measured against your own choices. That makes you wrong. Utterly.
Beyond that my observations of you are that you are a dilettante, a hack, a hypocrite, dishonest in discourse and, to put it in colloquial parlance, a very poor quality troll. |

Divine Entervention
The Advent of Faith Against ALL Anomalies
120
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 03:27:00 -
[265] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:I feel stealing is wrong. So why are you playing EVE, where it isn't?
Because in this game I am given the choice to steal or not. It's not necessary to advance in EvE or accomplish self chosen objectives by stealing.
It's an option. You do what you want, I'll do what I want. But because I know we both have the same options, if you choose to do the ones that are morally wrong, then I'll label you as a person who performs morally wrong actions.
Your stance is that it's not morally wrong because the game takes place within a "illusory polygon", and I state that it is morally wrong because regardless of voodoo square, wizardry triangle, or enchanted cube, that since the action is being performed by people against people, it is subject to the standards of morality. |

Divine Entervention
The Advent of Faith Against ALL Anomalies
120
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 03:28:00 -
[266] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:You can say thousands, millions of words. I'm not telling you what I look like. You believe whatever you want. Believe I look like the picture in my avatar, believe I don't.
What you think about me ultimately means nothing.
What I think of you means everything to me. Again, you are wrong. But its not just what I think, it is what is demonstrable and shown to be true. You are wrong, for the objective, discernible and provable reasons I have delineated. Its not a matter of opinion, its a matter of fact. Your stated view contradicts itself fatally when measured against your own choices. That makes you wrong. Utterly. And not only that, but it proves the opposite of what you espoused, to actually be the truth. That by the same mechanism whereby you chose to act and represent yourself differently ingame than what you are outside of it, so does everyone else. Meaning you have no ground to stand on remaining, because you are no different in this regard than anyone else. Beyond that my observations of you are that you are a dilettante, a hack, a hypocrite, dishonest in discourse and, to put it in colloquial parlance, a very poor quality troll.
All you've proven is that regardless of knowing if I've accurately represented myself, that you'll claim I am not.
You've only proven to me that you do not care about the facts or reality.
Why should I take your opinion seriously when you're willing to claim I've misrepresented myself when you have no possible way of knowing if I have or not?
You're so egotistical. |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20011
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 03:34:00 -
[267] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:But because I know we both have the same options, if you choose to do the ones that are morally wrong, then I'll label you as a person who performs morally wrong actions. GǪbut since there are no morally wrong acts, that makes for a particularly pointless labelling attempt.
Quote:Your stance is that it's not morally wrong because the game takes place within a "illusory polygon" Nope. That's just something you've made up in your head.
Quote:I state that it is morally wrong [GǪ] since the action is being performed by people against people, it is subject to the standards of morality. GǪwhich are not the same as they are IRL since it's in a game where everything you is done at the expense of someone else and where most out-of-game systems of morality would be inherently broken at every point since they're meant to uphold a vastly different social order.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
288
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 03:38:00 -
[268] - Quote
I asked you. You not only refused to answer, but then proceeded to be offensive towards me about it.
In your refusal to answer, you gave me free card to deduce my own conclusions from your refusal.
My choice of interpretation and observation of your choice and action, is that you are refusing to answer because it is disadvantageous to your already ridiculous and precarious moral pontification.
I could also proceed to ask whether you have alts, and whether they are all painstakingly identical in appearence to each other and to your actual person, and whether their names are also your own as you have IRL.
But all of that would be academic, because as comes across in the sentence above, if you where truly representative of who you are offline, as you are online, your character itself would carry your own actual name and not just its actual graphical representation.
That alone, again, avails to show that your position is false and contradictory.
Just as I cannot surmise from your avatar, or your name, who you really are, neither can you of others. And because you have CHOSEN to not represent your true name and appearance, I can deduce that you are prepared to present yourself ingame as you are not, and make choices ingame as you would not out of game. Which quashes your arguments position completely, because that is exactly what everyone else is doing too, and with which there is nothing morally reprehensible.
If you want someone morally reprehensible, then look at the guy who hoped Tippia would die, and who felt she does not deserve to live. You didn't even bat an eyelid at that did you, Mr.MoraleFarce? |

Divine Entervention
The Advent of Faith Against ALL Anomalies
120
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 03:51:00 -
[269] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:I asked you. You not only refused to answer, but then proceeded to be offensive towards me about it.
In your refusal to answer, you gave me free card to deduce my own conclusions from your refusal.
My choice of interpretation and observation of your choice and action, is that you are refusing to answer because it is disadvantageous to your already ridiculous and precarious moral pontification.
I could also proceed to ask whether you have alts, and whether they are all painstakingly identical in appearence to each other and to your actual person, and whether their names are also your own as you have IRL.
But all of that would be academic, because as comes across in the sentence above, if you where truly representative of who you are offline, as you are online, your character itself would carry your own actual name and not just its actual graphical representation.
That alone, again, avails to show that your position is false and contradictory.
Just as I cannot surmise from your avatar, or your name, who you really are, neither can you of others. And because you have CHOSEN to not represent your true name and appearance, I can deduce that you are prepared to present yourself ingame as you are not, and make choices ingame as you would not out of game. Which quashes your arguments position completely, because that is exactly what everyone else is doing too, and with which there is nothing morally reprehensible.
If you want someone morally reprehensible, then look at the guy who hoped Tippia would die, and who felt she does not deserve to live. You didn't even bat an eyelid at that did you, Mr.MoraleFarce?
I feel that asking me about my personal appearance is disrespectful. I gave you an honest account of my feelings about you, a random stranger, asking me to tell you personal information about myself. I told you I felt is it was disrespectful for you to do so. That upset you. I'm sorry that you cannot handle honesty. But to me, it was wrong. Though I am sorry my being honest with you offended you, it is still the truth.
You then proceeded to explain how my feelings about your inquires are of no consequence to you.
Why should I care about your opinion when you can't handle the honesty of my answers? |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
290
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 03:59:00 -
[270] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:You then proceeded to explain how my feelings about your inquires are of no consequence to you.
Why should I care about your opinion when you can't handle the honesty of my answers?
I didn't ask about your feelings. If I wanted information about your feelings, I would ask for it. I did not. I do not.
Do you care about my feelings? Clearly you did not, else you would not have offended me by refusing to answer a simple, direct and neutral question. To add insult to existing offence, you then threw aspersions and speculation at me right after I had asked the question.
Since you did not care about my feelings when you refused to answer my query, why should I reciprocally care about yours?
Have you asked me how I feel? Have you asked me how my day has been? No. Do you want to discuss your feelings with me? Shall we have a great big feels party so that you can further evade from the original question?
You chose not to answer. Fine. I will draw my own conclusions from that. And they are that your avatar does not resemble your actual person. And furthermore that your actual name is not Divine Entervention. Both of which, or either of which, is sufficient to prove that you, by choice, do not portray or conduct yourself ingame as you do without it.
Furthermore, there is no evidence, anywhere, that you follow your own moral precepts either ingame or out of it. As far as I know, you don't even play the game, and pay account time just to spout your trolling nonsense here.
As I suggested earlier, kindly go start a blog, or even better, start creating content ingame inline with your ludicrous moral crusade and pontification, and put your so far empty words into action. Do anything else, just not this endless forum spamming. Mostly cs you aren't even any good at it. Stuff reads like an angsty emo teen from an ok family with an existential and moral crisis conflicting with his raging hormones and inability to get laid.
And you still have not batted an eyelid at what your crony said to Tippia. |

Divine Entervention
The Advent of Faith Against ALL Anomalies
120
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 04:07:00 -
[271] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:You then proceeded to explain how my feelings about your inquires are of no consequence to you.
Why should I care about your opinion when you can't handle the honesty of my answers? I didn't ask about your feelings. If I wanted information about your feelings, I would ask for it. I did not. I do not. Do you care about my feelings? Clearly you did not, else you would not have offended me by refusing to answer a simple, direct and neutral question. To add insult to existing offence, you then threw aspersions and speculation at me right after I had asked the question. Since you did not care about my feelings when you refused to answer my query, why should I reciprocally care about yours? Have you asked me how I feel? Have you asked me how my day has been? No. Do you want to discuss your feelings with me? Shall we have a great big feels party so that you can further evade from the original question? You chose not to answer. Fine. I will draw my own conclusions from that. And they are that your avatar does not resemble your actual person. And furthermore that your actual name is not Divine Entervention. Both of which, or either of which, is sufficient to prove that you, by choice, do not portray or conduct yourself ingame as you do without it. Furthermore, there is no evidence, anywhere, that you follow your own moral precepts either ingame or out of it. As far as I know, you don't even play the game, and pay account time just to spout your trolling nonsense here. As I suggested earlier, kindly go start a blog, or even better, start creating content ingame inline with your ludicrous moral crusade and pontification, and put your so far empty words into action. Do anything else, just not this endless forum spamming.
Even though you'll not show me that same respect, of course I care about your feelings. What type of person would I be if I didn't care about the feelings of people I interacted with? No please answer this question because you are that type of person.
I just feel that your request is improper. Which it is. You have no right to ask me what I truly look like, and I'm sorry you disagree but apparently it's a flaw in your character to think you're entitled to other's personal information.
Without the proper knowledge, you'll just come to a conclusion anyways. You prove that even without knowing, you'll speak as if you do. Without evidence. You have no way of knowing if I look like my avatar, yet you will ledger an entire argument based on the fact that I personally do not look like him.
Your argument centered around my appearance and it's correlation to my avatar is entirely baseless.
I do not have to start a blog. There are EVE forums for me to speak on. The OP asked a question and I answered it. You do not see evidence that I follow my own moral principles. Yet there isn't one person in game who can say I ever scammed or lied to them. So there's no evidence to the contrary either. |

Erica Dusette
Sky Fighters
3770
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 04:13:00 -
[272] - Quote
There are some amazing leaps and bounds being made in the field of psychology right here.
Imagine the possibilities - Psychiatrists who can diagnose complex social and personality disorders simply by getting their clients to post on the EVE forums. 
Where do I sign up for one of these palm post reading sessions? Is this a free service?
Please review my posts and give me a full run-down on where I stand mentally, emotionally and sexually. GÖí -á-á Major (Ret.) Caldari Naval Militia Gÿá -á Sky Fighters | Just an innocent explorer! pâä -áHerrbert: "womwomwowmwoaugharwajwowoooommm"
|

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
290
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 04:13:00 -
[273] - Quote
You make your choices. I make mine.
You refuse to answer a question. I conclude from that refusal what I will.
And in anycase, your actual name is most certainly not Divine Entervention, and that in and of itself is sufficient to demonstrate that you, by choice, do not present yourself or conduct yourself ingame as you do outside of it, and quashes the premise of your argument, which is that you can make accurate and absolute judgements on a person as they are offline based on observing their choices within the game.
Infact your refusal to answer, reinforces my position. I cannot be certain if you are who you present yourself as. In the same way you also cannot be certain that who you observe in game, is actually as they present themselves.
So either way, and in anycase, I win. |

Kyperion
General Washington's Irregulars
24
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 04:17:00 -
[274] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Aih-Li Tahn wrote:Tippia wrote:Because it makes it a better game. how? By providing some actual opposition to overcome rather than some trivially solvable, and ultimately unfulfilling, automated simulacrum of resistance. Divine Entervention wrote:Because they're bad people. CCP set up an environment where bad people can do bad things. Being unable to do bad things IRL because of consequence, they flock to this game as an outlet to be their true selves. Do you have anything to support this nonsensical dribble?
Anybody who makes a living in eve out of ganking miners or freighters does not want 'resistance' they just want a turn at being a terrorist.
People that go out and shoot targets that can shoot back or go after pimp fit missioners I can respect, if not like, those are at least people with balls. |

Divine Entervention
The Advent of Faith Against ALL Anomalies
121
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 04:18:00 -
[275] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:You make your choices. I make mine.
You refuse to answer a question. I conclude from that refusal what I will.
And in anycase, your actual name is most certainly not Divine Entervention, and that in and of itself is sufficient to demonstrate that you, by choice, do not present yourself or conduct yourself ingame as you do outside of it, and quashes the premise of your argument, which is that you can make accurate and absolute judgements on a person as they are offline based on observing their choices within the game.
Infact your refusal to answer, reinforces my position. I cannot be certain if you are who you have chosen to present yourself as. In the same way you also cannot be certain that who you observe in game, is actually as they chosen to present themselves as.
So either way, and in anycase, I win.
(Also, nobody has hair like that IRL, unless their name is Conan O'Brien)
You got me!
My real name isn't Divine Entervention!
Man you really nailed me there! hahaha great job man I'm really proud of you. |

March rabbit
Federal Defense Union
1336
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 04:29:00 -
[276] - Quote
Aih-Li Tahn wrote:Tippia wrote:Because it makes it a better game. how? it just ruins ppls days and make them vinditive and angry irl, and the gankers and bad guys get worse irl too
you compare Eve Online people with your RL surroundings and you see that your RL is cool then you want some thrill and log in into Eve Online: themepark of gankers, liars and scammers The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
|

Kyperion
General Washington's Irregulars
24
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 04:33:00 -
[277] - Quote
The real funny thing is, the Ganker forum warriors who talk about how boring it is to mine or 'pve'.... well, EvE is really just a graphical spreadsheet... a complex PnP in space with moving pictures so the ganker is truly engaging with the environment the exact same way the miner does.... pressing buttons on a Machine.
So tell me, when there are so many targets that would shoot back, and so many real world thrills to accomplish (like martial arts training, and fighting on a truly intimate and personal level) ... who truly is the risk adverse carebear?
|

Clio Fenatti
Tekniks
5
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 04:33:00 -
[278] - Quote
. |

Divine Entervention
The Advent of Faith Against ALL Anomalies
121
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 05:06:00 -
[279] - Quote
Well it was fun bros!
I had an enjoyable time fighting outnumbered and securing my place as king of the forum's hill.
If any of you are mad that I bested you, well you'll get over it. You can complain about it below if you wish. I'll not Entervene.
#thebest |

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
17080
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 05:09:00 -
[280] - Quote
Eve is full of scammers, bumpers, thieves, pirates and awoxers for exactly the same reasons it's full of miners, industrialists, traders and any other Eve activity you can think of, because the game allows it, and they're all viable and valid styles of play.
The real life morality argument doesn't apply in Eve because of the context of the game. It's a dystopian setting with few laws and is outside of civilised societal norms.
Context is everything when it comes to morality, for example shooting someone in the face in real life is generally considered to be a crime, and immoral, but if a soldier or police officer does it in the course, and thus context, of their duties, it is not.
If I'm playing Eve, a competitive game with few rules my real life morality is immaterial. I can certainly abide by it and remain with the societal norms of Eve, I can also throw it out of the window, and still remain within the societal norms of EvE.
My opponents & the content in the game happens to the 30-40k other people who are online while I am.
Different areas in life have different contexts, if I was working with someone else in RL to achieve something, I'm not going to stab them in the back and relieve them of their stuff, If I'm doing the same in a game the likelihood of me stabbing someone in the back (virtually) and stealing their stuff depends on the game I'm playing.
Will I murder you while playing minecraft? Nope not going to happen, unless on a PvP server where it is the norm, I won't trash your buildings either. Will I murder you while playing GTA online, Eve Online or DayZ? Yep, especially if you make it easy or profitable to do so, because all 3 games are PvP games. In the case of Eve, everything including highsec is a PvP server, where PvP is the norm, in all of its forms.
Different scenarios, different contexts, and thus different moral codes. The separation of reality and fantasy that some people seem to have problems with.
Psychotic Monk for CSM 9 |

Divine Entervention
The Advent of Faith Against ALL Anomalies
122
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 05:11:00 -
[281] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Eve is full of scammers, bumpers, thieves, pirates and awoxers for exactly the same reasons it's full of miners, industrialists, traders and any other Eve activity you can think of, because the game allows it, and they're all viable and valid styles of play.
The real life morality argument doesn't apply in Eve because of the context of the game. It's a dystopian setting with few laws and is outside of civilised societal norms.
Context is everything when it comes to morality, for example shooting someone in the face in real life is generally considered to be a crime, and immoral, but if a soldier or police officer does it in the course, and thus context, of their duties, it is not.
If I'm playing Eve, a competitive game with few rules my real life morality is immaterial. I can certainly abide by it and remain with the societal norms of Eve, I can also throw it out of the window, and still remain within the societal norms of EvE.
My opponents & the content in the game happens to the 30-40k other people who are online while I am.
Different areas in life have different contexts, if I was working with someone else in RL to achieve something, I'm not going to stab them in the back and relieve them of their stuff, If I'm doing the same in a game the likelihood of me stabbing someone in the back (virtually) and stealing their stuff depends on the game I'm playing.
Will I murder you while playing minecraft? Nope not going to happen, unless on a PvP server where it is the norm, I won't trash your buildings either. Will I murder you while playing GTA online, Eve Online or DayZ? Yep, especially if you make it easy or profitable to do so, because all 3 games are PvP games. In the case of Eve, everything including highsec is a PvP server, where PvP is the norm, in all of its forms.
Different scenarios, different contexts, and thus different morale codes. The separation of reality and fantasy that some people seem to have.
Nah, speaking of context, if you're a policeman and a robber pulls a gun out on you and you shoot him, that's perfectly acceptable of you do to so.
But if a cop walks up to a random guy on the street and shoots him, just because he's a cop and in some circumstances he's allowed to shoot people, doesn't mean that his shooting of the random innocent person was justified.
Exactly like if you're in Amarr faction warfare and you stumble upon a Minmatar miner. Due to the established relationship between your two factions, you're allowed to treat him how you wish. You don't have to kill him, but if you want to, go for it.
But if you're in an Amarr faction warfare corp and you stumble upon another Amarr nuetral miner in high sec and you decide to kill him to make him mad because making people mad is funny, well then you're the type of person who does things we're allowed to consider as "bad"
Homerun, out of the park
Now you can still kill whoever, whenever you want. But unless you have an actual reason other than "i wanted to", then you're a bad person and should feel bad. |

Kyperion
General Washington's Irregulars
25
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 05:14:00 -
[282] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Eve is full of scammers, bumpers, thieves, pirates and awoxers for exactly the same reasons it's full of miners, industrialists, traders and any other Eve activity you can think of, because the game allows it, and they're all viable and valid styles of play.
The real life morality argument doesn't apply in Eve because of the context of the game. It's a dystopian setting with few laws and is outside of civilised societal norms.
Context is everything when it comes to morality, for example shooting someone in the face in real life is generally considered to be a crime, and immoral, but if a soldier or police officer does it in the course, and thus context, of their duties, it is not.
If I'm playing Eve, a competitive game with few rules my real life morality is immaterial. I can certainly abide by it and remain with the societal norms of Eve, I can also throw it out of the window, and still remain within the societal norms of EvE.
My opponents & the content in the game happens to the 30-40k other people who are online while I am.
Different areas in life have different contexts, if I was working with someone else in RL to achieve something, I'm not going to stab them in the back and relieve them of their stuff, If I'm doing the same in a game the likelihood of me stabbing someone in the back (virtually) and stealing their stuff depends on the game I'm playing.
Will I murder you while playing minecraft? Nope not going to happen, unless on a PvP server where it is the norm, I won't trash your buildings either. Will I murder you while playing GTA online, Eve Online or DayZ? Yep, especially if you make it easy or profitable to do so, because all 3 games are PvP games. In the case of Eve, everything including highsec is a PvP server, where PvP is the norm, in all of its forms.
Different scenarios, different contexts, and thus different morale codes. The separation of reality and fantasy that some people seem to have.
The problem is not that it exists, its that so many of these 'Code' 'New Order' types are under the impression that they are PVP masters for shooting and scamming mostly new players... and thereby contribute to a toxic environment.
'PVP' should be about the thrill of outmanuevering, and out strategizing your opponent, not taking advantage of ignorance or silly game mechanics.
And, yes EVE allows it, but it does not make the game 'better.' |

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
17082
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 05:30:00 -
[283] - Quote
Kyperion wrote: The problem is not that it exists, its that so many of these 'Code' 'New Order' types are under the impression that they are PVP masters for shooting and scamming mostly new players... and thereby contribute to a toxic environment.
Did James and his merry band of Intrepid Investigators touch your barge inappropriately? Yes they like blowing their own trumpets, and no they don't contribute to a toxic environment. It's not like it's actually hard to avoid getting ganked by them.
Quote:'PVP' should be about the thrill of outmanuevering, and out strategizing your opponent, not taking advantage of ignorance or silly game mechanics. Outmanoeuvring and out-thinking opponents often relies on ignorance, apathy, and lack of knowledge
Quote:And, yes EVE allows it, but it does not make the game 'better.' That's your opinion, I disagree with it. Personally I'm of the opinion that all of the nefarious and devious goings on of other players adds to the atmosphere of Eve, without them it would be a boring game. Every story needs a bad guy, Eve has hordes of them, some of them are even heroes.
Psychotic Monk for CSM 9 |

Kyperion
General Washington's Irregulars
25
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 05:51:00 -
[284] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Kyperion wrote: The problem is not that it exists, its that so many of these 'Code' 'New Order' types are under the impression that they are PVP masters for shooting and scamming mostly new players... and thereby contribute to a toxic environment.
Did James and his merry band of intrepid permit inspectors touch your barge inappropriately? Yes they like blowing their own trumpets, and no they don't contribute to a toxic environment. It's not like it's actually hard to avoid getting ganked by them. Quote:'PVP' should be about the thrill of outmanuevering, and out strategizing your opponent, not taking advantage of ignorance or silly game mechanics. Outmanoeuvring and out-thinking opponents generally relies upon taking advantage of an opponents ignorance, apathy, and lack of knowledge Quote:And, yes EVE allows it, but it does not make the game 'better.' That's your opinion, I disagree with it. Personally I'm of the opinion that all of the nefarious and devious goings on of other players adds to the atmosphere of Eve, without them it would be a boring game. Every story needs a bad guy, Eve has hordes of them, some of them are even heroes.
James and his deluded band of yuppies have never touched me... and will never, because I fly ships that could shoot back, and they are only interested in shooting stuff incapable of shooting back (IE more risk averse than your typical missioner)
I just enjoy laughing at their delusions.
Bad guys are fine, we aren't talking about bad guys here, we are talking about people who only kill new players, and are in fact trying to invalidate or make impossible a form of playing the game that does not break the EULA in any way.... and is actually somewhat important to the overall player driven parts of the economy.
|

Ssabat Thraxx
Dominion Tenebrarum
46
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 05:55:00 -
[285] - Quote
Aih-Li Tahn wrote:masternerdguy wrote:Aih-Li Tahn wrote:masternerdguy wrote:Because this is just a game, and your in-game actions do not reflect your real world ones. but your the same person! Patrick Stewart is the same person as Jean-Luc Picard? Amanda Tapping is the same person as Samantha Carter? Tara Strong is the same person as Twilight Sparkle? Fascinating. eve is a movie with pro actors? sory, i thought it was a game ppl play to relax and meet ppl  sooooorry didnt realize lol
Well then you got the wrong impression of the game. This is where people come to, as the web ad from CCP says, "Be the Villain."
Kinda like playing Cops and Robbers. Didnt you ever play the robber?
|

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
17082
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 06:02:00 -
[286] - Quote
Kyperion wrote:Bad guys are fine, we aren't talking about bad guys here, we are talking about people who only kill new players, and are in fact trying to invalidate or make impossible a form of playing the game that does not break the EULA in any way.... and is actually somewhat important to the overall player driven parts of the economy.
Once again I disagree, while new players certainly get caught up in James's permit enforcement program I would say that a sizable majority of the victims definitely don't fall into the newbie category, unless of course you count someone flying a Mackinaw or a Battleship a newbie?
They're not trying to invalidate or make impossible a form of gameplay, they're trying to monetise it, and relieve the boredom of mining for others at the same time. If you want to mine when they're around you either move, fly a Procurer, or pay them the permit fee.
Psychotic Monk for CSM 9 |

Kyperion
General Washington's Irregulars
25
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 06:05:00 -
[287] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Kyperion wrote:Bad guys are fine, we aren't talking about bad guys here, we are talking about people who only kill new players, and are in fact trying to invalidate or make impossible a form of playing the game that does not break the EULA in any way.... and is actually somewhat important to the overall player driven parts of the economy.
Once again I disagree, while new players certainly get caught up in James's permit enforcement program I would say that a sizable majority of the victims definitely don't fall into the newbie category, unless of course you count someone flying a Mackinaw or a Battleship a newbie? They're not trying to invalidate or make impossible a form of gameplay, they're trying to monetise it, and relieve the boredom of mining for others at the same time. If you want to mine when they're around you either move, fly a Procurer, or pay them the permit fee.
You can fly Battleships in little over a month, and getting into barges has only become easier since I started EVE. So yes, their primary targets are newish players.... or players casual enough to be called newbies. And their scams certainly are targeted at people who know nothing about EVE. Like people willing to pay this 'permit' fee which permits nothing, and is a prime example of their debauchery. |

Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
435
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 06:19:00 -
[288] - Quote
Kyperion wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Kyperion wrote:Bad guys are fine, we aren't talking about bad guys here, we are talking about people who only kill new players, and are in fact trying to invalidate or make impossible a form of playing the game that does not break the EULA in any way.... and is actually somewhat important to the overall player driven parts of the economy.
Once again I disagree, while new players certainly get caught up in James's permit enforcement program I would say that a sizable majority of the victims definitely don't fall into the newbie category, unless of course you count someone flying a Mackinaw or a Battleship a newbie? They're not trying to invalidate or make impossible a form of gameplay, they're trying to monetise it, and relieve the boredom of mining for others at the same time. If you want to mine when they're around you either move, fly a Procurer, or pay them the permit fee. You can fly Battleships in little over a month, and getting into barges has only become easier since I started EVE. So yes, their primary targets are newish players.... or players casual enough to be called newbies. And their scams certainly are targeted at people who know nothing about EVE. Like people willing to pay this 'permit' fee which permits nothing, and is a prime example of their debauchery.
The bit I find confusing is why they bother. Yes James makes huge ISK and has a ludicrous amount invested in 'New Order" something over 200 Billion last time I looked. But I have also seen "new order" people bump someone for an hour to try and extort 10 million ISK. An hour for a measley 10 million ! That's like pocket money. |

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
17082
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 06:22:00 -
[289] - Quote
Kyperion wrote: You can fly Battleships in little over a month,
No. You can get into a Battleship in little over a month, actually being able to fly it and use it effectively takes a fair bit longer, it's also a pisspoor choice for a newbie.
Quote:and getting into barges has only become easier since I started EVE. So yes, their primary targets are newish players.... or players casual enough to be called newbies. I won't disagree on the relative ease of getting into a barge, many a newbie gets their start in a Retriever, although the Procurer is a better choice both cost and likelihood of explosion wise. People who fly T2 exhumers on the other hand generally aren't newbies.
As for casual players, I'm one of them, I live in highsec, I primarily indulge in the gathering and sale of resources. I'm also very aware that anybody else is free to try and make me explode, as such I take precautions to mitigate that risk like actually being at the keyboard in a tanked ship whenever I'm mining or hauling. I don't have a New Order mining permit, or any other kind of mining permit, yet I mine gank free.
Quote:And their scams certainly are targeted at people who know nothing about EVE. Which scams would they be? The mining permit does what it says on the tin, if you have a permit and you follow their code, they, the New Order, won't gank you.
What other scams are they running as an organisation? Personal scams are down to the individual, I'm not interested in those.
Bear in mind that a scam by definition relies on the avarice, stupidity or ignorance of the victim, or any combination of the three.
Psychotic Monk for CSM 9 |

Cannibal Kane
Cannibal Empire
3372
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 06:31:00 -
[290] - Quote
Kyperion wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Kyperion wrote: The problem is not that it exists, its that so many of these 'Code' 'New Order' types are under the impression that they are PVP masters for shooting and scamming mostly new players... and thereby contribute to a toxic environment.
Did James and his merry band of intrepid permit inspectors touch your barge inappropriately? Yes they like blowing their own trumpets, and no they don't contribute to a toxic environment. It's not like it's actually hard to avoid getting ganked by them. Quote:'PVP' should be about the thrill of outmanuevering, and out strategizing your opponent, not taking advantage of ignorance or silly game mechanics. Outmanoeuvring and out-thinking opponents generally relies upon taking advantage of an opponents ignorance, apathy, and lack of knowledge Quote:And, yes EVE allows it, but it does not make the game 'better.' That's your opinion, I disagree with it. Personally I'm of the opinion that all of the nefarious and devious goings on of other players adds to the atmosphere of Eve, without them it would be a boring game. Every story needs a bad guy, Eve has hordes of them, some of them are even heroes. James and his deluded band of yuppies have never touched me... and will never, because I fly ships that could shoot back, and they are only interested in shooting stuff incapable of shooting back (IE more risk averse than your typical missioner) I just enjoy laughing at their delusions. Bad guys are fine, we aren't talking about bad guys here, we are talking about people who only kill new players, and are in fact trying to invalidate or make impossible a form of playing the game that does not break the EULA in any way.... and is actually somewhat important to the overall player driven parts of the economy.
So if I wardec you today you will actually come and shoot me. I will spend the poultry 50mil to wardec you and we will see how much meaning your words actually hold. Come with anything less then a Battleship and I will consider you a joke. Somebody that talks to much on the forums with little to no action. "I saw him fight by the monument in Jita. He flowed in his Machariel like a Shinto spirit, 800MM shells sprouting in his passing. His hair flowed in the corona of his target's warp core breach. It was truly majestic. And while everyone stared in awe I stole the loot and ran off. Because I am like that." - NEONOVUS |

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
17082
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 06:38:00 -
[291] - Quote
^^ speaking of bad guys, who also happen to be heroes.
Psychotic Monk for CSM 9 |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20013
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 06:40:00 -
[292] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:I had an enjoyable time fighting outnumbered and securing my place as king of the forum's hill. So you admit that you're just trolling then. Goodie. Next time you try, attempt to have an argument based in reality and you might actually be able to not come out with a score of 0.
Quote:But if you're in an Amarr faction warfare corp and you stumble upon another Amarr nuetral miner in high sec and you decide to kill him to make him mad because making people mad is funny, well then you're the type of person who does things we're allowed to consider as "bad" Now, you do realise that this is already something that's not allowed and that you're only offering up meaningless platitudes at this point? What you're describing is something quite apart from playing the game as expected and in accordance with the rules GÇö an act you also want to attribute to being GÇ£badGÇ¥, somehow.
Kyperion wrote:Anybody who makes a living in eve out of ganking miners or freighters does not want 'resistance' they just want a turn at being a terrorist. GǪwhich would be no fun if it was just an automated simulacrum of resistance rather than an actual, unpredictable person at the other end who's actively trying to oppose themselves to what they're doing.
Quote:The problem is not that it exists, its that so many of these 'Code' 'New Order' types are under the impression that they are PVP masters for shooting and scamming mostly new players... and thereby contribute to a toxic environment.
'PVP' should be about the thrill of outmanuevering, and out strategizing your opponent, not taking advantage of ignorance or silly game mechanics. No, they GÇö like everyone else playing a professional badguy GÇö don't particularly care about new players because they have nothing on offer. They lack the funds or the entrenchment that makes them worth taking money from.
And knowing the game better than your opponent has been a part of PvP since roughly forever. Yes, there are other ways of beating them but just because you might not like that particular aspect doesn't mean it's an invalid one. Meanwhile, most of this is about outmanoeuvring and outsmarting the opponentGǪ although admittedly, the opponents have a nasty tendency to choose no manoeuvres and no thinking as their GǣmoveGǥ in the match. But that's their bad choice and they get to live with the consequences of it.
And yes, it does make EVE a better game because none of it is scripted or predictable or left to easily deconstructed and manipulated GÇ£AIGÇ¥. You have to actually play just a liiiittle bit better than your opponent(s) to win. In many cases, this equates to a minute amount of effort but it's still vastly more than if the game were designed differently.
Quote:Bad guys are fine, we aren't talking about bad guys here, we are talking about people who only kill new players, and are in fact trying to invalidate or make impossible a form of playing the game that does not break the EULA in any way.... and is actually somewhat important to the overall player driven parts of the economy. But those people don't matter because they get banned in short order since what you describe isn't allowed. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |

Jad-bal-jah
Nanashi no Geemu
1
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 09:55:00 -
[293] - Quote
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owzhYNcd4OM |

Kyperion
General Washington's Irregulars
29
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 10:00:00 -
[294] - Quote
To Cannibal Kane, I can already tell you are a waste of my time. War Dec me if you want, bring it. But I am not going out of my way to find your worthless carcass.
And I will be flying my beloved Ishtar, so screw off if you want a Battleship fight. |

Kyperion
General Washington's Irregulars
29
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 10:04:00 -
[295] - Quote
Tippia said: "But those people don't matter because they get banned in short order since what you describe isn't allowed."
....Hogwash, that is precisely what James and his filth do every day, they can only hope to kill and scam newbies.
|

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20016
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 10:28:00 -
[296] - Quote
Kyperion wrote:Tippia said: "But those people don't matter because they get banned in short order since what you describe isn't allowed."
....Hogwash, that is precisely what James and his filth do every day, they can only hope to kill and scam newbies. If they did, they wouldn't have as many GM and dev statements claimng that what they're doing is within the rules of the game, and the many petitions surely levelled against them at this time would have left none of them in the game.
Harassment and griefing, especially of new players, is probably among the quickest ways to bring an immediate halt to your subscription. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |

Kyperion
General Washington's Irregulars
29
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 10:31:00 -
[297] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Kyperion wrote:Tippia said: "But those people don't matter because they get banned in short order since what you describe isn't allowed."
....Hogwash, that is precisely what James and his filth do every day, they can only hope to kill and scam newbies. If they did, they wouldn't have as many GM and dev statements claimng that what they're doing is within the rules of the game, and the many petitions surely levelled against them at this time would have left none of them in the game. Harassment and griefing, especially of new players, is probably among the quickest ways to bring an immediate halt to your subscription.
Its a very thin technicality that keeps them afloat. And may not last in the long term. |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20016
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 10:36:00 -
[298] - Quote
Kyperion wrote:Its a very thin technicality that keeps them afloat. And may not last in the long term. You mean the technicality of not breaking any rules? No, I think that one will last them quite a while. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |

Kyperion
General Washington's Irregulars
29
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 10:40:00 -
[299] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Kyperion wrote:Its a very thin technicality that keeps them afloat. And may not last in the long term. You mean the technicality of not breaking any rules? No, I think that one will last them quite a while.
No, the mechanic by which they are scamming CCP into not banning them, which is most definitely breaking the spirit of the rules. And if they ever do make the impact they claim to want to make we'll see, but they will probably eventually realize that they are only depriving themselves of content by harassing newbies. And may grow some balls for shooting wars eventually.
|

Cannibal Kane
Cannibal Empire
3372
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 10:47:00 -
[300] - Quote
Kyperion wrote:To Cannibal Kane, I can already tell you are a waste of my time. War Dec me if you want, bring it. But I am not going out of my way to find your worthless carcass.
And I will be flying my beloved Ishtar, so screw off if you want a Battleship fight.
So be it.... You will then loose your beloved Ishtar if I find you in space. "I saw him fight by the monument in Jita. He flowed in his Machariel like a Shinto spirit, 800MM shells sprouting in his passing. His hair flowed in the corona of his target's warp core breach. It was truly majestic. And while everyone stared in awe I stole the loot and ran off. Because I am like that." - NEONOVUS |

Silvetica Dian
Manson Family Advent of Fate
814
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 10:48:00 -
[301] - Quote
Aih-Li Tahn wrote:I understand eve is free and no rules and blah blah blah. this isnt about ccp or how they manage stuff ... this is about comunity and how full of bad ppl it is! u cant even turn around without running into somone trying to take advantage of u with a lie or something! and its almost always not even for profit or money but just beign EVIL! i mean.... i once join a ""mining/industry"" corp and in 10 mins they try to gank my freighter with alot of battleships, why? and then i almost lose a orca with nothing expensive in hold or fit because of gank? i kno harasment is not alowed (even if alot of other stuff is) so is this even reportable? anyway thats not the point, its more..... whyy?? why do ppl go to self harm ways to hurt others? is this how pleyers act IRL too? is eve space australia? editing.... y all the hate ppl?  pls stop trolling, im just trying to understand
I tested the miner ganking thing myself. mined for 3 months in a 0.5 system near Jita until i got ganked. I have never had anything but help and support from corp members (maybe some light trolling). scammers are generally just a backround noise in JIta and easily ignorable. i have come to think that the people who keep being on the receiving end of this sort of stuff musst be doing something wrong to be getting such a different experience of this game. Maybe join a decent corp (needs research) that does thing you like and makes sure you like the same things before they even accept you. Also a corp with decent security rather than the first corp that comes along with a pretty name. Money at its root is a form of rationing. When the richest 85 people have as much wealth as the poorest 3.5 billion (50% of humanity) it is clear where the source of poverty is. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/20/trickle-down-economics-broken-promise-richest-85 |

Kyperion
General Washington's Irregulars
29
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 10:52:00 -
[302] - Quote
Cannibal Kane wrote:Kyperion wrote:To Cannibal Kane, I can already tell you are a waste of my time. War Dec me if you want, bring it. But I am not going out of my way to find your worthless carcass.
And I will be flying my beloved Ishtar, so screw off if you want a Battleship fight. So be it.... You will then loose your beloved Ishtar if I find you in space.
I'll be around, but not holding my breath.
|

Reiisha
Evolution
523
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 11:00:00 -
[303] - Quote
masternerdguy wrote:Because this is just a game, and your in-game actions do not reflect your real world ones.
That only goes so far...
There's more than enough people in the game which play solely to be jerkwads, who are basically the same person in RL. The "me-me-me" generation who thinks it's allright to ruin everyone else's game because "only their own fun is important", and when someone else does it to them it's suddenly not OK anymore. Hypocrites who cry and whine at every little change that is in their disadvantage as if it is going to kill the game but are allright with actually gamebreaking changes which *do* play out in their advantage.
Luckily there's more than enough honorable and nice people in this game to keep on playing it (even goons!). :)
If you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all... |

Cannibal Kane
Cannibal Empire
3372
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 11:00:00 -
[304] - Quote
Kyperion wrote:Cannibal Kane wrote:Kyperion wrote:To Cannibal Kane, I can already tell you are a waste of my time. War Dec me if you want, bring it. But I am not going out of my way to find your worthless carcass.
And I will be flying my beloved Ishtar, so screw off if you want a Battleship fight. So be it.... You will then loose your beloved Ishtar if I find you in space. I'll be around, but not holding my breath.
Your mouth is cashing chips your ass can't cash.
https://zkillboard.com/character/182711472/
"I saw him fight by the monument in Jita. He flowed in his Machariel like a Shinto spirit, 800MM shells sprouting in his passing. His hair flowed in the corona of his target's warp core breach. It was truly majestic. And while everyone stared in awe I stole the loot and ran off. Because I am like that." - NEONOVUS |

flakeys
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
2098
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 11:12:00 -
[305] - Quote
Aih-Li Tahn wrote:I understand eve is free and no rules and blah blah blah. this isnt about ccp or how they manage stuff ... this is about comunity and how full of bad ppl it is! u cant even turn around without running into somone trying to take advantage of u with a lie or something! and its almost always not even for profit or money but just beign EVIL! i mean.... i once join a ""mining/industry"" corp and in 10 mins they try to gank my freighter with alot of battleships, why? and then i almost lose a orca with nothing expensive in hold or fit because of gank? i kno harasment is not alowed (even if alot of other stuff is) so is this even reportable? anyway thats not the point, its more..... whyy?? why do ppl go to self harm ways to hurt others? is this how pleyers act IRL too? is eve space australia? editing.... y all the hate ppl?  pls stop trolling, im just trying to understand
Let's reverse that , why are so many people playing eve as a good guy when in this game you have the chance and freedom to play a bad guy ?
On a sidenote i'm a good guy and i'm often more puzzled to my own playstyle then that of a ganker/scammer .
We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
|

flakeys
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
2098
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 11:15:00 -
[306] - Quote
Cannibal Kane wrote:Kyperion wrote:Cannibal Kane wrote:Kyperion wrote:To Cannibal Kane, I can already tell you are a waste of my time. War Dec me if you want, bring it. But I am not going out of my way to find your worthless carcass.
And I will be flying my beloved Ishtar, so screw off if you want a Battleship fight. So be it.... You will then loose your beloved Ishtar if I find you in space. I'll be around, but not holding my breath. Your mouth is cashing chips your ass can't cash. https://zkillboard.com/character/182711472/
Normally i'd say this is gonna be interesting but unless kyperion stays docked during the wardec i unfortunatly allready know what the outcome of this will be .
We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
|

Kyperion
General Washington's Irregulars
29
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 11:27:00 -
[307] - Quote
Cannibal Kane wrote:Kyperion wrote:Cannibal Kane wrote:Kyperion wrote:To Cannibal Kane, I can already tell you are a waste of my time. War Dec me if you want, bring it. But I am not going out of my way to find your worthless carcass.
And I will be flying my beloved Ishtar, so screw off if you want a Battleship fight. So be it.... You will then loose your beloved Ishtar if I find you in space. I'll be around, but not holding my breath. Your mouth is cashing chips your ass can't cash. https://zkillboard.com/character/182711472/
yes because a player who has waffled between missioning, industry, mining, and even trading in an NPC corp for most of his EVE career cares about killmail epeens.
Yet another example of your level of stupidity |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
292
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 11:27:00 -
[308] - Quote
Storytime!
Yesterday I arrived in an icebelt with my whitless sideproject mining alt (whom I regret, and detest almost on a personal level, and have no idea why I do it to myself) to find a Covetor blasting away surrounded by three cans. Upon closer inspection, they where indeed each filled to the brim with ice.
This caused a number of reactions in me that I found interesting.
Primary among them, was my own bitterness from earlier in my own mining career in a Venture when I tried to compete with fleets of multiboxed Mackinaws with Orca support in Ore Anomalies (which is why I made the alt, as I wanted to make use of those and my OCD chafed at them popping up in my home constellation and me not being able to do anything about it). I went to somewhat elaborate extents to avoid what I perceived as risks, such as dumping each load at a safe bookmark, and the little trick of renaming my can next to me as a "Small Secure Container' (oh how xlever I am!). At first I would pick up my stash with a lumbering Mammoth (again, thinking I was clever to have researched how to use Giant Secure containers to Planck up my cargospace, only to realise the Miasmos exists. So I got one of them then. All of this cost me ISK, research time online, ingame time away from the belt, and use of my noggin (a painful enterprise).
Anyways, all this I had done, as a prudent precaution in my tiny Venture. And here this guy is, greedily blasting away surrounded by 12mil of ice in neat packages. That rubbed something the wrong way in me.
So I sent the guy a Chat request, and upon him acceppting it (to his credit almoost immediately), I asked why he was jet canning. He said something to the effect of "lol just trying it out emoticon emoticon". I hate emoticons. My ire was raised further.
Inlooked at the clock and made a decision. I informed him he had 10mins to clear out his cans, or "we" would take them. Ofc, I dont actually have any backup except my main, so I could conceivably have taken atleast two. He aquiesced to my ultimatum, and immediately started moving his cans. I felt gratifued by this, not because I had manipulated someones behavior, but because now I no longer had to stare at the offending cans as a testimony to his greed and total disregard for precautions (which I had myself gone to lengths to ensure in my own career).
All was well in the world, the belt was cleared with him also having time to mine some more after completing his task. Then I received his ingame mail. He had apparently checked my account age etc, and now started insulting me about bullying, how I should growup, how I probably have no friends and in no unclear terms what a bastard and asshat I am. And promptly blocked me.
All this because I gave him 10mins warning to clear his cans, whereas I could have simply started taking them.
So who is the bad guy in this situation? Who is the one with the attitude problem? I thinknthis reflects very well on what OP is saying in arather negative light, and her attitude, to me, is the same this miner had, and one I have to say I find extremely offensive, immature and disrespectful of other players both as ingame actors and real people behind the screen. A distinct lack of introspectiin and empathy on their part, and a selfish focus on only ones own motives and benefit, with little regard of that of others. |

Kyperion
General Washington's Irregulars
29
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 11:28:00 -
[309] - Quote
flakeys wrote:Cannibal Kane wrote:Kyperion wrote:Cannibal Kane wrote:Kyperion wrote:To Cannibal Kane, I can already tell you are a waste of my time. War Dec me if you want, bring it. But I am not going out of my way to find your worthless carcass.
And I will be flying my beloved Ishtar, so screw off if you want a Battleship fight. So be it.... You will then loose your beloved Ishtar if I find you in space. I'll be around, but not holding my breath. Your mouth is cashing chips your ass can't cash. https://zkillboard.com/character/182711472/ Normally i'd say this is gonna be interesting but unless kyperion stays docked during the wardec i unfortunatly allready know what the outcome of this will be .
The moron probably doesn't even know HOW to wardec because he's too busy eating himself |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20019
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 11:45:00 -
[310] - Quote
Kyperion wrote: No, the mechanic by which they are scamming CCP into not banning them,
Ok, so by the technicality that the reason they should be banned doesn't even exist. Yeah, no. That one will last them even longer. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |

Proletariat Tingtango
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
910
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 11:52:00 -
[311] - Quote
I've learned nothing from this thread, except some further confirmation about something I already knew- that Aussies are easily trolled about their country and nationality even though they are pretty much the sum total of all that is bad and undesirable about English-speaking cultures, and their national identity amounts to being racist alcoholic descendants of the scum and dregs of imperial Britain.
Australia actually is a wasteland. It was the only accurate and cognizant point in the entire OP. |

Kyperion
General Washington's Irregulars
29
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 11:58:00 -
[312] - Quote
Proletariat Tingtango wrote:I've learned nothing from this thread, except some further confirmation about something I already knew- that Aussies are easily trolled about their country and nationality even though they are pretty much the sum total of all that is bad and undesirable about English-speaking cultures, and their national identity amounts to being racist alcoholic descendants of the scum and dregs of imperial Britain.
Australia actually is a wasteland. It was the only accurate and cognizant point in the entire OP.
Leave it to the goons to make the smelliest turd of a post. |

Proletariat Tingtango
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
910
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 12:02:00 -
[313] - Quote
Kyperion wrote:Proletariat Tingtango wrote:I've learned nothing from this thread, except some further confirmation about something I already knew- that Aussies are easily trolled about their country and nationality even though they are pretty much the sum total of all that is bad and undesirable about English-speaking cultures, and their national identity amounts to being racist alcoholic descendants of the scum and dregs of imperial Britain.
Australia actually is a wasteland. It was the only accurate and cognizant point in the entire OP. Leave it to the goons to make the smelliest turd of a post.
The worst goon post is still better than the nicest pubbie post. |

Balshem Rozenzweig
Akademia Milicyjna The North is Coming
14
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 12:07:00 -
[314] - Quote
Sometimes when I'm bored I chase people around for a couple of systems. Sometimes it's fun, sometimes it's purely because there's totaly nothing else to do.
I'm considering doing some suicidal ganking cause I've never done this before.
I would be proud if I was able to come up with a grand scam that would get me insta rich.
And all of the above happens sometimes when I'm looking for something new. I'd never do the above in RL, as I consider good old conservative ethics to be the foundation of prosperity in western culture (I really do!). It's not because I'm repressing my thieving instincts or want to hurt someone else. It's because I can and I'd like to try at least a bit of anything I can do.
Some people just try to not treat this game too personal, because then it makes you rage and make an e-idiot of yourself sometimes. Taking stuff in game personally is bad.
When you see eve-villains just think if they are not people who are bored and look for a distraction in an environment they treat as (prepare for a shock) unreal. Not everyone is a hard core, sworn isk doubling scam spammer 4 life like a certain white haired person with a kinky name. Singature Radius 48 m |

Frank Millar
480
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 12:08:00 -
[315] - Quote
Kyperion wrote:The moron probably doesn't even know HOW to wardec because he's too busy eating himself You sure got a purdy mouth, boy.
It's probably better for you to biomass while there's still time.  |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20021
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 12:08:00 -
[316] - Quote
Proletariat Tingtango wrote:I've learned nothing from this thread, except some further confirmation about something I already knew- that Aussies are easily trolled about their country and nationality even though they are pretty much the sum total of all that is bad and undesirable about English-speaking cultures, and their national identity amounts to being racist alcoholic descendants of the scum and dregs of imperial Britain.
Australia actually is a wasteland. It was the only accurate and cognizant point in the entire OP. I've learned that people want me dead IRL for posting on a forum and that someone (who's admittedly a liar, a bigot, and a hypocrite) who likes to claim a position of moral superiority is in favour of my death and stands by the bile and hatered directed towards me. 
I think that neatly answers the OP's question, but unfortunately reverses his presumption about who's taking on what role as far as the harassment and evil behaviour is concerned. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
17085
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 12:33:00 -
[317] - Quote
Kyperion wrote:The moron probably doesn't even know HOW to wardec because he's too busy eating himself I would say that you're going to be on the receiving end of some interesting gameplay in the very near future. You should really check up on people before you call them morons, especially when the person in question specialises in death and mayhem.
Psychotic Monk for CSM 9 |

flakeys
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
2099
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 12:41:00 -
[318] - Quote
Kyperion wrote:
The moron probably doesn't even know HOW to wardec because he's too busy eating himself
I do hope that your trolling there ....
We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
|

Proletariat Tingtango
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
910
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 12:46:00 -
[319] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Proletariat Tingtango wrote:I've learned nothing from this thread, except some further confirmation about something I already knew- that Aussies are easily trolled about their country and nationality even though they are pretty much the sum total of all that is bad and undesirable about English-speaking cultures, and their national identity amounts to being racist alcoholic descendants of the scum and dregs of imperial Britain.
Australia actually is a wasteland. It was the only accurate and cognizant point in the entire OP. I've learned that people want me dead IRL for posting on a forum and that someone (who's admittedly a liar, a bigot, and a hypocrite) who likes to claim a position of moral superiority is in favour of my death and stands by the bile and hatered directed towards me.  I think that neatly answers the OP's question, but unfortunately reverses his presumption about who's taking on what role as far as the harassment and evil behaviour is concerned.
People are weird, and the internet is weird. Eve attracts especially weird people. Nothing you do in a video game is worthy of death threats and general creepiness. But making fun of aussies is pretty fair game no matter what. |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20022
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 12:49:00 -
[320] - Quote
Proletariat Tingtango wrote:People are weird, and the internet is weird. Eve attracts especially weird people. Nothing you do in a video game is worthy of death threats and general creepiness. But making fun of aussies is pretty fair game no matter what. Oh, I don't know. Isn't it a bit cruel to make fun of people who already suffer from having to stand on their heads all day long?  GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
17085
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 13:36:00 -
[321] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Proletariat Tingtango wrote:People are weird, and the internet is weird. Eve attracts especially weird people. Nothing you do in a video game is worthy of death threats and general creepiness. But making fun of aussies is pretty fair game no matter what. Oh, I don't know. Isn't it a bit cruel to make fun of people who already suffer from having to stand on their heads all day long?  You forgot that 99.99% of the native wildlife is very people unfriendly, in short if it's a native and has more or less than two legs it's probably trying to kill you.
Psychotic Monk for CSM 9 |

Kyperion
General Washington's Irregulars
30
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 13:40:00 -
[322] - Quote
Frank Millar wrote:Kyperion wrote:The moron probably doesn't even know HOW to wardec because he's too busy eating himself You sure got a purdy mouth, boy. It's probably better for you to biomass while there's still time. 
I'm so scared of the killmail epeen patrol
|

Erotica 1
Krypteia Operations CODE.
4284
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 13:59:00 -
[323] - Quote
OP may as well go to a whorehouse and ask "why are there so many whores here?"
That being said, I have noticed quite a number of people bring up the New Order and me, which is funny, because we're the good guys. A permit is easily worth 100m a month, or 1b a year (as I have lobbied to change it to) but our Supreme Protector chooses to keep the mining permit affordable for everyone, at the ridiculously low price of only 10 million isk and good for an entire year.
As for me, I took an old scam and made a legitimate game out of it. Yet trolls and people who can't read continue to say negative things about me.
Smart people know we are the good guys. And we will continue to work hard for years to come to save highsec. See Bio for isk doubling rules. If you didn't read bio, chances are you funded those who did. |

Kyperion
General Washington's Irregulars
31
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 14:07:00 -
[324] - Quote
Erotica 1 wrote:OP may as well go to a whorehouse and ask "why are there so many whores here?"
That being said, I have noticed quite a number of people bring up the New Order and me, which is funny, because we're the good guys. A permit is easily worth 100m a month, or 1b a year (as I have lobbied to change it to) but our Supreme Protector chooses to keep the mining permit affordable for everyone, at the ridiculously low price of only 10 million isk and good for an entire year.
As for me, I took an old scam and made a legitimate game out of it. Yet trolls and people who can't read continue to say negative things about me.
Smart people know we are the good guys. And we will continue to work hard for years to come to save highsec.
I think you've done 1 too many erotic things to your supreme Lover, err 'protector.'..
And you know damn well that you do nothing to deserve their isk, and that the whole thing is a scam
|

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
296
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 14:08:00 -
[325] - Quote
Erotica 1 wrote:As for me, I took an old scam and made a legitimate game out of it. Yet trolls and people who can't read continue to say negative things about me.
You know, not to derail or anything, but I have a bit of legal training and even I couldn't make sense of your "rules". I notice the term substitutions in it, but it just doesn't make sense from a grammatical syntax point of view. No offense, but its like its written by someone who cannot really handle the English language or a 12yr old.
To illustrate what I mean, it was like reading the famously nonsensical technical instruction translations by some hapless Chinese guy into English. Or a very tenuous google-translation.
Its not that people don't read the rules. It is that they are actually unintelligible as far as the English language is concerned. |

Alxephon
Deadly Gumdrop Death Squad xXPlease Pandemic Citizens Reloaded Alliance.Xx
0
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 14:20:00 -
[326] - Quote
Kyperion wrote:Erotica 1 wrote:OP may as well go to a whorehouse and ask "why are there so many whores here?"
That being said, I have noticed quite a number of people bring up the New Order and me, which is funny, because we're the good guys. A permit is easily worth 100m a month, or 1b a year (as I have lobbied to change it to) but our Supreme Protector chooses to keep the mining permit affordable for everyone, at the ridiculously low price of only 10 million isk and good for an entire year.
As for me, I took an old scam and made a legitimate game out of it. Yet trolls and people who can't read continue to say negative things about me.
Smart people know we are the good guys. And we will continue to work hard for years to come to save highsec. I think you've done 1 too many erotic things to your supreme Lover, err 'protector.'.. And you know damn well that you do nothing to deserve their isk, and that the whole thing is a scam I think what you meant to say is that they don't deserve their own ISK. The saying about the fool and his money rings true, especially in EVE. |

SKINE DMZ
Stay Frosty.
334
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 14:23:00 -
[327] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:.. You are so delusional wow  I disagree |

Ssabat Thraxx
Dominion Tenebrarum
46
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 14:26:00 -
[328] - Quote
I think we're about there, now.
ibtl 
|

Proletariat Tingtango
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
911
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 14:34:00 -
[329] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote: You know, not to derail or anything, but I have a bit of legal training and even I couldn't make sense of your "rules". I notice the term substitutions in it, but it just doesn't make sense from a grammatical syntax point of view. No offense, but its like its written by someone who cannot really handle the English language or a 12yr old.
Erotica1 can be hard to understand at times and is a bit crazy, but the dude is really, really good at scamming and that sort of thing. I don't know how it works but if you can actually parse what he says he might have something insightful to say. Not to give him too much credit because he does and says stupid things a lot, but it's not good to dismiss him out of hand. |

flakeys
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
2099
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 14:36:00 -
[330] - Quote
Ssabat Thraxx wrote:I think we're about there, now. ibtl 
Nah give it a few more pages ... i'd say 3 more 
We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
|

Nicolai Serkanner
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
80
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 14:37:00 -
[331] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Tippia wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:A game driven by the choices of the individuals within. So you're saying that you're a bad person since you made the same choice, then. Does bluffing in poker make you a bad person and a compulsive liar? No, because I do not lie to, or steal from people. The OP listed a clear situation where she was lied to with the intention of ruining her gameplay. I make the choice to not treat people like that. Am I bad person for something? Of course. We're all imperfect in one way or another. Mine just happens not to be my interaction with people. And since I make the choice to treat others fairly and with respect so long as they demonstrate their objective isn't to try and hurt me, that makes me a good person. I do not play poker. Any reference you choose to make about poker I will remind you with the fact that it is a game I do not play.
You are an arrogant ass hole, which makes you a bad person. |

Digits Kho
Imperial Navy Lobsters U N K N O W N
51
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 14:38:00 -
[332] - Quote
Aih-Li Tahn wrote:Why is eve being full of scamers gankers bumpers and liars? Cuz thats all you choose to see |

Helia Tranquilis
State War Academy Caldari State
13
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 14:55:00 -
[333] - Quote
Kyperion wrote:Tippia wrote:Kyperion wrote:Its a very thin technicality that keeps them afloat. And may not last in the long term. You mean the technicality of not breaking any rules? No, I think that one will last them quite a while. No, the mechanic by which they are scamming CCP into not banning them, which is most definitely breaking the spirit of the rules. And if they ever do make the impact they claim to want to make we'll see, but they will probably eventually realize that they are only depriving themselves of content by harassing newbies. And may grow some balls for shooting wars eventually. You speak of technicalities when you should be talking about the massive gray area that is left in the interpretation of EULA regarding harassment and griefing. The gray area and ingenuity of griefers to utilize existing game mechanics is why, from my viewpoint, GM's can't be arsed to do anything. I have yet to hear of a case where an actual line has been drawn.
Prime example of this is to go 1 jump from virtually any rookie career agent system and you'll see a flashy yellow "pro pvper" farming newbies who don't know better. There have been topics discussing this emergent form of game play not far back.
|

Agondray
Avenger Mercenaries VOID Intergalactic Forces
73
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 15:08:00 -
[334] - Quote
Because the people only feel Important in the game as most can't contribute to the real world and boost their need of an ego by being the bad guys like ccp advertises " join eve online: be the bad guy."
"Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mine" -Dr. Smith |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
297
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 15:10:00 -
[335] - Quote
Agondray wrote:Because the people only feel Important in the game as most can't contribute to the real world and boost their need of an ego by being the bad guys like ccp advertises " join eve online: be the bad guy."
Thats like saying if they where bad guys IRL, they wouldn't need to boost their ego by being a bad guy in EVE.
Makes no sense. Potato. |

RomeStar
Empire Investments Logistics
386
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 15:29:00 -
[336] - Quote
Aih-Li Tahn wrote:I understand eve is free and no rules and blah blah blah. this isnt about ccp or how they manage stuff ... this is about comunity and how full of bad ppl it is! u cant even turn around without running into somone trying to take advantage of u with a lie or something! and its almost always not even for profit or money but just beign EVIL! i mean.... i once join a ""mining/industry"" corp and in 10 mins they try to gank my freighter with alot of battleships, why? and then i almost lose a orca with nothing expensive in hold or fit because of gank? i kno harasment is not alowed (even if alot of other stuff is) so is this even reportable? anyway thats not the point, its more..... whyy?? why do ppl go to self harm ways to hurt others? is this how pleyers act IRL too? is eve space australia? editing.... y all the hate ppl?  pls stop trolling, im just trying to understand
I am alittle unsure here....are those tears or just a fog of tears with a potential downpour?
Signatured removed, CCP Phantom |

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
17087
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 15:32:00 -
[337] - Quote
RomeStar wrote:I am alittle unsure here....are those tears or just a fog of tears with a potential downpour?
Either way, it's going to get damp.
Psychotic Monk for CSM 9 |

Aih-Li Tahn
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
14
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 16:21:00 -
[338] - Quote
done shitting up the thread now? just an unproductive circlejerk that didnt answer the OP question and just make eve look like its full of asses. congrats u must be proud, trolls |

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
17088
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 16:26:00 -
[339] - Quote
Aih-Li Tahn wrote:done shitting up the thread now? just an unproductive circlejerk that didnt answer the OP question and just make eve look like its full of asses. congrats  u must be proud, trolls Actually the OPs question has been answered quite succinctly, repeatedly. Most of the shitting up of the thread has been from people who think that Eve should be something that it blatantly is not.
Psychotic Monk for CSM 9 |

RomeStar
Empire Investments Logistics
387
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 17:00:00 -
[340] - Quote
Aih-Li Tahn wrote:done shitting up the thread now? just an unproductive circlejerk that didnt answer the OP question and just make eve look like its full of asses. congrats  u must be proud, trolls
Be careful or I will poke you in your good eye then you wont be able to see ****.
Signatured removed, CCP Phantom |

Domanique Altares
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
2547
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 17:02:00 -
[341] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote: All this because I gave him 10mins warning to clear his cans, whereas I could have simply started taking them.
So who is the bad guy in this situation? Who is the one with the attitude problem?
This was a good story.
It would have ended better had he been taught a lesson in manners by being blown out of the stars. Rifterlings pirate corporation is now recruitng members for lowsec PvP operations. Newbie friendly, free T1 frigate and dessy hangar, solo tutoring and PvP classes for new members. Join our in game channel 'weflyrifters' and speak to a recruiter today. |

Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
5051
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 17:14:00 -
[342] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Aih-Li Tahn wrote:done shitting up the thread now? just an unproductive circlejerk that didnt answer the OP question and just make eve look like its full of asses. congrats  u must be proud, trolls Actually the OPs question has been answered quite succinctly, repeatedly. Most of the shitting up of the thread has been from people who think that Eve should be something that it blatantly is not.
Not surprisingly, it's the same character flaws that make people like that crap up a thread that makes the game unenjoyable for the very same people. They never seem to quite figure out that the problem is them, not the game (or the people simply telling them the truth on the forums). |

Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
615
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 17:30:00 -
[343] - Quote
Personally I feel the recurring theme of people landing in EvE and then railing against it's mechanics is one of a failure in education.
If CCP had a stark Tutorial #1 (like so), combined with an 'acceptance', there would be much less knock-on sperging later on...
We have all seen this in real life, tell a client up front about 'paper-cuts' and they are seen as paper cuts. Hide them in the short term for them to discover on their own (like crushing TiDi..ahem), and they are perceived as grievous arterial wounds.
F Would you like to know more? |

embrel
BamBam Inc.
132
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 17:44:00 -
[344] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Aih-Li Tahn wrote:I understand eve is free and no rules and blah blah blah. this isnt about ccp or how they manage stuff ... this is about comunity and how full of bad ppl it is! u cant even turn around without running into somone trying to take advantage of u with a lie or something! and its almost always not even for profit or money but just beign EVIL! i mean.... i once join a ""mining/industry"" corp and in 10 mins they try to gank my freighter with alot of battleships, why? and then i almost lose a orca with nothing expensive in hold or fit because of gank? i kno harasment is not alowed (even if alot of other stuff is) so is this even reportable? anyway thats not the point, its more..... whyy?? why do ppl go to self harm ways to hurt others? is this how pleyers act IRL too? is eve space australia? Because they're bad people. CCP set up an environment where bad people can do bad things. Being unable to do bad things IRL because of consequence, they flock to this game as an outlet to be their true selves. But that's what makes people like you and I that much better at life and for the game. Because even in a cesspool of filth, we remain clean. They're illogical and irrational. There's no other explanation. Trying to understand is a waste of your time.
There's no such thing as bad or good people. |

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
17090
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 17:52:00 -
[345] - Quote
embrel wrote:There's no such thing as bad or good people. Good luck with arguing that with him, he's of the opinion that people who make you explode in Eve are just as likely to murder you for loose change in real life, because what you do within the context of a game is a direct reflection of what you're like in real life. 
Psychotic Monk for CSM 9 |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20037
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 18:04:00 -
[346] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:embrel wrote:There's no such thing as bad or good people. Good luck with arguing that with him, he's of the opinion that people who make you explode in Eve are just as likely to murder you for loose change in real life, because what you do within the context of a game is a direct reflection of what you're like in real life.  To be fair, he has explained that he assumes everyone will do that, regardless of what games they play and how, until they've somehow proven otherwise. That really tells you all you need to knowGǪ  GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |

Benny Ohu
Beneath the Ashes Margin of Silence
2674
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 18:09:00 -
[347] - Quote
embrel wrote:Divine Entervention wrote: There's no such thing as bad or good people. bigots are real :D |

Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
5051
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 18:50:00 -
[348] - Quote
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:Personally I feel the recurring theme of people landing in EvE and then railing against it's mechanics is one of a failure in education. If CCP had a stark Tutorial #1 (like so), combined with an 'acceptance', there would be much less knock-on sperging later on... We have all seen this in real life, tell a client up front about 'paper-cuts' and they are seen as paper cuts. Hide them in the short term for them to discover on their own (like crushing TiDi..ahem), and they are perceived as grievous arterial wounds. F
You'd think that would work, but the last decade and a half of my own IRL experiences lead me to believe that it's just not true.
In game as in IRL some things are self evident, rules are posted and easily accessible and any amount of common sense would keep people out of trouble or away from situations where they'd be victimized. Yet time and time and time again I and people like me deal with easily avoidable situations involving people who didn't spend a single second of their time thinking about their situation or the consequences of their choices.
In other words, CCP could introduce mechanaics that would warn people EVERY single time they undocked that they are undocking into a situation where loss can occur, they can make the tuttorial as close to the real EVE experience as possible ect ect and people will STILL complain about the nature of the game and it's mechanics and the in-game policies of CCP (a company made of vikings, by vikings, making a game FOR VIKINGS)
|

Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
5051
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 18:52:00 -
[349] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:embrel wrote:Divine Entervention wrote: There's no such thing as bad or good people. bigots are real :D
Bigots are the lightweight example of bad people. Truly bad people do exist and i've dealt with some. None of them had "I play EVE" tattoo'd on them anywhere I could see. |

Aphrodite Jonnes
New Eden Exploration Division
0
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 19:15:00 -
[350] - Quote
I have proof The New Order idiots don't even know who has a permit.
http://tinypic.com/r/34gsdwo/8 |

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
17091
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 19:22:00 -
[351] - Quote
I know for a fact that there is a spreadsheet that lists the names of all permit holders, and who sold them the permit.
Whether or not the spreadsheet is available to all New Order permit inspectors and still actively maintained would be a question that only CODE. members can answer.
Psychotic Monk for CSM 9 |

Aphrodite Jonnes
New Eden Exploration Division
0
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 19:43:00 -
[352] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:I know for a fact that there is/was a spreadsheet that lists the names of all permit holders, and who sold them the permit. Whether or not the spreadsheet is available to all New Order permit inspectors and still actively maintained would be a question that only CODE. members can answer.
That's the New Order's chat channel. That is their Permit Guru in chat saying he has NO CLUE who has a permit. Nuff said. |

BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
Panhandle Industries
288
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 19:48:00 -
[353] - Quote
Aphrodite Jonnes wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:I know for a fact that there is/was a spreadsheet that lists the names of all permit holders, and who sold them the permit. Whether or not the spreadsheet is available to all New Order permit inspectors and still actively maintained would be a question that only CODE. members can answer. That's the New Order's chat channel. That is their Permit Guru in chat saying he has NO CLUE who has a permit. Nuff said. Cross post from minerbumging forums:
Quote:Sigh. As has been explained previously, all lists of permit holders are confidential and only a very few agents have access. This is to prevent retaliation against permit holders.
Who do you mean by permit guru? New player resources: http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Main_Page - General information http://www.evealtruist.com/p/know-your-enemy.html - Learn to PvP http://belligerentundesirables.com/ - Safaris, Awoxes, Ganking and Griefing-á |

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
17091
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 19:58:00 -
[354] - Quote
Aphrodite Jonnes wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:I know for a fact that there is/was a spreadsheet that lists the names of all permit holders, and who sold them the permit. Whether or not the spreadsheet is available to all New Order permit inspectors and still actively maintained would be a question that only CODE. members can answer. That's the New Order's chat channel. That is their Permit Guru in chat saying he has NO CLUE who has a permit. Nuff said. I'm unfamiliar with Jared Lennox, it's been a while since I was an active participant in the NO chat channel. It may be that he's unaware of the existence of the records, has no access to the records for security purposes or that they are no longer maintained, either way permit holders are required to place a note in their bio listing the date of purchase and the agent who sold them it.
Any queries you have about the New Order's records would probably be best aimed at James 315, he'll be able to tell you whether or not the New Order still keeps a record of payments made for permits, if it's available to all agents or if the records are still actively updated.
Psychotic Monk for CSM 9 |

BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
Panhandle Industries
288
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 20:02:00 -
[355] - Quote
The name of every permit holder is supposed to be sent to James 315 or Black Skull. There is a reason for this. New player resources: http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Main_Page - General information http://www.evealtruist.com/p/know-your-enemy.html - Learn to PvP http://belligerentundesirables.com/ - Safaris, Awoxes, Ganking and Griefing-á |

Aphrodite Jonnes
New Eden Exploration Division
0
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 20:22:00 -
[356] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Aphrodite Jonnes wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:I know for a fact that there is/was a spreadsheet that lists the names of all permit holders, and who sold them the permit. Whether or not the spreadsheet is available to all New Order permit inspectors and still actively maintained would be a question that only CODE. members can answer. That's the New Order's chat channel. That is their Permit Guru in chat saying he has NO CLUE who has a permit. Nuff said. I'm unfamiliar with Jared Lennox, it's been a while since I was an active participant in the NO chat channel. It may be that he's unaware of the existence of the records, has no access to the records for security purposes or that they are no longer maintained, either way permit holders are required to place a note in their bio listing the date of purchase and the agent who sold them it. Any queries you have about the New Order's records would probably be best aimed at James 315, he'll be able to tell you whether or not the New Order still keeps a record of payments made for permits, if it's available to all agents and if the records are still actively updated.
That is EXACTLY my point. They are no longer being maintained, so they have no way of knowing who actually has a permit or not. |

Aphrodite Jonnes
New Eden Exploration Division
0
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 20:29:00 -
[357] - Quote
Quote:Sigh. As has been explained previously, all lists of permit holders are confidential and only a very few agents have access. This is to prevent retaliation against permit holders.
[/quote]
That's my post on their forums that you are taking the reply from. I have called them out, They are full of ****. That is just an excuse. You refuse to believe what we already know, and that NO is actually quite unorganized, and has no clue about who has a permit and who doesn't. They failed at maintaining their own records. They are incompetent at best. If EVERY member had a copy of the record, there would be no need for fear of retaliation against permit data holders, as everyone would have the information, so that is logic fail.
|

Divine Entervention
The Advent of Faith Against ALL Anomalies
148
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 20:32:00 -
[358] - Quote
Yea look at all the dudes who felt it was necessary to insult specific people simply because they possess a different opinion.
I guess that's what you do when someone proves himself to be better than you, you get mad and insult him. |

BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
Panhandle Industries
289
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 20:37:00 -
[359] - Quote
Aphrodite Jonnes wrote:Quote:Sigh. As has been explained previously, all lists of permit holders are confidential and only a very few agents have access. This is to prevent retaliation against permit holders. That's my post on their forums that you are taking the reply from. I have called them out, They are full of ****. That is just an excuse. You refuse to believe what we already know, and that NO is actually quite unorganized, and has no clue about who has a permit and who doesn't. They failed at maintaining their own records. They are incompetent at best. If EVERY member had a copy of the record, there would be no need for fear of retaliation against permit data holders, as everyone would have the information, so that is logic fail. The issue isn't retaliation against agents or anyone who has access to that list. The issue is retaliation against the people on the list itself. It is incredibly easy to become a new order agent which is part of the point of the movement's design. We want people all over high sec to take matters into their own hands and represent NO. Making such a list accessible to anywhere close to the majority of agents would lead to insanely easy targeting of permit holders. Having the permit in the bio is dangerous enough, but handing our enemies a list of targets would be particularly stupid. New player resources: http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Main_Page - General information http://www.evealtruist.com/p/know-your-enemy.html - Learn to PvP http://belligerentundesirables.com/ - Safaris, Awoxes, Ganking and Griefing-á |

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
17091
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 20:46:00 -
[360] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Yea look at all the dudes who felt it was necessary to insult specific people simply because they possess a different opinion.
Disappointing You mean by calling them psychopaths and real life undesirable types that would do harm to random passers-by?
Psychotic Monk for CSM 9 |

Divine Entervention
The Advent of Faith Against ALL Anomalies
149
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 20:50:00 -
[361] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:Yea look at all the dudes who felt it was necessary to insult specific people simply because they possess a different opinion.
Disappointing You mean by calling them psychopaths and real life undesirable types that would do harm to random passers-by?
Yea, people who take joy at what they perceive to be other's mental ailments are sadists.
If you blow up my ship, and I get mad and rage at you, and then you come to the conclusion that I'm screwed up in the head, and then you continue to prod me and take pleasure from inflicting misery due to my weakness, then you're a ****** up person.
If you perceive someone to be abnormal, and then you act on that notion with the intention to derive enjoyment at their irrational suffering, then you are a bad person for taking advantage of someone else's "issues". |

Aphrodite Jonnes
New Eden Exploration Division
0
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 20:53:00 -
[362] - Quote
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote:Aphrodite Jonnes wrote:Quote:Sigh. As has been explained previously, all lists of permit holders are confidential and only a very few agents have access. This is to prevent retaliation against permit holders. That's my post on their forums that you are taking the reply from. I have called them out, They are full of ****. That is just an excuse. You refuse to believe what we already know, and that NO is actually quite unorganized, and has no clue about who has a permit and who doesn't. They failed at maintaining their own records. They are incompetent at best. If EVERY member had a copy of the record, there would be no need for fear of retaliation against permit data holders, as everyone would have the information, so that is logic fail. The issue isn't retaliation against agents or anyone who has access to that list. The issue is retaliation against the people on the list itself. It is incredibly easy to become a new order agent which is part of the point of the movement's design. We want people all over high sec to take matters into their own hands and represent NO. Making such a list accessible to anywhere close to the majority of agents would lead to insanely easy targeting of permit holders. Having the permit in the bio is dangerous enough, but handing our enemies a list of targets would be particularly stupid.
What? It's a NO requirement to have that you are a permit holder in your BIO. So what you are saying makes no sense whatsoever. I wasn't talking about giving permit holders the list, just all NO agents. My original point is, the list no longer exists, or is being maintained, so there is no way for agents to know who is or isn't a permit holder. it's all a scam. We all know NO has no intentions of "saving highsec." That's the ruse to shakedown people for ISK. I'm not necessarily against NO, I'm just saying they are full of **** and a bunch of hypocrites. I sent Shinhwa an email about the "of many" mining dudes. He told me they are too big to go after. We all know NO only preys on the weak, because they themselves are weak. |

Lady Areola Fappington
New Order Logistics CODE.
1205
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 20:53:00 -
[363] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:Yea look at all the dudes who felt it was necessary to insult specific people simply because they possess a different opinion.
Disappointing You mean by calling them psychopaths and real life undesirable types that would do harm to random passers-by? Yea, people who take joy at what they perceive to be other's mental ailments are sadists.
I'm just here to blow up spaceships and utilize unconventional warfare in order to further my own ISK generation goals. Making sweeping declarations about someone's mental state due to game-behaviour is sillyness. The risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP). |
|

ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1002

|
Posted - 2014.03.14 21:10:00 -
[364] - Quote
Thread temp locked to do some cleaning. ISD Ezwal Commander Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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